Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, July 10, 2017

A Pew poll released Monday shows that Republicans' views of higher education institutions have taken a dramatic turn for the worse since 2015. In September 2015, 54 percent of Republicans told Pew that they had a positive stance on college and universities, while 37 percent felt negatively toward them. Today, their attitude seems to have taken a complete U-turn, with 58 percent of Republicans saying that colleges and universities had a "negative effect on the way things are going in the country." Only 36 percent maintained that they're good for the country.

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"Viewers of right-leaning news media might not be surprised by Pew's findings. Virtually every day Fox News, Breitbart and other conservative outlets run critical articles about free speech disputes on college campuses, typically with coverage focused on the perceived liberal orthodoxy and political correctness in higher education."

The less educated one is, the more one is likely to vote Republican.... which is why the Dept of Education is always a target of theirs.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-10 07:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

Mind boggling. When you decide you're against higher education you're kind of nuts whether you know it or not. The study explains much.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-10 07:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 9

#MAGA

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-10 07:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Two years ago, 54 percent of Republicans said colleges had a positive impact on the country's direction, with 37 percent rating higher education negatively. That ratio shifted to 43 percent positive and 45 percent negative last year.

Not surprising. A perfectly rational response to a flood of stories about SJW riots, suppression of free speech, turning the campuses into indoctrination camps, etc. In that same 2 years Mizzou's enrollment has plummeted.

"It was a moment of triumph for the protesting students. But it has been a disaster for the university.

Freshman enrollment at the Columbia campus, the system's flagship, has fallen by more than 35 percent in the two years since.

The university administration acknowledges that the main reason is a backlash from the events of 2015, as the campus has been shunned by students and families put off by, depending on their viewpoint, a culture of racism or one where protesters run amok."

www.nytimes.com

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-10 07:33 PM | Reply

"A perfectly rational response to a flood of stories about SJW riots"

Nulli, are you saying two years ago you had a positive view of higher education, but after two years of news stories that tend to only be in heavy rotation on the right, you changed your mind?

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-10 07:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Jesus farking christ...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE F@$K NUTS???

#6 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-07-10 07:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Conservatives are so disgusted that liberal, trans, vegan, minorities operate freely on campuses that they have washed their hands of the entire concept of obtaining a higher education.

Snowflake Nation.

I suspect men in the Muslim world have similar opinions about Muslim women obtaining higher education.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-10 07:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The reason Republicans are turning against higher education--and public education in general--is because the GOP and conservative media have been bashing both for years, accusing them of being too liberal and of indoctrinating their kids with secular ideas instead of teaching them creationism and other Biblically determined "facts" like the world is only 6000 years old and homosexuality is a sin.

#8 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-10 07:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

--indoctrinating their kids with secular ideas instead of teaching them creationism and other Biblically determined "facts" like the world is only 6000 years old and homosexuality is a sin.

What a steaming pile. People correctly perceive that the universities, especially the social sciences and humanities, have been taken over by post-modernist neo-marxist BS which despises Western Civilization. The Western Canon has been replaced by SJW mediocrities. Shakespeare was replaced by some nobody named Lourdes, whose only qualification was being a black, feminist lesbian.

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-10 08:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Freakin' snowflakes in law school of all places.

University Rips Law Prof over Brazilian Wax Exam Question

#10 | Posted by et_al at 2017-07-10 08:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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"People correctly perceive that the universities, especially the social sciences and humanities, have been taken over by post-modernist neo-marxist BS"

And since you can't refute the "BS" your advice to kids is don't get a higher education, is that correct?

Doesn't that seem just a little bit extreme? Why not simply advise kids to do a STEM major?

Stay in school, kids!

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-10 08:28 PM | Reply

"Based on income levels, Republicans are less positive about higher education the more money they make. Just 31 percent of those who earn at least $75,000 a year in family income view colleges positively, compared to 34 percent in the $30,000 to $74,999 range. And 46 percent of Republicans making less than $30,000 gave higher education positive marks."

That doesn't make sense. The more you make the more likely you went to college so why would people who are doing better have a worse view of college than someone who probably didn't even attend?

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-10 09:03 PM | Reply

"That doesn't make sense."

That it don't.

Somebody's severely f&#ked up.

#13 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-07-10 09:09 PM | Reply

So.... Nulli says that it was too much reading of Breitbart that regressed him, and that social justice is a dirty, anti-Western concept.

O-Kaaaaa....... Apparently the Ivory Tower he's ensconced in by tenure is leaning precariously far right these days. Hope he doesn't fall out. Or maybe he already has.

Rwingerism is, at it's core, all about anti-intellectualism; it drove anti-Jewish racism in much of the world in the 1930's, America had (and has again with Trumpism) it's Know-Nothings, it drives the kind of moral scolding we hear about social justice, which often sounds like Rwing evangelicals talking about sin, lmao.

As as with those evangels, you can always tell the biggest hypocritics are the ones that cry out the most against... immigrants and minorities and the generally literate and sophisticated and edumacation in general.

Why, all them red staters are good folks, and they know Pi are round, it's cornbread that are square.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-10 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You poor, lost and increasingly demented Republicans.

#15 | Posted by Zed at 2017-07-10 10:22 PM | Reply

all about anti-intellectualism

I wouldn't say that, I would say its about being practical for a majority of the young adults that graduate from HighSchool.

I wouldn't say College is bad, I would say its worthless in terms of getting work afterwards for a large segment of the population that goes, and at the end of it the poor sole owes a down payment for a house.

Its more efficient for person to goto a trade school and learn a skill that will get you along on the success sequence. 40% of those that attend college drop out, 61% of the remaining take longer than 4years to graduate.

There are certain degrees that are worthwhile, but a majority of them are worthless in terms of job prospects. Trade school jobs also tend not to be exportable, so there is a little more job security. Skilled trade can be very high income, going to flight school makes a great career as pilots are aging fast.

The whole idea that college is the only way to go has left a vacuum in the trades .... its would be wise today to exploit it, start your own business.

The more you make the more likely you went to college so why would people who are doing better have a worse view of college than someone who probably didn't even attend?
#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Perhaps they see the cost vs reward. Just because you are making more, doesn't mean you don't owe more, or are in debt more. They also might be looking at their own child and thinking how much it will cost.

While only a HighSchool education isn't what I am promoting, there are solid alternatives to going to the College and wasting four years on a history degree and owing a down payment on a house.

#17 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-07-10 11:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

- I wouldn't say that

Of course you wouldn't. You'd say it's all about your tax cuts. Did you ever figure out how many kids would have to go offa the school lunch program to pay for yours? How many people would have to die without health care?

- certain degrees that are worthwhile, but a majority of them are worthless in terms of job prospects.

That's one of the most ridiculous things ever posted here. And that's saying a lot.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

What kind of ------- moron is against EDUCATION!?

Every day this country sinks to new lows and every day I say we can't go any lower, somebody flushes the toilet.

How can you be against learning? What kind of soft brained, limp-dicked, cheetos stained, neck-bearded, Neanderthal is against learning?

How do these knuckle dragging, drool drinking, pasty-faced, dough-bellied, yellow stained underwear wearing farts think things like roads get built, the Internet run, movies made, books written, their checks written, NASCAR cars made and guns designed?

BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW ----!

As Charlie Brown would say: "We're Doomed!"

#19 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-07-11 12:08 AM | Reply

Only in America is going to college as a benefit to yourself and society a matter of debate.

#20 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-07-11 12:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Relax, they probably think it no longer makes monetary sense.

It's called conservatism.

#21 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-07-11 12:20 AM | Reply

Also, home schooling. Republicans no longer want to educate their kids, thus dooming their children. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

#22 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-07-11 12:24 AM | Reply

Yeah, at this rate they could turn out to be Trump voters.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:28 AM | Reply

#21 Like Hillary offered anything.

#24 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-07-11 12:33 AM | Reply

I don't get you, Corky. Hillary wanted boots on the ground in Libya, a no-fly zone in Syria that would have invited conflict with Russia, open borders, and a private policy versus a public policy. And she was the favorite of Wall Street.

Why couldn't you have supported Bernie?

#25 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-07-11 12:36 AM | Reply

"Higher education" has been replaced by educational malpractice.

"The University of Washington, Tacoma's Writing Center now instructs students that expecting proper grammar from others perpetuates racism and ‘unjust language structures.'"

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 12:44 AM | Reply

Republicans have soured on higher education, with more than half now saying that colleges have a negative impact on the United States.

Of course they have. The GOP has done a fabulous job of turning their constituents on education.

Stupid people are easier to control. Easier to lie to. More gullible in general.

They also earn less because they generally don't have the skills required to earn a decent wage.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-07-11 01:12 AM | Reply

Now we know where the uneducated, unskilled labor will come from to pick our crops, clean our hotel rooms and hang out at Home Depot waiting for day labor, it'll be Republican kids. The reason why the right doesn't like education of any kind, but in particular higher education is because it teaches critical thinking skills, which causes people to question all 'Merican things like Gawd and Faux Nuze! Smart kids who grow up in red states will get out, move to the big city or a blue state, get an education and become Democrats. Dumb kids from red states will stay home, live in single wides and bitch about how Libruls ruined their lives, what with all their fancy counting and grammar.

So the blue states will continue to appeal to the producers of our society, the educated the earners, while the red states will continue to be the welfare states that suck off the teet of the blue states. Companies won't want to move to the red states because the education system won't produce a quality workforce, and good employees won't want to move to those red states because their kids will get a third class education. Boeing has discovered serious problems with their South Carolina line, it's much slower and much more mistake prone than the Everett line. Likely the difference in the quality of the people who are applying for jobs at each plant.

#28 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2017-07-11 01:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

This is great for pro education people like me. My kids are studying hard in school and are prepared to go to college. Let the anti education buffoons not send their children to college. The job market will be that much better for my kids.

