Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, December 02, 2017

Obamacare has led to higher costs and fewer health insurance options for millions of Americans. How has it impacted you? Share your story with the President.

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"I was promised that I could keep my plan and my doctor by the previous administration, and then told to just shut up and take it by his fawning minions when it turned out to be a bald-faced lie. Thank you for making the economy great again so I could get a job that provided benefits, and escape the healthcare nightmare that Obama & friends shoved down our throats. Thank you, Mr. President."

-Average Guy

#1 | Posted by cookfish at 2017-12-02 10:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Maybe you can answer this question.

What economic indicator (besides the stock market, which would have been derided as a bubble under a Dem POTS) has improved significantly under Trump?

Please provide, at the very least, numbers or stats from late 2016 vs now or, a5 best, links with short descriptions to make your point.

Even better would be actual graphs of data so that trends prior to Trump (you know, context...) can be assessed.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 11:36 PM | Reply

At least 13 million people are about to lose their health care with this new Bill.

What a loaded question, btw, from TrumpHouse.gov.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-02 11:40 PM | Reply

I "retired" in Jun. Not yet 65 so looked at ObamaCare. For my wife and I, $1,100(+) a month with a $12k or $13k deductible.

We are going without insurance, while we relocate (MI to SC) and look at our options after the first of the year.

There are a couple of those plans where doctors get together and for $50 a month you can get basic medical.

#4 | Posted by sawdust at 2017-12-03 08:35 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"We are going without insurance"

Good luck.

One bad turn, and you're gonna wish you had that 13K deductible. The night of my heart attack, I went through my deductible, co-pay, and out-of-pocket in about 5 minutes. Without insurance, I'd still owe six figures.

#5 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-03 08:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

'I was born a poor black child...' No, wait, wrong story.

I'll tell you a story. As a contractor, before ACA, I was paying $6-700/month for premium health insurance. After ACA, I was paying $1500/month. For those keeping score at home, that equals about $10/hour. And it was basic insurance with a $10,000 dollar deductible, IOW, like not having insurance at all.

Then, I see people who contribute nothing to the economy or society who get insurance that covers everything at no cost. BS! My problem with that is that it went from one extreme to the other.

Obamacare had a lot to do with my decision to semi-retire. I'm not working my ass off so people who are worthless can sponge off of me. I agree with other moderates, Obamacare is okay, if it was fixed, but it will not be fixed because you cannot run a socialistic enterprise inside a capitalist matrix.

#6 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-03 09:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

We are going without insurance,

#4 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

yes, i reached a similar conclusion, but you will have to pay a penalty at tax time. That is another thing that needs to go away.

#7 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-03 09:26 AM | Reply

"That is another thing that needs to go away."

Gone, as will be the subsidies for 13 million who will cease to have insurance.

But what's 13 million uninsured, when that'll pay for a repeal of the Estate Tax?

#8 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-03 09:43 AM | Reply

"Obamacare is okay, if it was fixed, but it will not be fixed because you cannot run a socialistic enterprise inside a capitalist matrix."

Nonsense. Germany is doing it; so is France and a handful of other single-payer countries. They all cover a larger percentage of their populace, for a lower percentage of GDP, with generally better overall measurable results.

The central problem, of course, is the health care model is the polar opposite of the business model. What business tries to educate you so you don't need them, gets you out of the store as quickly as possible, and aims for the goal of you never patronizing them again?

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-03 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

# 7 > " because you cannot run a socialistic enterprise inside a capitalist matrix."

Amen. Can't have your cake and eat it too. One of them has got to give.

I used to have great insurance 10 years ago thru my company. In the last 8 years or so my premiums have tripled and my deductables and out of pocket have sky-rocketed. The insurance is almost worthless.

ACA was passed on March 23, 2010. And don't get me wrong I'm not looking to the Republicans to help us. I don't trust them at all.

But, it's been almost 8 years since Obamacare passed. Where is the pay-off!?! I'm sorry, but I'm just not feeling the love.

#10 | Posted by shane at 2017-12-03 01:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

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Germany is doing it; so is France and a handful of other single-payer countries. They all cover a larger percentage of their populace, for a lower percentage of GDP, with generally better overall measurable results.

The central problem, of course, is the health care model is the polar opposite of the business model. What business tries to educate you so you don't need them, gets you out of the store as quickly as possible, and aims for the goal of you never patronizing them again?

#9 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Well said.

#11 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2017-12-03 01:29 PM | Reply

"you cannot run a socialistic enterprise inside a capitalist matrix."

"The central problem, of course, is the health care model is the polar opposite of the business model."

Aren't these 2 statements essentially the same?

And that is, the need to eliminate the profit motive in Health Care.

