Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 19, 2017

US investigators wiretapped former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort under secret court orders before and after the election, sources tell CNN, an extraordinary step involving a high-ranking campaign official now at the center of the Russia meddling probe. The government snooping continued into early this year, including a period when Manafort was known to talk to President Donald Trump. Some of the intelligence collected includes communications that sparked concerns among investigators that Manafort had encouraged the Russians to help with the campaign, according to three sources familiar with the investigation. Two of these sources, however, cautioned that the evidence is not conclusive.

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Special counsel Robert Mueller's team, which is leading the investigation into Russia's involvement in the election, has been provided details of these communications.

A secret order authorized by the court that handles the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) began after Manafort became the subject of an FBI investigation that began in 2014. It centered on work done by a group of Washington consulting firms for Ukraine's former ruling party, the sources told CNN.

The surveillance was discontinued at some point last year for lack of evidence, according to one of the sources.

The FBI then restarted the surveillance after obtaining a new FISA warrant that extended at least into early this year.

Sources say the second warrant was part of the FBI's efforts to investigate ties between Trump campaign associates and suspected Russian operatives. Such warrants require the approval of top Justice Department and FBI officials, and the FBI must provide the court with information showing suspicion that the subject of the warrant may be acting as an agent of a foreign power.

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With a Picked Lock and a Threatened Indictment, Mueller's Inquiry Sets a Tone

WASHINGTON -- Paul J. Manafort was in bed early one morning in July when federal agents bearing a search warrant picked the lock on his front door and raided his Virginia home. They took binders stuffed with documents and copied his computer files, looking for evidence that Mr. Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, set up secret offshore bank accounts. They even photographed the expensive suits in his closet.

The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, then followed the house search with a warning: His prosecutors told Mr. Manafort they planned to indict him, said two people close to the investigation.

www.nytimes.com

"So Paul, any word from Vlad?"

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-18 08:24 PM | Reply

Potentially bad news for both Trump and Pence, who Manafort helped Trump pick for VP by engineering a fake plane malfunction and who led the transition team:

Paul Manafort Is Back and Advising Donald Trump on Cabinet Picks

Paul Manafort left the Trump campaign back in August, or did he? Sources confirm to The Daily Beast that he's back advising the president-elect.

www.thedailybeast.com

#2 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 09:14 PM | Reply

Perhaps Manafort can get a job in the prison kitchen, making nothingburgers.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2017-09-18 09:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 10

Said it before, will say it again, at the end of the day this investigation will be "inconclusive" as to Trump's involvement but Manafort (who the FBI has been investigating since 2014 for his Ukraine activities) and Flynn will both be thrown under the bus.

#4 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-09-18 10:03 PM | Reply

This is too good.

#5 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-18 10:06 PM | Reply

Looks like the liberals were right again! As usual! I should have paid more attention!

#6 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-09-18 10:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Like a NothingBurger with FISA sauce.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-18 10:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

#6 if this is not sarcastic, go to the emergency room immediately and get the help you need

#8 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-18 10:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Oh Lordy, there are tapes!

It's been reported Manafort spoke to Pence almost daily during the transition. It's also been reported that Manafort and Trump spoke, right up until their lawyers told them to stop. If so, it seems likely Pence and Trump are on tape with Manafort. If they minded their Ps & Qs, they have nothing to worry about.

#9 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 10:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#4 I've said that too. One caveat, however, would be if there is damaging and damning info on the tapes, especially if it comes directly out of Pence and/or Trump's mouth. We'll see--or hear, as the case may be.

#10 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 10:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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First came the oft repeated declarative denials that 'NOBODY IN THE CAMPAIGN HAD ANY CONTACT with Russia.

Then came the truth that many, yea many, contacts took place.

So then, they declared 'No collaboration' with Russia.

We are now, we are looking over the edge, into the abyss...and what do we see?

Tapes, Emeffers, Tapes!

Sweet Tapdancing Rose Mary Woods, Batman!

Sheet gettin real up in here now, Babies!

"Lordy, I hope there are tapes"

Guessing that perhaps Comey knew all along. You know, friends in the industry...

