Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, August 12, 2017

Hundreds of far-right demonstrators wielded torches as they marched on to the University of Virginia campus in Charlottesville on Friday night and reportedly attacked a much smaller group of counter-protesters who had linked arms around a statue of Thomas Jefferson. Emily Gorcenski was among the protesters who said they were hit with the mace spray. "[They] completely surrounded us and wouldn't let us out." She said police did not intervene until long after the rightwing marchers had struck out at protesters. "I saw hundreds of people chanting Nazi slogans and police do nothing."

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Two male protesters who said they were also maced, and did not wish to be named, described far-right protesters moving from verbal abuse, to pushing and shoving protesters, to the noxious spray.

"Someone from the alt right maced me right in the face -- unprovoked," said one. "After they maced people they started punching people and hitting them with torches." Several protesters said a woman using a wheelchair was among those sprayed.

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In an interview, West said: "The crypto-fascists, the neofascists, the neo-Nazis now feel so empowered, not just by Trump but by the whole shift in the nation towards scapegoats.

"I don't like this talk about ‘alt-right', that's an unnecessary abstraction. These are neofascists in contemporary garb."

On Saturday the small college city will face down a full scale Unite the Right rally, which is predicted to be the country's largest in a decade.

#1 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 08:52 AM | Reply


Throughout campaign Trump's campaign, I had said on multiple occasions that his over-the-top rhetoric would awaken a monster that he will not be able to control....

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-08-12 09:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Condemnation from all sides should be loud and quick towards these Neo-Nazi scumbags. They can use whatever name they want for their movement but we all know who and what they are. Nothing good can or will come from their hate inspired movement.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-12 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

What is sad is that I am not surprised at all. I am troubled by the direction of this country. I understand disagreeing with things but people like this?

#4 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-08-12 10:12 AM | Reply

Lord, what a mess this miscreant Trump is making of America.

#5 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 11:00 AM | Reply

"white nationalists -- some waving Confederate flags, chanting Nazi-era slogans, wearing helmets and carrying shields -- converged on the statue of Robert E. Lee in the city's Emancipation Park and the surrounding streets, and as the police retreated. The protest was the apparent culmination of more than a year of debate and division over the fate of the statue.

Saturday's rally was supposed to start at noon, but the scene at the park had grown chaotic by late morning, with white nationalists and neo-Nazis facing off "

-NYT

#6 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 12:18 PM | Reply

Best comment from Facebook:

"Not to take away from the seriousness of this issue...but they are carrying freaking tiki torches."

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-12 01:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

---- got ugly...cops had to shut it down.

Goddam disgusting hillbilly scum...

#8 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-08-12 01:45 PM | Reply

trumps base sure are attractive folk.

#9 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 02:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

These confederate scum are traitors. This is not their country.

#10 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-12 02:15 PM | Reply

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Trump tweets about the violence but not the hate and bigotry of his supporters that created it. Speakers at the event openly said they were there for trump and thanked him.

#11 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-08-12 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's okay to support their right to speak but not the message.

Let them have their say but just ignore them, the amount of attention that they are getting is what they want.

#12 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-08-12 02:25 PM | Reply

This should stop all the Liberal talk about Trump inciting fascism.

#13 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2017-08-12 02:34 PM | Reply

They've been ordered to clear the area. Rally cancelled. Time to water them with pepper spray like you would a Berkeley hippy.

#14 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-08-12 02:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

#15 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-08-12 02:47 PM | Reply

#15

You didn't get the e-mail?

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2017-08-12 02:53 PM | Reply

Now there's a report of a car crashing into the group of protesters.

#17 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 03:05 PM | Reply

www.nydailynews.com

#18 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 03:08 PM | Reply

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

It sounds like citronella burning in a tiki torch.

LOL

#19 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 03:08 PM | Reply

Trump incites White right-wing violence. And then acts shocked and outraged when it occurs. ---- him. He needs to go.

#20 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-08-12 03:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 4

Looks like your typical Republican convention.
Let's fill the prisons with these TaliBundy scum.

#22 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-08-12 03:30 PM | Reply

"CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) -- A car plowed into a crowd of people peacefully protesting a white nationalist rally Saturday in a Virginia college town, killing one person, sending at least 26 others to hospitals and ratcheting up tension in an increasingly violent confrontation."

#23 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 04:37 PM | Reply

#21. Holy eff.

Trump has to go.

#25 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 04:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You oh so tolerant liberals. People are entitled to their opinion, even if you don't like it. When you "counter protest", you invite violence. Ever notice there's no counter protests at BLM or anything at the indoctrinated colleges? It's because the rest of the sane country doesn't care, so we let you "protest". Now, when others do it, you try to divert attention and get surrounded and wonder why things get out of hand.

You cant keep telling one race it cant be proud of it's heritage while telling another one it can.

That's who race wars get started.

#26 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-12 04:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

That's "How" race wars happen..

#27 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-12 04:39 PM | Reply

why am i not surprised babbles and boaz are deflecting for nazis to attack liberals?

Look in the mirror, fellas. You are part of the problem.

#30 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 04:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

How does it feel to run interference for actual neo nazis on a blog?

Not good, I'm betting, but that's the corner you've painted yourselves into by always attacking and blaming the left.

Enjoy.

#32 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

if you had a point you aren't intelligent enough to make it.

#34 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 04:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We can assume that the Nazis driving the car was persuaded someone had to die that day.

No fun being a Nazis if no one dies.

#37 | Posted by Zed at 2017-08-12 05:00 PM | Reply

why am i not surprised babbles and boaz are deflecting for nazis to attack liberals?

I want to see the hypocrisy of your position. Neither me nor babbs supports racists or nazis. But we do understand their anger. As I said before, you cannot tell one race they cant be proud and another they can. That's pitting one against the other. I'm surprised you cant see the divisiveness...

#39 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-12 05:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"boaz.....keep up the fight...I fairly certain my 'voice' will be removed shortly..."

Hope springs eternal, nazi apologist.

#41 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 05:03 PM | Reply

"Neither me nor babbs supports racists or nazis. But we do understand their anger. "

LMAO

#42 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 05:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"To the privileged equality feels like oppression"

#44 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 05:05 PM | Reply

"But we do understand their anger"

Can't separate anger and violence from fascism.

#45 | Posted by Zed at 2017-08-12 05:05 PM | Reply

#43 no he's just a Texan. He doesn't think the statue of Cornwallis in Concord should be removed.

#49 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 05:11 PM | Reply

So the nazis aren't nazis when you defend them?

#53 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 05:16 PM | Reply

So the nazis aren't nazis when you defend them?

#54 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 05:16 PM | Reply

#39

What do you and BL2 have to be angry about? You're both government employees, set with your pensions and health care for life and embarking on third or fourth careers.

