Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, October 23, 2017

The U.S. Air Force is preparing to put nuclear-armed bombers back on 24-hour ready alert, a status not seen since the Cold War ended in 1991. That means the long-dormant concrete pads at the ends of this base's 11,000-foot runway -- dubbed the "Christmas tree" for their angular markings -- could once again find several B-52s parked on them, laden with nuclear weapons and set to take off at a moment's notice. "This is yet one more step in ensuring that we're prepared," Gen. David Goldfein, Air Force chief of staff, said in an interview during his six-day tour of Barksdale and other U.S. Air Force bases that support the nuclear mission. "I look at it more as not planning for any specific event, but more for the reality of the global situation we find ourselves in and how we ensure we're prepared going forward."

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Putting the B-52s back on alert is just one of many decisions facing the Air Force as the U.S. military responds to a changing geopolitical environment that includes North Korea's rapidly advancing nuclear arsenal, President Trump's confrontational approach to Pyongyang, and Russia's increasingly potent and active armed forces.

Goldfein, who is the Air Force's top officer and a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is asking his force to think about new ways that nuclear weapons could be used for deterrence, or even combat.

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This article plus the Article posted by BruceBanner a few days ago

"Trump executive order brings back retirees to military

Citing emergency powers, President Donald Trump signed an executive order late in the day on Friday that would allow retired military pilots to be recalled to active duty"

makes you wonder

#1 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-10-23 04:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

These are things you have to do if you're ramping up for nuclear war.

#2 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-10-23 08:43 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sure glad we have the money for this, probably tens of thousands a day, but not for schools and healthcare.
Always money for killin'!

#3 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2017-10-23 09:00 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The U.S. Air Force is preparing to put nuclear-armed bombers back on 24-hour ready alert, a status not seen since the Cold War ended in 1991."

I didn't know that, I don't think most Americans knew that. OF course they should be on 24 hour ready alert.

#4 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-23 09:01 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I worked on and around B-52s in 1967-70 (43151E). It has been almost fifty years, and I still can't stand jet fuel fumes, burnt or unburnt; or officers, especially AF academy junior officer ------ (01-03). When I returned from SEA, I was given the choice of an early out (88 days) or re-enlisting immediately. A promotion sequence number for E-6 was waved under my nose, as well as a HEFTY re-enlistment bonus. I returned to college, where the threat of the DRAFT rudely interrupted me three years previously, and completed TWO degrees. I used the Vietnam-Era GI bill, and the VA gives me comprehensive medical care for life. I WON! LOL.

#5 | Posted by john47 at 2017-10-23 09:03 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why? Does anyone seriously believe North Korea, China or Russia are planning to attack us?

If anything, its because we're planning a first strike against Russia, and Russia is aware of this possibility. Pretty f#%king stupid.

#6 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-23 09:58 AM | Reply

This is what having "Generals" in the white house.

war pigs.

#7 | Posted by klifferd at 2017-10-23 10:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

According to business insider the flight cost per hour for a single B-52 is $70,388. The fuel cost would be lower on runway alert but would be paid for more hours. Other costs would rise. pilot salaries for 24/7/365 vs only scheduled flight time would be much higher so my guess s the average cost per hour may be lower but the average cost over time would be much higher because of the number of hours involved

#8 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-23 11:08 AM | Reply

Doing the math if we assume lower cost/hr of $30,000 Keeping one B-52 on runway alert for 1 year =365*24*30,000= $262.8 Million /year

#9 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-23 11:10 AM | Reply

Holy crap batman. That has never happened before.

#10 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-10-23 01:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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If anything, its because we're planning a first strike against Russia, and Russia is aware of this possibility. Pretty f#%king stupid.

#6 | Posted by bayviking

Are you for real?

#11 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-10-23 01:41 PM | Reply

Piece of ---- i -dent posturing. the punk a*s isn't smart enough and doesn't have a handle on
his emotions so as to be able to arrange a plausible excuse for a 1st strike. if kim holds tight.

#12 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-23 02:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Does anyone seriously believe North Korea, China or Russia are planning to attack us?

You have been lulled into a false sense of security. There was a time when any of those three countries would have attacked us without provocation if it benefitted them. And if you think they wont, well, you are very naïve..

I don't know what makes liberals think that everyone else thinks like them. Just because you wouldn't attack anyone doesn't mean they think like you do..

#13 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-23 02:18 PM | Reply

"There was a time when any of those three countries would have attacked us without provocation if it benefitted them."

You think it benefits anyone to attack us nowadays?

