Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 25, 2017

From Governor Ricardo Rosselló: "We are U.S. citizens that just a few weeks ago went to the aid of other U.S. citizens even as we're going through out fiscal downturn and as we were hit by another storm ... Now, we've been essentially devastated. Complete destruction of the power infrastructure, severe destruction of the housing infrastructure, food and water are needed. My petition is that we were there once for our brothers and sisters, our other U.S. citizens, now it's time that U.S. citizens in Puerto Rico are taken care of adequately, properly." How bad it is 529 words From Manati mayor Jose Sanchez Gonzalez: "Hysteria is starting to spread. The hospital is about to collapse. It's at capacity," he said, crying. "We need someone to help us immediately."

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Government officials said Sunday a dam on the Western part of the island "will collapse at any time." Eastern areas, which were hit by the eye of the storm, could take years to recover.

Officials estimate it could take up to 6 months to restore power to the whole island.

Federal agencies have cleared the Port of San Juan for daytime operations, but accessing Puerto Rico is pretty difficult right now -- airports and harbors are severely damaged and the whole island remains out of power. 11 ships have delivered 1.6 million gallons of water, 23,000 cots, dozens of generators and food, per the AP. Many hospital patients are being flown to the U.S. mainland for treatment.

The death toll is at least 10 in Puerto Rico, and 31 if you include other Caribbean islands, per the AP.

1,360 of the island's 1,600 cell towers are down. 85% of phone and internet cables were knocked out.

Comments

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Don't expect trump or anyone from Wall Street to give a $#ck.

If you send any money to the Red Cross, they will spend 99% on themselves.

#1 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-09-25 07:11 PM | Reply

If people die of starvation or something like cholera I'm going to put this on the back of the man who deserves it, Donald Trump.

Lack of personal empathy means death to others.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-25 07:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of how many will die and to what degree we'll witness a preventable tragedy that others tried to warn us about while the President picked race-tinged fights with sports leagues owned by billionaires and some of their individual black millionaire employees: washingtonmonthly.com

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-09-25 07:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

yeah... i'd think we'd already have half a dozen or so navy ships already there with food and water and medical supplies...WTF?

#4 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-25 07:57 PM | Reply

From the FEMA Website:

All figures as of September 25, 2017, 9 am EDT

FEMA Status for Puerto Rico relief efforts:

10,000 federal staff, including more than 700 FEMA personnel, in Puerto Rico/USVI

9 FEMA Urban Search & Rescue task forces in Puerto Rico/USVI

Commodities

Delivered to Puerto Rico/USVI

Over 1.5 million meals

1.1 million liters of water

300 infant and toddler kits

12,000 emergency roofing kits

84 generators in Puerto Rico

27 generators in St. Thomas

En Route to Puerto Rico/USVI

124,000 gallons of diesel fuel to Puerto Rico

100 satellite phones to Puerto Rico

More than 50 additional generators

Other Actions

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): authorized FEMA and DoD to install and operate temporary water treatment units to provide clean water in the USVI

U.S. Coast Guard: mobile communications convoy is en route to Puerto Rico to help improve communications

Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the DoD: conducted medical evacuations for more than 100 patients from the islands to the continental United States.

Do you guys even bother to find out the real facts before you running in circles?

#5 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 08:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

before you start running in circles, that is.

#6 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 08:00 PM | Reply

"Do you guys even bother to find out the real facts before you running in circles?"

Do you? Is it enough? What are the people on the ground saying? Are there only 300 infants and toddlers in Puerto Rico? Will 163 generators be enough to cover the need?

#7 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 08:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Do you guys even bother to find out the real facts before you running in circles?

#5 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-

Let's see how the "real facts" develop. The word to date is that the response has been slow and inadequate. Donald has a chance to prove himself here, and I think he'll dump it. Because he doesn't think he needs to prove any damned thing, and because he doesn't like people.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-25 08:12 PM | Reply

#7

Considering its only been 4 days since Maria hit, I would say 1.5 Million Meals, 1.1 Million liters of water and 12,000 roof repair kits is a good start. I am sure that is only the beginning.

#9 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 08:13 PM | Reply

Do you read your own statistics? There are 3.5 million people on Puerto Rico. How far will 1.5 million meals go? 1.1 million liters of water? What about distribution when roads are impassable? Everyone that bothered knows that PR's grid is destroyed, unsalvageable. Why haven't we expedited stop-gap measures commiserate to their need, not some checklist of supplies that mean nothing until they reach people who can use them? And then what is the ongoing plan to resupply and requisition all the raw materials and equipment necessary to rebuild PR?

Instead of just throwing numbers into the debate why not try and internalize the problems that are only going to exacerbate over the coming weeks and months and whether our government is taking the immediate steps necessary to keep a humanitarian crisis from threatening so many citizens.

