Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 11, 2017

Russell Berman, The Atlantic: The regretful Republicans of Kansas have a message for the tax-cutting Republicans of Congress: Don't follow our lead. If states are, as Justice Louis Brandeis famously called them, the laboratories of democracy, then Kansas's experiment in conservative tax reform set off an explosion of red ink. Steep cuts for businesses and individuals failed to produce a promised economic boom, and busted the state's budget instead. Now, the GOP legislators that oversaw -- and ultimately cancelled -- that fiscal study are increasingly worried that Washington will ignore its central finding.

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"It was supposed to increase the GDP, and it didn't. The feds will have that same problem," said state Senator Jim Denning, a conservative who originally supported the tax cuts. In a phone interview, Denning told me he had done his own economic modeling in 2012 and "proved to myself that the tax cut would work." But the new policy did not prevent a rural recession in Kansas or a dip in its oil-and-gas business. "It generated hardly any measurable economic activity," Denning said. By the beginning of this year, he had changed course and voted along with Democrats and a coalition of Republicans to reverse most of the cuts, erasing Brownback's economic legacy.

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How can our friends be a state?

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-10-11 02:00 PM | Reply

abolish states gov.

#2 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-10-11 02:20 PM | Reply

so did all the Kansas state GOTP resign, or, do they want to just us to watch them bleed out?

#3 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-10-11 02:25 PM | Reply

where is Kansas? and how did liberals ruin it?

sincerely

The Entire DR GOPTP

#4 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-11 02:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

ALL HAIL DEAR LEADER!

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-11 03:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

as a rural kansas resident i can tell you one thing for sure...it's been devastating to public school funding

#6 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-11 03:51 PM | Reply

#6 | Posted by ABlock

I think your former governor was hoping you'd decide to go without public schools. By the way, where is he now, and is there a contract out on him?

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-11 04:12 PM | Reply

#7 | POSTED BY ZED

trump appointed him to some fundy religious BS. side note; i live about 20 miles as the crow flies from
his brother. a well known woman abusing drunk thief in linn county. truly

#8 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-11 04:31 PM | Reply

7

He's still our governor.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-11 04:44 PM | Reply

"It was supposed to increase the GDP, and it didn't. The feds will have that same problem"

"as a rural kansas resident i can tell you one thing for sure...it's been devastating to public school funding"

Surprise!

You can not have massive tax cuts without corresponding cuts to ALL manner of programs.

#10 | Posted by Tor at 2017-10-11 04:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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Look GOP learned nothing from Reaganomics. Kansas took it to an idiotic extreme. GOP has still learned nothing.

#11 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-11 05:45 PM | Reply

Actually the GOP learned how to scam people and keep them poor, with majority support from the people they are scamming and keeping poor.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-11 05:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

And unlike Kansas, the US doesn't have a California equivalent to subsidize it. Especially at the rate trump is losing us allies.

"If states are... the laboratories of democracy, then Kansas's experiment in conservative tax reform..."

There's the problem; Democracy and Conservatism don't mix. That's why conservatives hate democracy so much.

#13 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-11 06:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I doubt the Kansas fiasco matters to our national pols. I don't believe that most trickle down politicians are ignorant enough to believe it works. They just want to help the rich consolidate wealth. Their voters may be uninformed but anyone who had spent five minutes loling at the numbers would see that trickle down is a lie.

#14 | Posted by Sully at 2017-10-12 09:29 AM | Reply

All Reagenonomics did was change where the money went. Liberals fail to realize that all of the social programs they enjoy giving out to pay for everyone to live how they want to live is only possible because of Reaganomics. The country wouldn't have the budget to pay for all of the social programs we pay for today. The more money that came in, the more Liberals were able to give to the population. Trickle-down economics works great and the decades after it have been years of extreme growth for social programs. Seeing Democrats try to blast trickle-down is hilarious since they have enjoyed the biggest benefit from it from a political spending perspective. Trickle-down works as is easily evidenced by facts.

