Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, December 02, 2017

The Senate passed its tax reform bill in the early hour of Saturday morning, following a day full of Republican leaders making changes to bring enough members on board and a long night full of heated rhetoric on both sides of the aisle. ... Congressional negotiators continued to make changes to the bill -- including handwriting alterations on to the document -- up until just hours before the final vote, with Democrats sharply criticizing Republicans for not giving members enough time to read the sweeping legislation that would overhaul the US tax system. American Enterprise Institute fellow Marc Thiessen writes, "Americans see Republicans spending $1.5 trillion to fund a massive corporate tax rate reduction from 35 to 20 percent. The multinationals are taken care of, as is the donor class. The middle class? Not so much. They are losing many of their cherished tax deductions in exchange for a doubling of the standard deduction, an increase in the child tax credit and a tiny reduction in their tax rates."

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With all of America distracted by nonsense sexual harassment cases and Russiagate.

The Senate passed their gift to the 1%.

I personally am revolted by today's Republican Party. I loathe them. They're literally responsible for the continued destruction of America's middle class and with this one field swoop they have murdered us.

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---- republicans. ---- conservative. ---- Paul Ryan. ---- Mitch McConnell. ---- McCain. ---- Trump.

They have all ------ us over so Donnie can get rid of the estate tax.

---- all our DR conservatives and republicans and libertarians. [...]

#1 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 04:31 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 8

The bill had unintelligible, hand-written, nonsensical, ---- scribbled in the margins and they voted yes anyway.

#2 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 04:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pissed-off senators show off their scribble-covered copies of tonight's GOP tax bill

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 04:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The legislation, which would cut the top corporate tax rate to 20 percent and lower taxes for most individuals, narrowly passed in a vote of 51-49. Tennessee Republican Bob Corker was the only Republican to vote against the legislation, joining all 48 Democrats in opposing the sweeping overhaul of the nation's tax laws.

The bill is projected to add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over 10 years. The Joint Committee on Taxation reported on Thursday that the economic stimulus from the bill would only make up $400 billion of that.

"This bill will end up reducing the deficit, because there will be economic growth," Ohio Sen. Rob Portman contended. "I feel very good about the fiscal situation."

www.npr.org


The GOP live is a ------- world where reality, facts, and math are completely arbitrary.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 04:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said on the Senate floor that this day would be remembered as one of the "great robberies in U.S. history."

#5 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-12-02 05:09 AM | Reply

"I don't understand how the corporate tax rate is being lowered to 20% ‘to stimulate job growth' when they continue to automate and outsource all the jobs. Especially when this tax cut will cause a trillion dollar deficit over the next ten years. Wtf?"

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 06:02 AM | Reply

CLOWN @#1

That's what the voting booth is for.

#7 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-12-02 06:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's what the voting booth is for.

I wasn't offered the opportunity to vote on the tax plan.

And before you drag this into a blame game over who voted for who.

The election has been over for a year.

All the finger pointing and name calling won't fix anything.

The GOP robbed America blind with the help of brain dead Republican voters.

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 06:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Yes, GOP voters, you are brain dead. Hard to imagine a group of people more detached from their own interests in life. Start wearing red. It will help hide your bleeding.

#10 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 06:24 AM | Reply

As one reaction to this I am no longer in favor of Al Franken resigning. Not with monsters like Moore being elevated to power. Let the Senate censure Al if they need to, but he keeps his seat. Americans need fighters right now, especially these GOP baboons who have lost the concept of fighting for themselves.

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 06:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's sweeping all right. Swept most of the American middle class right into the gutter.

Ultimately, this won't stand. The GOP has hit people in the pocket books and bleeding cuts will be opened on the flesh of the electorate

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 06:44 AM | Reply

The GOP needs a tax cut to afford a printer. Think of the Toner costs!

#15 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2017-12-02 07:17 AM | Reply

If this lasts more than four hours I need to call a doctor.

#16 | Posted by visitor_ at 2017-12-02 08:20 AM | Reply

This is a terrible bill that will hammer the middle class and seniors.

For seven years Republicans on this site have complained about how ObamaCare was passed, even though it had hearings and the text of the bill was out for a month before the final vote.

This bill was put out yesterday and has stuff marked out and added with a pen! Republicans are so broken and corrupt that even with full control of government, they couldn't go through ordinary procedures to draft and pass a major bill.

There are more giveaways to the rich and donor class in this bill than any piece of major legislation in U.S. history. The media will be covering the worst of it for weeks.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 08:32 AM | Reply

I keep trying to tell you libs. To elitists, you have no more rights than cattle. They'll use you for all you are worth.

The bigger government gets, the poorer you're going to get. Government is a predator. And you are prey.

#18 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 08:35 AM | Reply

You enable the worst of the elite by focusing your criticism entirely on the Democrats. Everyone can see that Republicans are completely bought and paid for. Democrats have members like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who fight for the working class and poor.

#19 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 08:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

For seven years Republicans on this site have complained about how ObamaCare was passed, even though it had hearings and the text of the bill was out for a month before the final vote.
#17 | POSTED BY RCADE

Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests.

The two parties work together to divide and conquer.

You know the parable: two wolves and a sheep trying to decide what to have for dinner.

#20 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 08:42 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Republicans lost the ability to claim "both parties are the same" when they elected Donald Trump. Give it a rest, Ray.

#21 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-02 08:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

You enable the worst of the elite by focusing your criticism entirely on the Democrats. Everyone can see that Republicans are completely bought and paid for. Democrats have members like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren who fight for the working class and poor.
#19 | POSTED BY RCADE

Socialism by any name empowers the elites at the expense of the working class.