#26 - The same thing happens in my company. Constant problems meeting FDA regulations in production and lab facilities in the south. They consistently try to get experienced people from NJ to move to southern facilities but nobody wants to go, and there is not a good pool of technical (chemist) to pull from in the inexpensive areas of the south.

#29 | Posted by schmanch at 2017-07-11 07:36 AM | Reply

Let the anti education buffoons not send their children to college. The job market will be that much better for my kids.

#27 | POSTED BY SCHMANCH AT 2017-07-11 07:36 AM | REPLY

So, long story short, college for all is bad for the economy.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-07-11 07:43 AM | Reply

#MAGA

#3 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-07-10 07:31 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Millionaire ------- Golfing Again.

#31 | Posted by 726 at 2017-07-11 07:46 AM | Reply

"What a steaming pile. People correctly perceive that the universities, especially the social sciences and humanities, have been taken over by post-modernist neo-marxist BS which despises Western Civilization."

"Inside the Koch brothers' campus crusade"

www.publicintegrity.org

You're not just wrong Nulli, you're full of crap.

#32 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 07:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"While only a High School education isn't what I am promoting, there are solid alternatives to going to the College and wasting four years on a history degree and owing a down payment on a house."

The very fact that you claim getting a history degree is a waste of time shows how mindless you really are. Who is going to teach history to our kids and grandkids?

#33 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 08:05 AM | Reply

What a steaming pile. People correctly perceive that the universities, especially the social sciences and humanities, have been taken over by post-modernist neo-marxist BS which despises Western Civilization. The Western Canon has been replaced by SJW mediocrities. Shakespeare was replaced by some nobody named Lourdes, whose only qualification was being a black, feminist lesbian.

I have a friend who taught War and Peace last year to his senior capping class. I have another friend who teaches American Lit I and II. When teaching American Lit II, she ends the semester teaching contemporary American poets and writers. I don't think she has taught Audre Lorde (I'm assuming that's who you mean), but she does teach Sherman Alexie, for example. Alexie isn't replacing Shakespeare where my friend teaches. The college has a semester-long course devoted to old Will.

#34 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 08:05 AM | Reply

Who is going to teach history to our kids and grandkids?

Um, the billion graduates who are graduating with worthless history degree now. Or those in between shifts at Starbucks.

I have no problem with higher education. I have two BAs' and a Master's along with several industry certifications.

The problem with colleges now is they are Politically correct indoctrination factories. They are trying to shape minds to a worldview instead of educating them for the workforce.

The blue collar and average American workforce sees this and avoids liberal institutions.

#35 | Posted by boaz at 2017-07-11 08:18 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Oh Gal, all of that stuff is just for rich girls at Welsley, everyone else should be in business college or engineering. We don't need not stinking literature and arts, much less history.

#36 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 08:19 AM | Reply

"The very fact that you claim getting a history degree is a waste of time shows how mindless you really are. Who is going to teach history to our kids and grandkids?"

Charter schools, preferably religiously-affiliated ones, or their parents.

#37 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 08:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The problem with colleges now is they are Politically correct indoctrination factories. "

Have you ever been to one Boaz, because nothing could be further from the truth.

"The blue collar and average American workforce sees this and avoids liberal institutions."

Unless they want to become professionals, teachers, doctors, scientists, even officers in the military. Ignorance is not a virtue no matter how strongly the Republicans try to convince you that it is.
I watched Morning Joe this morning and they were discussing Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting with the Russian lawyer and Joe was stating that no President in history have ever "colluded" with a foreign government to enable them to win an election. There were several experienced news people and former government officials there at the time and none contradicted him though all knew about Reagan colluding with the Ayatollah of Iran. And that might be distant history except that Joe did mention Nixon's colluding the the S. Vietnamese and blowing the Paris Peace Talks though Joe diminished the importance of that even though it cost the U.S. 25,000 more soldiers lives and Vietnam, incalulable deaths, likely millions.
Blue collar folks are easier to lie to. That's why the GOP loves them so much. If everyone was Archie Bunker they could get away with murder...oh wait...they already have, are, will.

#39 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 08:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#17

A history degree is never wasted.

#40 | Posted by Zed at 2017-07-11 08:29 AM | Reply

#35

A history degree is never wasted.

You don't want colleges to be "indoctrination facitories"? Teach history.

#41 | Posted by Zed at 2017-07-11 08:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The problem with colleges now is they are Politically correct indoctrination factories.

It's funny you would say this when your military training was actual indoctrination.

Colleges are nothing like you describe. Most of what you learn in one has nothing to do with politics. I was never indoctrinated at the four colleges I attended. I was encouraged to think.

If Republicans are anti-college education they are relegating themselves, their children and this country to falling down the economic ladder. Countries that believe strongly in higher education will surpass us.

#42 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 08:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I have no problem with higher education. I have two BAs' and a Master's along with several industry certifications.
#35 | POSTED BY BOAZ

McDonald's employee stars aren't really the same as "industry certifications."

#43 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-07-11 08:33 AM | Reply

-wasting four years on a history degree

History is great. Unfortunately the year sequence Western Civ has been replaced by History of White Supremacy, patriarchy, etc. taught by Western-culture-hating post-modern marxists.

"Hey hey, ho ho, Western Civ has got to". That's the mentality on today's college campuses.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 08:43 AM | Reply

#43

So THATS why he likes to prattle on about Nothing Burgers.

#45 | Posted by TedBaxter at 2017-07-11 08:43 AM | Reply

#44

BS.

#46 | Posted by Zed at 2017-07-11 08:46 AM | Reply

#44

BS"

Thoughtful response from a deep thinker. lol

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 08:58 AM | Reply

"The Scrapbook is old enough to remember without fondness the astounding spectacle of the Rev. Jesse Jackson in 1987 leading Stanford University students chanting, "Hey, hey, ho, ho! Western culture's got to go!" The witless infantilism of the chant perfectly encapsulated its substantive content: Who needs to study the poetry of Homer, Shakespeare, and Milton when you can rhyme "ho" and "go"? And what could possibly be a good reason to try to understand a culture you reject -- well, unless somebody asked, you know, why you reject it?"

The largely successful assault on Western culture on college campuses in the 1980s has evolved seamlessly into the culture of speech codes, trigger warnings, and grievance on campus today. At Stanford, 59 percent of undergraduates now want to major in engineering. Call it a flight to seriousness."

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 09:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If Republicans are anti-college education they are relegating themselves, their children and this country to falling down the economic ladder. Countries that believe strongly in higher education will surpass us.
#42 | POSTED BY RCADE

oh how we generalize....

As a percentage we have more people attaining BA's than Germany by a large margin ... its not helping....
www.russellsage.org

Having more people with a degree in Gender Studies and History isn't going to raise our status in the "economic ladder".

Your generalizations are dangerous.

BS.
#46 | POSTED BY ZED

No its not, Stanford removed the requirement, and will eventually remove the class, this is the new trend removing Western(whiteness) curriculum, like much of the SJW efforts ...

Nulli, are you saying two years ago you had a positive view of higher education, but after two years of news stories that tend to only be in heavy rotation on the right, you changed your mind?
#5 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

When did TheClosingOfTheAmericanMind come out? Thats when this was predicted, and it has come to fruition ....

How can you not understand this, it didn't happen over night, it was foreseen decades ago.

#49 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-07-11 09:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 2

History is great. Unfortunately the year sequence Western Civ has been replaced by History of White Supremacy, patriarchy, etc. taught by Western-culture-hating post-modern marxists.
"Hey hey, ho ho, Western Civ has got to". That's the mentality on today's college campuses.

One of my friend's also teaches a freshman course on Slavery and the Civil War (or some semesters Gender and the Civil War). This past weekend we watched Birth of a Nation, the one about Nat Turner's rebellion. My friend was trying to decide if he wanted to use that movie in the fall instead of 12 years a Slave or Amistad. White supremacy and patriarchy are part of Western culture, including our own slice of it here in America. Western civilization is more than white supremacy and patriarchy, but white supremacy and patriarchy are an integral part of it throughout much of its/our history.

#50 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 09:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"this is the new trend removing Western(whiteness) curriculum,"

The movement should not be toward removing whiteness, or maleness, or white maleness, for Western culture, but toward adding other, often silent/silenced voices, which have always co-existed beneath the dominant voices in Western Civilization. Western Civilization is built on the Bible, which is built on patriarchy. What was the first thing the Bible-worshipping cultures did centuries ago? They killed off all the pagans and Goddess's worshippers. That's one way to silence dissent and other voices.

#51 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 09:27 AM | Reply

"The movement should not be toward removing whiteness, or maleness, or white maleness,"

Should add: or white heterosexual maleness

#52 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 09:39 AM | Reply

Have you ever been to one Boaz, because nothing could be further from the truth.

I started collegein the late 80's at Winston Salem State University.

Very quickly, I realized they were more focused on producing black panthers and Social justice warriors than computer programmers. I left there and went to a college without a chip on its shoulder.

I got educated without the racial shaming..

#54 | Posted by boaz at 2017-07-11 09:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

--Western Civilization is built on the Bible,

Your omission of the ancient greeks is telling, Archimedes. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Homer, Sophocles, Euclid, Hippocrates, Pythagoras, etc., laid the foundation of Western Civilization and science. Of course, they are all dead white males, so no one needs to study them in today's post-modernist universities.

#55 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 09:49 AM | Reply

You only have four years to learn computer science .... prioritize on critical thinking, not who invented it .... don't let diversity drive your curriculum.

Computer science majors don't usually take many courses in the humanities, so diversity doesn't drive their curriculum.

FWIW, I am not one who believes that everyone should have a college degree. Like you, I think technical/trade schools are the best route for many. Not just for their futures but for the country in general.

#56 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 09:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The whole green industry relies, not on engineers, but capable technical installers which doesn't require a 4year degree."

Nothing wrong with being an installer but the engineer who designed the solar panel was absolutely necessary to the production of that panel he is going to install. A nation of installers is Andrea's idea of a future for America, that's just sad and foolish at the same time.

