Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 11, 2017

Maximilian Kasy: Mother Jones's Kevin Drum more recently wondered: "Why do Republicans tell such obvious lies?" A common, though apparently ineffective, response to this frustration is to double down by discussing more facts. When arguing about politics, it is often helpful to construct the best possible version of your opponent's reasoning -- a task admittedly not always made easy by the current administration. In this spirit, though, maybe the issue is not conservatives' ignorance of facts, but rather a fundamental difference of values. Taking this point of view seems essential for effective communication across the political divide.

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Much normative (or value-based) reasoning by liberals (and mainstream economists) is about the consequences of political actions for the welfare of individuals. Statements about the desirability of policies are based on trading off the consequences for different individuals. If good outcomes result from a policy without many negative consequences, then the policy is a good one. When Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) remarked on the Affordable Care Act this spring, for example, she said, "I feel strongly that when we're talking about our sick, when we're talking about our poor ... and we're talking about something that would deny those in need with the relief and the help that they need, that they want and deserve, it does put in place a question about our moral values." In other words, if a policy will harm the welfare of individuals in need, it's a bad policy.

Meanwhile, much conservative normative reasoning is about procedures rather than consequences. For example, as long as property rights and free exchange are guaranteed, the outcome is deemed just by definition, regardless of the consequences. People are "deserving" of whatever the market provides them with. For instance, Speaker of the House Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) seemed to center the idea of unfairness in his argument against the Affordable Care Act: "The idea of Obamacare is," he said, "that the people who are healthy pay for the people who are sick."

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It's not hard. I've been doing it my whole life.

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-10 07:56 PM | Reply

Yeah , I've been driving for 45 years and have never filed a claim yet I pay for all you useless f___s. One t hing about health insurance, though I may never crash into you, you are going to get sick and die. Period.

Well I went to the doctor
Cause I was feeling kinda rough.
The doctor said your ----- ------ up
I said my ----- ------ up, I don't know how.
Well the ---- that used to work
It don't work now.
Oh oh my ----- ------ up.
Has to happen to the best of us
And the rich folks suffer like the rest of us.
AND IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.
Warren Zevon

Come on folks, let's take care of each other.

#2 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-10 08:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

This is how I honestly talk to a conservative.

1. At work; "We can't continue this conversation because we both need our jobs."
2. At family event; "Sorry brother but I don't want to ruin your daughter's wedding."
3. Anywhere else; "I can't talk to you because, deep down, I think you are f*****g crazy, just get away from me before I call a cop."

#3 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-10 09:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 10

I listen to conservatives but there isn't any reason to talk.

The only thing I can think to say is " Why do you vote against your self interest? You're not one of them , you're not gonna be one of them, hell you're worse off then me"

#4 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-08-10 09:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Danni,

I gave you a FF for #3.

Very well done. PLEASE - I know you are passionate about politics and this country....don't ever let you despair over political events and world events sap your sense of humor. It's arguably your best trait IMO.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-10 09:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is how I honestly talk to a conservative.

1. At work; "We can't continue this conversation because we both need our jobs."
2. At family event; "Sorry brother but I don't want to ruin your daughter's wedding."
3. Anywhere else; "I can't talk to you because, deep down, I think you are f*****g crazy, just get away from me before I call a cop."

#6 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-10 10:24 PM | Reply

oGay uckfay yourselfyay!

One language the Stooges always understand.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2017-08-10 10:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Jeff, we are on different sides of the ideological debate but I never consider you to be my enemy, we just often disagree. I do not believe you are insincere in your posts which I can't say for many conservative pundits. I'm sure you're a good Dad, trust me, that is really what I care about. And that is why I always respect you. I'm sorry for angry posts but understand, a good Dad, is always a good guy. And I love good guys like that, you included. There are just too few of you.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-10 10:28 PM | Reply

1. At work; "We can't continue this conversation because we both need our jobs."
2. At family event; "Sorry brother but I don't want to ruin your daughter's wedding."
3. Anywhere else; "I can't talk to you because, deep down, I think you are f*****g crazy, just get away from me before I call a cop."

Posted by danni at 2017-08-10 10:24 PM | Reply

When it's family gatherings and things turn political I go out and hunt. It keeps me sane.

#9 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-10 10:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Thank you, Danni.

