Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, November 13, 2017

Roy Moore isn't alone in liking very young girls as sexual partners. The grooming of children to marry adult men is a common practice in American evangelical circles, and infamous child-bride advocates are celebrated on the lecture circuit, especially among home schoolers. These "courting" experts counsel parents to encourage their children to seek marriage with adult men, advocating for marriage in the "middle-teens." It's a widespread view among the hard right evangelical world, mainstream enough that Duck Dynasty star Phil Robertson has publicly advised his fans to marry 15- or 16-year-old girls, because "you wait until they get to be 20 years old, the only picking that's going to take place is your pocket." This view was defended by mainstream Republicans, and Robertson has continued to enjoy success in right-wing media, with a new show on CRTV.

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Predictably, adult men who are caught having sex with children blame the children for "seducing" them, and in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist sect, these children are forced to repent for having "sinned" by tempting adults to commit statutory rape, making public confessions to their congregations.

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When Moore says he never dated teenage girls "without their mother's permission," most commentators took that as a form of blame-shifting and misogyny. When state auditor Jim Ziegler disgustingly defended Moore as a "single man, early 30s, never been married, dating teenage girls–never been married and he liked younger girls," most didn't pay much attention to his curious emphasis on "single" and "never been married." When Alabama County GOP Chair David Hall defended Moore's alleged sexual predation on a 14-year-old girl with "she's not saying that anything happened other than they kissed," it was taken as a gross defense of repulsive behavior out of political expediency.

But these statements form a pattern drawn directly from the culture of Moore's fanatical evangelical supporters: the age difference simply doesn't bother them.

In their world, young women are a burden to their families, a constant temptation to sin, their bodies a Devil's playground. For them, the goal of an upstanding parent is to raise sons who will defend their honor and their heritage by any means necessary, and to raise daughters who will keep their own honor pure via chastity until they can be transferred to the "care" of an approved man in an arrangement sanctioned by both sides and by their God. From this perspective, age of consent laws are an inconvenience merely allowing more time for young women to develop rebellious habits and engage in unbecoming conduct.

I think this is an extremely important aspect of this controversy that needs a much more thorough understanding. This is the domestic version of the religious-based intersection of perversion and privilege which supposed 'men of God' have created to give cover for their biological lusts and cravings. And it needs to be recognized in the same vein of other religion's allowance of older men to prey, date and often marry young women often still in their early teens.

But pay particular attention to the language and biblical connections the defenders of this abhorrent practice use when defending one of its purveyors like Roy Moore. It is a dead giveaway to the culture of predation they truly believe is biblically based.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-11-12 08:02 AM | Reply

Much of the sexual abuse that takes place in Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, or IFB, churches involves adult men targeting 14- to 16-year-old girls. If caught, the teenage victim may be forced to repent the "sin" of having seduced an adult man. Former IFB megachurch pastor Jack Schaap argued that he should be released from prison after being convicted of molesting a 16-year-old girl, asserting that the "aggressiveness" of his victim "inhibited [his] impulse control." In the wake of the Schaap case, numerous other stories emerged of sexual abuse cover-ups involving teenage girls at IFB churches. In another high-profile case, pregnant 15-year-old Tina Anderson, who was raped by a church deacon twice her age, was forced to confess her "sin" to the congregation.

Prominent conservative Reformed theologian Doug Wilson has a documented history of mishandling sexual abuse cases within his congregation. Nevertheless, he continues to be promoted by evangelical leaders such as John Piper, whose Desiring God site still publishes Wilson's work. When a 13-year-old girl in Wilson's congregation was sexually abused, Wilson argued that she and her abuser were in a parent-sanctioned courtship, and that this was a mitigating factor.

There's no shortage of such stories. A Presbyterian Church in America, or PCA, pastor attempted to discipline a woman who warned home-school parents of the convicted sex offender in his congregation. (The sex offender had gone online to solicit a 14-year-old girl for sex.) Another PCA church allowed that same convicted sex offender to give the invocation at a home-school graduation ceremony. He wasn't perceived as an attempted child rapist, and he was "repentant."