#57 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 09:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Your omission of the ancient greeks is telling, Archimedes. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Homer, Sophocles, Euclid, Hippocrates, Pythagoras, etc., laid the foundation of Western Civilization and science. Of course, they are all dead white males, so no one needs to study them in today's post-modernist universities."

You're right: I should have said Western Civilization as it is being sold to us in America today by the Christian right. I'm interested to see how much attention charter schools and homeschoolers under the tutelage of DeVos pay to the folks you mention and even to the likes of Chaucer and Shakespeare.

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 09:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Its amazing really ..... How little liberals appear to comprehend what a green economy looks like."

Would there even be a "green economy" without liberals? No. It would just be a drill baby drill economy.

#59 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 09:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--Western Civilization as it is being sold to us in America today by the Christian right.

The christian right has zero influence on today's campuses, so go find another boogeyman.

#60 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 09:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

: I should have said Western Civilization as it is being sold to us in America today by the Christian right.

Lol, wtf kind of Western Civilization did you study 'back in the day?'

#61 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-07-11 10:01 AM | Reply

"The christian right has zero influence on today's campuses, so go find another boogeyman."

The Christian right wants to do away with college campuses today and replace them with something they deem is better. I am interested in what their idea of better is. Liberty University? DeVos is secretary of education, so, yes, her/their religious beliefs do and will play a role in future discussions about education as long as she holds that poisition.

#62 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 10:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--There are trade schools across the country

Free tuition for vocational, technical and trade schools would be a great idea. But all we hear about is free 4-year college. Why? Because that's a middle-class entitlement and the upper and middle classes want their brood to have 4 year degrees, regardless of whether they are qualified are not.

#63 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 10:07 AM | Reply

"I should have said Western Civilization as it is being sold to us in America today by the Christian right."

Believe it or not, I studied for four years at a conservative Christian college. During my freshman year, we had a course in what they called the religious/philosophic dimension of life.

#64 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 10:09 AM | Reply

I'm trying to remember who we studied: Plato, Aquinas, A Man For All Seasons. Gotta run now but will try to recall more.

#65 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 10:13 AM | Reply

"Free tuition for vocational, technical and trade schools would be a great idea. But all we hear about is free 4-year college. Why?"

I've never read a single opinion that wanted to exclude vocational training when we discuss free tuition. But hey, your imagination victimizes all the time because you want to be a victim.

"The christian right has zero influence on today's campuses, so go find another boogeyman."

Imagine that, those who claim the world is 6,000 years old, that there is no global warming, etc. are ignored at institutions of learning where crazy things like science and history are taught? Holy ignorance Bat Mat!

#66 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Lol, wtf kind of Western Civilization did you study 'back in the day?'

I took a year in Western Civ as a freshman. Didn't have any christian right propaganda at all. I think the professor was jewish or an atheist. Certainly a liberal, not a crazy SJW.

#67 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 10:27 AM | Reply

#9 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

NW flag!

#68 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 10:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#9 Absolute nonsense.

"Shakespeare was replaced by some nobody named Lourdes, whose only qualification was being a black, feminist lesbian."

Hilarious! Shakespeare is over everyone, Nulli says so. I can't stop laughing.

#69 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 10:33 AM | Reply

"I took a year in Western Civ as a freshman. Didn't have any christian right propaganda at all. I think the professor was jewish or an atheist. Certainly a liberal, not a crazy SJW."

Yet somehow you maintained your own ideas about things....so much for brainwashing. I might have one or two professors with strong political beliefs but, for the most part, I couldn't have told you if most were conservatives or liberals because they were professionals. Right wingers today are determined to be victims so they make s**t up about the terrible left wingers teaching in universities and it is hilarious. This has been the steady bull**** lie for most of my entire life and the funny part is so many of these idiots believe it.

#70 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 10:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I might have one or two professors with strong political beliefs but, for the most part, I couldn't have told you if most were conservatives or liberals because they were professionals....

#70 | POSTED BY DANNI

You went to college, what, 40 years ago? I went 25 years ago. When I was there the SJW-thingy was in its infancy. Today, it's a dominant force on many campuses. Between skyrocketing tuition rates tied to bureaucratic-largesse and the imposition of speech-codes and the imposition of monolithic thought in some disciplines, it's no wonder that people are taking an increasingly negative view toward college. One of the schools my oldest is taking a hard look at is Northwestern. It's a great school but $50,000 per year??? Jesus H. Christ!

My point is, Danni, that what you experienced 40 years ago isn't necessarily alive today.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why does no-one remember Sir Philip Sidney? Quite possibly the most talented Engilsh poet in history. He made Shakespeare look like Li'l Jon.

Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show,
That she (dear She) might take some pleasure of my pain:
Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know,
Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain,
I sought fit words to paint the blackest face of woe,
Studying inventions fine, her wits to entertain:
Oft turning others' leaves, to see if thence would flow
Some fresh and fruitful showers upon my sun-burned brain.
But words came halting forth, wanting Invention's stay,
Invention, Nature's child, fled step-dame Study's blows,
And others' feet still seemed but strangers in my way.
Thus great with child to speak, and helpless in my throes,
Biting my truant pen, beating myself for spite,
'Fool' said my Muse to me, 'look in thy heart and write.' (1580)

#72 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-07-11 10:48 AM | Reply

eYeah-uh !!!

#73 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-07-11 10:49 AM | Reply


Not surprising. A perfectly rational response to a flood of stories about SJW riots, suppression of free speech, turning the campuses into indoctrination camps, etc. In that same 2 years Mizzou's enrollment has plummeted.

"It was a moment of triumph for the protesting students. But it has been a disaster for the university.

Freshman enrollment at the Columbia campus, the system's flagship, has fallen by more than 35 percent in the two years since.

The university administration acknowledges that the main reason is a backlash from the events of 2015, as the campus has been shunned by students and families put off by, depending on their viewpoint, a culture of racism or one where protesters run amok."

www.nytimes.com

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-10 0

I was going to say this, but after reading it...I can't say it better and the reason why it's atacked is because the attackers don't want this to change. THIS is exactly what progressives want for the minds of the young. THIS is the plan working. THIS is what progressives are desperate to achieve for the future.

#74 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 10:54 AM | Reply

When I was there the SJW-thingy was in its infancy. Today, it's a dominant force on many campuses.

Stop getting your news about higher education from the Angry Old Man channel.

Just because some colleges have loud far-left movements doesn't mean they dominate how people are being educated at their schools. Even a liberal Ivy League school has a giant mass of students and teachers who are learning and working with little to do with politics.

#75 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 11:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Just because some colleges have loud far-left movements doesn't mean they dominate how people are being educated at their schools. Even a liberal Ivy League school has a giant mass of students and teachers who are learning and working with little to do with politics.

#75 | POSTED BY RCADE

You're cherry-picking my words.

Between skyrocketing tuition rates tied to bureaucratic-largesse and the imposition of speech-codes and the imposition of monolithic thought in some disciplines,

I also mentioned that my oldest is taking a hard look at Northwestern, which obviously means we are planning on sending him to college, so spare me this crap:

Stop getting your news about higher education from the Angry Old Man channel.

#76 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 11:49 AM | Reply

I don't really know what this study means. It reflects an attitude towards universities and that they are bastions of SJW cultures.

They aren't, IMO. I assume this study reflects that the conservative media's war on Universities has worked.

But it doesn't mean that republicans aren't still sending their kids to college nor that they no longer value a college education.

It might mean they steer clear of certain colleges (Mizzou for example) but their kids are going to college regardless.

What I'm saying is that republicans who have a negative view towards college aren't advising their kids to avoid college because of SJW nonsense. I know plenty of die hard republicans who have bought into the notion that universities are places for nut-job liberals who have no other place to exist in the world....but they are all still sending their kids there.

#77 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I also mentioned that my oldest is taking a hard look at Northwestern"

My daughter is looking at the University of Kansas (never thought that would happen)....and even going to law school.

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 11:52 AM | Reply

I also mentioned that my oldest is taking a hard look at Northwestern, which obviously means we are planning on sending him to college ...

I never said otherwise. I was responding to your claim that SJW-ism is a "dominant force" on campuses.

#79 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 11:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Fine--all you Repub parents--pull your kids out of college. Let them learn a trade.

Wanna be a bond trader without understanding how bond convexity (hint: second derivative function) works. Nope.

Wanna sell stocks without knowing the multi-period dividend discount model (hint: time value of money, using algebra)? Nope.

Wanna be a lawyer without being able to critically read a dense legal opinion, or do legal research, or write clearly so as to sway a judge? Nope. (Plus, generally a college degree is needed to get into law school.)

Hell--wanna run a CNC machine to build an engine core? Wanna run a 3-D printer? Math skills, please.

GOP-spawn children: want a job at Starbucks? Get in line behind the college grads who are applying for that work.

Your parents hate college, not trusting it to educate you and turn you into a loyal Republican? You can thank them for your lower standard of living. As Judge Smails said "The world needs ditch diggers too!"

#80 | Posted by catdog at 2017-07-11 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I don't get you, Corky. Hillary wanted boots on the ground in Libya, a no-fly zone in Syria that would have invited conflict with Russia, open borders, and a private policy versus a public policy. And she was the favorite of Wall Street.
Why couldn't you have supported Bernie?

#25 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

You mean the no-fly zone that your Dear Leader now wants? Boots on the ground is a lie, and her tax plan was tough on WS.

And Bernie wasn't in the general election when you voted for the moron now in the WH.

#81 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:21 PM | Reply

History is great. Unfortunately the year sequence Western Civ has been replaced by History of White Supremacy, patriarchy, etc. taught by Western-culture-hating post-modern marxists.

One of my friends often teaches Western Classics I & II. I just asked him what he teaches in those courses. He said in Western Classic I, he goes from the Greeks and Romans up through and including Shakespeare. In Western Classics II, he goes from The Enlightenment to the present. My friend is neither a Western-culture hating post-modernist, not a Marxist.

