Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, November 12, 2017

Devin Kelley was court-martialed and spent time in a military brig for assaulting his baby stepson and once smuggled weapons onto an Air Force Base in New Mexico after making death threats against commanders. His last rank in the Air Force was "prisoner." He also escaped from a mental health facility. "My honest opinion is you can regulate guns all you want, but if you're not going to red flag somebody who did something like that then that's just stupid. It's just completely dumb," says [Chris] Speer, who was on a break. He is not interested in expanding gun control -- pointing out that a neighbor with a rifle shot the gunman and, in his view, saved lives. But as for Kelley, "the moment he put his hands on a baby he should have been a priority No. 1 red flag. But then you let him go further and he breaks out of a mental institution? That's a red flag!"

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"It would terrify a lot of people to realize how faulty the system really is -- there's a lack of standards on reporting, there are missing records, erroneous records," and the list goes on, says University of Arizona gun culture expert Jennifer Carlson, author of Citizen-Protectors. "The reason why this issue is so important is that both sides of the [gun] debate should want to get this right. The gun rights people don't want faulty records and they want a mechanism to clear someone's record; and the gun control people want the system to be complete and not have holes in it."

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Because,,, guns bro...

None of those other things is liek in teh constitution1!Q!!!one!!!111.

#1 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-12 05:44 PM | Reply

The gun rights people don't want faulty records and they want a mechanism to clear someone's record

Most of them don't want any records at all.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-12 05:51 PM | Reply

Both parties tried to plug the federal reporting problem. They failed, and it's not even certain if the Republican one had passed that it would have worked.

"The Cruz proposal also aimed to facilitate reporting to the instant background check system with guidelines and deadlines for federal agencies, including the armed services. While similar action by the Obama Justice Department around the same time didn't help, Cruz's clarifications becoming law may have. But it's impossible to say with any certainty."

#3 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 07:20 AM | Reply

He was allowed to purchase the firearms because the Air Force failed to submit his conviction for domestic abuse and subsequent dishonorable discharge paperwork to the FBI. It's an example of a situation where more gun laws wouldn't have mattered, because nobody was following the laws that were already on the books.

#4 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 07:28 AM | Reply

If the Air Force had reported him and anybody checked all it would have meant was he had to buy his guns at a gun show. And maybe pay a bit more. NRA and Rs have made sure of that.

#5 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2017-11-13 07:42 AM | Reply

all it would have meant was he had to buy his guns at a gun show

#5 | POSTED BY SOMEBODYELSE AT 2017-11-13 07:42 AM | FLAG:

The shows here require a Federal Firearms License for vendors selling firearms, which means purchases from one requires a background check.

#6 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 07:47 AM | Reply

#5 Your ignorance is shining through. He could have purchased a firearm from a private seller, but almost all the sellers at gun shows are commercial retailers, and have to do background checks.

#7 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 07:48 AM | Reply

He was allowed to purchase the firearms because the Air Force failed to submit his conviction for domestic abuse and subsequent dishonorable discharge paperwork to the FBI. It's an example of a situation where more gun laws wouldn't have mattered, because nobody was following the laws that were already on the books.

#4 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

Way to not read the article. No one is surprised.

There are reporting issues, lack of standards, and lack of records because the law is frankly completely ineffective.

We would love to make an effective reporting law and keep accurate records, but you and the NRA can't have it. Cause Freedumb.

#8 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-13 10:44 AM | Reply

#8 What I hear you arguing is that additional laws would be ineffective because current laws (plural, even at the federal level) are not being followed, and you're correct. New laws will not change the fact that people circumvent laws.

#9 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 11:57 AM | Reply

"New laws will not change the fact that people circumvent laws."

So hey, let's not do anything, try anything to prevent mass murders. Just business as usual. Good NRA puppet.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2017-11-13 12:05 PM | Reply

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#8 What I hear you arguing is that additional laws would be ineffective because current laws (plural, even at the federal level) are not being followed, and you're correct. New laws will not change the fact that people circumvent laws.

#9 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

What you CHOOSE to hear.

The reality is that reporting standards are both loose and ambiguous. That's the issue with the law.

New, more tailored laws would change that fact.

#11 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-13 12:10 PM | Reply

Okay....tell you what I'm going to do (you clearly haven't searched the archives for my prior recommendations on gun control)...

I'm going to start a new thread that is just Retorter recommendations for "new, more tailored laws" and a spirited debate over the intended and unintended consequences of those laws.

#12 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 12:16 PM | Reply

It's the Air Force who didn't flag this guy. There's what failed right there.

I still say, taking MY weapons would not have helped this situations. Banning or restricting the purchase of rifles isn't going to help situations like this.

