Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 11, 2017

China will set a deadline for automakers to end sales of fossil-fuel-powered vehicles, becoming the biggest market to do so in a move that will accelerate the push into the electric car market led by companies including BYD and BAIC Motor. The world's second-biggest economy, which has vowed to cap its carbon emissions by 2030 and curb worsening air pollution, is the latest to join countries such as the U.K. and France seeking to phase out vehicles using gasoline and diesel. The looming ban on combustion-engine automobiles will goad both local and global automakers to focus on introducing more zero-emission electric cars to help clean up smog-choked major cities.

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While many global manufacturers from billionaire Elon Musk's Tesla to Nissan Motor and General Motors are racing to grab a slice of the electric-vehicle market in China, it is the local manufacturers that have found considerable success thanks to generous government subsidies.

The U.K. said in July it will ban sales of diesel- and gasoline-fueled cars by 2040, two weeks after France announced a similar plan to reduce air pollution and meet targets to keep global warming below 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Norway and the Netherlands are considering a more aggressive way to put an end on fossil fuel cars years earlier than its European peers.

Chery's Liu said as newer technologies are developed in the meantime, the strongest among the manufacturers with better resources will adapt to the market and continue to dominate.

"Those who currently are outrunning the others in EVs will not necessarily continue to stay ahead," he said.

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They're creating the future economy without the US.

#1 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-09-10 06:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When the US is stuck in a 19th century mentality, yah, the rest of the world will leave us behind.

The fossil fuel industry knows it's products are harming the planet, they are spending millions to buy the GOP so they can squeeze a few more decades of billions in profits.

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2017-09-10 06:57 PM | Reply

Doesn't China's electricity come from coal pants? Let me check.

Yep. 73% of it. And nuclear power is at the bottom of the list, below solar and wind.

en.wikipedia.org

#3 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-09-10 09:12 PM | Reply

They're creating the future economy without the US.

Awe BS.

We don't have the infrastructure in place yet for electric to be a viable product. It will happen, but on our own time.

If you like other liberal countries so much, why don't you move there and leave the evil U.S.?

I like my gasoline, thank you very much.

#4 | Posted by boaz at 2017-09-10 09:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"We don't have the infrastructure in place yet for electric to be a viable product."

We have roads.
We have electricity.
What's missing??

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-10 09:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#4 I don't think China is a liberal country. Anyway, battery power is about to triple in range in just a few years due to the next generation of solid state lithium ion batteries (also said to be cheaper). And you can recharge your truck in 5 minutes or less with an industrial power cable at a charging station.

Gasoline is going away.

Kumbaya.

#6 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-09-10 09:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#5 A cheap, long range battery, with a very fast recharge rate. But it's in the labs, and almost into commercial production.

Here: www.sciencedaily.com

#7 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-09-10 09:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#5 A cheap, long range battery,"

I wouldn't really call that infrastructure thought.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-10 09:42 PM | Reply

A battery car is one thing.

A truck with Horse Power and torque is another.

#9 | Posted by boaz at 2017-09-10 09:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#9 Electric motors have three times the torque of gasoline engines. You can haul anything with them. That's why all modern locomotives use a diesel generator to power an electric drive system.

They also have better acceleration, and are cheaper and more reliable. It's the batteries that cost money, right now.

Seriously. Look up the torque on a 100 kw DC motor. That's about the horse-power power you get from a big-block V-8, but three times the torque.

#10 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-09-10 09:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

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I know that Heliumrat,

But getting it to last a long time in a hard working 1500 series truck is a different animal.

#11 | Posted by boaz at 2017-09-10 10:04 PM | Reply

And for right now, recharging takes too long. Doesn't take a lot of time to refill a gas tank.

#12 | Posted by boaz at 2017-09-10 10:05 PM | Reply

Boom!

#13 | Posted by fresno500 at 2017-09-10 10:29 PM | Reply

How is it that Europe and and China can do it, Boaz?

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-09-10 10:35 PM | Reply

Don't worry about It, Boaz. When you buy your jacked up F1500 dually simply slide in an 8 track of a Ford big block V8. Crank it up to ten and you'll still be able to annoy everyone around you.

I've been trying to sell the family's buggy whip factory for 109 years, maybe you'd be interested.

#15 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-09-11 12:00 AM | Reply

* All electric F1500

#16 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-09-11 12:01 AM | Reply

How is it that Europe and and China can do it, Boaz?

Different cultures than ours.

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2017-09-11 08:14 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

nikolamotor.com

#18 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2017-09-11 08:26 AM | Reply

How is it that Europe and and China can do it, Boaz?
Different cultures than ours.

You mean they're not as collectively stupid?

#19 | Posted by jpw at 2017-09-11 08:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

I like my gasoline, thank you very much.