That was a very nice compliment - made my day. :-)

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-10 11:40 PM | Reply

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You're a good and decent man Jeff, I'm pretty sure everyone who posts here recognizes that fact. We may disagree on politics but we don't disagree on the importance of family and I notice that yours seems to be you focus and I honestly love that. If that were true in all families in America so many of our problems wouldn't exist. In that sense we are alike, my family is the most important thing in my life.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-11 03:37 AM | Reply

Yeah, Jeff is a knob.


But he's OUR knob!

#12 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-08-11 08:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 7 | Newsworthy 1

Pointing to the issue of abortion, Conservatives often think they hold the moral high ground. If you believe in a soul, an afterlife, devils, angels and God, I suppose there is some consistency even though its all bunk.

But any discussion with a Conservative leader or follower must certainly take a different approach, since most leaders are well aware of the consequences to their policies but only care about themselves, whereas their loyal followers haven't a clue.

Everyone wants prosperity. It will be interesting to see if Trump pulls off the infrastructure spending consistently denied to Obama. Everyone should know it was Government spending and regulations that pulled the country out of the great depression. Whether that spending was on war or improved social policy hardly matters, though this is often a point of disagreement.

Economics is a complex immature field whose truths are distorted by competing economic interests. Thatcher took the lead in this and Reagan rode along. You'd think most people would understand by now, their neo-liberal philosophy has been disastrous. Instead most conservatives will argue their changes were not done completely or well enough.

#13 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-08-11 09:32 AM | Reply

My sister is slightly to the right of Pat Buchanan. Whenever we talk politics and I start bringing up things like facts, evidence, and consquences. she ends the conversation with her favorite line. "I just don't believe that"

You can't have a discussion if one person has suspended belief in basic facts and considers them opinions that can be dismissed.

#14 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-08-11 09:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#14

www.facebook.com

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-08-11 09:55 AM | Reply

Everyone should know it was Government spending and regulations that pulled the country out of the great depression.
#13 | Posted by bayviking

What everyone should know and what everyone does know are sometimes two very different things. We seem to live in an age where some people only believe what fits their preconceived notions. Anything else is "fake news." Pols love this. "Vote for me and I'll repeal arithmetic! I can cut taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget!" Climate change provides lots of examples too. Sigh.

#16 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2017-08-11 09:57 AM | Reply


The issue here is that today's Conservatives bear little resemblance to the Conservatives of a three or four decades ago.

The Conservative name appears to have been hijacked and now seems to apply more towards the Alt-Right movement.

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-08-11 10:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The issue here is that today's Conservatives bear little resemblance to the Conservatives of a three or four decades ago. "

Thanks to the radio and TV being completely overwhelmed with right wing propaganda. Goebels may have been evil but he wasn't stupid.

#18 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-11 10:38 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

One thing that needs to be said though, you right wingers, you have been played. You listen to the right wing lies and you believe them because you have been conditioned to do so. None of you are really capable of real thought. If you want to disagree then don't listen to the right wing crap for 3 months and find out what you actually think. But you won't, because lazy minds prefer to have their opinions handed to them instead of developing themselves. I won't say all of you are stupid, but I will say all of you are intellectually lazy.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-11 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The problem with arguing with conservatives is that they have an answer for every question. And when they don't, Covevfe bitches!!

#20 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-08-11 10:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You listen to the right wing lies and you believe them because you have been conditioned to do so. None of you are really capable of real thought. - #19 | Posted by Danni at 2017-08-11 10:42 AM
What evidence do you have to make a statement like that, Danni? My primary news source is NPR & BBC on the radio, and pretty much anything I can get my hands on (including the links posted here) on the internet. Fark and Drudge Retort are my main sources for articles, but I often (so frequently that I can almost say always) review the citations and source materials that the authors of those articles use to generate their 'reporting'. You do yourself and the rest of us a disservice when you allow your bias against conservatism to mal-form your opinions on conservatives.

#21 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-08-11 11:00 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You can't have a discussion if one person has suspended belief in basic facts and considers them opinions that can be dismissed.

Don't Ban me RCADE! This comment has relevance to the discussion:

Until liberals come to the conclusion that a biological man cannot be a woman, don't talk to me about facts.