Until I read this story I wouldn't have visualized the enormity of the task ahead of us. And I hadn't thought of the fact many, many people in PR will soon be fighting for their lives as the response from the mainland is both minimal and muted at present. People are going to die, for I see no way that everyone in distress on that island will be reachable in their upcoming times of need. I certainly hope I'm wrong and I'll rejoice if proven so. Talking about doing something tomorrow is not doing something today.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-09-25 08:15 PM | Reply

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Relax.
Christian charities are making sure everyone is okay.
Right, Christians?

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-25 08:16 PM | Reply

Right, Christians?

#11 | Posted by snoofy at

Many are. But we can't get there in time. We need help to help the Puerto Ricans.

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-25 08:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump is sending some of his best people down there to investigate.

They cannot believe what they're finding. You'll be very surprised.

Trump will reveal his findings "when the time is right".

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-09-25 08:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How far will 1.5 million meals go? 1.1 million liters of water? What about distribution when roads are impassable? Everyone that bothered knows that PR's grid is destroyed, unsalvageable. Why haven't we expedited stop-gap measures commiserate to their need, not some checklist of supplies that mean nothing until they reach people who can use them? And then what is the ongoing plan to resupply and requisition all the raw materials and equipment necessary to rebuild PR?

It's been 4 days, it took two days to reopen the harbors and airports, the Army Corps of Engineers is trying to reopen roads. These things need to be flown in and sent by ship, it's a freaking island. If you understand anything about logistics you would know that getting this much support onto an island that is almost 1000 miles from Miami (who have their own issues if you forgot) is pretty amazing to do in 2 days. Most cargo ships take a day to load and steam at around 23 knots (26 miles/hr) so we are talking a 40 hour transit from Miami, even longer from ports on the gulf coast.

The Feds have 10,000 people on the island, it's not like they are ignoring it.

#14 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 08:33 PM | Reply

How much has trump stood in the way of the relief efforts?

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 08:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

That's a leaders job, to not stand in the way? ;)

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-25 08:55 PM | Reply

The Feds have 10,000 people on the island...

Fortunately they haven't been drowned in a bathtub yet.

#17 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-09-25 09:02 PM | Reply

16

Other than not open his mouth for a few moments about the NFL, what would you have him do?

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 09:03 PM | Reply

I think he's doing fine. Isn't the whole goal of his presidency to just flush the country down the toilet?

Perhaps thing he should do is this: Grant Puerto Rico their independence.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-25 09:05 PM | Reply

But if that wasn't the outcome you were hoping for then he should get out in front of it, make it a point at a press conference to ask for help ask for unity etc.

Maybe he did all this, and I just don't know. If so good for him.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-25 09:06 PM | Reply

I'm sure trump couldn't care less about Puerto Rico.

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 09:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Other than not open his mouth for a few moments about the NFL, what would you have him do?

#18 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-09-25 09:03 PM | FLAG:

Work. Do things the POTUS can do to help states.

#22 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 09:14 PM | Reply

22

So you don't know. You just want to whine.

Carry on.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 09:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#23 - play stupid. good boy.

#24 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 09:25 PM | Reply

We know you're not playing.

#25 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 09:26 PM | Reply

So let's look at that Yuuuge list of things tat have been sent to Puerto Rico. 23000 cots, thats only 13000 more than the FEMA workers need. 1.1 million liters of water. There is no other clean water and they need 7 million liters PER DAY. 124,000 gallons of diesel fuel? Thats enough to power 1200 small homes for a week but they only have 160 generators anuway.

#26 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-09-25 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No no. Don't you know, the POTUS is no longer responsible for what goes on in America. He's just good for bullying and molesting. Thank you conservatives for elevating the office.

#27 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 09:43 PM | Reply

i'd think we'd already have half a dozen or so navy ships already there with food and water and medical supplies...WTF? - #4 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-25 07:57 PM
Where do you expect those navy ships to come from? Are they going to teleport through the hurricane sitting between Norfolk and PR?

Is it enough? What are the people on the ground saying? - #7 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 08:04 PM
Puerto Rico Officials Praise Trump Admin for Response to Hurricane Maria
You trust the people on the ground then?

"On the ground or in transit to Puerto Rico -- FEMA, US DOD, US DOE, US National Guard, US Coast Guard, Marines, 3 state national guard"

#28 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-25 10:11 PM | Reply

Romney: Put aside controversies, prioritize Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands

thehill.com

Wishful thinking, Mitt. Dotard is as incompetent as he is bloated.

#29 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-09-25 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


‘This Is Chaos': Day 5 in Storm-Ravaged, Blacked-Out Puerto Rico

...A nursing home in San Juan desperately pleaded for diesel as its power generator ran low. An elderly man was carried out on a stretcher after going a week without dialysis. Children wearing nothing but diapers camped out on balconies to stay cool.

Hurricane Maria, which smashed into the island five days ago and devastated the power grid run by Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority, couldn't have come at a worse time. This is Puerto Rico's hottest time of the year -- and virtually no one has air conditioning. Crews have descended upon the island to begin the arduous task of resurrecting what was already an aging and long-neglected system. But that'll take weeks, if not months -- meaning more sleepless nights for those like Juan Bautista Gonzalez.