#13 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-13 12:42 PM | Reply

#8 What I hear you arguing is that additional laws would be ineffective because current laws (plural, even at the federal level) are not being followed, and you're correct. New laws will not change the fact that people circumvent laws.
#9 | Posted by MUSTANG

When the internet came around, there were some existing laws but these laws were insufficient to handle numerous problems like cyber stalking, sharing of child pornography, identity theft, etc.

So we passed numerous new laws.

So yes even though OLD laws still applied, new technology and new appreciations of current reality justified new laws.

#14 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-13 12:43 PM | Reply

I still say, taking MY weapons would not have helped this situations.
#13 | POSTED BY BOAZ

I still say, taking Boaz's weapons will save countless people from future Boaz.

#15 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-13 01:14 PM | Reply

Simple answer is 'clerical error', just like cases where someone in prison is mistakenly released. People do screw up in all walks of life; both personal and in business etc.

#16 | Posted by MSgt at 2017-11-13 01:52 PM | Reply

Hey now the army recinded Obama's ban on people with known serious mental disorders joining the army. How could training someone with bipolar disorder how to be a more effective marksman cause any problems?

#17 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-13 01:56 PM | Reply

problems like stalking, sharing of child pornography, identity theft, etc.

..and yet you cited three problems which were already crimes and for which there were already laws. Stalking, child porn, and identity theft were against the law before the internet came around. At least your reference to the internet implies that you understand that because of the internet, there were changes to the way those three crimes could be committed. Laws were therefore updated to reflect those changes.

Unfortunately for your argument, there is no similar change to firearms and therefore the laws have not had to be updated. A semiautomatic rifle in 2017 operates in exactly the same way a semiautomatic rifle operated 100 years ago. The modern box magazine was invented in 1908. The Model 1911 pistol is still being manufactured, and the model number is the year of introduction. Can I mail order a rifle or order a firearm over the internet? Yes, but laws already exist requiring those purchases be delivered to an FFL, who must submit the background check. Can I think of common sense legislation that I could support that would not violate the 2nd Amendment? Yes, I could...but those are not the solutions being proffered by liberals and even my ideas carry a light taint of "only the rich will have firearms".

#18 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 02:27 PM | Reply

"I still say, taking MY weapons would not have helped this situations.
#13 | POSTED BY BOAZ"

Okay.
How about taking ALL weapons?

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 02:39 PM | Reply

Lets take all the drugs while we're at it. We do awesome at keeping those out, we can definitely do the same for firearms.

#20 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 02:40 PM | Reply

Let's move all the goalposts while we're at it!

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 02:43 PM | Reply

#20 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Because firearms can totally be synthesized in a garage like drugs.

#22 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-13 03:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Because firearms can totally be synthesized in a garage like drugs.

#22 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2017-11-13 03:08 PM | REPLY

They can. You can 3d print them now, along with high cap magazines.

Arguably it's easier to make the gun. Milling is easier than chemistry.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 03:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

#21 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-11-13 02:43 PM | FLAG:

That's not a goal post, that's a realistic look at confiscation efforts performed by US law enforcement. Any reasonable person will note the vast violence in the war on drugs. A national confiscation program for firearms would be drastically more violent, like a low grade civil war. That's assuming you can even get sheriffs to go along, which you can't outside of cities.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 03:18 PM | Reply

#23 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

And I bet you think methamphetamine is truly the same as Adderall, right?

#25 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-13 03:24 PM | Reply

Because firearms can totally be synthesized in a garage like drugs.

#22 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2017-11-13 03:08 PM | FLAG:

The Cartel's Gunsmiths

Courtesy of Vice. They make AR-15 lowers in a random garage in Mexico. They can very easily move them over our border using their existing distribution channels.

What are you going to do, build a wall? lol

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 03:29 PM | Reply

#25 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2017-11-13 03:24 PM | FLAG:

Again, milling is easier than chemistry. You won't even explode like a failed meth attempt.

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 03:30 PM | Reply

#27 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Milling isn't cheaper though. The notion that firearms shouldn't be made illegal because they can be made in garages is laughable.

#28 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-13 03:38 PM | Reply

#22/#23 The world's most popular firearm (1 out of every 5 firearms in the world) is notable not only for the number produced, but also for the fact that it is almost entirely made of stamped parts. You don't even need to mill much. It's a design the Russians borrowed from the Germans.

#29 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 03:44 PM | Reply

The notion that firearms shouldn't be made illegal because they can be made in garages is laughable.

#28 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

It's but one of a multitude.

Reality is making firearms illegal cannot happen unless the 2nd is repealed and not nearly enough of a consensus exists to repeal the 2nd.

I personally think it's pointless to discuss something that can never happen.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-13 03:44 PM | Reply

#28 Google "build an AK-47 from scratch", fire up the YouTube machine, and prepare to be shocked.

