Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, November 09, 2017

The easiest way to avoid getting hooked on opioids may be to never take them in the first place. After all, an initial prescription of just a few days' worth of pills can trap patients into using the highly addictive, often deadly drugs for a year or more. But despite the dangers, many patients don't have the luxury of passing on potent pain killers -- for instance, those stumbling into a hospital emergency room with a broken or badly bloodied limb. At least, that's what doctors assumed. In a randomized, double-blind clinical trial -- the gold standard of trials -- a combination of ibuprofen (Advil) and acetaminophen (Tylenol) was just as effective at treating patients with acute pain in an extremity as three other pain-killer combinations containing opioids. The authors of the study, which was published Tuesday in JAMA, suggest that emergency room doctors may be able to simply skip the opioids during and after urgent treatment.

Advertisement

Advertisement

More

Alternate links: Google News | Twitter

The authors of the new trial, led by Andrew Chang of Albany Medical College in New York, note that common medical practice and guidelines, including those championed by the World Health Organization, suggest that opioids are simply more effective at treating acute pain than non-opioid medications -- or combinations of them. Yet, the data backing that is shaky.

Ibuprofen and acetaminophen have completely different molecular activities in the central nervous system and brain -- offering a one-two punch to pain when used in combination. Researchers haven't done the work to show that the duo are knocked out by opioids in terms of treating extreme pain in a limb. But a handful of studies on dental and post-operative patients clearly indicated that non-opioid drug pairs were just as effective. The studies compared a combination of ibuprofen and acetaminophen to a combo of codeine and acetaminophen and found that no codeine-containing treatment -- regardless of the dose -- beat out the non-opioid blend.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Naturally, addicts disagreed with the results of the study.

#1 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-11-08 02:24 PM | Reply

i call BS. ...and i disagree.

#2 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-11-08 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

stupid fake drugwars.

#3 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-11-08 02:36 PM | Reply

I disagree as well.

#4 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-08 02:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Drug addiction is a real thing. I don't know direct experiance, but it seems that opioids and amphetamines are not to be taken lightly.

#5 | Posted by visitor_ at 2017-11-08 02:45 PM | Reply

I've taken one pain pill each time I've ever been given them. They put me to sleep.
I don't understand how anyone stays awake long enough to abuse them.

I'm not an Advil or Tylenol guy either. I will take that Alka-seltzer cold and flu stuff when I get a cold. That stuff knocks me out.

#6 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-11-08 02:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Given=prescribed

#7 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-11-08 02:49 PM | Reply

but it seems that opioids and amphetamines are not to be taken lightly.

#5 | Posted by visitor_

I think lightly is the best way to take them because when you take them heavily that is how you get addicted.

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-08 02:50 PM | Reply

I'll have to read the study.

I had surgery on my hand a few months ago and I can tell you the vicodin helped considerably whereas the advil I was taking before (I was trying to see if I could avoid opioids) didn't do much at all.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-08 02:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

These types of studies are becoming quite popular now that overdose is the leading cause of death for Americans under 50.

I read one a couple weeks ago that showed caffeine with acetaminophen is sightly less effective than codeine in treating dental pain, while being slightly better at reducing swelling.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-08 02:57 PM | Reply

Advertisement

Advertisement

JPW. Just curious, were you taking Rx levels of Advil or the lower OTC dosage?

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-08 03:00 PM | Reply


@#8 ... I can tell you the vicodin helped considerably whereas the advil I was taking before (I was trying to see if I could avoid opioids) didn't do much at all. ...

The key seems to be ibuprofen (Advil) and acetaminophen (Tylenol) taken in combination, not either one by itself.

The full article is worth a read, it does a pretty deep dive.

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-11-08 04:32 PM | Reply

JPW. Just curious, were you taking Rx levels of Advil or the lower OTC dosage?

I was taking 400mg per dose, so sub-Rx levels.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-08 04:54 PM | Reply

#12 | Posted by LampLighter

Looks like I needed a standard extra strength Tylenol dose.