How do they benifit?

Why did Nixon go to China in the first place???

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-23 02:35 PM | Reply

Just because you wouldn't attack anyone doesn't mean they think like you do..

#13 | POSTED BY BOAZ

yeah...but that needs to be qualified. cuban missile crisis..they left cuba but we also pulled
missiles from turkey. i don't believe that russia or china would launch first at north american
targets as it stands now. that's part of what gives kim an air of legitimacy when he pursues
nukes. we're sitting on his doorstep, he's not camped out in juarez or tijuana.

#15 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-23 02:41 PM | Reply

This is about North Korea, just showing them that we can turn them into a parking lot in minutes. Shades of MAD, unfortunately, but I am frankly not surprised.

Turning to Boaz's point, the majority of the US has no idea how many bad people there are outside the US that want to do us harm, both small actors and big countries. That delusion is promulgated by our isolation and strength and keeps people sane, but without either of those factors we would be in no better position than Europe is in terms of threat alerts.

#16 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-23 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

POSTED BY BOAZ
POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Bullies always live in fear of retaliation. It's what perpetuates the cycle.

#17 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2017-10-23 03:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bullies always live in fear of retaliation.

That's a good sentiment for a schoolyard or liberal public service message but not always true. Some live for the fight and have no problem with fighting..

#18 | Posted by boaz at 2017-10-23 03:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Bullies always live in fear of retaliation. It's what perpetuates the cycle.

#17 | POSTED BY TFDNIHILIST AT 2017-10-23 03:00 PM

Ok tough guy, why don't you go walking down the street in Nairobi, Maceio, Sana'a or Karachi and see how that works for you.

#19 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-23 03:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Ok tough guy, why don't you go walking down the street in Nairobi, Maceio, Sana'a or Karachi and see how that works for you.

#19 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

will you give a reason why we're taking that stroll or are you implying that americans just have
the right to roam wherever they please. what's the difference in a walk in saigon now and when
we were an occupying force. we are not the police force of the world. be honest protecting big
biz interests has nothing to do with the citizen who's probably the one who'll die in these
ill conceived foreign intrusions

#20 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-23 03:37 PM | Reply

Sniper,
No I'm not for real. But check these out:
www.globalresearch.ca
www.express.co.uk
www.telegraph.co.uk

#21 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-23 06:24 PM | Reply

Nukes on bombers seems like attacking in lines with rifles to me.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-23 07:43 PM | Reply

Nukes on bombers seems like attacking in lines with rifles to me.

That's what I was thinking. The B-52 component has got to be the weakest link in the triad.

#23 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-23 07:53 PM | Reply

Why would I go for a stroll somewhere that my country has made me unwelcome? You guys act like everyone just woke up one day in these places and out of the blue they all declared jihad for no reason whatsoever.
Bullies always feel like they're the petsecuted ones.

#24 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2017-10-23 08:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Nukes on bombers seems like attacking in lines with rifles to me.

#22 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2017-10-23 07:43 PM | REPLY

That's what I was thinking. The B-52 component has got to be the weakest link in the triad.

#23 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2017-10-23 07:53 PM | REPLY

It can carry 20 nuclear missiles with 1500 miles of range each. That's enough range to hit anything in North Korea, while sitting on a runway in Japan. It's enough to hit the Three Gorges Dam while sitting on that same runway.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-10-24 01:06 PM | Reply

It can carry 20 nuclear missiles with 1500 miles of range each. That's enough range to hit anything in North Korea, while sitting on a runway in Japan. It's enough to hit the Three Gorges Dam while sitting on that same runway.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg

OK so these are cruise missile-based warheads? I was envisioning actual bomb-type munitions.

What's the point of these over a submarine-based warhead? Flexibility in launch and maximizing birds in the air?

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-24 02:22 PM | Reply

"What's the point of these over a submarine-based warhead?"

It's a show of force.
For Trump himself.
He's playing a game called "bombers."
Trump has a hard time playing "nuclear subs" because he can't see them.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-24 03:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

OK so these are cruise missile-based warheads? I was envisioning actual bomb-type munitions.
What's the point of these over a submarine-based warhead? Flexibility in launch and maximizing birds in the air?

#26 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2017-10-24 02:22 PM | REPLY

Yes, very highly advanced cruise missiles with nuclear warhead options.

Pretty much, cheaper than subs, and the reloading time is of course far, far faster.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-10-24 08:07 PM | Reply

JPW there is no strategic advantage to using planes versus subs.