#12 | Posted by shane at 2017-12-03 01:39 PM | Reply

And that is, the need to eliminate the profit motive in Health Care.

Posted by shane at 2017-12-03 01:39 PM | Reply

Smoooooochies I LOVE You!!!!!!!!! I've been saying that for YEARS now. AMEN Hunny.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-12-03 01:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I've always had this idea about a Medical Corps (think Marine Corps). We'll call it the American Medical Corps (AMC),if you may, patterned after the US military Model.

They could establish Med school Academies and recruit students from colleges, strictly on merit, to attend these Med school academies for free with the one obligation of serving in the " MedCorps" for X amount of years afterwards.Then you could choose to stay "re-up" or go into civilian/free market. Also establish clinics/hospitals and research centers all over the country (like Bases Forts,etc). The pay sacle would be at the highest GS rating,extra pay for different types of duties, coulped with outstanding benefits and a excellent retirement if you decided to put in 20 years.

It's just an idea I had.

#14 | Posted by shane at 2017-12-03 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Aren't these 2 statements essentially the same?"

Not really.

There are socialist aspects of capitalist societies. Think roads, police, schools, libraries, parks, etc. Health insurance belongs in that group.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-03 03:19 PM | Reply

My story: ObamaCare made it possible for my family to get the best insurance plan we were offered in 15 years, at a rate that we could afford.

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-03 05:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Can you expound on that experience ,Rcade.

I get Blue Cross/Blue Shield from my Company. I pay almost $60 per week deducted from my check. My deductibles & out of pocket can be in the thousands sometimes. It used pay maybe $75 to $100 or so and that would be it, no 3rd party bills. I don't know who to blame but I'm not happy

#17 | Posted by shane at 2017-12-03 05:33 PM | Reply

I'm self-employed. From 2000-2009 our insurance kept costing more and covering less for a family of 5. It was getting to the point that I thought I'd have to leave self employment and find an employer with good coverage.

ObamaCare gave me the freedom to continue my career. The insurance isn't cheap, but it's less than we used to pay and so much better on what it covers.

If Trump kills ObamaCare this site is probably going to shut down. You can't be self employed in this country without good insurance with no coverage gaps.

#18 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-03 06:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If Trump kills ObamaCare this site is probably going to shut down.

How much time in a given week do you put into this site?

I always figured it was front loaded with work to create it but then it was largely self-running with occasional maintenance or upgrades.

#19 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-03 08:22 PM | Reply

when that'll pay for a repeal of the Estate Tax?

LOL, every state that has repealed its Estate Tax has seen an uptick in its business investments, it was estimated by the Tax Policy Center (when the Dems were talking about this very thing): "When modeled at the federal level, the repeal of the estate tax increases long-run economic growth by 0.8 percent, leads to an extra 159,000 full-time equivalent jobs, and after-tax incomes would grow by 1 percent because of the change.

The estate tax acts as a disincentive for business investment, both in terms of business equipment and land. A business owner planning for the estate tax may avoid purchasing new business equipment or opt for smaller, less costly equipment. It can also discourage families from acquiring more land. This effect can be particularly burdensome for those with limited liquid capital, such as farmers and small business owners."

Now that the GOP wants to eliminate the tax, the TPC and the Dems are claiming that they were wrong and it is the worst thing ever.

Funny how that works.

#20 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-12-03 09:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#20 | Posted by Rightocenter

LOL!

That's a load of crap.

#21 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-12-03 10:25 PM | Reply

How much time in a given week do you put into this site?

20-25 hours.

#22 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-03 10:37 PM | Reply

Now that the GOP wants to eliminate the tax, the TPC and the Dems are claiming that they were wrong and it is the worst thing ever.

What planet are you living on? The Democrats have opposed estate tax repeal for decades.

The super-rich sit on their tax cut money. They don't pour it back into the economy.

The working class spends their tax cut money. They need it.

No tax plan that puts all the benefits to the rich and all the costs to the middle class and poor boosts the economy. It's trickle down nonsense.

#23 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-03 10:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We pay to much for to little here.

Obamacare was a step in the right direction but it wasn't enough.

Repeal without implementing universal coverage is a nightmare.

#24 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-04 07:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Please provide, at the very least, numbers or stats from late 2016 vs now or, a5 best, links with short descriptions to make your point.

OH, you talking about the 8 YEARS Obama had or the 10 MONTHS Trump has had? Can you give the guy a little time please?

#25 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-04 07:40 AM | Reply

"Can you give the guy a little time please?"

You're joking, right?

Obama has been consistently blamed for the job losses caused by Dubya. And Trump has claimed all gains since his election.

You want to cherry-pick, on both sides.

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-04 08:33 AM | Reply

Nonsense. Germany is doing it; so is France and a handful of other single-payer countries.