Sanders and Warren are con artists. They would not have made it to Congress if it were otherwise.

#22 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 08:49 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The middle class needs to fund the fake wars and failing wars and tomfoolery started in their name.

Suckers! They got you good this time. Right in the bum.

#23 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-12-02 08:49 AM | Reply

Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests.

ObamaCare gave my family the best insurance at the best price we had in 15 years. It didn't increase our taxes.

You must be out of touch with real people and what insurance has been like.

#24 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 08:49 AM | Reply

USA... bestest "democracy" in the world....

#25 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-12-02 08:50 AM | Reply

#24 | Posted by rcade
Yea and I was forced to pay for it.
You cant give something you don't own.

#26 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-12-02 08:51 AM | Reply

And wait till they start something with Iran or Norkistan......

Not "if"... it's "when".

#27 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-12-02 08:51 AM | Reply

Republicans lost the ability to claim "both parties are the same" when they elected Donald Trump. Give it a rest, Ray.
#21 | POSTED BY JOE

Poor old me. I'm a broken record. I can't help myself.

#28 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 08:52 AM | Reply

Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests.
ObamaCare gave my family the best insurance at the best price we had in 15 years. It didn't increase our taxes.
You must be out of touch with real people and what insurance has been like.
#24 | POSTED BY RCADE

Your gain was someone elses loss. Obamacare forced nonpayers into the pool. SCOTUS correctly ruled it a tax increase.

#29 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 08:56 AM | Reply

You must be out of touch with real people and what insurance has been like.
#24 | POSTED BY RCADE

Glad you brought that up. Health care costs have been rising faster than economic growth ever since Medicare was passed into law.

It's another epic government fail.

#30 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 09:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It took a matter of hours for Ray to bring up Obamacare. Are you a paid shill, or are you genuinely this off-topic?

#31 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-02 09:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Mantra of big Government.

#32 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-12-02 09:02 AM | Reply

#2 Clown, I watched Maddow say that as well last night so I could predict what your talking point would be. Right on cue! When I watched her say that all I could think of was Obama Care. And then she said they didn't even read it before they passed it! Didn't Pelosi say we weren't supposed to read a bill until after it passes???

#33 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-12-02 09:03 AM | Reply

Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests.

The two parties work together to divide and conquer.

#20 | Posted by Ray

I know it is pointless to ask but why don't you try to explain how instead of posting that nonsensical drivel.

#34 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-12-02 09:04 AM | Reply

#34 | Posted by GalaxiePete
see #32

#35 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-12-02 09:05 AM | Reply

Yea and I was forced to pay for it.

You didn't pay jack ---- for my insurance, -------. I paid through my own taxes and my premiums as a hard-working middle class American. ---- off.

#36 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 09:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

It took a matter of hours for Ray to bring up Obamacare. Are you a paid shill, or are you genuinely this off-topic?
#31 | POSTED BY JOE

You and other libs said there is a difference between the two parties. I say they are in collusion.

It is very much on topic. Whichever party is in power, the interests of government power are always above the working class.

#37 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 09:08 AM | Reply

That's cute Ray, but this is a thread about Republican tax cuts for the rich, not your general lack of faith in the two-party system. I get what you're saying, it just doesn't seem all that relevant; it's a line of conmentary that could be posted in every thread (and unfortunately is, by you).

#39 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-02 09:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

#36
WOW, the Motherator sure dont sensor big daddy!

#40 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2017-12-02 09:17 AM | Reply

Aaaaand just like that its gone.
My bad.

#41 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2017-12-02 09:18 AM | Reply

I know it is pointless to ask but why don't you try to explain how instead of posting that nonsensical drivel.
#34 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE

If you pay attention, government expands at the expense of the private economy no matter which party is in power.

At the same time, the middle class is shrinking. Costs are forever rising faster than wages.

This has to be so, because government cannot support itself without taking from the market economy. The more government takes, the less capital there is for economic growth. The Federal Reserve creates an illusion of growth by expanding the money supply. Rising prices are a symptom of debt, not real economic growth.

#42 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 09:21 AM | Reply

#36 | Posted by rcade
Really? My rates didn't go up?
I'm still waiting for my $2500.00 per year for six years.

#43 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-12-02 09:21 AM | Reply

Aaaaand just like that its gone.

The profanity robot doesn't run automatically. I look it over to stop it from doing dumb things like "Vice President ---- Cheney."

#44 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 09:29 AM | Reply

Federalist: Your party uses government to give yourself every tax break imaginable at the expense of working people. Look at this Senate bill. It's one big giveaway for the donor class and corporations.

#45 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 09:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A government of the donor, for the donor, by the donor.

#46 | Posted by Alaskan_Guy at 2017-12-02 09:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They repealed the individual mandate too.

#47 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 09:35 AM | Reply

#2 Clown, I watched Maddow say that as well last night so I could predict what your talking point would be.

#33 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017

How much money are you going to bleed from this? Be honest.

#48 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 09:47 AM | Reply

I'm still waiting for my $2500.00 per year for six years.

#43 | Posted by Federalist at

Is that all you expect to get from this? You can be bought cheap.

#49 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 09:48 AM | Reply

My wife and I are likely to make a killing on this tax bill. A killing. We've already written our representatives to tell them that whatever amount they're trying to buy us with will be donated to their political opposition next election.