#58 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-08-12 05:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I said reporting was biased and proved it with a picture you won't see here from the left"

You also said liberals think killing cops and burning cities is okay.

Stop saying stupid things if you want to be taken seriously.

Do you even want to be taken seriously?

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-12 05:21 PM | Reply

#33 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2017-08-12 04:53 PM | FLAG:

yes driving a car into a crowd of counter protesters is using the first amendment.
go get a margarita and think about you the crap you type. jesus h.

#64 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 05:29 PM | Reply

You're both government employees, set with your pensions and health care for life and embarking on third or fourth careers.
#58 | Posted by TedBaxter

You liberals really do hate people who made good choices in their lives, don't you?

Jealousy is the hallmark of the liberal.

#68 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-12 05:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You liberals really do hate people who made good choices in their lives, don't you?

Jealousy is the hallmark of the liberal.

Posted by boaz at 2017-08-12 05:34 PM | Reply

Your liberal shtick is way beyond stale at this point.

#72 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 05:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Also, for what it's worth, #57 was a cheap shot. We can all hate each other without getting personal. Personal tragedy shouldn't be used as fodder to score cheap points on an anonymous blog imo.

#73 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-08-12 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- #57 was a cheap shot.

Yeah, it was. And 69 was a stupid shot. Can't we just all get a bong?

#74 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 05:48 PM | Reply

OK, how about a nothing burger instead. I'll buy.

#76 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 05:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Good bye to my Juan
Goodbye Rosalita
Adios mis amigos HeyZeuss why Maria
You won't have a name
When you ride the big airplane
All they will call you
Will be "deportees"

#88 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 05:57 PM | Reply

We're not running anywhere...We're being run off.
babbs.

victimhood is the hallmark of the right.

and all your bs about policy? please.

#89 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 05:58 PM | Reply

How about a vape? We could all just get a Volcano.

#91 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 06:00 PM | Reply

91, in!

#93 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 06:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

victimhood is the hallmark of the right.

It's just a bit of a shock to move from constant bitching about everything the government does to having to defend everything the government does just because it's "your" side.

Even when it's basically the same stuff. POTUS playing golf would be a good example.

#98 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-08-12 06:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Afk went North Korea nuclear to change the topic of the White Nationalist hate thread.

#100 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 06:19 PM | Reply

He gets hysterical easily.

#101 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 06:20 PM | Reply

#101 was about MTW8.

Making threats and mentioning past tragedies were both unfortunate and unwise.

But we all make mistakes. Well, except for Bradford.

#102 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 06:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The liberals have their panties bunched that someone accepted his invitation to dance.

That old "they go low, we go high" fairy tale. It's very sweet. Down right adorable.

#103 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 06:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#102 I miss Bradford, very clever fellow. When I found out who it really was, frankly I couldn't believe it.

#105 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 06:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#105

Neither could Bradford.

He was cringing.

#106 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 06:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sic Semper Tyrannis

#107 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-08-12 06:34 PM | Reply

During the Civil War, at least one regiment of the United States Colored Troops used it as their motto.

John Wilkes Booth wrote in his diary that he shouted "Sic semper tyrannis" after shooting U.S. President Abraham Lincoln on April 14, 1865, in part because of the association with the assassination of Caesar. The phrase was also in the pro-Confederate Civil War song Maryland, My Maryland, which was popular at the time with Southern sympathizers in Maryland, such as Booth. The song, containing the phrase, is now the official state song of Maryland.

Timothy McVeigh was wearing a T-shirt with this phrase and a picture of Lincoln on it when he was arrested on April 19, 1995, the day of the Oklahoma City bombing.

#108 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-08-12 06:39 PM | Reply

During the Civil War, at least one regiment of the United States Colored Troops used it as their motto.

John Wilkes Booth wrote in his diary that he shouted "Sic semper tyrannis" after shooting U.S. President Abraham Lincoln on April 14, 1865, in part because of the association with the assassination of Caesar. The phrase was also in the pro-Confederate Civil War song Maryland, My Maryland, which was popular at the time with Southern sympathizers in Maryland, such as Booth. The song, containing the phrase, is now the official state song of Maryland.

Timothy McVeigh was wearing a T-shirt with this phrase and a picture of Lincoln on it when he was arrested on April 19, 1995, the day of the Oklahoma City bombing.

#108 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-08-12 06:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow, that's fascinating information. Lunatics on the fringe have a long history of portraying themselves as victims, I suppose.

#109 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 06:43 PM | Reply

#102 I miss Bradford, very clever fellow. When I found out who it really was, frankly I couldn't believe it.

#105 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:
| Funny: 1

What?? Who was it? I must have been absent that day. You're right, I liked his goofy posts, but I never knew what became of him.

#110 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 06:46 PM | Reply

#57) Wow, that was about the most loathsome thing I've ever read here.

#111 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-12 06:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

ok that was funny, lesson is NEVER share personal stuff with strangers on the internet.

Funny how after all these years people still need to learn that lesson.

#112 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-08-12 06:51 PM | Reply

#68

Who said I'm jealous? Simply pointing out your situation (based solely on what you'be said). Add to that you have the president you want, the congress you want, the SC you want.

Asking again, what do you have to be angry about? Unless you're one of those who's only happy when you're unhappy.

#113 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-08-12 06:56 PM | Reply

#110 It was moder8. It was so good even Rcade could barely punish him.

#114 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 06:58 PM | Reply

#109
and my home state's motto, Virginia.

#115 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-08-12 06:58 PM | Reply

#110 It was moder8. It was so good even Rcade could barely punish him.

#114 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

What??? OMG.

Respect, Moder8.

#116 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 06:59 PM | Reply

#20 Oops, meant to flag NW but hit Funny instead.

#117 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 07:19 PM | Reply

"lesson is NEVER share personal stuff with strangers on the internet.
Funny how after all these years people still need to learn that lesson."

Lesson #2: Refrain from drunken posting. You may forget what you post, but others won't.

#118 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 07:30 PM | Reply

#118

True, but there were lines crossed today, and everyone should apologize.

#119 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-08-12 07:56 PM | Reply

"MS, you are a bully."

Without taking sides, I'd just like to say this strikes me as an odd comment/criticism to make on this site.

#120 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 08:00 PM | Reply

True, but there were lines crossed today, and everyone should apologize.

Apologies and time outs, preferably self-induced. For the sake of one's own mental health if nothing else. This is too much hate to be healthy:

"If I get more explicit about leaving with A DEEP SEEDED HATRED FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU.....I'll be in violation
of "policy,"....."

#121 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 08:06 PM | Reply

Should be in quotes: "True, but there were lines crossed today, and everyone should apologize."

#122 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 08:09 PM | Reply

Good God gravy Marie. Can't we all just along???? Even I am not that crabby and I have a legit excuse too.

#123 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 08:09 PM | Reply

This thread got weird.

