Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 14, 2017

Rep. Steve Scalise was shot Wednesday morning in Alexandria, Virginia, a House colleague told CNN, in what sources are calling an apparent "deliberate attack." The shooting took place at a practice for the GOP congressional baseball team. ... "The gun was a semiautomatic," [Rep. Mo] Brooks said, adding that he was sure it was a rifle but unsure what kind. "It continued to fire at different people. You can imagine, all the people on the field scatter."

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"Rep. Mo Brooks told CNN he was on deck at a practice for the congressional baseball team when the shooting occurred. Scalise, a member of the House Republican leadership as the majority whip, appeared to have been shot in the hip and it appeared two Capitol Hill police agents were shot, Brooks added."

#1 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 08:31 AM | Reply

Jump To Conclusions!

I'm going with right-winger mad that Republicans aren't supporting Trump. Republicans will now move to enact gun control on modern sport carbines.

#2 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 08:34 AM | Reply

"Republicans will now move to enact gun control..."

Oh look! Oinkers flying!!!

#3 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 08:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 3 | Newsworthy 1

Republicans will now move to enact gun control on modern sport carbines.

You're kidding, right? The Republican solution is always more guns.

#4 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 08:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

tHe ReVOlushUN hAS BegUN.

- Babbles.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2017-06-14 08:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

You're kidding, right?

#4 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-06-14 08:57 AM | FLAG:

I'm going to have to start tagging things

#6 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 08:59 AM | Reply

with [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 08:59 AM | Reply

In a site similar to this but politically reversed to being right wing, the first subject is "did the left just fire the first shot?" ("in the new civil war" would be the remaining context to that)

#8 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 09:00 AM | Reply

"The Republican solution is always more guns."

Damn straight. Why wasn't that second baseman packing???

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 09:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Will Alex Jones make up some wild stories about this event???

#10 | Posted by zelkova at 2017-06-14 09:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

All baseball players are packing. They make adjustments all game.

#11 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 09:04 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

They brought armed security with them, that returned fire on their behalf, wounding the gunman who was then arrested and transported to a hospital.

#12 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 09:06 AM | Reply

First they stage blood soaked fantasies about killing the president.
Now this.

#13 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2017-06-14 09:06 AM | Reply

Baseball is over-rated as a sport. Golf is a cleaner activity. Why, you even get to wash your balls.
~ Don Trump

#14 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-06-14 09:08 AM | Reply

#13 Obviously came to the DR straight from Infowars....or was that [sarcasm] as well?

#15 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-06-14 09:10 AM | Reply

So far, reports are claiming the shooter's a white male, middle aged and heavy.

I'm going to Rush to Judgment [tm] and predict this is a laid-off government worker.

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 09:10 AM | Reply

#16

Ahhh, so my R2J[tm] headline is: The Swamp Strikes Back

#17 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-06-14 09:14 AM | Reply

My guess is that it was someone whose background will superficially support my chosen ideology.

Am I doing this right?

#18 | Posted by sully at 2017-06-14 09:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 4 | Newsworthy 1

Hate and political division leads to shootings. Expect more to come.

And enjoy!

#19 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 09:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Jeez. No matter what the shooter's motivation and ideology, he's first and foremost an armed lunatic whose actions were not justified. But his ideology will inevitably take a big hit as we (Drudgies and Americans in general) scramble to immediately stake out our usual snarky positions on the left/right spectrum.

#20 | Posted by cbob at 2017-06-14 09:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

First they stage blood soaked fantasies about killing the president.
Now this.
#13 | POSTED BY HANOVERFIST AT 2017-06-14 09:06 AM | REPLY: SHORT TERM MEMORY DISORDER

#21 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-06-14 09:34 AM | Reply

My prayers go out to the victims.

#22 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-06-14 09:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

An event like this is sure to disrupt the timing of their baseball swings. Plus, going forward, every time someone hits the ball they are gonna have to resist the urge to duck and cover. Prayers and crackerjacks for the recovery of their baseball acumen.

Anyway, if it is a fat white guy who opened fire, it is likely that it is some sort of disgruntled former baseball manager, as many baseball managers are fat white guys. Perhaps someone was stealing a base when it happened. Such a theft could be misconstrued by a crazy dude with a rifle.

#23 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 09:40 AM | Reply

I'm going to Rush to Judgment [tm] and predict this is a laid-off government worker.

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06

My rush to judgment is someone afraid of losing health care.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 09:40 AM | Reply

So far, reports are claiming the shooter's a white male, middle aged and heavy.

I'm going to Rush to Judgment [tm] and predict this is a laid-off government worker.

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 09:10 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

That or Michael Moore flipped the ---- out.

#25 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-06-14 09:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Resist!!!

#26 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 09:41 AM | Reply

That or Michael Moore flipped the ---- out.
#25 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS AT 2017-06-14 09:40 AM | FLAG: Don't make me laugh during a tragedy!!!!

#27 | Posted by bocaink at 2017-06-14 09:43 AM | Reply

Clearly it's Sara Palins fault and all conservatives are responsible for making dems angry! Or was it a Russian shooter??

There will be hundreds of threads and thousands of posts blaming Palin. Of course, no jokes are out of line. Looking forward to all the soul searching and self evaluation the left is going to evolve thru as they question what 'tone' they've set with their rhetoric

#28 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 09:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ex gay lover perhaps????

#29 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-06-14 09:51 AM | Reply

Thank heavens for armed police, this could have been much worse. Also now being reported that the gunman was aiming at everyone not just the GOP ball players. Thoughts and prayers to all involved I don't care what party the person belonged to, I wish them all a speedy recovery.

#30 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2017-06-14 09:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dem baseball team prays for GOP colleagues after shooting

thehill.com

Somber photo.

#31 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 09:53 AM | Reply

Gunman asked, "Are those Republicans or Democrats out there"?

Found out it was Republicans, opened fire.

#32 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 09:54 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Looking forward to all the soul searching and self evaluation the left is going to evolve thru as they question what 'tone' they've set with their rhetoric

#28 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 09:48 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

Rush to judgment: These guys were shot by a Republican.

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 09:55 AM | Reply

There will be hundreds of threads and thousands of posts blaming Palin. Of course, no jokes are out of line. Looking forward to all the soul searching and self evaluation the left is going to evolve thru as they question what 'tone' they've set with their rhetoric.

Since Dems aren't even human, it's doubtful they will their tone will be sincere. Am I right?

#34 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 09:57 AM | Reply

Right like this site doesn't rush to judgements!!!!

Shooter heard your LSM dog whistles and acted accordingly. To not take responsibility for the very devisive tone, is well, typically of hypocrites. I'm sure you forget blaming gabby Giffords shooting on conservatives.

#35 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 09:57 AM | Reply

"Thank heavens for armed police, this could have been much worse"

And thank heavens for the constant stream of well-armed psychos who do their part to support the expansion of the military industrial complex and the increasing militarization of our domestic LEOs!! As we all, know it could have been much worse, but never, never, EVER could have been much better!

#36 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 09:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump, it seemed, was pointing to Wednesday's shooting as proof he and his father's allies were absolutely right to take issue with depictions "glorifying the assassination of our president."

#37 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 09:57 AM | Reply

So far, reports are claiming the shooter's a white male, middle aged and heavy.
-RCade
+++++++++

That description (of the shooter) profiles out as a Teajadist.
Where's the good guy with a gun that would have PREVENTED this???

Congrats Teajadists, you made this!!!!

#38 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-06-14 09:57 AM | Reply

Gunman asked, "Are those Republicans or Democrats out there"?
Found out it was Republicans, opened fire.

You mean he took his gun to the field without knowing who was playing?

#39 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 09:58 AM | Reply

Trump, it seemed, was pointing to Wednesday's shooting as proof he and his father's allies were absolutely right to take issue with depictions "glorifying the assassination of our president."

#37 | Posted by boaz

What repressive steps do you think he'll take to remedy the matter?

#40 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:00 AM | Reply

"Found out it was Republicans, opened fire."

He musta had $$$ on the Democrats to win that baseball game.

#41 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:00 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Congrats Teajadists, you made this!!!!

Odds are, this person is a democrat..

#42 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 10:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#37 Depictions glorifying the of assassinating the president or a presidential candadite are never right. Doesn't matter if the person is a D or R, whether it is George Bush, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump.

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:03 AM | Reply

Odds are, this person is a democrat..

#42 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06

Odds are he is mentally ill and a gun nut.

#44 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What repressive steps do you think he'll take to remedy the matter?"

My guess is that he'll ban fat, white, middle-aged, Democrat Muslims from all future baseball games.

#45 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:05 AM | Reply

What interested both my wife and I this morning is that Ryan and others said they heard the shots and at first thought nothing of them, because they live in the "South". (The South? Kentucky?).

I have no earthly idea what they are talking about or why they might say that.

#46 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:06 AM | Reply

#44

Agreed.

Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination.

#47 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 10:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 3

#26 "Resist!!!"

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump Jun 13

2 million more people just dropped out of ObamaCare. It is in a death spiral. Obstructionist Democrats gave up, have no answer = resist!

#48 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:08 AM | Reply

#47

I'll stick with someone who has a potentially terminal disease who's pissed about health care.

#49 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

44 Jared loughner was a mentally ill left wing gun nut, didn't stop YOU ZED from blaming conservatives for setting the tone that made him do it. Do you feel morally vindicated today by forgetting what you said yesterday?

Anyway next thing you'll say is...... he was stealing second so he deserved it. Should be an enjoyable few days watching hypocrisy in motion

#50 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 10:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Russians are white.

Coincidence?

#51 | Posted by Sully at 2017-06-14 10:09 AM | Reply

"Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination."

Good ol' Boaz, doing his part to fit the narrative into his own shallow and limited worldview.

#52 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen.

But seriously, I hope Scalise and the officers are okay.

#53 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 10:10 AM | Reply

"Russians are white.
Coincidence?
"

I hear they also have a lot of guns. But the thing that confuses me is that they aren't much into baseball. I guess the hockey season had ended so they had to make do with what was available...

#54 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:11 AM | Reply

#47 Funny how you were silent over these...

addictinginfo.addictinginfoent.netdna-cdn.com

tinuonline.com

extras.mnginteractive.com

theweek.com

Save your fauxrage.

#55 | Posted by 726 at 2017-06-14 10:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#47 Too much talk of violence and 2nd amendment remedies:

Trump's long dalliance with violent rhetoric

Beyond his own incendiary comments, he's done little to mute loose talk of killing Clinton and Obama.

And refrains of "hang the bitch" and "kill the bitch" have grown increasingly common at Trump rallies.

Even before Trump's Tuesday remark that "Second Amendment people" might stop Hillary Clinton's Supreme Court appointments, his associates and supporters had repeatedly called for violence against Clinton and Obama, while right-wing leaders and militia groups that support Trump speak of an armed response to federal gun control efforts.

www.politico.com

#56 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen.

Shooters will always have the element of surprise.

It's being said the Capitol Hill police and the congressman's personal security detail stopped this from becoming a massacre.

#57 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 10:12 AM | Reply

Clearly, baseball is at fault. Ban baseball!

#58 | Posted by catdog at 2017-06-14 10:13 AM | Reply

Jared loughner was a mentally ill left wing gun nut,

#50 | Posted by DavetheWave

Yes, Dear. There are left-wing gun nuts. I've met them.

Let me clue you in: Even if you staged an original version of "Julius Caesar", people will make the connection to Trump. That's because William was a great writer, and people like Donald we have with us always.

#59 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:13 AM | Reply

I hear they also have a lot of guns. But the thing that confuses me is that they aren't much into baseball. I guess the hockey season had ended so they had to make do with what was available...

#54 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

You could say they hate baseball, no? And, Russians are sometimes fat.

This is shaping up quickly.

#60 | Posted by Sully at 2017-06-14 10:13 AM | Reply

"Jared loughner was a mentally ill left wing gun nut"

At one point, Loughner refers disparagingly to "currency that's not backed by gold or silver." The idea that silver and gold are the only "constitutional" money is widespread in the antigovernment "Patriot" movement that produced so much violence in the 1990s. It's linked to the core Patriot theory that the Federal Reserve is actually a private corporation run for the benefit of unnamed international bankers. So-called Patriots say paper money -- what they refer to with a sneer as "Federal Reserve notes" -- is not lawful. At another, Loughner makes extraordinarily obscure comments about language and grammar, suggesting that the government engages in "mind control on the people by controlling grammar." That's not the kind of idea that's very common out there, even on the Internet. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that Loughner is taking ideas from Patriot conspiracy theorist David Wynn Miller of Milwaukee. Miller claims that the government uses grammar to "enslave" Americans and offers up his truly weird "Truth-language" as an antidote. For example, he says that if you add colons and hyphens to your name in a certain way, you are no longer taxable. Miller may be mad as a hatter, but he has a real following on the right. Loughner talks about how you "can't trust the government" and someone burns a U.S. flag in one of his videos. Although certain right-wing websites are already using that (and his listing of The Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books) to claim that Loughner was a "left-winger," that does not strike me as true. The main enemy of the Patriot movement is certainly the federal government. And so-called Patriots have certainly engaged in acts like burning the flag. Finally, I think Loughner's reading list, although it included children's books and a few classics, had an underlying theme -- the individual versus the totalitarian state. Certainly, that's the explicit central theme of Ayn Rand's We the Living and Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm, among others. I would argue that that's the way Loughlin seems to be reading The Communist Manifesto and Hitler's Mein Kampf -- as variants of a kind of generalized "smash the state" attitude. Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, which does similar work to that of Hatewatch, points out in a post earlier today that Loughner also makes a reference to a "second American constitution." As Chip notes, that is commonly understood to refer to the Reconstruction amendments that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship, among other things. Chip says that "raises the question of a possible racist and anti-immigrant tie" in the Arizona shooting. On top of that, Fox News is reporting on an internal Department of Homeland Security message suggesting some tie between Loughner and American Renaissance, a kind of white-collar racist group.

www.alternet.org

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 10:14 AM | Reply

Let's take a moment to consider the differences between Trump and Caesar. Like, Caesar was a great man.

#62 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:19 AM | Reply

"It's being said the Capitol Hill police and the congressman's personal security detail stopped this from becoming a massacre."

Just listened to an eye witness, no the Capitol Hill police nor the security detail prevented a massacre, the shooters inability to aim his gun did. Had he be a better shooter it would have been a terrible massacre. According to the witness this went on from between 5 and 10 minutes and dozens or even hundreds of rounds were fired. It is the grace of God that this shooter was thankfully incompetent.

#63 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 10:20 AM | Reply

#47 Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination.

Where was your outrage then:

No election in history recorded so much talk of doing real or figurative harm to a candidate, mainly but not solely Hillary Clinton. After Donald Trump began calling her a criminal and "crooked Hillary," the frequent yells at rallies became chants, "Hang the bitch." The Republican convention and Trump rallies broke into relentless chants of "Lock her up." Delegates and Trump advisers at the convention called for her to be shot by a firing squad or hanged and her body draped on the National Mall. Trump called the man who urged that Clinton be hanged "my favorite vet, the king!" The media recorded frequent screams of "Kill the bitch."

T-shirts and signs emblazoned with "Trump that Bitch" and occasionally "Kill the Bitch" blossomed at Trump and Mike Pence rallies and on the streets. Variations of the violent themes appeared on homemade and campaign signs in rural Arkansas and across the land. With no words by Clinton to support him, Trump said Clinton planned to abolish the Second Amendment and take people's guns and that, if she was elected, the only way to stop her was for gun owners to take matters into their own hands.

www.arktimes.com

#64 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Lol Danforth. Pretending you yourself didn't blame Palin for Giffords shooting is hysterical.

#65 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 10:21 AM | Reply

"Pretending you yourself didn't blame Palin for Giffords shooting is hysterical."

Feel free to link.

#66 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 10:22 AM | Reply

Danni too. Will you all know take back your attaching direct blame to Palin? How's looking in a mirror going for you today?

#67 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 10:23 AM | Reply

"Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination."

Yeah Boaz, and when they staged the exact same play with a tall black "Caesar" I remember your objections....oh wait....no I don't because you never did.