I'll have to remember this in the future as I was under the impression that mixing the two was bad for the liver/stomach.

In any case, I've come to enjoy that site immensely for science news after someone pushed it a while back.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-08 05:03 PM | Reply

ibuprofen is bad for your kidneys; acetaminophen is bad for your liver.

opium, coca, cannabis... are organic, natural, as well.

all of it should be cheaply available to adults in stores -- Advil and Tylenol.

#15 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-11-08 06:29 PM | Reply

alternating...i heard, not mixing. --still doesn't work much.
teeth (ibuprofen) and fevers.

#16 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-11-08 06:31 PM | Reply

In my experience, and more importantly in clinical observations, ibuprofen is quite effective at managing dental pain.

But there's also the perception issue; where the patient is expecting a lot of pain, and so they're expecting something more than just a double dose of what they can buy over the counter.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-08 07:30 PM | Reply

#17 I'll second the ibuprofen and dental pain efficacy. So much so I waited too long on having something done until it was too late.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-08 07:48 PM | Reply

#17 yes, and my dr doesn't want me binging on ibupropen. besides, i WANT the pills, i even tell them which one (of two) to give me.

...the whole thing is a sick joke. i should be able to grow the stuff myself...or at least buy it at 7/11.

vices are not crimes. or "hurting oneself" is no crime. killing oneself should be no crime.

#19 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-11-08 09:41 PM | Reply


@#17 ... But there's also the perception issue; ...

Hence the need for double-blind randomized studies.

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-11-08 09:42 PM | Reply


@#14 ... In any case, I've come to enjoy that site immensely for science news after someone pushed it a while back. ...

Maybe this message?
www.drudge.com

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-11-08 09:45 PM | Reply

"Hence the need for double-blind randomized studies."

Oh for sure. But, what I was getting at is, that might sway clinicians, but it won't go as far to sway patients.

We just need to establish the standard prescribed remedy for most routine dental pain is non-narcotic.

If ibuprofen weren't available OTC people might still think they were getting the good stuff.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-08 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hydrocodone is mostly Tylenol, so, um, "best" of both worlds?

#23 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-11-09 12:45 PM | Reply

Ibuprofen and tylenol are nsaids. They work by combating inflamation. They have almost no effect whatsoever on nerve pain. opioids work within the brain and affect almost all types of pain. Different types of pain require different methods of treatment.

#24 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-09 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm awaiting back surgery and up until 6 months ago was taking up to 15 robax platinum(ibuprofen) a day...my liver was suffering so the doc gave me percocet(5/35)now I only need 1.5 tabs a day to get better pain relief than I was getting while I was ruining my liver...and no jonesing for a dose even if I forget them at home and go to the lake for a few days...just pain.

#25 | Posted by ghoti at 2017-11-09 01:18 PM | Reply

"robax platinum"

Sounds like a new car model with the optional fancy package.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-09 01:37 PM | Reply

Stop trying to pretend all pain is the same ans all pain killers are the same. It took 3 years of trying different combinations of meds to get my wife's pain to a manageable level without turning her into a zombie. She takes opioids daily but is not high or doped up. She runs a successful business. The laws passed recently in the effort to cobat addiction have done nothing except make my wife jump through more hoops and spend more money while not affecting the abundance of cheap heroin available to the people who are not playing by the rules

#27 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-09 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3


@#24 Ibuprofen and tylenol are nsaids. They work by combating inflamation.

What is ibuprofen?
www.drugs.com

Ibuprofen is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). It works by reducing hormones that cause inflammation and pain in the body....

What is acetaminophen?
https://www.drugs.com/acetaminophen.html

Acetaminophen is a pain reliever and a fever reducer.

Acetaminophen is used to treat many conditions such as headache, muscle aches, arthritis, backache, toothaches, colds, and fevers....


I don't see acetaminophen on this list of NSAIDs:
https://www.medicinenet.com/nonsteroidal_antiinflammatory_drugs/article.htm

Are you sure it is a NSAID?