The issue is the same as every other major problem our government faces, nobody wants to address the challenges. Challenges don't get votes. The ACA did some good things but had some negatives. Instead of doing anything about them, the Democrats touted the benefits and ignored the negatives. Republicans only focused on the negatives. But when it finally passed, the measurement of success wasn't how well we met the challenges. Instead, all we look at are numbers to prove it either works or doesn't. All the while the challenges are still there and costing more and more money, making it impossible for Obama's promise of lower cost healthcare to come to fruition. But hey, who cares about costs that take money out of our pockets leaving us less to spend...at least there are no preexisting condition limits so the measured number of insured skyrocketed. Who cares that annual out of pockets went up by thousands for almost everyone who already had insurance...at least the government is paying the bill for those who couldn't afford any policy before and the measured number of insured skyrocketed. We focus on the good and ignore the bad.

#15 | Posted by humtake at 2017-10-12 11:55 AM | Reply

as a rural kansas resident i can tell you one thing for sure...it's been devastating to public school funding
#6 | Posted by ABloc

This is why Rs love it. People used to ask Bill Clinton how he balanced budgets. He's reply that it was arithmetic. This is why Rs hate public schools. If people learn arithmetic they won't believe tinkle down economics. If they learn high school physics they'll understand that global warming isn't a hoax. And on, and on...

#16 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2017-10-12 12:52 PM | Reply

Trickle-down economics works great and the decades after it have been years of extreme growth for social programs.

#15 | Posted by humtake

Yeah it works great if you live in a world of delusion.

If it works great, what happened to kansas?

Why is their economy in the toilet while california is the 5th largest economy in the world?

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-12 02:13 PM | Reply

"Why is their economy in the toilet "

Kansas economy is not in the toilet. The state government is experiencing budget problems in school funding continues to be a challenge but the economy is not in the toilet.

Beyond that you really can't compare Kansas to California in very many ways

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 02:17 PM | Reply

Kansas economy is not in the toilet. The state government is experiencing budget problems in school funding continues to be a challenge but the economy is not in the toilet.

Beyond that you really can't compare Kansas to California in very many ways

#18 | Posted by eberly

Where does school funding come from? The government. Why can't the government fund the schools? They cut taxes.

What did kansas republicans SAY would happened when they cut taxes? - More money would come in.
What ACTUALLY happened? LESS money came in.

That's reaganomics in action.

Only a moron would look at something that clearly FAILED in a state, and say we should do it on a national scale.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-12 02:33 PM | Reply

"Why can't the government fund the schools? They cut taxes."

That's only one way to under fund schools. The real reason is "because we want to".

Don't lecture me about how taxes and revenue work, speak.

You claimed the economy was in the toilet because your definition of the "economy" is wrong. You're just running your mouth.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 02:49 PM | Reply

"Kansas economy is not in the toilet"

YEAH!

it ranks at 46th worst in the nation, not the toilet

#21 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-12 02:49 PM | Reply

eb is right

speak should have said the Kansas economy is in the Dumps because of disastrous right wing economic wishful thinking, not the toilet

#22 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-12 02:56 PM | Reply

#21 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-12 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag: squats behind a bush...wishes he had a toilet

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 03:10 PM | Reply

Trickle-down economics works great and the decades after it have been years of extreme growth for social programs.
#15 | Posted by humtake

I love this comment!

The success of Trickle Down can be seen in the massive growth in social programs needed to offset the redistribution of wealth and income from the bottom tier of the economy to the top.

Put that way, Trickle Down has worked wonders, and now that Trump broke health insurance the party is just getting started!

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 03:19 PM | Reply

You claimed the economy was in the toilet because your definition of the "economy" is wrong. You're just running your mouth.

#20 | Posted by eberly

So i said "economy" instead of "budget"
And you think hiding behind semantics is going to make reaganomics seem like it worked, no one's going to buy it.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-12 03:41 PM | Reply

"And you think hiding behind semantics is going to make reaganomics seem like it worked, no one's going to buy it."

wrong again, speak. Not hiding behind anything nor saying reaganomics worked.