"It's brutal," said Gonzalez, a 36-year-old carpenter who was sitting on a stoop in Old San Juan rubbing his forehead in frustration. "No one can sleep. I spend all night tossing and turning. This is chaos."

The destruction that Maria exacted upon Puerto Rico's fragile electricity system when it slammed ashore as a Category 4 storm is unprecedented -- not just for the island but for all of the U.S. More than half of the territory's towers may be down, at least 90 percent of its distribution lines damaged or destroyed and almost all overhead transmission lines affected, according to the American Public Power Association and Energy Department. All told, Maria could end up resulting in $40 billion to $85 billion in insured losses across the Caribbean....


#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-25 10:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#28

Next three days will tell, won't it? Let's see the body count. Then let's see how much responsibility Donald takes.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-25 10:30 PM | Reply

"Then let's see how much responsibility Donald takes."

I know this will be viewed as a defense for trump but it isn't.

How much responsibility? Roughly as much as Hillary would take.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So it should not be viewed as support for Trump, but purely as a Hillary deflection. Got it.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-25 10:38 PM | Reply

#32

Don't view it a Trump defense. But Donald's the one in power.

Nice if he would behave as if the rest of us weren't treated by the man like frogs in a jar waiting for chloroform and dissection.

Donald gets into more ---- in ten days than any other million men.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-25 10:40 PM | Reply

#32 !!! haha.... what??? oh boy....

#35 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-25 10:40 PM | Reply

33

That's fair, actually. It's a Hillary deflection.

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-25 10:40 PM | Reply

@#30

Wow, forgot to include the URL.

‘This Is Chaos': Day 5 in Storm-Ravaged, Blacked-Out Puerto Rico
www.bloomberg.com

#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-25 10:56 PM | Reply

Donald gets into more ---- in one day than any other million men.

FTFY

The problem is, he revels in it.

#38 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 11:20 PM | Reply

Puerto Rico never voted for Trump. In his mind they are 2nd class citizens who have no wealth or votes.The real crisis for Donald's Goldman Sachs cabinet is how to bail out/socialize the losses now that the collateral their Wall Street friends hold has become valueless.The banks are going to do fine here is the message from the big D.

#39 | Posted by Scotty at 2017-09-25 11:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Airports and ports have been open since Saturday afternoon, let's take a look at your snark:

23000 cots, thats only 13000 more than the FEMA workers need.

So they sent in 13000 cots for people who have nowhere to sleep in 48 hours. Assuming each cot weighs 10 pounds, that is 65 tons of cots.

1.1 million liters of water. One of the coolest things about the metric system is that 1 liter of fluid weighs 1 Kg, or 2.2 lbs. That means that 1,210 tons of water was sent in 48 hours.

There is no other clean water and they need 7 million liters PER DAY.

There are 14 major reservoirs in Puerto Rico, each averaging around 40 million cubic meters of water. PREPA is working on trucking water to every town in PR now with the help of the US Army Corps of Engineers, and according to FEMA has about 85% coverage as of 9:00 EDT tonight.

124,000 gallons of diesel fuel? Thats enough to power 1200 small homes for a week but they only have 160 generators anuway.

Once again, a gallon of fluid weighs 8.4 lbs, so another 520 tons of fuel sent in 48 hours.

So the Feds have airlifted, in a 48 hour span, over 1,300 tons of the supplies you are bitching about (plus 1.1 million meals, over 100 industrial sized generators, 12,000 roofing kits amongst other supplies) into Puerto Rico and supply ships are going to be docking regularly over the next week. That is the wt equivalent of 10 C-5M's flying into Puerto Rico a day. It takes about 6 hours to load/offload a C-5, plus a 4 hour flight time each way, so that is pretty amazing when you do the math.

The Governor of Puerto Rico has nothing but good things to say about the Feds initial response, but to the DR Left, the world is ending.

#40 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-25 11:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


@#40 ... The Governor of Puerto Rico has nothing but good things to say about the Feds initial response, ...

Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello begs Pentagon for more resources in wake of Hurricane Maria
www.nydailynews.com (Monday, Sep 25, 2017)

... Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rossello urged the Pentagon for more search-and-rescue help and humanitarian resources to help overcome the island's "complete devastation."

Rossello also called on Congress to treat Puerto Rico like a state in any comprehensive emergency aid package.

"Whatever relief package we have, whatever impact we have, we are U.S. citizens," Rossello told Politico Sunday night. "We shouldn't be the lesser for it."

According to FEMA, 4,000 U.S. Army Reserve members have been deployed to Puerto Rico and more than 1,600 National Guard troops have responded to Hurricane Maria.

Additionally, the U.S. Northern Command, which provides military support for civil authorities, is aiding in the relief efforts, FEMA said.

It may not be enough.

Hospitals in the U.S. commonwealth are scrambling to secure fuel to keep generators running, with some evacuating patients in serious condition, four days after the island was hit with the biggest storm in decades....


... the DR Left, the world is ending. ...

