Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, October 06, 2017

President Trump plans to announce next week that he will "decertify" the international nuclear deal with Iran, saying it is not in the national interest of the United States and kicking the issue to a reluctant Congress, people briefed on an emerging White House strategy for Iran said Thursday. The move would mark the first step in a process that could eventually result in the resumption of U.S. sanctions against Iran, which would blow up a deal limiting Iran's nuclear activities that the country reached in 2015 with the U.S. and five other nations. Trump's senior national security advisers agreed within the past several weeks to recommend that Trump "decertify" the agreement at the Oct. 15 deadline, two of those people said.

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Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said last month that he will not reopen the deal for negotiation.

Separately, representatives of Iran, China and Russia told Secretary of State Rex Tillerson the same thing during a meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly session, two senior diplomats familiar with that meeting said.

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I'll be surprised if this man doesn't lead us into a big war. And I'll be surprised if Iran doesn't get nukes.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-05 06:47 PM | Reply

I just don't get it. Walking away from an agreement which was keeping a country from completing nuclear weapons is precisely the reason North Korea is threatening us today. So let's do it again and expect a different result? We have zero leverage and would violate international law by preemptively attacking Iran without provocation.

This agreement is multi-lateral and the rest of the nations intend to honor its language, so all Trump is doing is isolating the US on top of forever labeling us as -------- whose word won't be trusted again as long as he's POTUS.

#2 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-10-05 07:02 PM | Reply

Good luck getting any more deals. Maybe we'll go to war with Iran and NK and whoever else. I wonder if Buffet is investing as if there will be a war?

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-10-05 08:17 PM | Reply

Bruce,

"Maybe we'll go to war with Iran and NK"

Maybe Trump is calling their bluff.

#4 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-10-05 08:39 PM | Reply

Hans,

Or do we want to kowtow forever to these countries because they play the crazy card?

#5 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-10-05 08:43 PM | Reply

Hans,
Or do we want to kowtow forever to these countries because they play the crazy card?

#5 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Yep.

#6 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-05 08:45 PM | Reply

Maybe Donnie is the one getting his bluff called.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-05 08:45 PM | Reply

Jeff,

Yep...what?

What are you thinking?

#8 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-10-05 08:46 PM | Reply

#3

Maybe he's just stupid and destructive.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-05 08:48 PM | Reply

I just don't get it.

It's easier to start a war with Iran than with North Korea.

Iran isn't protected by nukes and China.

Also. Israel and Saudi Arabia would be very pleased if we turned Iran into another Iraq and Syria.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 08:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

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Jeff,

Really...just asking what do you think?

#11 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-10-05 08:48 PM | Reply

#4

Maybe he's just stupid and destructive. I mean, what's the evidence thus far?

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-05 08:49 PM | Reply

Maybe Trump is calling their bluff.
#4 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

What bluff?

That was a rhetorical question. You're clearly talking out of your rear end hole.

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 08:50 PM | Reply

Bill,

You asked the same question on 2 different threads.

I answered both. One one thread I answered, "nope" on this thread I answered, "yep".

I was clowning.

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-05 08:50 PM | Reply

Bill could you give some examples of when we've kowtow to these countries? I don't recall that happening. Thank you.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-05 08:52 PM | Reply

Hans,
Or do we want to kowtow forever to these countries because they play the crazy card?

#5 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Yep.

Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-05 08:45 PM | Reply

We do every time we fill up our tanks with gasoline made from their crude.

#16 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-05 08:55 PM | Reply

Hans,
Or do we want to kowtow forever to these countries because they play the crazy card?
#5 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Hans hasn't posted in this thread yet, nor is this his thread.

Yet he's clear he's living in your vacant skull.

Kowtow? Obama slapped them with such harsh sanctions, they crawled back to the negotiating table begging to sign any deal we handed them.

The only one playing the crazy card currently is Trump.

Trump reneging on the deal only allows them to possibly pursue nuclear energy and weaponry.

Which. May be his intention. It would allow him to declare war.

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I was clowning.

Leave the clowning to professionals.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 08:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 6

Really...just asking what do you think?
#11 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

I think you're an annoying moron.

Any other questions?

#19 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 09:00 PM | Reply

"Hans hasn't posted in this thread yet, nor is this his thread." - #17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-05 08:56 PM

"You asked the same question on 2 different threads." - #14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-05 08:50 PM

I blame it on weed.