#82 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-11 12:23 PM | Reply

"You went to college, what, 40 years ago? I went 25 years ago."

And you think Universities are more liberal today than they were during the Vietnam War and at the height of the Civil Rights Movement? Really? And, let's not forget the most salient facts, the fact is that the Vietnam war was a disaster for everyone involved, so the radical left was correct back then. The truth is that the radical left was correct again about our wars in the ME. The radical left has been correct about the economy, we have created the debt you constantly complain about since Reagan cut taxes on the rich. In the "now" conservatives can claim that it is they who are correct but historically, looking back, it seems that the left has been correct almost all the time. Thus, what you view as a slanted education system might just be a fact based education system. I would definitely say that seems to be the truth when it comes to climate change. So, in essence, what you are really arguing for is a system whereby opinions contrary to facts and science should be given equal time with science and facts.

#83 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 12:24 PM | Reply

#82 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Your friend is like most college profs, unlike the hysterical image of them that some rwingers who have regressed from their former leftist leanings like to paint.

#84 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:27 PM | Reply

--And you think Universities are more liberal today than they were during the Vietnam War and at the height of the Civil Rights Movement? Really?

It was only students then. The cultural marxist strategy of "the long march through the institutions" had just begun. Now they've graduated and become administrators and professors.

#85 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 12:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Yup all those stupid ditch diggers let's make fun of them. Sure they are making 3x what the liberal arts major behind the Starbucks counter makes. They don't have the college loan burden of the liberal arts major either but gosh they are stupid.

Oh yeah and very few are "ditch diggers" any longer they are heavy equipment operators.

College isn't for everyone and our recent drive to make it for everyone has hurt us. I'm not one of the 58% who think it's bad for us but driving all students to attend is. Germany was already mentioned in this thread but I will reiterate they don't educate everyone to a college degree but they put a ton of effort into the ones they do educate to that level.

#86 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2017-07-11 12:40 PM | Reply

Nulli gets another NW.

Danni,

That universities are overwhelmingly liberal isn't a problem in and of itself.

Squelching opposing viewpoints and imposing left-wing dogma, when and where it happens, is a major problem.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

- cultural marxist strategery

'Cultural Marxism,' a conspiracy theory with an anti-Semitic twist, is being pushed by much of the American right.

Television commentator Pat Buchanan says it is being used to "de-Christianize" America. Washington heavyweight William Lind claims it is turning U.S. college campuses into "ivy-covered North Koreas." Retired naval commander Gerald Atkinson fears it has invaded the nation's military academies. Immigration activist John Vinson suggests it aims "to distort and destroy" our country.

"Cultural Marxism," described as a conspiratorial attempt to wreck American culture and morality, is the newest intellectual bugaboo on the radical right. Surprisingly, there are signs that this bizarre theory is catching on in the mainstream.

Right-wing ideologues, racists and other extremists have jazzed up political correctness and repackaged it -- in its most virulent form, as an anti-Semitic theory that identifies Jews in general and several Jewish intellectuals in particular as nefarious, communistic destroyers. These supposed originators of "cultural Marxism" are seen as conspiratorial plotters intent on making Americans feel guilty and thus subverting their Christian culture.

In a nutshell, the theory posits..... more at the link

www.splcenter.org

Poor Nulli has finally gone all Patrick Buchanan on us, rofl!!

#88 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nulli,

Serious question: Are you doing what Mao used to do: Take a position contrary to his beliefs and argue it as if he believed it?

I ask because years ago you strongly encouraged me to read Zinn's A People's History.. but now you seem to have backpedaled on quite a bit of what you used to advocate. You never had any patience for anyone wishing to squelch the free expression of ideas - that's not what I'm referring to. Politically and economically you seemed to have moved more Libertarian in the last year or two.

#89 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 12:49 PM | Reply

I think college is great, but there's nothing wrong with alternate forms of bettering yourself like choosing a trade school or the military.

People assume too quickly that if you champion college you look down on the alternatives. I think college is better in many circumstances, but not all of them.

#90 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 12:57 PM | Reply

-- 'Cultural Marxism,' a conspiracy theory with an anti-Semitic twist, is being pushed by much of the American right.

Complete and utter BS. It's another name for the Frankfurt school of neo-marxist critical theory. Marcuse, the "Father of the New Left" was instrumental. As well as the Gramsci. Marcuse was a German Jew, you idiot.

#91 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 12:58 PM | Reply

The Southern Poverty Law Center article by Bill Berkowitz details the history of "Cultural Marxism" as it passes through the hands of every infamous rwing nutjob we've ever heard of, including Buchanan, William Lind, Paul Weyrich, and David Horowitz.... it's history is chilling.

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 12:58 PM | Reply

Now they've graduated and become administrators and professors.

Not true. They became administrators and professors a long time ago. Now many of them are retiring and some from that generation, such as my dad, have died.

My generation of students who graduated college in the 1980s is likely the largest cohort of professors and administrators. A lot of our attitudes were a reaction to boomers, not an adoption of all their values.

#93 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 01:00 PM | Reply

#88: Funny you only see the corruption on the right. You should look to your left sometime.

#94 | Posted by Daniel at 2017-07-11 01:00 PM | Reply

- you idiot.

I would have to reserve that description for someone who is pushing Cultural Marxism as something more than the rwing boogeyman that it is, as the factual history in the article details.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:01 PM | Reply

I think college is wasted on the young.
I'm much handier now than I was when I was younger. I wish I knew how to do basic electric, plumbing, framing, etc. those skills would have saved me $$$$ when I needed it the most as a young homeowner.

There was a stigma on Trades when I was younger. The "dumb" kids did those...

Now, I think "I want my kids to learn a trade and go to school." Plumbing and electric seem the most stable or least likely to dramatically change with technology.

#96 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-07-11 01:02 PM | Reply

- I think college is better in many circumstances, but not all of them.

That, of course, is the rational moderate response. Which is diametrically opposed to the trend among Republicans to say that college is actually, "bad for the US".

#97 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:02 PM | Reply

--The Southern Poverty Law Center

A discredited far-left propaganda group that calls anyone to the right of Lenin a "rightwinger."

#98 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 01:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is an American nonprofit legal advocacy organization specializing in civil rights and public interest litigation. Based in Montgomery, Alabama, it is noted for its successful legal cases against white supremacist groups, its classification of hate groups and other extremist organizations, and its educational programs that promote tolerance.

en.wikipedia.org

The SPLC is the kind of tolerant, effective, and well recognized liberal org that the poster Bill O' Reilly appreciated. The rwinger Nullifidian not so much.

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#98

But do educate us as to how all those rwing nutjobs that nurtured Cultural Marxism into the ideology you now say rules the education system never really did promote and mold it... that should be interesting.

#100 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:16 PM | Reply

#96 electric is already changing with technology but for the moment that is good as a skilled electrician can jump on new opportunities as they arise.

Plumbing hasn't changed in years and I don't see any sign of changes on the horizon. The problem with plumbing in my state is the requirement for 2000 hours as an apprentice and about 3500 dollars worth of materials and testing required to get your license. I looked into it a few years ago as plumbing and gas fireplace service is very complementary (plumbers are the only ones who can run gas lines) but the cost is prohibitive for an adult. If your kids are of the mind to do it get them in early when working as a low or unpaid apprentice is doable.

#101 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2017-07-11 01:17 PM | Reply

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a great, fearless civil rights organization. No actual liberal would bash it.

#102 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 01:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Many Americans today are concered abut the huge debt most students incur going to college and many intelligent youong people are saying "thanks but no thanks."
My own son didn't go to college and he make quite a bit more money than I do, he has skills he can take anywhere and find work. That said, he wouldn't tell you he is opposed to college for others.

#103 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 01:18 PM | Reply

I read once that the easiest way to become a millionaire was to start a janitorial business.

#104 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 01:19 PM | Reply

If you live in Ft. Lauderdale go into the yacht industry. There is unbelievable amounts of money changing hands for goods, services and emplyees directly working aboard.

#105 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 01:21 PM | Reply

lol, one of the easiest ways to become not a millionaire is to start a restaurant. The odds are very much against it.

#106 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:21 PM | Reply

-- nonprofit

Hah! They are rolling in cash.

" CharityWatch (formerly the American Institute of Philanthropy), an independent organization that monitors and rates leading nonprofits for their fundraising efficiency, has consistently given the SPLC its lowest grade of "F" (i.e., "poor") for its stockpiling of assets far beyond what CharityWatch deems a reasonable reserve (three years' worth of operating expenses) to tide it over during donation-lean years. But even if the SPLC weren't sitting on an unspent $256 million, according to CharityWatch, it would still be a mediocre ("C+") performer among nonprofits. "
...The most damning quotes about Dees and the SPLC all come from former associates on the political left.

www.thesocialcontract.com

#107 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 01:23 PM | Reply

#107

Well, I guess since you can't deny the accuracy of the rwing history behind what is now called Cultural Marxism as detailed in the article, your best bet is to prevaricate further.

One Charity watching org thinks the SPLC puts aside too much money for future needs? Wow, that really makes your point about Cultural Marxism... hahaha!

#108 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:27 PM | Reply

btw, they are rolling in cash because of the fine reputation, as Rogers mentioned, and the great werk that they do.

#109 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:28 PM | Reply

The rub here is that republicans say college isn't for everyone with one side of their mouth and then work to make sure that nobody can earn a living unless they have a college degree.

If you are going to say college is not for everyone then you need to also allow those who don't go to college to earn a living.

We need burger flippers, cashiers, stockers, waiters, dishwashers, etc.

LOTS OF THEM

THEY ARE NOT TEMPORARY JOBS OR PASS THROUGH JOBS. THEY ARE PERMANENT.

These are not just jobs for students

There are million full time jobs that pay $10/hr or less.