#125 | Posted by patron at 2017-08-12 08:21 PM | Reply

Your numbers are dwindling because you are all insane conspiracy theorists.

You may think you are helping but you are not.

#126 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-08-12 08:28 PM | Reply

youtu.be

youtu.be

Wow chill guys. I've exchanged words and insults with my fair share of posters but Holy S@#t ! Go get some of corkys weed and chill guys.

#127 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-08-12 08:54 PM | Reply

Go get some of corkys weed and chill guys.

Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-08-12 08:54 PM | Reply

No thanks it's laced with Hillary Dust. I want to hold onto my sanity as long as I can.

#128 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 08:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

If Mad is still allowed to post after today it will confirm everything I believe about the policy here.

#129 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 09:01 PM | Reply

True.... You got some ditch weed down your way? We could Bonfire?

#130 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-08-12 09:02 PM | Reply

------- Nazi's. This is getting out of hand.

I do believe we already destroyed them once.

If have to home to Virginia and do it again I am gonna be pissed.

This is BS.

I am proud of how Virginia is handling this. Virginians are good people. They will do the right thing.

Let's see if Trump does the right thing now.

#131 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 09:05 PM | Reply

Sorry I don't do weed. I projectile vomit if I even come close to it.

#132 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 09:05 PM | Reply

If I have to go home and put these bastards in their places I am gonna be pissed...

#133 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 09:07 PM | Reply

Let's see if Trump does the right thing now.
#131 | Posted by donnerbo

hahahahahahahahaha

#134 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-08-12 09:14 PM | Reply

The Virginians I know are some of the finest people in America.

#135 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 09:19 PM | Reply

If Mad is still allowed to post after today it will confirm everything I believe about the policy here.

#129 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL AT 2017-08-12 09:01 PM | FLAG:

This isn't Shanghai bro. RCADE doesn't run this place like you're used to.

#136 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 09:20 PM | Reply

I've been on the DR for at least 10 years. Had to change my handle four times, and not because I wanted to. Even innocuous posts get flagged and banned here, if it's by a conservative. So we'll see.

#138 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 09:24 PM | Reply

All this outrage is hysterical. Where is the outrage when "progressives" violently repress free speech at Berkeley, Evergreen. Oberlin, Claremont, etc.?

Guess that's different.

#140 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-08-12 09:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sheesh, things got a little weird in this thread..

#141 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-08-12 09:30 PM | Reply

"A little"
-putting it mildly.

#142 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-08-12 09:31 PM | Reply

Afk asked if you were a baby killer. It was a rhetorical question. He didn't accuse you of being one.

I know many of my posts are on the line. Yours was way over the line. You crossed the line, burned and pissed on it on the way over. Then when you were called out even by people on your own side, you doubled down. But it won't matter.

#143 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

When will trump come out and call this what it is ? This was an act of Terrorism. An American was killed today standing up to Nazi's.

#144 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 09:34 PM | Reply

Jeez, Null. You're such a right-wing troll now. Sad.

#145 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-12 09:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Not trying to fool or humiliate anyone. And I neither trust nor distrust anybody. Who cares? I'm just a curious observer on this one.

#147 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 09:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- Jeez, Null. You're such a right-wing troll now. Sad.

Classic devolution.

#149 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 09:58 PM | Reply

People supporting Nazis don't get the kid gloves.

60 million died in WW2. 40 million in WW1.

The actions of the Nazis in America are not to be defended.

Donald Trump supports them. Is supported by them.

#150 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 09:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

I don't think Trump supports Nazis. He has a Jewish daughter and grandkids after all. And I'm not sure what WW1 has to do with anything. But point taken.

#151 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Pulling the Kushner card is pretty weak. It certainly isn't good enough for Soros. Why do the Trumps get away with leading the Nazis in America?

No excuse.

#152 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 10:17 PM | Reply

"Those people "on my side" are more interested in feigning neutrality to present a false appearance of being above the fray of politics. The only people they are fooling is themselves."

Could be that; could also be:

"The liberals have their panties bunched that someone accepted his invitation to dance.
That old "they go low, we go high" fairy tale. It's very sweet. Down right adorable.
#103 | Posted by BruceBanner"

#153 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-12 10:18 PM | Reply

I see. So do you actually believe that Donald Trump is an anti-semite? And that the Nazis were running Germany in World War I?

#154 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:23 PM | Reply

They're everywhere, those Nazis. They somehow get hired at Google. They're in the White House. And they're even capable of time travel.

#155 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

I see. You have no counterargument. You would like to move on to another topic. I would rather not.

#156 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 10:26 PM | Reply

You argued that Trump supports Nazis. I don't concur. Feel free to make another argument to support your thesis.

#157 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:32 PM | Reply

I cite reality.

#158 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 10:37 PM | Reply

There is NO question that Nazis and other Fascists in this country support Trump. As do the KKK and other White Power groups. Trump is their go to guy.

#159 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 10:39 PM | Reply

I agree with that bit. I understand that many--maybe most--skinheads support Trump. What isn't clear is that Trump supports them. So, make it clear. You're the one who said so.

It wouldn't be risible to say that black militants supported Obama. It would be a stretch to say that Obama supported black separatists. To say such a thing I would need to produce evidence, one would think.

#160 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's funny how the definition of "fascist" has changed, too. Interesting YT piece about dictionaries 10 years ago defining the term, and not one of them used the phrase "right-wing" to describe it.

#161 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:46 PM | Reply

There's nothing more special than being lectured on racism from a guy named "whitedevil"

#162 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 10:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#162 |

Hilarious.

#163 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 11:01 PM | Reply

It's a wonderful luxury to be able to discuss the finer points of Neofascists and neo-Nazis.

For some people, hate is hate, and it's un-American.

#164 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-12 11:08 PM | Reply

It might be because I'm watching this unfold from outside the country, but am I the only one wondering "Who's funding this?"

#165 | Posted by sentinel at 2017-08-12 11:11 PM | Reply

--There's nothing more special than being lectured on racism from a guy named "whitedevil"

If you weren't abysmally ignorant about Chinese language and culture, you would know that "whitedevil" is a term of abuse for white foreigners.

#166 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-08-12 11:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Remember when donald trump spent three days "forgetting" who david duke was after his endorsement? This admin has not only refused to unequivocally denounce white supremists, they put bannon in the white house.

#167 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:16 PM | Reply

trumpifidian to the rescue. flag me, cowboy.

#168 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So Nulli I'm sure they say that all the time. Funny it doesn't sound Cantonese or Manderin to me but I am ignorant of the Sino languages. Quack.

#169 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 11:26 PM | Reply

whitedevil, it's pretty clear to some of us that trump needs the racist vote.

www.rawstory.com

#170 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:27 PM | Reply

There's nothing more special than being lectured on racism from a guy named "whitedevil"

Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 10:59 PM | Reply

About enough to frost one's balls I'd reckon.

