Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 25, 2017

Donald Trump said that "his" generals are to blame for the four American soldiers who were killed in Niger, operating under his orders.
Trump's cowardice ignores his role as commander in chief of the U.S. military and attempts to pass the buck for the results of his leadership.
In an impromptu question and answer session on the White House lawn, where he bragged that he is "a very intelligent person," Trump sidestepped responsibility for his leadership.
Asked by reporters if he authorized the deadly mission, Trump said, "No, I didn't. Not specifically. But I have generals that are great generals, adding, "I give them authority to do what's right so that we win."

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He also said, "My generals and my military – they have decision-making ability." This is a reference to Trump's dangerous policy, enacted early in his, term to cede real-time decision making ability to generals, which he has used to evade responsibility for deaths.

Veterans blasted Trump's cowardly words minutes after he spoke. Will Fischer, director of government relations at Vote Vets and an Iraq War veteran, told Shareblue Media, "This isn't how a commander in chief acts, but then again, a commander in chief would apologize to a grieving military widow for upsetting her. " He added, "A commander in chief would have taken responsibility for the failed Yemen raid, but Trump pawned that off, too. It shouldn't be surprising that a guy who weaseled out of military service in the first place, by claiming ‘bone spurs,' now weasels out of taking responsibility for his military failures." Shawn VanDiver, U.S. Navy veteran and member of the Truman National Security Project's Defense Council, told Shareblue Media, "When it comes to the military, the buck stops with the commander-in-chief; unfortunately, President Trump has demonstrated time and again that he is fundamentally unable to apologize, admit mistakes, or own up to pretty much anything." Trump's weasel words don't change reality. As the Department of Defense notes, "The President, as commander-in-chief of the armed forces, is the ultimate authority." The buck stops with him, period. The military warned ahead of time that there was inadequate support for missions in Niger. They did not have the assets available in the theater to deal with the ambush faced by the Niger 4. They were sent into harm's way by their leader, who is now trying to shirk his duty. The evasive blame-shifting has been a hallmark of Trump's time in office. Just about a month after being sworn in, he green-lit a deadly raid in Yemen that led to the death of U.S. Navy SEAL William "Ryan" Owens. After questions were raised about the mess, Trump desperately claimed that the mission "was started before I got here" and blamed the military for the tragic outcome: "And they lost Ryan." Trump also again went on the attack against Myeshia Johnson, widow of Army Sgt. La David Johnson, one of the four men killed in Niger. Trump denied her account of what happened during his phone call to her, insisting that he remembered her husband's name and that he showed "respect." She said Trump's call "made me cry," and told ABC that his statement that her husband "knew what he signed up for," along with his failure to use Johnson's name, was extremely upsetting. Trump's version of the call sounded as if it came from an alternate reality.

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Hey Trump supporters, can you actually feel your soul dying a little bit every day you support this POS?

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 02:47 PM | Reply

Based on the actual quotes of what Trump said in the linked article, this is a massive headline fail.

#2 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 02:55 PM | Reply

You're right, Jeff, he didn't explicitly blame them.

But as with everything Trump he leaves an exit to avoid blame.

BTW how's that soul feeling these days? Are your occasional, feeble criticisms enough to overcome your implicit support?

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:03 PM | Reply

Donald Trump: The Alpha and Omega of Pighood.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-25 03:04 PM | Reply

BTW how's that soul feeling these days? Are your occasional, feeble criticisms enough to overcome your implicit support?

#3 | POSTED BY JPW

My soul is fine.

I'm not the one being dishonest about what he actually said.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 03:12 PM | Reply

I'm not the one being dishonest about what he actually said.

No, just hyper-literal and approaching Goatman level of obtuseness.

As CiC, the POTUS is the ultimate authority in military matters.

Abdicating that responsibility is bad enough, using that abdication to avoid any responsibility for missions gone wrong is even worse.

#6 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Remember when Hillary was personally responsible for the events leading up to and including Benghazi?

Well. Trump isn't responsible for anything. Ever.

Because republicans will never hold him accountable for anything he does.

#7 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 03:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

This is what he said:

Asked by reporters whether he gave the go-ahead for the operation, Trump said: "No I didn't. Not specifically."

While it's unusual for presidents to distance themselves from military operations that result in loss of American life, Trump indicated he supports the overall mission in the west African nation.

"I gave them authority to do what's right so that we win. That's the authority they have," he said. "I want to win. And we're going to win and we're beating ISIS very badly. You look at what's happening in the Middle East."