There are only 21 million Americans aged 18-24

If every single one of them worked full time in one of those low paying jobs (not likely while in school) That still leaves 19 million low wage jobs that MUST BE FILLED by people over 24

#110 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-07-11 01:31 PM | Reply

I wwent to Charity Navigator and it does not agree at all with the information Nulli posted. Link to the page below, if I'm missing something then I apologize in advance but I don't think I am.

www.charitynavigator.org

#111 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 01:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The site Nulli posted from is classified as a hate group by the SPLC.

Here is what Wiki says about that site

The Social Contract Press (SCP) is an American publisher. It is a proponent of immigration reduction and population control, with an emphasis on issues such as culture and the environment. It was founded by John Tanton and is headed by Wayne Lutton.

It publishes the quarterly Social Contract journal, reprints books, and publishes new works.

It reprinted Jean Raspail's 1973 novel The Camp of the Saints, which was a best-seller in France when first published, and had originally been published in translated English form by Scribners. Due in part to the SCP's publication and endorsement of the novel, it has been described as a "hate group" which "publishes a number of racist works" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[1] In response, the Social Contract Press devoted its Spring 2010 issue criticizing the SPLC, calling them "profiteers of hate".[2] Tanton has responded to the SPLC's characterization by saying that the SCP simply felt that the controversial novel should be available for those interested to read.[3] The SPLC countered that those interested to read the novel tend to be American white supremacists.[4]

#112 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-07-11 01:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

That sort of explains it Hatter.

#113 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-11 01:49 PM | Reply

#112

That's hilarious.

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" - Walter Scott

#114 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:50 PM | Reply

Nullifidian quoted a source that is so bigoted against non-white immigrants it reprinted Camp of the Saints. Holy moley!

#115 | Posted by rcade at 2017-07-11 01:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#115

They were camping on his lawn.

#116 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 01:52 PM | Reply

Why is the Right opposed to Social Justice? It is only the basic teachings of Jesus (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; as you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me; judge not, that ye be not judged; love thy neighbor as thyself, etc.). How is this a bad thing in a country where 85% self-identify as Christian?

#117 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-07-11 01:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

--The Social Contract Press (SCP) is an American publisher.

There are plenty of liberal critics of the SPLC, but the issue is a deliberate deflection from the main point about cultural marxism/post-modern marxist/regressive left/critical theory/gramscianism or whatever label you want to attach to it.

#118 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 02:00 PM | Reply

"Why is the Right opposed to Social Justice?"

They don't believe they are. Instead, what they believe they witness on college campuses isn't "social justice" and I'm sure it's in part due to the sources they are exposed to that leads to that conclusion.

Meaning.....that if your sources to see what's occurring on college campuses is Rush Limbaugh, etc...then you're not going to believe it's actual "social justice" activities.

#119 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

If you look at all the years the SLPC was scored by Charity Navigator you'll see some years that were poor scores and that's likely what the SCP is referencing......those years.

#120 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 02:04 PM | Reply

--Nullifidian quoted a source that is so bigoted against non-white immigrants it reprinted Camp of the Saints. Holy moley!

Sorry. Delete it. That's not what this thread is about.

#121 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 02:05 PM | Reply

#118

There aren't plenty of denials of the factual history of promotion and molding of Cultural Marxism by infamous rwing nutjobs as detailed in the SPLC article..... just laughable Deflections about the source.

#122 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:06 PM | Reply

"The term "cultural Marxism" is believed to have been coined by American sociology professor Trent Schroyer in his 1973 The Critique of Domination: The Origins and Development of Critical Theory, in which the author identifies the Frankfurt School's critical theory, a school of thought focusing on reflective assessment and cultural critique through application of social sciences, as the origin of a "culture industry" that imposes "socially unnecessary constraints of human freedom" and ultimately, the social domination of the individual.

"As advanced industrial societies developed, the individual was more integrated into and dependent upon the collectivity and less able to utilize society for active self-expression."

In the following decades, Schroyer's critique of the Frankfurt School as the origin of postwar liberal agendas and destruction of individualism was further expounded upon by other mainstream academics, most notably Richard Weiner's Cultural Marxism and Political Sociology (1981) and Michael Minnicino's New Dark Age: Frankfurt School and ‘Political Correctness' (1992)."

Like I said, just another label for the philosophy of the Frankfurt School

#123 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 02:23 PM | Reply

There is common ground to be found here.

Higher education has more than one purpose. Education in and of itself has value. We discover our strengths and refine our interests through it. We learn how to solve problems. We learn how to learn.
It is not simply to serve as job training for corporate America. The insight we glean from the humanities -- history, literature, music, the arts, philosophy, and religion -- helps us to be not just good worker bees, but good citizens. These subjects can transport us out of our closed loop, the comfort zone we build for ourselves based on our own narrow set of experiences, to the world beyond. Theoretically the humanities can broaden our views to be more accepting of people's differences. Diplomacy and consensus and a more meaningful life are goals worth pursuing.

Still, even as a liberal I have to cut Nulli, JeffJ and Boaz some slack here and concede that there is a PC thread on some college campuses, where "safe spaces" and sensitivity to every perceived slight can get overbearing. Students from any political viewpoint who have a good head on their shoulders can differentiate between what's a reasonable accommodation and what's the effect of whiners who seem to thrive on victimization. I'm disgusted by the Koch brothers, but I'm also repulsed by those who want to shut down speakers who present a different view.

#124 | Posted by cbob at 2017-07-11 02:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#123 |

Like I said, another non-denial of the factual history of promotion and molding of Cultural Marxism by infamous rwing nutjobs as detailed in the SPLC article.

#125 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:25 PM | Reply

rich thread....passages from 'scholars' whose most in-depth association with higher education or

pedagogy is they sat in a classroom...

I've been in higher education behind the desk and in faculty meetings and even "bull sessions"....and

faculty "teas"...( cocktail party )....and the percentage of left is staggeringly higher...

even that long ago...bulk of the 70's... a conservative estimate of liberals to conservatives had to

be 10 to 1 on left.

but what do I know ?....

EASY...I was there, and you weren't.

#126 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 02:34 PM | Reply

Babbles, Steve Bannon is left of you.

#127 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:37 PM | Reply

#124

The biggest problem I see with the cultureral argument for college is that for the cost of 1 year at school you could spend 6 months traveling the globe and get a much broader and more accurate view of other cultures.

Honestly that is what I'm encouraging my two younger kids to do, 2 years at CC getting the base course work done then a year off to work and travel then 2 years of hard studying to graduate in 5 total years with a solid degree and the valuable experience of visiting other countries. Total cost for dad about the same as farting around a college for 4 years but with a far broader education.

#128 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2017-07-11 02:39 PM | Reply

"socially unnecessary constraints of human freedom"

Rwing corporate entities get a tingle down their thighs when they hear that kind of talk.

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:41 PM | Reply

Which is why so many infamous rwing nutjobs have pushed Cultural Marxism as their issue du jour.

#130 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:43 PM | Reply

#128 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2017-07-11 02:39 PM | R

that's good....I like it...

#131 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 02:44 PM | Reply

"Why is the Right opposed to Social Justice?"

They don't believe they are

Then why do they use it as an epithet? It doesn't lend them any credibility. Might as well call "SJWs" "Jesus Lovers" (like they used call whites who thought blacks deserved equal rights, "N***** Lovers").

#132 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-07-11 02:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Babbles, Steve Bannon is left of you.

#127 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:37 PM

are you sure ?....

it was 73-80....

like dude....the 70's man....you know...some were like...far out...and groovy even,.,..

#133 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 02:49 PM | Reply

#124
The biggest problem I see with the cultureral argument for college is that for the cost of 1 year at school you could spend 6 months traveling the globe and get a much broader and more accurate view of other cultures.
Honestly that is what I'm encouraging my two younger kids to do, 2 years at CC getting the base course work done then a year off to work and travel then 2 years of hard studying to graduate in 5 total years with a solid degree and the valuable experience of visiting other countries. Total cost for dad about the same as farting around a college for 4 years but with a far broader education.

#128 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR AT 2017-07-11 02:39 PM | FLAG:

Yep, that's a great approach. Not everybody has to do the conventional 16 straight years (or more). Some people don't even need college to get a good job. But most will benefit both financially ($1 million or more) and civically from a college degree.

#134 | Posted by cbob at 2017-07-11 02:50 PM | Reply

#133

Are you trying to say that you could actually -------- in the 70's, Unkie?

www.youtube.com

#135 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:53 PM | Reply

A Pew poll released Monday shows that Republicans' views of higher education institutions have taken a dramatic turn for the worse since 2015.

It's understandable that the repugs have a dim view of higher education after hearing that the ------------------- defrauded thousands of students.

#136 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-07-11 03:08 PM | Reply

#133

Are you trying to say that you could actually -------- in the 70's, Unkie?

www.youtube.com

#135 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 02:53

there's a pic I've got taken of me on a hill doing some score study.....pipe...YES dark brown jacket with light brown elbow patch....shades of course.....with virtually no waistline...

THAT GUY.... got laid anytime he wanted...and did.

and you've got the wrong song......forget babs.....THIS is our anthem....

www.youtube.com

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
For we were young and sure to have our way.

#137 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 03:21 PM | Reply

Which is why so many infamous rwing nutjobs have pushed Cultural Marxism as their issue du jour.

#130 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-07-11 02:43 PM | FLAG:

Some issue. The various meandering polemics that appear on forums like this can be downright paranoid: someone posted on the other day that suggested critical theory was an honest to goodness Soviet conspiracy to erode American values.

#138 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 03:49 PM | Reply

Also, could someone explain to me the logic of arguing for the limiting of college curricula to "the Western Canon" (whatever that is) and claiming that this is somehow MORE representative of academic freedom than curricula that expand beyond it?

#139 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 03:51 PM | Reply

Also, could someone explain to me the logic of arguing for the limiting of college curricula to "the Western Canon" (whatever that is) and claiming that this is somehow MORE representative of academic freedom than curricula that expand beyond it?