#171 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 11:27 PM | Reply

#166

www.youtube.com

#172 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 11:28 PM | Reply

off subject: what happened to nulli? He was once one of my favorite posters...now he's a right wing troll.

#173 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

--flag me, cowboy.

I don't use abusive or offensive flags, idiot. I leave that to Corky.

#174 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-08-12 11:30 PM | Reply

- now he's a right wing troll.

Sir Fuggles Doublebottom, Pompous Ass and rwing troll.

#175 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 11:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Trump hires another racist:

crooksandliars.com

#176 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:33 PM | Reply

Looking at the man's girth I'd say agriculture has been very good to him.

#177 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-12 11:38 PM | Reply

Guizi, guai lo, yang guiz. I've been called them all. They all mean White Devil. Malcolm X also used the term. And I knew it would drive retorters crazy. It's perfect.

#178 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 11:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

off subject: what happened to nulli? He was once one of my favorite posters...now he's a right wing troll.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-12 11:30 PM | Reply

Massive amounts of pot I'd reckon. Fried his brain

#179 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-12 11:44 PM | Reply

#172 | POSTED BY CORKY

Classic projection there.

#180 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-08-12 11:46 PM | Reply

#178 hmmmm my English to Yellow Peril dictionary translates that to Cinnabon Eric.

You know I deserve a FF ;-)

#181 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-13 12:20 AM | Reply

#180

Classic baseless stupid remark.

#182 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-13 12:26 AM | Reply

Sorry but even 'God' agrees, when you defend Nazis, there are no limits. It was cruel but justified Babbs. Stop defending Nazis and projecting right-wing failings on Liberals.

Just grow the F up and stop acting like a Nazi supporter and nobody will cut you down to size.

#183 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 12:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's funny how the definition of "fascist" has changed, too. Interesting YT piece about dictionaries 10 years ago defining the term, and not one of them used the phrase "right-wing" to describe it.

#161 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 10:46 PM | Reply

This is one of the sillier conspiracy theories I've seen of late. I'm sorry, but if the YT did a piece about dictionaries changing the definition of "fascist" 10 years ago to add "right-wing", they need better research. I learned fascism was a right-wing philosophy more than 30 years ago, and my teacher was definitely not from the left-wing. I just happen to have a copy of "The Random House Dictionary of the English Language" printed in 1987. For "fascist", definition number 3 is "a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views". That means at least 30 years ago, at least Random House used "right-wing" in it's definition. That was pretty easy to refute, so I wonder what their "research" consisted of? If I were doing such a piece, I'd at least have looked at a number of old dictionaries in the library or something. The most interesting would probably be during the inter-war period and just after WWII. We wouldn't have to go back any further than about 1914, as the term originates from about then. Shall we do the research, or can we just admit fascism has been associated with the right-wing for a very long time?

#184 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2017-08-13 12:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Ok. Fair enough.

#185 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-13 01:07 AM | Reply

"You're full of ----"

"Ok. Fair enough."

Love this place.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 01:15 AM | Reply

Ernst Röhm:
Occupation Stabschef, Sturmabteilung (SA)
Political party National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP)

Röhm was a prominent member of the party's radical faction. This group put emphasis on the words "socialist" and "workers" in the party's name, which put them ideologically closer to the Communists.

(from wiki, groan)

I'll grant you this, your professors and their ilk were sucessful into perverting this into a right wing movement.

#187 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 08:33 AM | Reply

LOL, like you're not proud to claim the Nazis as part of your right wing.
Or are you just racist on the Internet, for funsies?

#188 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 08:44 AM | Reply

Snoofy,

Proud to claim? Why, it's incorrect.

Here more on Röhm for wiki:

They (The Nazis) largely rejected capitalism (which they associated with Jews), and pushed for nationalization of major industrial firms, expansion of worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy, and social equality. Röhm spoke of a "second revolution" against the "Reaktion" (the National Socialist label for conservatives).

"nationalization of major industrial firms, expansion of worker control, confiscation and redistribution of the estates of the old aristocracy" does that sound right wing to you?

#189 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 09:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

One other thing...

Hitler was greatly influenced by the Fascist movement in Italy under Benito Mussolini (a former socialist).

February 1909, Mussolini once again left Italy, this time to take the job as the secretary of the labor party in the Italian-speaking city of Trento, which at the time was part of Austria-Hungary. He also did office work for the local Socialist Party, and edited its newspaper L'Avvenire del Lavoratore (The Future of the Worker). Returning to Italy, he spent a brief time in Milan, and then in 1910 he returned to his hometown of Forlì, where he edited the weekly Lotta di classe (The Class Struggle).

wiki

#190 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 09:29 AM | Reply

Ernst Röhm:
Occupation Stabschef, Sturmabteilung (SA)
Political party National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP)

Röhm was a prominent member of the party's radical faction. This group put emphasis on the words "socialist" and "workers" in the party's name, which put them ideologically closer to the Communists.

(from wiki, groan)

I'll grant you this, your professors and their ilk were sucessful into perverting this into a right wing movement.

#187 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 08:33 AM | Reply

I'm assuming this was addressed to me. Ernst Röhm may have be left-wing, but then again, he was killed during the "Night of the Long Knives" when Hitler purged a number of "radical elements" from the Nazi party. I won't get into the foolish accusation of my very right-wing teacher "perverting" fascism into a right-wing movement, but this debate about whether fascism was right- or left-wing isn't new. It was occurring even as the philosophy was being established.

My main point was the "fact" that was being presented was, in fact, not true. There was no recent change to the definition that suddenly added "right-wing". I'll leave the debate of whether fascism and Nazi-ism are truly right-wing or not to political scientists, as they've been debating in for over a century now.

#191 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2017-08-13 09:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In my opinion the early facsim of Mussolini could only be related to right wing in one way...nationalism.

"After being ousted by the Italian Socialist Party for his support of Italian intervention, Mussolini made a radical transformation, ending his support for class conflict and joining in support of revolutionary nationalism transcending class lines."

again from wiki.

That is really all I have to say on this subject and on this wretched site. Good luck with obliterating musty old Conferderate memorabilia, at least on public lands, but everywhere else you are picking at scabs, creating a body count and resembling the book burning Nazis you say you oppose.

#192 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 09:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Here we go again, the idiotic fascism is a leftist ideal bullshart.

Give it up already!

#193 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 10:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Winning is when Gal Tuesday essentially types the same reply as yourself at the same time! NW.

#198 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 10:49 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sometimes on fb people will try to shut liberals down by saying, You guys claim to be tolerant, but you aren't tolerant at all. My reply: Liberals never claimed to be tolerant of the intolerant.

#200 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 10:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Really not buying that.