It appears that in addition to reducing inflammation and fever, they also reduces pain.

#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-11-09 01:44 PM | Reply

NSAIDs reduce pain caused by inflammation they have little or no effect on pain related to other causes.

You are correct Tylenol is not classified as an NSAID but It is hypothesized that acetaminophen may inhibit COX enzymes, similar to the way NSAIDs work, but without the anti-inflammatory component. Tylenol typical has a lower effect on inflammatory pain than NSAIDs. Acetaminophen may act by several different mechanisms, but the exact mechanisms have still not been defined.

The best drug for nerve pain is actually novacaine but it is highly localized and short acting so it has to be administered very close to the affected nerve and wears off quickly. Epidurals and some surgical blocks are injections of novacaine directly into nerve bundles or in the case of an epidural, the spinal fluid.

We are hoping cannibis oil becomes available in Wisconsin soon. It is already approved for a very limited set of medical uses but we are hoping it may be a viable alternative to opioids. Until the legislature acts they can't even properly research it though so it is at best several years away

#29 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-09 02:41 PM | Reply


@#29 ... the exact mechanisms have still not been defined. ...

I like it when I read those types of phrases in medical literature....

~...It works, but we don't know why...~

#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-11-09 03:17 PM | Reply

re# 27

I love all the "pain" experts here who think they understand pain.

I get migraines and I will tell you Tylenol is crap and doesn't even dent a migraine (too much over long periods are bad for your liver) aspirin is not good for your stomach over long periods and also does not even dent a migraine. Oxy will dent it and enough Oxy will stop it but also can put you "offline". Vicodin will dent it. Codeine (Fiorinal) will dent it (but only take the edge off). But all those are addicting. But, understand this as Hatter said, (obviously he has experience dealing will real pain), addiction is just a side affect one can manage if it really does reduce the pain to a level where one can function normally.

Also, Oxy was designed for end of life pain relief treatment. It was the pharmaceuticals that pushed it for everything else.

But, if you are retired and Oxy makes your life bearable and livable again who really cares if it is addicting?

What we are actually trying to stop is having so much of it on the streets. But, realize of course, that if they cannot get oxy they will just get something else. When you squeeze the balloon it just pops out somewhere else. The Oxy epidemic is just a symptom of a much larger problem.

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-09 04:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ibuprofen is actually very good, until it starts upsetting your stomach. A minor side effect compared to tar pitch constipation associated with Oxycontin. Acetaminophen on the other hand has no pain relieving effect whatsoever. Why hospitals are so keen to push its placebo effect is beyond me. One study just warrants another study.

#32 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-11-09 05:44 PM | Reply

I guess the fact that Acetaminophen is toxic to you organs and Ibuprophen can trigger heart attacks and strokes just isn't that important. I been to pain management clinics, and you can see those people are in pain, and most of them you can see why. Constantly taking over-the-counter medication for it is not a good idea.

#31, if you get migraines you need a rizatriptan or sumatriptan paired with naproxen if the over the counter pain medications won't stop it. Sometimes bendryl will help. The latter is what most E.R.s often give you.

#33 | Posted by LEgregius at 2017-11-09 07:45 PM | Reply

Re 33

I use triptans. Over the counter stuff won't even dent it unless I use overdose levels. When I have really awful ones I sometimes go to my clinic and get a shot of Demerol. Once (years ago) it took three shots just to get the pain to a manageable level as I have a high tolerance to pain meds. I now use several methods which includes medications (including cannabis) and MBSR (meditation). I can "defeat" them now in 30-40 minutes (if I can lay down) where in the past I could only wait them out and they would only be completely gone after I had slept for 8 hours. I have not tried Benadryl... may have to try that someday to see how effective it is for me.