#22 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-11 11:10 AM | Reply

And let me clarify

I only say #22 because:

I do realize that there is a little science to the weather. I will never believe man is big enough to affect climate. I believe that the earth would be warming during this time whether or not man was here.

That being said, I do understand like the aerosol spray thing and the ozone. we stop doing it, I guess the ozone got better..ok

So, if as a liberal you tell me that me not believing in global climate change is ignoring that 1+1=2, isn't you telling me that a man dressing up as a woman and demanding everyone else call him a woman 1+1=5?

Isnt it the same thing?

#23 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-11 11:16 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#23 - Not the same thing. Nobody is making the argument that a man dressing up as a women is actually a women (biologically and scientifically speaking ). But if that person wants to identify as a women why should I, or you for that matter care?

You are conflating social disagreements with scientific data and they are not the same. The data indicates the the climate is changing and that human action is affecting it.

#24 | Posted by schmanch at 2017-08-11 11:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

One thing that needs to be said though, you right wingers, you have been played.

Says the woman that used to sniff Chavez's farts and call them perfume. Please shut up about being played, ok?

#25 | Posted by cookfish at 2017-08-11 11:34 AM | Reply

Nobody is making the argument that a man dressing up as a women is actually a women (biologically and scientifically speaking )

There are many here that do make that argument.

But if that person wants to identify as a women why should I, or you for that matter care?

Because they start demanding special treatment to MAKE me accept their lifestyle.

The data indicates the the climate is changing and that human action is affecting it.

It doesnt and I don't agree..

#26 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-11 11:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Pointing to the issue of abortion, Conservatives often think they hold the moral high ground.
#13 | POSTED BY BAYVIKING

Even if there is a heaven and hell, they still don't have the moral high ground because they vote for legislation that increases the number of abortions performed.

Until liberals come to the conclusion that a biological man cannot be a woman, don't talk to me about facts.
#22 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Why claim to be willing to appeal to science then make a scientifically untrue statement like that? There are actual transsexuals, even ignoring the nuance between the definitions of sex and gender; there are still humans with XXY or YYX chromosomes.

The data indicates the the climate is changing and that human action is affecting it.
It doesnt and I don't agree..
#26 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Science doesn't care if you agree. Hell, post-industry soot covering the snow pact alone has likely had an affect on warming the globe. Just because you don't understand the math and science doesn't make your "opinion" that climate change isn't happening valid.

Lack of understanding seems to be a common theme among conservatives and is probably the primary reason they were so against Obama -- they simply were incapable of understanding him. They don't like to be made to feel stupid.

#27 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-11 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I'm so glad an author tried to do this by using logic; it just shows how bad Liberals are at using logic which is my biggest pet peeve (as you can tell by my comments). It's almost astonishing how bad he is at truly understanding what a "fact" is, which is why Liberals think they know facts but in reality are just as ignorant about them as Cons. Here is proof:

"A liberal might invoke various empirical facts: Bequests are very unequally distributed (more so than income or even wealth), bequests primarily benefit those who are already rich, the intergenerational correlation of economic status is very high in the United States and partly driven by bequests, the responsiveness of savings to changes in the bequest tax rate is low, etc."

1. Bequests are very unequally distributed. "Unequally" is an opinion. Different sides have different viewpoints of what an equal share should be. This is not fact.
2. "Benefit those who are already rich". Really? So everyone who gets an inheritance of any kind is not being benefited unless they are rich? That's not true...thus, not a fact. Also, what do you mean by "benefit"? If a rich person gets $100, is that really benefiting them? If not, what's the number that is considered a benefit to a rich person? A dollar is not benefiting someone who has a billion, but someone living on the streets it benefits tremendously. No matter how you look at this statement, it's an opinion.
3. "the intergenerational correlation of economic status is very high in the United States and partly driven by bequests". Finally, something that can be proven by numbers and doesn't require the reader to have an opinion about the topic.
4. "the responsiveness of savings to changes in the bequest tax rate is low". This is probably the worst offender. You use a word like low in a relational context and somehow can still continue writing without realizing how terribly inadequate you are at knowing what a fact is. It's not low if you consider non-investment accounts. And what is low? Is there a measuring scale that isn't created by other people and founded on nonassumptive reasoning? Nope. Low is an opinion in this context. Thus, not a fact.