#50 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 09:51 AM | Reply

Poor old me. I'm a broken record. I can't help myself.

#28 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-

Help will always be given to those who ask.

#51 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 09:53 AM | Reply

Remember when "conservatives" pretended to care about the deficit? Those were the days.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-02 10:07 AM | Reply

Remember when "conservatives" pretended to care about the deficit? Those were the days.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-02 10:07 AM | Reply

Or when "conservatives" were suspicious of Russian autocrats?

#53 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 10:09 AM | Reply

"Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests."

Another proud flunked from math class.

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 10:10 AM | Reply

flunked = flunkee

Damned auto-spell; I corrected it twice, and it still changed it back upon publish.

#55 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 10:11 AM | Reply

This law allows the wealthy to be pass on generational wealth forever without taxation.

#56 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Remember when "conservatives" pretended to care about the deficit? Those were the days.

For eight years under Obama it was all they talked about. Passing this bill after that is a staggering act of hypocrisy.

#57 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-02 10:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

It's not hypocrisy at all. They will balance the budget except for the wars.

#58 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 11:16 AM | Reply

We will be just like Equatorial Guinea.

They seem to be fine.

#59 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 11:25 AM | Reply


@#17 ... Republicans are so broken and corrupt that even with full control of government, they couldn't go through ordinary procedures to draft and pass a major bill. ...

Worth repeating.

The only reason the Republicans were able to pull enough votes together to pass this bill was that they would lose their campaign donations if they didn't.

Let that sink in for a bit.

This tax bill was passed to placate the large donors of the Republican party.

How many of those who voted for the "populist" candidate Trump donated over ten thousand dollars to their Congressional representatives? If you didn't, then this bill is not in your benefit. It is as simple as that.

#60 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

How many of those who voted for the "populist" candidate Trump donated over ten thousand dollars to their Congressional representatives?

#60 | Posted by LampLighter at

Very few. But Trump and the GOP seem to have a plan in place to grab that $10,000 anyway.

#61 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 12:01 PM | Reply

As Michelle Goldberg noted in the Russia Owns Trump article we have, "a Republican Party willing to tolerate something close to treason if it's the price of corporate tax cuts."

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-02 12:04 PM | Reply

By Editorial Board December 2 at 9:01 AM

THE NATIONAL debt is $20 trillion and rising. That is the highest it has been as a slice of the economy since 1950. Now the Senate has approved a tax plan that would make the problem substantially worse while widening inequality and reducing access to health-care coverage. The current generation will pay. The next will pay more.

The bill's centerpiece -- a corporate tax cut -- could be worthwhile, but only if it were financed by eliminating corporate tax loopholes and were revenue-neutral. This cut vastly increases debt at the long-term expense of middle-class taxpayers.

For those in the individual health-care market, the bill promises only to promote chaos by repealing the Affordable Care Act's individual insurance mandate, a key element of the law, without a replacement.

Senators such as Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), who halted a sloppy repeal a few months ago, voted Friday to betray many of the people they once sought to protect.

Republicans rushed through this massive change in policy with cursory vetting and no attempt at bipartisanship. They either do not care about the debt or they are so deluded by wishful thinking and fantasy economics that they should not be running a gas station, let alone the country.

Either way, they just failed Governing 101.

excerpts

www.washingtonpost.com

Parties... not the same. Thanks rwingers.... and far lefties for pretending that they are.

#63 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-02 12:09 PM | Reply

"This tax bill was passed to placate the large donors of the Republican party.

#60 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2017-12-02 11:49 AM | REPLY | FLAG"

If you want an example of just how in your face the GOP were prepared to be to do this, check out the following link:

www.theguardian.com

#64 | Posted by Foreigner at 2017-12-02 12:21 PM | Reply

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Mantra of big Government.

#32 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

Yeah because the Dems are just a hair away from being full blown communists.

Idiot.

#65 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5


@#64 ... just how in your face the GOP were prepared to be ...

From your cited article:

...Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader, called the Hillsdale exemption a "metaphor" for the Republican tax plan.

"A single wealthy college, the pet project of a billionaire campaign contributor to the Republican party exempted by a [senator] who fought to get rid of earmarks," Schumer said. "This unfortunately is the metaphor for this bill and how high the stench is rising in this chamber as we debate the bill tonight."


Not really a surprise. This says it all, "...the pet project of a billionaire campaign contributor to the Republican party..."

Got to keep those high-wealth donors happy. To them, campaign donations are an investment, and they expect a return on their investment.

For every dollar they contribute, how many dollars do they expect in return?

 

#66 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 12:39 PM | Reply

Keep mentioning the debt. They will help you to take care of that. Just demolish entitlements. Nobody likes entitled people anyway.

#67 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 12:49 PM | Reply

Trump will shut down the government to take care of entitlements.

#68 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-02 12:56 PM | Reply


A peek into the bill that the Republicans passed after having a couple hours to read it...

static01.nyt.com

#69 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 12:58 PM | Reply

The profanity robot doesn't run automatically. I look it over to stop it from doing dumb things like "Vice President ---- Cheney."
#44 | Posted by rcade

I disagree, I think that worked appropriately in ---- Cheney's case

#70 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-02 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Fake news................. Taxes can't be changed without passing congress.

#71 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Taxes can't be changed without passing congress.

The senate is no longer part of congress? Who knew?

#72 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-02 01:06 PM | Reply

"Like the Republican tax bill, Obamacare was in fact a tax increase designed to bail out corporate special interests."