#31 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 03:46 PM | Reply

It's legal for me to make AR-15s at hone?

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-13 03:47 PM | Reply

#32 Check your local laws.

#33 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 03:50 PM | Reply

..and yet you cited three problems which were already crimes and for which there were already laws. Stalking, child porn, and identity theft were against the law before the internet came around. At least your reference to the internet implies that you understand that because of the internet, there were changes to the way those three crimes could be committed. Laws were therefore updated to reflect those changes.
Unfortunately for your argument, there is no similar change to firearms and therefore the laws have not had to be updated. A semiautomatic rifle in 2017 operates in exactly the same way a semiautomatic rifle operated 100 years ago. The modern box magazine was invented in 1908. The Model 1911 pistol is still being manufactured, and the model number is the year of introduction. Can I mail order a rifle or order a firearm over the internet? Yes, but laws already exist requiring those purchases be delivered to an FFL, who must submit the background check. Can I think of common sense legislation that I could support that would not violate the 2nd Amendment? Yes, I could...but those are not the solutions being proffered by liberals and even my ideas carry a light taint of "only the rich will have firearms".

#18 | Posted by MUSTANG

your argument is nonsense

there are new (and unregulated) ways of procuring guns (private sales, gun shows). There are new ways of manufacturing guns (3D printers). There is a new understanding of mental health issues. There is an increasing awareness of the link between domestic violence, mental health issues, substance abuse and gun violence. There is an increasing awareness of the link between suicide and access to guns. So yes updating laws and creating new laws is very appropriate

#34 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-13 03:53 PM | Reply

Anyone that poses with a gun, for any reason, should have their file flagged.
Especially if that person posts it on social media.

It goes back to the days when dudes would pose with their M60 with the blank adapter on it. I never understood that, in particular, and posing with a gun in general.

I like to hunt. I enjoy plinking. I can appreciate a nice firearm, but still use a 60's era semi auto 16 gauge.

#35 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-11-13 03:57 PM | Reply

Milling isn't cheaper though. The notion that firearms shouldn't be made illegal because they can be made in garages is laughable.

#28 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2017-11-13 03:38 PM | REPLY

It is. At lowers cost less than a half ounce of weed. I saw an ar milled on a cheap drill press, and billets are cheaper than drug precursors. Making them illegal won't have any impact on the war on drugs, which is the overwhelming majority of firearm crime.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-13 04:09 PM | Reply

#34
there are new (and unregulated) ways of procuring guns (private sales, gun shows)

do you realize how stupid calling private sales and gun shows "new" is?

There is a new understanding of mental health issues.

Meriweather Lewis killed himself during a depression. Thomas Jefferson noted so.

There is an increasing awareness of the link between suicide and access to guns.

Well by all means, make it illegal to kill yourself.

#37 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-13 05:38 PM | Reply

Mustangs point is really simple. We should do absolutely nothing. Just let it keep happening.

#38 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-13 05:56 PM | Reply

your argument is nonsense
there are new (and unregulated) ways of procuring guns (private sales, gun shows).

#34 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2017-11-13 03:53 PM | FLAG:

You say his argument is nonsense, then your first sentence contains either an intentional lie, or unintentional misinformation.

#39 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-14 07:15 AM | Reply

New, more tailored laws would change that fact.

#11 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

So yes updating laws and creating new laws is very appropriate

#34 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Like?

#38 His point is simple apparently you missed it. I'll restate it because I agree with him ......ENFORCE the laws already on the books.... Accomplish that first.

#40 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-11-14 11:32 AM | Reply

......ENFORCE the laws already on the books.... Accomplish that first.

#40 | POSTED BY PINKYANTHEBRAIN AT 2017-11-14 11:32 AM

That is the problem. The laws already on the books have gaps and flaws that need to be fixed. Enforcing a law with a loophole does not close the loophole. IT IS PART OF THE LAW

#41 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-14 03:48 PM | Reply

The laws already on the books have gaps and flaws that need to be fixed. Enforcing a law with a loophole does not close the loophole. IT IS PART OF THE LAW

#41 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

What loophole concerns you the most?

#42 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-11-14 04:55 PM | Reply

You won't get an answer that is based in reality.

#43 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-11-14 04:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

The loophole that Prohibits the Government from collecting any real data and masks the scale of the problems

The loophole that allows one person to stockpile an arsenal without raising any red flags

The loophole that allows People to plan attacks and acquire the weaponry in secrecy

The loophole that requires records be destroyed so it is harder to sse the red flags that are there

#44 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-14 05:50 PM | Reply

Until he fired the first shot at another human everything the Las Vegas shooter did was within the law.

The laws havre holes big enough for a Las Vegas Massacre

#45 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-14 05:52 PM | Reply

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