I'm not saying there isn't some truth to the article. But for the love of God PLEASE don't think to yourself "Well, I'm a Liberal so this article is 100% correct". Critically think about what you are reading. If both sides can understand how to truly differentiate fact from opinion, both parties would be able to talk to each other much more constructively than they do today. In fact, this article is actually just more proof of why there is such a disparity.

#28 | Posted by humtake at 2017-08-11 12:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

#28: "If both sides can understand how to truly differentiate fact from opinion, both parties would be able to talk to each other much more constructively than they do today."

The problem is that conservatives reject facts in favor of opinions on a much more massive scale. It is a fringe problem on the left, sure, but it permeates every level from ideals to policy-making on the right.

Every wonder why no liberal ever complains about "conservative facts"(I don't think I've ever heard the phrase) while "liberal facts" is a common phrase of dismissal for conservatives?

#29 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-11 12:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#28 | Posted by humtake at 2017-08-11 12:32 PM
Can't NW strongly enough. Thanks

#30 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-08-11 01:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#26 BOAZ,

You don't understand sexual identity. A person may present himself as either gender. The only "problem" seems to be in restrooms. A woman presenting as a man, without surgery, uses a stall in the men's restroom. A man presenting as a woman, with or without surgery, uses a stall in the women's restroom. How many transgenders of either sex do you know or have you met? The answer is you don't know.

On climate change, the science is never settled; we're still learning. But if you own property in South Florida or anywhere on the U.S. coasts, you might want to consider unloading it soon. The first obvious effects of climate change are already happening. We are enjoying stronger and more frequent storms. Hurricane season this year is already happening in Mexico.

Seriously, I do not believe you believe anything you say, and that you're just messing with us.

#31 | Posted by john47 at 2017-08-11 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Re#3

Too complicated.

This is how I argue with them now:

🖕

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 02:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-- But if you own property in South Florida or anywhere on the U.S. coasts, you might want to consider unloading it soon.

We could ban further construction right now in at-risk areas. Impose a tax on at-risk areas for climate damage repair costs. Guess who would oppose that? Beachfront homeowners, many of whom are progressives and big Democrat donors.

#33 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-08-11 03:04 PM | Reply

How many transgenders of either sex do you know or have you met?

Many. One of my friends is Transgender MTF. We grew up together. We played football together on the streets of Winston Salem. Now he wears a dress. Still doesn't change the fact he's a man. To me, he's a man playing dress up, acting like a woman.

Seriously, I do not believe you believe anything you say, and that you're just messing with us.

I'm probably the most realist person on this blog.

A person may present himself as either gender.

Sure, what do the FACTS say? They say they are what they are at birth. All they have to do is look between their legs. And don't give me that "There's people who are both" BS. That population is so miniscule as to defy keeping records, an actual unicorn.

To be honest, I don't care what anyone calls themselves. I don't care. But don't try to get me to accept the fantasy. I wont. Because it's not true..

You don't understand sexual identity.

Of course I do. Do you know the difference between sexual identity and gender identity?

#34 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-11 04:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"All they have to do is look between their legs."

Google image search "intersex" and tell me if they are men or women.

I'll wait for you to finish vomiting after looking at the pictures for you to post your response.

Just keeping it real, yo!

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-11 04:16 PM | Reply

Google image search "intersex" and tell me if they are men or women.

Like I said Snoofy, not what I'm talking about..

#36 | Posted by boaz at 2017-08-11 04:22 PM | Reply

Boaz you have serious issues. You need therapy STAT.

#37 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-11 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Like I said Snoofy, not what I'm talking about.."

Its exactly what youre talking about.

Literally, you propose visual inspection of genilalia phenotype to assign a genotype.

Which is why I asked you to look at the pictures. To demonstrate why your proposed method will not work in all cases.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-11 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

----A person may present himself as either gender.
Sure, what do the FACTS say? They say they are what they are at birth. All they have to do is look between their legs. And don't give me that "There's people who are both" BS. That population is so miniscule as to defy keeping records, an actual unicorn.
#34 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Are you seriously that incapable of understanding the difference between sex and gender?

Should be the simplest thing in the world, yet conservatives can't figure it out. Like the debt and the deficit; they think sex and gender are the same. Sad! Not to mention many cultures around the world have (and have had loooong before the US was a country) 3rd gender roles. But you're a conservative; I wouldn't expect you know history.