Rays posts have just become too ridiculous to even consider. I doubt I will waste another moment of my life reading such ridiculous crap.

The Republicans just screwed the middle and working class and that moron is still playing "both sides are the same."
What fool.

#73 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-02 01:10 PM | Reply

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Whine whine whine. It's what liberals do these days. Obama can tack on 10 TRILLION of debt, but that's just ok.
And when it comes to the money saving ObamaCare, what a joke.

#74 | Posted by sames1 at 2017-12-02 01:15 PM | Reply

Once again, the party of trumptlians earns my disgust. And trust me anything could pass through the House.

I thought the Senate had procedures in place to prevent ---- like this happening. Doesn't the bill need a CBO score or something?

#75 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-02 01:16 PM | Reply

@#73 ... The Republicans just screwed the middle and working class ...

www.pbs.org

... [The] Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office indicates that, by 2027, by 2027, Americans earning the princely sum of between $40,000 and $50,000 will, collectively combined, pay $5.3 trillion -- trillion -- more in taxes. Americans earning over $1 million, by the same study, will receive $5.7 trillion in tax cuts....

#76 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 01:16 PM | Reply

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Whine whine whine. It's what liberals do these days. Obama can tack on 10 TRILLION of debt, but that's just ok.
And when it comes to the money saving ObamaCare, what a joke.
#74 | Posted by sames1

Since trumptilian concern for the deficit is so sincere and deep, why aren't you concerned about this bill?

Oh yeah you are a hypocrite

#77 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-02 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Republican election theft techniques have now given them so much power that they believe, and may be correct, that they can pass this type of crap without penalty. And yes, average Republicans not privvy to the secrets of the party do share the blame. They have given up their patriotism to become Republican scum bags, every last Republican is a scum bag today. If this wasn't enough to cause you to leave that party then nothing ever will be.

#78 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-02 01:23 PM | Reply


@#75 I thought the Senate had procedures in place ...

The do and the did. But they elected to bypass those procedures in order to get something passed.

The Republicans needed to pass the tax bill to benefit their wealthy donors.

thehill.com

...Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.) had been describing the flurry of lobbying from special interests seeking to protect favored tax provisions when a reporter asked if donors are happy with the tax-reform proposal.

"My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don't ever call me again,' " Collins replied....


#79 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 01:24 PM | Reply

Republican election theft techniques have now given them so much power that they believe, and may be correct, that they can pass this type of crap without penalty. And yes, average Republicans not privvy to the secrets of the party do share the blame. They have given up their patriotism to become Republican scum bags, every last Republican is a scum bag today. If this wasn't enough to cause you to leave that party then nothing ever will be.
#78 | POSTED BY DANNI

There are three ways to account for the rampant corruption in Washington.

1. It's all the Republican's fault.
2. It's all the Democrat's fault.
3. It's all the fault of both parties.

I choose door #3. Both sides have a startling incapacity to see themselves.

Just so you know.

#80 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 01:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Just so you know.

#80 | Posted by Ray at 2017

You don't vote, RAY. Just so you know, that makes you a poor citizen and diminsihes any impact you truly want to make here.

#81 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 02:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Ray:
your comments and the subsequent deflections are getting more and more ridiculous.
First rule of holes; when in a hole, stop digging.

#82 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-12-02 02:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Zed

It's called having a moral conscious. I can't support a system that accepts lying, deception, theft, coercion and murder as its method of operation.

diminsihes any impact you truly want to make here

I would never delude myself of that possibility.

#83 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 02:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Keep in mind that what was voted upon yesterday is not yet law and still has a ways to go. I will be somewhat curious to see in what form the Republican tax plan is enacted once it is finally conferenced by both houses of the Congress together and a final version plan is voted on. I am hoping that it is something quite different than what we are currently seeing. I am hoping that over the next days and weeks there is a backlash against the travesty approved yesterday by the Senate. We just don't know yet. Then again, we live in a nation where abominations such as Roy Moore have a strong chance of being elected Senator...

#84 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-12-02 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

 

@#84 ... once it is finally conferenced by both houses of the Congress together ...

I've heard one report that there is a push in the House to just vote on the Senate version in order to avoid conference.

imo, that's unlikely to occur, but the push is there.

#85 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 02:19 PM | Reply

#80 Ray

You are one of those morons who thinks since neither party is perfect, both parties are the same. One is destroying the country and the other just isn't making you happy. You are the enabler and are more to blame for all the problems in this country than any Democrat.

#86 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-12-02 02:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lamp, I thought about that. It is a legitimate concern at this point. I'm not sure the GOP wants to risk trying to get a final version of this bill with modifications through another public vote. As disgusting as it is, hiding behind the current Senate version might be deemed the path of least resistance.

#87 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-12-02 02:25 PM | Reply

Posted by Federalist:
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Mantra of big Government.

Often attributed to Marx but actually much older.
"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2 44-45

I guess they were the first Communists.

#88 | Posted by TenMile at 2017-12-02 02:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Wouldn't the death of America's Middle class be exactly what Russia wanted?

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 02:38 PM | Reply


@#89 ... Wouldn't the death of America's Middle class be exactly what Russia wanted? ...

My opinion is that Pres Putin would like a divided, chaotic America, the ole "a house divided will fall" thing. He seems to be sowing similar seeds among our allies in Europe. (allies, that is, as much as Pres Trump considers them allies nowadays)

#90 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 02:49 PM | Reply

"I can't support a system that accepts lying, deception, theft, coercion and murder as its method of operation."