No, just hyper-literal and approaching Goatman level of obtuseness.

Hyper-literal? I'm responding to what he actually said, not a misrepresentation of what he actually said. It's called being intellectually honest.

As CiC, the POTUS is the ultimate authority in military matters.

Agreed.

Abdicating that responsibility is bad enough, using that abdication to avoid any responsibility for missions gone wrong is even worse.

#6 | POSTED BY JPW

One of the few things Trump has gotten right since coming into office was to change the ROE in regards to how our military deals with ISIS. He's given his generals much more authority than the previous administration did. The result has been that ISIS is being decimated. His comments are consistent with his approach - an approach that has resulted in overwhelmingly positive results on net.

If he gets something right, it's OK to acknowledge it. You're not going to melt. If he gets something wrong - which is true most of the time - it's OK to acknowledge that too, which is something that I do frequently.

#8 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 03:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Did he actually say he wasn't responsible?

No. He was asked if he authorized it and he said "not personally". He then went on to support the overall mission in Africa and praised his generals.

You guys are becoming the "Boy Who Cried Wolf". If he says something that doesn't warrant criticism, you don't have to criticize him anyway, because Trump.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 03:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

This is what he said

I read it. How else do you think I assessed your comment?

Hyper-literal? I'm responding to what he actually said, not a misrepresentation of what he actually said.

The article is largely Trump quotes.

BTW you do realize you described yourself being literal above, right? LOL

It's called being intellectually honest.

It's called being obtuse.

As CiC, the POTUS is the ultimate authority in military matters.

Agreed.

Then you can't possibly accept Trump's admission, which was recusing himself from responsibility by claiming he deferred to his generals.

Which is a long winded way of saying it's the general's fault, not his.

He then went on to support the overall mission in Africa and praised his generals.

He have a typical Trump answer of saying yes and no and maybe at the same time.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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Asked by reporters whether he gave the go-ahead for the operation, Trump said: "No I didn't. Not specifically."

"I gave them authority to do what's right so that we win.


You've got to credit Trump with his ability to double talk.

"No, I didn't.", is one answer.

"Not specifically.", is another.

"I gave them authority to do what's right so we win.", is a third.

Let's try a different scenario.

Your son's friends just crashed your car. You ask your son if he gave his friend permission to drive your car.

Your son says, "No I didn't. Not specifically. I gave him authority to do what's right so that we could get to the movies on time."

Now. You can say what ever you want. But we all know, without your son's permission, his friend would never have driven your car.

"I want to win. And we're going to win and we're beating ISIS very badly. You look at what's happening in the Middle East."

This is all meaningless tripe.

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 03:52 PM | Reply

"...a typical Trump answer of saying yes and no and maybe at the same time." - #10 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:51 PM

In other words, for Trump...

The Buck Stops Everywhere But Here

#12 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-25 03:59 PM | Reply

Then you can't possibly accept Trump's admission, which was recusing himself from responsibility by claiming he deferred to his generals.

That's not a recusal of responsibility. He said they made the call and that he supports them.

Allow me to illustrate with an analogy:

Head coach inserts a play. Offense lines up, QB changes the play at the line of scrimmage. The result of the play is a pick-6.

After the game, the head coach is asked by a reporter if he called that play. Coach says, "No. Our QB saw something he didn't like and changed the play at the line of scrimmage. He's a good QB and I give him a lot of latitude out there."

Would that be an indictment of this coach?

Also, if Trump actually didn't personally authorize the mission, what is your expectation? You want him to lie about it? What if it was a mission that was a smashing success and he didn't personally authorize it? Should he lie and take credit for it, or should he say he didn't personally authorize it?

#13 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 04:00 PM | Reply

Only a true idiot would read that as Trump blaming his generals.

You people are ------- pathetic in your need to invent ---- to get lathered up over.

Is there anything you limpwrists don't get the vapors over?

#14 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-10-25 04:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

By loosening the ROE, Trump gave his Generals what they needed to succeed. If something great happens, then you can be 100% sure that the DR Left will not praise Trump. But when one mission goes south, the Nancies run in circles, waving their hands and blaming Trump for everything.

It would be funny if the circumstances weren't so sad.

#15 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 04:34 PM | Reply

All that matters to me is that his Generals know the score and don't think that he blamed them for anything. They are big boys and girls, they are only focused on the mission, not the noise generated by the civvies.