#68 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 10:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination."

Yeah Boaz, and when they staged the exact same play with a tall black "Caesar" I remember your objections....oh wait....no I don't because you never did.

#69 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 10:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen.
But seriously, I hope Scalise and the officers are okay.

#53 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-06-14 10:10 AM | FLAG:

And I have been told over and over again that because of strict gun laws in Chicago and London that those cities are violence free.

#70 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-06-14 10:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lol you know we can't link, why would you pretend we can?

#71 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 10:25 AM | Reply

In that case, I'll simply call you a liar.

I know I never claimed Palin had anything to do with it, because I never believed Palin had anything to do with it.

Everything else is merely your fevered dreams.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 10:26 AM | Reply

#70 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-

Most potential victims, when armed, won't shoot. It's human nature.

#73 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 10:27 AM | Reply

"Yeah Boaz, and when they staged the exact same play with a tall black "Caesar" I remember your objections....oh wait....no I don't because you never did." - DANNI

Again Danni, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Was an article about that posted on DR? If so prove it, if not STFU.

#74 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-06-14 10:38 AM | Reply

Most potential victims, when armed, won't shoot. It's human nature.

But those that will shoot, save lives.

#75 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 10:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Most potential shooters, when surrounded by the armed, won't shoot. It's human nature.

#76 | Posted by visitor_ at 2017-06-14 10:39 AM | Reply

I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen.
But seriously, I hope Scalise and the officers are okay.
#53 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-06-14 10:10 AM | FLAG:
And I have been told over and over again that because of strict gun laws in Chicago and London that those cities are violence free.
#70 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

No, you haven't. No one has EVER said that.

London certainly has less violence than US cities. Unfortunately for Chicago, you can get guns easily just outside city limits.

Why do you lie with every post?

#77 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 10:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" if the shooter is revealed to be a dem, how do we keep this out of the news and play it down as much as possible?"

2. "if the shooter is revealed to be Republican voter, how do we turn this into a national event without end, milk it for all it's worth, encourage marches for gun control, and find a new city to burn down?"

#78 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 10:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen."

By Who????

Who has said shooting would NEVER happen if everyone was armed. I have heard people say the best way to stop a bad man with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun. That's what ended this particular situation.

#79 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-06-14 10:40 AM | Reply

"Rep. Steve Scalise of Louisiana, a true friend and patriot, was badly injured but will fully recover. Our thoughts and prayers are with him.""

Former lover David Duke is rushing to the hospital as I write this....

#80 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 10:40 AM | Reply

The shooter was likely a Democrat. It doesn't mean anything in the end, because he was probably mentally ill as well. I.e., his loading up a gun and shooting at Republicans had more to do with brain chemistry than ideology.

But anyone with a memory should remember Palin being blamed for Loughner because her confessional map had targets on it, and look back at how utterly stupid the game of blaming pols for nut jobs coming unhinged is.

#81 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Some of the witnesses said they weren't sure if some of the shooters were good guys or bad guys. I think it was Flake who said he called out, "Are you friendly?" If the good guys were wearing uniforms, that helps. Unless the bad guys decide to wear them to as a disguise, which wasn't the case here.

#82 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:43 AM | Reply

Baseball is over-rated as a sport. Golf is a cleaner activity. Why, you even get to wash your balls.
~ Don Trump

#14 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

A golf course is a perfectly good waste of a firing range !

#83 | Posted by ghoti at 2017-06-14 10:45 AM | Reply

Maybe the shooter will be an Independent or someone who never votes or someone who hates all politicians.

#84 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:45 AM | Reply

*her confessional map

Damn phone, but also next porn title.

#85 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 10:46 AM | Reply

But anyone with a memory should remember Palin being blamed for Loughner because her confessional map had targets on it,

TY for the memory jolt. When I first saw Palin's name mentioned I honestly couldn't understand why she was being brought up.

#86 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:47 AM | Reply

It may sound hard hearted, but karma's a bitch. Their ridiculous stance on gun control, which is counter to about 80% of voters built this.

#87 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2017-06-14 10:48 AM | Reply

"But anyone with a memory should remember Palin being blamed for Loughner because her confessional map had targets on it, and look back at how utterly stupid the game of blaming pols for nut jobs coming unhinged is."

and further....it's a complete waste of time.

the gun control crowd didn't gain an inch of ground by blaming Palin. Maybe they surrendered ground for all I know.

The wedge issue of guns doesn't move based on events like this even if you can pin an ideology or specifically a political party on the shooter.

but that doesn't stop folks from trying each time something like this happens.

My advice? move on and find an issue that you can move people on. Guns is not one of them.....at least not by using events like this to gain ground.

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-14 10:48 AM | Reply

News reports are it was an actual M4 carbine, which is everything gun control advocates could wish for in regards to extensive background checks.

#89 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 10:49 AM | Reply

" Their ridiculous stance on gun control, which is counter to about 80% of voters built this."

People like Boaz built this. He dreams of a civil war in an apocalyptic future where he can run wild stealing gasoline and shooting liberals.

#90 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 10:51 AM | Reply

It may sound hard hearted, but karma's a bitch. Their ridiculous stance on gun control, which is counter to about 80% of voters built this.
#87 | POSTED BY _GUNSLINGER_
---

I.e. the gun grabber version of "she was asking for it."

#91 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 10:52 AM | Reply

"I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen."
By Who????
Who has said shooting would NEVER happen if everyone was armed. I have heard people say the best way to stop a bad man with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun. That's what ended this particular situation.

#79 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOTT

DR Conservatives. Over and over and over again.

#92 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 10:52 AM | Reply

44 Jared loughner was a mentally ill left wing gun nut, didn't stop YOU ZED from blaming conservatives for setting the tone that made him do it. Do you feel morally vindicated today by forgetting what you said yesterday?
Anyway next thing you'll say is...... he was stealing second so he deserved it. Should be an enjoyable few days watching hypocrisy in motion

#50 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE AT 2017-06-14 10:08 AM | FLAG:

The tone of Loughner's online writings and videos from immediately before the attack were described by The Guardian as "almost exclusively conservative and anti-government, with echoes of the populist campaigning of the Tea Party movement
- wiki referring to the guardian

#93 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-06-14 10:53 AM | Reply

"if the shooter is revealed to be Republican voter, how do we turn this into a national event without end, milk it for all it's worth, encourage marches for gun control, and find a new city to burn down?"

Too rich. First you lie about something I'd never posted, they you accuse others of trying to politicize the incident.

You can't make this shiite up.

#94 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 10:53 AM | Reply

So what's the big deal? It's 'Murica and just another mass shooting on another day. We've been told that there's nothing to be done about it and it doesn't really matter who the specific set of victims are.

#95 | Posted by Reagan58 at 2017-06-14 10:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Should be an enjoyable few days watching hypocrisy in motion"

My irony meter just pegged.

#96 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 10:54 AM | Reply

The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to not let bad guys get guns.

After the bad guy starts shooting no amount of good guys with guns can prevent him from shooting

#97 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 10:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The wedge issue of guns doesn't move based on events like this even if you can pin an ideology or specifically a political party on the shooter.

It can sometimes move individuals to action, for example, Sarah Brady, James Brady's wife. The Brady bill was the result:

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Pub.L. 103–159, 107 Stat. 1536, enacted November 30, 1993), often referred to as the Brady Act or the Brady Bill,[1][2] is an Act of the United States Congress that mandated federal background checks on firearm purchasers in the United States, and imposed a five-day waiting period on purchases, until the NICS system was implemented in 1998.

en.wikipedia.org

#98 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 10:55 AM | Reply


Shooter identified by law enforcement officials as James T. Hodgkinson
www.washingtonpost.com

...The shooter at the GOP congressional baseball practice this morning is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to law enforcement officials. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show....

#99 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-06-14 10:56 AM | Reply

Q:How do you tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun?

A: The coroner finds a CCW permit in his wallet AFTER the police kill him

#100 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 10:57 AM | Reply

Home inspection? Judging by his poor accuracy and the use of an M4, I was about to go with "former police officer"

#101 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 10:58 AM | Reply

A liberal from Illinois. Who would of guessed?
twitter.com

#102 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-06-14 10:59 AM | Reply

98

great point. that event provided the spark necessary to pass that bill.

and I suppose some other events like Columbine have pushed some things along as well.

But it was the event.....not the political ideology nor the attachment to a particular political party or specific politician....on the part of the shooter(s) that moved things along.

#103 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-14 10:59 AM | Reply

The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to not let bad guys get guns.
After the bad guy starts shooting no amount of good guys with guns can prevent him from shooting

#97 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2017-06-14 10:54 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

In this case, he was stopped by shooting him, which prevented him for shooting further.

"The best way to stop a drug addict is to not let drug addicts get drugs." Laughably impossible.

#104 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 10:59 AM | Reply

"I don't understand. There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen."
By Who????

"DR Conservatives. Over and over and over again." - Sycophant

Then I challenge you like I have Danni, PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Show me the threads where people have said things like this would NEVER happen.

#105 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-06-14 11:00 AM | Reply

Well, it seems it's time to disarm the Bernie supporters and block their immigration and travel.

#106 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:01 AM | Reply

Rush to Judgement: A gold-star dad waiving a tiny constitution

#107 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-06-14 11:02 AM | Reply

Politics has always been violent. It's a theater in which many in the crowd secretly desire to be up on the stage. Occasionally a John Wilkes Booth makes his way past the turnstiles...

#108 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 11:04 AM | Reply

"My prayers go out to the victims." - #22 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-06-14 09:35 AM

Wouldn't a better use of your time be to pray that events like this don't happen in the first place?

#109 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:05 AM | Reply

Yeah Boaz, and when they staged the exact same play with a tall black "Caesar" I remember your objections....oh wait....no I don't because you never did.
#68 | POSTED BY DANNI

Did you object to tall black "Caesar" AND Trump beheading?

#110 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-06-14 11:05 AM | Reply

"Well, it seems it's time to disarm the Bernie supporters and block their immigration and travel."

Sounds like he's to the left of Bernie:

James Hodgkinson‏ @JTHInspections

Ed
Schultz@edshow, I would Like to Know why Bernie Topped Tax Code at 52% & $10Mil. I recomm. 70% at $50Mil.

#111 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:06 AM | Reply

Kathy griffin must be widely supportive!!

#112 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 11:07 AM | Reply

Right wing fantasy:

Bad guy with gun draws his weapon and good guys with guns draw on him and take him down.

Reality:

Nobody knows the bad guy with a gun exists until he starts shooting. Good guy is killed when he reaches for his weapon. OR good guy draws his weapon and while trying to get a shot is killed by the police arriving on the scene of an active shooter and seeing a man with a gun. Then maybe a police officer gets killed because they think they got their man and aren't expecting the real shooter.

#113 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 11:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Shooter refers a few times to:

BoldProgressives.org @BoldProgressive

Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC). Nearly 1 million members and growing. We support bold candidates and organize for progressive priorities.

#114 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:11 AM | Reply

Wouldn't a better use of your time be to pray that events like this don't happen in the first place?

#109 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2017-06-14 11:05 AM | REPLY

One might just conclude that prayer generally is not a good use of one's time.

#115 | Posted by anton at 2017-06-14 11:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Reality:

#113 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2017-06-14 11:07 AM | FLAG:

Cite the instances where it happened, or it's just your fantasy.

#116 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:11 AM | Reply

#113,

Stupid post.

Left wing Twitter is going nuts praising the shooter..

I told you guys, a civil war is coming..

news.grabien.com

#117 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 11:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Was an article about that posted on DR? If so prove it, if not STFU."

"Uproar over Trump-themed 'Julius Caesar,' but none for Obama version at Guthrie 5 years ago"

www.startribune.com

Stuff happens that isn't posted here on Drudge Boaz, like it or not. It's still real.

#118 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:12 AM | Reply

and I specifically mean the ones where police killed CHL holders acting in self-defense while hunting an "Active Shooter".

#119 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:12 AM | Reply

There was a lot of complaint about a rodeo performer with an Obama mask. It's no different than the Caeser scene, right?

#120 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 11:12 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

This is just sad. Seeds sown by Leftist resist rhetoric, so short sighted to think that the Right needs to fight with a hand tied behind its back as the US has done on the world stage for so long. You drew first blood (Rambo). Congrats.

#121 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 11:12 AM | Reply

My guess is that it was someone whose background will superficially support my chosen ideology. Am I doing this right?

No. The object of Rush to Judgment is to be proven correct, not just parrot the answer that best suits your politics.

#122 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:14 AM | Reply

Bernie being asked to respond:

BASED-Rhys‏ @itsmealexand3of 5m
5 minutes ago

Replying to @JTHInspections @SenSanders
@SenSanders This murderer was a supporter, do you disavow? @Cernovich

#123 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:14 AM | Reply

Just like we disarmed the right wingers an white supremacists after Dylan Roof shot up a black church!

Oh, wait.....

#124 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Left wing Twitter is going nuts praising the shooter.."

Horse crap, you don't have any idea who those people are and it would certainly not be a first for right wingers to pretend to be left wingers just to create fake news. Even pretending that you honestly believe this crap really just speaks very poorly about YOU! You are helping to promote fake news.

#125 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The object of Rush to Judgment is to be proven correct,"

or look really stupid....which is really what happens either way.

#126 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-14 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"as the US has done on the world stage for so long."

Yeah, and the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and Afghanis are just imaginary. You're dishonest with yourself because you just can't deal with the truth.

#127 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:17 AM | Reply

Go to his face book page the guy is a left wing anti Trump protestor promising action

#128 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 11:17 AM | Reply

Now that the show is on the other foot righties will have a field day with this.

Because they're classless morons.

#129 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 11:17 AM | Reply

"This is just sad. Seeds sown by Leftist resist rhetoric, so short sighted to think that the Right needs to fight with a hand tied behind its back as the US has done on the world stage for so long. You drew first blood (Rambo). Congrats."

What are you suggesting? That a 68 year old progressive is representative of the whole Left and should be taken as an act of war against everyone on the Right? If so, that's crazy talk right there.

#130 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:17 AM | Reply

Gunman asked, "Are those Republicans or Democrats out there"?

A lot of stuff spread in early reports on an incident like this turns out to be false.

I predict this didn't happen. A woman saw the gunman approaching the field with his weapons out, went into a building and called 911. That's why the police got there within 3 minutes.

If he had the gun(s) out already, he knew who was there before reaching the field.

#131 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:18 AM | Reply

#117 f--- you boaz.

#133 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 11:19 AM | Reply

And I love you too JPW....

#135 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 11:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"I told you guys, a civil war is coming.." - #117 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 11:11 AM

No it isn't.

Besides, you would be one of the very first casualties in such a calamity.

#136 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:21 AM | Reply

I told you guys, a civil war is coming..

You rush to alarmism at Usain Bolt speed.

This is a terrible incident, but we've had many incidents of politically targeted violence in this country that did not lead to a civil war.

#137 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Thankfully no one was killed and the shooter was apprehended. As angry and passionate as people may feel about the changes taking place in America, we all need to be mindful that it is just a short distance from fake news and misinformation to fear and violence.

#138 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-06-14 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So.... when is this going to be called terrorism?

"ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

#139 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2017-06-14 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I told you guys, a civil war is coming..

#137 | Posted by rcade at

Only if people who believe in that will it.

#140 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:24 AM | Reply

This can't be terrorism. The act wasn't against civilians. Everyone knows the law is only applied to civilians.
Politicians are something else.

#141 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 11:25 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

A civil war would be a disaster for this country, just like the last one was.

#142 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Suspect arrested: James Hodgson, from Illinois.

#143 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-06-14 11:27 AM | Reply

"Was an article about that posted on DR? If so prove it, if not STFU."
"Uproar over Trump-themed 'Julius Caesar,' but none for Obama version at Guthrie 5 years ago"
www.startribune.com
Stuff happens that isn't posted here on Drudge Boaz, like it or not. It's still real.

DANNI your circular logic proves your lack of intellect. You claim BOAZ wasn't critical of some Obama play but can't prove it was ever posted on DR where he could have been critical.

