Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, October 31, 2017

Around 3:25 pm Eastern time Tuesday, a truck drove into a pedestrian and bike path in Lower Manhattan in New York City. The New York Police Department confirmed "several fatalities" and "numerous people injured." The truck continued along the path until it hit another vehicle, at which point the suspect got out of the truck bearing imitation firearms, according to the police. The suspect was then shot by authorities and is now in custody, police say. "Based on the information we have so far, this was an act of terror," New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said at a press conference hours after the attack.

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At least six dead and 11 injured now.

#1 | Posted by cbob at 2017-10-31 04:41 PM | Reply

We know. I can't say it. But you know...

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-31 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

ISIS would like to remind everyone that the perp was a non-paid worker, more of a coffee boy really.

#3 | Posted by bored at 2017-10-31 05:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 7

Fake guns. Gun control must have worked.

#4 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-31 05:11 PM | Reply

Thank god it wasnt a maniac with firearms.

#5 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-31 05:30 PM | Reply

Imagine if he had real guns when he stepped out of the truck and started yelling "allahu ackbar"

Thankfully they were fake ones!

#6 | Posted by klifferd at 2017-10-31 05:37 PM | Reply

Man with truck: 6 dead

Man with guns: 59 dead

#7 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-31 05:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 10

In all seriousness, the only reason I can think of that this kook would brandish fake weapons was he was hoping for suicide by cop.

Thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families.

#8 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-10-31 05:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We know. I can't say it. But you know...

#2 | Posted by boaz

Yeah we know. If a brown guy runs people over, it's immediately terrorism. If a white guy does it...well let's not jump to any conclusions.

After all, there are a bunch of VERY FINE PEOPLE among white terrorists.

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Fake guns. Gun control must have worked.

#4 | Posted by boaz

Actually it did. If they were real, more people would be dead.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

That's why I said that. You don't need to take my guns..

#12 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-31 06:00 PM | Reply

We know. I can't say it. But you know...

You right wingers always want something to be called terrorism the instant the news breaks. You take pride in declaring a fact before any facts are in.

If it turns out to be some white guy, he's just a deranged loner with mental problems.

If this attacker is a terrorist, he could be a deranged loner too. Islamists find marginal people to rope into their cause for suicide attacks.

But that doesn't matter, of course. Only the white guys are called out for mental problems. White people get to be judged as individuals even when they commit acts of mass murder.

#13 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-31 06:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

But that doesn't matter, of course. Only the white guys are called out for mental problems. White people get to be judged as individuals even when they commit acts of mass murder.

#13 | Posted by rcade

And white drug addiction is a national emergency, while black drug addiction results in private prisons and the drug war.

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 06:21 PM | Reply

White people[MEN] get to be judged as individuals

The very essence of White[MALE] Privilege is to be judged as an individual.

#15 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-10-31 06:22 PM | Reply

because he yells allahu ackbar...it's terrorism?

#16 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-10-31 06:22 PM | Reply

So far 2 people have jumped on Boaz for bringing up race, & they're the only ones who have brought up race.

#17 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2017-10-31 06:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

I like Americans who don't stand in the way of a truck!

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-31 06:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#12 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Everytime you spew hate or attempt to deliberately spread falsities on this site I'm more convinced we do.

Some trumpish conduit on MSNBC is claiming this is the largest terrorist attack of the year.

To which I say; Vegas?

#19 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-31 06:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

He's from Uzbekistan?

#20 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-31 06:31 PM | Reply

I'll say this then, this act was on the individual. Agree?

#21 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-31 06:31 PM | Reply

So far 2 people have jumped on Boaz for bringing up race ...

I didn't say Boaz brought up race. I said he declared a fact before any facts were in.

#22 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-31 06:32 PM | Reply

Fox has their panties in a bunch because the term, "Lone wolf," has been used to describe a brown Muslin attack.

#23 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-31 06:36 PM | Reply

De Blasio is calling it terror - www.cnn.com

#24 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 06:38 PM | Reply

(I don't even know if he's brown, btw, that hasn't been reported)

Side note: ZERO Manafort coverage today. One wonders if the Alex Jones crew is going to raise the false flag up the pole today...

#25 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-31 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In all seriousness, the only reason I can think of that this kook would brandish fake weapons was he was hoping for suicide by cop.
#8 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

I had that thought but then I also though that perhaps someone else put him up to the the attack and gave him the fake weapons. Then I came up with this mostly baseless conspiracy theory.

The White House has been desperate to change the media narrative to something besides the Mueller investigation. We know that the Feds have in other cases provided fake explosives in sting operations to potential attackers. Perhaps they gave some fake guns to some dupe the FBI was working? They just didn't count on this idiot to turn up a bike path (or maybe they did).

#26 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-10-31 06:40 PM | Reply

No conspiracy, the current story is that he acted alone, but it is considered a terrorist attack because, "Allahu akbar..."

#27 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-31 06:40 PM | Reply

- Alex Jones crew is going to raise the false flag up the pole today...

That flag is flying every day.

#28 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 06:43 PM | Reply

I somehow doubt it will rise today. He's good buddies with the guy who stands most to gain from this being in the news all day.

#29 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-31 06:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#29 | Posted by chuffy Apparently he got shot in the posterior and lived so we can all hear his motivation murdering 6 and injuring several others from the individual himself. But the "Allah Akbar" thing is sort of a dead giveaway. On the subject of terrorist attacks, In Los Vegas, where did the suspect's laptop's hard drive go? Why have the police erased everyone's phone images? Who was he sharing the room with? Why can't the police get the timeline straight? Honestly, this guy's habits and lifestyle mirrors a gun runner. Gambling to launder money, lots of cash, several homes and a couple of airplanes. Maybe he was selling guns and got burned(killed) a few minutes before the shooting started, remember the cops didn't get to his room for about 40 minutes. Plus no one actually saw him shooting. Then from audio analysis, he would have to move from one window to another in less than 3.5 seconds. The more facts you read about this, the stranger it gets.

#30 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-31 07:39 PM | Reply

On the subject of terrorist attacks, In Los Vegas, where did the suspect's laptop's hard drive go? Why have the police erased everyone's phone images?

#30 | Posted by docnjo

Please share the link to that info so we can all laugh your gullibility.

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 07:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Guy runs into people with a truck killing six.

Sad day for the friends and family of those individuals.

May they find peace.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-31 08:17 PM | Reply

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
Please share the link of what firearms and ammunition were used. How many were killed by firearms with what caliber and what rifle.
#27 | Posted by chuffy
If he didn't say Alla whatever it would be angry an Trump supporter according to the left.