I get it...you're focused Brownback's taint.

Enjoy

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 03:46 PM | Reply

Point at Kansas and hope no one notices three Democratic run states that are actually bankrupt. How is New Jersey doing? How about Illinois? How about the fact that California and New York have both lost millions in population, because of sky high taxes, an over regulated and exceptionally unfriendly business climate or ingrained corruption going back for a century or more. Kansas' problems are temporary, mostly caused by the oil price crash. Illinois is much worse, y'all realize that many of the incarcerated violent criminals will soon be returning to Chicago because the state can not afford to keep them? From my buddies that come from that area, the big wish is for the sate of Illinois to kick Chicago out of the state, maybe give it to Michigan.

#27 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-12 03:49 PM | Reply

"Denning told me he had done his own economic modeling in 2012 and "proved to myself that the tax cut would work."

Turns out Denning is a graduate of Dunning.

Dunning-Kruger, that is.

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-12 03:52 PM | Reply

"Kansas' problems are temporary, mostly caused by the oil price crash."

Nonsense. Kansas' problems are because they slashed taxes.

They then had to steal (sorry, "sweep") monies from the roads, worker's pensions, and even the early child development fund.

When you're stealing from little kiddies' piggy banks because you can't balance your budget, the problem has nothing to do with oil.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-12 03:55 PM | Reply

"How about the fact that California and New York have both lost millions in population, because of sky high taxes"

Those are uneducated scrubs who can't figure out how to live on $10.04 an hour so they go to Kansas or wherever where life is simpler and $7.25 is enough to get by.

We are happy to see them leave. They have little to offer. California is out of their league.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 03:55 PM | Reply

"Kansas' problems are temporary, mostly caused by the oil price crash."

Doesn't it then follow that success in Kansas is due to oil being expensive?

Perhaps the deeper problem is that your economy isn't diversified?

It's funny though, that both Kansas and Iran are facing identical headwinds.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 03:58 PM | Reply

"How about the fact that California and New York have both lost millions in population"

ahem!

fortune 500 by state

55 New York
54 Texas
53 California
1 Kansas

#32 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-12 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Kansas' problems are temporary, mostly caused by the oil price crash"

well, $3 corn and other cheap grain prices doesn't help either....also temporary, I hope.

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 04:06 PM | Reply

"Nonsense. Kansas' problems are because they slashed taxes.

They then had to steal (sorry, "sweep") monies from the roads, worker's pensions, and even the early child development fund.

When you're stealing from little kiddies' piggy banks because you can't balance your budget, the problem has nothing to do with oil."

It doesn't have anything to do with $3 corn nor $40 oil either. Yes, our budget problems in Topeka are the result of slashing taxes...but $3 corn is screwing up a lot....but that's mutually exclusive from taxes.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 04:08 PM | Reply

I get it...you're focused Brownback's taint.

Enjoy

#26 | Posted by eberly

Reaganomics is the taint of the republican party. It's the part that suffocates you when they sit on their voters' faces.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-12 04:10 PM | Reply

"$3 corn and other cheap grain prices doesn't help either"

reminds me of the time your dweebs were running around claiming OBAMA and ethanol mandates were going to make grains unaffordable

now apparently, they are too cheap

How convenient

#36 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-12 04:10 PM | Reply

"Yes, our budget problems in Topeka are the result of slashing taxes...but $3 corn is screwing up a lot..."

Nothing compared to eliminating income taxes for 330,000 Kansans.

BTW, I remember reading where 8 of the top 10 groups affected by the tax slash were Koch Brothers subsidiaries. A 9th was Bill Self, KU basketball coach, who is paid a small salary and large pass-thru payments.

Must be nice to own the government.