To me, it looks as if it is the Puerto Ricans who are saying the world is ending.

#41 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 12:53 AM | Reply


My point of #41 is the following...

Instead of spewing all manner of numbers of tonnage shipped and other mundane information, we should be talking about, for example, the number of hospitals returned to full operation.

Tonnage is impressive because most people think in ounces and pounds.

When you're talking about a commonwealth, tonnage may be impressive to the regular person but pretty useless when trying to grasp the assistance provided.

How many hospitals were brought back online?

How many people now have water to drink? How many don't?

How many people now have something to eat this evening? How many don't?

Puerto Rico is people. Talk about people, and how they are being helped.

#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 01:09 AM | Reply

"... the DR Left, the world is ending. ... "

the dr left thinks millions of people in dire straights is something to worry about.. don't they know its just mexicans in puerto rico - 45's dotards

#43 | Posted by klifferd at 2017-09-26 01:14 AM | Reply

One brings what is available to bring. Just because there are needs does not mean that the materials/equipment/supplies & manpower are available in the time and amount that would be 'satisfactory' -- but hey, what would many here understand about LOGISTICS. Only the left would expect/demand instant gratification.

lo·gis·tics
ləˈjistiks/Submit
noun
the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.

synonyms: organization, planning, plans, management, arrangement, administration, orchestration, coordination, execution, handling, running
"the logistics of deploying forces in the field"

#44 | Posted by MSgt at 2017-09-26 01:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


@#44 ... One brings what is available to bring ...

Agreed. You cannot airlift supplies that do not exist.

But the point I was raising was about the reporting of what is brought and how the benefit is being measured.

Is the reporting done to impress, or is it done to report upon the actual good the supplies are bringing?

At the risk of being repetitious...

.

How many hospitals were brought back online?

How many people now have water to drink? How many don't?

How many people now have something to eat this evening? How many don't?

Puerto Rico is people. Talk about people, and how they are being helped.

#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 01:58 AM | Reply

I think part of the problem is the reliance on cell phones for communications. There are still central telephone offices that can set up communications with the installation of a phone bank. Regardless if the phone lines are down you only need the Trunk lines to establish a link to outside contacts. Central Phone offices are designed for the worst calamities. PR is not a big island, and it shouldn't be hard to establish disaster camps where people can go to get aid and a place to stay without being stuck in a devastated village or town.
PR is not a third world country but part of the US with US citizens, our government just needs to work harder to help our citizens in PR. Trump did well for Houston and he needs to strategize a plan to get PR back on it's feet. He really needs to stop whining and get to work.

#46 | Posted by Badcat at 2017-09-26 02:10 AM | Reply


@#44 ... Just because there are needs does not mean that the materials/equipment/supplies & manpower are available in the time and amount that would be 'satisfactory' -- but hey, what would many here understand about LOGISTICS. Only the left would expect/demand instant gratification. ...

fwiw...

As an ex-Republican, I don't identify myself as "The Left." But since you seem to be replying to a comment of mine, I'll answer.

Please cite my statement where I said that ~because there are needs does not mean that the materials/equipment/supplies & manpower are available in the time and amount that would be 'satisfactory'~

Indeed, I am left to wonder just what you are trying to gainsay.

Was it something I said? If so, you have grossly misinterpreted my position.

#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 02:12 AM | Reply

@#48 ... Central Phone offices are designed for the worst calamities ...

Yup. In some respects landlines can be more resilient than cellular.

But have you seen the pictures of the telephone poles in Puerto Rico?

They're not in a good place.

On the other hand, after the disaster, it is far easier to set up temporary cellular towers that allow cell phone communication.

#48 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 02:17 AM | Reply

That is why I was talking trunk lines they are basically armored cables that move communications to undersea cables and radio towers. Most were put underground for exactly that they are made to be resilient. PR was serviced by Western Electric for the longest time and as an ex employee I know they didn't skimp on construction of central telephone offices or landline distribution centers. I assume there probably some damage to these offices but the electronic bays can just be dried out and put back into service. Hopefully they are doing that right now!

#49 | Posted by Badcat at 2017-09-26 02:25 AM | Reply


@#49 ... That is why I was talking trunk lines they are basically armored cables that move communications to undersea cables and radio towers. ...

From what I've heard from network operators, the undersea cable landing points on Puerto Rico are less than functional. They have power problems. They are being brought back on line as quickly as possible.

But back to my point, even if the communication makes it to the central office, the lines to the homes are down. I'll repeat, have you seen the telephone poles in Puerto Rico?

Now, I agree it may be easier to reestablish cell communications, as temporary cell towers can be airlifted and be mobile.

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-09-26 02:33 AM | Reply

Yes, the land lines or tel poles are destroyed and will take months to repair, i missed your point. Cell towers are probably easier to get up but again, cell phones need a source of power to recharge. Telephones or landlines get their power from the wire itself. I was proposing that it would be easier to establish an emergency phone bank at a central telephone office and not using the wiring infrastructure that has been destroyed in the storm.