5 years ago wasn't a long time ago. The internet was alive and well then. Can you even find a MSNBC or CNN article reporting the Obama play 5 years ago?

The only thing I can find is the current article you posted. If it wasn't reported, there could not have been any outrage over it. I'm not sure are smart enough to understand that.

#144 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2017-06-14 11:27 AM | Reply

#135 I'm tired of your civil war rhetoric. It's sick, disgusting and light years beyond anything said by the dreaded "liberals".

To turn to that immediately now that a Repub was shot by an apparent leftist just shows how badly you salivate at such thinking. Get help dude. You truly are mentally ill.

#145 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 11:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If you are blaming political divisiveness while using this incident to attack the left, you're part of the divisiveness.

#146 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

so short sighted to think that the Right needs to fight with a hand tied behind its back as the US has done on the world stage for so long. You drew first blood (Rambo). Congrats.

#121 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 11:12 AM | Reply

You're quite the sick little puppy. Seek help.

#147 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:28 AM | Reply

Anybody ever wonder how dumb it would feel to launch a planned assassination attempt, fail miserably, and get caught?

#148 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:29 AM | Reply

Every active shooter situation. Nobody knows there is a problem until bullets are already flying.

www.nbcnews.com

www.dailykos.com

www.rawstory.com

www.sheknows.com

#149 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My mistake...from WaPo:

Suspect in shooting at congressional baseball practice identified by law enforcement officials as James T. Hodgkinson
The man who opened fire at a baseball field in Alexandria, Va., is James T. Hodgkinson of Belleville, Ill., according to law enforcement officials. Hodgkinson, 66, owns a home inspection business. His home inspection license expired in November 2016 and was not renewed, state records show.

Hodgkinson was charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a motor vehicle, according to online records in St. Clair County, Illinois. The charges were dismissed, records show.

#150 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-06-14 11:30 AM | Reply

Ah, you're stuck on that idea that people are saying the good guy always wins. That's a fantasy. Having a firearm gives you the option to fight back, that's it. No outcome is guaranteed.

#151 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:31 AM | Reply

To #130. What I am suggesting is that there has been ample armed overthrow speak since Hitlery blew the unloseable race. It's not all Lefties but it is some. This guy was a Berniecrat whose behavior is in line with some of the rhetoric. I would prefer reasoned discourse to hyperbole and / or violence. BTW POTUS Trump heads the executive and they have the best toys.

#152 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 11:31 AM | Reply

I'm tired of your civil war rhetoric. It's sick, disgusting and light years beyond anything said by the dreaded "liberals".

I'm not going to tolerate it any more here. That's a call for violence, and any comment urging that is way over the line.

If you want to keep an account here, Boaz, it needs to stop.

#153 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:31 AM | Reply

Definitely a Bernie Bro:

James T. Hodgkinson
August 9, 2016 ·
Change.org

Bernie is a Progressive, while Hillary is Republican Lite.

Hillary Rodham Clinton Should Concede the Nomination to Bernie Sanders - Sign the Petition!

4,252 signatures are still needed!
{*actor*} just signed this petition on Change.org.

James T. Hodgkinson shared a link.
July 25, 2016 ·
Thunderclap

#ScreamAsOne #NeverVotingHill
You've been warned DNC. I will NEVER vote Hillary. A nomination for Hillary, equals a win for Trump. #NOTWithHer
thndr.me

James T. Hodgkinson
June 13, 2016 ·
Change.org

Bernie is the Only Candidate in Decades that Really Cares about the Working Class.

Bernie Sanders: Bernie - Please Run No Matter What - Sign the Petition!
8,128 signatures are still needed!
{*actor*} just signed this petition on Change.org.

James T. Hodgkinson
April 27, 2016 ·
Change.org

FEC Open an investigation into Hillary Clinton and the DNC for election fraud. - Sign the Petition!
22,500 signatures are still needed!
{*actor*} just signed this petition on Change.org.

James T. Hodgkinson
April 8, 2016 ·
Change.org

NBC: Senator Bernie Sanders deserves media recognition. End the Blackout!! - Sign the Petition!
2,362 signatures are still needed!
{*actor*} just signed this petition on Change.org.

James T. Hodgkinson
March 18, 2016 ·
Change.org

Bernie is a Candidate of a Lifetime. We Need Bernie in the White House. Bernie is the Only Candidate Talking about the Issues.

NBC: Senator Bernie Sanders deserves media recognition. End the Blackout!! - Sign the Petition!
1,496 signatures are still needed!
{*actor*} just signed this petition on Change.org.

#154 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:33 AM | Reply

#139 | Posted by pumpkinhead

Now that the shooter has been identified and he is a Bernie supporter. Because he is a liberal the right will call it terrorism - not that any of the recent attacks by conservatives that should have been and weren't make any difference. (Say the Gabby Giffords shooting...)

Frankly speaking I think it was an attempted political assassination call it terrorism if you like because it fits that too. Fortunately he was not a good shot.

#155 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-06-14 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#109 | Posted by Hans
I pray for you every night Hans.
Glad your OK.

#156 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-06-14 11:35 AM | Reply

Bears repeating:

But anyone with a memory should remember Palin being blamed for Loughner because her confessional map had targets on it, and look back at how utterly stupid the game of blaming pols for nut jobs coming unhinged is.

#81 | POSTED BY LIVE_OR_DIE

This guy's Facebook page has been drug up and he has a lot of anti-Trump and anti-GOP screeds.

Now that the show is on the other foot righties will have a field day with this.
Because they're classless morons.

#129 | POSTED BY JPW

What would that make the lefties who politicized, without any factual basis, the Giffords shooting?

#157 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 11:35 AM | Reply

Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co."

Sound familiar Dr left? You all are hysterical in your deflections. THE LEFT OWNS THIS

#158 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 11:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"What I am suggesting is that there has been ample armed overthrow speak since..." - #152 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 11:31 AM

Selective and amnesiatic faux outrage.

Meanwhile...

The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right

The Eliminationists describes the malignant influence of right-wing hate talk on the American conservative movement. Tracing much of this vitriol to the dank corners of the para-fascist right, award-winning reporter David Neiwert documents persistent ideas and rhetoric that champion the elimination of opposition groups. As a result of this hateful discourse, Neiwert argues, the broader conservative movement has metastasized into something not truly conservative, but decidedly right-wing and potentially dangerous.

#159 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

the broader conservative movement has metastasized into something not truly conservative, but decidedly right-wing and potentially dangerous.

#159 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:36 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

Absolutely.

#160 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Those who talk as if they would welcome civil war are committing treason. We didn't hang the Confederates but a good case could be made for the idea that we should have.

#161 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:38 AM | Reply

My prayers go out to the victims.

#22 | Posted by Federalist

I think the victims would prefer your votes for gun control instead of your prayers.

#162 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 11:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"You all are hysterical in your deflections." - #158 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 11:36 AM

Man admits church shooting, says liberals should die
Oops.

#163 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:39 AM | Reply

Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co."

Sound familiar Dr left? You all are hysterical in your deflections. THE LEFT OWNS THIS

#158 | Posted by DavetheWave

If it was up to the left, the guy would have had to do it with a knife.
Crazy people are lethal because of the right.

#164 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 11:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump is a Traitor.

#158 | Posted by DavetheWave

I think this, DAVE. I'm willing for the truth to will out, and Donald get his day in court. May God make this soon.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:40 AM | Reply

Anybody ever wonder how dumb it would feel to launch a planned assassination attempt, fail miserably, and get caught?

I think most would-be political assassins aren't in a state of mind where they could rationally assess their success or failure. They're in the grip of a mania.

#166 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


If you want to keep an account here, Boaz, it needs to stop.

#153 | Posted by rcade

ok...

#167 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 11:41 AM | Reply

How quickly so many forget:

Bill O'Reilly's Dangerous War Against Dr. Tiller

O'Reilly waged an unflagging harassment campaign against the abortion provider before Tiller was murdered in 2009

#168 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What would that make the lefties who politicized, without any factual basis, the Giffords shooting?

In the early hours after that shooting everybody thought it was political. That's the obvious rush-to-judgment conclusion when a member of Congress is shot.

Only later did we learn Jared Loughner was so crazy that he was beyond political motivations.

#169 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:43 AM | Reply


We didn't hang the Confederates but a good case could be made for the idea that we should have.

#161 | Posted by Danni

Danni,

RCADE said stop talking about Civil War or he will ban you..

#170 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 11:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The pretense that one side of the political spectrum approves of violence and that the other doesn't it a false pretense, none of the sane people on either side of the aisle approve of violence and we, as the sane people of the nation, need to join together, regardless of political viewpoint, and condemn all violence. The "crazies" are beginning to have too loud of a voice in our politics.

#171 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I think most would-be political assassins aren't in a state of mind where they could rationally assess their success or failure. They're in the grip of a mania.

#166 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-06-14 11:40 AM | REPLY

Could be, but there are historical instances where it gets weird. Pricip's assassination attempt was an actual failure. He went to a bar to sulk about it, and then all of a sudden the Arch Duke was just sitting outside after his driver took a wrong turn.

#172 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Congressional ball games are a nice bipartisan tradition in a town without many of those traditions left. I hate that this shooting has attacked it. It's a relief that no members of Congress or others at the game were killed. The news could be far worse.

#173 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

THE LEFT OWNS THIS
#158 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE

Like you and "The Right" own the OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING?

#174 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2017-06-14 11:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

The "crazies" are beginning to have too loud of a voice in our politics.

#171 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-06-14 11:44 AM | FLAG:

Welcome to the Internet Age of unlimited communication. Scientists thought they were building a device to have society survive a nuclear holocaust. Turns out they managed to connect every nutcase on the planet as a byproduct.

#175 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:46 AM | Reply

The pretense that one side of the political spectrum approves of violence and that the other doesn't it a false pretense, none of the sane people on either side of the aisle approve of violence and we, as the sane people of the nation, need to join together, regardless of political viewpoint, and condemn all violence.

Amen.

The common people of this country on the left, right and middle abhor political violence. We all think assassins are evil.

#176 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

RCADE said stop talking about Civil War or he will ban you..

#170 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag

Pardoning the Confederacy was an act of pure Americanism; almost faultless politics.

Having said that, one reason the Wild West was such in Texas is that the Civil War here continued after Appomattox, and for a long time, too.

#178 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 11:48 AM | Reply

BOAZ, I'm just saying that anyone supporting civil war is treasonous and should be treated as traitors to our nation. If that comes too close to who you are then perhaps you need to do some soul searching, don't ever advocate for civil war. In our Civil War 600,000 people died, fortunes were lost, people starved, economic developement stagnated for decades. Never talk about civil war as something that any sane American would consider as a real alternative to politics. Us Democrats lost in a stolen election but even so we want to fight back within the legal limits of our democracy. Let's all acknowledge that we are willing to live within the constraints of the rule of law even if we are unhappy with the outcomes of elections.

#179 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This site blamed Palin FOR MONTHS." - #177 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 11:46 AM

You blamed Palin for months?

#180 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 11:49 AM | Reply

"Or he's a democrat who got caught up in all the Democrat inspired violence toward our President, like cutting off his head or a play depicting his assassination.
#47 | POSTED BY BOAZ"

Huh? I didn't think Trump was there. (Were they making him lay his corpulent form on the ground and be second base again?)

#181 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 11:49 AM | Reply

What would that make the lefties who politicized, without any factual basis, the Giffords shooting?

#157 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Do you really feel the need to ask?

Hint-I already described them.

In any case, righties have the added bonus of a history of swearing up and down that Jared Loughner didn't represent them, so they have the added classlessness of playing the gotcha game over this just to be childishly spiteful.

#182 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 11:49 AM | Reply

MSNBC reporting the gunman is dead.

#183 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:50 AM | Reply

The "crazies" are beginning to have too loud of a voice in our politics.

#171 | POSTED BY DANNI

Yeah that happened in 1999 when they got their own tv news network.

#184 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 11:51 AM | Reply

In our Civil War 600,000 people died, fortunes were lost, people starved, economic developement stagnated for decades. Never talk about civil war as something that any sane American would consider as a real alternative to politics.

#179 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-06-14 11:49 AM | FLAG:

Yet American slavery was crushed and after the war abolished even in the North.

#185 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:51 AM | Reply

The Drudge Retort did not blame Palin for the Giffords shooting for months.

Some people here kept faulting her for the target-shooting rhetoric, but they were not anywhere close to a majority of the Democrats and liberals here.

Most of us acknowledged quickly that Loughner was just a kook.

#186 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 11:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Pardoning the Confederacy was an act of pure Americanism; almost faultless politics."

I don't disagree but when people start talking about supporting civil war today it does call into question the wisdom, long term, of telling folks you can do this and not be punished for it. At least the leaders of the Confederacy should have been hung, IMHO. They were responsible for over 600,000 deaths of Americans. That should not have gone unpunished.

#187 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 11:52 AM | Reply

BTW POTUS Trump heads the executive and they have the best toys.

Meaning what? He's going to send out the army and National Guard to gun down protestors? People who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

#188 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:53 AM | Reply

THE LEFT OWNS THIS
#158 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE
Like you and "The Right" own the OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING?
#174 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

Gabby Giffords gets shot in the face.
"Not our fault" - DAVETHEWAVE

Scalise gets shot in the hip.
"THE LEFT OWNS THIS" - DAVETHEWAVE

#189 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 11:53 AM | Reply

This should be in quotes: "BTW POTUS Trump heads the executive and they have the best toys."

#190 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:53 AM | Reply

"I told you guys, a civil war is coming..
#117 | POSTED BY BOAZ"

That's BS. There might be a couple of thousand people who think like you do. If you nuts ever act on your craziness, the tens of millions of the rest of us, on both sides of the political spectrum, will smash you like bugs.

#191 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 11:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

That should not have gone unpunished.

#187 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-06-14 11:52 AM | FLAG:

Executing the Southern leadership would have turned the civil war into a guerilla war instead of Unification. The well established blueprint for defeating insurgency is ethnic cleansing and concentration camps. Good things cooler heads prevailed.

#192 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 11:56 AM | Reply

"There were armed people there. I have been told over and over that if everyone is armed, this kind of thing can't happen."

The armed people, i.e. the security derail carrying guns, stopped the shooter before he went from causing a handful of boo-boos to killing the whole lot of them.

#193 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 11:57 AM | Reply

If we want to blame the political environment for this man's actions, then let's be honest about it: Everyone in this country who has spoken or depicted, supported or encouraged violent rhetoric and images owns this. And that includes President Trump.

#194 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 11:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

*derail = detail

Once again, damn my pgone

#195 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-06-14 11:57 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

How about instead of trying to blame the other team we wish a full and speedy recovery to the injured and use this as a wake up call to start focusing on making the country a better place for EVERYONE?

#196 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 12:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I pray for you every night Hans." - #156 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-06-14 11:35 AM

Color me "lucky."

#197 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 12:01 PM | Reply

Meaning be prepared for backlash when you sow violence. There are people on the Twitterverse praising the guy and calling it karmic retribution. If we can all settle down, this may end up being the free pass back to reasoned discourse. Fool me once, etc.

#198 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 12:02 PM | Reply

"I told you guys, a civil war is coming.."

The silent majority of Americans does not want a civil war.

#200 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:05 PM | Reply

The majority is actually kind of irrelevant in a civil war scenario. Less than 10% are ever involved in the fighting.

#201 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 12:06 PM | Reply

"Meaning be prepared for backlash when you sow violence. There are people on the Twitterverse praising the guy and calling it karmic retribution. If we can all settle down, this may end up being the free pass back to reasoned discourse. Fool me once, etc."

Like Danni said earlier, don't believe everything you see on the internet. I mean it's not like fake twitter accounts, created by RW nuts and Russian trolls, won't be used to make this look like the left supports this.

#202 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:08 PM | Reply

There are people on the Twitterverse praising the guy and calling it karmic retribution. If we can all settle down, this may end up being the free pass back to reasoned discourse.

Millions of people use Twitter. That encompasses all of humanity, including some insane, dangerous people and others prone to extreme hysteria and stupidity in the heat of the moment.