#33 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-31 08:17 PM | Reply

"because he yells allahu ackbar...it's terrorism?"

If it had been a white guy driving into an abortion clinic shouting "Praise Jesus" would it be terrorism? I'd say yes in both cases.

#34 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-10-31 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#33 | Posted by Federalist

I wasn't talking to you dumbass. I was asking DOCJO to provide links to his vegas conspiracies.

Now don't you look like an idiot?

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 08:43 PM | Reply

There's another reason to take away the right to drive.

#36 | Posted by Ray at 2017-10-31 08:52 PM | Reply

using the term "terrorism" implies a political connection. The most prolific killer in history, a few of which killed several hundred, could not be counted as terrorists because they weren't using violence as a means of supporting a desired political end-state. That doesn't make them less bad-it probably makes them worse, actually, but you can't really lump Luis Garavito in with Andreas Baader or Ulrike Meinhof.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-31 09:19 PM | Reply

#37 | Posted by madbomber

So if you shoot a hundred people and stay silent youre a crazy person.

If you say "this is for people who hate cilantro!" while you do it, then you're a terrorist.

Is that it?

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 09:24 PM | Reply

I've been busy with Halloween crap, but what little I've seen on the television disturbs me, but obviously I'm only seeing 2% of what happened.

I kind of assumed people would have attacked that guy after hitting the bus and running around. I did see some guy contemplating a run at him, but still....
Even if they knew nothing of the "terror" aspect, I assumed the crowd would have tried to grab the guy.
(I heard a report that the guns looked real, but a real looking paintball gun seems absurd).

I'd have to say the guy looked like he may be crazy. Not fanatical, just crazy. As if he was hoping to be shot or attacked.

#39 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-10-31 09:28 PM | Reply

Trumpers will be all concerned with labeling this crime if they think they can somehow tie Obama or Clinton to it. I'd like to think they'll temporarily pretend NYC is as American to them as the red-state heartland - as tea partiers before them liked to do - and at least go through the motions by doling out some fake sympathy as they wrapping themselves in Old Glory, but this lot is in open contempt of living democrats. And NYC is full of them - the only good democrat New Yorker is a dead democrat New Yorker in their view. Except for Mein Drumpf, of course. From Trump supporters you can expect everything from run of the mill bigotry to fat/slut shaming of the injured/deceased to claiming you're the one doing all that because you're paid by Russians.

But I judge them by their worst behavior, and I'm wrong for doing that. If they were going to wrap themselves in a flag, their better angels would put them in the Stars and Bars.

#40 | Posted by GUNDERFUNK at 2017-10-31 09:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Who farted?

#41 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-10-31 09:46 PM | Reply

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly Actually these are facts released by the LVPD and the Sheriff's Department. I gave no conspiracy, even the LEOs are looking for accomplices.

#42 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-31 09:55 PM | Reply

When is Trump going to start keeping us safe?
Maybe if someone told him governing was like -----, he would finally get a grip.

#43 | Posted by bored at 2017-11-01 01:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

This guy.

ichef.bbci.co.uk

www.bbc.com

#44 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 02:14 AM | Reply

Babatunde Ogunniyi watched in disbelief as a truck revved and sped past him down a cycle path, hitting two people and crashing into a school bus.

At least eight were killed and 11 seriously injured when the white pick-up truck mowed down people in Lower Manhattan on Tuesday afternoon.

Mr Ogunniyi, who is 23 and a computer science student in the area, told the BBC what he saw.

"We were sitting outside of college, and I saw this truck coming, revving and swerving - he was going maybe 60 or 70 mph, in an area where the speed limit is 40 - it's a very congested area with lots of people.

"It hit the two people, I saw it hit them. Then he continued to drive down the walkway and bike lane. It hit a school bus and veered left.

"People started running towards the truck to see what was happening, and then the gun shots went off and everyone ran in the opposite direction.

"It was surreal, I was astonished - no-one really knew what it was, it looked at first like it could been an accident," he explained.

People around him were confused and didn't know what they should do, he says.

"We didn't yet know that the people we saw hit were dead - we didn't know whether to call the authorities or emergency services, or whether we should be trying to seek shelter," he continued.......

www.bbc.com

#45 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 02:15 AM | Reply

Must be those radicalized Christians...

#46 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2017-11-01 02:49 AM | Reply

"Must be those radicalized Christians..."

No, that was the last guy.

And the guy before him.

And the guy before him.

And the guy before him.

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-11-01 02:52 AM | Reply

8 dead by ISIS vs 60 dead by Vegas Christian Guy.

No contest.

#48 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 03:07 AM | Reply

Either way, America is attracting people who want to kill other people, like flies to honey.

Trump Trump! Twitter!

#49 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 03:08 AM | Reply

"If you say "this is for people who hate cilantro!" while you do it, then you're a terrorist. Is that it?"

I would submit that there is a reasonableness litmus test as well. First off, it ridding the world of cilantro a realistically achievable goal? Will mowing down some people in the street influence the availability of cilantro. Most importantly, what is to be gained by the eradication of cilantro?

But yes, that's basically the gist. A serial killer, like Luis Garavito, wasn't killing in order to make a political statement. He was killing because he enjoyed it. That's a pretty profound difference.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-01 08:24 AM | Reply

Muslim with truck kills 8, dotard takes immediate action to blamestorm Democrats.

What a leader.

#51 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-01 08:42 AM | Reply

Lies, lies and more damn lies:

Jeff Flake‏ @JeffFlake

Jeff Flake Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Actually, the Gang of 8, including @SenSchumer, did away with the Diversity Visa Program as part of broader reforms. I know, I was there
5:36 AM - 1 Nov 2017

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

The terrorist came into our country through what is called the "Diversity Visa Lottery Program," a Chuck Schumer beauty. I want merit based.
4:24 AM - 1 Nov 2017

#52 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 09:14 AM | Reply

Trump must have been watching Fox and Friends and tweeting out the fake news they were pedaling. This tweet thread explains the connection and the disinformation:

Matthew Gertz‏ @MattGertz

Trump was tweeting the 7:00 am hour of Fox & Friends in pretty close to real time. Thread chronicling this follows.
5:15 AM - 1 Nov 2017

twitter.com

#53 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 09:31 AM | Reply

Why come every time someone shouts an Islamic terrorist slogan and kills people, a chunk of the DR left's first concern is that he not be called "terrorist" and their 2nd priority is deflecting blame at "white people"?

Ideologues are increasingly sick in the head.

If he turns out to be fair skinned are the Islamofascist coddlers going to ditch him? Stay tuned.......

