Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, October 26, 2017

Soon after the tragic mass shooting in Las Vegas, the White House batted down the idea of enacting more gun control with the argument that many cities with strict gun laws have high murder rates. The White House specifically pointed to Chicago and Baltimore as "some of America's cities with the strictest gun laws" coupled with "the highest rates of gun violence."
An NPR fact check of the White House talking point noted that Chicago is close to the borders of two states -- Wisconsin and Indiana -- that have weak gun laws. A 2014 report from the city of Chicago noted that 60 percent of guns used to commit crimes in Chicago from 2009 to 2013 originated outside of Illinois, and Indiana and Wisconsin were two of the biggest sources of recovered guns.

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We need National gun reform.

period.

#1 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-26 03:29 PM | Reply

So, drugs are illegal but flow in from mexico. How is that working?

#2 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-10-26 05:31 PM | Reply

It's working pretty much the same way guns flow into Chicago.

Quite well.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 05:40 PM | Reply

Chicago just needs to establish more gun free zones and that will fix the problem.

#4 | Posted by MSgt at 2017-10-26 06:19 PM | Reply

Yeah, they need to establish one in Wisconsin and Illinois. Now you're getting it.

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 06:21 PM | Reply

I wonder if anyone has considered why those states that allow guns have lower rates of gun violence?

Maybe because gun laws are like OSHA for gun-wielding criminals? A safe-space for them to operate in an environment where they know that the apex predators will always be those who don't follow the law.

I'll tell you. The people who commit gun crimes in Baltimore or Chicago, they wouldn't be doing that in Fairbanks, AK. Because they would be met with someone with a bigger gun, and zero compunction about using it. And if they managed to get away, there's still a strong possibility that the person they were trying to rob is going to pull out a .338 or .300 winmag and evacuate their skulls from 400 yards out.

#6 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-26 10:25 PM | Reply

And in Fairbanks, AK (a strangely diverse city) no one is going to blink about a dead thief. Feed em to the wolves and the bears.

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-26 10:26 PM | Reply

And if they managed to get away, there's still a strong possibility that the person they were trying to rob is going to pull out a .338 or .300 winmag and evacuate their skulls from 400 yards out.

Barf. Alaskan criminals are limited to less "manly" weapons in some way?

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-26 10:32 PM | Reply

"I wonder if anyone has considered why those states that allow guns have lower rates of gun violence?"

They don't.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 10:44 PM | Reply

"And in Fairbanks, AK (a strangely diverse city) no one is going to blink about a dead thief."

Or a raped woman. www.newsminer.com

"For a metro of just over 97,000, an incredibly high rate of rape (more than double the national metropolitan average) lands Fairbanks among the top three most dangerous cities for women in the United States at 191 reported rapes per 100,000 residents," the magazine says."

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 10:50 PM | Reply

I wonder if anyone has considered why those states that allow guns have lower rates of gun violence?

#6 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT

I don't live in Chicago but I'm there often enough. There are billboards that advertise CCW classes up and down both sides of every highway that rolls through there.

A place that "doesn't allow guns" is a real strange place to put something like that, wouldn't you say?

#11 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-27 12:37 PM | Reply

A place that "doesn't allow guns" is a real strange place to put something like that, wouldn't you say?

The Chicago gun ban is a popular myth.

#12 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-27 12:44 PM | Reply

So red, WTF is the truth of the mater?

#13 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-10-27 01:50 PM | Reply

#6 that might be one of the dumbest pro-gun posts I've ever read here.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-27 02:03 PM | Reply

How is it that they know this? I've been told we have no way to track firearms or firearm purchases and therefore need a database.

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-27 02:04 PM | Reply

#15....

If you own a gun and went through a background check when you bought it you already know how they know.

Why would you ask?

#16 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-27 02:07 PM | Reply

I hope we have a federal gun grab one day.

Not only will it root out the kooks that want to fight the gubmint, but also the Sandyhook/Vegas Truther loons.

You can keep your six-shooters and double-barrel shotguns for posterity's sake.

#17 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-27 02:17 PM | Reply

Oh, and you can keep your bolt action hunting rifles too.

If you can't take a deer down in one shot, you shouldn't be hunting anyways.

You're just wounding animals.

#18 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-27 02:19 PM | Reply

So red, WTF is the truth of the mater?

The truth of what matter?

#19 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-27 02:24 PM | Reply

"#6 that might be one of the dumbest pro-gun posts I've ever read here."

Hate the game, not the player! ;)

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-27 02:25 PM | Reply

"If you own a gun and went through a background check when you bought it you already know how they know."

I didn't think they can store that data owing to repeated NRA pants wettings about how scary it is for the government to have such a list.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-27 02:26 PM | Reply

I didn't think they can store that data owing to repeated NRA pants wettings about how scary it is for the government to have such a list.
#21 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Gun shops are required to store the data forever and must turn the records over to the ATF when they close.

But clearly this information is easily accessible.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-27 03:17 PM | Reply

"But clearly this information is easily accessible."

It is?

Looks to me like it would take a request to every gun store in America.

That's about 50,000 requests.

Not easily accessible.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-27 04:45 PM | Reply

But if you're saying the ATF already has this info, then that's a different story.

I doubt the ATF has a historical record of every gun sale going back to whenever such laws were enacted, but if they do, I'd like to see it, or know who gets to see it, and how, and why.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-27 04:48 PM | Reply

Not easily accessible.

#23 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

They were able to take firearms used in crimes in Chicago and trace their origin for a report that covered the previous five years before it was published.

Meaning that the time to track a gun to its source was at most five years but at the least less than a year.

Fine, I grant you the existing system doesn't allow for a convenient, one song montage search, coffee break and *ahhhh ha* quick printout result.

But to hear it described here on the DR, once a gun is bought it disappears into the ether.

#25 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-28 03:16 AM | Reply

But if you're saying the ATF already has this info, then that's a different story.

My understanding is that it's typically in paper from, but the records exist.

I doubt the ATF has a historical record of every gun sale going back to whenever such laws were enacted, but if they do, I'd like to see it, or know who gets to see it, and how, and why.

#24 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Not sure when the law was passed nor do I work for the ATF so I can't speak as to the depth of the historical record.

However, the records held by gun shops must be turned over to the ATF upon request. It may require a court order to accompany the request IIRC.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-28 03:19 AM | Reply

"They were able to take firearms used in crimes in Chicago and trace their origin for a report that covered the previous five years before it was published."

Sure.

Not easily or broadly accessible outside law enforcement.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-28 04:24 AM | Reply

"But to hear it described here on the DR, once a gun is bought it disappears into the ether."

Until a gun is used in a crime or otherwise warrants criminal investigation, that sounds accurate.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-28 04:33 AM | Reply

However, the records held by gun shops must be turned over to the ATF upon request. It may require a court order to accompany the request IIRC.

#26 | POSTED BY JPW

When I was a locksmith, the company I worked for also had a gun smith attached, they turned their records into the ATF on a regular basis. I dont remember how often it was but if I'm remembering correctly it was at least once a year unless otherwise requested sooner(which happened once when I was there). Everything in the shop had a tracking number and had to be accounted for on a log, with the signature of who received it and who dropped it off, along with serial numbers on the gun. The ATF also had this information.

Idk what they do after they get the information, but I know they have it.

#29 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-10-28 12:16 PM | Reply

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