#39 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-11 04:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Different sides have different viewpoints of what an equal share should be."

Yeah but only one of those viewpoints is right.

If I tell you I've divided ten dollars into two equal groups, one with eight dollars and one with two dollars, apparently you're so confused about what "equal" means that you'd just call what I did a "different viewpoint."

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-11 06:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"Sure, what do the FACTS say? They say they are what they are at birth. All they have to do is look between their legs."

This is why I don't "argue" with conservatives. They are freakin clueless.

This one speaks of FACTS but has no idea how often gender assignment is wrong.

And has no clue of the consequences of an incorrect gender assignment.

#41 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 07:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Sure, what do the FACTS say? They say they are what they are at birth. All they have to do is look between their legs."

This is why I don't "argue" with conservatives. They are freakin clueless.

This one speaks of FACTS but has no idea how often gender assignment is wrong.

And has no clue of the consequences of an incorrect gender assignment.

#41 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did you ever notice he talks about transgender people more than I do???? Me thinks he has closeted desires.

#42 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-08-11 07:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Yup.

Me thinks he doth protest too much.

#43 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 07:26 PM | Reply

"This is why I don't "argue" with conservatives. They are freakin clueless."

Yeah I'm not even arguing with Boaz.

I'm merely telling him things he doesn't know.

He obviously doesn't know what intersex is, or he wouldn't have said you can determine gender from phenotype alone.

Yes Boaz intersex is rare but the fact that it exists sort of proves you wrong.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-08-11 07:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Conservatives deal in facts, Liberals deal in feelings

#45 | Posted by Maverick at 2017-08-11 07:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Conservatives deal in facts, Liberals deal in feelings

#45 | Posted by Maverick

Yup

I have a feeling that you are an idiot.

And that's a FACT!

#46 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 07:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

donnerboy

nice comeback

#47 | Posted by Maverick at 2017-08-11 07:46 PM | Reply

😎

#48 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 07:51 PM | Reply

Conservatives deal in facts, Liberals deal in feelings

#45 | POSTED BY MAVERICK AT 2017-08-11 07:41 PM

Time for Newt. Representing Conservatives perfectly.

youtu.be

#49 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-11 08:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I have a feeling that you are an idiot.

And that's a FACT!

#46 | Posted by donnerboy
So now your a psychologist too?

#50 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-08-11 08:30 PM | Reply

#46 | Posted by donnerboy
So now your a psychologist too?

#50 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

So now I need to be a psychologist to know how I feel?

#51 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-11 08:50 PM | Reply

#51 | Posted by donnerboy
How "you feel" is different than " a fact"!

#52 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-08-11 09:09 PM | Reply

Really different!!!

#53 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-08-11 09:10 PM | Reply

"Why do Republicans tell such obvious lies?" A

funniest line and biggest load I've read in some time....from people who supported obama....

who KNOWINGLY ( J. Gruber ) LIED I( keep your plan and dr ) at every turn on obamacare.....

pathetic.

#54 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-08-11 10:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

from people who supported obama....

At least President Obama never said he'd be too busy working at the White House to play golf.

#55 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-08-11 10:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You can't argue with conservatives.

Arguing suggests a willingness to listen.

All you can do is talk past them and walk away before punching them in their dead eyed, open mouthed fat face.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2017-08-12 02:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

There are several very important things to remember when arguing with a conservative.

1. While conservatives and moderates may believe that there are facts to support both sides of an honest discussion, liberals know that the only real facts are the ones that they know. It's crucial, then, when confronted with an argument using data or research that seems to contradict our point of view, to dismiss it as "alt-right propaganda." Be well-practiced in using this term. "I can't talk to someone who is such a tool of alt-right propaganda." "I don't listen to alt-right propaganda." "You shouldn't introduce alt-right propaganda to this discussion."

2. Most conservatives are merely stupid. A handful are stupid AND evil. It's difficult to know at first what kind you're dealing with. But because they are stupid, they don't know what their best interests are. Liberals know that the only reason a person could possibly be conservative or vote for fellow conservatives is that we, and not they, know what is best for them. So stupid conservatives are to be educated and belittled, if need be, as you would an insolent child or disobedient dog, so they can see that we really want what's best for them.