And, apparently, very, very good weed.

#20 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-05 09:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Dotard the Orange needs his war to distract 'Murica from raising their taxes and destroying social security and medicare.

"---- YEAH! BLOW UP THAT BROWN KID!"

#21 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-06 07:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

this is a seriously flawed individual. it's become apparent that he only has two entrees on

his menu. revoke every bit of government business that President Obama implemented, and

steal as much as he and his family can. the first can be traced directly back to the correspondents

dinner, when Obama publicly humiliated him and the second to a conspiracy of nature and

nurture that has produced the kind of aberration that periodically gains power and endangers

us all. i think his motivations are so obvious that if Iran and NK hold steady in their current

stance, that our generals will not allow him to start a third world war which, increasingly, he

is going to see as his only chance to stop Mueller

#22 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-06 06:25 PM | Reply

The closer Mueller gets to revealing Trump's collusion with the Russians the more Trump will threaten war and do everything he can to create chaos.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-06 06:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I don't think war will stop Mueller.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-06 06:42 PM | Reply

Republicans are in a pickle. Just as they bad mouthed Obamacare for years, knowing that it was no where near as bad as they made it out to be, they are now faced with a similar situation with the Iran deal. The design intent of the deal was to limit Iran's nuclear program which it seems to be doing. The biggest beneficiary of the deal is Israel. However, instead of agreeing that the Iran deal met its design intent, republicans want to change the requirements! And, since Trump is devoid of policy chops, he's just going along with republican orthodoxy.

Now, Trump is putting the ball back in their (i.e. congress's) court and I predict that the same thing will happen with the Iran deal as happened with the repeal/replacement of Obamacare: NOTHING. The cowardly republican moderates, that have been sitting on the sidelines, will have to finally engage to keep the loons in their party from mucking things up for us and the rest of the world.

In a perverse sort of way, Trump, by forcing the republican congress to act, is helping them save the party from itself. It won't help them in the short run (i.e. 2018) but should in subsequent elections. In 2018, moderate republicans will be primaried and many of them will lose to loonies. However, those loonies will not win in general elections in swing districts and dems will regain control of the House.

#25 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2017-10-07 06:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Every good idea rump ever had ended once the 2016 election was stolen.

#26 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-07 07:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump is showing the world Trump's art of reneging on deal.

Why would North Korea EVER agree to anything with America if we cannot be trusted to keep the deal we made with Iran.

Even a child could understand this.

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-07 12:02 PM | Reply

"Pleased to meet you , Hope you guessed my name"...that'd be Tom Cotton

A true believer in the vein of John Brown or John wilkes Booth. He's focused, articulate

and possessed by a messiah complex. This is one of the most dangerous people in the

United States. He has a history of ignoring the chain of command for political purposes.

This is a person who would justify WW3. He can't be called a coward but his 19th century

imperialistic based views are, when examined in 21st century context, laughable and dangerous.

He is a, and maybe the, prime mover behind the proposition that the dispute with Iran will

be dealt with on OUR terms or a pre-emptive strike will be made.

A far right evangelical provocateur who seeks power no matter the cost.

#28 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-07 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Couldn't agree with you more ABLOCK, Cotton is a very dangerous lunatic who appears sane and thus convinces millions that he is the voice of reason. His constituents need to wake the hell up and vote that lunatic out of office before it is too late. They won't because they are too dumb.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-07 12:20 PM | Reply

"Every good idea rump ever had ended once the 2016 election was stolen."

Every post that talks about the stolen election should be noticed, should be highlighted because it definitely was and the media won't report on it. Every opportunity to alert the population to the dangers presented by Kris Kobach should be taken, we must do what the media won't do and alert the population to the FACT that Interstate Crosscheck is actually an attempt to take democracy away from Americans and replace it with Fascism. Kris Koback is absolutely a Fascist who wants to destroy democracy.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-07 12:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

They won't because they are too dumb.
#29 | POSTED BY DANNI

The dumb ones don't pose the long term threat. it's those twisted individuals that exploit
the uneducated, fearful and desperate.
A great strength of our country has been to elevate the "common" man...and their opinions.
While a laudable idea, reality has proven time and again that average people have average
ideas based primarily on their own circumstances and experiences.
Those ideas are usually to parochial to address the problems that face a nation. A prime
example would be that you can manage a country on the same credit/debit model as your
home finances or a small business
That's precisely why excellent public education is vital. To expose the unwashed to the fact
that there are other positions on any given situation that bear examination and critique.
That's why the phrase,"the winners write the history books" is so very profound.
Because as we all know, a lack of that specific knowledge is a recipe for repetition