#11 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-09-18 11:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Disgusting ......

FISA is a joke, a made up dossier, get a warrant and spy on your political opponents...

Trump wasn't wrong .... was he ...

"How low has President Obama gone to tapp [sic] my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
-- President Trump, tweet, March 4, 2017

I recall most of you knuckleheads said he was a liar .... funny dat be........

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-09-18 11:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 5 | Newsworthy 1

#12 |

It wasn't Trump's phone that was tapped, dumbass.

And he's he biggest liar the world has ever seen.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-18 11:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 5

Trump wasn't tapped. Manafort was tapped from 2014 until early 2016. And then again in 2016 until sometime earlier this year. Carter Page was also tapped beginning in 2014. Funny how they both end up on team Trump during the transition, isn't' it? Cheer up, Andrea. Trump only picks the best people, and that's why he's in the mess he's in.

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 11:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Oh, he is much much more than a liar, Mackris.

And soon we will have a much deeper measure of his villiany

One wonders exactly how far into this Administration and the GOP this taint will be found to have spread.

I must say, Mackris, your tears of fear are adorable.

#15 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-09-18 11:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

"Trump only picks the best people, and that's why he's in the mess he's in."

Trump needs to man up and take responsibility for his own actions. Folks like Manafort, Page and Flynn didn't end up being part of his campaign, transition team and administration by accident or someone else's doing.

#16 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 11:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Also, let's not forget many foreign intel services are said to have intercepts on these guys and others on Team Trump. Oops.

#17 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-18 11:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump needs to man up and take responsibility for his own actions.

Speaking of things that will never happen.

#18 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-09-18 11:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Trump needs to man up and take responsibility for his own actions.

Most people don't change their stripes in their 70s.

#19 | Posted by memyselfini at 2017-09-19 12:13 AM | Reply

The Latest Scoops from CNN and the New York Times: A Quick and Dirty Analysis www.lawfareblog.com

Let's start with a key disclaimer: We don't know that all the reported facts in these stories are correct, and we don't know what other facts not reported may complicate the picture. So far, no other journalistic organization seems to have independently reported the key facts in these stories, giving additional reason for caution, for now. That said, the following are some initial questions on people's minds, along with some early and necessarily preliminary answers that could change as facts continue to develop.

What does it mean that Manafort was informed he will be indicted?

What does the fact of a FISA warrant mean?

Are these leaks big deals and are they prosecutorial leaks?

So was Trump right to say that he was "wire tapped"?

What does this mean for the future of the Trump-Russia investigation?

#20 | Posted by et_al at 2017-09-19 01:08 AM | Reply

ET AL

"What does it mean that Manafort was informed he will be indicted?"

It means get a lawyer. Better yet, get a whole fleet of lawyers.

"What does the fact of a FISA warrant mean?"

It means Mueller has the goods on you and you have choices to make. Flip or go down with the ship, sucker.

"Are these leaks big deals and are they prosecutorial leaks?"

That probably doesn't matter very much right now. There are bigger fish to fry.

"So was Trump right to say that he was "wire tapped"?

Not by Obama.

"What does this mean for the future of the Trump-Russia investigation?"

IMPEACHMENT!

#21 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-09-19 06:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

FISA is a joke, a made up dossier, get a warrant and spy on your political opponents...

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris

You mean the FISA judges appointed by Chief Justice John Roberts? You mean he's a "crypto-liberal"? Who knew?

#22 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-09-19 09:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

So now the right wing thinks Obama was so precient that he ordered wiretaps 2 years before Trump picked Manafort so he could get Trump on tape.

Wow. just wow

#23 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-09-19 09:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So now the right wing thinks Obama was so precient that he ordered wiretaps 2 years before Trump picked Manafort so he could get Trump on tape.

Wow. just wow

#23 | Posted by hatter5183

Two years before Trump announced that he was running for POTUS! Proving, once again, that the right wingers are totally disconnected from reality.