The allegations against Roy Moore are merely a symptom of a larger problem. It's not a Southern problem or an Alabama problem. It's a Christian fundamentalist problem. Billy Graham's grandson, Boz Tchividjian, who leads the organization GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in a Christian Environment), believes that the sexual abuse problem in Protestant communities is on par with that in the Catholic Church.

www.latimes.com

#2 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-11-12 08:14 AM | Reply

Isn't it a general religion problem? The ability to twist religious logic makes one a "holy man".

#3 | Posted by squinch at 2017-11-12 08:49 AM | Reply

Sexual repression leads to sexual perversion.
Muslims are screwed too.

#4 | Posted by bored at 2017-11-12 12:32 PM | Reply

As Seen On Twitter:
Candice not Candy‏ @artist4ever

I must have missed something somewhere. Since the GOP seems perfectly fine with grown men sexually abusing young girls, what was the big fear that led to the "bathroom bill"?
twitter.com

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-12 12:38 PM | Reply

Though Trump is obviously not anything like a praticing evangelical, his personal predilections eerily mirror those mentioned above:

Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant said Donald Trump walked into the dressing room while contestants -- some as young as 15 -- were changing.

"I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there's a man in here,' " said Mariah Billado, the former Miss Vermont Teen USA.

Trump, she recalled, said something like, "Don't worry, ladies, I've seen it all before."

Three other women, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of getting engulfed in a media firestorm, also remembered Trump entering the dressing room while girls were changing. Two of them said the girls rushed to cover their bodies, with one calling it "shocking" and "creepy." The third said she was clothed and introduced herself to Trump.

Billado said she told Ivanka Trump (Trump's daughter), about Donald Trump entering the room while the girls were changing their clothes. Billado remembers Ivanka answering, "Yeah, he does that." www.politifact.com

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-11-12 02:20 PM | Reply

More evidence that religion is more often than not evil.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-12 03:20 PM | Reply

Nearly 40 percent of Alabama evangelicals said in a new poll that they are more likely to vote for GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore following allegations of sexual misconduct against him.

A JMC analytics poll found that 37 percent of evangelicals surveyed said the allegations make them more likely to vote for the GOP Senate candidate in the upcoming election.

Just 28 percent said the allegations made them less likely to vote for Moore and 34 percent said the allegations made no difference in their decision.

These numbers cannot be attributed to pure political tribalism. It is quite simply a culture of abuse.

thehill.com

This is Alabama.

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-11-12 10:17 PM | Reply

Power is a fragrance irresistible to some men.

#9 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-11-13 05:34 AM | Reply

That, and they are programmed to believe females are inferior. Some are predators by nature. Religion encodes their behavior as a means to maintain domination.

#10 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-11-13 06:04 AM | Reply

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Who would've thought those fine DD morons were into pedophilia?

#11 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-13 09:03 AM | Reply

Imagine the Right Wing Christian cries of outrage if it were black men having sex with unerage white girls. That should tell you everything you need to know about this, if it is wrong for a black man to do it then it is just as wrong for a white man to do it.

#12 | Posted by danni at 2017-11-13 09:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What you all ignore is there is no cover or excuse in any Christian religious text, nowhere. Christian forbids wife abuse, rape, pedophile, adultery, homosexuality, all of it. The only sexual activity allowed is within marriage. What we are looking at is the prevalence of sociopaths in many organizations including the Catholic Church, academia, Hollywood, and Washington. Organizations , especially hierarchical ones, attract sociopaths as it feeds their self aggrandizement, and need for power. Seen plenty of them in the Army. This isn't about sex, it is about domination and control. These people all have the same reaction when caught, "It wasn't my fault". As good as their lies are, they eventually pay for their behavior.

#13 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-13 11:09 AM | Reply

"Christian forbids wife abuse, rape, pedophile, adultery, homosexuality, all of it." - #11 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-13 11:09 AM

Not really.