#54 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 09:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

a real looking paintball gun seems absurd).

#39 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE AT 2017-10-31 09:28 PM | REPLY

It's not at all. The paintball market segmented. The growth of "mil-sim" paintball (which actually is absurd) has led to huge sales of markers designed specifically to look like modern firearms, using detachable magazines and in some cases even sharing accessories with real firearms.

Here's one of hundreds on the market

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 09:53 AM | Reply

After skimming this thread fully... when a white islamic terrorist strikes, the comments are going to be amazing.

#56 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 10:07 AM | Reply

You right wingers always want something to be called terrorism the instant the news breaks.
- -
I didn't say Boaz brought up race. I said he declared a fact before any facts were in.

The attack occurred at 3:05. Boaz posted at 4:55pm. At 4:46, ABC News said it was being investigated as an act of terror. At 5:23, Bill DeBlasio called it an act of terror, based on the MO and the suspect yelling Allahu Akbar. Sounds like Boaz didn't "jump to conclusions", he's just perfectly capable of putting together information he observed in the media to draw the exact same conclusion someone handed to DeBlasio on a notecard a half-hour later.

#57 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 10:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#50 Uzbeks ARE white Islamic terrorists.

#58 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 10:30 AM | Reply

So if you shoot a hundred people and stay silent youre a crazy person.

If you say "this is for people who hate cilantro!" while you do it, then you're a terrorist.

Is that it?

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Yep, pretty much.

#59 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 10:33 AM | Reply

Everytime you spew hate

So. Pointing out the Truth is hate now?

#60 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 10:42 AM | Reply

"Sounds like Boaz didn't "jump to conclusions", he's just perfectly capable of putting together information he observed in the media"

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

If you cry Islamic terrorism after every event then eventually you are bound to be right.

Gratz to bozo. 👏 The odds were in your favor this time.

#61 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-01 10:43 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Hmmm..and I notice that a deranged, retired middle aged white guy, who wasn't a religious ideologue BTW, shoots a bunch of people in Las Vegas, the thread gets 200+ posts.

A Muslim runs over a dozen or so yelling "god is great" and the thread barely gets over 50..

You liberals try too hard to protect Islam.

#62 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 10:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Gratz to bozo. 👏 The odds were in your favor this time.

Well, witnesses said he screamed God is great in Arabic, used a truck to kill innocents like ISIS told him too, yea, it wasn't hard to label this terroristic act. But it seems hard for the Liberals on this site to call a spade a spade.

#63 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 10:47 AM | Reply

You liberals try too hard to protect Islam.

Let me change that. Islam didn't kill those people.

You liberals try to hard too protect certain muslims..

#64 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 10:48 AM | Reply

Re#38 - this is you figuring out that you've been conditioned to make an issue of nothing and in defense of horrible people. "Mass murderer" is not better than "terrorist". People who yell "Admiral Akbar!" during their killings are not being discriminated against. I hope that lifts a weight off your shoulders.

#65 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 10:50 AM | Reply

#50 Uzbeks ARE white Islamic terrorists.

#52 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2017-11-01 10:30 AM | FLAG:

Pretty sure not all Uzbeks are terrorists, and they're actually Turks.

#66 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 10:51 AM | Reply

The attack occurred at 3:05. Boaz posted at 4:55pm. At 4:46, ABC News said it was being investigated as an act of terror. At 5:23, Bill DeBlasio called it an act of terror, based on the MO and the suspect yelling Allahu Akbar. Sounds like Boaz didn't "jump to conclusions", he's just perfectly capable of putting together information he observed in the media to draw the exact same conclusion someone handed to DeBlasio on a notecard a half-hour later.

#51 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

In the real world, we call it "Guessing" when someone doesn't have nearly as many facts as the person making an official announcement.

#67 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 10:52 AM | Reply

You liberals try too hard to protect Islam.

#56 | POSTED BY BOAZ

You Conservatives try too hard to blame Islam.

#68 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 10:53 AM | Reply

Was the Las Vegas shooter shouting "Glory to Jesus" as he was firing?

#69 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 10:54 AM | Reply

Kudos to BLOTUS for presiding over the deadliest terror attack in NYC since Shrub was forced to flee to Nebraska.

#70 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-11-01 10:55 AM | Reply

#60 Yes, I misspoke. Uzbeks are white, not white terrorists, with this one notable exception. Uzbeks are ethnically Uzbeks, although they share genetic traits with Turkmen and Persians.

Q: Where are the Caucasus Mountains (e.g. "Caucasian") located?

A: Between Turkey and Uzbekistan.

#71 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 11:03 AM | Reply

#61 How many more facts do you think DeBlasio had? The police commissioner said very plainly that the MO and Allah Akbar were the indicators they used to determine it was a terrorist attack. Boaz had that information.

#72 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 11:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#61 How many more facts do you think DeBlasio had? The police commissioner said very plainly that the MO and Allah Akbar were the indicators they used to determine it was a terrorist attack. Boaz had that information.

#65 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

You ignored all of the posts like usual. The issue was Boaz didn't have those facts at the time. Honestly why do you waste our time with your posts?

#73 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 11:11 AM | Reply

Where are the Caucasus Mountains (e.g. "Caucasian") located?

#64 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2017-11-01 11:03 AM | FLAG:

Asia.

#74 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 11:11 AM | Reply

I'm so very very confused.

I thought ISIS was going to be defeated in the first 30 days of the Trump presidency.

What happened?

#75 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You right wingers always want something to be called terrorism the instant the news breaks. You take pride in declaring a fact before any facts are in.
#13 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-31 06:11 PM

Snap! Now do one for 'collusion'.

#76 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 11:16 AM | Reply

Were you standing next to him as he was firing?

#77 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 11:21 AM | Reply

And then there was the Freemason in Norway who killed 80 people for his belief system....

#78 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-11-01 11:22 AM | Reply

Now do one for 'collusion'.

#69 | Posted by Avigdore

The indictments are being sealed.

#79 | Posted by Zed at 2017-11-01 11:27 AM | Reply

Was the Las Vegas shooter shouting "Glory to Jesus" as he was firing?

#7 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Does it matter if he was?

Besides, if he was you'd just follow up with "but he's not a real Christian anyway, so it's irrelevant that he's Christian". Right?

At least that's what you guys did with this guy:

en.wikipedia.org

#80 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 11:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You right wingers always want something to be called terrorism the instant the news breaks. You take pride in declaring a fact before any facts are in.
#13 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-31 06:11 PM
Snap! Now do one for 'collusion'.
#69 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

George already did that. Did you miss that?