#24 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-09-19 10:02 AM | Reply

Back in April, the powerful Washington lobbying firm run by Clinton ally Tony Podesta filed a document admitting its work for the pro-Russia European Centre for a Modern Ukraine may have principally benefited a foreign government. New disclosures revealed dozens of previously unreported interactions the firm made with influential government offices, including Hillary Clinton's State Department and the office of former Vice President Joe Biden, while lobbying on behalf of the center. Embattled ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort failed to disclose his extensive lobbying efforts on behalf of the center

Make sure you don't leave out Podesta and the Clinton camp.

#25 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-09-19 10:08 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#25

Funny stuff. FishP posts an uncited quote from the rwing Wash Examiner, prolly via the Daily Squalor:

dailycaller.com

The cover-up included using legit outlets like the State Dept. and the VP's office. Rwing media went nuts over that as if it were some connection to Manafort's failure to report what he was actually doing.

They based their spin on a legit NBC report.

www.nbcnews.com

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 10:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#12 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Someone help Andrea. She is choking on the "NothingBurger"!

#27 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-09-19 10:39 AM | Reply | Funny: 5

Looks like Trump was right.

#28 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 10:41 AM | Reply

It wasn't Trump's phone that was tapped, dumbass.

And he's he biggest liar the world has ever seen.

#13 | Posted by Corky

That isn't what he said. He claimed the phones in the Trump tower were tapped.

#29 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 10:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

If Manafort gets indicted that is a big deal. It means that there is substance to the accusations against the Trump camp. It means that those of you trying to pretend that this investigation is a "nothing burger" are just wrong. Manafort getting indicted means that there is hard evidence that criminal activity was afoot among Trump's closest associates.

An indictment means moving beyond politics, innuendo and suspicion. It means there is evidence of criminal guilt which stands up to the scrutiny of a neutral Grand Jury. I'm sorry if this contradicts the narrative some of you have been hearing from FoxNews.

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-09-19 10:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Make sure you don't leave out Podesta and the Clinton camp."

Who, unlike Manafort, did report all their activities.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 10:49 AM | Reply

It means there is evidence of criminal guilt which stands up to the scrutiny of a neutral Grand Jury.

#30 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-09-19 10:45 AM | FLAG:

Wait, this same grand jury we're told is a corrupted process whenever it's a police related investigation?

#32 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 10:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-That isn't what he said. He claimed the phones in the Trump tower were tapped.

#29 | POSTED BY SNIPER

- Trump wasn't wrong .... was he ...

"How low has President Obama gone to tapp [sic] my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
-- President Trump, tweet, March 4, 2017

This is about Manafort's phones being tapped, not Trump's.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 10:55 AM | Reply

#32...desperate non sequitur.

I love the aroma of rightwing desperation in the morning. Smells like waffles and bacon.

#34 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-09-19 10:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I love the aroma of rightwing

#34 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR AT 2017-09-19 10:58 AM | REPLY

Hate to break it to you, but I'm far more liberal than you.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:07 AM | Reply

Hate to break it to you, but I'm far more liberal than you.

#35 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Uh huh...sure...right...whatever you say, Lefty.

#36 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-09-19 11:13 AM | Reply

Looks like the liberals were right again! As usual! I should have paid more attention!

#6 | Posted by WhiteDevil

Republicans...only accurate when they're being sarcastic.

#37 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-09-19 11:16 AM | Reply

#36 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR AT 2017-09-19 11:13 AM | FLAG:

Being a classic liberal is tough nowadays. Personal liberty is a terrifying concept to left wing statists.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:20 AM | Reply

I'm sorry if this contradicts the narrative some of you have been hearing from FoxNews.

#30 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-09-19 10:45 AM | REPLY | NEWSWORTHY 1

I am not sorry at all.

#39 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-09-19 11:23 AM | Reply

That isn't what he said. He claimed the phones in the Trump tower were tapped.

#29 | Posted by Sniper

Another lie you fell for.

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-09-19 11:25 AM | Reply

Personal liberty is a terrifying concept to left wing statists.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg

You're watching too much fox news.

I'm as left as they come, and I care a lot more about liberty than any conservative who spends all day worrying about abortion and ISIS.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-09-19 11:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Started in 2014, yet here we are more than 3 years later.