#51 | Posted by Badcat at 2017-09-26 02:47 AM | Reply

Might be time to supply small solar/wind power generating units. Not only for the immediate, but as a way to diversify their power grid away from a centralized/vulnerable power grid system.

#52 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2017-09-26 04:29 AM | Reply

solarpower.com

#53 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2017-09-26 04:51 AM | Reply

There is only one way to get Trump to give a $#it about Puerto Rico, give him a hotel there.

#54 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-09-26 06:55 AM | Reply

Puerto Rico power grid rebuild after hurricane faces big hurdles
Some excerpts:
"what is expected to be a months-long effort to rebuild the island's power system"
"A full damage assessment has been difficult because of the limited ability to get flights to the island and as federal agencies have been concentrating on life-saving efforts and providing power to crucial infrastructure like hospitals."
"about 55 percent of the island's transmission towers have been destroyed"
"About 90 percent of the distribution network... is out of commission"
"91 percent of cellular sites in Puerto Rico remain out of service"
"Broken transmission towers ... may need to be airlifted off the island, rebuilt, and then transported back"
"PREPA's equipment was already "degraded and unsafe," according to a draft fiscal report the utility filed in April prior to declaring bankruptcy"

#55 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-26 07:44 AM | Reply

Hang in there, Puerto Rico. Dotard will be delivering the first truckload of MAGA hits himself.

ewedit.files.wordpress.com

#56 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-09-26 04:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Best way to get help for Puerto Rico, let Texas annex the territory, then Ted Cruz will lavish funds on them.

#57 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-26 04:16 PM | Reply

It's the responsibility of each state, or territory in this case, to have comprehensive emergency plans.

If PR didn't have the appropriate disaster plans in place and political dysfunction, like Louisiana did with Katrina, the fault lies with PR.

If PR had the appropriate plans in place and FEMA is failing to deliver, the fault lies with FEMA.

#58 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-09-26 07:35 PM | Reply

#58;

So all the successes in the nation are directly related to trump's actions but he can't have the blame for its failures?

The thing I hate the most about your comment is how absurd it is to claim we don't have a responsibility to help our fellow Americans. What the hell do you think FEMA is for, anyway? DC only?

#59 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-09-26 07:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

if the north korean regime had any imagination plus an awareness of espoused western
charitable values, they would make a well publicized offer through the UN to send as much aid as they could afford, to the unfortunates in puerto rico. more powerful than 100 megatons

#60 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 12:13 AM | Reply

If PR didn't have the appropriate disaster plans in place
#58 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOTT

these are poor and to a large extent poorly educated people with very little in the way of resources. so let me see, how can i put this, eff you

#61 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 01:20 AM | Reply

"The thing I hate the most about your comment is how absurd it is to claim we don't have a responsibility to help our fellow Americans. What the hell do you think FEMA is for, anyway? DC only?"

Dude, you have poor reading comprehension skills. I never said what you imagined. Dome of you people here are delusional.

"these are poor and to a large extent poorly educated people with very little in the way of resources. so let me see, how can i put this, eff you" - ABLOCK

No F you and your ignorance. It's the responsibility of the PR GOVERNMENT to have and implement a disaster plan.

#62 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-09-27 06:44 AM | Reply

Copied from other PR article:
For you Spanish Speakers who are looking for news from the ground in PR:
www.elnuevodia.com

Here's some excerpts translated (not by me):
" Thousands of humanitarian wagons and merchandise for supermarkets began arriving in Puerto Rico last week.
Cargo shipments sent by FEMA through the Crowley shipping barges have not stopped, hurrying to their distribution destinations, said Jose Ayala, vice president of Crowley in Puerto Rico. "

"The people should not be alarmed that products of basic necessity are not coming. The products are. The question is how they get from the terminal to the gondolas, how they arrive. That is the part of the logistics is the one that has not started to work as it should"

"However, the concern executives of the company is that the vast majority of merchandise for trades, such as supermarkets, is waiting at the dock."
"Our terminal is full of containers. Since Saturday we've already dropped 1,200, "said Jose Nazario, Crowley's terminal operations manager on the Island"

"At least the FEMA cargo has flowed smoothly. After completing the shipments to the shelters, since yesterday they are sending cargoes to distribution centers. Yesterday they sent Mayagüez, Canóvanas, Arecibo, Bayamón and Ceiba."