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-12 04:29 PM | Reply

#36 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses Well, the fact is the corn raised to produce ethanol requires more oil than ethanol replaces. Ethanol fuel is a government boondoggle. Now if they used the ethanol to drink, that might be worthwhile.

#38 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-12 04:31 PM | Reply

Apparently many of your are still unaware of this....

www.usnews.com

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 04:37 PM | Reply

#32 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses, and only one of these top three states is actually growing, and it is neither New York or California. There really isn't much in Kansas but some oil,(not a lot), farming and ranching. Agriculture is not doing very well anywhere.

#40 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-12 04:37 PM | Reply

"Agriculture is not doing very well anywhere."

Because the President has made it clear that half the labor force isn't welcome here.

You're like Bill O'Reilly, not knowing why we have high and low tides, something the rest of mankind has known for centuries.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 04:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Apparently many of your are still unaware of this...."

I'm certainly aware; I follow KS politics closely. The tax screw-up may have been reversed, but the hole Brownback and his acolytes dug will take years, if not decades, to fix. He took billions out of the road fund. He delayed a billion dollar+ payment to the workers' pensions to the following year, so that year's budget would balance. He even took away the Early Childhood Development Funds, all for tax breaks aimed at the richest Kansans, and the richest Kansas corporations.

At one point, it got so ridiculous Brownback blamed the problem on a poor public school that replaced a broken-down piano.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-12 05:40 PM | Reply

Eberly is right in that it's good they've stopped digging.

But there are no plans intrinsic to Kansas to get Kansas out of the hole they put themselves in.

Because the GOP only has two ideas, cut taxes and cut spending, and that's how Kansas got in a hole in the first place.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

43

I saw him blame it on the legislature who passed that tax cut and made him sign it.

Of course, he later VETOs the bill to put the tax back in place and it had to be overridden.

At that point, he knew his name was mud as his own party overrode his veto.

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 05:45 PM | Reply

-Nothing compared to eliminating income taxes for 330,000 Kansans.

I'm sorry but it's not "nothing". Ag prices drive the economy very significantly in Kansas. 90% of the towns in the state are completely reliant on the ag economy to exist.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 05:48 PM | Reply

"41
You're stupid.
#42 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

What's important about comments like yours is what's not being said.

Specifically, you didn't say I was wrong.
Because I'm not wrong.
I'm right!

Agriculture is suffering because of the migrant crackdown. Funny weather ain't helping, but that's beyond our control, just like there is nothing we can do to stop gun violence, because we've decided guns are beyond our control, just like MMGW.

Something sure is stupid, I'll give you that. It's called Republicans.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 05:54 PM | Reply

"How about the fact that California and New York have both lost millions in population, because of sky high taxes"

California has not lost any population. It has been growing steadily

www.statista.com

For every one that leaves more than 1 come in. The population of New York fell briefly in the early 80's but has been rising steadily since then except 2016 when they lost a whopping 1,894 which is hardly "millions"

In addition the #1 reason given for moving out of California is housing costs, not taxes

#48 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-12 06:00 PM | Reply

"Specifically, you didn't say I was wrong."

I was busy. Too busy to address it at the time.

But you were wrong.

#49 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 06:21 PM | Reply

"Agriculture is not doing very well anywhere."
Because the President has made it clear that half the labor force isn't welcome here.

That's not why Kansas has ag challenges affecting its economy.

$3 a bushel on over a billion bushel grain production?

Lotta money, folks.

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 06:48 PM | Reply

"Agriculture is suffering because of the migrant crackdown."

In Kansas? --------. Prices are low because of Grain surpluses all over the world.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 06:50 PM | Reply

$3/Bushel?
$3 gets less than one gram of marjuana.
Ag challenges, you say...

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 09:18 PM | Reply

Eberly I don't know about Kansas but on the whole US AG is illegal intensive.

It was certainly a big enough component of the economy in WA that we provided health insurance to undocumented workers.