There will never be a day when millions of people can communicate with each other in real time all over the planet and all of them return to reasoned discourse.

#203 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"There are people on the Twitterverse praising the guy and calling it karmic retribution." - #198 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 12:02 PM

So?

There people on the Twitterverse posting all kinds of nonsense.

No serious person thinks the Twitterverse is anything other than just another outlet for basically anonymous posting.

See: John Gabriel's Greater Internet ------- Theory

#205 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 12:09 PM | Reply

203 we aren't talking Twitter. Nice deflections.

#206 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 12:10 PM | Reply

DaveTheWave: I'm not interested in hosting your bellyaching about the community here. Move on to another topic.

#207 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's weird to me that someone who hated Hillary as much as the shooter did would go after Republicans. The Never Hillary folks on here give Trump a pass. IOW, the hate Hillary (and Dems in general) more than they hate Trump.

#208 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"203 we aren't talking Twitter." - #206 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2017-06-14 12:10 PM

"There are people on the Twitterverse..." - #198 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 12:02 PM
Oops.

#209 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 12:13 PM | Reply

we aren't talking Twitter. Nice deflections.

The comment I quoted was about Twitter, as you can see for yourself in the quote. Pay more attention.

#210 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Congrats Teajadists, you made this!!!!
Odds are, this person is a democrat..
-Boaz
++++++++++++++

As usual the point went over your head.

#211 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-06-14 12:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In the early hours after that shooting everybody thought it was political. That's the obvious rush-to-judgment conclusion when a member of Congress is shot.
Only later did we learn Jared Loughner was so crazy that he was beyond political motivations.

#169 | POSTED BY RCADE

Even after Loughner was known to simply be crazy lefties were still blaming Palin and the Tea Party. Don't think people have forgotten.

#212 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The majority is actually kind of irrelevant in a civil war scenario. Less than 10% are ever involved in the fighting.
#201 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG"

Your second sentence may be right, but your first sentence is a wrongheaded conclusion. Those 10% who are carrying and using weapons need people on their side to feed and otherwise support them. If 5% of a population is shooting at another 5%, whose side the other 90% is on is very relevant.

#214 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 12:15 PM | Reply

Never talk about civil war as something that any sane American would consider as a real alternative to politics. Us Democrats lost in a stolen election .... (please, lost, not stolen)

#179 | POSTED BY DANNI

But, sane people do think like this.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Our forefathers were traitors. It was a civil war. Calling it a revolution is like calling an investigation just a 'matter'. Watering down the term - it was a civil war.

The only people who can talk openly about a civil war are the winners. I remember reading Shogun and the question raised about opposing authority - the answer was, "not if you win." That's what George Washington did and I believe he was sane when he made that choice.

It is not wrong to warn the public of the possibility. History repeats. Nobody wants to be around when it does.

#215 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 12:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"There are people on the Twitterverse...."

"Millions of people use Twitter.
#203 | POSTED BY RCADE"

"203 we aren't talking Twitter. Nice deflections.
#206 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE"

Is it physically painful to be that dense?

#216 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

When you vote against gun regulations, cut funding for mental health treatment, then you're shot by a crazy guy at baseball practice.

Isn't it ironic?

Dontcha think?

#217 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 12:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Even after Loughner was known to simply be crazy lefties were still blaming Palin and the Tea Party. Don't think people have forgotten.

You never loosen your grip on partisanship, do you? Nursing a grudge about that is foolish. Wise people recognize that in every act of political violence some people are going to cling to an explanation that blames the other side, no matter what facts are later learned. Look at Trump and all the false narratives he keeps claiming as fact, like his comment, "I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering."

#218 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Even after Loughner was known to simply be crazy lefties were still blaming Palin and the Tea Party. Don't think people have forgotten.

#212 | Posted by JeffJ

Loughner being crazy doesn't mean Palin didn't inspire crazy poeple to do crazy things.

You have to ASSUME dangerous crazy people are out there.

That's why we need strong gun regulations.

#219 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 12:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And we shouldn't rule out the possibility that this was suicide by cop. Maybe in the days ahead, as more comes out about the shooter, we'll find out.

#220 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:23 PM | Reply

Seriously? 50 shots.

Higher power in effect today. Could have been much much worse.

#221 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2017-06-14 12:23 PM | Reply

"Yet American slavery was crushed and after the war abolished even in the North."

Which should have happened simply as an act of law which the citizens of our country obeyed. Instead, before we even outlawed slavery, some of our citizens decided they could overrule the rule of law and conduct war upon our nation causing thousands of deaths simply because they feared that the balance between free states and slaves states might change and that Lincoln had been elected President.

#222 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:23 PM | Reply

I told you guys, a civil war is coming..
~Boaz

The really messed up part of your statement is that you're projecting your own wishes upon the rest of us. I've come to believe that you would really like to see an us and them, civil war type of calamity in this country.

#223 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-06-14 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"In a statement Wednesday morning, Mr. Sanders said he had been told the alleged shooter had volunteered for his presidential campaign. Mr. Sanders offered his "hopes and prayers" for the shooting victims.

"I am sickened by this despicable act," Mr. Sanders said. "Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action."

www.nytimes.com

#224 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Danni,

What you leave out is our nation was designed to be ruled at the LOWEST level. The civil war was about States rights to over rule the national policy. That's why our country was founded and the Civil war just went past that.

#225 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Our forefathers were traitors. It was a civil war. Calling it a revolution is like calling an investigation just a 'matter'. Watering down the term - it was a civil war."

What you call "civil war" against a King is not the same thing, by any means, as a "civil war" against a democracy which each state or colony voluntarily joined into a nation and then created a Constitution and all ratified it. Sorry, but a revolt against any King has my support even today, I don't believe in monarchy, I believe in democracy. A revolt against a true democracy is an evil, twisted attempt to return to monarchy though the new King may not have been identified. It is an attempt to disregard the will of the people and that cannot stand in the United States though the Republicans are certainly trying to test that principle.

#226 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:29 PM | Reply

The difference is Danni,

When you say, "United States", you are talking about the country as a whole.

When I say "United States", I'm thinking of 50 individual states with different personalities.

#227 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:29 PM | Reply

Don't worry about a civil war. The political leaders who ideologues on both sides follow are all owned by the same people. And those people gain nothing by having their suckers fight each other.

#228 | Posted by Sully at 2017-06-14 12:30 PM | Reply

The civil war was about States rights to over rule the national policy.

That argument was settled the day a federal income tax passed. This is a strong federal system in which states have limited control and their dependence on federal aid means that Washington can dictate to them on any subject it wants.

We wouldn't be a powerful country if states had the kind of power you wish they had.

#229 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When Danni says marriage she is thinking of the union between two people.

When Boaz says marriage he is thinking of 2 individuals with different personalities.

#230 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:31 PM | Reply

which each state or colony voluntarily joined into a nation

But are forbidden to leave under threat of violence or war.

#231 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:32 PM | Reply

"What you leave out is our nation was designed to be ruled at the LOWEST level. The civil war was about States rights to over rule the national policy."

Point out the clause in the Constitution that allows secession. The Civil War was just a bunch of slave owners who feared the law might change and outlaw the evil institution of slavery. Are you, Boaz, trying to defend slavery? You think States rights should be allowed to prevent the abolition of slavery? Think about that.

#232 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:33 PM | Reply

Those 10% who are carrying and using weapons need people on their side to feed and otherwise support them.

#214 | POSTED BY MONTECORE AT 2017-06-14 12:15 PM | REPLY

It's not that simple. The vast majority of Mexicans don't support the cartels, yet the cartels have no problem hiding in the civilian population and use both gifts and extreme violence to ensure a blind eye is turned towards them.

#233 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 12:33 PM | Reply

"But are forbidden to leave under threat of violence or war."

Maybe things are different today. If some states want to leave the Union, perhaps we should let them go. Kind of like an amicable divorce.

#234 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Which should have happened simply as an act of law which the citizens of our country obeyed.

#222 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-06-14 12:23 PM | FLAG:

lol. Americans don't obey laws they don't like. What was banned was the Atlantic slave trade, they could still buy from slave breeding states in the North & South it just wasn't enough supply to match demand. Americans immediately flouted the oceanic trade ban and rejected the crack down on it, which led to war.

#235 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 12:36 PM | Reply

We wouldn't be a powerful country if states had the kind of power you wish they had.

#229 | Posted by rcade

'Yeah. But I'd still be able to own me some n-----s so it would be ok.'

Or, in Boaz's case, 'Yeah. But at least I could be someone else's property so it would be ok.'

#236 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-06-14 12:36 PM | Reply

Jeff,

Are you ever going to quit this childish "but they did it too" ----?

It's old. Really really old.

#237 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 12:37 PM | Reply

"The civil war was about States rights to over rule the national policy. That's why our country was founded and the Civil war just went past that. "

North Carolina was one of the Confederate States. Do you believe their voters should be able to reinstitute slavery?

#238 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 12:37 PM | Reply

Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms.*

#224 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-06-14 12:27 PM | FLAG:

* unless it's done by the government, for reasons he agrees with at the time.

#239 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 12:38 PM | Reply

You never loosen your grip on partisanship, do you? Nursing a grudge about that is foolish. Wise people recognize that in every act of political violence some people are going to cling to an explanation that blames the other side,

Those who blamed Palin and the Tea Party, even after the facts came out about Loughner, weren't limited to extremists on the left. People with beg megaphones who are considered among the mainstream exploited that tragedy for political gain. Scumbags.

#240 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Apparently boaz hasn't heard of or willfully ignores the supremacy clause...

#241 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 12:39 PM | Reply

"Maybe things are different today. If some states want to leave the Union, perhaps we should let them go. Kind of like an amicable divorce."

A divorce applies to two people, secession applies to all the people of that state who are guaranteed, by the Constitution, rights which no seceding state would necessarily guarantee. No state should ever be allowed to secede and thereby be in a position to deny Constitutional rights to American citizens who happen to live in that state. Then there are also millions of contractual obligations, no, we are one country and democracy is used to settle our disputes. When your side loses then fight harder next time.

#242 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:41 PM | Reply

Are you ever going to quit this childish "but they did it too" ----?
It's old. Really really old.

#237 | POSTED BY JPW

Blaming the Giffords shooting on Palin and the Tea Party was an act of pure douchebaggery.

The scumbags who perpetuated it deserve to be called out on occasion. This happens to be one of those occasions.

#243 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:41 PM | Reply

#239

Ah, the Ebil Gubmint Lament. It's just so intelligent. You are well on your way to becoming Ray.

#244 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 12:43 PM | Reply

"People with beg megaphones who are considered among the mainstream exploited that tragedy for political gain."

What gains were those?

#245 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 12:43 PM | Reply

"Blaming the Giffords shooting on Palin and the Tea Party was an act of pure douchebaggery."

So, what's a Second Amendment remedy, exactly?

#246 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

States rights and Slavery are two different things in todays meanings.

Of course I don't agree with slavery. But that's over. I still believe the states should have ALOT more control over the citizens than the federal govt does. The federal gov should have almost NO interaction in the citizens life unless you work for them.

#247 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#243 so no. You're sticking with it.

Sad. Low energy too.

#248 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 12:45 PM | Reply

"Those who blamed Palin and the Tea Party, even after the facts came out about Loughner, weren't limited to extremists on the left."

Most people on the left didn't really "blame" Palin but were justified in reminding America about the awful things she said. Really, why shouldn't we have, she said those things, she should have taken responsiblity for the things she said which could easily be construed to be reasons for idiots like Loughner to do the evil things he did. You can't be a Governor, much less a Presidential candidate, and say totally irresponsible things in public and not be held accountable when shooters do the things you sort of threaten to do. Palin is a POS, she needs to just go away and take her evil philosophy with her.

#249 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:45 PM | Reply

- This happens to be one of those occasions.

Um, when did Sanders do anything equivalent to what Palin did? Or what Trump has done to incite violence.

#250 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 12:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A divorce applies to two people, secession applies to all the people of that state who are guaranteed, by the Constitution, rights which no seceding state would necessarily guarantee.

Then they should LEAVE that state. Our nation is designed so that you can go from one state to another that you feel comfortable in. It's designed so we can live in a community that makes us comfortable.

#251 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Of course I don't agree with slavery. But that's over. I still believe the states should have ALOT more control over the citizens than the federal govt does."

OK, so you don't believe in the Constitution. Got it. The rights guaranteed in it are in complete opposition to state's rights because that is exactly where the conflict always arises. You either believe in the Constitution or you don't.

#252 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Um, when did Sanders do anything equivalent to what Palin did? Or what Trump has done to incite violence.

The 12th of Never.

#253 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#246 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Case in point.

Most people on the left didn't really "blame" Palin

Yes, they did.

do the things you sort of threaten to do.

She didn't threaten to do anything, sort of, or otherwise.

For the record, I do not blame anyone for this shooting other than the shooter himself.

#254 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"This is not a time for trying to score points on either side of our never-ending argument about gun rights. It is not a time for politicians or political activists on either side of the spectrum to try to score points against the opposition.

Giffords knows this. She tweeted:

Gabrielle Giffords ✔ @GabbyGiffords
My heart is with my former colleagues, their families & staff, and the US Capitol Police- public servants and heroes today and every day.
8:49 AM - 14 Jun 2017"

www.azcentral.com

#255 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 12:49 PM | Reply

Um, when did Sanders do anything equivalent to what Palin did? Or what Trump has done to incite violence.
#250 | POSTED BY CORKY

Since I don't blame Sanders for this in any way...

#256 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:49 PM | Reply

The federal gov't passed the Act of 1850 and the Federal gov't didn't enforce the law. The Southern States name that Act and the failure to enforce it just one of the major causes of their dissent.

No, I'm not a Southerner. I have no family tree going back that far to be involved.

#257 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 12:49 PM | Reply

"I told you guys, a civil war is coming..
~Boaz"

Boaz is the new Ray. Ray claimed to be predicting the collapse of the stock market (how's that going for you Ray? Ready to admit that shorting all those stocks was a colossal mistake?), but he was really wishing for it. Boaz is wishing for civil war. He won't get his wish either.

#258 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 12:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#255 | POSTED BY CORKY

Good for Giffords showing some class.

It's too rare these days (people showing class).

#259 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:50 PM | Reply

Those who blamed Palin and the Tea Party, even after the facts came out about Loughner, weren't limited to extremists on the left. People with beg megaphones who are considered among the mainstream exploited that tragedy for political gain.

For nine years, Palin has used her megaphone for plenty of obnoxious political scapegoating.

She blamed her son's domestic violence arrest on Obama:

www.politico.com

She blamed Obama for Curt Schilling getting fired by ESPN:

www.politicususa.com

She blamed the media for the man who shot Dallas police in that downtown rampage:

www.joemygod.com

I can't recall you ever condemning Palin for anything like this, but you want us to care forever about Palin taking heat for Loughner? I'd like to play my tiny violin in recognition of your sorrow, but I can't find it.

#260 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 12:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"States rights and Slavery are two different things in todays meanings."

That doesn't answer the question: Should North Carolinians have the right to vote slavery back into law, or do you believe the Federal Government has the right to bar it?

#261 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 12:51 PM | Reply

#260 | POSTED BY RCADE

Post a thread and I'll condemn her.

She's no saint. She's said a lot of stupid things.

#262 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 12:52 PM | Reply

"A divorce applies to two people, secession applies to all the people of that state who are guaranteed, by the Constitution, rights which no seceding state would necessarily guarantee. No state should ever be allowed to secede and thereby be in a position to deny Constitutional rights to American citizens who happen to live in that state. Then there are also millions of contractual obligations, no, we are one country and democracy is used to settle our disputes. When your side loses then fight harder next time."

All good points Danni. My thought is that if most folks in a state vote to leave the Union, maybe we should let them go rather than fight another Civil War. The States that remain can work on creating a more perfect union. Contractual obligations will go to hell in a civil war, and American citizens in every state will be at risk and have to take sides.

#263 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 12:52 PM | Reply

"Boaz is wishing for civil war."

