Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, October 12, 2017

While boasting about the U.S. economy during an interview on Wednesday, President Donald Trump made the bizarre suggestion that gains in the stock market actually reduce federal debt. "The country -- we took it over and owed over $20 trillion," Trump told Fox News' Sean Hannity. "As you know, the last eight years, they borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country. So they borrowed more than $10 trillion, right? And yet, we picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of the first nine months, in terms of value." "So you could say, in one sense, we're really increasing values," he continued. "And maybe in a sense we're reducing debt. But we're very honored by it. And we're very, very happy."

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Can't wait to hear his dotard responses when it pops.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-12 10:53 AM | Reply

"And maybe in a sense we're reducing debt. But we're very honored by it. And we're very, very happy."

WTF?

This is what Wharton produces for degrees? They should close down.

He is buffoonish orange clown, way over his head and a threat to the entire planet.

After 8 years of hearing the right bitching and crying over Obama, their silence on this idiot just proves they got nothing in between their ears.

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-12 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#1 It'll be Clinton's fault.

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-12 11:00 AM | Reply

And it makes truck drivers rich!

#4 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-12 11:50 AM | Reply

Just wait till they can invest the savings they will see from buying one Dotard's new cover nothing health plans.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-12 12:24 PM | Reply

comparing debt as a % to something like GDP has been useful but the value in the stock market?

wasn't aware that was a meaningful barometer of anything.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 12:35 PM | Reply

It's a meaningful barometer of Trump and the GOP's desperation for good new.

They can't stand "fake news" but they love fake stats.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-12 01:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Maybe all those people making money in the stock market should pay the same tax rate as regular folks to actually reduce the debt.

I know, I know, crazy commie talk.

#8 | Posted by bored at 2017-10-12 01:02 PM | Reply

There is a way for those stock market gains to trickle up to paying down the debt. Tobin tax anyone?

I like the idea of a 5% tax on the sale of any stock that has been owned for less than 5 years. That would go a long way towards stabilizing the wall street casino. Of course like any casino, they require lots of suckers. Free market freedom. yay.

#9 | Posted by bus_driver at 2017-10-12 05:01 PM | Reply

Hey Sheeple, come explain this one to us.

#10 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-12 05:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 6

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I love how the stock market during obama was a sham illusion of success, but the same stock market under trump is a sign of his awesome leadership.

Anyone who supports this monster is an absolute idiot.

#11 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-12 05:36 PM | Reply

He may be a psychopath threatening WW3, but at least he's stupid™

#12 | Posted by cbob at 2017-10-12 05:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

He doesn't even know what the stock market is? This is too much.

#13 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-10-12 06:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Dotard moron.

#14 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-12 10:06 PM | Reply

He's right.

Stock market growth results in more monies subject to capital gains taxes and other taxes.

Jesus.

Trump is an awful person on so many levels but let us at least hold our objectivity. If he says something that is fundamentally accurate, it's OK to set his remark aside and say nothing.

#15 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-12 11:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Stock market growth results in more monies subject to capital gains taxes and other taxes
#15 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

and you might even be able to make a credible case if we were assured that the taxes owed
would be paid

#16 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-12 11:56 PM | Reply

and you might even be able to make a credible case if we were assured that the taxes owed
would be paid

#16 | POSTED BY ABLOCK

The devil is always in the details, of course.

My point was, his statement, on its face, was trending toward accurate.

A) His statement was - a stronger stock market reduces debt due to increased taxes on capital gains.

B) Reality is - a stronger stock market reduces the deficit due to increased taxes on capital gains.

It's "B". However, A and B are extremely similar in concept when squared with the notion that a stronger stock market results in more taxes paid on gains and income.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-13 12:03 AM | Reply

#17 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Jeff you are a sensible person, it took 17 posts to explain it to these fools, don't waste any more of your time ...

Tax Revenue is at an alltime high how can people ignore this?

Its not a direct result, but an indirect one ... how can these fools not see that ?

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-10-13 12:15 AM | Reply

i'm not qualified to argue how the taxing regimen should be structured. but i can refer to
growth rates in the 1950's and the tax rate then. but more importantly to me is the disparity
of the average working person and that of the average CEO and the concentration of wealth
in the top 2%. rich people steal from poor people. for a solution look to the french.

#19 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-13 12:22 AM | Reply

#18 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

let's accept what you say at face value. who cares if it doesn't translate to tangible benefits for
the majority of the population.

#20 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-13 12:33 AM | Reply

Once again, giving trump too much credit

#21 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-13 12:38 AM | Reply

Once again, giving trump too much credit
#21 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

the only credit i would give trump is for always being exactly what he is. he's never deterred by
logic, truth or compassion. he acquires.

#22 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-13 12:51 AM | Reply

"If he says something that is fundamentally accurate"

Not when he's proposing more tax cuts than the taxes on the gains will provide.