What's your take on the need in Kansas? Quick search found this article, "I need more Mexicans a Kansas farmer's message to Trump" www.bloomberg.com

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-12 09:26 PM | Reply

Supply of workers is a challenge no argument there.

But It's not dragging the ag economy down in Kansas.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-12 09:40 PM | Reply

Is the fact that kansas is an ag* economy what's bringing down the Kansas economy?

*not pot

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-13 03:10 AM | Reply

"I'm sorry but it's not "nothing"."

Try reading comprehension. I said "Nothing compared to eliminating income taxes for 330,000."

Can you find the salient word in that sentence?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 10:08 AM | Reply

Fine, to a farmer who loses $500K in revenue because of lower grain prices, it's nothing "compared" to eliminating their income taxes.

#57 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-13 10:15 AM | Reply

"Fine, to a farmer who loses $500K in revenue because of lower grain prices, it's nothing "compared" to eliminating their income taxes."

It's huge to him, sure. On a state-wide level, not so much. There aren't enough farmers losing 500K to make up for the eliminating of income taxes for 330,000. Not even close.

The drop in corn prices aren't the reason Kansas has a budget crisis. The drop in corn prices didn't cause billion-dollar shortfalls.

In addition, that farmer wasn't paying income taxes under Brownback's plan, even had corn gone to $30.

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 10:25 AM | Reply

58

I don't disagree with any of that.
This discussion was stoked by me a bit because I drew a line between "economy" and "budget crisis".

As you said, corn could be $30 driving great things for the economy but we'd still suffer a budget crisis.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-13 10:29 AM | Reply

"corn could be $30 driving great things for the economy but we'd still suffer a budget crisis."

The Kansas Miracle!

#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 10:29 AM | Reply

"It's huge to him, sure."

And the local coop and the local fuel, parts, farm equipment, etc etc in his local town. Pretty much the largest employers.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2017-10-13 10:31 AM | Reply

"And the local coop and the local fuel, parts, farm equipment, etc etc in his local town. "

Except, under Brownback's plan, those folks weren't paying income taxes in the first place. Their workers were, but not them.

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-13 10:40 AM | Reply

#30 | Posted by snoofy The problem is the 800,000 who have left during the last 7 years are the productive people, the ones that pay the taxes that support the worker's paradise. Hundreds of businesses have relocated to Texas. While CA might have grown by 5 million, but the job producers and the most productive are leaving.

#63 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-13 11:55 AM | Reply

#30 | Posted by snoofy The problem is the 800,000 who have left during the last 7 years are the productive people, the ones that pay the taxes that support the worker's paradise. Hundreds of businesses have relocated to Texas. While CA might have grown by 5 million, but the job producers and the most productive are leaving.

#63 | POSTED BY DOCNJO AT 2017-10-13 11:55 AM |

Wrong again. Its the opposite.

www.sacbee.com

#64 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-13 01:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Docjno knows nothing about everything.

He literally gets his "news" from white power websites like rense.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-13 01:28 PM | Reply

#1 scratch abstract thought from Sinper's list of skills.

#66 | Posted by jpw at 2017-10-13 03:00 PM | Reply

#1 scratch abstract thought from Sinper's list of skills.

What is this list of skills of which you speak?

#67 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-10-13 03:37 PM | Reply

#30 | Posted by snoofy The problem is the 800,000 who have left during the last 7 years are the productive people, the ones that pay the taxes that support the worker's paradise. Hundreds of businesses have relocated to Texas. While CA might have grown by 5 million, but the job producers and the most productive are leaving.

#63 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

Actually, its funny because the companies that have opened up in Texas can't find educated workers here so they are importing them from California and overseas...

By the way, this "Hundreds of businesses have relocated to Texas" statement isn't even close to accurate. It's actually only 100's. And its mainly moved part of their business or merely opened up another business here in Texas.

#68 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-13 04:47 PM | Reply

#64 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Great article. The only thing better than getting rid of California's most deplorable is knowing they are being shipped off to Texas.

#69 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-13 04:58 PM | Reply

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