In some cases it actually speaks fondly of it.

All of it.

#14 | Posted by Hans at 2017-11-13 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#11 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

A few things:

1. How much of it is New Testament? You know, the part of the Bible that matters if you're a Christian. In other words, Leviticus doesn't count.

2. Why do you avoid mentioning the guilty party here-namely holier than thou evangelicals?

3. Going along with what you said, why is the religious right collectively so unable to denounce people like Moore, including with their vote?

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-13 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Imagine the Right Wing Christian cries of outrage if it were black men having sex with unerage white girls.

Lets start with the left wing media outrage with Muslims doing the same thing first...

#16 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-13 01:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Boaz says having sex with children is okay in America.

(until the liberal media says it's not okay in Saudi Arabia.)

This has been a great week for right wing Evangelicals. We really do appreciate your heartfelt honesty on age of consent issues.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 02:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The linked article is pretty weak. It's poorly sourced. It quotes one of the DD Dynasty dudes but provides no context. When I read the quoted remark it sounded like it might not have been serious, that it might have been a joke.

I don't deny that this happens (Google: Warren Jeffs). The question is, how widespread is it? The piece that Banner linked doesn't provide much insight.

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-13 02:26 PM | Reply

#5 the point of the article is not about the prevalence but about the belief among Evangelicals like Boaz that this kind of thing is okay.

And also, about the belief that 14 year old girls are seducing men, rather than the other way round

It about institutionalized sexism.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 02:34 PM | Reply

#5 the point of the article is not about the prevalence

The prevalence matters. Greatly.

Re-read the headline:

American evangelical Christianity's child bride problem

That headline broad-brushes and creates the impression, intentionally or not, that this is common in evangelical Christian communities.

#20 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-13 02:39 PM | Reply

The belief that it's okay is the reason it happens, in any degree.

Why isn't that a good place to start fixing this problem?

What will knowing the prevalence do to change the way you think about this issue? Let's say it's one in five marriages, now what? Let's say it's one in five thousand, now what?

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 02:42 PM | Reply

That headline broad-brushes and creates the impression, intentionally or not, that this is common in evangelical Christian communities.

#7 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-11-13 02:39 PM | FLAG:

So?

#22 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-11-13 06:02 PM | Reply

That headline broad-brushes and creates the impression, intentionally or not, that this is common in evangelical Christian communities.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ

Not as much as those communities' reactions to roy moore do. That tells you everything you need to know.

"Even if it's true, it's not that bad."

#23 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-13 07:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lets start with the left wing media outrage with Muslims doing the same thing first...
#3 | POSTED BY BOAZ

In an America-First world, we have to purge our deplorables before we focus on other countries. Get the pedophiles, the theocrats, and the Boazes out!

#7 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Precisely why it says "Evangelical Christians" and not just "Christians".

#24 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-13 07:37 PM | Reply

Its all good......im sure Roy can afford it.

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

#25 | Posted by soulfly at 2017-11-13 08:13 PM | Reply

- he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Wow, that IS cruel and unusual. Good thing those laws from several millennia ago are totally irrelevant today, right?

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-13 08:32 PM | Reply

That headline broad-brushes and creates the impression, intentionally or not, that this is common in evangelical Christian communities.
#7 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-11-13 02:39 PM | FLAG:

It shouldn't matter if you turn your head?

#27 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-11-13 08:43 PM | Reply

....Good thing those laws from several millennia ago are totally irrelevant today, right?

#13 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-11-13 08:32 PM | REPLY

Im pretty sure its all BS. But if your a "believer" it should all be relevant.

"For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

#28 | Posted by soulfly at 2017-11-13 09:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's best for ADULTS to marry after high school and to someone they have common interests with.

And no.

It usually can't just be religion in common.

#29 | Posted by Tor at 2017-11-13 09:17 PM | Reply

It's best for ADULTS to marry after high school and to someone they have common interests with.

And no.

It usually can't just be religion in common.