#23 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 12:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

money.cnn.com

No, Mr. President, a stock market rally does not reduce the national debt

Trump is right that the stock market has added trillions in value since his election.

But higher stock prices reflect corporate profits. Shareholders and investors reap the rewards. When investors get richer, it does not reduce the amount of money Congress and the federal government has already spent and owes.

The national debt, which he correctly states is $20 trillion, is the result of the government spending more than it takes in. To cut the debt, Congress has to spend less or raise taxes. That would free up cash to pay down what the U.S. owes.

"The stock market's gains have virtually nothing to do with the size of the national debt, which continues to rise because government spending far exceeds government receipts," political economist Greg Valliere told CNNMoney.

OOPSIE DAISY JeffJ wrongo yet again.

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-13 12:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Tax Revenue is at an alltime high how can people ignore this?"

Probably because it's not true. At least not if you can pass an Econ 101 midterm.

www.truthfulpolitics.com

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 01:01 AM | Reply

Taxes have been lifted off passive activity and increased on productive activity since the fifties. Paper shuffling is no way to grow an economy. Capital gains tax rates are at an all time low and are only paid when a gain is liquidated. There are ways of reinvesting which differs any tax payment for passive investments, but not productive income. This bad policy rewards laziness, a issue conservative persistently lie about, especially libertarians.

#26 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-13 07:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So if you make money in the stock market you don't pay more taxes.

#27 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-13 07:54 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He also thinks that truck drivers have more than $5.45 million in assets and will be helped out if he wipes out the estate tax.

#28 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-13 08:02 AM | Reply

When you do the same thing over and over but expect different results it is the definition of insanity.

Bush cut taxes, created housing bubble, stock bubble. When the fed raised interest rates a tiny percent the house of cards collapsed. Donald Trump wants to build another house of cards. Those with money to invest will indeed make money if they know when to bail out with their profits, everyone else will lose jobs, homes, etc. The people who wrote these tax cut proposals fully understand that, it is intentional.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-13 08:32 AM | Reply

Danni,

The housing bubble was a product of Clinton deregulation and subsequent fraud in the mortgage and securities industries which Congress, the President, the Federal Reserve, Treasury and Justice Department ignored. The ongoing stock bubble is a product of historically low interest rates (Mostly available only to the 1%) which launched a massive stock buyback program whose effect is to spike stock values. It has no connection to the real economy which depends on sales and market share of each company. Those low interest rates have substantially contributed to real and imaginary stabilization of the real estate market. Tax rates, layoffs associated with mergers and offshoring amplified some of these problems but are secondary to the fraud. Otherwise, your speculative, musical chairs like analogy is correct. Some economists justify these deliberate efforts to hurt the American middle class by pointing out that they have benefited third world countries, especially China. These policies ensure the decline of the middle class in the USA. This violates our constitution which charges our Government with promoting the general welfare among other things.

What the average American now lives under is an Oligarchy which violates our constitution by ignoring the general welfare and is instead looking out only for the welfare of the 1%.

#30 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-13 09:30 AM | Reply

The taxes on gains doesn't pay down the national debt. Before that can happen, you can't have deficits.
For now, if you have less money coming in than going out, it'll never touch the national debt.

#31 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-10-13 09:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#2 | Posted by 726

After that babble from tRump, if they don't pull his degree Wharton should probably lose their accreditation.

#32 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-13 09:48 AM | Reply

#15 | Posted by JeffJ

He didn't say anything remotely fundamentally accurate when it comes to reducing the national debt - which continues to grow. He spewed a bunch of words he thought made him sound smart but he clearly has no understanding of.

And as far as Capital Gains taxes - you need to go back to school because you actually have to pull out of the market to have to pay them. And speaking frankly the taxes that will be paid on the market growth will have minimal debt impact. Keep in mind additional things like my Roth IRA - I won't be paying any taxes on it because they have been paid although the market growth has definitely helped it for now.

#33 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-13 09:54 AM | Reply

#30 | Posted by bayviking

Just to expand on that. The whole credit and housing bubble goes back to Jimmy Carter and EVERY President from him to the collapse. They all deregulated things and changed rules that significantly contributed to the collapse.

Deregulation is NOT good. There is a REASON things become regulated. Can it be stifling to business - absolutely but free reign capitalism brings disaster after disaster.

#34 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-13 09:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

He's right.
Stock market growth results in more monies subject to capital gains taxes and other taxes.
Jesus.
Trump is an awful person on so many levels but let us at least hold our objectivity. If he says something that is fundamentally accurate, it's OK to set his remark aside and say nothing.

#15 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

This is probably one of the dumbest comments you've ever made. You literally have no clue how the market or taxes work. Stock Market growth effects such a tiny fraction of potential capital gains taxes that its absolutely ludicrous to connect the two. In fact, capital gains can decrease at the same time the stock market increases.