"It can carry 20 nuclear missiles with 1500 miles of range each."

And a sub has more missiles that go farther.

Trump is nuclear dick waving.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-24 08:36 PM | Reply

Bullies always live in fear of retaliation.

That's a good sentiment for a schoolyard or liberal public service message but not always true. Some live for the fight and have no problem with fighting..

#18 | Posted by boaz

Nukes aren't fighting. They are suicide.

People who live for the fight are the problem with our species.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-24 08:42 PM | Reply

I'd like to see our military shrunk down to a size that simply protects our borders, and the rest of it transformed into a humanitarian response force.

#31 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-24 08:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pretty much, cheaper than subs, and the reloading time is of course far, far faster.

I wouldn't really think either (cheaper or reload time) would rank high on the list of considerations if it reached that point.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-24 11:19 PM | Reply

Current events cast Dr. Strangelove in a new light.

There's a LOT of parallels.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-24 11:28 PM | Reply

It can carry 20 nuclear missiles with 1500 miles of range each. That's enough range to hit anything in North Korea, while sitting on a runway in Japan. It's enough to hit the Three Gorges Dam while sitting on that same runway.

So what purpose does the extremely old airframe serve beyond a photo prop?

#34 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-24 11:41 PM | Reply

It's a great, all around air frame.

This is a photo op though to continue building momentum to wage war on North Korea.

It'll work too, just go through the threads here and watch how many people stupidly label them as "crazy".

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-10-25 07:09 AM | Reply

I can't be the only person that remembers the ICBM test from just two months ago. This is more of the same.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-10-25 07:47 AM | Reply

"If anything, its because we're planning a first strike against Russia, and Russia is aware of this possibility. Pretty f#%king stupid."

That's just stupid. We are not planning a first strike on Russia, Trump loves Russia, he would never attack Russia. No sensible person could ever take your post seriously.

#37 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-25 09:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Some live for the fight and have no problem with fighting.."

And they are a curse on the world, always have been, always will be. They are also known as psychopaths.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-25 09:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It can carry 20 nuclear missiles with 1500 miles of range each. That's enough range to hit anything in North Korea, while sitting on a runway in Japan. It's enough to hit the Three Gorges Dam while sitting on that same runway.

#25 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

And it is the epitome of anti-stealth. You can see them coming hours before they get to the target. So lots of time to fire off your nuclear ICBMs before the bombers get there.

#39 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-25 11:53 AM | Reply

People who live for the fight are the problem with our species.

People like Antifa?

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-25 12:08 PM | Reply

#40

Nazis firing weapons at people and all a rwinger can come up with is antifa.

Figures.

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-25 12:20 PM | Reply

The career military man is having trouble identifying who lives to fight among our species.

I guess they really pulled the wool over your eyes when they changed it from Department of War to Department of Defense back in '47.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 12:21 PM | Reply

#37 danni,

Checkout the links in #21. There is no doubt US generals, playing war games, have drawn up plans for a first strike. Their underlying assumption, is they could take out Russian missile launch sites before they could respond. So what, that still leaves submarines, bombers, and portable missile launchers which move constantly. 90% of what our military does is a total waste and extremely dangerous to our well being.

#43 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-25 12:28 PM | Reply

So what purpose does the extremely old airframe serve beyond a photo prop?

And it is the epitome of anti-stealth. You can see them coming hours before they get to the target. So lots of time to fire off your nuclear ICBMs before the bombers get there.

The BUFF is probably one of the best designed, most durable airframes ever designed, and is continually upgraded. Nothing that big can ever be stealthy, but with improved avionics and missiles you don't need stealth:

The Air Force is surging forward with a massive, fleet-wide modernization overhaul of the battle-tested, Vietnam-era B-52 bomber, an iconic airborne workhorse for the U.S. military dating back to the 1960s.

Engineers are now equipping all 76 of the Air Force B-52s with digital data-links, moving-map displays, next-generation avionics, new radios and an ability to both carry more weapons internally and integrate new, high-tech weapons as they emerge, service officials said.

The technical structure and durability of the B-52 airframes in the Air Force fleet are described as extremely robust and able to keep flying well into the 2040s and beyond – so the service is taking steps to ensure the platform stays viable by receiving the most current and effective avionics, weapons and technologies.

The U.S. Air Force Has a Plan for 'Super' B-52 Bombers

#44 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 12:28 PM | Reply

People who live for the fight are the problem with our species.

People like Antifa?

#40 | Posted by madbomber

I love it when trumpers complain about ANTI fascists.