#81 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 11:31 AM | Reply

Must be those radicalized Christians... - #3 | Posted by Greatamerican
...he's Christian". - #10 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 11:28 AM

Hmm...would the 1st amendment prevent the government from outlawing all religions from being practiced?

#82 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 11:33 AM | Reply

Please guilty to lying to the FBI? No, I didn't miss that.

#83 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 11:35 AM | Reply

plead

#84 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 11:35 AM | Reply

You liberals try too hard to protect Islam.
Let me change that. Islam didn't kill those people.
You liberals try to hard too protect certain muslims..

#58 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Nope... you got it right the first time. We protect Islam. Because it is a religion that has a wide variety of followers. A very small percentage are extremists and commit acts of violence and terror. Not one liberal is condoning what this guy did. Whether what this guy did is terrorism or not does not change whether what he did was a horrific act. Your insistence on calling it terrorism is an attempt to politicize the issue and to attack Islam.

Liberals see the disconnect of people like YOU trying to tie this one person's actions to the beliefs of an entire religion. But, when that "one person" is a christian white guy (whose act was much more atrocious), he is judged as an individual and his actions excused by talking about "mental illness".

We are not trying to excuse this guy's behavior. We are asking why you condemn this guy's behavior, but excuse the behavior of others.

#85 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2017-11-01 11:46 AM | Reply

JPW feels so bad for islamofacist murderers that he's willing to portray himself as literally incapable of understanding the difference between a killer who proudly states that religion is the driving force behind his actions and someone who does not name religion as a motive at all.

Way to take one for the team!

#86 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

JPW feels so bad for islamofacist murderers that he's willing to portray himself as literally incapable of understanding the difference between a killer who proudly states that religion is the driving force behind his actions and someone who does not name religion as a motive at all.
Way to take one for the team!

#86 | POSTED BY SULLY

Way to miss the point but still grace us with this pile of brain barf idiocy.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 11:56 AM | Reply

And as a follow up, Republicans have watered down the definition of terrorism so that it no longer has any useful meaning. It really seems as if they think it means "some muslim guy killed or injured people".

Why would it be useful to label something as terrorism? I believe because it would allow us to focus on a group that was actually attacking us. But, was that the case here? No. Republican cry wolf like this all the time. This was probably suicide by cop, with Islamic Terrorism as the primary driver and firearms as a backup. Did ISIS provide him ANY material support or even advice. Doesn't look like it. So, why is it in any way HELPFUL to label this as terrorism? At this point, because Republicans insist on politicizing every event to try to smear Islam and Democrats, labeling something terrorism could be anything from "some muslim guy stabs someone (but does not kill them)" to "a coordinated attack where multiple planes are flown into buildings (~3000 dead)".

The only way I see this helping ANYONE by labeling it terrorism is to smear the religion of Islam. And Republicans are chomping at the bit to do that so they can justify their unconstitutional "muslim ban".

This was in all likelihood not terrorism.

The Las Vegas attack was likely not terrorism.

Unless you really just want to attack a religion of "others" that you want to dehumanize, why are you so insistent on using that word when it is not necessary, or even useful?

#88 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2017-11-01 12:01 PM | Reply

The only way I see this helping ANYONE by labeling it terrorism is to smear the religion of Islam.

Which is probably why the attacker said he did it in the name of ISIS. He just wanted to smear Islam, right?

#89 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 12:05 PM | Reply

You liberals try too hard to protect Islam.

#62 | POSTED BY BOAZ

You're an idiot.

#90 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:08 PM | Reply

Which is probably why the attacker said he did it in the name of ISIS. He just wanted to smear Islam, right?

Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-01 12:05 PM | Reply

No. Smearing Islam is Boaz's department.

#91 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-01 12:09 PM | Reply

"Was the Las Vegas shooter shouting "Glory to Jesus" as he was firing?
#69 | POSTED BY BOAZ"

Praise The Lord, And Pass The Ammunition!

Are you sufficiently cultured to get that reference, Boaz?

It's an American patriotic song from WWII.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 12:11 PM | Reply

The only way I see this helping ANYONE by labeling it terrorism is to smear the religion of Islam.

Ugh. And you wonder where Boaz gets his caricature of liberals from...

Just because he wasn't recruited by ISIS officially doesn't mean his voluntary action in support of ISIS isn't terrorism.

And just because the large majority of terrorist acts have been committed by Muslims/islamists doesn't mean the word terrorism is a slur against Muslims, it's just an unfortunate fact of reality.

Now I will say, though, that the word has been politicized by refusing to apply it to Christians who act out in similarly violent ways.

#93 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Republicans have watered down the definition of terrorism.. This was in all likelihood not terrorism. - #88 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2017-11-01 12:01 PM
The guy actually left a
note claiming the attack was done on behalf of ISIS. Please provide some examples of Republicans watering down the definition of terrorism, when Drudge has had several articles with conservatives (presumably Republicans, but not definitely) linking the actual definition of terrorism and arguing against the use of the word by liberals to describe acts like the Vegas shooter.

#94 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 12:19 PM | Reply

"Hmm...would the 1st amendment prevent the government from outlawing all religions from being practiced?
#82 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE"

The argument you're looking for is this: The Constitution provides freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion. Therefore, atheism is not protected.

I'll let you guess if it was a Republican or a Democrat who ran that one up the flag pole.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 12:21 PM | Reply

The issue was Boaz didn't have those facts at the time.

This post description said the mayor said it was terrorism. The article mentions the guy said Allah Akbar.

I repeated those confirmed facts. Where did I make assumptions again?

#96 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 12:22 PM | Reply

Now I will say, though, that the word has been politicized by refusing to apply it to Christians who act out in similarly violent ways.

I say the difference is, the Muslim is doing it because of Islam, the white guy who did it just happened to be Christian.

#97 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 12:23 PM | Reply

"linking the actual definition of terrorism and arguing against the use of the word by liberals to describe acts like the Vegas shooter."

There you go.

Arguing the Vegas thing wasn't terrorism is precisely the watering down he was talking about.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 12:23 PM | Reply

Arguing the Vegas thing wasn't terrorism is precisely the watering down he was talking about.

How exactly was the Vegas shooting terrorism?

#99 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:33 PM | Reply

I say the difference is, the Muslim is doing it because of Islam, the white guy who did it just happened to be Christian.

#97 | POSTED BY BOAZ

LOL

So the self-proclaimed evangelical Christian "warrior for babies" who shot up a planned parenthood clinic in Boulder, CO (linked to in post 80) was really just guilty of attacking a PP clinic while Christian, but not terrorism?

Suuuuree.