You misspelled salivating.

#264 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 12:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Higher power in effect today. Could have been much much worse.

#221 | Posted by AuntieSocial

Couldve been much better if he was only able to buy a knife.

#265 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 12:57 PM | Reply

"Most people on the left didn't really "blame" Palin"

"Yes, they did.
#254 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

"Most" people?
What is your evidence for this claim?

#266 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 12:57 PM | Reply

The shooter was responsible for his actions, though had he lived he might have been found not mentally competent to be so legally.

The Republicans are responsible for putting forth things like an ACA repeal and "health care plan" that even a self-centered clown like Trump would call, "mean".

It's no excuse for violence, but that kind of sneering at the American people will not go unanswered in the voting booth.

#267 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 12:57 PM | Reply

Boaz is wishing for civil war. He won't get his wish either.

I'm not wishing for civil war. I'm only saying that one may happen if the country remains divided to the point of no reconciliation..

#268 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 12:58 PM | Reply

"The federal gov't passed the Act of 1850 and the Federal gov't didn't enforce the law. The Southern States name that Act and the failure to enforce it just one of the major causes of their dissent."

They have come up with lots of excuses except the truth. Lincoln was elected and Missouri was admitted as a free state which changed the balance of power. That caused the slave owning Southerners to feel their fortune's threatened, which they absolutely were. They stood to lose millions of dollars worth of "property" which was what the slaves they "owned" were worth. So they attacked Fort Sumpter and started the Civil War instead of relying on the rule of law to protect, or not, their interests. IMHO, they could have gotten a better deal by not starting a war, they could probably have convinced the Congress to give them some sort of compensation for their loss of "property." But they chose war, lost that war and then received undeserved mercy from the Union. And today, because they received undeserved mercy -------- today still talk about secession and expect not to be punished as the traitors to their country that they are. Talk of secession should be a crime, you should go to prison to attempting to create an insurrection in the United States. Hey, the same -------- that want "protesters" thrown in jail dont' seem to think that "secessionists" should at least go to jail?

#269 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 12:59 PM | Reply

"For the record, I do not blame anyone for this shooting other than the shooter himself."

For the record JeffJ, I asked what a Second Amendment remedy is.

#270 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:00 PM | Reply

She didn't threaten to do anything, sort of, or otherwise.

Do you live in a Fox News bunker?

Palin never talked about second amendment remedies? Trump has also said things that could incite violence. Like having his "second amendment" people take care of Hillary.

Sarah Palin actually circulated a map placing crosshairs over lawmakers who supported President Barack Obama's health care reform law -- including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who was later shot and seriously wounded by a deranged gunman in 2011.

"Don't retreat, instead- RELOAD!"

Our words have real world consequences.

#271 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:00 PM | Reply

For the record JeffJ, I asked what a Second Amendment remedy is.

#270 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I don't care.

#272 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And I guess I say that to say both sides refusing to see or validate the issues of the other is what's pushing us there. We are going to have to have a time when both are willing to live under the rule of the other, but the ruling side is going to have to sometimes institute some of the ideas of the other to keep the peace.

All I see today, on both sides, is when one gets into power they just run rough shod over the other and push policy without input or the other side being able to stop it.

The ferments anger and frustration.

I don't want civil war and a break down of society.

#273 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:02 PM | Reply

#271 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Another case-in-point.

You guys make it easy.

#274 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:02 PM | Reply

You guys make it easy.

#274 | Posted by JeffJ

You are in denial.

#275 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:03 PM | Reply

For the record JeffJ, I asked what a Second Amendment remedy is.
#270 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
I don't care.
#272 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

But the mentally ill do. And that's the problem.

#276 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 01:05 PM | Reply

"All I see today, on both sides, is when one gets into power they just run rough shod over the other and push policy without input or the other side being able to stop it."

OK Boaz, then how can you defend the Senate Republican, right now, drawing up healthcare legislation that effect 20% of the American economy totally in secret and preventing Democrats from even seeing the legislation, and then trying to get it passed without the CBO or the public having any opportunity to speak about it?

#277 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:05 PM | Reply

"Case in point."

Like this shooting is a case in point of a Second Amendment remedy, JeffJ?

#278 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:07 PM | Reply

JeffJ

If you think that politicians cannot incite violence with their words and actions you are wrong.

There is a lawsuit going through the courts right now that accuses Trump of inciting violence at his rallies.

A federal judge ruled that a lawsuit claiming President Trump incited violence at a 2016 campaign rally in Louisville, Ky. can proceed, the Huffington Post reported.

thehill.com

#279 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

For the record JeffJ, I asked what a Second Amendment remedy is.

#270 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I don't care.

#272 | Posted by JeffJ

You mean you don't want to admit that your team is the one full of gun nuts threatening violence, even when everyone knows its true.

#280 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And I guess I say that to say both sides refusing to see or validate the issues of the other is what's pushing us there. "

Yeah, my refusal to agree to a new healthcare plan that takes healthcare away from over 20 million people is what is pushing us there? If only I'd agree with the Republicans, throw 20 million under the bus," then we could all get along. You just can't accept the fact that the problem is with Republicans who are determined to put the benefit of the billionaires ahead of everyone else. Boaz thinks those billionaires are going to notice he was on their side and thrown him a few million, trust me Boaz, they will step on you like a bug. REalize who you are and who benefits you and your family. It might make you feel macho to be a Republican but it won't help your kids with healthcare, college, mortgages, or anything else. Hell, we might even find ourselves in another unnecessary war for profit like Iraq. Figure it out, you're not that stupid.

#281 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:11 PM | Reply

I asked what a Second Amendment remedy is.

..and got ignored, because you implied that it needs one

#282 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-06-14 01:12 PM | Reply

All I see today, on both sides, is when one gets into power they just run rough shod over the other and push policy without input or the other side being able to stop it.

#273 | Posted by boaz

Sure. Except one of those sides is fighting for tolerance, equal opportunity, environmental protection, education, and health care. The other is fighting for inequality, cruelty, guns, bigotry, homophobia, theocracy, and tax cuts for people who don't need them.

I'll let you figure out which is which.

#283 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:12 PM | Reply

"All good points Danni. My thought is that if most folks in a state vote to leave the Union, maybe we should let them go rather than fight another Civil War. The States that remain can work on creating a more perfect union. Contractual obligations will go to hell in a civil war, and American citizens in every state will be at risk and have to take sides."

A better option would be to slash the power and responsibilities of the federal government and let the states handle them. if California wanted to ban guns, implement a living wage, and provide free healthcare to everyone, then let California do that. And pay for that. If Montana wanted to do the exact opposite, that would be fine too. But having FEDGOV impose a one-size-fits-all solution across the entire country appears to be as effective as it was in the Soviet Union, where Muscovites dictated how the far-flung republics would behave.

#284 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 01:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You guys make it easy."

Make what easy, JeffJ?

#285 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:15 PM | Reply

"When I say "United States", I'm thinking of 50 individual states with different personalities." - #227 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 12:29 PM

"Before the (civil) war, it was said "the United States are." Grammatically, it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war, it was always "the United States is," as we say to day without being self-conscious at all. And that's sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an "is." - Historian Shelby Foote
Why don't you try living in the now, "col." boaz

#286 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 01:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A better option would be to slash the power and responsibilities of the federal government and let the states handle them. if California wanted to ban guns, implement a living wage, and provide free healthcare to everyone, then let California do that. And pay for that. If Montana wanted to do the exact opposite, that would be fine too. But having FEDGOV impose a one-size-fits-all solution across the entire country appears to be as effective as it was in the Soviet Union, where Muscovites dictated how the far-flung republics would behave.

#284 | Posted by madbomber

If state lines were impermeable that would be fine. But guns cross state lines as easily as pollution does.

If guns and pollution states inside red states, I'd say let them go hog wild.

#287 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:16 PM | Reply

"Sure. Except one of those sides is fighting for tolerance, equal opportunity, environmental protection, education, and health care."

Yeah. You're fighting for ideals you support. You forgot to include that. Tolerance for those who you agree with. Equal opportunity for those you can tolerate, education-provided it's in line with your ideals...and so on.

Trust me, you're no hero.

#288 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 01:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Make what easy, JeffJ?

#285 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

That you will play an insipid blame game when a shooting occurs.

#289 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:17 PM | Reply

"If state lines were impermeable that would be fine. But guns cross state lines as easily as pollution does."

So do illegal immigrants. So do drugs. They also cross national borders.

Maybe the blue states could build a wall...

#290 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 01:17 PM | Reply

All I see today, on both sides, is when one gets into power they just run rough shod over the other and push policy without input or the other side being able to stop it.

Congratulations. That was actually a coherent thought!

Though it does not appear to be done with equal vigor on both sides.

For example the ACA. It was debated for nearly a year and Republicans were allowed to attach numerous amendments to the bill before it's final passage.

Now compare that to how the Republicans are trying to slip the "repeal and replace" bill through in the dead of night without input from a single Democrat.

I believe one of our biggest complaints back then was that Obama underestimated the hatred and obstruction coming from the Republicans and tried to compromise too much.

#291 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:18 PM | Reply

Its official he was a rabid anti Trump protestor who was upset about global warming.

The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group.

#292 | Posted by tmaster at 2017-06-14 01:19 PM | Reply

"A better option would be to slash the power and responsibilities of the federal government and let the states handle them."

The power of the federal government isn't harming citizens but ignoring the Constitution would and that is primarily where the states and the federal government come into opposition. The Constitution is the primary law in every state, like it or not, secession is really just an attempt to change that. The citizens' rights that the Constitution guarantees would be abolished in those secessionist states or those states wouldn't bother to secede. Arguments as MB makes are fine, just get Congress to agree to them as long as the SC doesn't think that it allows states to violate the rights of Americans, that's going to be hard to do even with the right wing majority court we have today.

#293 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:19 PM | Reply

"That you will play an insipid blame game when a shooting occurs."

Is that what I'm doing when I ask what a Second Amendment remedy is?

#294 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:20 PM | Reply

That you will play an insipid blame game when a shooting occurs.

#289 | Posted by JeffJ

Looks to me that you an boaz were the ones who started the Insipid Blame Game.

Perhaps you are just disappointed at how it is going?

#295 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:20 PM | Reply

OK Boaz, then how can you defend the Senate Republican, right now, drawing up healthcare legislation that effect 20% of the American economy totally in secret and preventing Democrats from even seeing the legislation, and then trying to get it passed without the CBO or the public having any opportunity to speak about it?

The same way the Democrats passed Obamacare in the middle of the night, pass it before you read it and running over the objections of Republicans.

Need I remind you not one Republican voted for it.

#296 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:21 PM | Reply

Yeah. You're fighting for ideals you support. You forgot to include that. Tolerance for those who you agree with. Equal opportunity for those you can tolerate, education-provided it's in line with your ideals...and so on.

Trust me, you're no hero.

#288 | Posted by madbomber

Not a hero, just a voter motivated by compassion and science, instead of fear, greed, and ignorance like you.

#297 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group."

I'd be willing to bet we can match your nuts with our nuts. Crazy people with guns cause problems. As I recall, it was us crazy liberals who wanted gun buyers to have to pass background checks, who didn't really even want civilians owning weapons like he used. But hey, the concealed carry folks saved the day as righties always claim they will....right?????

#298 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:22 PM | Reply

- could build a wall...

Rwinger's solution for everything.

States allowing for anything from slavery to child labor to forced prostitution is why we have a national federal government.

#299 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 01:22 PM | Reply

"The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group."

Are they becoming terrorists by pursuing Second Amendment remedies?

#300 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Its official he was a rabid anti Trump protestor who was upset about global warming.

The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group.

#292 | Posted by tmaster

When you give a group no means of addressing their grievances legally, what do you expect?

The pollution profiteers are murdering people too, it's just harder to see.

#301 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:23 PM | Reply

Looks to me that you an boaz were the ones who started the Insipid Blame Game.
Perhaps you are just disappointed at how it is going?

#295 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Really? Who am I blaming for this shooting?

#302 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:23 PM | Reply

"The same way the Democrats passed Obamacare in the middle of the night, pass it before you read it and running over the objections of Republicans." - #296 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 01:21 PM

Rewriting history.

"Need I remind you not one Republican voted for it."

That's because the black guy was for it...

...despite the fact it was a conservative idea to begin with.

#303 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 01:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group.

#292 | Posted by tmaster

Not as fast as the Right Wing who has at least 20 terrorist attacks under their belt already.

The 2017 Portland train attack (2 killed),
The 2017 stabbing of Timothy Caughman in New York City (1 killed),
The 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed),
The 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed),
The 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed),
The 2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed),
The 2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed),
A 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed),
The 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed),
The 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed),
A murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed),
The 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed),
The 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed),
The 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed),
The 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed),
The 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed),
The 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed),
And the 2004 bank robbery in Tulsa, Oklahoma (1 killed).

#304 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

This is why liberals should not be allowed to own firearms..

#305 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 01:23 PM | Reply

The citizens' rights that the Constitution guarantees would be abolished in those secessionist states or those states wouldn't bother to secede.

How do you know that? The seceding state could pass a constitution similar to the one now, but with better protections for the people.

#306 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:24 PM | Reply

Is that what I'm doing when I ask what a Second Amendment remedy is?

#294 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yes.

#307 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:24 PM | Reply

-The same way the Democrats passed Obamacare in the middle of the night, pass it before you read it and running over the objections of Republicans.

So much myth, so little time....

www.drudge.com

#308 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 01:24 PM | Reply

"The same way the Democrats passed Obamacare in the middle of the night, pass it before you read it and running over the objections of Republicans. "

Obamacare was discussed in committees for over a year and Republicans sat on those committees and had some of their ideas incorporated into the bill. Then it was openly debated in Congress, the CBO rated it, the public understood it because it was talked about openly, then it was passed.

It is ridiculous and stupid to pretend that is anything similar to what the Republicans are doing today.

#309 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:25 PM | Reply

"The seceding state could pass a constitution similar to the one now, but with better protections for the people." - #306 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 01:24 PM

How do you know that?

#310 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 01:25 PM | Reply

"prior to the shooting Wednesday morning at a congressional Republican baseball practice in Alexandria, Virginia, a man asked him if it was Republicans or Democrats on the field."

James Hodgkinson's Facebook page, indicates he was a climate change activist with an intense hatred of President Donald Trump and Koch brothers. A fully brainwashed member of the cult that is the new terrorist left.

#311 | Posted by tmaster at 2017-06-14 01:26 PM | Reply

Make what easy, JeffJ?
#285 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
That you will play an insipid blame game when a shooting occurs.
#289 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You are right Jeff. Lets give everyone guns, get them drunk, and talk about how the other side needs to be taken out. Then we can see what happens. But we'll ONLY blame the shooters. We'll never talk about how much encouragement we gave them.

#312 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 01:26 PM | Reply

States allowing for anything from slavery to child labor to forced prostitution is why we have a national federal government.

No, we have a federal govt to collect taxes and provide for the common defense.

Everything else you liberals added later.

#313 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Who am I blaming for this shooting?"

The term "shooting" is pejorative and does not capture the political aspect of the event.
Please use the term "Second Amendment remedy."
Thanks.

#314 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#304

Liberal oriented shooters are a fluke, while rwing shooters are the norm.... and most of the lib shooters are mental cases while the rwingers are mostly dedicated buh-lievers.

#315 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#312 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Another case in point.

Obamacare was discussed in committees for over a year and Republicans sat on those committees and had some of their ideas incorporated into the bill. Then it was openly debated in Congress, the CBO rated it, the public understood it because it was talked about openly, then it was passed.
It is ridiculous and stupid to pretend that is anything similar to what the Republicans are doing today.

#309 | POSTED BY DANNI

I have my issues with how ACA was passed, but it was certainly debated openly.

#316 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:27 PM | Reply

#309 | Posted by Danni

If that was the case, why didn't any Repubs vote for it?

Know why? It's because democrats ignored us, that's why.

#317 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:28 PM | Reply

- Everything else you liberals added later.

Obviously you need a Braille version of the Constitution.