Until someone is actually convicted of something, it's all show business.

#42 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-09-19 11:28 AM | Reply

Libertarians calling themselves classic liberals is pretty funny.

I guess Rand Paul is now a classic liberal.

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Wait, this same grand jury we're told is a corrupted process whenever it's a police related investigation?

#32 | Posted by sitzkrieg

No. Sorry. Different Grand Jury. A Federal Grand Jury. Not just a bunch of hand picked yokels on some county grand jury chosen by a bunch of right wing prosecutors. Not Ferguson Missouri's grand jury.

Again, sorry if this interferes with your FoxNews narrative and accompanying deflections.

#44 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-09-19 11:43 AM | Reply

I am all for getting to the bottom of this.

Of those conversations outside of the warrant - did those leak?

There is a real problem with investigating someone involved with a Presidential run for office. It's leaking.

Investigating crimes is one thing - but, what about the information that was gathered outside of the criminal aspect?
If that was handed to the WH or anyone else, then that is terribly wrong.

All you have to do is start up an investigation of someone close to a campaign and you can wiretap your opponent because they talk to the person your listening.

Trump may not have been wiretapped, but if he called someone who was tapped and there was no criminal activity in that call - that conversation is not permitted to leak.

#45 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-09-19 11:44 AM | Reply

"Personal liberty is a terrifying concept to left wing statists."

Like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, etc. Every improvement in the lives of average Americans has come from "left wing statists," who also won WWII, The Cold War and who are now defending us from terrorists while whiny little Libertarians pretend that personal freedom is the only important value.

#46 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Again, sorry if this interferes with your FoxNews narrative and accompanying deflections.

#44 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-09-19 11:43 AM | FLAG:

Funny, deflect to Fox News, claim deflection. The arguments for the abolition of the grand jury system are the same, state & federal. Prosecution domination.

The cognitive dissonance because people are seeing somebody from the Trump campaign maybe go to trial will continue to be humorous.

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Every improvement in the lives of average Americans has come from "left wing statists,"

#46 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-09-19 11:50 AM | REPLY

Your heroes rounded up Japanese people with no due process and placed them in concentration camps. Of course you only see things from the viewpoint of an entitled white person, but that's to be expected.

#48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sitz, you are grasping at straws if you are arguing that a county grand jury in some gung ho pro law enforcement hard red State is in any way comparable with a Federal Grand Jury. Sorry if reality is not what you want it to be.

I hate making arguments the equivalent of 'I know you are but what am I', but seriously, it seems like you are the one suffering from the cognitive dissonance. The house of cards is beginning to topple and people such as you don't know how to comprehend it.

#49 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-09-19 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" Your heroes rounded up Japanese people with no due process and placed them in concentration camps." - #48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:54 AM

Danni listed "...Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, etc....".

When did John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson round up Japanese people?

Of course you only see things from the viewpoint of an uneducated rightwinger, incapable of seeing more than 1 or 2 dimensions of history, but that's to be expected.

#50 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Again, sorry if this interferes with your FoxNews narrative and accompanying deflections.
#44 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-09-19 11:43 AM | FLAG:
Funny, deflect to Fox News, claim deflection. The arguments for the abolition of the grand jury system are the same, state & federal. Prosecution domination.
The cognitive dissonance because people are seeing somebody from the Trump campaign maybe go to trial will continue to be humorous.

#47 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

First, you obviously don't know what a deflection is. This is ironic since you post them constantly.

Second, you obviously don't know how grand juries work or how much power prosecutors have without them.

Third, you are displaying serious cognitive dissonance here daily by literally ignoring any fact which doesn't fit your political philosophy.

I'd hate to be around you when things finally fall apart for the Trump Administration.

#51 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-09-19 12:02 PM | Reply

Sitz, you are grasping at straws if you are arguing that a county grand jury in some gung ho pro law enforcement hard red State is in any way comparable with a Federal Grand Jury. Sorry if reality is not what you want it to be.
#49 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-09-19 11:55 AM | REPLY

www.nacdl.org

scholarship.law.cornell.edu

harvardlawreview.org

Lots of very well educated people do not agree with your synopsis that country grand jury bad, federal grand jury good.