#100 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:36 PM | Reply

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

The terrorist came into our country through what is called the "Diversity Visa Lottery Program," a Chuck Schumer beauty. I want merit based.

twitter.com

Some of the responses are pretty good.... "How did Manafort get here?"

#101 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 12:36 PM | Reply

JPW,

That was just one. Most of the time, when white folks do mass killings, it's for another reason, not because of a Christian crusade..

#102 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 12:38 PM | Reply

Most of the time?

That means not all the time.

So the next time a PP clinic is attacked can I count on you calling it Christian terrorism?

#103 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:41 PM | Reply

The argument you're looking for is this: The Constitution provides freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion. Therefore, atheism is not protected. - #95 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 12:21 PM
No, I said what I meant. The Constitution states
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.... Oh there is the part I was missing.

#104 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 12:42 PM | Reply

Re#87 - I didn't miss a thing. You asked a ridiculous question in #80 like an idiot in order to deflect on behalf of violent jihadists. Own it, scuzzbucket.

#105 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 12:42 PM | Reply

That was just one. Most of the time, when white folks do mass killings, it's for another reason, not because of a Christian crusade..

Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 12:38 PM | Reply

www.independent.co.uk

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

#106 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-01 12:44 PM | Reply

Arguing the Vegas thing wasn't terrorism is precisely the watering down he was talking about.
#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 12:23 PM

You didn't read his post. He agrees that Vegas wasn't terrorism ["The Las Vegas attack was likely not terrorism."].
The watering down he claims is that Republicans are claiming too much stuff as terrorism ["they think it means 'some muslim guy killed or injured people'."].

#107 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-11-01 12:45 PM | Reply

JJeff Flake‏ @JeffFlake
Jeff Flake Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Actually, the Gang of 8, including @SenSchumer, did away with the Diversity Visa Program as part of broader reforms. I know, I was there

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
The terrorist came into our country through what is called the "Diversity Visa Lottery Program," a Chuck Schumer beauty. I want merit based.

Jeff Flake added:

Jeff Flake Retweeted Donald J. Trump
In fact, had the Senate Gang of 8 bill passed the House, it would have ended the Visa Lottery Program AND increased merit based visas.

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
We are fighting hard for Merit Based immigration, no more Democrat Lottery Systems. We must get MUCH tougher (and smarter). @foxandfriends

#108 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I say the difference is, the Muslim is doing it because of Islam, the white guy who did it just happened to be Christian.
#97 | POSTED BY BOAZ

The KKK are Christians...and terrorists...

So why is Christianity such a big problem? Do we need to ban Christians from coming to the US?

#109 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 12:48 PM | Reply

I didn't miss a thing.

Based on the absurdity that is the rest of this post, yes, yes you did miss quite a bit.

Scuzzbucket. LOL

#110 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 12:52 PM | Reply

Terrorist Sayfullo Saipov brags about deadly Manhattan truck attack while at hospital

www.nydailynews.com

#111 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 12:53 PM | Reply

Apparently the guy was radicalized by terrorists via the internet after he got here. And he has 3 little kids and a wife at home. He's deranged.

#112 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 12:57 PM | Reply

"Apparently the guy was radicalized by terrorists via the internet after he got here. And he has 3 little kids and a wife at home. He's deranged."

But how can that be? We all know internet propaganda doesn't work.

#113 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 12:59 PM | Reply

#113

Good point. It werked well for Putin/Trump 2016! and for ISIS.

#114 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:00 PM | Reply

"Schumer, in response to Trump's tweets, said, "I guess it's not too soon to politicize a tragedy."

In 2013, Schumer was part of the Senate's Gang of Eight, which came up with a sweeping bipartisan proposal to revamp U.S. immigration laws. Among other things, that proposal called for eliminating the diversity lottery."

www.washingtonpost.com

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:03 PM | Reply

Re#110 - if the truth hurts maybe you need to think about what you are doing and why. Islam inspired killers are not a good cause, FYI.

#116 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 01:08 PM | Reply

So the next time a PP clinic is attacked can I count on you calling it Christian terrorism?

Yes.

#117 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 01:12 PM | Reply

The Constitution states Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.... Oh there is the part I was missing.

No one is stopping anyone from bowing to the east at home or at a mosque.

#118 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 01:14 PM | Reply

#106 | Posted by LauraMohr

How can you be this stupid? You always infect any good argument with your stupid ramblings.

#119 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 01:16 PM | Reply

How can you be this stupid? You always infect any good argument with your stupid ramblings.

Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 01:16 PM | Reply

Translation" I can't refute what you said so I'll talk out of my tushy instead.

#120 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-01 01:19 PM | Reply

if the truth hurts maybe you need to think about what you are doing and why. Islam inspired killers are not a good cause, FYI.

#116 | POSTED BY SULLY

If that's what you took from my very specific post that was responding to a direct quote of another poster you're an idiot.

#121 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 01:24 PM | Reply

How can you be this stupid? You always infect any good argument with your stupid ramblings.
#119 | POSTED BY BOAZ

I'd lash out too if I was so easily painted into that corner you're stuck in.

#122 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 01:25 PM | Reply

#117 glad to hear it.

#123 | Posted by jpw at 2017-11-01 01:47 PM | Reply

If only he yelled "God is great" in English, terrorism may not have crept into the discussion. But he's white, he's Muslim and 8 are dead, a dozen injured and more scarred using the ISIS suggested terror vehicle - a vehicle. New York wants a different narrative as a bastion of liberalism and PC. It doesn't work in this case, oh well.

#124 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-11-01 01:55 PM | Reply

"New York wants a different narrative as a bastion of liberalism and PC. It doesn't work in this case, oh well."

Officials in NY, state and local, are calling this an act of terrorism.

#125 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 01:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'd lash out too if I was so easily painted into that corner you're stuck in.

I'm not stuck in any corner. Anybody stupid enough to say an American President did terrorism and to compare it on par with our enemy doesn't deserve to be acknowledged.

#126 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 02:04 PM | Reply

Really, Boaz, you don't think invading the wrong country after 9/11 was a bigger act of terrorism than 9/11 itself?

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 02:07 PM | Reply

Islam inspired killers are not a good cause, FYI.

No one here nor has any liberal I have ever met supports killing for Islam or for any reason. The same cannot be said of Trumpsters.

This is ISIS inspired terrorism.

There was even a note left saying so.

ISIS is not Islam nor does it represent the religion Islam any way. Not any more than the KKK or PP killers of the Las Vegas shooter (who was probably Christian) represents Christianity even though they are "inspired" by it.