#196 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

What the hell are you babbling about? Let me see if I can explain it...Some time ago,
Corky who I almost always disagree with and who I usually see as a knee-jerk pompous
leftist told a very personal story about his wife that really moved me and still does to this day...
for me to twist that into an attack on him just to score points in an internet argument would beyond the pale,...apologies Whitedevil (pale, pun? get it? nevermind).

#201 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 10:54 AM | Reply

The macoutes would have been out marching with the torch bearing -----------.

#199 | POSTED BY DANNI

You dumb twit it is also the name of a 1970 Johhny Jenkins album that I loved.

... the 1970 album by Johnny Jenkins, a former bandleader who first hired Otis Redding in his band, The Pinetoppers, as a singer. "Ton-Ton Macoute!" was originally intended as a Duane Allman solo album, before he departed to form The Allman Brothers. Most of the guitar tracks were played by Allman, and Jenkins later supplied the vocal tracks. The album is a blend of Southern Blues/Rock/Country/Soul. Guest musicians include future Allman Brothers Duane Allman, Berry Oakley, Jaimoe, and Butch Trucks. The standout tracks are Dr. John's "I Walk on Gilded Splinters", Bob Dylan's "Down Along the Cove", and J.D. Loudermilk's "Bad News".

#202 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 10:57 AM | Reply

#201

Exactly- never mind your fee fees, Snowflake. Take your medicine and wait for the next tragedy to troll. You lost this one.

#203 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 10:58 AM | Reply

#201 Speaking of Corky, I think he had it right:

Making threats and mentioning past tragedies were both unfortunate and unwise.
But we all make mistakes. Well, except for Bradford.
Posted by Corky at 2017-08-12 06:23 PM

#204 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 10:59 AM | Reply

The macoutes would have been out marching with the torch bearing -----------.
#199 | POSTED BY DANNI

Doubtful, the Macoutes are descendants of former black African slaves

#205 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 11:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Neo-Nazis and Antifa gathering together in one place. What could go wrong?

#206 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 11:01 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#203 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

keep drinking

#207 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 11:01 AM | Reply

200, The curse of being a Liberal. The two principles are just impossible to explain if you don't get it. The one thing that people need to be aware of is their ignorance and the other is that the one thing that can't be tolerated is intolerance.

#208 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 11:01 AM | Reply

#207 FF.

that is your rebuttal?

#209 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 11:02 AM | Reply

200, The curse of being a Liberal. The two principles are just impossible to explain if you don't get it. The one thing that people need to be aware of is their ignorance and the other is that the one thing that can't be tolerated is intolerance.

#208 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

The problem is that intolerance is being increasingly defined as any thought/premise/idea contrary to leftist dogma.

#210 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

---------

#211 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-08-13 11:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#210

These are Nazis. That should raise the hair at the back of everyone's neck.

#212 | Posted by Zed at 2017-08-13 11:23 AM | Reply

You mean like unarmed black people should be treated the same as unarmed white people by the police? Or that businesses that operate in public shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against other's beliefs? Or that referring to Jim Crow as the good ole days might offend people with different life experiences. No, its not 'any thought/premise/idea' you just knee-jerk everything. You are the foot-in-mouth backsliding king. I don't know why you don't just follow your heart and not the stupid propaganda you swallow.

#213 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 11:24 AM | Reply

It is disappointing that Trump has yet to single out the right wing White Supremacists as being the ones at fault for yesterday's tragedy. Trump is too much of a coward to criticize anyone who supports him. The conclusion it leads to is that Trump is in agreement with them.

The right wing White Supremacist movement is despicable. To compare them with any liberal group is plain dishonest. The White Supremacist are racist to the core and consider violence a viable tool in their fight for dominance. The fact that ANYONE would be reluctant to denounce them is really sad.

#214 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-08-13 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#213

After being called a racist every single ------- time I disagreed with an Obama policy....look in the mirror, tool.

#215 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 11:27 AM | Reply

The problem is that intolerance is being increasingly defined as any thought/premise/idea contrary to leftist dogma.

#210 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Sorry Jeff if I offend you. But I will never tolerate Nazi's and the KKK in my country. And the confederacy is never going to get America back and make it their country. I am proud of the Virginians that stood up against the hate mongering of these people.

And I am sad that an American died standing up against Nazi's in America and the President of the United States did not speak for her but gave comfort and aid to ------- Nazi's.

#216 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-13 11:43 AM | Reply

Who was calling you a racist for opposing an Obama policy, Fox News? I'm guessing if you were called a racist, it would be because you opposed an Obama idea that you supported when it started out as a Republican idea. Mostly though, I think you are just full of ----.

#217 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sorry Jeff if I offend you. But I will never tolerate Nazi's and the KKK in my country.

I wasn't referring to Nazi's and the KKK, Donner. I was referring to the espousal of conservative ideas of limited Constitutional government, federalism, etc.

Who was calling you a racist for opposing an Obama policy,?

You. And people like you.

#218 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 11:48 AM | Reply

Mostly though, I think you are just full of ----.

This is coming from the guy who unquestioningly bought into - hook, line and sinker - racist hate-crime hoaxes in Ann Arbor. It was an epidemic, you proclaimed. Yet it never materialized.

#219 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 11:50 AM | Reply

I tend to disagree with much/most of what JeffJ. But I do not think he is full of ----. I think he calls it as he sees it. I just think he misinterprets what he sees. Keep in mind, he never has supported Trump. He has consistently supported the mainstream conservative candidates. Meaning, politically he is not 'evil', just wrong. :)

#220 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-08-13 12:02 PM | Reply

#220 I agree he misinterprets a lot of stuff (like all the hate crimes in Michigan were hoaxes because some of them were),but that is still the --------.

I agree Jeff isn't evil, just wrong all of the time. I'm beginning to see that domestic reasons and not necessarily the media is mostly influencing his thinking. After all, we all like to --------.

#221 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 12:11 PM | Reply

Hans! Oh Hans! Can you please pull up a post where I called Jeff a racist on the basis that he disagreed with an Obama policy? I don't recall calling you a racist period, but please refresh my memory. That's a pretty harsh accusation without direct evidence.

#222 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 12:15 PM | Reply

It would be a stretch to say that Obama supported black separatists.
whitedevil

what is a black separatist? i've never heard that before.

#223 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-13 12:23 PM | Reply

"you are picking at scabs, creating a body count and resembling the book burning Nazis you say you oppose.

#192 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE AT 2017-08-13 09:52 AM | REPLY | FLAG:"

What?? Why? You are still stung by the Civil War? By giving everyone equal rights?

You're threatening to continue the already substantial body count from your domestic terrorism campaign?

This is not cool.

Meanwhile talking about how Americans should be more gentle with your side. Sorry, this is a hard no.

#224 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 12:31 PM | Reply

The Nazis were lefties is a wholly discredited meme among political historians.