#16 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 04:35 PM | Reply

if Trump actually didn't personally authorize the mission,

Then there must have been a coup.

He's ultimately responsible for the actions of the military. It's literally his job.

His job isn't to lecture NFL players. Or bring back coal jobs. Or sell visas to the Chinese. Or...

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 04:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If something great happens, then you can be 100% sure that Trump will take all the credit.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 04:53 PM | Reply

#18

I don't doubt that either. But if you are going give him 100% of the blame, you better be giving him 100% of the credit as well.

#19 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 06:19 PM | Reply

Only a true idiot would read that as Trump blaming his generals.

So by indicating the buck stops with them, he's saying what?

#20 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:42 PM | Reply

So by indicating the buck stops with them, he's saying what?

#20 | POSTED BY JPW

He didn't say that or imply that.

#21 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 06:44 PM | Reply

But if you are going give him 100% of the blame, you better be giving him 100% of the credit as well.

100% is a bit much.

But you can't act like you had nothing to do with failures while wanting accolades for giving an order when something positive happens.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:44 PM | Reply

He didn't say that or imply that.

#21 | Posted by JeffJ

Then you're blind.

Sorry, but this isn't exactly subtle between the line stuff here.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:45 PM | Reply

But you can't act like you had nothing to do with failures

He didn't do that.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 06:45 PM | Reply

#23

See #13.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 06:46 PM | Reply

Trump's weasel words don't change reality. As the Department of Defense notes, "The President, as commander-in-chief of the armed forces, is the ultimate authority."

The buck stops with him, period.

The military warned ahead of time that there was inadequate support for missions in Niger. They did not have the assets available in the theater to deal with the ambush faced by the Niger 4. They were sent into harm's way by their leader, who is now trying to shirk his duty.

Delegation of duties and decision making doesn't mean one no longer is responsible for the decisions made under their watch. That's the reason why you pick good people to delegate to, because their screw ups will reflect on you.

At the very least Trump could have familiarized himself with what was going on and given a vague non-answer answer as dozens of Presidents have done before when dealing with a failing or misstep of a subordinate.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:51 PM | Reply

#26 | POSTED BY JPW

His answer could have been better, no doubt about that. He should have made mention that even though he was delegating, responsibility ultimately starts and stops with him.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 06:53 PM | Reply

As an aside, I want to point out what Trump got 5 deferments for

www.webmd.com

Heel spurs often cause no symptoms. But heel spurs can be associated with intermittent or chronic pain -- especially while walking, jogging, or running -- if inflammation develops at the point of the spur formation. In general, the cause of the pain is not the heel spur itself but the soft-tissue injury associated with it.

If you have heel pain that persists for more than one month, consult a health care provider. He or she may recommend conservative treatments such as:
Stretching exercises
Shoe recommendations
Taping or strapping to rest stressed muscles and tendons
Shoe inserts or orthotic devices
Physical therapy
Night splints
Heel pain may respond to treatment with over-the-counter medications such as acetaminophen (Tylenol), ibuprofen (Advil), or naproxen (Aleve). In many cases, a functional orthotic device can correct the causes of heel and arch pain such as biomechanical imbalances. In some cases, injection with a corticosteroid may be done to relieve inflammation in the area.

Trump could have served by taking some Tylenol or wearing supports in his shoes.

Keep this in mind at all times.

#28 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 06:54 PM | Reply

I saw 13. It's a poor analogy, unless this was a spur of the moment outing by these guys without contact with the chain of command.

Otherwise, to make this analogy comparable you'd have to remove some linemen from the field and have the QB run a running play with a wide receiver carrying the ball.

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:55 PM | Reply

The point of the analogy was that the QB, not the coach, made the call. If Trump is to be believed, the same thing applies here. That he went on to say that he gives them authority to do what is right.....that's an admission of responsibility.

IMO you are making this about something that it is not.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 06:57 PM | Reply

One of the few things Trump has gotten right since coming into office was to change the ROE in regards to how our military deals with ISIS. He's given his generals much more authority than the previous administration did. The result has been that ISIS is being decimated. His comments are consistent with his approach - an approach that has resulted in overwhelmingly positive results on net.
If he gets something right, it's OK to acknowledge it. You're not going to melt. If he gets something wrong - which is true most of the time - it's OK to acknowledge that too, which is something that I do frequently.
#8 | Posted by JeffJ

www.newsweek.com

The U.S.-led coalition fighting the Islamic State militant group (ISIS) has killed more civilians during President Donald Trump's first seven months in office than in the three years it existed under his predecessor, according to the latest estimate by a U.K.-based monitor.