#111 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 06:52 AM

#63 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 07:17 AM | Reply

It's the responsibility of the PR GOVERNMENT to have and implement a disaster plan.
#62 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOT

for brevities sake i'll accept whatever your opinion is concerning the puerto rican government but i have to say, so what. these are american citizens that are in immediate dire straits. we knew that the hurricane strike was damn near inevitable at least 2 days before in occured. what about the federal government responsibility to be aware and prepared? where's the military? we could be airlifting supplies to that island 24/7. this situation, in my mind, is an extension of the health care debate in which, as usual, poor and people of color, take it in the shorts. trump finally made a half ass statement yesterday when it seemed that he needed to explain to people what an island is. what would our response be if the damage was caused by a foreign military? sloughing off on FEMA our obligations to our fellow citizens shouldn't be acceptable. in my opinion

#64 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 09:25 AM | Reply

what about the federal government responsibility to be aware and prepared? .. sloughing off on FEMA our obligations to our fellow citizens shouldn't be acceptable. in my opinion - #64 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 09:25 AM

Will your opinion be swayed by the Governor and Representative of PR?
Rossello and other officials praised the federal government for planning its response in detail before the storm hit, a contrast with what Puerto Rico has long seen as the neglect of 3.4 million Americans living in a territory without a vote in Congress or the electoral college.

"This is the first time we get this type of federal coordination," said Resident Commission Jenniffer Gonzalez, Puerto Rico's non-voting representative in Washington.

Hurricane strike at 3am
Trump approved disaster declaration @ 8:15 am
Trump spoke with reporters about the status of PR at 10:25 am (Does it only count if it is a Tweet?)
US military already on site performing rescue operations by at least 1:10pm
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latest-maria-moving-north-dominican-republic-49997707

#65 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 09:50 AM | Reply

#65 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

The Berlin Airlift...no excuses. it's unacceptable

#66 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 10:13 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Berlin airlift was 7 countries flying 100 miles to an undamaged city of Berlin, and still only managed to deliver 90 tons of supplies a day, initially.
You are expecting a similar response from 1 country flying over 1000 miles to a hurricane damaged airport that is already unable to get fuel from the ports? That's assuming that they're leaving from FL, which is still recovering from their own hurricane.
I try not to call people names needlessly, but you are living in a fantasy world to expect anything like that.
In your fantasy scenario, now that we've stranded all of our aircraft in PR unable to return, what's your suggestion?
Do you really believe that you are a better logistician than the folks in FEMA and our military who make these types of studies as their job? Do you really feel that your plan not being possible in the real world an excuse?

#67 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 10:25 AM | Reply

#67 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

we all knew it was coming days in advance... i understand that nothing is as simple as typing in the comfort of a safe place. i honestly believe that rescue relief is hampered to a great extent by politics, specifically conservative politics. one pass by a B 1 bomber and it's fighter jet escorts over north korea...that cost could go a long way toward helping PR. there will always be an excuse available if you look hard enough and i suppose we could go all religious and just say that god wanted it that way

#68 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 11:27 AM | Reply

AVIGDORE ,please be sure and read this....McCain Pushes Jones Act Waiver for Puerto Rico

#69 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 11:35 AM | Reply

I did read it. It's already commented in by me.
one pass by a B 1 bomber and it's fighter jet escorts over north korea...that cost
So what is that cost, that you say could go a long way toward helping PR
More importantly, do you have the misconception that the US spending on 1 in any way interferes with spending on the other?
Please expand on what conservative politics is hampering the relief efforts in PR.
Would you also compare it to the island's liberal politics that lead to the state of financial ruin that prevented any maintenance of the infrastructure or necessary preparation in advance of the storm?

#70 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 11:41 AM | Reply

will always be an excuse available if you look hard enough - #68 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 11:27 AM
Yes, I suppose if we accept the excuses of the Pauli exclusion principle that 2 objects can't occupy the same space at the same time, the current limits on the thermal energy available in fuel, and our pesky inability to create a simple perpetual motion machine as 'excuses', then anything is an excuse if you look hard enough.

#71 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 11:49 AM | Reply

AVIGDORE....in the metaphysical sense i suppose you could apply the Pauli exclusion principle
as an excuse to explain the inability of compassion and logic to co-exist

#72 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 12:07 PM | Reply

our pesky inability to create a simple perpetual motion machine

#71 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 11:49 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

I'll bet Trump has one, and is only awaiting the right moment to unveil it.

#73 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-27 12:55 PM | Reply

#73 | POSTED BY ZED

the unveiling is already planned...it's to coincide with Mueller announcing that the trump family are not russian collaborators

#74 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 01:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Once again Trump had to be forced to do the right thing.

The Mayor of San Juan issued a SOS for anyone out there...

www.youtube.com

#75 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-09-27 01:22 PM | Reply

www.youtube.com
#75 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

should i believe you and the mayor or H. clinton or should i just put this down as unrealistic
liberal sniveling as suggested by some of the above postings...i'm confused

#76 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 01:55 PM | Reply

i'm confused - #76 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 01:55 PM
We know.

#77 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 02:05 PM | Reply

#77 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

but not by anything that you've posted...my search for clarity also recognizes our right to a free expression of opinion

#78 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 02:19 PM | Reply

#78 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 02:19 PM
I'm glad to hear that my (sometimes)clear and (less frequently)concise postings with linked citations at least hasn't confused you further.