#31 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-07 12:56 PM | Reply

#30, danni, not just Kris, the entire Republican Party, that knows full well their loyal following consists of 25% of the electorate. Its cheat or lose, and the computer age has opened so many new ways to cheat. Kathleen Harris of Florida led the way. The lack of consequences to violating voters rights is intimately connected to the debate contracts which form a duopoly that effectively lock third parties out of competitive elections. The electorate are disgusted, which accounted for the rise of Sanders and Trump in the primaries.

But Democrats went an extra step. After McCarthy's bloody loss, the Democrats created the superdelegate system, which guarantees only approved insiders can become Democratic candidates. Republicans never did this, so Trump triumphed. Republicans are now promoting a conservative agenda which had nothing to do with Trump's campaign.

The situation is intolerable and unconstitutional.

ITS OUTRAGEOUS

www.youtube.com

#32 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-07 01:42 PM | Reply

Bernie Sanders in the 2016 debates said when asked about his ability to implement his

political agenda..single payer, college tuition..said," if people want these changes and are denied

by congress, I'd like to look out the window and see 100,000 in the streets "

Take it or Lose it...Sanders/Warren 2020

#33 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-07 02:15 PM | Reply

Take it back or Lose it for good...Sanders/Warren 2020

#34 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-10-07 02:17 PM | Reply

... the FACT that Interstate Crosscheck is ...

The conspiracy theory does not become a fact because you scream in out in all caps.

Maybe, just maybe, if you add some HTML like, bold face and a hyperlink to Palast's conspiracy theory, you can get the attention of voting rights warriors like the ACLU and the NAACP. So far, they and others are wholly unimpressed.

#35 | Posted by et_al at 2017-10-07 03:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How is CrossCheck a conspiracy theory?
And... what's the conspiracy?

It doesn't take a conspiracy for some Secretary of State to get a printout from CrossCheck and remove those names from the voter rolls.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-07 03:37 PM | Reply

7% of the US population moves every year. This will automatically generate enough names to flip our tight elections. But it gets worse. Kathleen Harris knew exactly how large her felon list needed to be to flip and she demanded that matching criteria be loosened until that number was reached. So they used felon lists from other States, first matched names, SSN, birthdates, then only first and last names. They kept going until the list was long enough to make Shrub competitive. Even that wasn't enough so they miscounted, obstructed recounts and ultimately SCOTUS stuck their dirty partisan nose in the matter, creating a ruling that Democrats could never use as a legal precedent. Its very public. Its outrageous. There was no consequence for these crimes.

#37 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-07 05:32 PM | Reply

"There was no consequence for these crimes."

Conservatives applauded the theft of the 2000 election and the 2016 election too. The refuse to even admit that Interstate Crosscheck played any roll in giving Trump a victory in several swing states because they are either idiots or worse, basically dishonest.
Et Al will be along to deny, deny, deny but he knows better so he falls into the dishonest category. As long as we allow the corruption to continue our democracy is dead. Over. History. Was nice while it lasted. Doubt we will ever see it again. I predicted the theft of the 2016 election because the right simply would not allow the SC to swing to the left so they had McConnell deny Obama his Constitutional right to appoint a justice to replace Scalia and then stole the election to insure that a right wing wacko, or someone who would act as one, like Trump would appoint another right wing piece of crap like Gorsuch. There is no act they will not do to prevent the people from actually having the government we want and need. It is virtually Fascism, we just don't use the term but it is the same thing.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-07 05:46 PM | Reply

7% of the US population moves every year.

Yes, that's why the Carter/Ford, the Carter/Baker and the Obama/Bauer presidential commissions on election administration all recommend voter list maintenance. Pew and the Brennan Center estimate that voters lists are bloated by some 12-18 million ineligible registrations.

The standards for conducting voter list maintenance are set by the NVRA and HAVA. The NVRA mandates that election administrators conduct list maintenance. States can and do set higher standards but federal law sets the floor.

Crosscheck is a tool that identifies potential duplicate registrations. Once Crosscheck generates a list of potential duplicates it is out of the picture. It has no power to do anything more. It cannot remove any voter from any voter roll. State and federal law mandate what election administrators, thousands of them, do with the list of potential duplicates.