#4 | Posted by boaz

Of course you do. You killed for it after all. Gasoline must be a part of your faith by now.

Our father who art drunk on gas
hallowed be thy name....

#20 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2017-09-11 09:11 AM | Reply

A battery car is one thing.

A truck with Horse Power and torque is another.

#9 | Posted by boaz

This might give you a little insight of whats coming.

"In a tug-o-war, the electric semi will drag the diesel semi uphill."

futurism.com

#21 | Posted by Daniel at 2017-09-11 09:49 AM | Reply

Central-planning has such a strong track record I'm sure this will go very well. / snark

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-09-11 10:47 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

#22
yes the three rivers dam in china is a disaster! ------ chi-coms can't plan.

#23 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-09-11 02:21 PM | Reply

Gasoline is becoming less and less relevant. It's the new whale oil.

#24 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-09-11 03:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I hope everybody is ready to go ahead and invade North Korea. They're sitting on 6 trillion in precious metals required for the green revolution. Can't extract it, they don't have tech... but we do.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-11 03:17 PM | Reply

yes the three rivers dam in china is a disaster! ------ chi-coms can't plan.

#23 | POSTED BY CJK85 AT 2017-09-11 02:21 PM | FLAG:

It's built on a fault line and has caused massive erosion in the area and changed the entire system of how sediment flows, setting up long term flooding problems their is no plan to deal with. Choking off the flow is making Shanghai increasingly vulnerable to flooding.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-11 03:22 PM | Reply

--------. China won't do any such thing. SINOPEC, the government-run industry is very powerful and tied closely to Russia as well as Chinese oil investment.
Every few years China declares some such ridiculous crap.

A few years ago China declared that it would "end poverty" in their country by 2020.
They also claimed in 2008 that they would stabilize the housing market and stop rampant housing inflation by 2015.
Oh yes, and the every-five-years claim that they will control pollution.
Puh-leeze.

#27 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-09-11 04:50 PM | Reply

The looming ban on combustion-engine automobiles will goad both local and global automakers to focus on introducing more zero-emission electric cars to help clean up smog-choked major cities.

I wonder where they get the electricity from. Damn, I forgot they get it out of the wall in their house.

#28 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-11 05:53 PM | Reply

We have roads.
We have electricity.
What's missing??

#5 | Posted by snoofy

Charging stations every 20 miles.

#29 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-09-11 05:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#18

The prototype they unveiled last May uses a Natural Gas powered turbine engine to charge the batteries, their Hydrogen cell prototype is mere fantasy right now. The hybrid solution will provide the 1k-1.2k range that the trucking companies demand (drivers are limited to 11 hour driving stints (max 70 hours/week with a 34 hour break between stints) which covers about 770 miles per legally allowed leg. Oh, and the price is a mere $375K, as opposed to $113-135K for a diesel truck.

www.truckingnewsonline.com">Nikola One: Class 8 Electric Truck Has a 1,200-mile Range

#21

No one will buy a Class 8 truck that only goes 300 miles, word is that like Nikola, Tesla is looking at a Natural Gas hybrid solution in the near term.

Price is going to be the key for whether trucking companies jump on this, they have been slow to change over to CNG/LNG trucks because of a $30K increase in costs which you recoup in fuel savings over 4 years. Such being the case, you can imagine how they are looking at a $210K jump per truck.

#30 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-09-11 06:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Sorry, here is the Link

#31 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-09-11 06:16 PM | Reply

Central-planning has such a strong track record I'm sure this will go very well. / snark

#22 | Posted by JeffJ

Umm Feds were very successful in raising fuel efficiency and reducing emissions here. Every time they do it the automakers manage to make it happen. What's so different?

#32 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-11 06:32 PM | Reply

Charging stations every 20 miles.

#29 | Posted by Sniper

Coming soon to a "gas" station near you. Simply not enough demand yet. They are popping up all over the UK - wonder why? Oh yeah - demand.

#33 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-11 06:34 PM | Reply

#27 | Posted by e1g1

Just like they are going to be dependent on coal and gas and not green electricity right? Like they haven't canceled a ton of coal plants mid construction and are investing billions annually in Green energy development and production right?

This is why China WILL make it happen: Google

#34 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-11 06:36 PM | Reply

#30 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer

It's only a matter of time. Costs will come down just as they are in Electric cars too. Bleeding Edge is always the most expensive place to be. Don't forget there are a LOT of local trucking companies that don't put on 300 miles a day. And if the incentives are there it will only speed up the move.

#35 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-09-11 06:38 PM | Reply

California was very successful in raising fuel efficiency and reducing emissions here.

FTFY.