Those changes in the ROE come at the price of innocent women and children.

#31 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 06:58 PM | Reply

His answer could have been better, no doubt about that. He should have...

This is the point of the conversation where Trumpophiles makes excuses for Trump by explaining he didn't really mean what he said.

And then go on to explain their interpretation of what they wanted him to have said.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 07:00 PM | Reply

All that matters to me is that his Generals know the score and don't think that he blamed them for anything. They are big boys and girls, they are only focused on the mission, not the noise generated by the civvies.
#16 | Posted by Rightocenter

how many women and children need to die for you to feel safe?

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:01 PM | Reply

This is the point of the conversation where Trumpophiles makes excuses for Trump by explaining he didn't really mean what he said.

I am reacting to what he actually said.

#34 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:01 PM | Reply

This is the point of the conversation where Trumpophiles makes excuses for Trump by explaining he didn't really mean what he said.
I am reacting to what he actually said.
#34 | Posted by JeffJ

So are we. Real men speak in a manner that makes their position crystal clear.

#35 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:04 PM | Reply

how many women and children need to die for you to feel safe?

#33 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

ISIS conscripts, imprisons, beats, rapes and murders scores of innocent people, including women and children.

The more decimated ISIS rank and file is - the less territory they occupy - the less ISIS is able to inflict upon the innocent.

Your point regarding an increase in collateral damage is fair, but it's incomplete unless you take into account the number of potential victims who are spared from ISIS predation because they are being decimated.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:05 PM | Reply

Your point regarding an increase in collateral damage is fair, but it's incomplete unless you take into account the number of potential victims who are spared from ISIS predation because they are being decimated.
#36 | Posted by JeffJ

Nope, America is responsible for its actions, not others. We are killing more women and children because Trump wants to act tough.

#37 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:06 PM | Reply

Nope, America is responsible for its actions, not others. We are killing more women and children because Trump wants to act tough.

#37 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

So, you are totally down with ISIS?

#38 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:08 PM | Reply

Since you love the new ROE, the question is how many women and children have to die to make you feel safe? if there a tipping point where too many innocents get killed? What is that number?

#39 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:10 PM | Reply

So, if the US, in its more aggressive approach to ISIS, results in the death of 2000 innocent people but prevents ISIS from killing 4000 innocent people and enslaving 10,000 more is a net negative?

These numbers are made up - trying to illustrate a point.

#40 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:11 PM | Reply

That he went on to say that he gives them authority to do what is right.....that's an admission of responsibility.

IMO you are making this about something that it is not.

Yes, that much is clear LOL.

We'll have to agree to disagree as I think we've said everything that can be said.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 07:12 PM | Reply

Trump says a LOT of things worthy of derision. This doesn't qualify IMO - this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

#42 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:13 PM | Reply

#41

Agreed. Anything further is circular.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:13 PM | Reply

So, if the US, in its more aggressive approach to ISIS, results in the death of 2000 innocent people but prevents ISIS from killing 4000 innocent people and enslaving 10,000 more is a net negative?
These numbers are made up - trying to illustrate a point.
#40 | Posted by JeffJ

Your point is fantasy?

How bout this scenario? If the US did a less aggressive approach to ISIS, results in the deaths of O innocent people AND saves ISIS from killing 1,000,000 innocent people and enslaving a brazillion more is a net positive? er negative?

You're illustrating no point, other than the US has decided innocents are legitimate targets of our attacks if it reduces ISIS. I for one don't think we should be doing that.

#44 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:14 PM | Reply

- this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

It's called, DR Rocket Fuel.

#45 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-25 07:14 PM | Reply

BTW IF the war on ISIS has some end game scenario, you MIGHT have a point, but since it is a never ending cycle of violence, we should attempt to slow the cycle down.

Perspectives, I suppose, I just feel for innocents and don't consider them collateral damage AND I consider them when evaluating the ROE our military forces use.

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:16 PM | Reply

if the US, in its more aggressive approach to ISIS, results in the death of 2000 innocent people

Ten thousand new recruits will join ISIS.

Remember. ISIS is a direct result of American interference in the Midfle East.

There are only two solutions.

Kill everyone in the Middle East.

Or

Withdraw from the Middle East. Accept the repercussions for our belligerent actions. And wait for things to calm down.