You don't support any system. Stop pretending it's for those reasons.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You are one of those morons who thinks since neither party is perfect, both parties are the same. One is destroying the country and the other just isn't making you happy. You are the enabler and are more to blame for all the problems in this country than any Democrat.
#86 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

No. As I've often stated, the problem is in the nature of government. Nothing good can come out of a pathological social system.

You are misreading me. I argue that the two parties complement each other.

Enabler? That's nuts. I refuse to be a contributer.

#92 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 02:53 PM | Reply

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said on the Senate floor that this day would be remembered as one of the "great robberies in U.S. history."
#5 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-12-02 05:09 AM

That will forever be 9/11 to me. I still can't believe not one single news investigation into the gold heist. Not one.

"BURN THE MONEY WITCH!!" - J.Oliver

#93 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-02 02:53 PM | Reply

"I refuse to be a contributer."

You live in this country, dimwit.

You are a contributer.

#94 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-12-02 02:58 PM | Reply

You don't support any system. Stop pretending it's for those reasons.
#91 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I can support a system encourages peaceful cooperation. But such a system does not exist. Nor will probably ever exist.

I have a feeliing you think you know the reasons I haven't stated.

#95 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 02:58 PM | Reply

"I can support a system encourages peaceful cooperation. But such a system does not exist. Nor will probably ever exist."

Don't cut yourself.
On all that "edge," bro.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 02:59 PM | Reply

"I can support a system encourages peaceful cooperation."

What if peaceful cooperation is encouraged by a socioeconomic paradigm where if you don't have any money, you become homeless, don't get health care, and can't eat?

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 03:03 PM | Reply

You are a contributer.
#94 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

Boy. Did you screw that out of context.

#98 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 03:05 PM | Reply

What if peaceful cooperation is encouraged by a socioeconomic paradigm where if you don't have any money, you become homeless, don't get health care, and can't eat?
#97 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Private charities used to thrive until usurped by government welfare.

#99 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 03:10 PM | Reply

"Private charities used to thrive until usurped by government welfare."

Private charities still thrive; the problem is idiots who don't understand the scope, so they believe charities can handle all the need themselves.

#100 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 03:17 PM | Reply

Private charities used to thrive until usurped by government welfare.

Private charities use to exist. but had conditions on who could benefit and what was required of them.

Government welfare is available to all. Any conditions placed upon government welfare was done by republicans.

Republicans hate Americans.

Their charity is only extended to their immediate family.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-02 03:21 PM | Reply

Government welfare is available to all.

It sounds logical until you realize that government meddling in the market economy is a major cause of unemployment and poverty.

Think of all those millions of people who work for government who produce nothing but obstacles.

#102 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 03:26 PM | Reply

"Private charities used to thrive until usurped by government welfare."
Private charities still thrive; the problem is idiots who don't understand the scope, so they believe charities can handle all the need themselves.
#100 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 03:17 PM

Right. Many well-off communities disallow giving food to homeless people for fear of bring them onto their streets where they would be seen constantly.

I can't believe I've saying this but Utah seems to have a real path to success, and it has zilch to do with depriving people essential needs.

Ray - I agree that the "party" system is a fraud. They not only "compliment" each other but refuse to progress beyond grooming oil, opioids and ignorance of their operations. Granted there are some good players (all dems for some reason, hmm), but the majority know it's a sham and deserve to be sham-wowed.

I've heard that not enough states ratifies the income tax legislation and it's been operating illegally since it's inception. Is that true? If so, why isn't this a topic EVER?

#103 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-02 03:29 PM | Reply

"Keep in mind that what was voted upon yesterday is not yet law and still has a ways to go."

There are differences between the House and Senate bill, yes. But it's the similarities that are alarming, and those WILL be part of the final bill.

Deducting medical expenses goes away. I don't get a lot of clients who deduct medical expenses, because the out-of-pocket has to exceed 10% of your AGI for you to deduct the first dollar. But for those who need it, getting f^cked a second time when they go to do their taxes is ruthlessly cruel.

Deducting worker expenses goes away. This isn't just Union dues, it's uniforms, licensing, required education, etc. And think about industries which have high employee costs, like performing artists. Actors often hit out-of-town large auditions to get work. Now, the travel to get that work, and the travel to that work will no longer be deductible. Worst of all, imagine a concert violinist being told her six-figure violin is no longer depreciable.

It's tax "reform" being written be folks who don't understand the first thing about taxes. If I didn't know better, I'd think they didn't have a single public hearing, and they never interviewed a single expert.

#104 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 03:32 PM | Reply

Last night was one of those times in history where you watch a nation's legislature vote to its county.

#105 | Posted by SLBronkowitz at 2017-12-02 03:34 PM | Reply


@#104 ... Deducting worker expenses goes away. ...

At one point I read that the deduction allowed for teachers who spend their own money on supplies for their classroom was going away.

Do you know if that is still correct?

#106 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 03:41 PM | Reply

#104 - Specifically removing those deductibles doesn't seem specifically targeted? Again, this is continuing class warfare and the majority rely on specialists - and what is more specialized than taxes or medical coding? It's a scam industry and the redistribution of "costs" always goes in one direction only.

#107 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-02 03:42 PM | Reply

"I've heard that not enough states ratifies the income tax legislation and it's been operating illegally since it's inception. Is that true?"

No.

It's been claimed a lot by kooks, but court case after court case has proven otherwise.

#108 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 03:43 PM | Reply

They think some classes need to have economic warfare waged against them.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 03:45 PM | Reply

"Private charities used to thrive until usurped by government welfare."