#9 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

all of which have a more socialistic matrix and they have not sold out their country to capitalist corporations.

Don't gloss over this point.

You think I am against Obamacare. I am not. I think it is the responsibility of everyone to take care of everyone. And that also means that some are not 'more taken care of' than others (and yes, that includes the rich and the poor). It is just a very small nexus point of a much larger problem. This problem will eventually destroy america.

#27 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-04 10:39 AM | Reply

#18 | POSTED BY RCADE

I don't understand how your self-employed insurance was so high and mine was not (prior to obamacare). I didn't get my insurance through an employer. Like i said, top of the line Blue cross was $6-700/month (and i thought that was high).

Aside from that, I hope you don't have to go back to corporate america. I don't say that because of your prospect of having to shut down this site, but because corporate america sucks much worse than it ever has. I would recommend you do whatever it takes to avoid it. You are not good corporation material, you are too used to certain freedoms; freedom of intellect, opinion, clock. You are also used to seeing the benefit or failure of your own actions. Plus you will probably also have a boss who is not fit to carry your piss bucket.

#28 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-04 10:51 AM | Reply

If Trump kills ObamaCare this site is probably going to shut down.

BS. You make enough in advertising to start drudge2.com. How else are you paying for all those exotic beers?

But just in case, Can I get the domain? I've been thinking about changing the drapes around here..

#29 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-04 11:37 AM | Reply

I think it is the responsibility of everyone to take care of everyone.

It's stupid thinking like this that's going to destroy the idea that was America..

#30 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-04 11:39 AM | Reply

"#20 | Posted by Rightocenter
LOL!
That's a load of crap."

Bears repeating. What a load. Reduction in income tax for corporations absolutely does discourage the purchase of new equipment, elimination of the estate tax will affect only the very, very rich.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-04 11:41 AM | Reply

"all of which have a more socialistic matrix "

In what ways other than single payer?

#32 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-04 11:53 AM | Reply

"It's stupid thinking like this that's going to destroy the idea that was America.." - #30 | Posted by pfc. boaz at 2017-12-04 11:39 AM

It is that "stupid" thinking that keeps your benefit checks flowing, pfc. boaz.

#33 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-04 12:05 PM | Reply

It's stupid thinking like this that's going to destroy the idea that was America..

America has never been the I-got-mine-to-hell-with-you country you wish it was. It lifted your circumstances with a military career, helps seniors with Social Security and Medicare, poor children with health insurance and school lunches and many other programs. It helped me with student loans.

If you want to know the real America, consider that Social Security has been the most popular government program for decades. That was true when you were born and remains just as true today.

What destroys America is greed -- rich people who only care about themselves and working-class people who get help up the ladder and then want to knock that ladder down for the others who follow.

You should be grateful for what this country has provided to help you succeed.

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-04 12:40 PM | Reply

I've been living an insurance nightmare before and after Obamacare. I'm self-employed, family of four and a wife who thankfully is a cancer survivor. I believe we are up to over 2,000/month and 12,000 deductible. It's very important to her to see the same doctors that have gotten her through the rough years, so keeping our doctors is a big deal. One of hers is no longer on our insurance and I just paid $20,000 out of pocket for an operation.

Whichever party can solve this dilemma for me has my vote. And trust me; neither has since this started 15 years ago, so saying one has falls on deaf ears.

#35 | Posted by JimDuncan at 2017-12-04 01:04 PM | Reply

America has never been the I-got-mine-to-hell-with-you country you wish it was.

Of course not. America is very generous, through charities. While I will agree that the sheer volume of Americans has necessitated the creation of SS, I don't believe in constant dependence of the poor on some entitlement programs. We as a culture are going to have to deal with how to stop stupid people from having kids they cannot support, then having to put those kids on the public dole. It just seems to me the Democrat/progressives don't do enough to stem the START of the problem, which is people having kids out of wedlock or single parents who cannot support themselves much less kids.

At some point, there are more poor than there are people to pay for them. That is a fact. The only fix, is when people decide they don't want to be poor anymore and take responsibility for themselves.

#36 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-04 01:06 PM | Reply

"The only fix, is when people decide they don't want to be poor anymore and take responsibility for themselves."

Is that what you did, by joining the Army and having taxpayers take responsibility for paying your salary?

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-04 01:10 PM | Reply

We shut down one entire hospital (250 beds) and started reducing the number of non-revenue generating beds on our other facilities.
We now have a whole bunch of orthopedic beds and very few medical and Telemetry beds. (Ortho beds usually make money, med/tele beds don't).
We also reduced portions of our community outreach programs.
ED beds reduced.
Stricter adherence to admission criteria.
To name a few.