#318 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 01:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Everything else you liberals added later." - #313 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 01:26 PM

Like the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution.

Ingratitude is a cardinal sin, "col." boaz.

#319 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 01:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How do you know that? The seceding state could pass a constitution similar to the one now, but with better protections for the people."

Your use of the word "could" definitely proves that the rights guaranteed by our Constitution are at the mercy of whatever sort of government would control this new "country." That is not acceptable under our Constitution. If Florida wanted to secede and then diminish my rights I would have no recourse, no I would oppose any secession to preserve my rights as part of the minority which is what the Constitution was intended to do. Secession is not an option under the Constitution of the United States, if you can find a clause that allows it let me know. It is the supreme law of the land and if secession isn't in it then secession is treason.

#320 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't want civil war and a break down of society.
#273 | POSTED BY BOAZ"

That's good to hear, and you will be relieved to learn that we are not on the brink of, or even heading toward, civil war. The vast, vast majority of our people are not giving that any thought or credence whatsoever. The fact that a few nutballs think otherwise is meaningless.

#321 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 01:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Really? Who am I blaming for this shooting?

#302 | Posted by JeffJ

I didn't say you were blaming or not blaming. But, you are gleefully playing in the Game.

You jumped right in there and immediately tried in your typical Deflector fashion to deflect the conversation away from any politician who may have had a part inciting violence now or in the past by criticizing anyone who had spoke up about use of violent rhetoric in our currently poisoned political process.

As though it is not happening.

#322 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Know why? It's because democrats ignored us, that's why."

Supreme Court Gorsuch is the perfect example of ignoring the other side, President Obama nominated Garland who was ignored for almost a year by Republicans in an unprecedented abuse of power. How many Democratic votes do you think George Bush received for his tax cuts? We didn't talk about secession afterwards, we remained as members of a democratic nation, sore losers like you need to get over yourselves. Oh wait, where have I heard that recently, oh yeah, us Democrats are supposed to get over the loss of the Presidency even though our candidate received far more votes and the Russians hacked into the election systems of 39 states. And Kris Kobach disenfranchised 1.1 million voters in swing states. Riiiiighhhhhhttttt.

#323 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-The same way the Democrats passed Obamacare in the middle of the night, pass it before you read it and running over the objections of Republicans.

FAKE NEWS!

#324 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Know why? It's because democrats ignored us, that's why.

#317 | Posted by boaz

More FAKE NEWS!

#325 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:36 PM | Reply

You jumped right in there and immediately tried in your typical Deflector fashion to deflect the conversation away from any politician who may have had a part inciting violence now or in the past by criticizing anyone who had spoke up about use of violent rhetoric in our currently poisoned political process.
As though it is not happening.

#322 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

The guy who did this was a hard-core Bernie Bro. To me, it's irrelevant. Maybe you hold Bernie accountable for this, but I don't.

After the Giffords shooting the right and the left were at each other's throats. The left was blaming the right for the shooting and the right was obviously pushing back. After this went on for a few days Obama gave a speech, a truly unifying speech. The sniping quieted down after his speech. It was one of his finest moments as POTUS IMO.

#326 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:38 PM | Reply

Supreme Court Gorsuch is the perfect example of ignoring the other side, President Obama nominated Garland who was ignored for almost a year by Republicans in an unprecedented abuse of power.

It was an abuse of power, no doubt about it. Garland deserved to go through the process. It was not unprecedented, however.

#327 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:39 PM | Reply

Secession needs to be by armed conflict or with the consent of the other states. Texas v. White 74 U.S. 700 (1869).

#328 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 01:40 PM | Reply

#323,

Whatever Danni, I'm just saying, all this ignoring each other is what causes anger and frustration.

Whining "you did it too" isn't going to help.

Not passing ObamaCare on a nation that CLEARLY didn't want it would have been the right thing to do, but you liberals only wanted to get something in place you know we couldn't pry out of the hands of the poor once it was given.

#329 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:41 PM | Reply

"It was not unprecedented, however."

When else did it happen in our lifetimes?

#330 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 01:43 PM | Reply

"Know why? It's because democrats ignored us, that's why."

Boaz

It was clearly Obama's agenda to pass Health Care Reform for America and one of the reasons he was elected and it was clearly the Republicans agenda to make the ACA Obama's Waterloo and obstruct everything he tried to accomplish.

Or have you conveniently forgotten all that already?

#331 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:43 PM | Reply

James Hodgkinson's Facebook page, indicates he was a climate change activist with an intense hatred of President Donald Trump and Koch brothers. A fully brainwashed member of the cult that is the new terrorist left.

#311 | Posted by tmaster

So killing to protect the planet is terrorism, but defending fossil fuels that kill people is just capitalism?

Murderers are being confronted by other murderers.

I don't condone it, but I can see the fairness in it.

#332 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:43 PM | Reply

Jump To Conclusions!
I'm going with right-winger mad that Republicans aren't supporting Trump. Republicans will now move to enact gun control on modern sport carbines.
#2 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Wishful thinking?

#333 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 01:44 PM | Reply

The guy who did this was a hard-core Bernie Bro. To me, it's irrelevant. Maybe you hold Bernie accountable for this, but I don't.

After the Giffords shooting the right and the left were at each other's throats. The left was blaming the right for the shooting and the right was obviously pushing back. After this went on for a few days Obama gave a speech, a truly unifying speech. The sniping quieted down after his speech. It was one of his finest moments as POTUS IMO.

#326 | Posted by JeffJ

If Bernie has released campaign images with a crosshair over this senator's face, it would be similar. But he didn't. Palin did.

#334 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 01:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not passing ObamaCare on a nation that CLEARLY didn't want it"

Too rich.

If they didn't want it, why do the majority want it now? Oh, right...because twice as many Republicans supported the Affordable Care Act compared to those who supported Obamacare.

#335 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 01:45 PM | Reply

Not passing ObamaCare on a nation that CLEARLY didn't want it would have been the right thing to do..

Passing health care reform for a Nation that clearly wanted it and begged for it and who elected Obama to do that very thing would have clearly been the right thing to do.

But, Republicans clearly wanted nothing to do with it.

Because Obama.

Clearly.

#336 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:45 PM | Reply

JeffJ did Sarah Palin condone violence with her Second Amendment remedy comment?

Yes or no.

#337 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:47 PM | Reply

"Wishful thinking?" - #333 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 01:44 PM

#6 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 08:59 AM
#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 08:59 AM
Poor reading skills?

#338 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 01:49 PM | Reply

You people live in alternate universes..

#339 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

No

#340 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:50 PM | Reply

#311 "I don't condone it, but I can see the fairness in it."

I would disagree. Reasonable minds differ on the best path forward and a balance of fiscal, societal and planet-wide responsibilities. The US is a country of laws, including that we can "vote the bums out" if they suck. Individuals and groups taking up arms is not sanctioned by law and the government is obligated to do their best to quash that for the safety of all.

#341 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 01:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"No."

Then what is a Second Amendment remedy, JeffJ?

I thought it meant a shooting, which would be an act of violence.

But since it's not that, please educate me as to what a Second Amendment remedy is, and why people who suggest this remedy are not condoning violence.

#342 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When else did it happen in our lifetimes?

#330 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

That it happened before we were born doesn't change the fact that it happened.

If Bernie has released campaign images with a crosshair over this senator's face, it would be similar. But he didn't. Palin did.

#334 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

www.google.com

Seriously.

#343 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You people live in alternate universes..

#339 | Posted by boaz

No, we all live in the same Universe.

Some of us refuse to fall for fake news.

Some of us lap it up like candy.

#344 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:53 PM | Reply

#284 Your plan wouldn't work for things. Take gay marriage, for example. Honored in one state but drive across state lines, and it's against the law.

#345 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 01:54 PM | Reply

"That it happened before we were born doesn't change the fact that it happened."

You're absolutely right, Stretch.

#346 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 01:55 PM | Reply

Then what is a Second Amendment remedy, JeffJ?

Ask Sharon Angle.

#347 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:57 PM | Reply

Take gay marriage, for example. Honored in one state but drive across state lines, and it's against the law.

#345 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Republicans like Boaz think you should move and never come back. They want an America that builds a walls to keep anyone who looks or thinks differently than they do out. Out of sight out of mind. They do not want open borders. Perhaps not even in America. Some ghey might sneak over and make them question their manhood.

#348 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 01:59 PM | Reply

Honored in one state but drive across state lines, and it's against the law.

Ok...So?

Don't go across those state lines...

#349 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 01:59 PM | Reply

Sharon Angle?
I'm asking you.
How can you say it's not a call to violence, after saying you don't know what it is?
Oh, you didn't say you don't know what it is?
Well what is it then?

#350 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You people live in alternate universes.." - #339 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 01:49 PM

So says the person who thinks this is the 18th century, not the 21st.

#351 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:03 PM | Reply

Shooter was against Reaganomics and trickle down economics, according to a sign he carried at a rally. Makes sense that he supported Berne and was against Trump.

#352 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:05 PM | Reply

Don't go across those state lines...

#349 | Posted by boaz

lol

Nailed it.

#353 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 02:05 PM | Reply

A so-called "Second Amendment remedy" has the exact same subtly as Reagan having one of his first 1980 general election campaign rallies at the Neshoba County Fair and pledging support for states rights in his speech there.

See also: dog whistle politics.

#354 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:06 PM | Reply

#350 Ask them how they would feel if Pelosi or Schumer called for 2nd amendment remedies against Trump. They'll stop being disingenuous soon enough.

#355 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Ask Sharon Angle." - #347 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 01:57 PM

Was she the person who recommended paying for health care by bartering with chickens?

#356 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:08 PM | Reply

#47 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Either you don't know what play they are presenting in Central Park or you've never read Julius Caesar.

Or you read Julius Caesar and the entire moral went right over your head.

So which is it?

#357 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 02:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Republican logic:

1)

Bat crazy shooter was against Reaganomics

Therefore Reaganomics good

2)

Bat Crazy shooter was a Bernie Supporter

Therefore Bernie supporters are bat crazy

#358 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 02:18 PM | Reply

The power of the federal government isn't harming citizens but ignoring the Constitution would and that is primarily where the states and the federal government come into opposition.

#293 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2017-06-14 01:19 PM | REPLY

Prohibition and the War on Drugs are products of the federal government. Some states, thankfully, are ignoring the Constitution and allowing people to own a plant.

Dissent is not black and white.

#359 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 02:19 PM | Reply

#357,

Who cares...

Stop pretending to kill Presidents, no matter which party they are..

#360 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 02:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#312 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
Another case in point.
#316 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Yes, that proves how very wrong you are. You can't help create an environment ripe for violence and then pretend it isn't your fault someone got violent. People aren't machines. They aren't free from outside pressure. You really need to grow up a bit and understand how the world works rather than how you want it to work.

#361 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Republican logic:
1)
Bat crazy shooter was against Reaganomics
Therefore Reaganomics good
2)
Bat Crazy shooter was a Bernie Supporter
Therefore Bernie supporters are bat crazy
#358 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Strawman logic.

#362 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:22 PM | Reply

Sarah Palin, nor the Tea Part, were not responsible for Giffords shooting.

You people are disgusting.

#363 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

John Schindler @20committee
This morning has been a seminar in how the anonymously heroic kook-right and their Nazi Frogs have exact equivalents on the kook-left.

Broadsword6actual‏ @Broadsword_6
This mornings events are not OK. It should be used in a positive way to rally all on both sides of the aisle to end this partisan hate.

#364 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:24 PM | Reply

Prohibition and the War on Drugs are products of the federal government. Some states, thankfully, are ignoring the Constitution and allowing people to own a plant.

#359 | Posted by sitzkrieg

The gov can do good and bad things. When it serves the rich, it usually does bad things, like the war on drugs.

If you don't want it to do bad things, you should fight to keep it from serving only the rich, and vote for candidate who pursue that goal.

#365 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Stop pretending to kill Presidents..." - #360 | Posted by "col." boaz at 2017-06-14 02:19 PM

For some reason I missed your condemnation of these incidents.

When was that?

Or are you only concerned with "pretending"?

#366 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:25 PM | Reply

"You people are disgusting." - #363 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:24 PM

Why are you so afraid of responding to Snoofy's question, "what is a Second Amendment remedy?"

#367 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Because it's a stupid question.

#368 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sarah Palin, nor the Tea Part, were not responsible for Giffords shooting."

Who said they were?
P.S. What's a Second Amendment remedy?

#369 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:30 PM | Reply

What's stupid about understanding what political leaders are saying?

#370 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:30 PM | Reply

"Because it's a stupid question." - #368 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:29 PM

No it isn't.

Especially in the context of this thread.

But, if you're too much of a coward to answer it, why not just say so?

#371 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:31 PM | Reply

Because it's a stupid question.

#368 | Posted by JeffJ

You're dodging because you know it proves your side has a record of inciting violence.

#372 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who's in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...

Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it's to defend ourselves. And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.


www.huffingtonpost.com

#373 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sarah Palin, nor the Tea Part, were not responsible for Giffords shooting."
Who said they were?

Did you sleep through the aftermath of the Giffords shooting?

#374 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:33 PM | Reply

The question wasn't what's the Second​ Amendment.

The question is what's a Second Amendment remedy.

#375 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:34 PM | Reply

Sarah Palin, nor the Tea Part, were not responsible for Giffords shooting.
You people are disgusting.

#363 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

No, you're a child for thinking people aren't influenced by their environment. You act like people are perfect little isolated machines acting without regard for external pressures.

#376 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 02:35 PM | Reply

Blaming the Giffords shooting on Palin and the Tea Party was an act of pure douchebaggery.

#243 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

So is deflecting to that now.

For someone who doesn't support this administration you sure seem prone to the typical partisan responses to defend this administration.

#377 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're dodging because you know it proves your side has a record of inciting violence.

#372 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Whose "side" recently quipped about blowing up the White House?

Whose "side" is producing a play that ends with a vivid assassination of the current president?

Whose "side" recently held up a decapitated and bloody fake head of our current president?

You know what? If some whack job tries to assassinate Trump, it won't be the fault of a play, or a has-been musician or some "B"-level "comedian".

#378 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:37 PM | Reply

JeffJ would rather pass a kidney stone than say what a Second Amendment remedy is.

Sad!

#379 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

So is deflecting to that now.

Deflection? Are you high? I'm a registered Republican and what happened today was a Bernie Bro attempting to murder a bunch of Republicans and I'm bringing up an incident where a Democratic Congresswoman was shot who happened to have her district have a "crosshair" on it.

For someone who doesn't support this administration you sure seem prone to the typical partisan responses to defend this administration.

#377 | POSTED BY JPW

That must have been meant for a different thread. Trump isn't even part of the discussion on this thread.

#380 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:40 PM | Reply

JeffJ would rather pass a kidney stone than say what a Second Amendment remedy is.
Sad!

#379 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I provided the quote. She was hopeful that it wouldn't come to that.

#381 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 02:41 PM | Reply

Evan McMullin‏ @Evan_McMullin
It's a good time to remember that despite our often deep political differences, we're all still part of the American family.

#382 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sara Palin and the Tea Party were not responsible but their actions played a role.

#383 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 02:42 PM | Reply

"She was hopeful that it wouldn't come to that."

As in "I hope your family member doesn't meet with some terrible, terrible accident".

Why bring up those specific words in the first place if she wasn't referring to what she broached?

#384 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 02:43 PM | Reply

A "First Amendment Remedy" might mean praying for our leaders.

Or it might mean speaking up for (or against) our leaders.

Or it might mean starting a newspaper, or even just writing to a newspaper supporting (or condemning) our leaders.

Or it might mean organizing a peaceful rally again, supporting (or opposing) our leaders.

Since the 2nd Amendment only talks about the right to keep and bear arms, then a "Second Amendment Remedy" would clearly only have to do with firearms.

Sharon Angle said:

"And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems."
If the vote wasn't the "cure for the Harry Reid problems," then clearly a "Second Amendment remedy" would be needed.

And that "Second Amendment remedy" clearly has something to do with firearms.

I don't know what it is so difficult for jeffj to acknowledge that.