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-09 09:15 PM | Reply

I've only been given prescription pain killers twice in my life by a doctor and one of them made me sick so I didn't take it more than once. So I'm definitely not addicted to pills and I still call total BS on this study. Over the counter stuff does almost nothing for acute pain. I once had a foot injury that necessitated the removal of a toenail using something that like pliers (it grew back) and to say the doctor could have given me Advil for that is laughable.

#35 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-10 11:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Over the counter stuff does almost nothing for acute pain. "

That's a matter of degree.
When I broke my arm, morphine did almost nothing for acute pain.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:18 AM | Reply

"I still call total BS on this study."

Not for any sort of scientifically meaningful reason, such as a problem with the study design, right?

Because you don't agree with what it says, right?

------- Right-Wingers.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:19 AM | Reply

Not for any sort of scientifically meaningful reason, such as a problem with the study design, right?
Because you don't agree with what it says, right?
------- Right-Wingers.

#37 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-11-10 11:19 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Why do you even bother being this dishonest drama queen? The next time you fool anyone will be the first. Yet, you make a fool of yourself every day. You have real issues, dude.

I'm not a "right winger". And my disagreement is based on practical experience. How do you think they measure whether something works for relieving pain? They ask people. There is no other way to gauge the pain someone is feeling. So everyone's personal experience is just as valid as any feedback they used for this study.

Having had a painful injury in an extremity I know for a fact that an opioid was able to relieve the acute pain to a level Advil would never manage. You may not like this fact but your claim that my experience is somehow invalid is not "scientific". It is just you being the fundamentally dishonest tool that you are.

#38 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-10 11:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You may not like this fact but your claim that my experience is somehow invalid is not "scientific"."

One anecdote is not a valid basis from which to form a scientific opinion in the first place. You're acting like you don't know that. Time to change your diaper.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:32 AM | Reply

Seriously? Is this how bad medical research has become? I guess they can't cure cancer so they have to try to prove they are doing something useful. All this article states, and backs up, is that tolerable pain can be handled with OTCs but anyone who didn't have tolerable pain still needed a pharm. Wow, big reveal there.

#40 | Posted by humtake at 2017-11-10 11:42 AM | Reply

"So everyone's personal experience is just as valid as any feedback they used for this study."

No, that's not how it works.

Everyone's personal experience, in aggregate, carries a much greater weight than any one of those individual personal experiences.

This is also how polling works. The more responses you get, the closer to a true measure you get.

I mistook your mere scientific illiteracy for the deliberate cloistering of the right-wing mind. They are born from the same faulty way of thinking.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:43 AM | Reply

"I guess they can't cure cancer"

I guess you're ignorant of the significant advances in both curing and treating cancer in the past thirty years.

Are you also Not A Right Winger, Just A Guy Who Doesn't Put Much Stock In Science They Disagree With? Third Party Voter perhaps?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:45 AM | Reply

One anecdote is not a valid basis from which to form a scientific opinion in the first place. You're acting like you don't know that. Time to change your diaper.

#39 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-11-10 11:32 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Of course it is. If a study makes a claim that you an observe to be untrue then you can go ahead and say you disagree. Many studies have been disproved by observable reality outside a lab.

And in this case the subjective element can't be removed from the study. Because no matter what else they did, they still had to rely on subjects of the study to approximate the pain they were feeling.

Go bite at someone else's ankles, you clown.

#43 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-10 11:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" If a study makes a claim that you an observe to be untrue then you can go ahead and say you disagree."

Sure.
You can say you disagree.
But the way science advances is, you dig up a study, or perform one, which delivers a different result.
If people just sat around saying studies they don't agree with are --------, we'd all be Republicans, and there wouldn't be any need for science.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 11:57 AM | Reply

Are you sure it is a NSAID?

It appears that in addition to reducing inflammation and fever, they also reduces pain.

#28 | Posted by LampLighter

Oddly enough, medicine doesn't really have a good grasp on the mechanism by which acetaminophen works.

I was surprised by the combo usage described in the article because I always thought ibuprofen and acetaminophen were both inhibitors of COX2, but that is incorrect.