It shows how much they love fascism. As if we didn't already know.

#45 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 01:11 PM | Reply

"Nazis firing weapons at people and all a rwinger can come up with is antifa."

So because the Black Bloc spends a small percentage of their time going beak to beak with Nazi's, they're forgiven for all the other offenses they engage in. Like smashing ATM machines and throwing piss at cops?

Or are you with them in the mindset that if you don't agree with them. Maybe you can join them in November when they go beat up those with whom they disagree. I've read that they're also learning how to fight...something they probably should have done before they started picking them...but better late than never.

Get your pee bombs ready...never know when you're going to come across a banker or accountant who needs to be taught a good socialist lesson.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-25 01:13 PM | Reply

Get your pee bombs ready...never know when you're going to come across a banker or accountant who needs to be taught a good socialist lesson.

#46 | Posted by madbomber

Is that what the russian hookers call them?

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 01:15 PM | Reply

"I love it when trumpers complain about ANTI fascists."

How would you ever conclude that I have any love at all for Trump? In fact I was just curious if you're aversion to the fight was universal, or if it was limited? Because by your speech, it seems like you may share Corkster's opinion that the Antifa are perfectly justified in smashing windows, burning police cars, and beating up those with whom they disagree.

#48 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-25 01:15 PM | Reply

Oh no, a smashed ATM machine, how ever will I get cash out to pay my drug dealer now!?

How about, because you gave your life to the military, you're a warmonger. Does that work?

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 01:16 PM | Reply

How would you ever conclude that I have any love at all for Trump? In fact I was just curious if you're aversion to the fight was universal, or if it was limited? Because by your speech, it seems like you may share Corkster's opinion that the Antifa are perfectly justified in smashing windows, burning police cars, and beating up those with whom they disagree.

#48 | Posted by madbomber

I'm fine with antifa fighting nazis. That used to be considered patriotic, until trump came along.

Our whole country was antifa in WW2.

Now suddenly antifa are the bad guys and nazis are "very fine people".

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 01:26 PM | Reply

I'm fine with antifa fighting nazis.

Are you fine with them beating up people who aren't Nazis? Is it OK to beat someone up just because you disagree with their politics?

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 01:27 PM | Reply

Are you fine with them beating up people who aren't Nazis? Is it OK to beat someone up just because you disagree with their politics?

#51 | Posted by JeffJ

Of course not.

#52 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 01:37 PM | Reply

That's good to hear.

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 01:38 PM | Reply

"I'm fine with antifa fighting nazis."

You should be able to express your views regardless of how much someone else may disapprove. And Antifa has been beating people up long before Trump, and long before Richard Spencer. And of Antifa's targets, only a small number have been National Socialists or White Supremacists.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-25 02:36 PM | Reply

Why are you all automatically assuming all our enemies are human?

www.youtube.com

#55 | Posted by Pegasus at 2017-10-25 02:39 PM | Reply

You should be able to express your views regardless of how much someone else may disapprove. And Antifa has been beating people up long before Trump, and long before Richard Spencer. And of Antifa's targets, only a small number have been National Socialists or White Supremacists.

#54 | Posted by madbomber

Naziism is not a "view" that deserves consideration and protection along with others. Nor is white supremacy. They are violent ideologies.

We should not tolerate them marching down the street any more than we would tolerate ISIS doing the same.

#56 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 02:52 PM | Reply

- Get your pee bombs ready.

MythBomber and the Myth that peeing at people is the same as shooting at people, rofl.

People who live for the fight are the problem with our species.
People like Antifa?

#40 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You could have said people like Richard Spencer's Nazis, who have been shooting at people.

But no, and guess what? No one is surprised. Coddling Nazis who shoot at people, mostly black people, btw, by Deflecting for them to notoriously dangerous... pee-ers, is a rwinger trait.

And it's a really obvious one.

#57 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-25 02:58 PM | Reply

--Naziism is not a "view" that deserves consideration and protection along with others. Nor is white supremacy. They are violent ideologies.

We should not tolerate them marching down the street any more than we would tolerate ISIS doing the same."

What about communists, who are celebrating this month 100 years of communism and 100 million deaths?

#58 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-25 03:05 PM | Reply

What about communists, who are celebrating this month 100 years of communism and 100 million deaths?

#58 | Posted by nullifidian

Communism itself is not harmful to people. Its an economic structure. The deaths people attribute to communism aren't due to sharing wealth and resources, they're due to military wars trying to force that system onto people who don't want it.