They played to popular socialism to get recognition at first, but then they started killing them off as soon as they could. One would have to be able to think that the Democratic Republic of North Korea is democratic to think that the National Socialist German Workers' Party was socialist.

Besides which, these White Power Heil Trumper Klan members make no pretense about what they are and who they support. The hoods are off.

#225 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-13 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The one other post written and read here that I still weep over...

"Came home to a socialist less home- our sweet girl Buffalo Bob is now resting in peace with her sister Dethspud. 😔" BOCAINK wrote alongside a collage of pictures of Bob and her family.

We should profane the service of the dead,
To sing a requiem and such rest to her
As to peace-parted souls.

#226 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 01:30 PM | Reply

Oh yea

"Be well"

#227 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 01:32 PM | Reply

The Nazis were lefties is a wholly discredited meme among "leftist" political historians.

#228 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 01:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#228 you maintain that the white supremacist uprising is comprised of people believing in leftist ideology. Since you include yourself among them, you claim to be a leftist.

No wonder Trump is your chosen leader.

#229 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 01:38 PM | Reply

The Nazis were lefties is a wholly discredited meme among "leftist" political historians.

#228 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE AT 2017-08-13 01:33 PM |FLAG:

Explain this then.
www.drudge.com

#230 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-13 01:41 PM | Reply

#228

--------, Tonton. No objective scholar believes that.

Nazis were not leftists.

en.wikipedia.org

#231 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-13 01:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nazis and right wing similars always start by using left wing ideology as a cover. Trump did the same.

It's camouflage for hatred.

#232 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 01:52 PM | Reply

#222 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

You have a tendency to over-react to my posts and your responses tend to be emotional and vitriolic.

Having said that, you claim you have never called me a racist and I take you at your word.

Thus, I retract the accusation and offer my apology for making it.

#233 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-13 02:07 PM | Reply

Thanks for the retraction. Vitriolic, maybe to the point of not letting BS slide; by saying 'emotional' however, you are seriously discounting the homework I do. My rebuttals are grounded in very sound logic, and demonstrably so by how much what I say comes to fruition. Do I emphasize the point, sure. You are a liberal waiting to happen, all you have to do is stop playing zero-sum and see that the whole is greater than the sum of parts.

#234 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 02:25 PM | Reply

--------, Tonton. No objective scholar believes that.
Nazis were not leftists.
en.wikipedia.org
#231 | POSTED BY CORKY

Objective as what defined by you?

"I deny the allegations and I defy the alligators!"
- Indicted Chicago Alderman

#235 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:17 PM | Reply

"After being called a racist every single ------- time I disagreed with an Obama policy"

To your way of thinking the only racists active in politics right now are Democrats, correct?

#236 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 03:30 PM | Reply

" I was referring to the espousal of conservative ideas of limited Constitutional government, federalism, etc. "

It's the "etc." where you run into problems, JeffJ.
Look at what the GOP did to racially gerrymander North Carolina.
And take a look at your silence over that act of racism.

#237 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 03:33 PM | Reply

"The problem is that intolerance is being increasingly defined as any thought/premise/idea contrary to leftist dogma."

Only if "tolerance" itself is a leftist dogma.
Intolerance and tolerance cannot coexist.
If you can't figure that out, you're just stupid.

#238 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 03:36 PM | Reply

Here Cork here's a primer...Nazis were influenced by Italian Fascists where were themselves former Socialists.

So I tried honestly to come up with where did the right wing get tied by your side to pro Nazism.

I think it may have to do with several former Nazis being given safe harbor by the US government (operation paperclip?) after World War II particularly scientists, and engineers like Werner Von Braun as a bulwark against the Soviets. Leftists here being pro-Soviet (and after the 1946 elections where they lost both houses) then began to think of the authority (the US government) here as fascists.

#239 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#239 -Yawn.

I had a nutcase landlord very briefly that kept trying to convince me that these books from the 1940s containing 'scientific proof' that white people were the master race due to cranial capacity. He got really angry that I brought up 75 years of legit science that debunks those awful books.

There is a moral to that anecdote Tonto.

#240 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 03:41 PM | Reply

S/B "Nazis were influenced by Italian Fascists who were themselves former Socialists"

apologies

#241 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:41 PM | Reply

No apology needed. You must not have read #225, or any history book ever. Probably not your fault. I know Haiti doesn't have a lot of money for books and stuff.

#242 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 03:45 PM | Reply

There is a moral to that anecdote Tonto.

#240 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

Well I'm sure you read a lot of Chomsky

Chomsky on America's Ugly History: FDR Was Fascist-Friendly Before WWII
Roosevelt once described Mussolini as "that admirable Italian gentleman."
By Zain Raza, Noam Chomsky / Noam Chomsky's Official Site

www.alternet.org

So I guess you're right Boca, Chomsky thought it fascist even before the war!

#243 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:45 PM | Reply

"former Socialists"

So? Does that put them on the left, somehow?
Is socialism as an economic paradigm the exclusive domain of the left?

Let's try a syllogism:
Is universal health care Socialist?
Did Germany roll out universal health care under Otto von Bismarck?
Is Otto von Bismark a Socialist?

#244 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 03:48 PM | Reply

Chomsky? Do I sound like a Bro to you? My ideology is part Jesus, part Stewart, part Colbert, mixed with a Family Guy montage as interpreted by Trey Parker and Matt Stone. When do you ever hear me parroting a pundit? I'm a little too practical to be an ideologue. Good luck painting that corner.

#245 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 03:51 PM | Reply

Did Germany keep universal health care under the Nazis?

Is Otto von Bismark a Socialist?

No, he's dead.

#246 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:51 PM | Reply

Wow, stupid. You thought you were cute but you just self-retorted out of your own argument try to get obtuse....you are out of your league Tonts.

#247 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 03:55 PM | Reply

Wow, stupid. You thought you were cute but you just self-retorted out of your own argument try to get obtuse....you are out of your league Tonts.

#247 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

Do tell.

#248 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:56 PM | Reply

where did I self-retort myself, Protagoras of Abdera?

#249 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:59 PM | Reply

Is Otto von Bismark a Socialist?

No

Did Germany keep universal health care under the Nazis?

Yes

Is universal health care a right or left passion?

Again where did I self retort?

#250 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 04:05 PM | Reply

Mussolini and Van Braun are dead so they couldn't be socialists.

Its not as funny if I have to explain it, but it highlights you lack of self-awareness. No wonder you support Republicans.

#251 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 04:05 PM | Reply

Mussolini and Hitler were right-wing fascists. You might as well debate Global Warming's legitimacy.

#252 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 04:07 PM | Reply

#239 -Yawn.

Bigly Yawn.

The wiki link provided gives an accurate scholarly history of why Nazism is on the political right side of any political philosophy map.

#253 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-13 04:17 PM | Reply

Can we just make racists like Federalist go away, if only for three weeks at a time?