#139 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The argument isn't one of limiting college curricula to "the Western Canon". What is being argued is that "the Western Canon" shouldn't be dropped and replaced by postmodern --------.

#140 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- postmodern --------.

Like social justice, equality, and freedom of speech?

#141 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Like social justice, equality, and freedom of speech?"

Again, that's not how folks are interpreting what they see going on.

#142 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:16 PM | Reply

#142

True, many rwingers see through the spectacles of the molders of modern "Cultural Marxism" as detailed in the SPLC article in #88.

#143 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:19 PM | Reply

The argument isn't one of limiting college curricula to "the Western Canon". What is being argued is that "the Western Canon" shouldn't be dropped and replaced by postmodern --------.

#140 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:13 PM | FLAG:

Same difference. Conservatives are upset that their pet thinkers, writers, etc will no longer be the only ones taught, that sometimes another thinker, writer, etc will be given a shot. Hence, they are the ones against academic freedom.

#144 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:22 PM | Reply

143

I don't know if Limbaugh, Hannity and Fox News represent the "molders of modern cultural Marxism"....but whatever.

and you've rubbed yourself with your #88 enough. Aren't you finished yet?

#145 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:23 PM | Reply

Like social justice, equality, and freedom of speech?
#141 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-07-11 04:15 PM | FLAG:

Exactly like that. Reactionaries like Jeff can't even articulate what postmodernity even is, let alone why any of us should have a problem with it.

#146 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:24 PM | Reply

--Also, could someone explain to me the logic of arguing for the limiting of college curricula to "the Western Canon" (whatever that is)

Who is arguing for that? A year of Western Civ is 12 quarter units out of the 180 necessary for graduation. Add another 12 units for Eastern Civ if you like. That would be fine. And don't play dumb. You know what the Western Canon is.

#147 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 04:24 PM | Reply

Conservatives are upset that their pet thinkers, writers, etc will no longer be the only ones taught, that sometimes another thinker, writer, etc will be given a shot. Hence, they are the ones against academic freedom.

#144 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

They are deemed "classics" for a reason. Replacing classical writings with postmodern garbage is educational malpractice. Introducing postmodern garbage alongside classical writings is not a problem IMO.

#148 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:25 PM | Reply

#145

Not until you've read and comprehended it, so no, never finished.

-you've rubbed yourself

You should really keep those fantasies visuals that pop into your mind to yourself. Hate to see you embarrass yourself so.

#149 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:25 PM | Reply

Again, that's not how folks are interpreting what they see going on.

#142 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-07-11 04:16 PM | FLAG:

Since when is the daily Fox news suppository called interpreting?

Just admit they don't know squat and are scared because they are scared/intimidated by things they don't know.

#150 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 04:26 PM | Reply

Exactly like that. Reactionaries like Jeff can't even articulate what postmodernity even is, let alone why any of us should have a problem with it.

#146 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Postmodernity is an insipid philosophy that, summed up, postulates ALL truths are subjective. It's retarded.

#151 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:26 PM | Reply

Just admit they don't know squat and are scared because they are scared/intimidated by things they don't know.

#150 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Here's a clue: When people see invited speakers shouted down, or run out of campus with violence ensuing and nothing is done about it, they see it as an institutional failure. It's been happening with increasing regularity over the past few years.

#152 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:28 PM | Reply

- Reactionaries like Jeff

Reactionaries like Nullifidian should know better. Admitting that Cultural Marxism has become an issue du jour molded and defined in modern times by the worst sorts of rwing nutjobs would be an honest start.

Not that that would ever happen.

#153 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:28 PM | Reply

"Not until you've read and comprehended it, so no, never finished."

I read it. I also read Nulli's link as well as others.

I haven't called any of it --------. Good read, actually.

#154 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:29 PM | Reply

"When people see invited speakers shouted down, or run out of campus with violence ensuing and nothing is done about it, they see it as an institutional failure."

especially when it is reported on their favorite conservative media of choice.

#155 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:30 PM | Reply

Postmodernity is an insipid philosophy that, summed up, postulates ALL truths are subjective. It's retarded.

#151 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:26 PM | FLAG:

Ableist slur noted.

And your definition is a complete strawman. Thank you for confirming your ignorance on this topic and have fun tilting at windmills.

#156 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Admitting that Cultural Marxism has become an issue du jour molded and defined in modern times by the worst sorts of rwing nutjobs would be an honest start."

you understand that your link in #88 (drink..) accuses Pat Buchanan of pushing it when he never even used those words.

#157 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:31 PM | Reply

#157

I understand that selective argument of a minor point is a logical fallacy, yes.

#158 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:33 PM | Reply

"They are deemed "classics" for a reason."

And what reason is that? Also, how can you claim to be educated when you accept such things so uncritically.

#159 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:33 PM | Reply

Also understand that Corky's link in #88 (drink) attempts to get folks to wet their undies over the attempt of "rwing nutjobs" get folks to wet their undies about such subversions........

I honestly don't know how mainstream any of that ever became.

#160 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:34 PM | Reply

And your definition is a complete strawman. Thank you for confirming your ignorance on this topic and have fun tilting at windmills.

#156 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Um....

Postmodernism describes a broad movement that developed in the mid- to late 20th century across philosophy, the arts, architecture and criticism which marked a departure from modernism.[1][2][3] While encompassing a broad range of ideas, postmodernism is typically defined by an attitude of skepticism, irony or distrust toward grand narratives, ideologies and various tenets of universalism, including objective notions of reason, human nature, social progress, moral universalism, absolute truth, and objective reality.[4] Instead, it asserts to varying degrees that claims to knowledge and truth are products of social, historical or political discourses or interpretations, and are therefore contextual or socially constructed. Accordingly, postmodern thought is broadly characterized by tendencies to epistemological and moral relativism, pluralism, irreverence and self-referentiality.[4]

en.wikipedia.org

It's no wonder you take umbrage to my caricature of postmodernism. You are a postmodernist.

#161 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:35 PM | Reply

"Who is arguing for that? A year of Western Civ is 12 quarter units out of the 180 necessary for graduation. Add another 12 units for Eastern Civ if you like. That would be fine."

As is effectively what is happening. Along with the additional consideration of other voices in western civ.

"And don't play dumb. You know what the Western Canon is."

Enough to know it is hotly contested even by traditionalists like yourself.

#162 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:35 PM | Reply

Here's a clue: When people see invited speakers shouted down, or run out of campus with violence ensuing and nothing is done about it, they see it as an institutional failure. It's been happening with increasing regularity over the past few years.

#152 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:28 PM | FLAG:

Funny stuff Jeff.

What is your interpretation of biology, chemistry, physics, economics, entrepreneurship, medical school, dental school, law school, nursing, and the actual functions of the school to educate?

The whole thing comes down to an Anne Coulter talk for our conservative thought police.

#163 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

-I honestly don't know

You should say that more often... it's so... you.

#164 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:35 PM | Reply

"They are deemed "classics" for a reason."
---
And what reason is that?

If you don't know, I can't help you.

Also, how can you claim to be educated when you accept such things so uncritically.
#159 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

What makes you think I accept such things uncritically?

#165 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:36 PM | Reply

It's no wonder you take umbrage to my caricature of postmodernism.
#161 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:35 PM | FLAG:

Nice that you admit it is a caricature. Also, that definition you posted? It doesn't say what your initial definition did. So, nice self retort. Here's a hint, you semi-literate: contextual is not the same as subjective. Open a book. Educate yourself.

#166 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:37 PM | Reply

- how mainstream any of that ever became.

You could check the thread article..... it's the majority opinion on the right now.

#167 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:37 PM | Reply

Jeff, can you give us an example of how Postmodernism has caused damage to our society?

IOW, where has it taken classical facts and perverted it into subjective truths?

#168 | Posted by eberly at 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | Reply

There are calls for the kids to be independent of the faculty.

The faculty say to stop and allow free speech.

Then the kids say no, not in my campus.

Then the school is condemned for controlling the kids.

It's nonsense.

Of course the conservatives peddle nonsense as equivalent to truth.

#169 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | Reply

What is your interpretation of biology, chemistry, physics, economics, entrepreneurship, medical school, dental school, law school, nursing, and the actual functions of the school to educate?

I've already said that I don't see college as a detriment up-thread. We are planning on sending both of our kids to college.

The whole thing comes down to an Anne Coulter talk for our conservative thought police.
#163 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Invited speakers shouldn't be shouted down or violently chased off campus. Are you seriously defending such actions?

#170 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | Reply

"What makes you think I accept such things uncritically?"

You mean besides posts like this? "If you don't know, I can't help you."

You can't even give a real definition, let alone defend it.

#172 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#169 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Strawman

#173 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:40 PM | Reply

IOW, where has it taken classical facts and perverted it into subjective truths?

#168 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | FLAG:

Begging the question.

#174 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:41 PM | Reply

"What makes you think I accept such things uncritically?"
You mean besides posts like this? "If you don't know, I can't help you."
You can't even give a real definition, let alone defend it.

#172 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

I am not going to give you a dissertation as to why Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. are considered classical writers and thinkers.

#175 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:41 PM | Reply

I am not going to give you a dissertation as to why Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. are considered classical writers and thinkers.

#175 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:41 PM | FLAG:

Because you can't. Someone told you they were classics and you accept it without thought or reflection. You are nothing but a dogmatist.

#176 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:43 PM | Reply

Also, how is Socrates considered a classic writer when we have none of his writings (if indeed he produced any)? You should have stuck with Plato and Aristotle.

#177 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:45 PM | Reply

Jeff, can you give us an example of how Postmodernism has caused damage to our society?
IOW, where has it taken classical facts and perverted it into subjective truths?

#168 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I am not sure how I would define how it's caused damage to our society. I view it as embracing illogical thinking. Take Dirk here as Exhibit A. Pseudo-intellectualism (another term for postmodernism) isn't clever and it certainly isn't logical. Postmodernists tend to ignore history, or take a cherry-picked view of history, and operate under the belief that human behavior can be perfected if given the proper nudges from technocratic experts.