White supremacy is directly harmful to people. A hateful ideology, not a legitimate type of government.

#59 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What about communists, who are celebrating this month 100 years of communism and 100 million deaths?

#58 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-25 03:05 PM |

What about them? Don't like them much, either. But it's the damned Nazis your president is supporting; the ones who recently killed a person and tried to kill several more.

There's something warped about how you explain things to yourself, to make them seem alright.

#60 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-25 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--Communism itself is not harmful to people. Its an economic structure. The deaths people attribute to communism aren't due to sharing wealth and resources, they're due to military wars trying to force that system onto people who don't want it.

You're ignorant as sin, but thanks for proving that "progressives" have a secret, or not so secret, sympathy for communism.

#61 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-25 03:17 PM | Reply

You're ignorant as sin, but thanks for proving that "progressives" have a secret, or not so secret, sympathy for communism.

#61 | Posted by nullifidian

And you suck at debate. I explained some facts about communism to you, and you light your hair on fire and start personal attacks.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#61

And that's the problem. Speak isn't against National Socialists because they commit violence, but rather because of their ideology. It's the role of sanctioned LE units to go after those who commit violence, whether they be antifa, National Socialists, or someone else. But those who don't resort to violence must be tolerated, regardless of how much you disagree with them. Even if it means allowing National Socialists or Islamic Supremacists to march in support of a cause they support.

And communism was harmful...it killed more than the Nazis. And it's more of a religion than an economic system. Mostly because it required its proponents to rely on faith as the primary means of evidence that Socialism was the future. Even while people went without and enjoyed a standard of living fart below that of their peers living in capitalist societies.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-10-25 03:26 PM | Reply

You're ignorant as sin, but thanks for proving that "progressives" have a secret, or not so secret, sympathy for communism.

#61 | Posted by nullifidian

What a sad state you've fallen to, nulli.

#64 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"100 years of communism and 100 million deaths"

I never did get a body count on the, oh, 400 years of Capitalism.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 03:41 PM | Reply

What a sad state you've fallen to, nulli.

#64 | POSTED BY JPW

I think Nulli's stuff is usually quite solid.

I'd bet you'd think so too if he was calling out right-wing BS in lieu of calling out left-wing BS.

And before you go there, I've always gotten along well with him and have had countless civil discussions where the 2 of us disagreed.

#66 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 03:42 PM | Reply

I never did get a body count on the, oh, 400 years of Capitalism.

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Go ahead and post it.

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 03:43 PM | Reply

I'd bet you'd think so too if he was calling out right-wing BS in lieu of calling out left-wing BS.

Oh please.

He's just spouting bitter nonsense, something that has been his MO for the past 6-8 months.

#68 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 03:44 PM | Reply

He's just spouting bitter nonsense, something that has been his MO for the past 6-8 months.
#68 | POSTED BY JPW

Haven't you read, What Happened?

#69 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-25 03:48 PM | Reply

"Go ahead and post it."

I'm asking because I don't know.

I guess Capitalists don't do body counts for Capitalism. They only do body counts for Communism.

"Isn't that conveeenient!"

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 03:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And communism was harmful...it killed more than the Nazis.

#63 | Posted by madbomber

If wars by communist countries count as communism killing people, then wars by capitalist countries count as capitalism killing people, correct?

#71 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 03:58 PM | Reply

you light your hair on fire and start personal attacks.

Says the Queen of lit hair and personal attacks...

#72 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 04:17 PM | Reply

--If wars by communist countries count as communism killing people

We aren't talking about wars, ignoramous. We're talking about States that murder or imprison their own citizens, and communist states hold the record for that in the last 100 years since the October Revolution.

#73 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-25 04:20 PM | Reply

"Go ahead and post it."
I'm asking because I don't know.
I guess Capitalists don't do body counts for Capitalism. They only do body counts for Communism.
"Isn't that conveeenient!"

#70 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I'm sure some left-wing academic has tried to come up with a number. My guess is that it was comparatively small.

#75 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 04:34 PM | Reply

"We aren't talking about wars."

Oh. We aren't talking about wars.
Those dead don't count, I guess.

"Isn't that conveeenient!"

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-25 04:46 PM | Reply

We aren't talking about wars, ignoramous. We're talking about States that murder or imprison their own citizens, and communist states hold the record for that in the last 100 years since the October Revolution.

#73 | Posted by nullifidian

You cited 100 million deaths. So either you are saying communist governments have murdered 100 million of their own citizens, or you're including communist countries' wars in that number.