#79 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 02:25 PM | Reply

should i believe you and the mayor or H. clinton or should i just put this down as unrealistic
liberal sniveling as suggested by some of the above postings...i'm confused

#76 | Posted by ABlock

Don't listen to me or anyone here. Watch the video. Listen to the mayors words and watch her expressions on the video. Watch how she almost cries while describing the deaths occurring in retirement homes there. Watch as she describes her fear of finding her people dead if she does get them help very soon. That should tell you everything you need to know. She is frightened for her people and she is desperate for help.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-09-27 02:33 PM | Reply

She is frightened for her people and she is desperate for help.

#80 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Of course she is.

I posted this on another thread:

Is the mayor of San Juan in communication with the ones in charge of this operation? Is she fully aware of the logistical hurdles that may be preventing aid to come quickly and sufficiently enough to her satisfaction? Is she even making a rational assessment?
I ask these questions because she is undoubtedly under a great deal of stress and emotional pain. It may (or may not be) be clouding her judgement. Also, she may not have all of the facts.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-09-27 02:28 PM

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-09-27 02:39 PM | Reply

#79 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

i appreciate your concern and look forward to continued edification, citation attributes
not withstanding. i've always found that opinions that conflict with my own either inform
me of new avenues that i may want to explore or reinforce what i already believe. again,
thank you

#82 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 02:46 PM | Reply

#80 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

i'm in total agreement, i watched it live, last night. my post to you proved to be effective sarcasm directed to other postings. i say effective because it elicited the expected response

#83 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-09-27 02:52 PM | Reply

And by god, Trump and the Republicans have made damn sure the capability is not there.
Don't let these pesky little facts about what has happened in the three days since the airports were reopened get in the way of your TDS rant:
"FEMA, working in coordination with federal partners, has provided more than 4 million meals, 6 million liters of water, nearly 300 infant and toddler kits, and 70,000 tarps and 15,000 rolls of roof sheeting to the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico since Hurricane Maria's landfall. An additional 7 million meals and 4 million liters of water are en route by barge to the islands, with additional federal supplies and contract support coming."
#78 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

He said this yesterday on another thread when I criticized Trump and FEMA for not doing enough for Puerto Rico.

Guess I was right. Don't let those pesky little facts get in your way there, Conservatives.

#84 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-09-27 03:03 PM | Reply

So, lets all blame Trump for their problem.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is urging acting Secretary of Homeland Security Elaine Duke to take an action that could significantly help Puerto Rico amid its unfolding humanitarian crisis: waive the Jones Act. The law requires that all goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by American-owned and operated ships.

#85 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-27 03:09 PM | Reply

Guess I was right. - #84 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-09-27 03:03 PM
Well, there's a first time for everything. What do you claim being right about this time?

#86 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 03:11 PM | Reply

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is urging acting Secretary of Homeland Security Elaine Duke to take an action that could significantly help Puerto Rico amid its unfolding humanitarian crisis: waive the Jones Act. The law requires that all goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by American-owned and operated ships.

#85 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-27 03:09 PM
That would have zero affect on the humanitarian crisis, but would lower the long-term cost to the island of rebuilding. It's certainly not something that the President needs to do at the moment. There are already more supplies on the island or waiting for entry into the harbor than can be deployed. If you seek the citation and speak Spanish, click my link in #63, otherwise you can check out NPR's statement
Much-needed supplies are either in Puerto Rico or on the way, officials say, but the island's governor acknowledges that they can't deliver fuel and other material quickly enough.

#87 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 03:17 PM | Reply

"The Berlin Airlift...no excuses. it's unacceptable"

Fair enough.

But what grade did you give us on how we handled the Haiti earthquake?

Water, supplies, response time?

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2017-09-27 03:24 PM | Reply

He said this yesterday on another thread when I criticized Trump and FEMA for not doing enough for Puerto Rico.
Guess I was right. Don't let those pesky little facts get in your way there, Conservatives.

#84 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-09-27 03:03 PM

Not really, here is today's status:

FEMA response update as of 9/27/2017 9:00 EDT:

11 million meals, 10 million liters of water, nearly 1300 infant and toddler kits, and 70,000 tarps and 15,000 rolls of roof sheeting to the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico since Hurricane Maria's landfall.

An additional 14 million meals and 19 million liters of water are en route by barge to the islands, with additional federal supplies and contract support coming.

The ports of San Juan, Fajardo, Culebra, Guayanilla, Salinas, Tallaboa, and Vieques are now open for daylight operations in Puerto Rico. The ports of Crown Bay, East Gregerie Channel, West Gregerie Channel, and Redhook Bay on St. Thomas, the ports of Krause Lagoon, Limetree Bay, and Frederiksted on St. Croix, and the port of Cruz Bay on St. John are open with restrictions.

8 FEMA Urban and 16 U.S. Military Search & Rescue task forces are stationed and conducting operations in the Caribbean. FEMA US&R and military task forces have saved or assisted 2585 individuals and two pets, while searching over 11.400 structures as of September 27.

All of this was airlifted in the last 4 days since the airports were reopened, ships are now starting to arrive from their 1400 mile journeys from ports in Alabama and Georgia (nothing is coming out of FL for obvious reasons) and the US Army Corps of Engineers now has over 2,000 troops opening roads, repairing power grids and re-establisning communications.