3. Liberals are on the right side of history. Nobody said that more often or better than Barack Obama, The Greatest Man In The History Of The Whole World, who said all the time that his opponents are on the wrong side of history. Soon, everyone will think and act exactly alike, so it won't be necessary to be saying that anymore. But until then, we need to remind conservatives that nothing they believe or know will be true in a few years' time.

4. Social media and blog sites are a terrific way to get our message out. Unfortunately, some conservatives have also figured out how to use them. They must be silenced, so that these sites can be returned to the echo chambers they were designed to be. Sites like Disqus, Reddit, Drudgeretort, and Quora make this simple: you can downvote or flag posts that you disagree with. Fortunately most moderators of those sites are also liberals like ourselves, and will remove posters who receive a lot of downvotes or have even their innocuous posts voted "offensive". After all, if one person took the time to click the "offensive" button, there are probably thousands who probably would have but were so triggered they couldn't operate their mouse.

5. Being a liberal means never having to explain yourself at all. A conservative (stupid, remember) might wonder why a middle-class woman executive is considered a victim more so than a man who just lost his job in Ohio, but a woman who identifies as a man is accorded a higher social status than anyone. Or why a guy in an all-white religious sect in Utah with a 16-year-old wife is a scumbag, but the imam in Pakistan with four such wives should be fast-tracked to US citizenship. You need not explain the reasons why obvious things are obvious. Dismiss his question as something from alt-right propaganda and move on.

6. If all else fails. do what JPW does. Talk past them, walk away, or punch them in the face. In the future when liberals enjoy political power, we will again do legally what socialist regimes the world over did in the 20th century, to purge the world of conservatives. Until then, unfortunately, we may have to suffer them for a little longer.

#57 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 02:44 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

#56

C'mon, dude. Extremism isn't your MO.

#58 | Posted by et_al at 2017-08-12 02:55 AM | Reply

#57 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

What a waste of your time.

#59 | Posted by memyselfini at 2017-08-12 02:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I did it months ago. Just copied and pasted, and added 6.

#60 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2017-08-12 03:01 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#60 | POSTED BY WHITEDEVIL

The most amazing part is that you actually believe you aren't being totally manipulated and used by the GOP. It is comical that you talk about facts as a conservative as if they support any one of your platform ideals. There is a reason 99% of humans on the earth side with American liberals and laugh at American conservatives. And that reason isn't some liberal conspiracy, despite what FOX tells you.

#61 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-08-12 03:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

C'mon, dude. Extremism isn't your MO.

#58 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Nope, but I do love me some hyperbole once in a while.

#62 | Posted by jpw at 2017-08-12 03:39 AM | Reply

6. If all else fails. do what JPW does. Talk past them, walk away, or punch them in the face. In the future when liberals enjoy political power, we will again do legally what socialist regimes the world over did in the 20th century, to purge the world of conservatives. Until then, unfortunately, we may have to suffer them for a little longer.

LOL I guess China is a bad place to be when that shoe falls, eh?

Seriously, though. Can you at least admit that roughly 30% of each political extreme is unreachable and that the action really exists in the middle 40% or less of the electorate? Probably less when you narrow it down to likely voters.

#63 | Posted by jpw at 2017-08-12 03:42 AM | Reply

"6. If all else fails. do what JPW does. Talk past them, walk away, or punch them in the face. In the future when liberals enjoy political power, we will again do legally what socialist regimes the world over did in the 20th century, to purge the world of conservatives. Until then, unfortunately, we may have to suffer them for a little longer."

But liberals have been in charge and instead we defended your right to disagree with us. You're full of crap.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-12 06:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The best way to argue with a conservative is on a leftist web site such as this where
you simply have the owner of said site acting as the "Deus Ex Machina" watching your back
and deleting or obscuring the dreaded conservatives' points.

#65 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-08-12 07:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#57 I was torn between funny and newsworthy. I went with newsworthy.

#66 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-08-12 10:27 AM | Reply

"Or why a guy in an all-white religious sect in Utah with a 16-year-old wife is a scumbag, but the imam in Pakistan with four such wives should be fast-tracked to US citizenship."

First thing you have to do when arguing with a conservative is to identify the obvious lies in their stream of b.s. They regularly make us nonsense and expect us to accept it as fact. So remove all of the lies and distortion and then realize they don't really have anything to say.