So which is it?

#77 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 05:56 PM | Reply

--either you are saying communist governments have murdered 100 million of their own citizen

Yes. Though that's a debatable number. Could "only" be 80 million. Or even 50 million. Still the greatest crime of the 20th century. Which you make excuses for or deny altogether, Comrade Squeak.

#78 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-25 06:02 PM | Reply

Yes. Though that's a debatable number. Could "only" be 80 million. Or even 50 million. Still the greatest crime of the 20th century. Which you make excuses for or deny altogether, Comrade Squeak.

#78 | Posted by nullifidian

You're the one defending trump and putin all day, but I"M the communist?

#79 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 06:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You use to post on topic and sometimes quite reasonably.

I still do, in response to comments that are on topic.

Try it some time and you'll see.

Now it's just angry drunken rants, usually in the middle of the night.

Occasionally.

Usually it's just after a long work day and I'm tired, not drunk.

#80 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-25 06:40 PM | Reply

One of the more interesting links I have found on the "who murdered more" question is at historyofrussia.org:

WHICH 20TH CENTURY DICTATOR KILLED THE MOST PEOPLE?

Despite the horrific death toll listed above, Stalin doesn't hold the distinction of being the most genocidal leader of the 20th century.

Mao: 40 million
Stalin: 20 million
Hitler: 12 million
Leopold II: 10 million
Tojo: 5 million

In absolute terms, Mao Zedong of China is thought to be responsible for the deaths of 40-75 million Chinese (admittedly from a much larger initial population base). Again, most of these deaths are attributable to famine, and political decisions such as the Great Leap Forward which, alone, is estimated to have a death toll of 18-45 million.

Based on the estimates above of 20 million deaths, Stalin would come second in the list of dictators who killed the most people.

Adolf Hitler, of Germany, is probably responsible for 10-20 million deaths. Timothy Snyder settles on a total of 12 million including the deliberate murder of 5.4 million Jews. (This of course, doesn't count the 40 million civilians and soldiers who died in the Second World War itself)If you add in the casualties from the Second World War, though, which was caused by Hitler, this rises by 42 million to 50-60 million, which would the number of deaths caused by Hitler comparable in scale to those caused by Mao.

Fourth on the list of the twentieth century's mass murderers is a surprising entry – King Leopold II. The ‘Butcher of Belgium' oversaw a vicious colonial regime in Congo which killed an estimated 10 million people.

Rounding out the top five is Hideki Tojo, the Prime Minister of Japan during the second world war. An estimated 5 million civilians were killed throughout China and the Asia Pacific during his rule.

This still gives the Commies a serious lead over the Fascists (and you can probably include Leo in that column by all accounts as well.)

#81 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 07:46 PM | Reply

This still gives the Commies a serious lead over the Fascists (and you can probably include Leo in that column by all accounts as well.)

#81 | Posted by Rightocenter

We still got em all beat in SLAVES.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 07:51 PM | Reply

We still got em all beat in SLAVES.

#82 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY,/i>

Communist governments enslaved their entire population.

#83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#82

I love how Shreek desperately needs to denigrate the US regardless of the topic.

What a miserable, bitter little human.

#84 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-25 08:03 PM | Reply

I love how Shreek desperately needs to denigrate the US regardless of the topic.

What a miserable, bitter little human.

#84 | Posted by Rightocenter

It's called independent thought. I don't get brainwashed by parades and flags and military jet flyovers.

I look at what can needs to change to improve everyone's lives in america.

If that sounds bitter, then I'd rather be bitter than brainwashed.

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 08:07 PM | Reply

Hitler: 12 million

Over 80,000,000 people died as a result of WWII (source)

Let's give credit where credit's due.

#86 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-25 08:46 PM | Reply

Communist governments enslaved their entire population.

#83 | Posted by JeffJ

Really? Communist governments dont pay their workers, breed them like livestock, and rape them whenever they please?

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-25 09:17 PM | Reply

Communist governments enslaved their entire population.
#83 | Posted by JeffJ
Really? Communist governments dont pay their workers, breed them like livestock, and rape them whenever they please?

#87 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

In Communist countries dissidents were sent to the gulags and worked to death, or deliberately starved, or sent to "re-education camps". Their 'workers' were paid whatever the state deemed they should be paid and were then able to go out and purchase whatever staples their stipend could afford in a "market" devoid of any choices. In the US slavery was more harsh, but not dramatically-more harsh.

#88 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-25 10:36 PM | Reply

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