And talking to an MD I work with, acetaminophen is not an NSAID.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-10 12:00 PM | Reply

"And in this case the subjective element can't be removed from the study."

This is the case in just about any human subject study, especially ones involving pain.
Do you call them all --------? Or just the ones your gut feeling disagrees with?

This is a write-up of the study I referenced earlier, do you accept the pain reporting of the control group on opiates, but reject the pain reporting of the experimental group on caffeine and acetaminophen? www.drbicuspid.com

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 12:00 PM | Reply

Seriously? Is this how bad medical research has become?

A double blinded study is considered the lowest of the low now?

Blow it out your ass, dude. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

I guess they can't cure cancer ...

Yeah, because it's just a homogenous disease known as "cancer", not a heterogeneous category of diseases related only in that normal cellular processes that control growth are disrupted or lost leading to uninhibited cellular division, a result that can be obtained in literally dozens if not hundreds of ways.

What a twit...

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-10 12:07 PM | Reply

And in this case the subjective element can't be removed from the study. Because no matter what else they did, they still had to rely on subjects of the study to approximate the pain they were feeling.

You don't understand how double blinded studies work, do you?

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-10 12:08 PM | Reply

From a poster named ColdWetDog in the comments section of the original article:

Unfortunately this modestly useful study is going to get completely over interpreted and conflated. Unfortunately, TFA follows along with the vast majority of articles in the press and

1) Over represents the importance, generalizability and power of this study.
2) Conflates acute and chronic pain
3) Fails to make note that, while opiates don't have a stellar track record in chronic pain, neither does anything else
4) is full of sidebar, dramatic quotes that have little to do with the study (opiates are bad, bad and worse).

First, this is a single ER study of MILD pain over a short period of time. There was no placebo (which would be interesting). It studied only 'simple' patients. It basically states that for mild acute pain, lots of things work.

Second, the now-becoming-received-wisdom that even brief exposure to opiates has a high likelihood of triggering dependence is based on really, really crappy evidence. These studies have typically been done retrospectively and with low numbers. It may well be correct but, as we've seen the entire field is full of poor science.

Then to jump into the complex issues of chronic pain really does a disservice to everyone. Although the study has received a lot of lay press, the academic response has been much more tempered (aside from a few docs trying to get their 15 seconds of fame). I would really like to see a better intellectual balance on these sorts of articles - Ars really should be doing better than the NY Post.

#49 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-10 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Conflates acute and chronic pain

Which has been a common occurrence on this thread.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-10 01:00 PM | Reply

This is the case in just about any human subject study, especially ones involving pain.
Do you call them all --------? Or just the ones your gut feeling disagrees with?

#46 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-11-10 12:00 PM | FLAG:

Has nothing to do with a "gut feeling", you disingenuous mope. I disagree with the study because my own experience proves it wrong. All of your posts about me just deciding to disagree with the study are ignorant to what I actually said. That's the most amazing part of your constant ankle biting: Your posts prove that you don't even pay attention to the posts you supposedly disagree with. You just make up crap to be bothered by that has little to do with what was actually said.

Also, if you bothered to read the article, it wasn't that scientific a study in the first place. Of course people are going to report more pain when they first get to an emergency room. They want a doctor to help them. The more severe they make their injury out to be, the less they will have to wait. And of course they are going to report less pain after a doctor has seen them and they have been immobile for a while and had time to calm down. For someone who is so enamored by the "science" behind this ludicrous claim, you sure seem to suck at understanding how science actually works. Hint: The human factor is supposed to be minimized.

#51 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-10 01:45 PM | Reply

My first mentor out of college got ahold of me and did his best to shave the rough edges off as best he could. One of the most memorable morsels of wisdom was: The more you get into the politics of a situation, the less of a scientist you become. It was his roundabout way of telling me to focus on the analysis at hand and let upper management worry about the political perception.

#52 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-10 03:10 PM | Reply

I disagree with the study because my own experience proves it wrong.

Your individual experiences do nothing of the sort.