#52 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:06 PM | Reply

"" Your heroes rounded up Japanese people with no due process and placed them in concentration camps.""

That was a mistake, the U.S. apologized to those people but it has nothing to do with the fact that no Libertarian has ever brought any help to the American people. All improvements for working Americans have come from Progressive Democrats. BTW, Ayn Rand retired on SS.

#53 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 12:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

George Washington was not a Progressive Democrat.

#54 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-09-19 12:17 PM | Reply

An apology? WOW! Just a mistake guys! We rounded you all up because we were afraid of what you might, sorry about that, totes!

I noticed you skipped the actual Progressive Era, which featured the Volstead Act, and went to Ayn Rand (a cult leader whom never had any political power) instead. Too funny. How did prohibition work out again? Must have been great for the American people.

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:18 PM | Reply

"George Washington was not a Progressive Democrat." - #54 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-09-19 12:17 PM

Since the Democratic Party started just 5 years before the end of Washington's second term, this is a partially true statement. He ran as a no party candidate in his first election, then as a nominal Federalist for his second.

However, like the rest of the founding fathers, Washington was a product of the Enlightenment and was, therefore, every bit the liberal.

#56 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 12:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Sitz, you are wallowing in a pitiful puddle of partisan "Whataboutism" to avoid the subject of the thread.

See, that is what deflection is.

You're welcome.

#57 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-09-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"...the actual Progressive Era, which featured the Volstead Act..." - #55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:18 PM

You mean the law that was vetoed by Woodrow Wilson, Democrat, but whose veto was overridden by the Republican Congress?

That Volstead Act?

#58 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 12:26 PM | Reply

#11 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour

Hate to go all the way back to this one but you know d*** well that Comey knew about it. Why do you think he was so careful? Something this big as investigation ongoing in the FBI for years without a doubt makes it to the top - especially when the man is working for the front runner of one party in the presidential election. What amazes me is how stupid these people are literally and by these people I mean the Trumps, Manafort, Page and Flynn to name just a few. I can see the Trumps being that out of touch with reality but seriously didn't these other idiots think their working for foreign governments would come up? Flynn especially had zero excuse because I guarantee he knew about it from his military career. Maybe it is good the amateur won and all this is being exposed.

But to use phone calls, emails and any other interceptable communications and not expect to get caught - wow. I frankly hope that Pence and Trump are both exposed. Pence is a lot more dangerous than Trump if he becomes President because he is a political creature but at the same time he seems to have been cut out of a lot of things during this time frame.

#59 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-19 12:28 PM | Reply

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Prohibition is a CONSERVATIVE topic if there ever was one. Everything about prohibition on alcohol screams conservatism. Just like the current and continuing War on Drugs.

#60 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-19 12:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You mean the law that was vetoed by Woodrow Wilson, Democrat, but whose veto was overridden by the Republican Congress?
That Volstead Act?

#58 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2017-09-19 12:26 PM | FLAG:

Southern Strategy.

#61 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:38 PM | Reply

Sitz, you are wallowing in a pitiful puddle of partisan "Whataboutism" to avoid the subject of the thread.

#57 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR AT 2017-09-19 12:25 PM | FLAG:

All I did was make fun of peoples new embrace of the grand jury process. The moderately funny attacks in response derailed from there.

#62 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:40 PM | Reply

Like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, etc. Every improvement in the lives of average Americans has come from "left wing statists," who also won WWII, The Cold War and who are now defending us from terrorists while whiny little Libertarians pretend that personal freedom is the only important value.

#46 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-09-19 11:50 AM | REPLY | NEWSWORTHY 3

Excellent Danni, calling out Libertarians as little whiners. Who else are you and the Democratic party going to insult while calling anyone who disagrees with you basically stupid peasants. Keep it up, it worked so well for you in the last election.

#63 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-09-19 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Too funny. How did prohibition work out again? Must have been great for the American people."