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 07:16 PM | Reply

Trump says a LOT of things worthy of derision.

Apparently not.

Apparently he's always misunderstood.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 07:18 PM | Reply

Nonsense Clownshack, victory is just around the corner! In fact, one could almost say Mission Accomplished (13+ years and running now)

#49 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:19 PM | Reply

only 219 killed in Iraq today, so victory is just around the corner!

#50 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:21 PM | Reply

No, he really does say a lot of things worthy of derision.

BTW IF the war on ISIS has some end game scenario, you MIGHT have a point, but since it is a never ending cycle of violence, we should attempt to slow the cycle down.

Doing it half-assed will result in more injured and more dead. IF we are going to battle ISIS it should be a full-fledged effort. If you want to argue that we shouldn't be engaging them at all and should withdraw all of our troops from the ME, fine, we can have that discussion. But, if that is not what you are advocating I'd argue that the change in ROE is a net positive.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:23 PM | Reply

But, if that is not what you are advocating I'd argue that the change in ROE is a net positive.
#51 | Posted by JeffJ at

sure, cause you live in fantasy land. Killing more people will lead us to safety.

So where is the tipping point Jeff? How many women and children have to be killed for you to feel safe? When does the ROE become unacceptable to you? How much violence do you accept? The number of innocents has greatly accelerated in the past 10 months. This is a direct result in the change in ROE. So how many innocents is too many?

#52 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:27 PM | Reply

Doing it half-assed will result in more injured and more dead. IF we are going to battle ISIS it should be a full-fledged effort.

BTW we had a truly full assed effort in 2003-2008. How did that work our for US and the Iraqis?

#53 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:28 PM | Reply

IF we are going to battle ISIS it should be a full-fledged effort.

How well did that work out in Vietnam?

Or Afghanistan? Or Iraq?

We lost all of them.

Killing them all is the only solution.

Because we can't admit we shouldn't be engaged in any wars.

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 07:32 PM | Reply

BTW we had a truly full assed effort in 2003-2008. How did that work our for US and the Iraqis?

#53 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

The surge was successful and the country was pretty quiet afterward until we pulled out.

Because we can't admit we shouldn't be engaged in any wars.

#54 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Are you saying that 9/11 didn't warrant a military response?

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:36 PM | Reply

The surge was successful and the country was pretty quiet afterward until we pulled out.

Paying the people who are killing you is usually called "losing".

Oh and the country wasn't quiet.

#56 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:41 PM | Reply

It was much quieter than it is now.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:42 PM | Reply

"Are you saying that 9/11 didn't warrant a military response?"

It didn't warrant attacking Iraq.
Do you somehow find a way to disagree?

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 07:47 PM | Reply

It was much quieter than it is now.
#57 | Posted by JeffJ

Paying people not to kill you is actually losing.

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-25 07:55 PM | Reply

Are you saying that 9/11 didn't warrant a military response?

I'm not sure if our actions after 9/11 were the correct response.

Clearly Afghanistan wasn't responsible for the actions of Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. We didn't attack Saudi Arabia. And Bin Laden was in Pakistan the entire time.

Then we continued to ignore Saudi Arabia and attacked Iraq, then Libya, then Syria...

#60 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-25 07:55 PM | Reply

I completely agree that invading Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I also agree that invading Iraq was a bad idea (full disclosure: I supported it at the time).

#61 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 07:59 PM | Reply

Trump actually says plenty he deserves being ripped for.

This is a stupid stretch.

#62 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-25 08:06 PM | Reply

#62

It's not possible for Trump to take personal responsibility, no more than he can tell the truth.

#63 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-25 08:45 PM | Reply

I wonder how many here are aware that US Military operations in Niger started under the obama administration and have been ongoing for approximately five years.

#64 | Posted by MSgt at 2017-10-26 09:52 PM | Reply

"I wonder how many here are aware that US Military operations in Niger started under the obama administration and have been ongoing for approximately five years."

More relevant: Does Trump know?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 09:57 PM | Reply

"I also agree that invading Iraq was a bad idea (full disclosure: I supported it at the time)."

Huh.
Why did you support it, if you don't mind me asking.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-26 09:58 PM | Reply

Can we get a shock collar that gives Trump a little zap whenever he says "great".

#67 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-10-27 04:05 AM | Reply

It was an ambush. It's not like the attack went on for hours while their calls for help we're ignored

#68 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-10-27 07:58 AM | Reply

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