I find most people's views of science are how they think an electron exists. They envision this concrete point that can definitively be called an "electron" when in reality it's simply a cloud of probabilities.

That's more or less how science works. It's rarely the concrete, definitive point most people want it to be but is usually a cloud of a few to many spectrum.

For someone who is so enamored by the "science" behind this ludicrous claim, you sure seem to suck at understanding how science actually works.

Says the guy who wrote "because my own experience proves it wrong".

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-10 04:08 PM | Reply

I had a tooth extracted this week and have been taking hydrocodone. In complete honesty, the hydrocodone has the same effect in terms of reducing the pain for me as 3 advil.

#54 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-11-10 04:11 PM | Reply

I had a tooth extracted this week and have been taking hydrocodone. In complete honesty, the hydrocodone has the same effect in terms of reducing the pain for me as 3 advil.

#54 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-11-10 04:11 PM

Ok. That is your individual experience. How does that extrapolate to someone with a different body chemistry experiencing from a different source?

No experience of one person can be used as evidence of what another person feels or experiences.

Different body chemistry
Different pain causes
Different pain paths
Different brain chemistry
Different metabolic rates
Different absorption rates

One person may get complete relief from one OTC Tylenol where another may get no relief from any amount of tylenol

I personally respond atavistically to benadryl. Most people get drowsy from benadryl. It works better than caffeine for me.

If low doses of mild pain killers work for you, then be glad you are so lucky but don't try to say nobody needs more

#55 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-10 05:33 PM | Reply

Anyone who has experienced severe pain on and off opoids knows what total BS this article is.

#56 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-11-10 05:40 PM | Reply

I bought an ounce rather than take hydromorphone plus three pills to poop.

Actually I did use the hydromorphone, just far less than prescribed.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-10 05:44 PM | Reply

I'm so old school that my first choice is acetylsalicylic acid for short term and if a longer term, such as overnight, I go with naproxen sodium tablets. Never liked the feeling I get when on prescription ones such as hydrocodone and when placed on for major pain, I've never finished the number given because as soon as I could get by with my over-the-contrer pain relievers I switch to them. Just cannot imaging someone actually wanting opioids.

#58 | Posted by MSgt at 2017-11-10 06:21 PM | Reply

I recently had a massive kidney stone attack. Of course the first thing I took was a Tylenol, not knowing at first what the pain was. Didn't touch the pain even slightly. What did the trick -- and really conked me out, giving me a chance to have some pain-free sleep until I could have the stones blasted in the morning -- was the opioids. Wonderfull stuff. I can see why they addicting: THEY WORK. If they didn't work, they wouldn't be addicting. This article is BS.

#59 | Posted by MarcNBarrett at 2017-11-10 06:33 PM | Reply

#59 Pain free sleep
Article is BS

I totally agree with both statements.

I've had gout in my knees and feet at the same time and once I broke my heel bone in half.Pain , I thought I had pain before, but I had no idea what pain was. To be able to sleep was the only relief.

#60 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-11-10 07:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This article is complete rubbish

#61 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-11-10 07:32 PM | Reply

Trash article, the next time you have a burn patient of a bullet wound to the gut, try and not use narcotics. There is a level of pain that the OTC drugs do not touch. I love narcotics when I pass a kidney stone. Are narcotics over used? Yes, Do they have legitimate use? Yes.

#62 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-11 10:27 AM | Reply

"the next time you have a burn patient of a bullet wound to the gut, try and not use narcotics"

Opioids are indicated there.
But not when you get a tooth pulled.
This isn't difficult to comprehend, unless you don't want to.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-11 11:39 AM | Reply

63 | Posted by snoofy Perhaps when one tooth is pulled, but how about four wisdom teeth? There has been a fad in dentistry to make procedures painless, hell, up through the 30s it was common to give patients heroin tablets after a procedure, Laudanum before that. Face it, Doctors in America are pill happy, because that is what their patients want.

#64 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-11 02:48 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2017 World Readable

Drudge Retort