#128 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-01 02:18 PM | Reply

Re#121- you are clearly deflecting. That you feel a need to deny it means that even you know that you are up to no good

#129 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 02:20 PM | Reply

"of the Las Vegas shooter" should have been "or the the Las Vegas shooter"

#130 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-01 02:20 PM | Reply

Anybody stupid enough to say an American President did terrorism and to compare it on par with our enemy doesn't deserve to be acknowledged.

Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 02:04 PM | Reply

I betcha the Iraqis thought what Dubya did was terrorism. To some it's only terrorism when the other guy does it. When your guy does it it's righteous.

#131 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-01 02:21 PM | Reply

#128 - the hand wringing over the use of the word "terrorism" is an attempt to obscure the motives of Islamic terrorists. Acknowledging the stated motives of Islamic terrorists is not the same as blaming all Muslims and never has been. The apologists should cut the crap already. They aren't helping anyone, especially Muslims.

#132 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-01 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Everyone is a nazi, and nobody is a terrorist.
-the DR loons

#133 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-11-01 02:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Nope... you got it right the first time. We protect Islam. Because it is a religion that has a wide variety of followers. A very small percentage are extremists and commit acts of violence and terror."

Here's the thing though, Islam is as much a political movement as it is a religion. And if you look at polls conducted within the Muslim community on secular government...and you'll find that their not the biggest fans.

I regard Islam and National Socialism as being very similar philosophies. Both are more repulsive than not, neither are terribly compatible with secular society, and both contain a relatively small number of adherents who are willing to employ violence in achieving a desired political end-state. The difference is that the left will defend Islam, while demanding that other similar groups (like National Socialists) be met with whatever means society is willing to accept.

For my money, a proponent of Islamic Imperialism (like those in ISIS) has as much right to free speech as a Nazi, a Communist, the Pope, or me...up until the point where someone drives a truck down a bike path in order to make a political point.

#134 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-01 02:39 PM | Reply

The Las Vegas Shooter was from Clinton, Iowa, U.S.

Why didn't trump immediately call for better vetting of white people from Clinton, Iowa?

Jesus H. the name of the town itself should have been a "dead" giveaway. The Clinton name is evil (just ask any Russian bot here) so only evil terrorists could have come from such a place.

Maybe if we built a wall around Clinton, Iowa we could finally stop all those evil Clintonians.

#135 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-01 02:40 PM | Reply

"And he has 3 little kids and a wife at home. He's deranged."

Or maybe he's a good Muslim doing his duty. I guess it depends on who you ask.

#136 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-01 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

People are bickering over the definition of terror, meanwhile, Trump is pushing to have this guy labeled as an enemy combatant and shipped to Gitmo.

#137 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 02:45 PM | Reply

People are bickering over the definition of terror, meanwhile, Trump is pushing to have this guy labeled as an enemy combatant and shipped to Gitmo.

#138 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-01 02:45 PM | Reply

- Or maybe he's a good Muslim

Only another fanatic confuses extremist terrorism with being a good Muslim.

#139 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 02:50 PM | Reply

I'm so very very confused.
I thought ISIS was going to be defeated in the first 30 days of the Trump presidency.
What happened?

#75 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

ISIS has been decimated by a change in the ROE by the Trump administration coupled with giving the generals for more autonomy when carrying out their missions.

As it turns out, ISIS is much bigger than the JV team.

#140 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-01 03:17 PM | Reply

#86

This is regarding the Sully/JPW spat.

I have no skin in this as I like both of them.

I reread JPW's #80 3 times. I think Sully misconstrued JPW's post. Just my 2 cents.

#141 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-01 03:20 PM | Reply

JeffJ it sounds like you're saying Bush's plan to fight them over there so we wouldn't have to fight them here... was a failure.

And it only took you fourteen years to figure out that wasn't gonna work!

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 03:21 PM | Reply

I'm so very very confused.
I thought ISIS was going to be defeated in the first 30 days of the Trump presidency.
What happened?
#75 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
ISIS has been decimated by a change in the ROE by the Trump administration coupled with giving the generals for more autonomy when carrying out their missions.
As it turns out, ISIS is much bigger than the JV team.
#140 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

If you read anything but Trump's twitter, you'd know three things:

(1) Trump hasn't really changed Obama's policies on dealing with ISIS.
(2) ISIS has lost territory but still remains rather strong if fragmented.
(3) ISIS is losing to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, not American forces.

Also, its a bit past 30 days....

You'd also know that Obama's strategy was the successful one and it continues to slowly take out ISIS.

#143 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-01 03:27 PM | Reply

Only another fanatic confuses extremist terrorism with being a good Muslim.
#139 | POSTED BY CORKY

There are probably good ones on both sides.

#144 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-11-01 03:32 PM | Reply

If Trump wants to take pro-active measures against terrorists, he should consider extreme vetting of people entering the country from places like Chechnya and Uzbekistan:

Vladimir Putin's Newest Export: Terrorists

ISIS is full of Russian speakers from Chechnya and other Caucasus republics, and the ‘stans.' One is suspected of the NYE shooting in Istanbul.

www.thedailybeast.com

#145 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 03:34 PM | Reply

#145 From the article:

With the establishment of ISIS's "caliphate," veterans of the Caucasus or Central Asia insurgencies have found a new port of call, and ISIS has even gone so far as to declare a wilayat, or province, on Russian Federation territory, more out of bluster than anything approaching the medieval reality it has been able to impose on now-dwindling areas of Syria and Iraq.

According to Jacob Zenn, a fellow at the Jamestown Foundation, "not including al-Qaeda and also not including Uighurs, if you're looking at Russian-speaking jihadists, you're looking at mostly Uzbeks." And very few of them actually come from Uzbekistan but are rather cultivated as migrant laborers inside Russia. "They get picked up by a jamaat," he said, referring to the Arabic word for an Islamic council, "with professional ISIS recruiters in Russia who get money for each guy they send to ISIS in Syria. The route is through Turkey. There hasn't been much done about it."

#146 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 03:37 PM | Reply

ISIS is not Islam nor does it represent the religion Islam any way.

The Koran is being used to justify this in his(the killers) mind. We cannot fix this cultural issue. Only the Muslims can do that.

#147 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-01 03:42 PM | Reply

(1) Trump hasn't really changed Obama's policies on dealing with ISIS.
(2) ISIS has lost territory but still remains rather strong if fragmented.
(3) ISIS is losing to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, not American forces.
Also, its a bit past 30 days....
You'd also know that Obama's strategy was the successful one and it continues to slowly take out ISIS.

#143 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

(1) ISIS numbers and territory have been decimated since the ROE were changed as well as giving the generals much more autonomy. Both of those changes have coincided with massive losses for ISIS.