#255 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 04:44 PM | Reply

"Is universal health care a right or left passion?"

In most countries, it's a universally shared passion.
I would say only extreme right-wingers don't favor universal health care.
And then, only in America.

#256 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 04:45 PM | Reply

--Can we just make racists like Federalist go away, if only for three weeks at a time?

Typical SJW, always wanting to censor contrary opinions.

#257 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-08-13 05:00 PM | Reply

Travon would of capped them all.

With his bag of Skittles?

#258 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-08-13 05:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

S/B "Nazis were influenced by Italian Fascists who were themselves former Socialists"

apologies

#241 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Somebody forgot to tell your boy James Fields and his little club -- as well as the other fascists marching yesterday -- that they're supposed to be lefties, because they don't see if that way. They were supporting a "Unite the Right" event, after all. And isn't that what matters, rather than what you think of their supposed origins?

Fields has been a Nazi admirer since high school. Vanguard America, whose emblem Fields was sporting before running over the actual lefties at the event, uses the term "American fascism" to describe itself. Their website and other materials bash Marxists and other left-wingers, non-whites, and globalists, while their supporters love Donald Trump. The disagreement they have with American conservatives is that they're nowhere near conservative enough.

#259 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-13 05:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Its not as funny if I have to explain it, but it highlights you lack of self-awareness. No wonder you support Republicans.

#251 | POSTED BY BOCAINK

You are one stupid lump of meat.

#260 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 05:41 PM | Reply

I would say only extreme right-wingers don't favor universal health care.
And then, only in America.
#256 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

So the Nazis had universal health care, yes?

How does that make them right wing? With all respect.

PS. I typed slowly for Bocaink's sake but can you explain it to him?

#261 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 05:47 PM | Reply

Yawn,

Yawn.

#262 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 05:50 PM | Reply

"I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun, the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx.

Adolf Hitler

www.independent.co.uk

#263 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 05:59 PM | Reply

Yawn, all you want, lump you've refuted nothing.

You whole schtick is hollow?

#264 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 06:01 PM | Reply

I'm not aware of anyone that isn't on the far right who feels the need to argue over the essentially meaningless point of whether the Nazis were right or left.

The problem with the Nazis wasn't that they were right or left, it's that they were Nazis.

That they systematically divided society to the point of murdering millions of people they viewed as subhuman is generally considered to be the most glaring flaw in the ideology. [...]

#265 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

And isn't that what matters, rather than what you think of their supposed origins?

#259 | POSTED BY CBOB

Truthfully, I don't know. Personally I thought they were vile and cartoonish like Bocaink but now there is a body count.

#266 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-13 06:06 PM | Reply

Wow, the ignorance.

National Socialists were formed in response (in part) over the fear of democratic liberalism as incorporated in the Weimar Republic. They were in direct opposition to the Social Democrats (what we envision as leftists in today's vernacular). The SD support came from liberal, progressive (at the time) values in democracy, trade unions and secularization. They were flanked on the left by Communists and on the right by several conservative parties. National Socialists arose through denouncing the Versailles Treaty, the forces that they viewed as the backstabbers of 1918 (who they viewed as leftist revolutionaries), Jews and Marxists (Communists and Soc. Democrats). Since the Weimar Republic was a weak democracy, the forces aligned against it were revolutionary (conservative primarily, though communists were also revolting against democracy).

Nazism evolved into a Nationalistic cause behind the leader principal. Rohm represented the Storm Abteilung (SA) who were street fighters and for ongoing revolution. They felt that the Nazi's win in 1933 was just another step in the revolution. The next step (since they had defeated democratic-i.e. center left politics) and established a one party state, was to eliminate all conservative and remnant liberal entities. Hitler denounced and defeated the Rohm faction solidifying his hold on the party becoming the soul and undisputed leader of the party.

Nazism was racist, nationalistic, authoritarian, militant and expansionistic. Anything beyond the most simple world view as espoused by Hitler was purely tactical in nature. During different times of Nazi power they used capitalism, corporatism and socialism to forward their agenda. For example, Hitler had and implemented a variety of schemes over taking over large estates, primarily he kept it as Jewish owned properties being Aryanized.

Nazism did incorporate many reactionary elements that would be tied to conservative values, thus the initial appeal to lower middle class citizens who were threatened by unions and modernity and the appeal to conservative sections of society. Hitler's initial difficulties with the right were not over ideology but that he was an outsider to the monarchist, feudal landed aristocracy of the Prussian class.

Hitler did incorporate many modern elements (at the time) to his policies, i.e. eugenics and a dose of breaking of class barriers. However, in no way would his policies or actions be considered leftist. He was against modern culture, he was against democracy, he was against minorities, he was militaristic. I.e. none of his policies could readily be identified with leftist, liberal thinking.

When the Nazis came to power, there was a leftist party (as we would interpret it today) in Germany. Social Democrats. SD supported unions, workers rights, women's rights, public welfare, unemployment insurance, democracy (i.e. parlitarianism). After communists the Social Democrats were Hitler's primary target. To argue otherwise is simple ignorance.

#271 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-08-13 06:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 9

"To argue otherwise is simple ignorance."

Tonton is a more complex kid of ignorance, as his is not merely a by-product of a simple lack of education.

He knows the things you said om #271 are true, but he won't admit them in public, and until someone comes along to authoritatively lay down the facts like you did, he continues the charade with whatever willing participants he can find.

I think the appropriate term is agent provocateur. He acts like a normal person and insinuates himself into normal society but then when nobody's looking he reveals his true intentions.

And when you're a star, you can get away with it.

And that is who these guys are.

#272 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"You oh so tolerant liberals. People are entitled to their opinion, even if you don't like it."

how dare liberals not tolerate people who want subjugate all other races - clayton boazby

#273 | Posted by klifferd at 2017-08-13 08:08 PM | Reply

"The macoutes would have been out marching with the torch bearing -----------.
#199 | POSTED BY DANNI

Doubtful, the Macoutes are descendants of former black African slaves"

And here I always figured "The Tonton Macoute (Haitian Creole: Tonton Makout)[1][2][3] or simply as the Macoute[4][5] was a special operations unit within the Haitian paramilitary force created in 1959 by dictator François "Papa Doc" Duvalier." en.wikipedia.org

#274 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 08:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Good luck with obliterating musty old Conferderate memorabilia, at least on public lands, but everywhere else you are picking at scabs, creating a body count and resembling the book burning Nazis you say you oppose."

What scabs are those?
I keep hearing slavery ended over 150 years ago so blacks really ought to be donig better by now.
So, what scabs are you referring to?

#275 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 08:52 PM | Reply

"Good luck with obliterating musty old Conferderate memorabilia, at least on public lands, but everywhere else you are picking at scabs, creating a body count and resembling the book burning Nazis you say you oppose."

