Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, July 14, 2017

As recently as 10 years ago, humans were thought to be the only species with the ability to plan. Recent studies on great apes showed the ability is not uniquely human. Now, scientists in Sweden have come to the surprising conclusion that ravens can also deliberately prepare for future events. "It is conservative to conclude that ravens perform similarly to great apes and young children," the researchers write. However, monkeys have failed similar experiments. Kabadayi and co-author Mathias Osvath set up a series of experiments to see if five ravens could flexibly plan during tasks that they don't do in the wild: using tools and bartering. These are similar to studies done on great apes. Their findings were published Thursday in the journal Science.




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One version of the experiment had a delay of 15 minutes between selecting an object and being presented with the reward box, and the ravens succeeded 86 percent of the time. The second extended that period to 17 hours, and the success rate was even higher, at 88 percent. ...

The researchers found that the birds would tend to opt out of immediate food rewards because of the promise of larger, tastier treats later.

They were more likely to be willing to endure delayed gratification when they had to wait only a few seconds, rather than minutes for the larger treat, which is also a key component of human decision-making. "We basically found that the further ahead in the future a reward for ravens, the less value it gets," says Kabadayi.

It's safe to say that ravens and mammals have not inherited planning skills through a common ancestor, says Kabadayi. They last shared an ancestor about 320 million years ago.


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Trump needs to mimic them.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-14 02:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Trump needs to mimic them

You need to mimic some one who understands the word "topical".

#2 | Posted by cookfish at 2017-07-14 02:56 PM | Reply

Quoth the raven, "How about a week from Thursday?"

#3 | Posted by cbob at 2017-07-14 03:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

"Ravens Can Plan for Future Events"

Agreed. That is why they traded up for Joey Flacco-- the only QB taken in the 1st round of the NFL draft over the past decade that has actually won a Super Bowl.

#4 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-07-14 03:19 PM | Reply


Aw, did it's poor-planning POTUS get ripped again? Too bad.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-14 03:24 PM | Reply

Trump IS a birdbrain, but he's more a mud hen than a raven. Admit it, he lives in the moment.

#6 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-07-14 04:08 PM | Reply

Ravens and crows are definitely smart birds and seeing something like this really brings it more into focus. If you have ever watched the level of cooperation they have it says a lot.

#7 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-07-15 11:49 AM | Reply

The Trump comments while entertaining, lack any contemplation or self-reflection about what is being hypothesized.

You appear to be more Bird Brained than Trump, and a raven to be certain.

There is a psychological model of the brain function, that brain structures all have the "will to power", the ability to build a model of the world and test them internally is one level of intelligence. That is what is happening during the experiment, the Raven is comparing models and choosing one it believes will have the most benefit with regards to its "will to power".

The real progress is the ability to build models upon models, along side other models and values, with long temporal goals that require multiple tasks. This is what the human brain has achieved.

The fact that Ravens can "coordinate" implies they have a socialized culture, and are taught some of it, and some of it is genetic, and contains a model of cooperative behavior among similar species.

I studied Convolutional Neural Networks in College for a couple of classes, one thing that bothered me about them is they were built and couldn't learn after being trained. As I have begun studying psychology I believe emotions (sadness, anger, learning, fear) are used to destroy value/models structure, defend models, expand models, worry about unknown models, each changing the CNN in our brain. This concept leads to many interesting ideas, and explains alot of data.

We aren't to far from understanding how to make the CNN adaptive, then lookout .....

Complex Adaptive Systems .....

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-07-15 12:16 PM | Reply

"That is what is happening during the experiment, the Raven is comparing models and choosing one it believes will have the most benefit with regards to its "will to power"."

Nietzschean ravens?

#9 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-15 03:08 PM | Reply

He who fights with ravens should be careful lest he thereby become a raven. And if thou gaze long into The Mackris, The Mackris will also gaze into thee.

--Friedrich Nietzsche, high as a ------- kite

#10 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-07-15 03:56 PM | Reply

"What is joy? The feeling that altitude is increasing, that wind resistance is being overcome!"

#11 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-15 05:03 PM | Reply

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