#178 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:46 PM | Reply

Because you can't. Someone told you they were classics and you accept it without thought or reflection. You are nothing but a dogmatist.

#176 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The are the fathers of 2 competing strains of philosophy. Are you so much of a postmodernist that you don't understand this?

#179 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 04:48 PM | Reply

According to the survey, Republicans (see rwingers) are again embracing crass anti-intellectualism the way they and much of the world did in the 1930's.

Some of us are just unhappy to see that happen again.

#180 | Posted by Corky at 2017-07-11 04:51 PM | Reply

www.imdb.com

This is who taught today's professors.
FACT!

#181 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-07-11 04:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Pseudo-intellectualism (another term for postmodernism) isn't clever and it certainly isn't logical."

Critical inquiry isn't clever? You have a very odd definition of cleverness then.

Why use logic as your standard instead of some other one (aesthics, historical utility, fidelity to tradition, etc)?

"Postmodernists tend to ignore history, or take a cherry-picked view of history,"

1) citation needed.

2) MORE question begging (so much for your appreciation for logic).

"and operate under the belief that human behavior can be perfected if given the proper nudges from technocratic experts."

Now you are just making stuff up....Do you have any education in this topic at all?

#182 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:51 PM | Reply

The are the fathers of 2 competing strains of philosophy.
#179 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:48 PM | FLAG:

....and? How does that make them "classic?" "Postmodernist" have schools too. Some of them even compete.

#183 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 04:55 PM | Reply

"Based on income levels, Republicans are less positive about higher education the more money they make. Just 31 percent of those who earn at least $75,000 a year in family income view colleges positively, compared to 34 percent in the $30,000 to $74,999 range. And 46 percent of Republicans making less than $30,000 gave higher education positive marks."
That doesn't make sense. The more you make the more likely you went to college so why would people who are doing better have a worse view of college than someone who probably didn't even attend?

#12 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It makes perfect sense. Republicans are creatures of entitlement despite accusing the left of it. They don't not appreciate or understand how their education has helped them just like they dont' understand the privilege of being in a racial majority. They cannot appreciate their own privilege. They truly and honestly believe they are self made.

#184 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-07-11 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Invited speakers shouldn't be shouted down or violently chased off campus. Are you seriously defending such actions?

#170 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-07-11 04:38 PM | FLAG:

Explain where you see a defense. You throw strawman arguments.

There is no school supporting violence and supporting shouting down and violence.

Why do you propagate the lie?

#185 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 04:57 PM | Reply

There is no school supporting violence and supporting shouting down and violence.
Why do you propagate the lie?

#185 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

There are plenty of schools that allow it to happen and do nothing about it afterward. I would call that 'tacit support'.

#186 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 05:17 PM | Reply

"There are plenty of schools that allow it to happen and do nothing about it afterward."

Do any come to mind?

#187 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 05:22 PM | Reply

Middlebury, Mizzou, Berkeley, UCLA and Evergreen State spring immediately to mind.

#188 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-07-11 05:25 PM | Reply

--There is no school supporting violence and supporting shouting down and violence.

Nonsense. If they don't expel students who suppress, sometimes violently, free speech, they are collaborators who have betrayed the classical ideal of the university as an institution that welcomes the free exchange of ideas.

#189 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 05:26 PM | Reply

#189

Burn down the universities, anoint Donald King, and make Barron Dauphin.

#190 | Posted by Zed at 2017-07-11 05:35 PM | Reply

Nonsense. If they don't expel students who suppress, sometimes violently, free speech, they are collaborators who have betrayed the classical ideal of the university as an institution that welcomes the free exchange of ideas.

#189 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2017-07-11 05:26 PM | FLAG:

They have their own rules and they are enforced according to law.

When you run a school, you can try being the politeness police and see how that goes.

It's the insanity here of demanding the school control the students, then simultaneously demanding they stop controlling the students.

#191 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 05:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

It's the fox news effect.

Smart = evil.

Stupid = good.

#192 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-07-11 05:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--They have their own rules and they are enforced according to law.

No they aren't. They are violating the 1st amendment and should be sued by the justice department for civil rights violations.

#193 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-07-11 05:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

nulli.....it's another example of psychiatric projection...

their arguments against the comments of you and jeff prove your points better than your argument in the first place.

real free speech at a college...SHUT IT DOWN !!! only the "accepted" language and ideas are

allowed....and while it's not rampant across the country, it's growing and is one of the foundations of

the progressives hope and goal....to make the US a third world country under the control of globalist totalitarians.

#194 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 06:06 PM | Reply

"They are violating the 1st amendment and should be sued by the justice department for civil rights violations."

You want to see 18 hear old college students using to federal prison for this?

I believe the laws used are more for property damage.

They have the right to say they don't like her.

#195 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-07-11 06:09 PM | Reply

scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net

#196 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-11 06:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Relax, we will need someone to pick veggies when the wall is built. Now we know it will be Republicans.

#197 | Posted by Bubba10 at 2017-07-11 06:54 PM | Reply

of the foundations of

the progressives hope and goal....to make the US a third world country under the control of globalist totalitarians.

#194 | Posted by afkabl2

fox news melted your brain. YOu look like a fool repeating their propaganda.

#198 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-07-11 07:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

No they aren't. They are violating the 1st amendment and should be sued by the justice department for civil rights violations.

#193 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2017-07-11 05:58 PM | FLAG:

Hyperbolic nonsense. I would love to see someone try to make that case in court...

#199 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 07:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Hyperbolic nonsense. I would love to see someone try to make that case in court...

#199 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Have to ask EtAL but if they take federal dollars they are an extension of the government. Much like LGBT rights upheld in highschool restrooms.

#200 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-07-11 07:34 PM | Reply

Have to ask EtAL but if they take federal dollars they are an extension of the government. Much like LGBT rights upheld in highschool restrooms.

#200 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2017-07-11 07:34 PM | FLAG:

So what? That doesn't mean the notion that protests, even disruptive ones, against controversial speakers will hold up in court as civil rights violations... Think of all the students groups that would have been sued in the 60s.

#201 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-11 07:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

58% of Republicans Say Colleges Are Bad for U.S.

Yes, in their current state they are

1. they don't "flunk" anyone out anymore. It's all about the numbers. (I won't name the Private College) Personal experience; if you are a Foreign Student that pays "full boat" Tuition and Housing you will not be kicked out because of grades

2. Colleges probably don't realize it, but they are Capitalist.........all about the money. refer to #1.

3. they are not teaching basics. many Graduating don't know basic American History (High Schools too)

#202 | Posted by Maverick at 2017-07-11 08:15 PM | Reply

they are not teaching basics. many Graduating don't know basic American History (High Schools too)

College isn't for basics. The GEs (general education classes) are mainly math and English. Otherwise students choose which classes to take.

It's college, a time to specialize. Basics. Such as American History should have been taught in high schools.

And despite morons insisting otherwise. Math (algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus...), science (biology, chemistry, physics, physiology...), engineering, art, philosophy, etc etc etc... aren't indoctrinating anyone.

They're giving you knowledge.

If gaining knowledge makes one question the Bible. Or the principles of the GOP. That's not the fault of the college.

Bunch of regressives posting in this thread need to stop huffing out of the Republican gas canister.

#203 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-07-11 08:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

On one of the many articles pertaining to this they mentioned that marx's communist manifesto appears in 3000 college syllabi. That is about 75%. They conflate this existence as a course topic to it being taught TO the students. The reality is that students choose their own courses and both the number and subject of courses are determined by that free market that the republicans claim to love. Students are asking themselves "what do I want to learn ABOUT? Then they see nonstop constant talk calling democrats and liberals marxists as a perjorative. It is no wonder that many of them ask "What's this all about" and decide to find out for themselves instead of letting a talking head on Fox news just say marxism bad and blindly accept it. The vast majority of these courses do not teach marxism, they merely explore his writings. Economics is taught in the business schools and there isn't a single one I could find that teaches marxism.

#204 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-07-11 10:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"marx's communist manifesto appears in 3000 college syllabi."

There are about 1400 colleges ranked in the US News & World Report.

So this means the Communist Manifesto appears on about 2 syllabi per institution.

And NulliMackris is completely freaked out by this.

#205 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-11 11:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Basics. Such as American History should have been taught in high schools. "

They teach a pretty, ahem, whitewashed version of American History in high school. Maybe if you get into the AP classes you will learn some things.

"Lies My Teacher Told Me" is a pretty good book describing the situation.

#206 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-11 11:22 PM | Reply

Nulli posted this, quoting The Spectacle or whatever it was,

"The largely successful assault on Western culture on college campuses in the 1980s has evolved seamlessly into the culture of speech codes, trigger warnings, and grievance on campus today. At Stanford, 59 percent of undergraduates now want to major in engineering. Call it a flight to seriousness."

Which is pretty much exactly what I said earlier,

"Doesn't that seem just a little bit extreme? Why not simply advise kids to do a STEM major?

#207 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-11 11:49 PM | Reply

But I would really like to understand this issue, so maybe someone can help me out with this one. This is the paragraph just before what I quoted, from The Scrapbook:

"The largely successful assault on Western culture on college campuses in the 1980s"

Okay, what exactly was successfully assaulted? What aspects of Western Culture are no longer found on college campuses?

Moving on,

"has evolved seamlessly into the culture of speech codes, trigger warnings, and grievance on campus today."

How are these not omnipresent in society?
Here are some from the side I think is full of ---- with this ----:
Speech Codes: ----, antifa, Drain The Swamp, #MAGA, Lock Her Up, Second Amendment Remedies,
More Speech Codes: Little o, Obummer, The Zero, -----, Kenyan Marxist Muslim, but never his name unless it includes Hussein.
Even More Speech Codes: Deadnaming trannies.
Trigger warnings: Alex Jones made a career out of getting triggered and losing his ----.
Grievance Culture: Immigration Policy. NATO. Drain The Swamp. Media so unfair!