I heard that the statue taken down in C-ville is going to a museum. Good place for it. I also heard that the mayor of Lexington, KY announced today that all Confederate statutes in that city will be taken down. It's a start.

#276 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 09:12 PM | Reply

I heard that the statue taken down in C-ville is going to a museum. Good place for it. I also heard that the mayor of Lexington, KY announced today that all Confederate statutes in that city will be taken down. It's a start.

Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 09:12 PM | Reply

Erasing history lovely.

/Snark

#277 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-13 09:15 PM | Reply

Posted by tontonmacoute

Junior needs a timeout.

#278 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-08-13 09:30 PM | Reply

"Erasing history lovely.
/Snark"

What's up with these people? They lost the Civil War, but they still want participation statues/trophies of their heroes all across the South. I thought that was something that they only accused weak-minded SJWs and liberals of doing?

#279 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 09:44 PM | Reply

What's up with these people? They lost the Civil War, but they still want participation statues/trophies of their heroes all across the South. I thought that was something that they only accused weak-minded SJWs and liberals of doing?

Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 09:44 PM | Reply

Not all of Americas history is lovey dovey. Some of it is down right horrific. ALL our history needs to be told. The confederacy is one part of our history. Rightly or wrongly it needs to be told not hidden away.

#280 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-13 09:47 PM | Reply

Hidden away, no. Definitely not. The story of the Confederacy needs to be told in museums and on battlefields. That's where those statues belong.

#281 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-08-13 09:53 PM | Reply

"Not all of Americas history is lovey dovey."

So you'd be okay with a statue of Osama bin Laden or Sirhan Sirhan?

Seems like you're deliberately avoiding the issue of what it means when we put up a statue to a person.

#282 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 10:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Not all of Americas history is lovey dovey. Some of it is down right horrific. ALL our history needs to be told. The confederacy is one part of our history. Rightly or wrongly it needs to be told not hidden away.

#280 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-13 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't disagree, but it's important to make a distinction. A public monument like this one implies an endorsement of its subject. A statue in a museum is all that's needed to represent history.

#283 | Posted by cbob at 2017-08-13 10:44 PM | Reply

#269- Well played sir, well played. As for the rest..."Guards! Guards! Cootie got out again, get the taser!"

#284 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-13 10:53 PM | Reply

So you'd be okay with a statue of Osama bin Laden or Sirhan Sirhan?

Seems like you're deliberately avoiding the issue of what it means when we put up a statue to a person.

Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-13 10:06 PM | Reply

False equivalency. Not even in the same ballpark..

#285 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-13 11:22 PM | Reply

Typical SJW, always wanting to censor contrary opinions.

#257 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2017-08-13 05:00 PM | FLAG:

The Nazis were indeed opinionated. They still are when they show their strength in America, under protection of the President.

#286 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 11:34 PM | Reply

False equivalency. Not even in the same ballpark..

#285 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2017-08-13 11:22 PM | FLAG:

I get you thinking it's clever to be contrarian, but you're defending displays of Nazi propaganda. It doesn't matter what it used to be. Now they're carrying Swastikas around the damn thing.

That's not clever, it's willfully ignorant of current effects.

#287 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 11:38 PM | Reply

It should be known that the fantasy land where Robert E. Lee was an honorable, heroic general fighting for American values- and not, as he actually was, a traitor with poor grasp of overall strategic aims- was created to foster exactly the sort of vision we saw play out this weekend in Virginia.

It's worth remembering- these "monuments" to the Confederacy and it's erstwhile heroes were generally put up well after the Civil War ended. The one in Charlottesville was put up 50 years after the end of the war.

The "Lost Cause" is --------- a historical lie perpetrated by historical revisionists to create the illusion that there was justice in the fight- that the Confederacy was on the /noble/ side of history. It is long, long past time that this lie was put to rest, that the instruments of the deception were destroyed, that the truth is out. The Confederacy fought to preserve slavery, and the Union fought to preserve a nation shattered by the mere notion that slavery might end- or, at the least, not be spread further. The entire ideology of the Confederacy was built on the notion of white supremacy.

So when nazis march to preserve symbols of the Confederacy and argue about remembering that history, don't be fooled- they're fighting to preserve a post-hoc lie of nobility that is useful to their own ends. And their ends are not about what is good for the USA, despite their claims of patriotism. White identity isn't about the founding ideologies of the US- it's about white supremacy, the founding ideology of the Confederacy.

And for people who wonder if it's unfair to tag this ---- to Trump? No- it's not. Steve Bannon worked for a media outlet touted as the platform for the "alt-right". The rally in Charlottesville? Was called "Unite the Right". David Duke and others have made it exceedingly clear- Trump is their guy. The coded, couched, and vague language of condemnation from the White House is not the full-throated condemnation of a real leader- it's the weak language of a politician unsure of how far he can go before he pisses off part of his base. Think about it. Trump is literally one of the least filtered politicians in modern history. He goes off on a hair-trigger condemning adepartment stores and journalists with the sort of language that makes you wonder when he's going to try to get them tossed into jail. But on this issue, we get measured, "both sides" language from Trump and his White House.


-fb

#288 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-13 11:55 PM | Reply

288 NW 100-fold!

#289 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-14 12:18 AM | Reply

I get you thinking it's clever to be contrarian, but you're defending displays of Nazi propaganda. It doesn't matter what it used to be. Now they're carrying Swastikas around the damn thing.
That's not clever, it's willfully ignorant of current effects.

POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2017-08-13 11:38 PM | REPLY

Where was Swastikas or NAZI's in the civil war???? Think before you spew something you know nothing about. That wasn't even the subject of Gal's post.

#290 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-14 02:02 AM | Reply

#290 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Laura, do you know when these confederate statutes were put in place and why?

#291 | Posted by memyselfini at 2017-08-14 02:13 AM | Reply

Placing the status in museums does not equal erasing history.

#292 | Posted by memyselfini at 2017-08-14 02:18 AM | Reply

Where was Swastikas or NAZI's in the civil war???? Think before you spew something you know nothing about. That wasn't even the subject of Gal's post.

#290 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2017-08-14 02:02 AM | FLAG:

The people came to the statue carrying those items. Hate and racism carries many flags. They are, in the end, the same thing. This event showed them all uniting.

#293 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-14 08:19 AM | Reply

Okay, that was a HELL of a stag this weekend...

Anything interesting happen while I was drunk?

#294 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-08-14 09:13 AM | Reply | Funny: 4

"Trump Attacks Merck Chief Kenneth Frazier for Quitting Advisory Panel
By GLENN THRUSH
August 14, 2017"

While we're talking about Trump's choice of protecting Neo Nazis.

#295 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-08-14 10:03 AM | Reply

#294

Drudgie Nominee best one-liner.

#296 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-08-14 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Typical SJW, never wanting to get run over by cars.
#257 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

FTFY

#297 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-08-14 01:43 PM | Reply

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