'Congress passed the Blaine Act, a proposed constitutional amendment to repeal the Eighteenth Amendment to end Prohibition, in February. On December 5, 1933, Utah became the 36th state to ratify the Twenty-first Amendment, which repealed the Eighteenth Amendment, voiding the Volstead Act, and restored control of alcohol to the states. The creation of the Federal Alcohol Administration in 1935 defined a modest role for the federal government with respect to alcohol and its taxation.[citation needed]

Any idea who was President in 1933? You go to ridiculous lengths to try and make a case against my statement that Progressive Democrats have brought virtually every improvement for the conditions of the working class of America but none of your attempts seem to contradict that statement at all.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 12:41 PM | Reply

"Keep it up, it worked so well for you in the last election."

You mean the one that the Republicans stole? The one where Hillary Clinton got nearly 3 million more votes than Trump?

#65 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Prohibition is a CONSERVATIVE topic if there ever was one. Everything about prohibition on alcohol screams conservatism. Just like the current and continuing War on Drugs.

#60 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE AT 2017-09-19 12:32 PM | FLAG:

But it's not. Prohibition came from the Progressive Era, from the Progressives of the time. The same people that pushed women's right vote (good thing), pushed prohibition (horrible thing). Progressivism is not a great good, it's just a set of ideas with good and bad in them. Good things come from progressivism + personal liberty, like voting rights. Outright horror and mayhem come from progressivism - personal liberty, like prohibition. Even current deregulation of the War on Drugs is done in ways that enshrine institutional racism and the black market chasing sin tax revenue instead of focusing on personal freedoms that would do much more good for society in the long run. People are too hung up on nouns instead of results.

#66 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:44 PM | Reply

Any idea who was President in 1933?

#64 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-09-19 12:41 PM | FLAG:

Congrats, you pointed to a perfect example of progressivism + personal liberty giving freedoms that government took back to Americans. Deregulation. It unfortunately created a massive monopolistic system of crony donors, but hey, beer.

#67 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:49 PM | Reply

Deflecting to Prohibition to keep from discussing the Russian Probe of Trump and his pets?

Only a classical liberal would do that, rofl!

#68 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 12:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

" Even current deregulation of the War on Drugs is done in ways that enshrine institutional racism and the black market chasing sin tax revenue instead of focusing on personal freedoms that would do much more good for society in the long run. People are too hung up on nouns instead of results."

Meanwhile Libertarians want to take away SS, Medicare, Medicaid, minimum wage, child labor laws, regulation by FDA, etc. Go live in a Libertarian paradise like Sudan if all that matters is personal freedom.

#69 | Posted by danni at 2017-09-19 12:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

- Trump wasn't wrong .... was he ...

"How low has President Obama gone to tapp [sic] my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!"
-- President Trump, tweet, March 4, 2017

This is about Manafort's phones being tapped, not Trump's.

#33 | Posted by Corky

They are the same phones in Trump tower. You lack reading comprehension skills.

#70 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 12:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Every improvement in the lives of average Americans has come from "left wing statists,"

#46 | POSTED BY DANNI

WOW are you misinformed.

#71 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 12:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#70

Manafort's phone is the same phone as in Trump Tower?

Dumb as that post is, at least it's not about Prohibition or Japanese internment> Good effort, Snips!

#72 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 12:59 PM | Reply

"Southern Strategy." - #61 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Non sequitur

#73 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:00 PM | Reply

" Your heroes rounded up Japanese people with no due process and placed them in concentration camps." - #48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 11:54 AM

Danni listed "...Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, etc....".

When did John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson round up Japanese people?

Of course you only see things from the viewpoint of an uneducated rightwinger, incapable of seeing more than 1 or 2 dimensions of history, but that's to be expected.

#50 | Posted by Hans

Don't be a dope hands.

#74 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:00 PM | Reply

BTW, Ayn Rand retired on SS.

#53 | Posted by danni

Which she paid into. It was her money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#75 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"WOW are you misinformed." - #71 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 12:59 PM

It doesn't go unnoticed that you provided zero examples of improvements in the lives of average Americans coming from right wingers, statists or otherwise.