#67 | Posted by danni at 2017-08-12 12:21 PM | Reply

#51 | Posted by donnerboy
How "you feel" is different than " a fact"!

#52 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

Only I can tell you how I feel.

That is a fact.

#68 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 12:24 PM | Reply

It is also a fact that I have feelings. I never said that feelings are the same as facts. But just like you, my feelings are usually based on what I perceive to be a fact. And that is where we should be keeping our focus The facts. When we live in a world of so-called "alternate facts" it is natural that we will have different feelings based upon which facts we perceive to be real. And then we end up fighting over our feelings and emotions. When we do that we are in the swamp. And nothing gets done but more divisiveness.

Sound familiar yet?

So here we are. In a completely divided nation. We have been successfully divided. And we have forgotten what Lincoln so wisely said about that. And based on what I am seeing we have been divided on purpose and for a purpose by a hostile power intent on dividing us for their own reasons. Not ours.

Our technology is being us against us and now we are so busy fighting amongst ourselves we can't even see who the true enemy was that attacked us.

Our enemies have won this round. And it will take us a long time to work through this and to come out the other side stronger and more United than ever.

Either that or we will destroy ourselves and leave a path of destruction in our wake.

It is up to us.

Russia may have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams but their is only one power on this planet that can truly take us down.

And we have met that power.

And it is us.

#69 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 12:41 PM | Reply

their = there

#70 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 12:43 PM | Reply

Pogo lives!

#71 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-08-12 01:05 PM | Reply

#68 | Posted by donnerboy
So if you don't like ketchup no one likes ketchup and that is a fact?

#72 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-08-12 02:07 PM | Reply

boaz, "You can't have a discussion if one person has suspended belief in basic facts and considers them opinions that can be dismissed."

yes you are correct the earth goes through cycles. unfortunately man is accelerating those cycles. to say it would happen anyway is simplistic and sophomoric.

or better put sophomoronic.

#73 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 02:50 PM | Reply

I'm probably the most realist person on this blog. boaz

this really did make me laugh out loud.

boaz made a funny!

#74 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 02:54 PM | Reply

Arguing with a conservative is hard when you make ---- up and lie. But then when you've raised children, it really isn't tough to recognize it's the same thing.

#75 | Posted by wisgod at 2017-08-12 04:34 PM | Reply

#68 | Posted by donnerboy
So if you don't like ketchup no one likes ketchup and that is a fact?

#72 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

No ...if I don't like ketchup all I know is I don't like ketchup.

But I like ketchup. The fact that I may or may not like ketchup has nothing to with anything. I am not going to make you eat ketchup just because I do. So what is it you are trying to say? What is ketchup in this analogy?

I say.. I say spit it out man.

#76 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-08-12 04:53 PM | Reply

Arguing with a conservative is hard when you make ---- up and lie. But then when you've raised children, it really isn't tough to recognize it's the same thing.

#75 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT 2017-08-12 04:34 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

precisely wizz, conservatives are children. you're starting to come around!

#77 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-08-12 05:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

When arguing/discussing any topic with anyone, first you must agree on the facts. If you can't agree on the facts, end the discussion and walk away.

If you agree on the facts, it okay to draw different conclusions based on those facts. However, those conclusions must have some logic behind them. Try this technique for understanding the reason someone supports that conclusion.


  • 1. Explore that logic; one step at a time discussing what is right or wrong with that point of logic.

  • 2. Get agreement at the end of each step as to whether the point of logic was proven, disproven or ambigious.

  • 3. Keep notes of the conversation (written if possible).

  • 4. After all points of logic supporting a conclusion have been explored, review them and summarize the result.

  • 5. After the review, hopefully it will be obvious as to whether or not the conclusions are supported by logic.


I would like to see political debates follow such a rigorous process for understanding why politicians support the policy positions that they do. However, it is unlikely that they would subject themselves to such a process because they have a hidden agenda i.e. to do the bidding of the people that support their campaigns. Perhaps CSpan could explore such a format?

#78 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2017-08-13 06:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

oGay uckfay yourselfyay!

One language the Stooges always understand.

#7 Corky,

You are correct sir. As an alleged ----------------, you should be proud!

www.wordplays.com

#79 | Posted by john47 at 2017-08-13 09:43 AM | Reply

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