#16 | Posted by Tor

Are your interests the same as the ones you had when you graduated high school?

Marrying your high school sweetheart might work and it might not. Telling people that's the way to go is ignorant and arrogant as hell.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-13 09:19 PM | Reply

"after high school" encompasses decades of time.

#31 | Posted by Tor at 2017-11-13 09:27 PM | Reply

Isn't this Christian-sharia law??????

#32 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-11-13 09:30 PM | Reply

"That headline broad-brushes and creates the impression, intentionally or not, that this is common in evangelical Christian communities."

The belief that it is acceptable is common.
For whatever reason you've decided to ignore that.

You never answered how many underage marriages it takes for you to think it's worth further investigation.

Is this all because you married your high school sweetheart when you were both right around 18, maybe a little younger?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 09:42 PM | Reply

"About 57,800 minors in the U.S. ages 15 to 17 were married as of 2014. That might sound like a lot of people (and it is), but it's also just five of every 1,000 in that age group, a Pew Research Center analysis of 2014 data from the Census Bureau's American Community Survey finds."
www.pewresearch.org

"At least 207,468 minors married in the US between 2000 and 2015, according to data compiled by Unchained At Last, a group campaigning to abolish child marriage, and investigative documentary series Frontline."
www.independent.co.uk

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 09:44 PM | Reply

I'm starting to think the dad of a girl I dated when I was a teen forced her to stop seeing me because I was her age.

What a Jerk.

#35 | Posted by Tor at 2017-11-13 09:49 PM | Reply

Evangelicals know you gotta rope em in when they're young and stupid. As people learn and grow, they reject fairy tales.

If you can get a girl knocked up early, she'll be more likely be an obedient sheep the rest of her life.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-13 10:04 PM | Reply

Here's a piece of advice right-wingers love to give poor blacks: jacksonville.com
Brookings whittled down a lot of analysis into three simple rules. You can avoid poverty by:
1. Graduating from high school.
2. Waiting to get married until after 21 and do not have children till after being married.
3. Having a full-time job.

Right-wingers, can you talk about how your support for childhood marriage factors into that?
Signed,
What Your Conscience Would Be Asking, If You Had One.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 10:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's good advise for all Americans snoof.

Child bride advocates are in wanton violation of it.

#38 | Posted by Tor at 2017-11-13 10:10 PM | Reply

- it should all be relevant.

lmao.... Marjoe Jr doesn't know the difference between the two Testaments.

Jesus said, "Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil" (Matthew 5:17). Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. When He fulfilled them, they were no longer needed.

truthfortheworld.org

#39 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-13 11:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't deny that this happens (Google: Warren Jeffs). The question is, how widespread is it? The piece that Banner linked doesn't provide much insight.

#18 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-11-13 02:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG"

If this link is correct, then there are 25 states which set no minimum age for marriage and 8 more that set it at an age lower than 16. 66% of US states permit child marriage - amazing!

www.npr.org

Whilst I don't know how many child marriages there are in total or per state, if something is legal in 33 states, I would not bet against there being someone in each of those states taking advantage of it. Would you consider that widespread?

#40 | Posted by Foreigner at 2017-11-14 12:10 PM | Reply

I agree with Jeff. This article is pretty lame. It makes claims but offers no proof to back those claims up. Very Trump-like.

#41 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-11-14 02:22 PM | Reply

Snoofy, the second link you posted attributed it poverty.

He added: "Almost all the evidence indicates that girls in cities don't get married young, that girls from middle class or wealthy families, don't get married young. This is a rural phenomenon and it is a phenomenon of poverty."

#42 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-11-14 02:27 PM | Reply

I have no time for Cafeteria Christians. They walk down the buffet line of Christianity, taking the parts they like and ignoring the parts they don't like.

They will interpret something mentioned in passing in one sentence in the old testament and use that as a reason to vote for someone while ignoring the same politicians positions that are directly contrary to something clearly repeated 52 different ways throughout the bible

#43 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-14 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#43

'Strewth! No verse of scripture is a private interpretation... if it is of the Word it is repeated numerous times throughout various books, ages, and authors.