#89 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-27 03:38 PM | Reply

#75

Nice Madcow reference, anyone who relies on Madcow resides on the same circle of hell as anyone who relied on O'Reilly for their news source. Of course Madcow gets the angriest person that she can find, it fits her viewing demographic's preconceived notions and allows the Mayor to blame someone else for the problems they are facing.

So far, at the territory level the Democratic Governor of Puerto Rico has nothing but praise for the Administration and FEMA's response...Why don't you turn off Madcow and watch PBS, this is what the Governor of Puerto Rico had to say last night about the Federal effort so far:

"JOHN YANG: Governor, are you getting all the aid you need or getting it fast enough from the states?

GOV. RICARDO ROSSELLO: First of all, we are very grateful for the administration. They have responded quickly.

The president has been very attentive to the situation, personally calling me several times. FEMA and the FEMA director have been here in Puerto Rico twice. As a matter of fact, they were here with us today, making sure that all the resources in FEMA were working in conjunction with the central government.

We have been working together. We have been getting results. The magnitude of this catastrophe is enormous. This is going to take a lot of help, a lot of collaboration. So, my call is to congressmen and congresswomen to take action quickly and conclusively with an aid package for Puerto Rico."

#90 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-27 03:44 PM | Reply

"But what grade did you give us on how we handled the Haiti earthquake?"

Depends if "we" includes the UN, because the UN screwed up in Haiti.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-27 03:46 PM | Reply

From Avigdore's link:

""We need resources and security. We need a quicker logistical deployment," Gov. Ricardo Rossello told NPR's Mary Louise Kelly on Tuesday. "You know, the gas and fuel issue is not a matter of how much do we have -- it's a matter of how we can distribute it."

. . .

Six days after Hurricane Maria ran through Puerto Rico after making landfall as a Category 4 storm, people on the island are struggling to recover and regional and local officials are having trouble getting vital supplies where they're needed.

"We need bus drivers, we need gas station operators and some of them have devastation and are still locked down, as well," Rossello said. "So our focus has been to identify these bus drivers, to identify the gas station operators, to get them open and to start the transmission of all of this fuel."

He added, "Today in the morning we sent about a hundred trucks with fuel everywhere in the island. That should start mitigating this a little bit."

. . .

As for other supplies, Rossello told NPR on Tuesday, "There is food coming. The ports have opened. There are medicines coming. There are articles of first need that are here already. The regulating step is our deployment of those assets."

Puerto Rico is asking FEMA to send more personnel to help, he said; a request has also gone out to states to send members of their National Guards to pitch in."

#92 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-27 03:50 PM | Reply

The Berlin Airlift...no excuses. it's unacceptable

#66 | POSTED BY ABLOCK AT 2017-09-27 10:13 AM | FLAG:

Berlin Airlift? The US didn't have nearly enough aircraft. An all out effort, including British contributions of aircraft and crews, could only move 700 tons of supplies per day. They needed to move 5000 tons daily. It took months to ramp up, and had to operate for a year. If the Berlin Airlift happened right this moment, everybody criticizing the logistics under Trump would be losing their minds.

#93 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-27 05:49 PM | Reply

To put this in a little more prospective, Puerto Rico is an island the size of Connecticut with 3.4 million people scattered across the whole area. The logistics are beyond anything we have ever had to deal with.

#94 | Posted by Daniel at 2017-09-27 06:35 PM | Reply

Cell phones are useless if you can't charge them.
3.5 million people is a very large number. I can't even fathom it. From what we know (which is very little, because football players kneeled this weekend), the entire country was devastated. No power, no crops, no water.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that only US ships can dock in Puerto Rico, so if any foreign country even tries to aid them, they will have some bureaucratic hurdles to overcome.

Puerto Rico is broke, Wall Street owns them, and apparently Wall Street is willing to give them a loan on top of their loans...

Sounds like Drumpf's FEMA is doing a heckuva job there.

#95 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-09-27 06:45 PM | Reply

#95

Reading prior entries in a thread isn't your strongpoint, is it?

#96 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-27 07:13 PM | Reply

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that only US ships can dock in Puerto Rico - #95 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-09-27 06:45 PM
This is not a true statement.
You are being confused by talk about the Jones Act, which requires goods carried from US port to US port be carried by US vessels. PR buys much of their goods from foreign countries transported by foreign ships that dock in the ports of PR.

#97 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-09-27 09:04 PM | Reply

#96 - "I don't know if this is true or not..." (acknowledges that I have not read the ~100 posts on this thread, and can't confirm that point.) I do, however, know that cell phones require power, and I am comfortable standing by my other statements.

#97 - I am not confused. I admitted that I was not aware if it was true or not. I heard it on the radio and qualified my statement because I didn't confirm it.

From the comments you've both made, I can't really say I care what you think. You sound like real humanitarians.

#98 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-09-28 12:38 AM | Reply

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