#208 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-12 12:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Postmodernity is an insipid philosophy that, summed up, postulates ALL truths are subjective."

I think you have postmodernism confused with Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

The concepts underpinning postmodernism can be traced back at least as far as The Enlightenment, and being "Thrice Removed" from reality

Wait, that wasn't The Enlightenment, that was freaking Aristotle.

You are scared of Aristotle.

You poor, little, man.

#209 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-12 12:59 AM | Reply

58% of republicans are bad for US

#210 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-07-12 09:35 AM | Reply

"58% of republicans are bad for US"

That's harsh. I think if we rolled back deregulation of the news media we'd see improvement. We shouldn't be allowing 6 or 7 corporations to own the vast majority of our media and use it to propagandize for the benefit of the 1%. The whole healthcare debate is crazy, are we really going to take away healthcare for millions and reduce the actual coverage for most of ourselves just to reward the richest few percent with huge tax cuts? This couldn't happen with a real free press but we don't have that any more, we have a press not all that much more free than Russia. Net neutrality anyone? They're getting ready to take that away while our so called "free press" doesn't even report on it.

#211 | Posted by danni at 2017-07-12 09:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

fox news melted your brain. YOu look like a fool repeating their propaganda.

#198 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-07-11 07:21 PM | Reply

I don't watch fox news so first off you're just one more little lying weasel...

second, your hate filled rants are not s reply to anything...

should have done this yesterday.....

bai bai bai

#212 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-12 11:02 AM | Reply

Apparently 58% of Republicans could not -------- in college.

#213 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-07-12 11:49 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

You people truly are sick.

Everyone knows colleges are liberal. They are no longer there to help you get ready to go work in the real world. They are only there now to shape how you are supposed to look at the world.. And most of the time, they are teaching liberal ideologies.

And social justice is a bunch of BS.

No one here or alive was a slave. Society owes no one anything. Social justice is just a way to keep the victimization culture going without end. Smart people know this.

People can see that there will be no end to the race baiting and separation that the left is doing to America. Every white person could be as non-racial as possible, the democrats and progressives still would say there's racism. It will never end. And it will be the end of our nation.

Having people become one and be without racism would not do the democrats well. That's why there will always be a democrat person to sell the social justice scam.

#214 | Posted by boaz at 2017-07-12 03:29 PM | Reply

"And social justice is a bunch of BS.
No one here or alive was a slave. Society owes no one anything. Social justice is just a way to keep the victimization culture going without end. Smart people know this."

The social and economic consequences of centuries of slavery and centuries more of institutional racism did not just go away. Nor did racism itself. You see examples every day.

Teaching people about that is not brainwashing... one could say it is the reverse.

#215 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-12 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Everyone knows colleges are liberal. They are no longer there to help you get ready to go work in the real world. They are only there now to shape how you are supposed to look at the world.. And most of the time, they are teaching liberal ideologies.

Of course they are. Liberals want to progress not regress like conservatives

And social justice is a bunch of BS.

No one here or alive was a slave. Society owes no one anything. Social justice is just a way to keep the victimization culture going without end. Smart people know this.

You conveniently forget social justice is what black folks did in the 50's and 60's to advance equal rights. You really need schooled on your history

People can see that there will be no end to the race baiting and separation that the left is doing to America. Every white person could be as non-racial as possible, the democrats and progressives still would say there's racism. It will never end. And it will be the end of our nation.

Not until racists stop being racists will there never be an end to racism.

Having people become one and be without racism would not do the democrats well. That's why there will always be a democrat person to sell the social justice scam.

Get educated upon the subject matter. You are sorely lacking in that area

Posted by boaz at 2017-07-12 03:29 PM | Reply

#216 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-07-12 03:49 PM | Reply

It probably sounds racist but if it wasn't for social justice, Boaz, you would still be singing field spirituals under the active whip of some white slave master. I agree at times social justice might go too far, but, for the most part, it's a needed commodity in the world-- if anything, to keep those who would abuse their positions of power and authority and limit them to the freedom of proffering racist, bigoted and authoritarian thoughts and words without letting those same liberties spill over into social mores, actions or laws.

#217 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-07-12 03:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Everyone knows colleges are liberal."

Which is probably why they don't call it a degree in Conservative Arts.

#218 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-12 03:53 PM | Reply

#214 | POSTED BY BOAZ
"You people truly are sick."
"Everyone knows..."
"Society owes no one anything."
"Smart people know this."
"People can see..."
"It will never end."
"the social justice scam."

You're mighty big on making statements.
Not so much on making arguments. That would take effort.

#219 | Posted by TheTom at 2017-07-12 03:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Liberal in liberal arts come from the opposite of servile, which means mechanical (involving manual labour).
The meaning of "liberal arts" (artes liberales) comes from the 14th century. Long LONG before any liberal politics sprung out (mostly in the 19th century iirc)

It has nothing to do with the political tilt of the college. You can get a Bachelor of Liberal Arts degree from hyper-conservative Oral Roberts University

#220 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-07-12 04:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Of course they are. Liberals want to progress not regress like conservatives

#216 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-07-12 03:49

banning free speech and clubs etc of "the wrong" politics is "progress ?"

interesting....

#221 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-12 06:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Everyone knows colleges are liberal."

Which is probably why they don't call it a degree in Conservative Arts.

#218 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-07-12 03:53

I got the little joke, even if others didn't.

#222 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-12 06:13 PM | Reply

and yes.....blocking speeches on campus from Coulter and such is PRECISELY THAT>....BANNING free speech

#223 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2017-07-12 06:14 PM | Reply

and yes.....blocking speeches on campus from Coulter and such is PRECISELY THAT>....BANNING free speech

#223 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2017-07-12 06:14 PM | FLAG:

Complete nonsense.

#224 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-12 06:58 PM | Reply

Clown, then why do Colleges require students take the GE classes?

#225 | Posted by Maverick at 2017-07-12 08:08 PM | Reply

"College isn't for basics. The GEs (general education classes) are mainly math and English. Otherwise students choose which classes to take.

It's college, a time to specialize. Basics. Such as American History should have been taught in high schools."

Clownshack

I understand what you are saying, but our HS are not teaching basics

#226 | Posted by Maverick at 2017-07-12 08:12 PM | Reply

"Everyone knows colleges are liberal. They are no longer there to help you get ready to go work in the real world."

Depends. Do office jobs count as the real world?
Or do those only count as the real world when you did 20 years in the army first, and had the army pay for your college?

#227 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-12 11:56 PM | Reply

I understand what you are saying, but our HS are not teaching basics

I understand what you're saying.

And the argument to what I'm going to post will be the education system gets a lot of money which gets eaten up by administrators.

But.

Schools themselves are underfunded. Some drastically so. Teachers are getting paid between 48k - 78k a year. And you're not always getting the best and brightest applying. Don't get me wrong. I know some magnificent, dedicated teachers who go out of their way to connect with their students and actually try and teach. But that's unfortunately not always the case.

The institutions where children go to learn how to compete within the world of tomorrow's global economy, needs to be invested in. Not seen as a political factory. Or an evil organization. Or an anti religious movement. In most cases. The teachers live in the community they teach in. And probably have the same beliefs as those around them.

#228 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-07-13 05:29 AM | Reply

#217 | Posted by pumpkinhead

I don't agree. I understand what happened in the past. But blacks have been given equal rights. That fight is over. To continually act like it's still slave days is wrong and not getting the black community anywhere.

I cant explain it, but I know the current state of civil rights is wrong and is dong more harm to blacks and the fabric of this nation than ever before.

#229 | Posted by boaz at 2017-07-13 01:40 PM | Reply

"But blacks have been given equal rights"

Mighty white of us!

#230 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-13 01:46 PM | Reply

"To continually act like it's still slave days"

Who exactly is doing this?
I am not aware of this modern day Underground Railroad.
It must be sooo underground I haven't heard of it yet!

#231 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-13 01:48 PM | Reply

There is a difference between claiming something is "racism" and identifying "racial behavioral norms". Because, to be clear, there are differing behavioral norms among different groups of people, especially when younger and more prone to the herd mentality.

#232 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-07-13 01:49 PM | Reply

"I don't agree. I understand what happened in the past. But blacks have been given equal rights. That fight is over."

Nominally, maybe. But people of color still aren't treated the same, by employers, by police. And the community as a whole is still in bad shape.

#233 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-13 02:49 PM | Reply

There is a difference between claiming something is "racism" and identifying "racial behavioral norms". Because, to be clear, there are differing behavioral norms among different groups of people, especially when younger and more prone to the herd mentality.

#232 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-07-13 01:49 PM | FLAG:

Can you give an example of the distinction you are trying to make here? Do you just mean that saying "members of group x tend to behave in such and such a way" isn't necessarily racist?

#234 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-13 02:51 PM | Reply

"I don't agree. I understand what happened in the past. But blacks have been given equal rights. That fight is over."

Yeah, and we continue to lose more often than not: everydayfeminism.com

#235 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-07-13 02:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But people of color still aren't treated the same, by employers, by police. And the community as a whole is still in bad shape.

That is an issue of culture and how certain segments of the race act. Only the race can deal with that.

#236 | Posted by boaz at 2017-07-13 04:33 PM | Reply

*That is an issue of culture"

It's just as much an issue of police culture as it is black culture.

Boaz what is your take on Philando Castile?

#237 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-07-13 04:52 PM | Reply

That is an issue of culture and how certain segments of the race act. Only the race can deal with that.

#236 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-07-13 04:33 PM | FLAG:

That is just not a fair assessment. Again, a history of discrimination doesn't just go away.

#238 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-07-13 04:57 PM | Reply

That is an issue of culture and how certain segments of the race act. Only the race can deal with that.

Posted by boaz at 2017-07-13 04:33 PM | Reply

www.bet.com

OOPSIE DAISY You're so busted.

#239 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-07-13 05:40 PM | Reply

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