Jeff, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

#35 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-13 10:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Hey Sheeple, come explain this one to us.

#10 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-10-12 05:04 PM | REPLY | FLAG

He's the Trump whisperer?

I thought that was snoops job after lubing up.

#36 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-13 10:59 AM | Reply

Trump is right that the stock market has added trillions in value since his election.

The only plan where an increase in stock market reduces the debt is switching to a fair value taxation of investment holdings where individuals would pay taxes on the increase in the value of stock holdings every year.

Until then it doesn't address shares held in tax exempt vehicles such as IRA's, 401k and pension plans that are exempt from tax. Nor does it address the fact that until the shares are sold there is no taxable event.

#37 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-13 11:05 AM | Reply

Hey Sheeple, come explain this one to us.
#10 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
He's the Trump whisperer?
I thought that was snoops job after lubing up.
#36 | POSTED BY 726

What Snoops does after that isn't called Trump Whispering...

#38 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-13 11:22 AM | Reply

When you do the same thing over and over but expect different results it is the definition of insanity.
#29 | POSTED BY DANNI

your statement, in context, is about repeating past failed, from your perspective, tax policy.

"tax policy" then, and as it is now, is the ruse used to steal. now and generationally. taxes have

the same thing to do with wealth as armaments have to do with war. this is and always has been

about people whose position has allowed them to game the system.

#39 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-13 12:09 PM | Reply

Gpete,

You may be right, but I don't know how Carter contributed to the problem. Fill me in?

The push to deregulate is Republican, but their blatant class warfare has backfired in that it rarely, if ever, led to kind of legislative changes they envision. That's where the Democrats come in, talking populist and legislating to undo the New Deal. Under the New Deal, the problems and criminals were identified by name and prosecuted. Democrats, under FDR, built national confidence and partisan credibility in the process. Laws were put in place to curb those crimes and protect the general public from the inevitable instabilities inherent in Capitalism. No matter how hard you work, you can still lose, but under the New Deal, you need not starve or freeze to death.

When similar financial crimes re-emerged during the S&L crisis, serious investigations put another 900 people plus in prison. But, during the 2008 financial crisis, the scandal was swept under the rug and the public was left with the bill. Bush and Obama adopted identical policies in that regard.

Some of life's risks have nothing to do with Capitalism, such as weather and health problems. Every industrialized country in the world except the USA has put single payer insurance programs in place (taxes) to mitigate those risks. In the USA farmers are provided protections. Pensions (long subject to Corporate theft in the USA) and are being virtually replaced with risky 401Ks in the USA, are safe in other industrialized countries. The mafia and labor unions have a better record of protecting pension values than US Corporations.

#40 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-13 12:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#40 | POSTED BY BAYVIKING

HEAR..HEAR, AS COGENT A POST AS HAS EVER APPEARED ON DR

#41 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-13 12:39 PM | Reply

"how Carter contributed to the problem"

Volcker as Fed Chairman?
fortune.com

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-13 01:18 PM | Reply

#42, which concludes:
For those who lament Jimmy Carter's economic legacy, remember how he elevated (Volker).. the right man at the right moment – a man who implemented monetary policies that helped get the economy on the right path by 1983...albeit too late for Carter.

#43 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-14 08:23 AM | Reply

The push to deregulate is Republican,

Does that count the repeal of Glass-Steagall by Clinton?

"What is Glass-Steagall?

"It's the Depression-era bank regulation that kept different types of financial institutions separate; then-President Bill Clinton signed legislation reversing it in 1999."

www.politifact.com

#44 | Posted by Ray at 2017-10-14 08:59 AM | Reply

If you don't pay your monthly credit card bill you increase your debt.

If you take off budget money to payoff deficit as an IOU then you push the debt on to a future date, this is why our SS is in the whole, it will become a future debt, and also become a future deficit when people need to claim such.

#45 | Posted by Crassus at 2017-10-14 09:26 AM | Reply

Stock market taxes is a delicate process in allowing corporations to gain enough cash to pay their IOUs

#46 | Posted by Crassus at 2017-10-14 09:31 AM | Reply

"labor unions have a better record of protecting pension values than US Corporations."

That's because the Trustees for labor union pensions are 50% management, and 50% worker. Also--in general--the management's Trustees allow the worker's Trustees to run the fund, and only step in when they believe their interests are being encroached.

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-14 10:30 AM | Reply

Former Wharton Professor: 'Trump Was the Dumbest G*ddamn Student I Ever Had'

www.alternet.org

#48 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-10-14 11:46 AM | Reply

#44 Ray, I said as much. "That's where the Democrats come in, talking populist and legislating to undo the New Deal".

#49 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-14 12:07 PM | Reply

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