(2) Agreed.

(3) OK. That's a good thing, right?

#148 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-01 03:49 PM | Reply

Oh, look, the Visa vetting process has already been changed:

The vetting process for all visa programs was substantially changed two years after Saipov's entry to include vetting against a broad array of classified and unclassified information.

The change was prompted by the terror-related arrests in Bowling Green, Kentucky of two individuals who came through an Iraqi refugee program. There was information in Department of Defense files that linked these people to IED attacks against American soldiers in Iraq. At that time, though, the visa vetting process did not include access to that information.

abcnews.go.com

#149 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 03:52 PM | Reply

The Koran is being used to justify this in his(the killers) mind. We cannot fix this cultural issue. Only the Muslims can do that.

#147 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Thank you for proving my point. You have made it clear that your purpose in labeling this guy a terrorist is not to focus on the actual GROUP that he purportedly pledged himself to (ISIS), but instead to smear an entire religion.

#150 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2017-11-01 05:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So many moronic posts. The guy said and had notes that he was doing this for Isis. How the hell is this not an act of terrorism? Have we gone mad?

#151 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-11-01 08:48 PM | Reply

Well, Ted Bundy blamed pornography for his murders. You believe him? Very few did.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 08:54 PM | Reply

#152 | Posted by snoofy
What kind of rental truck was Bundy killing people with?

#153 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-11-01 08:57 PM | Reply

#150 | Posted by gtbritishskull
I didn't know "terrorist" was a religion.

#154 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-11-01 08:58 PM | Reply

So many moronic posts. The guy said and had notes that he was doing this for Isis. How the hell is this not an act of terrorism? Have we gone mad?

#151 | Posted by fishpaw

Who said it's not terrorism?

It's terrorism just like the klansman who ran over a woman in charlottesville was terrorism.

Only one of them Trump called terrorism IMMEDIATELY and the other one he said he doesn't like to rush to judgement, there are very fine people marching among nazis and klansmen.

#155 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-01 09:06 PM | Reply

"The Koran is being used to justify this in his(the killers) mind."

Sounds legit.

When you killed people in Iraq, what justified it in your mind?

Was it okay to invade a country that didn't attack us on 9/11?

People like you are the cause of people like Sayfullo.

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-01 09:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Rental trucks don't kill people. People who drive rental trucks into people, kill people.

#157 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-02 08:07 AM | Reply

"When you killed people in Iraq, what justified it in your mind?"

Ask Hillary

#158 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-02 08:11 AM | Reply

(3) ISIS is losing to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces, not American forces.

#143 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-11-01 03:27 PM | FLAG:

Huge asterisk on this one. It's Shia militas with a penchant for ethnic cleansing, and Kurds, that do not advance at all without the US Air Force.

You also left out the Syrians and Russians, where it was Obama's strategy to bankroll rebel forces that allied and otherwise cut deals with IS when convenient.

#159 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-11-02 08:37 AM | Reply

I wonder if the immigration vetting process people thought this scuzbuckets name was cute.

Sword of allah?

These folks want us dead. No targeted targets in this country. Just freeloving citizens to be slaughtered because they are different.

#160 | Posted by mutant at 2017-11-02 10:41 AM | Reply

"It's terrorism just like the klansman who ran over a woman in charlottesville was terrorism."

Would you still consider it terrorism if it had been a counter-protester running over a Klansman?

#161 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-02 10:47 AM | Reply

Who said it's not terrorism?#155 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2017-11-01 09:06 PM | FLAG:

Read the first 100 or so posts including yours

#162 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-11-02 11:42 AM | Reply

"Would you still consider it terrorism if it had been a counter-protester running over a Klansman?"

Do Tamir Rice and Philando Castile next!

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-02 12:31 PM | Reply

Little tidbit about the Vegas shooting, Remember that FBI agent standing behind the sheriff to his left, that is John Podesta's son in law. His assignment was the head of counter intelligence. Now the section chief of the Vegas FBI. His name is Arron C. Rouse. Megan Rouse, John Podesta's daughter is on a school board in California

#164 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-02 12:43 PM | Reply

"John Podesta's daughter is on a school board in California."

Is it the one that fleeced the local taxpayers with a $100M bond that will cost over $1B?

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-02 12:46 PM | Reply

#165 | Posted by snoofy I have no idea. But generally California has the highest paid elected officials in the United States.

#166 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-02 01:01 PM | Reply

These folks want us dead. No targeted targets in this country. Just freeloving citizens to be slaughtered because they are different.

#160 | Posted by mutant

For no reason at all right?

It's not like we've been dropping bombs on their innocent relatives or anything for 16 years...

#167 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 01:13 PM | Reply

Or assassinating their elected leaders, or installing puppet regimes, or stealing their natural resources...

#168 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 01:14 PM | Reply

"It's not like we've been dropping bombs on their innocent relatives or anything for 16 years..."

That also why they've been going after the Kurds, Yazidis, Shias, Christians, and all the rest as well, right? ISIS is just responding to unjust attacks that have been made against them.

Here in the real world, we USans haven't seen much ISIS-inspired violence. Not when compared to our friends in Europe, and certainly not when compared to the middle east.

#169 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-02 01:26 PM | Reply

That also why they've been going after the Kurds, Yazidis, Shias, Christians, and all the rest as well, right? ISIS is just responding to unjust attacks that have been made against them.

Here in the real world, we USans haven't seen much ISIS-inspired violence. Not when compared to our friends in Europe, and certainly not when compared to the middle east.

#169 | Posted by madbomber

Yeah i'm sure it's not because we're on the other side of the globe. If we were next door, they'd still be leaving us alone, right dum dum?

#170 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 01:34 PM | Reply

Yeah i'm sure it's not because we're on the other side of the globe. If we were next door, they'd still be leaving us alone, right dum dum?

#170 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

He was deconstructing your suggestion that it's the US's fault that ISIS attempts to pull off terror attacks here.

#171 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-11-02 01:37 PM | Reply

Maybe the DR left can start a movement to redefine "terrorism" as "violence perpetrated by a white person". And killings perpetrated on behalf of radical Islam can be called "They deserved it".

#172 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-02 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

He was deconstructing your suggestion that it's the US's fault that ISIS attempts to pull off terror attacks here.

#171 | Posted by JeffJ

Well he failed. The main thing that prevents their attacks here is geographic distance.

That doesn't mean our long term and widespread deadly mideast conquests haven't inspired many of them to WANT to kill us.

If you were a mideastern goat farmer who's daughter was killed by a US drone, you'd probably be inspired to attack the US too.