#76 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:02 PM | Reply

"Don't be a dope..." - #74 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:00 PM

I defer to your clear superiority in that area.

#77 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:03 PM | Reply

Washington was a product of the Enlightenment and was, therefore, every bit the liberal.

#56 | Posted by Hans

You sure about that hands? Sounds like BS to me.

#78 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:03 PM | Reply

You mean the one that the Republicans stole? The one where Hillary Clinton got nearly 3 million more votes than Trump?

#65 | Posted by danni

You mean the election where hiltibeast got whuped in the electoral college where it counts?

#79 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:06 PM | Reply

"Prohibition came from the Progressive Era, from the Progressives of the time." - #66 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-19 12:44 PM

Only a rightwinger, oblivious to history, would consider Wayne Wheeler and the Anti-Saloon League "Progressives."

#80 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:07 PM | Reply

"You sure about that..." - #78 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:03 PM

Yep.

"Sounds like BS to me."

Sounds like you need to make an appointment with your otolaryngologist.

You're welcome.

#81 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:10 PM | Reply

"You mean the election where hiltibeast got whuped in the electoral college..." - #79 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:06 PM

Trump's EC victory was #46 out of 58 elections. Hardly "whuped" by anyone's definition.

Meanwhile, only Obama, in 2012, received more popular votes than Secretary Clinton did in 2016.

And, as the name implies, the popular vote represents the voice of the American people, regardless of how the EC votes.

#82 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They are the same phones in Trump tower. You lack reading comprehension skills.

#70 | POSTED BY SNIPER

You mean they all shared a single phone? Imagine the long lines, I mean it's a big building.

#83 | Posted by Lohocla at 2017-09-19 01:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Which she paid into. It was her money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - #75 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-19 01:01 PM

Ayn Rand received back far more than what she paid in.

Socialism at its finest.

#84 | Posted by Hans at 2017-09-19 01:17 PM | Reply

Can any trumper on this thread offer a theory as to WHY trump picked manafort as his campaign manager, or how so many of his circle ended up with contacts or connections to russia that they tried to hide?

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-09-19 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

You mean the election where hiltibeast got whuped in the electoral college where it counts?

#79 | Posted by Sniper

Yeah the election where the EC failed to do it's job and protect the country from the voters electing a con man.

#86 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-09-19 01:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Funny how the "law and order" crowd doesn't want the FBI to be able to wiretap criminals and spies.

#87 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-09-19 03:57 PM | Reply

Senate Intel Leaders' Statement on the Postponing of Michael Cohen's Interview

WASHINGTON - Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-NC) and Vice Chairman Mark Warner (D-VA) today made the following announcement on the testimony of Michael Cohen:

"We were disappointed that Mr. Cohen decided to pre-empt today's interview by releasing a public statement prior to his engagement with Committee staff, in spite of the Committee's requests that he refrain from public comment. As a result, we declined to move forward with today's interview and will reschedule Mr. Cohen's appearance before the Committee in open session at a date in the near future. The Committee expects witnesses in this investigation to work in good faith with the Senate."

www.burr.senate.gov

#88 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-09-19 04:19 PM | Reply

#88

Good eye, Gal.

Now a Back Page thread.

#89 | Posted by Corky at 2017-09-19 04:26 PM | Reply

Why all this fuss about Manafort in Ukraine? He's accused of developing ties with Russians, which is hardly surprising, considering that he's a mercenary opportunist and businessman, and Russia and Ukraine have numerous historical, cultural, economic and business ties. Yanukovich could have introduced Manafort to lots of Russians. But that was in 2014 before Trump announced his campaign.

We now know that Manafort came under investigation by the FBI soon after the U.S.-backed putsch in February 2014 and is ongoing. But it didn't start as an investigation into Russian election meddling. And it will very possibly not find any evidence for that. It may find, for example, an email in which Manafort supports the withdrawal of the party plank in July 2015 advocating lethal arms to the current government. But it would be a stretch to assume he's the key villain interlocutor between "Russian operatives" and the Trump campaign.

#90 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-09-20 05:04 PM | Reply

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