Oh, so the rich would be more charitable, but government won't let them.
But don't the rich own the government? So, the rich are stopping themselves from being charitable. And you blame the government they own.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"At one point I read that the deduction allowed for teachers who spend their own money on supplies for their classroom was going away. Do you know if that is still correct?"

They might have reinstated that at the last moment, but I know it was out in at least one of the bills.

You know...because they have to pay for Paris Hilton's tax cut some how.

Other actions specifically target toward education including eliminating the Lifetime Learning Credit, the Tuition and Fees Deduction, deductibility of student loan interest, workers re-educating themselves, paying for licensing costs, and continuing ed requirements. In addition, employers retraining employees has just been disincentivized, compared to current law.

Plus, in this tax cut bill, there are two NEW taxes: a tax on University/College endowments, and a tax on tuition waivers for TAs and the like.

These folks were surgical, in their hate for education.

#111 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 03:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I've heard that not enough states ratifies the income tax legislation and it's been operating illegally since it's inception. Is that true? If so, why isn't this a topic EVER?
#103 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

Do you mean the 16th Amendment? It wouldn't surprise me if chicanery was involved.

#112 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 03:50 PM | Reply

"Deducting worker expenses goes away. This isn't just Union dues, it's uniforms, licensing, required education, etc"

Hopefully they can offset that by making political contributions tax-deductible.

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 03:53 PM | Reply

I have to give credit where credit is due. To complete the vote on this tax reform bill on the very same night that the Media is ablaze with news of Flynn's plea, is a stroke of political genius. It is underhanded, devious, reeks of subterfuge, but the timing was amazing from a dispassionate point of view. It also seems like they are intentionally trying to demoralize the folks who are basically cheering because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that this the Flynn deal is the next step in impeaching Trump.

#114 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-02 03:55 PM | Reply

Oh, so the rich would be more charitable, but government won't let them.
But don't the rich own the government? So, the rich are stopping themselves from being charitable. And you blame the government they own.
#110 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I said nothing about government blocking charities. Government welfare is more generous, less stringent, therefore more attractive.

Welfare is a proven way to buy votes and quell the risk of civil disorder.

#115 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 03:58 PM | Reply

"Welfare is a proven way to buy votes and quell the risk of civil disorder."

Must be why the Constitution says to promote the general welfare.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 04:00 PM | Reply

I hate trumptilians.

#117 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-02 04:01 PM | Reply

"Do you mean the 16th Amendment? It wouldn't surprise me if chicanery was involved."

Of course. Because you can't possibly be bothered to research the truth.

www.loc.gov
www.tax-freedom.com
www.nytimes.com
www.irs.gov

#118 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-02 04:01 PM | Reply

@#111 ... These folks were surgical, in their hate for education. ...

It almost appears as if the top 1% want little else but a country of illiterate workers to serve their needs.

And to be able to pass their wealth on to their next generation.

#119 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 04:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Government welfare is more generous, less stringent, therefore more attractive."

What's that got to do with what I asked, which is "What if peaceful cooperation is encouraged by a socioeconomic paradigm where if you don't have any money, you become homeless, don't get health care, and can't eat?"

Are you saying that's not really the world we live in? That government and private charity alike will prevent you from becoming homeless? Why then are there 5,000 homeless people in about a ten mile radius of me?

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-02 04:04 PM | Reply

Think of all those millions of people who work for government who produce nothing but obstacles.

#102 | POSTED BY RAY

Name some of them. Seriously go ahead and tell us about them.

Its a seriously cute talking point for simple minded people but when you begin trying to figure out where to cut, you realize what they do.

#121 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-12-02 04:16 PM | Reply

Because you can't possibly be bothered to research the truth.
#118 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I was thinking along the lines of public deception. It was sold as a tax on the rich.

#122 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 04:24 PM | Reply

Taxes can't be changed without passing congress.

The senate is no longer part of congress? Who knew?

#72 | Posted by REDIAL

Are you a moron? The senate and the house have to meet and agree on a final bill then it has to be signed by the president. Don't you know anything about your government?

#123 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:25 PM | Reply

The Republicans just screwed the middle and working class and that moron is still playing "both sides are the same."
What fool.

#73 | Posted by danni

Tell me how they did that ddan.

#124 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:26 PM | Reply

[The] Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office indicates that, by 2027, by 2027, Americans earning the princely sum of between $40,000 and $50,000 will, collectively combined, pay $5.3 trillion -- trillion -- more in taxes. Americans earning over $1 million, by the same study, will receive $5.7 trillion in tax cuts....

#76 | Posted by LampLighter

If you think this tax code will last that long you are crazy. It will change a couple times before then.

#125 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:27 PM | Reply

@#75 I thought the Senate had procedures in place ...

The do and the did. But they elected to bypass those procedures in order to get something passed.

"My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don't ever call me again,' " Collins replied....

#79 | Posted by LampLighter

Damn, just the way o'bummer care went thru congress. Who would have thought?

#126 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:29 PM | Reply

I've heard one report that there is a push in the House to just vote on the Senate version in order to avoid conference.

imo, that's unlikely to occur, but the push is there.

#85 | Posted by LampLighter

News flash......... the house passed their bill a couple weeks ago.

#127 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:31 PM | Reply

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
Mantra of big Government.

Often attributed to Marx but actually much older.
"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2 44-45

I guess they were the first Communists.

#88 | Posted by TenMile

It didn't work for the pilgrams either.