#44 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-14 02:41 PM | Reply

To me the bible is like a 70 year old fruitcake. There are some good bits in there but most of it is long past its usefulness. Over time it has changed into something that can really make you quite sick.

#45 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-14 03:11 PM | Reply

The ancient words haven't changed, except where they have been mistranslated or misconstrued.

Unfortunately, neither have humans changed; they are still too often hypocrites and bigots, just as they were in Jesus' day. His most vitriolic comments were reserved for the priests of his day, who are much the same now as they were then.

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-14 03:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

'Strewth! No verse of scripture is a private interpretation... if it is of the Word it is repeated numerous times throughout various books, ages, and authors.

#44 | Posted by Corky

Over time it has changed into something that can really make you quite sick.

#45 | Posted by hatter5183

I don't think you quite understand where we are in the history of the evolution of Religious beliefs (or Beliefs in general) in America.

Revelations from God can now come directly to each "user" through the word of God (thank you Guttenburg). No Bishop or Pope or Priest is needed to intercede or "interpret" on your behalf. So each person can interpret the bible for themselves. This goes all the way back to Martin Luther and when he nailed his document to the church door that attacked the Catholic Church's corrupt practice of selling "indulgences" to absolve sin. So began the Protestant era.

Now when you have enough people with similar beliefs then you now have a new sect like the Protestants. And now we have thousands? tens of thousands? And you and I nor anyone else cannot say that they do not believe or if what they believe is "valid". Or that their belief system is any less important or accurate or valid than your own belief system. No matter what it is based on. All belief systems were created equal...apparently.

Even now Jeff Sessions is plotting on how that this principle can be applied to the free EXERCISE of those religious beliefs (which IS in the 1st amendment of Constitution) . Think about that for minute. The "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" clause is about to reach the status as the "no infringement clause" of the 2nd amendment.

Now.

I would like to welcome you all to FantasyLand. If you have just arrived you are in for a few surprises.

And I do not think we have even come close to reaching the bottom of this "Reality" rabbit hole.

#47 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-14 03:54 PM | Reply

- So each person can interpret the bible for themselves.
And you and I nor anyone else cannot say that they do not believe or if what they believe is "valid".

We can in most cases say whether what they believe is sourced from and compatible with the original material or is based on traditions or bad translations or other materials. This comes from studying the original material in it's original language and deconstructing the grammar in context to discern what is actually being said.

But you are correct that adding beliefs based on other than the concepts taught in the original material to a perspective where facts don't matter and truth is what you make it... Donald World... is a really bad idea.

The original material teaches that the mark of a believer is agape; unconditional love for others, which is an expression of the spirit of God in us... however metaphorically or literally one might take that. Not philia, which is brotherly love, or eros, which is sexual love, though both those things are part of the experience.

en.wikipedia.org

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-14 04:34 PM | Reply

We can in most cases say whether what they believe is sourced from and compatible with the original material or is based on traditions or bad translations or other materials. This comes from studying the original material in it's original language and deconstructing the grammar in context to discern what is actually being said.

When speaking strictly of Christianity we do have a lot of "source" material. But even that material has been cherry picked to present a certain story. Documents and texts that do not match up to the accepted Model of God and Jesus are just set aside and ignored. They are not Canonical.

But, there are other belief systems that are supposedly just as valid.

How does one study the source materials for Mormonism (golden tablets lost forever)? Or Scientology (a science fiction story). Or Islam (an angel dictated it in a cave)?

If we are going to truly "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" then these religions they will be just as valid as Christianity. Just as Hinduism or even Buddhism (which is technically a philosophy but is considered a religion) or even native American mythologies are just as valid.

This is the rabbit hole we are about to take a flying leap into.

So I welcome you to Fantasyland.

Where we can believe what we want to believe regardless of any reality based facts and we can freely exercise that belief with no prohibitions.


#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-14 04:59 PM | Reply

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