#35

Of course, but not in the near future. Don't confuse local trucking companies (who are all heading to CNG) with long haul carriers that need Class 8 haulers, completely different tractors.

CNG/LNG is going to be the cost-effective solution for the next 15 years or so, most LNG Tractors are P-Zev anyway and much cheaper. Once Diesel goes back up and NG stays where it is then at best you will see hybrids like the Nikola until the end of the '20s.

#36 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-09-11 07:00 PM | Reply

"Coming soon to a "gas" station near you. Simply not enough demand yet. They are popping up all over the UK - wonder why? Oh yeah - demand."

They're all over Europe. But the biggest difference between Europe and the US is the sheer size, along with the fact that much of that terrain is sparsely inhabited or uninhabited. Think of all the places in the American west where you can get sideways today on fuel, even driving a reasonably efficient vehicle. And that's nothing compared to the distances you'd need to cover in order to reach a city like Fairbanks, Alaska from the continental US. China is probabl;y the most analogous example we could hope for outside of Russia or Canada, but the Chinese have never been very good at creating their own technological breakthroughs. They've always excelled at copying others. That's fine. Let them work out the kinks and we'll do to them what they have been doing to the rest of us for the last 70 years or so.

Petroleum-powered vehicles are on their way out for most drivers, but there is still a huge gap in technology when it comes to supporting long-haul transport.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-09-11 08:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Think of all the places in the American west where you can get sideways today on fuel, even driving a reasonably efficient vehicle.

One of the disadvantages of cow proximity. :-)

#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-09-11 08:42 PM | Reply

So much for American Exceptionalism.

#39 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2017-09-12 09:50 AM | Reply

So much for American Exceptionalism.

#39 | Posted by FedUpWithPols

Just one more thing in a long list of things that every other industrialized country manages to accomplish that we somehow can't do. That's Exceptionalism, isn't it?

#40 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-09-12 10:43 AM | Reply

#26
so are the cities of los angeles, san francisco and seattle, and many more...

#41 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-09-12 01:23 PM | Reply

The difference is alternative travel. Just because gasoline cars would be phased out?

I was in Europe. Their trains are great - never needed a car to get somewhere and I could travel all over the place and to different countries. Most I knew in France, Germany, and England- -they walked.

America isn't so lucky. Trains our lousy and slow - so are buses. We the People like to travel and now - so we need are cars.

China - I don't know.

After watching youtube videos of drivers in Russia - they shouldn't own cars or own roads.

#42 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-09-12 02:34 PM | Reply

A battery car is one thing.
A truck with Horse Power and torque is another.

#9 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-09-10 09:42 PM

You want Torque? Every train locomotive in the world uses electric power.

We haven't had a locomotive with a mechanical connection between the wheels and the diesel engine in 60 years. Modern locomotives are basically a huge diesel generator and a separate electric motor.

At standstill, main generator output is initially low voltage/high current, often in excess of 1000 amperes per motor at full power. When the locomotive is at or near standstill, current flow will be limited only by the DC resistance of the motor windings and interconnecting circuitry, as well as the capacity of the main generator itself. Torque in a series-wound motor is approximately proportional to the square of the current. Hence, the traction motors will produce their highest torque, causing the locomotive to develop maximum tractive effort, enabling it to overcome the inertia of the train. This effect is analogous to what happens in an automobile automatic transmission at start-up, where it is in first gear and thus producing maximum torque multiplication.

#43 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-09-12 04:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If we gave a fraction of the support for roads to supporting rail we would have a fantastic system. Unfortunately our rail system is the red-headed stepchild of the transportation industry. In 2016 the total federal budget for rail was $1.7 Billion out of a $76 billion federal transportation budget.

#44 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-09-12 04:59 PM | Reply

We actually have a pretty good rail system. It's Fast Enough Rail. It's just cargo oriented, not passenger oriented which isn't a bad thing giving our geography.

#45 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-09-13 12:48 PM | Reply

We actually have a pretty good rail system. It's Fast Enough Rail. It's just cargo oriented, not passenger oriented which isn't a bad thing giving our geography.

#45 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2017-09-13 12:48 PM | REPLY

We have a ton of stuff that is shipped inefficiently by truck simply because our rail system lacks capacity because the government does not support building new lines except at a laughably small pace

rail ships 471 tons 1 mile on 1 gallon of fuel and only requires 2 men to run a 216 car train

trucks only ship 124 tons 1 mile on 1 gallon of fuel and require 1 driver for 1 truck and would require 1,050 trucks to haul the equivalent capacity of the 216 car train

When a building is built for commerce the government builds roads to get to that building but not rails. If a company wants to service that building by road, they just need trucks. If a company wants to service that building by rail they have to buy land and build a rail spur first.

#46 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-09-13 01:18 PM | Reply

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