#39 | Posted by et_al at 2017-10-07 07:11 PM | Reply

"Crosscheck is a tool that identifies potential duplicate registrations. Once Crosscheck generates a list of potential duplicates it is out of the picture. It has no power to do anything more. "

No ----.
Who said it had the power to act as the Secretary of State?
I don't think anyone said that, but no matter.

Crosscheck creates the list; the Secretary of State removes those names from the voter rolls
Are we in agreement on this?

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-07 07:29 PM | Reply

#39, That is correct. But it doesn't mean anybody voted twice, never did and investigations verify this truth. I would never vote twice, but the notion that me or anybody else would fly between the last two places I lived, SFO & SLC, is laughable. Who in their right mind would invest a day plus $500 for ONE VOTE? NO ONE. Its a lame story used to suppress the turnout.

The time and effort required to get registered twice, let alone take the time to vote twice in poor districts, where Republicans force the poor to wait in eight hour lines, ensure that it is a non-existent problem.

The alternative, where a partisan hacker can flip a thousand votes in thirty seconds is the only real threat. Nothings being done about flagrant voter fraud by partisan hacks.

#41 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-07 08:18 PM | Reply

"The alternative, where a partisan hacker can flip a thousand votes in thirty seconds is the only real threat."

The Secretary of State taking a list of names from CrossCheck and blindly trusting the list truly represents names that should be scrubbed is actually a very significant threat.

Without knowing if CrossCheck itself is accurate, there's no way of knowing if the Secretaries of State are disenfranchising people when they scrub those names.

This isn't a conspiracy, it's all right there in plain sight.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-07 09:15 PM | Reply

I didn't mean to disavow the threat that cross check represents. Most Republican cheating is in the open and without cheating they will lose.

#43 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-07 09:56 PM | Reply

That is correct. But it doesn't mean anybody voted twice ...

You're missing the point as well as demonstrating you know little about the subject matter. Voter list maintenance is generally not about voting twice. It's about cleaning up voter rolls that are bloated with tens of millions of ineligible registrations because the voter is dead, been convicted of a felony, is mentally incompetent, has moved out of the jurisdiction or is otherwise not eligible to vote.

#44 | Posted by et_al at 2017-10-07 10:01 PM | Reply

Posted by snoofy

I'll take you off my self imposed ignoring of your trolling for one post.

Are we in agreement on this?

No. Why? As demonstrated by your post 42, you don't have a damn clue about either Crosscheck or voter list maintenance.

The Secretary of State taking a list of names from CrossCheck and blindly trusting the list ...

If any of that were true then if would indeed be disconcerting. But none of it's true.

In most, if not all, states, voter lists are compiled and maintained at the county, not state, level. Crosscheck only produces a list of potential matches. Federal law requires additional steps be taken before a potential match is removed from the list. State laws typically require further additional steps be taken before a potential match is removed. With one exception, I have never read anything that remotely suggests election administrators "blindly" remove voters based on a Crosscheck list. The exception is anything that traces to Palast's conspiracy theory because that's what he wrongly implies and what his idiot followers believe. Since you too believe it I guess you're one of them.

And you're right, it's all out in plain sight for anyone with a desire to look. Copies of original Crosscheck contract documentation (80 something pages) are available at the PA ACLU website. State and federal statutes are on the internet. The DOJ has a page that describes list maintenance and removal procedures. So too the reports of the presidential commissions. So too case pages for two lawsuits out of GA and one out of OH (currently pending oral argument in the SC) where Crosscheck is not even mentioned in passing by the voting rights warriors prosecuting them. Lawsuits where the central complaint is that voter list maintenance disproportionally affects low income and minority registrants which is a central tenant of Palast's conspiracy theory. All of which, and more, I have linked many times.

#45 | Posted by et_al at 2017-10-07 10:35 PM | Reply

"Crosscheck only produces a list of potential matches. Federal law requires additional steps be taken before a potential match is removed from the list."

"State laws typically require further additional steps be taken before a potential match is removed."

Which laws?

"I have never read anything that remotely suggests election administrators "blindly" remove voters based on a Crosscheck list. "

Where would you imagine you might read such a thing?

Perhaps you'd like to point me to what you have read retarding the way election administrators remove voters based on a Crosscheck list. As a way of convincing me how wrong I am about what actually happens out of sight of judicial or legislative review.