#385 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 02:45 PM | Reply

She said the way to avoid 2nd amendment remedies was to vote Harry Reid out of office. That implies that if Harry Reid is elected 2nd amendment remedies are the next option.

You still haven't explained exactly what 2nd amendment remedies are.

We'll keep waiting

#386 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I am sickened by this despicable act," Mr. Sanders said. "Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms.

Bernie should've followed the -------------'s example by offering to pay the legal bills incurred by his violent supporters.

#387 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-06-14 02:48 PM | Reply

The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group.

#292 | POSTED BY TMASTER

No. You're brain is just still mush.

#388 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 02:49 PM | Reply

Maddow on 3 different Sharron Angle quotes on 2nd amendment remedies, includes video of the Angle quotes:

www.youtube.com

#389 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:50 PM | Reply

A second amendment remedy may include calling up a militia..

#390 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 02:50 PM | Reply

"She was hopeful that it wouldn't come to that."
"that"

Come to what, specifically?
(And if your answer is Second Amendment remedies, go ahead and explain what that means too.)

#391 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 02:51 PM | Reply

"A second amendment remedy may include calling up a militia.."

To fight Harry Reid?

#392 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 02:51 PM | Reply

What good does this "who is worse" bickering actually do us? Too much to hope that a tragedy like this actually brings people together. Instead it just makes matters worse.

How about we all take a moment, take in a deep breath, and concede that the other side is not composed entirely of inhuman monsters out to inflict a fate worse than death upon the wild world; that there are patriots and well intentioned, thoughtful, reasonable people all over the political spectrum. And then let us take a moment to remember that talking, even arguing, is a hell of a lot better than shooting each other.

#393 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 02:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 5

Oops, not video of the Angle quotes: audio of them. It was a recurring theme for her.

#394 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 02:52 PM | Reply

That must have been meant for a different thread. Trump isn't even part of the discussion on this thread.

#380 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

It was poorly written but definitely meant for this thread.

You bend over backwards to avoid criticizing the GOP or the right. Oh, you might throw out a feeble critique every now and then but 95% of your posts are spent trying to keep critical eyes away from the right and on the Dems/left, no matter how egregious the topic being discussed.

#395 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

James Hodgkinson's Facebook page, indicates he was a climate change activist with an intense hatred of President Donald Trump and Koch brothers. A fully brainwashed member of the cult that is the new terrorist left.

#311 | POSTED BY TMASTER

Eat ---- Tmaster.

#396 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 02:55 PM | Reply

"A second amendment remedy may include calling up a militia.."

Actually, it really could only mean that. The right likes to pretend those words about a militia aren't really there and that the founders really just wanted everyone to own a gun and carry it around with them like cowboys which, I think, many of the right wingers actually think they are.

#397 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 02:56 PM | Reply

And then let us take a moment to remember that talking, even arguing, is a hell of a lot better than shooting each other.

Talking isn't always better. Action is.

#398 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 02:57 PM | Reply

A second amendment remedy may include calling up a militia..

#390 | Posted by boaz

The Boaz Militia

#399 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 02:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You people live in alternate universes..

#339 | POSTED BY BOAZ

You mean reality?

#400 | Posted by jpw at 2017-06-14 02:59 PM | Reply

I like how JeffJ puts Madonna and Sarah Palin on equal political footing, and also ignores the part where Madonna said she realized that violence wouldn't actually accomplish anything

#401 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 03:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#393

Late to the thread, but Dirk is spot on.

What really matters is realizing that we are all in this together, there are people out there that are unhinged enough that the truly divisive rhetoric from both sides can and has provided the impetus for horrible acts like this.

Like it or not, when either side spews mindless hate (and it happens all too often, even on the DR), someone is going to take that as tacit approval to do something about the object of their anger.

This has to stop.

#402 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2017-06-14 03:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Has Bill Hicks aka Alex Jones called "false flag" yet, or claim those involved are "crisis actors"???? Or does he not do that when his extremist right wing hero's are victims???

Hey Teajadists, I haven't seen you blame the NRA yet? I thought "good guys with guns" were supposed to prevent this sorta thing from happening?? Where was the NRA???

I thought you guys loved "2nd amendment solutions"????

When your Teajadist politicians come to take your guns away, "I told you so!"

#403 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-06-14 03:05 PM | Reply

Sanders is in big trouble. Last week, he comes out as a Christophobe and now he's a contributor to terrorism.

#404 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:07 PM | Reply

I haven't read the thread yet, or followed the news all day, so here is my Rush to Judgement (s)....
Fat, white, 60-something former Home Inspector who supportedBernie?

#405 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-06-14 03:08 PM | Reply

"Sanders is in big trouble. Last week, he comes out as a Christophobe and now he's a contributor to terrorism."

This is the guy who just told me I take things too seriously.

Seriously.

#407 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 03:11 PM | Reply

#401

Kindly illustrate where Sarah Palin advocated violence.

#408 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 03:11 PM | Reply

... and now he's a contributor to terrorism.

The dumbest comment of the day contest is over. We have a winner.

Thanks to everyone who entered.

#409 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 03:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

- he's a contributor to terrorism.

One could say that about Trump per several recent violent incidents because of Trump's rhetoric... Sanders had produced no such rhetoric.

#410 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:18 PM | Reply

LastAmerican is playing the Giffords game.

Disgusting.

#411 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 03:18 PM | Reply

thehill.com

GOP Rep gets threating email...

The office of Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.) received a threatening email with the subject line "One down, 216 to go ... ," shortly after a shooter opened fire on GOP lawmakers who were at a congressional baseball practice, according to her office.

The person who sent the email then wrote in the body of the email, "Did you NOT expect this?"

"Did you NOT expect this? When you take away ordinary peoples very lives in order to pay off the wealthiest among us, your own lives are forfeit. Certainly, your souls and morality were lost long before. Good riddance," the email said.

#412 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 03:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"When you take away ordinary peoples very lives in order to pay off the wealthiest among us"

The complaint is justified, the violence is not.

#413 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rep. Tonko: "Conciliatory" Tone In Washington After Shooting

wamc.org

We can only hope, and I hope Republicans respond by making their health care bill public and allowing debate. I also hope they have the courage to show up at town halls, with appropriate security, to answer people's questions. You are the people's Congress, and you are not operating in a vacuum as today's shooting demonstrates. Violence is not justified. Neither is playing around with people's lives and one sixth of the economy without public input.

#414 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:24 PM | Reply

"Sanders is in big trouble. Last week, he comes out as a Christophobe and now he's a contributor to terrorism."
This is the guy who just told me I take things too seriously.
Seriously.
#407 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Come on!!! Are you denying this?

Sanders said that Republicans are taking away health care and people will die as a direct cause of this!!!! A man went and shot Republicans today.

Sanders used a religious test in a Congressional hearing last week.

Don't mean to embarrass you, but you're too easy. Do you really not know this? Do you ignore things like this?

#415 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:24 PM | Reply

LastAmerican is playing the Giffords game.
Disgusting.
#411 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

How so? (this is going to be interesting)

#416 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:25 PM | Reply

- people will die as a direct cause of this!

They will. Some percent of the 20 million will die because of this.

#417 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're blaming Sanders for this shooting.

#418 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 03:27 PM | Reply

Paul Ryan's take: Let's say a prayer and then get back to cutting off people's health insurance so they die soon and penniless.

#419 | Posted by Bubba10 at 2017-06-14 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The complaint is justified

BS. Why, just because you agree with it?

That complain isn't justified..

#420 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 03:28 PM | Reply

Come on!!! Are you denying this?
Sanders said that Republicans are taking away health care and people will die as a direct cause of this!!!! A man went and shot Republicans today.
Sanders used a religious test in a Congressional hearing last week.
Don't mean to embarrass you, but you're too easy. Do you really not know this? Do you ignore things like this?
#415 | POSTED BY LASTAMERICAN

He didn't use violent metaphors or suggest anything of the sort. No Second Amendment Remedies. No watering the tree of liberty. No cross hairs on a map.

Tell me you understand the difference.

#421 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 03:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sanders said that Republicans are taking away health care and people will die as a direct cause of this!"

Well that's the truth. Republicans ARE taking away health care and people WILL die as a direct cause of this. Did you never take macrostatistics, or did you just flunk the class?

"A man went and shot Republicans today."

You missed the correlation is not causation class as well.

"Don't mean to embarrass you"

I'm not the one you're embarrassing.

#422 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

- Why, just because you agree with it?

No, because it's what we in the real world call, "a fact". You should try one sometime.

#423 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:30 PM | Reply

I said I worried something like this would happen after the House passed their version of the health care bill and then went to the WH for a cigar and beer "we're so proud of ourselves" party. I was trolled by folks who said I was calling for someone to kill the president. I wasn't calling on anyone to anything violent, and I wasn't even thinking about Trump but about Gabby Gifford. You didn't have to be psychic to see that something like this could happen.

#424 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

- Paul Ryan's take: Let's say a prayer and then get back to cutting off people's health insurance so they die soon and penniless.

The Republican Way.

#425 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:31 PM | Reply

You missed the correlation is not causation class as well.

Here ya go:

twitter.com

Danforth, I can't believe that you would deny this that the Left are doing this!!!

Are you really trying to say that there is no call to violence?

#426 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:34 PM | Reply

"The complaint is justified
BS. Why, just because you agree with it?"

Because it is true. When you take away healthcare from 20 million people a certain percentage of them will die because of it.

#427 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 03:35 PM | Reply

" I can't believe that you would deny this that the Left are doing this!!!"

That crap means no more to me than all the right-wingers talking about "watering the tree of liberty" means to you.

Back to your claim: do you actually dispute the fact people will die as a direct result if Rs take healthcare away from millions of people?

#428 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 03:37 PM | Reply

#426

Funny, that doesn't look like Bernie Sanders in that tweet.

#429 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:37 PM | Reply

"Well that's the truth. Republicans ARE taking away health care and people WILL die as a direct cause of this."

I said to a friend last night: The GOP health care bill will be a death threat to some and a death sentence to others. And for no good reason. All so they can give tax cuts to the wealthy. They are cavalierly playing around with millions of people's lives as if they are nothing.

I saw an article online yesterday that said GOP Senators say they aren't getting any calls telling them to save the ACA, so I call my senators yesterday and said I wanted the ACA fixed and saved. I also said that I found what is propertied to be I the bill and the way the GOP is handling the bill by writing it in secrecy to be unconscionable.

#430 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:39 PM | Reply

The scumbags who perpetuated it deserve to be called out on occasion. This happens to be one of those occasions.
#243 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You're calling out the scumbags without identifying who they are; the whole "they know who they are" argument is severely weak.

#431 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 03:39 PM | Reply

- Paul Ryan's take: Let's say a prayer and then get back to cutting off people's health insurance so they die soon and penniless.
The Republican Way.
#425 | POSTED BY CORKY

Fake news.

You really need to be careful spreading it because now people are being shot because of it. I knew it would come to this one day. Ninety-three percent of media professionals either identify as Left or lean that way. 7% identify as Conservative. Because of this, the false narrative will take center stage and be 90% of the content. Now people all over are being violently attacked. First on college campuses and now elected officials.

All I'm saying is that the Left's days of being in control of the media are being rolled back and I'm very glad to see it happen.

#432 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:40 PM | Reply

WASHINGTON -- President Trump, a political agitator pressed into the unfamiliar new role of soothing a nation, called for bipartisan unity in his first statement responding to the shooting Wednesday morning of a congressman and four others on a suburban Virginia baseball diamond.

Mr. Trump, known for on-air improvisation and flouting presidential convention, approached this early test of his leadership with a gravity and sense of focus not seen since his well-received address to a joint session of Congress in February, when he called for a new era of bipartisan cooperation.

The president followed the dignified script established by his predecessors as mass shootings have become more prevalent over the past decade, delivering a solemn two-minute statement in the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House during which he appeared shaken by what he called "a very brutal, brutal assault."

Yet Mr. Trump is not a typical president coping with a crisis at a time of settled civility. Moving beyond the confrontational, personal, rhetorically violent and at times divisive tone he has infused in politics will be no easy task.

www.nytimes.com

#433 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:41 PM | Reply

The healthcare system is fine. We need to allow more time to allow the laws passed years ago to come to full fruition.
We are jumping the gun on legislation that was perfect. It is too good to mess with.

#434 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 03:43 PM | Reply

- Fake news.

Only an idiot would tell us that when the GOP takes 20 million people of off health care, there will not be deaths because of that.

#435 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:43 PM | Reply

#430

This is exactly why the Dems passed this without a single Republican vote. Because they knew this reaction would happen.
We have become exactly what our forefather's feared. When we can vote ourselves our own money, we have lost the republic..

#436 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 03:44 PM | Reply

It's too bad so many districts are gerrymandered. Then our elected officials would fear what they really should fear: the ballot box.

#437 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:45 PM | Reply

The -------------'s quote on Hillary Clinton: ‘If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do folks, although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is'

#438 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-06-14 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#401
Kindly illustrate where Sarah Palin advocated violence."

Define "Second Amendment remedy" and you'll have your answer.

#439 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 03:46 PM | Reply

#438 |

These clowns are telling us that Sanders used that same kind of rhetoric.... they are lying.

#440 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 03:46 PM | Reply

"This is exactly why the Dems passed this without a single Republican vote. Because they knew this reaction would happen."

The Democrats passed a Republican sanctioned health care bill that was based on Romney care because they thought some in the GOP would sign on and help shape the bill. They did not anticipate Republicans tactic of "we will give Obama nothing," which literally started on day one of his administration. If Democrats had done what they truly wanted, they would have instituted Medicare for all.

#441 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:49 PM | Reply

I said to a friend last night: The GOP health care bill will be a death threat to some and a death sentence to others. And for no good reason. All so they can give tax cuts to the wealthy. They are cavalierly playing around with millions of people's lives as if they are nothing.
I saw an article online yesterday that said GOP Senators say they aren't getting any calls telling them to save the ACA, so I call my senators yesterday and said I wanted the ACA fixed and saved. I also said that I found what is propertied to be I the bill and the way the GOP is handling the bill by writing it in secrecy to be unconscionable.
#430 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

I really don't understand why reasonably educated people don't know what's going on. What you just said is false and based on the false narrative you've probably heard from MSNBC or CNN.

NOTHING HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED YET! But, I can tell you this that people are losing their health care access -- can't see a doctor!!! Because of Obamacare.

The House bill is DOA. It was probably set up to fail. The reality is that a Republican House and Senate can't get a bill through that is any better than the train wreck we have now and the ultimate solution is going to be that Obamacare will be repealed and the issue sent back to the states where it belongs and where it was working before the train wreck. Before Obamacare, everyone in Colorado had health insurance and paying about 1/3 the cost of what it is now. I was in the coop because I have a preexisting condition and was paying $235/month with $2k deduct. Now I'm paying almost 700 a month!!!

spreading the falsehood is unconscionable!

#442 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:50 PM | Reply

#439

I can't find a quote where Sarah Palin used that phrase. Sharron Angle did, but I can't find Palin saying it.

Perhaps if you could provide the full quote, in context....

#443 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 03:50 PM | Reply

Talking isn't always better. Action is.

#398 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-06-14 02:57 PM | FLAG:

What do you mean by "action?" When you write "action" I see "violence." Perhaps that is not what you mean this time?

#444 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 03:52 PM | Reply

"The power of the federal government isn't harming citizens but ignoring the Constitution would and that is primarily where the states and the federal government come into opposition."

You mean like those states (or cities) ignoring that second amendments...is that what you're referring to?

"Not a hero, just a voter motivated by compassion and science, instead of fear, greed, and ignorance like you."

No. You're motivated by your own moral compass, which you regard as superior to the moral compasses of all others, therefor requiring the suppression of all those with inferior moral compasses.

You're really no different than any other evangelical other than in your choice of faith.

#445 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 03:53 PM | Reply

If Democrats had done what they truly wanted, they would have instituted Medicare for all.

#441 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Democrats didn't have the votes in their own party for the public option (which is a Trojan Horse for single payer). They were never going to get Medicare for all.