#128 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:33 PM | Reply

What's that got to do with what I asked, which is "What if peaceful cooperation is encouraged by a socioeconomic paradigm where if you don't have any money, you become homeless, don't get health care, and can't eat?"
#120 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

In an imperfect world, separation between commerce and State is the best option. The State is a drain on the economy and the source of corporate welfare.

#129 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 04:34 PM | Reply

The senate and the house have to meet and agree on a final bill then it has to be signed by the president.

The House bill will be pretty much the same thing, and donald will sign anything they put in front of him.

Don't you know anything about your government?

It's your government, not mine.

#130 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-02 04:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

These folks were surgical, in their hate for education.

#111 | Posted by Danforth

What education system? Ours is a failure.

#131 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:37 PM | Reply

@#127 ... news flash......... the house passed their bill a couple weeks ago ...

And the House bill is separate and distinct from the Senate bill.

Usually what happens next is the bill enters Conference where the House and Senate work through the differences to come up with one bill for both Houses of Congress.

That Conference can be avoided if the House just accepts the Senate bill, as is, instead of going to conference.

#132 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 04:38 PM | Reply

@#131 ... What education system? Ours is a failure. ...

Please don't leave me straight lines like that...

#133 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Name some of them. Seriously go ahead and tell us about them.
Its a seriously cute talking point for simple minded people but when you begin trying to figure out where to cut, you realize what they do.
#121 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

All of them. Problem solved.

#134 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 04:39 PM | Reply

Our fine education system.

www.businessinsider.com

#135 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-02 04:40 PM | Reply

Republicans like Ray, Federalist, and Sames who are sticking up for their politicians are like their hero's who passed this give away to the 1%. Traitors to their country!

When their money gets taken away and they don't have enough to pay for ammo for their pea shooters, they'll blame the black guy who was president before their guy, the Orange Fuhrer. They love Fascist's and fascism.

#136 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-12-02 04:50 PM | Reply

Add Sniper to my above list.

#137 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-12-02 04:51 PM | Reply

#83

You're a carping slacker, RAY. Doesn't mean I don't love you.

#138 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-02 05:05 PM | Reply

@#136 ... Our fine education system. ...

It doesn't look like the failure that you say it is.

Could it be better? Absolutely. Especially in Math.

But is it a failure? No.

So the question I pose to you is the following: what do you recommend be done to make our education system better --- use a tax bill to try to hurt the education system, or use a tax bill to try to help the education system?

#139 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-02 05:10 PM | Reply

Zed - you're a gentleman.

#140 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 05:13 PM | Reply

But is it a failure? No.
#139 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Ironically, you're a good example of a failed education system.

Government education is designed to encourage group-think and discourage independent thinking.

#141 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-02 05:17 PM | Reply

Ray is Nulli in 20 years.

Nihilist "anarchist", lmao.

#142 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-02 05:51 PM | Reply

Don't you know anything about your government?

Sniper, in all sincerity, I daresay that the Retort members from foreign countries have a better grasp of our political system than even college-educated Americans.

#143 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-02 07:00 PM | Reply

Damn, just the way o'bummer care went thru congress. Who would have thought?

#126 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Not even close, moron.

Slurp up some more rightwing radio talking points. You're needed to support them while they rob you blind.

#144 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 07:46 PM | Reply

What education system? Ours is a failure.

#131 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Just because you failed and continue to fail every day doesn't mean the system failed.

Some people are just doomed to a life of dim witted semi-literacy.

#145 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 07:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Our fine education system.
www.businessinsider.com

#135 | POSTED BY SNIPER

You're the perfect example of a useful idiot.

The right tanks the education system and you point to said tanking as proof it's bad.

I give you a few months, tops, before you start declaring that the deficits accrued by the new tax bill must be dealt with by axing entitlement programs because liberals spend too much.

#146 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 07:49 PM | Reply

Government education is designed to encourage group-think and discourage independent thinking.

#141 | POSTED BY RAY

Yawn.

I always love folks who think that the fact that no one agrees with them is proof that they're correct.

#147 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 07:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Think of all those millions of people who work for government who produce nothing but obstacles.
#102 | POSTED BY RAY
Name some of them. Seriously go ahead and tell us about them.
Its a seriously cute talking point for simple minded people but when you begin trying to figure out where to cut, you realize what they do.
#121 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-12-02 04:16 PM

Homeland Security immediately comes to mind. Do you support their stockpiling armament, militarization of police or the full-body scanners which are networked and recording since day one? These are easily searched and verified topics to groom out if you like this "federal department" enough. Aren't they tied into ICE and border patrol somehow? Probably financially, so they are pushing their wall contract before they squirm back into their holes.

The militarization of the police and the militarization of oil should be considered obstacles - they are constantly misused to our detriment.

#148 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-02 08:30 PM | Reply

Our fine education system.
www.businessinsider.com
#135 | POSTED BY SNIPER
You're the perfect example of a useful idiot.
The right tanks the education system and you point to said tanking as proof it's bad.
I give you a few months, tops, before you start declaring that the deficits accrued by the new tax bill must be dealt with by axing entitlement programs because liberals spend too much.
#146 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 07:49 PM

Then why didn't you agree with him? You demand he interpret how rather than agree with the current results..

Those evangelical whatevers who produce our current high school education materials should be investigated for intellectual crimes but specifically whomever contracted, hired and otherwise established this scheme needs to be "protected" behind bars. How's that for a start? The change had to begin at the most fundamental levels - those who make the critical determinations should be at least capable of testing and successfully passing on the very civics information they intend on denying everyone else.