#173 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 02:06 PM | Reply

So they want to be sleeper terrorist immigrants to get us back?

With that logic we are sure that you then support the muslim ban and their families too. Your support of all things trump is unwavering.

#174 | Posted by mutant at 2017-11-02 02:28 PM | Reply

#173 | Posted by SpeakSoftly Nope, he was inspire to do so long before, as his grandfathers were for the last 1400 years.

#175 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-02 02:29 PM | Reply

And fools are the only ones satisfied with the vegas shooting case. Follow the money. Lots of shares sold in that casino the m9nth before

#176 | Posted by mutant at 2017-11-02 03:18 PM | Reply

"Yeah i'm sure it's not because we're on the other side of the globe. If we were next door, they'd still be leaving us alone, right dum dum?"

Belgium is next door to Iraq? That's your argument?

It's the difficulty in catching that connecting flight that's deterring terrorist from blowing themselves up at concerts or other public places?

"If you were a mideastern goat farmer who's daughter was killed by a US drone, you'd probably be inspired to attack the US too."

Which I could understand to some degree. But I don't really see how having your daughter killed by a US drone would inspire you to enslave Yazidis and murder Kurdish children unless you were a piece of ---- to start with...in which case you're probably at least partially responsible for any drone-related deaths in the family.

#177 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-02 03:37 PM | Reply

"He was deconstructing your suggestion that it's the US's fault that ISIS attempts to pull off terror attacks here."

There wouldn't even be an ISIS if we hadn't illegally invaded Iraq, with your support.

At least have the common decency to own what you break.

#178 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-02 04:33 PM | Reply

There wouldn't even be an ISIS if we hadn't illegally invaded Iraq, with your support.

And even if they were around, they wouldn't have any teeth had we not provided them with arms and training in order to overthrow even worse tyrants like Khaddafi and Al-Assad.

#179 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-02 04:45 PM | Reply

In all fairness, it's not outside the realm of possibility that ISIS regards the US as more of an ally than an adversary. We've funded them. We've trained them. We removed some of their greatest obstacles to power in the form of local secular leaders (Al-Assad, Hussein, Khaddafi), we've allowed them the freedom of movement that basically facilitated the emergence of the Islamic State. And our closest allies are their closest trading partners.

They may not want us gone. Because if we go, they're left to stand alone against Russia and Iran. And that will be a quick fight.

#180 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-02 04:52 PM | Reply

Who benefits more from ISIS terror, Democrats or Republicans?

I'm confident you'll find a way for it to be equally bipartisan, if not leaning Democrat!

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-02 05:05 PM | Reply

And fools are the only ones satisfied with the vegas shooting case. Follow the money. Lots of shares sold in that casino the m9nth before

#176 | Posted by mutant

Yeah when a white guy does something horrible, there's GOT to be another reason, right?

#182 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 06:10 PM | Reply

There wouldn't even be an ISIS if we hadn't illegally invaded Iraq, with your support.
#179 | Posted by madbomber

IRAQ was brought to you by the republican party. It was the natural result of electing a stupid spoiled rich kid with daddy issues who failed in the oil industry.
Just because they lied enough to get some democrats to support the war doesn't mean it was a democrat's war.

#183 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-11-02 06:12 PM | Reply

"IRAQ was brought to you by the republican party. It was the natural result of electing a stupid spoiled rich kid with daddy issues who failed in the oil industry. Just because they lied enough to get some democrats to support the war doesn't mean it was a democrat's war."

My goodness, I couldn't have crafted a more reactionary, progressive comment if I tried.

Iraq was brought to you by the American public, who wanted lots and lots of blood after the 9/11 attacks, but lacked the fortitude to do what was needed in Afghanistan. Bush, wanting to give the people what they wanted, realized that Saddam's Iraq was a very easy mark. Militarily, it had lots of cold-war era equipment that could be easily swept aside by modern-day US military equipment (highlighted on CNN every night, of course). It was a country that was strongly disliked by most of it's neighbors (Saddam was a secular leader in a region dominated by Islamic fundamentalism), and he had no real allies to speak of. In other words, he was the perfect Mark.

And yes, the Dems are as guilty of supporting the invasion as anyone else.

#184 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-03 09:36 AM | Reply

Mad - your claim is ridiculous. Yes Americans wanted revenge. But the Bush admin leveraged those post 9/11 feelings by continually lying to us. The Dems were too cowardly to stand up to it at a time when looking passive would cost then elections. So they went along too. But it was all sold from the top down.

Iraq was Bush and Cheney's agenda. The public was stupid for trusting them when the warning signs were all there. And the idea that the public was weary about Afghanistan is a silly fabrication.

#185 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-03 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Iraq was Bush and Cheney's agenda. The public was stupid for trusting them when the warning signs were all there. And the idea that the public was weary about Afghanistan is a silly fabrication."

Weary about Afghanistan? Not at all. But the Executive can't go to the US population and state that, in order to defeat the Taliban, it's going to require a major military effort and result in hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. Iraq was the easiest sell for the reasons I outlined above.

But think of it this way, we know Iran has a nuke weapons program. We know they support terrorism. We know that they harbored members of Al Qaeda. But we're not going to pick a fight with them. We can also look at Syria and its known chem weapons program. Had support for an invasion been as high in 2014 when Obama established the red line as it had been in 2003 prior to the invasion of Iraq, you would have seen the Ranger Regiment seizing desert airfields to support US operations against Assad. Fortunately, it seems like many USans have learned our lesson about going in and destabilizing other countries in the name of justice and freedom. Because all we've ever really don't is enable Islamism, slavery, destruction, and death. Almost Universally, we've left those countries far worse off than they were before...unless you're an Islamist.

#186 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-11-03 10:16 AM | Reply

What you are saying about Afghanistan doesn't compute. They didn't have to sell a worse case scenario. They certainly didn't with Iraq. And it didn't take much effort to oust the Taliban. Post Taliban nation building took effort. And that was unnecessary to accomplish what should have been our goals there. The full force of our military should have been used to crush AQ and the Taliban and then we should have left our allies in charge. It would have devolved back into the same civil war that was there before we got involved. But the people who had attacked us would have suffered the consequences and that was the only reasonable goal there.

Instead Bush diverted resources to Iraq as part of a big bloody money grab and key AQ and Taliban were able to evade punishment in Afghanistan as a result.

Sure you can say that OBL and others may have evaded our forces anyway but we will never know because the scumbag in chief undermined the effort by focusing on Iraq. We relied on afghani troops too much as a result and the result was predictable.

#187 | Posted by Sully at 2017-11-03 10:39 AM | Reply

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