This of course presumes such information exists, does it?

Thanks.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-07 11:43 PM | Reply

Like, give me the details on what exact steps were involved in scrubbing the Florida voter rolls in 2000. What matching criteria were used? What lists were consulted?

Or any swing state in 2016, if it suits you.

You understand what I'm asking for, right? How do they decide whose name gets removed? Is that even, I believe the term in your field is "discoverable?"

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-07 11:46 PM | Reply

they had McConnell deny Obama his Constitutional right to appoint a justice to replace Scalia

Let's not forget the role that Obama played in that drama. Obama had an opportunity to replace Scalia because Scalia died when the senate was in recess and he didn't. Republicans had been pissing on him for 7+ years yet he still thought that he could work with them. You would think that after being pissed on for 7+ years, he would know better. He didn't. Dumbass.

#48 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2017-10-08 06:00 AM | Reply

etal,
No, you don't get it. Republicans are cheating. Crosscheck is just one of a number of tools they use, which has been used to generate fake felony matches by loosening match criteria. It is especially effective in the Hispanic community where many share common names. There is no doubt Kathleen Harris's list was mostly fake, generated and regenerated until a target number was reached. Another dirty trick is to mis-allocate voting machines so that poor people have eight hour lines while rich people can get in and out in less than an hour. The last resort is the easiest, just change the memory register. None of this was enough Shrub to actually win in Florida in 2000, so the recount was obstructed and SCOTUS intervened on his behalf. After pretending that Shrub had won by 500 votes and seating him, it was finally determined that Gore had won by 100 votes but deprived of the Presidency anyway. The 500 vote story was widely distributed nationally. The 100 vote victory by Gore became a footnote in some of the last newspaper exposes. Similar shenanigans reoccurred in Ohio in 2004. The motive and means for Republicans to cheat again in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania remains and investigation in Wisconsin supports that suspicion. But since Republicans control the process and equipment, they continue to cover up their own crimes. Even when it is revealed, as in the case of Kathleen Harris, there was no effort to prosecute.

#49 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-08 08:26 AM | Reply

No, you don't get it. [Crosscheck] which has been used to generate fake felony matches by loosening match criteria.

Well aren't you cute. Clueless but cute. Crosscheck doesn't check criminal records. Here, get a clue about what the program does www.aclupa.org

I wonder why the PA ACLU let that investigation die in 2014. I also wonder why neither the ACLU nor the NAACP had anything to say about Crosscheck in three lawsuits where they alleged that OH and GA list maintenance procedures disproportionately affect low income and minority registrants. I suppose it's because they have better things to do with their time and money than chase idiot conspiracy theories.

Like I said, you know little to nothing about the subject matter.

#50 | Posted by et_al at 2017-10-08 05:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You've posted that before. It doesn't say how the matches were made.

Here is the title of one of your linked documents:
Right To Know Document Request (Purge information denial) - 3/10/14

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-08 05:24 PM | Reply

I just don't get it.
#2 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Trying to understand Trump is like trying to understand Stephen Paddock. A sane person can't do it.

#52 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-10-08 05:29 PM | Reply

"Crosscheck doesn't check criminal records."

Then who does?
And how can we uncover details of how that check takes place?

That latter question is the real issue. What do the Secretaries of State do with the list CrossCheck provides? Nobody knows. Nobody has legal standing to find out!

That's the issue, Et_Al. And you damn well know it.

To illustrate my point, here is some information from your links.

This document www.aclupa.org
explains how Crosscheck adds a name to its "Naughty" list:
"NOTE: If a voter's record is included on the list provided to the CEO, it means the records matched exactly on first name, last name and date of birth. For the middle name or initial, if the records are included it means they were either a match or a non-match (ex: James in one record, J. in another would not be excluded). Social Security numbers are included for verification; the numbers might or might not match." (emphasis omitted)

Next up, we have this document, www.aclupa.org in which the ACLU FOIA request to determine what Pennsylvania actually does with this list was denied. "Please note that the "Instructions for County Election Officials" and the "2014 Particiaption Guide" are Kansas publicatiosn and the Department has not adopted these procedures."

Leaving unanswered the question of "Which procedures has Pennsylvania adopted?"

So your assertion that these names aren't simply scrubbed from the PA voter rolls can't be substantiated, Et_Al.

Why do you always run from this fact?

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-09 12:52 PM | Reply

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