#38 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2017-12-04 01:33 PM | Reply

OH, you talking about the 8 YEARS Obama had or the 10 MONTHS Trump has had? Can you give the guy a little time please?

#25 | Posted by boaz

I specifically stated late 2016 in order to give a Obama era value compared to the current.

And it was/is a rhetorical question.

Unemployment is not even 1% less because it was already near/approaching full employment (4.8ish %). Trump has done little to nothing in regards to employment.

Consumer confidence was on an upward trend (with some variability) throughout Obama's eight years and was back to pre-recession levels by 2017.
(according to here
www.advisorperspectives.com)

In other words, Trump and the GOP, despite all their caterwauling during Obama's tenure about how poor the economy actually was and how much Obama was lying to us, inherited highly favorable economic conditions. Now, they suddenly want to take credit for the economy they whined about endlessly despite having done nothing to earn said bragging rights and, I'm speculating here, having just taken a serious step towards scuttling them with their tax "reform".

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-04 01:44 PM | Reply

Is that what you did, by joining the Army and having taxpayers take responsibility for paying your salary?

I was hired by our country to do a job. At least I'm providing value. What are you sacrificing/doing for the country again?

#40 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-04 02:00 PM | Reply

"At least I'm providing value."

You provide about as much value as a homeless person who goes to the ER for their health care needs.

Someone's making a buck off you, no doubt. You are a valuable conduit for taxpayer money to flow to defense contractors. I think it's about two million dollars per soldier.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-04 02:27 PM | Reply

"What are you sacrificing/doing for the country again?"

Not wasting its money like you are?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-04 02:29 PM | Reply

My stepmother had an Obamacare plan when she was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. My parents weren't poor, and had a few different option. She was offered the possibility of treatment, but it wasn't covered by Obama care. She would have needed to pay out of pocket, and it was going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars. She chose to forego any treatment, and died a few months after being diagnosed.

When deciding whether or not she was going to get treatment, she decided it wasn't worth spending the money. If she wasn't willing to spend it on herself, why on earth would you reasonably believe she would have been willing to spend it on someone else.

I don't blame Obama...he had supporters who expected him to produce and ideological end-state that's probably achievable. He did his best with what he had available.

I think that single payer is coming to this country...but it's going to be a disappointment to most USans. Like flying on a military transport after you've flown first class your whole life.

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-04 03:22 PM | Reply

Sorry to hear about your stepmother, Madbomber. If I had stage four I think I would go the same route. My wife has had stage one twice. I'm willing to spend all I have for that. And I want her to keep the team of doctors she has.

My father-in-law just passed from cancer and I was surprised the procedures they did up to the last days. Maybe I'm cold hearted, but tens of thousands were spent when he was well beyond saving. Call them death panels or whatever, but that money could have gone to help others. I'd say the same if it were me.

#44 | Posted by JimDuncan at 2017-12-04 04:26 PM | Reply

"My father-in-law just passed from cancer and I was surprised the procedures they did up to the last days."

I think that was part of the decision calculus as well...is it better to pull out a few more months confined to a hospital bed, or get it over with more quickly. But there comes a point where the return on investment simply doesn't calculate. How can you justify $100K treatments that aren't going to do more than buy a few pitiful months? My parents had quite a bit of money, but the suggested procedures would have taken most of it.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-04 06:08 PM | Reply

"I was hired by our country to do a job." - #40 | Posted by pfc. boaz at 2017-12-04 02:00 PM

The reason you love Trump so much is that he's as stupid as you are.

The only reason why your benefits as a veteran are secure is because of that "stupid" thinking you condemn ("it is the responsibility of everyone to take care of everyone." - #27 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-04 10:39 AM").

Otherwise, your service would come with a "sincere" thank you, a gold watch, and a "--- you, you're on your own now."

You're just as stupid as Trump.

#46 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-04 08:20 PM | Reply

"At least I'm providing value." - #40 | Posted by pfc. boaz at 2017-12-04 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag: Now Comes the Part Where We Throw Our Heads Back and Laugh!

#47 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-04 08:22 PM | Reply

"How can you justify $100K treatments that aren't going to do more than buy a few pitiful months?"

Because life is precious and spending a few more hours days months or even years with your family is not pitiful. It is priceless.

My brother (an ardent republican) was furious that he was forced buy real insurance under Obamacare. Then his wife got sick with cancer. His son had a nervous breakdown. His daughter became an alcoholic. In the end that episode of his life, including end of life hospice care and mental health care and therapy for his children, would have cost him well over $100,000.

With Obamacare his costs were basically his deductibles of about $2000.

He was able to keep his home and help his children recover their lives enough to return to school and work to become productive taxpayers.

#48 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-05 01:19 AM | Reply

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