Imo, it's bad enough that all schooling is rote crap, but the worst limitations are of skirting reality for appearances, particularly to remove counter-intellectualism and logical progress away from Religious fundamentalism.

#149 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-02 08:46 PM | Reply

Then why didn't you agree with him?

For the same reason I wouldn't agree with someone complaining that x is broken/doesn't work right after they finished taking a hammer to x.

#150 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-02 09:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In 2-4 years when everyone realizes Republican economics is a tragic farce, the winners will have pocketed trillions, which unlike Wall Street's typical crimes, can never be disgorged. because its the law.

#151 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-03 05:47 AM | Reply

It's gonna be great.

kind of like the collapse of Rome, but broadcast every where so the whole world can watch this time.

#152 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-12-03 06:32 AM | Reply

me.me

#153 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-12-03 07:24 AM | Reply

The militarization of the police and the militarization of oil should be considered obstacles - they are constantly misused to our detriment.
#148 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

If I had my way, a good start would be to cut DC from the union. It has far too much power among too few.

#154 | Posted by Ray at 2017-12-03 08:38 AM | Reply

Nowhere in the article does it mention a tax hike to millions of people. Maybe reading between the lines, unemployed people now able to be employed (because lower corporate rates) would go from public concern to taxpayer. I get that some people will not be able to deduct state taxes and mortgage interest but that is a "haves" problem. Really misleading headline here. But it is true that only people that pay taxes can have their taxes reduced.

#155 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-12-03 09:29 AM | Reply

"Maybe reading between the lines, unemployed people now able to be employed (because lower corporate rates) would go from public concern to taxpayer."

Why do you believe that will happen, when a) companies surveyed leaned much more toward buybacks and dividends, and b) the new tax bill will comparatively disincentivize reinvestment. For example, currently an employee retraining program costing $100K would result in a $35K tax credit. Now that same $100K investment will only result in a $20K tax credit.

Question for the class: Is the owner now MORE inclined to retrain workers, or LESS inclined?

"Nowhere in the article does it mention a tax hike to millions of people. "

There will be a tax hike to millions of people. All the newsfotainment stations have had segments on who gets hit, and how.

"only people that pay taxes can have their taxes reduced."

Everyone pays taxes. You're pretending payroll, excise, and ad valorum taxes aren't taxes. For example, if you limit the discussion to payroll taxes, stats and ratios alter dramatically.

#156 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-03 09:40 AM | Reply

Those evangelical whatevers who produce our current high school education materials should be investigated for intellectual crimes

#149 | Posted by redlightrobot

The cure is fostering a general love of reading, and learning. Christianity has nothing to fear from educated people. Certain cults do.

#157 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-03 09:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nowhere in the article does it mention a tax hike to millions of people. Maybe reading between the lines, unemployed people now able to be employed (because lower corporate rates) would go from public concern to taxpayer. I get that some people will not be able to deduct state taxes and mortgage interest but that is a "haves" problem. Really misleading headline here. But it is true that only people that pay taxes can have their taxes reduced.

#155 | Posted by Nuke_Gently

Except corporate CEOs have said these tax breaks wont make them hire more americans. They'll just do stock buybacks and keep the money for themselves, like they've been doing for years.

Sucker.

#158 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-03 04:27 PM | Reply

If you think this tax code will last that long you are crazy. It will change a couple times before then.
#125 | POSTED BY SNIPER

"Hey, that plane is heading right for the World Trade Center."

"It's okay, the pilot still has plenty of time to turn."

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-03 05:35 PM | Reply

You know...if the Democratic Party hadn't worked so diligently to drive away moderate Christians and people who might be called "middle America", there's a pretty good chance Trump wouldn't be in office.

#160 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-12-03 08:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#160 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT

Yap.

Like you, I'd be looking to blame someone else if I voted for him too.

#161 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-12-03 08:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Except corporate CEOs have said these tax breaks wont make them hire more americans. They'll just do stock buybacks and keep the money for themselves, like they've been doing for years.
Sucker.

#158 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2017-12-03 04:27 PM | REPLY

And there are a lot of CEOs that have said they will expand and hire more. I'll wait for your usual intelligent response that will go something like this "those ceos are lying, cuz I heard it."

#162 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-12-04 10:35 AM | Reply

"And there are a lot of CEOs that have said they will expand and hire more." - #162 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-12-04 10:35 AM

No, they haven't said that.

Why would they?

Business is not an altruistic affair.

The single and only reason to "expand and hire more" is to meet demand.

#163 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-04 11:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks Hans for filling in for Speak.

#164 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-12-04 12:23 PM | Reply

And there are a lot of CEOs that have said they will expand and hire more. I'll wait for your usual intelligent response that will go something like this "those ceos are lying, cuz I heard it."

#162 | Posted by fishpaw

www.cnbc.com

"A meeting of CEOs might seem to be a friendly gathering place for President Donald Trump's chief economic adviser Gary Cohn, former president of Goldman Sachs.

But at a gathering of chief executives hosted yesterday by the Wall Street Journal, business leaders called into question one of Cohn's top arguments for slashing the corporate tax rate to 20 percent.

When one of the Journal's editors asked the crowd if they planned to up their capital expenditure if the GOP's tax plan went through, only a smattering raised their hands.

"Why aren't the other hands up?" Cohn asked. "

#165 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-04 01:34 PM | Reply

Show me a Republican Christian and I'll show you a hypocrite.

#166 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-05 03:29 AM | Reply

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