Axelrod advised Obama to give up on going big and to instead go for incremental changes because he thought that was the only way to get some GOP support.

#446 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 03:53 PM | Reply

"States allowing for anything from slavery to child labor to forced prostitution is why we have a national federal government."

Don't forget burning Jews and Gypsies...

#447 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 03:54 PM | Reply

All we heard about when the ACA was being debated and passed was that it would result in "death panels." Palin often said that would happen. The ACA gave millions health care insurance that never had it before, but now that Trumpcare wants to take that insurance away from 23 million people, we are supposed to pretend that isn't going to have a potential life and death impact on them? I don't think so.

#448 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:54 PM | Reply

These clowns are telling us that Sanders used that same kind of rhetoric.... they are lying.
#440 | POSTED BY CORKY

You should probably stop paying attention to fake news and find out what's really happening out there:

bernie-sanders-unconstitutional-religious-litmus-test

#449 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-14 03:55 PM | Reply

What do you mean by "action?" When you write "action" I see "violence." Perhaps that is not what you mean this time?

No, I don't mean violence. I mean something other than talking that has effect. The Republicans were "talking" when ACA was passed the last time. They always talk about "listening to your voice", but when it comes time, they ignore your voice to not do their pet project and force ACA on everyone..

That's what Im talking about..

#450 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 03:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

No. You're motivated by your own moral compass, which you regard as superior to the moral compasses of all others, therefor requiring the suppression of all those with inferior moral compasses.
You're really no different than any other evangelical other than in your choice of faith.

#445 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2017-06-14 03:53 PM | FLAG:

And just how do you think you are different?

#451 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 03:57 PM | Reply

and where it was working before the train wreck.

That is the falsehood you are promoting and many Americans know it, not because the media has told them so but based on their personal experience or on the experience of people they know.

#452 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 03:58 PM | Reply

The left wing protestors are fast growing into a terrorist group.
#292 | POSTED BY TMASTER

A single data set out of hundreds of thousands.

You're perception of "fast" is way out of whack.

#453 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 03:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

No, I don't mean violence. I mean something other than talking that has effect. The Republicans were "talking" when ACA was passed the last time. They always talk about "listening to your voice", but when it comes time, they ignore your voice to not do their pet project and force ACA on everyone..
That's what Im talking about..

#450 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-06-14 03:57 PM | FLAG:

Fair enough. Much as I wish we could hash all this stuff out over tea, taking to the streets does seem to be necessary much of the time.

#454 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 04:00 PM | Reply

"Obamacare will be repealed and the issue sent back to the states where it belongs and where it was working before the train wreck."

YOU LIE.

Before the ACA, it was all about coverage denials, high-risk pools, pre-existing conditions, record insurance company profits, and medical inflation at 4x the inflation rate.

#455 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 04:01 PM | Reply

"Before the ACA, it was all about coverage denials, high-risk pools, pre-existing conditions, record insurance company profits, and medical inflation at 4x the inflation rate."

And let's not forget unpaid medical costs were the leading cause of bankruptcy.

#456 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 04:04 PM | Reply

"Before Obamacare, everyone in Colorado had health insurance"

Posts the guy who actually said "spreading the falsehood is unconscionable!"

Link to proof, please. Or retract.

#457 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-14 04:04 PM | Reply

"I can't find a quote where Sarah Palin used that phrase. Sharron Angle did, but I can't find Palin saying it."

Huh, I guess I meant Sharron Angle all this time I've been saying Sarah Palin. Derp!

But I'm not sure why it would matter, since you said it's not an endorsement of violence.

#458 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 04:05 PM | Reply

If Congress does nothing on health care it collapses as is. There are already some states for which there are no options (1 choice, some going to zero options). The push for inaction or obstruction is worse than doing something that would be viable IMO.

You know the reason people would "lose coverage" is because they'd opt out without an IRS penalty, right?

#459 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-06-14 04:05 PM | Reply

Who cares...
Stop pretending to kill Presidents, no matter which party they are..
#360 | POSTED BY BOAZ

I care. I'm interested in the framework that you're basing your opinion on. I've spoken to another individual who didn't know that the play being presented in Central Park was Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. After telling him that it was, his perception of the topic completely changed. It's not some random assassination play showing Trump being brutally murdered. But I wouldn't expect understanding from people who refuse to read the details of a story and only base their perceptions off of Drudge Report front page headlines, such as my buddy. At least he was well read enough to understand the deeper meaning of Trump's depiction as Julius Caesar. Are you?

Clearly NOT if you don't care. So save the DR space if that's so. No retort necessary.

#460 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:09 PM | Reply

Did you sleep through the aftermath of the Giffords shooting?

#374 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

If it was so common, you can easily identify who it was partaking, no? You're not calling anyone out without identifying who you're talking about.

#461 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:12 PM | Reply

But I'm not sure why it would matter, since you said it's not an endorsement of violence.
#458 |

"Don't Retreat - Reload!"

Clearly a reference to getting that Pez dispenser filled up with delicious candy again.

#462 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2017-06-14 04:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

You know the reason people would "lose coverage" is because they'd opt out without an IRS penalty, right?

Tell that to all the Medicaid recipients, many of whom are Trump voters, who will lose coverage. Tell that to seniors and folks with pre-existing conditions who stand to lose coverage because they will no longer be able to afford it.

#463 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 04:13 PM | Reply

Huh, I guess I meant Sharron Angle all this time I've been saying Sarah Palin. Derp!

No biggie.

But I'm not sure why it would matter, since you said it's not an endorsement of violence.

#458 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

The quote from her that I reproduced above didn't come across to me as advocating violence. Her comment is along the lines of those who are claiming they aren't surprised by this shooting given what Republicans are trying to do with healthcare.

#464 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 04:15 PM | Reply

In 2010, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) posted on social media "Don't Retreat, Instead – RELOAD!" while pointing to a list of Obamacare-supporting lawmakers.

During her 2014 campaign, freshman Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) said she believed in her right to carry guns to defend herself "whether it's from an intruder, or whether it's from the government, should they decide that my rights are no longer important."

Failed 2010 Senate candidate Sharron Angle (R-NV) warned that "if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."

And Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz's (D-FL) congressional challenger in 2009, Republican Robert Lowry, shot at a human-shaped gun range target with Wasserman Schultz's initials written on it.

talkingpointsmemo.com

#465 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 04:15 PM | Reply

and now he's a contributor to terrorism.
#404 | POSTED BY LASTAMERICAN

No more than Britney Spears being a contributor to "best mothering practices."

#466 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:18 PM | Reply

"The quote from her that I reproduced above didn't come across to me as advocating violence. Her comment is along the lines of those who are claiming they aren't surprised by this shooting given what Republicans are trying to do with healthcare."

I posted a link earlier that quotes all the times she made the comment. I was one of the ones who said I wouldn't be surprised if a desperate, angry person became violent. Don't conflate that with a politician saying she hoped 2nd amendment remedies wouldn't be necessary. !) I'm no a politician (or trying to be one); and 2) 2nd amendment remedies aren't about a single angry individual taking his anger out in a violent way. At least not the way I understand it.

#467 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-14 04:22 PM | Reply

If it was so common, you can easily identify who it was partaking, no? You're not calling anyone out without identifying who you're talking about.

#461 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

www.google.com

#468 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 04:24 PM | Reply

This is why NRA membership should be a requirement to own a firearm..

#469 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 04:25 PM | Reply

With so many left wing terrorists out there we need to heavily arm ourselves. And expand audio and visual surveillance of the general public. And arrest the lefty political agitators and their Quisling sympathizers in the mass media. It's the only way we will be safe. (Share on Facebook if you agree.)

#470 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-06-14 04:27 PM | Reply

#460...

If you don't understand how a depiction of killing any president is aweful..

Then you are beyond help...

#471 | Posted by boaz at 2017-06-14 04:27 PM | Reply

Please cite incidents of left wing terror.

The vast majority of terrorists, including ISIS, The Taliban, Hamas, and The LRA are right wing religious extrmists

#472 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 04:30 PM | Reply

"If you don't understand how a depiction of killing any president is aweful..
Then you are beyond help..."

Including the 4 out of 45 that were actually killed with handguns while serving???

:)

#473 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 04:32 PM | Reply

Oops only 3 out of 4 were killed with handguns.
Funny how 100% of them were killed with guns, not knives or bombs or car antennas... Because I frequently hear from right wingers those things are just as deadly...

#474 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 04:36 PM | Reply

"This is why NRA membership should be a requirement to own a firearm.."

Do you even understand how utterly ridiculous and unConstitutional too that would be?

#475 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 04:38 PM | Reply

Obamacare gave people who didn't have insurance, insurance.
It allowed people to get health care.

It allowed people to lose the insurance they had because adjustments had to be made.

Some don't pay for it.
Some do.
Some pay even more than they did before.

In the end, it doesn't really matter.

Now we all have the greatest program the Fed could give.

Why is it failure to not fix what is great?

#476 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-06-14 04:39 PM | Reply

Something must be done to stop this recent uptick of white on white crime.

Savages.

#477 | Posted by fresno500 at 2017-06-14 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Yes, you are right. Just wanted to make liberal brains explode. I agree any "law" regarding gun control is unconstitutional. My mistake.

#478 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 04:44 PM | Reply

www.google.com
#468 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

WOh, I thought you were referring to people here on the DR. Are you? Or just "calling out" the Daily Beast and NY Daily News, as they are the only ones in your link suggesting Palin has any responsibility.

Gawker: "Shot Congresswoman Was in Sarah Palin's 'Crosshairs'"
NY Daily News: "Daly: Gifford's Blood on Palin's hands"

The others don't seem to do so:

CBS News: "Sarah Palin Criticized Over Gabrielle Giffords Presence on 'Target List'"
The Atlantic: "Did Sarah Palin's Target Map Play Role in Giffords Shooting?"
The Daily Beast: "Garbirelle Giffords: Don't Blame Sarah Palin"
Breitbart: "Remember when Gabrielle Giffords Shooting Was Sarah Palin's Fault?"

Besides, why so lazy? Olbermann or Krugman or Media Matters could have been easy to go to, but I was far more interested in your criticisms of those here on the DR.

Krugman, Olbermann, Gawker, and the NY Daily News have none of my attention. Curious why they'd have yours.

Anyone here on the DR that you're calling out?

#479 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:45 PM | Reply

" I agree any "law" regarding gun control is unconstitutional."

Although apparently the courts don't.

" My mistake."

Yes, yes it is.

#480 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 04:48 PM | Reply

Anyone here on the DR that you're calling out?

#479 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Sycophant
Snoofy
Hatter

#481 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 04:49 PM | Reply

We've been properly instructed by the gun humpers that there is nothing that we can do about these situations because of the slimmest, remotest, most marginal possibility that we could infringe on someones 2nd amendment rights. So what's all the fuss? Just because it was some white people in Congress? Why should they have any more standing or consideration than a bunch of gay folks in and Orlando nightclub? Why should this be of greater concern than 20+ elementary school children?

Doesn't matter that it's left wing nut, right wing nut, unaffiliated nut, domestic violence criminal or anyone else. We as a nation have decided that we just don't care if nuts and criminals have guns. So the long view is just to sit back an watch the blood flow and not get your blood pressure up.

#482 | Posted by Reagan58 at 2017-06-14 04:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you don't understand how a depiction of killing any president is aweful..
Then you are beyond help...
#471 | POSTED BY BOAZ

I do understand, yet the moral of the story is CLEARLY more important than saving the audience from the inappropriateness or dismay of witnessing a POTUS being assassinated. Well, that's clear if you know the moral of the story of course.

With that said, why are you ignoring the question? You'd understand my point if you read the play. Excuse me for imploring you to further educate yourself beyond your current ignorance (have you picked up Michelle Alexander's book yet? It's been more than 2 years since I recommended it to you).

But who cares, right? Ignorance should not only be our sole frame of reference, but should also determine policy, yes?

#483 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:53 PM | Reply

You bend over backwards to avoid criticizing the GOP or the right. Oh, you might throw out a feeble critique every now and then but 95% of your posts are spent trying to keep critical eyes away from the right and on the Dems/left, no matter how egregious the topic being discussed.

#395 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2017-06-14 02:52 PM

My posts have more criticisms of the GOP and the right than yours criticizing Democrats and the left.

The self-irony is strong.

#484 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 04:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#481 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Like pulling teeth.

Thanks.

#485 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:55 PM | Reply

My posts have more criticisms of the GOP and the right than yours criticizing Democrats and the left.

In this discussion, maybe, but JPW is a harsher critic of the center-left Hillary voter and the Clintons than you are of anybody on the right.

#486 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So the long view is just to sit back an watch the blood flow and not get your blood pressure up.

#482 | POSTED BY REAGAN58

Of course there are some exceptions, Radical Fundamentalist Islamist (which is contradictory on the surface, I know, but the secondary meaning does fit) and liberals.

#487 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-06-14 04:59 PM | Reply

Not sure what the courts have to do with what the Framers called God given rights..

#488 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 05:00 PM | Reply

That's like saying your posts about tornadoes complain more about damage they cause than my posts about sunny weather do.

I speak poorly of any politician who advocates hurting my fellow Americans. It isn't my fault that its almost always a republican doing it

#489 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 05:01 PM | Reply

In this discussion, maybe, but JPW is a harsher critic of the center-left Hillary voter and the Clintons than you are of anybody on the right.

#486 | POSTED BY RCADE

Have you seen my posts regarding Trump?

#490 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Have you seen my posts regarding Trump?" - #490 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:01 PM

You mean the ones where you excuse Trump's behavior by claiming Obama was worse?

Those posts regarding Trump?

#491 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 05:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Not sure what the courts have to do with what the Framers called God given rights..

#488 | POSTED BY 45_LONG_COLT AT 2017-06-14 05:00 PM | FLAG:

Oh, just little things like determining whether laws are constitutional. Surely you learned all this in school.

#492 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:06 PM | Reply

Not sure what the courts have to do with what the Framers called God given rights..

#488 | POSTED BY 45_LONG_COLT AT 2017-06-14 05:00 PM | FLAG:

There is no god. Proven conclusively be the events of November 8, 2016.

#493 | Posted by Reagan58 at 2017-06-14 05:06 PM | Reply

Here are my most recent comments about Trump:

Trump 'Considering' Firing Mueller
If firing Comey was bad optics....
A special counsel never should have happened in the first place. But, Trump is SO self-destructive and so incapable of knowing what to say and when to say it...he brought this on himself.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-13 03:03 PM | REPLY

Trump Just Held Weirdest Cabinet Meeting Ever
Jesus. What an insecure egomaniac.
I had to click the link to make sure it wasn't an Onion piece before making my comment.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-12 03:27 PM | REPLY

Priebus Has a Deadline to Clean Up Trumpster Fire
President Donald Trump has given White House chief of staff Reince Priebus until Independence Day on July 4 to get the White House in order or lose his job.
It seems like an impossible job given that the biggest impediment to getting the White House in order is the president himself.
Trump has got to be the most self-destructive president in this nation's history.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-12 01:11 PM | REPLY

Dershowitz schools Toobin and gives his former student a C-
#9 | POSTED BY COOKFISH
By itself, that's probably true. But it could be a brick in an impeachment wall.

#494 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Have you seen my posts regarding Trump?

Your comments about Trump are usually full of they-did-it-firstism and just-as-badism. I think you should acknowledge Trump is on a level of bad we've not seen before. He's spectacularly unfit for office.

#495 | Posted by rcade at 2017-06-14 05:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

You mean the ones where you excuse Trump's behavior by claiming Obama was worse?
Those posts regarding Trump?

#491 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2017-06-14 05:06 PM | FLAG:

Hey, stop attacking JEFFJ! Don't you know that President Obama was ALSO involved in a discussion in which he defended himself really poorly? Or was it a Clinton? In any case, we should all think about that instead of whatever it was we were just talking about. But not too much because that would be THREADJACKING!!1

#496 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:09 PM | Reply

A second amendment remedy may include calling up a militia..
BoazO the clown
++++++++++++++++++++++

You mean like the TaliBundy's????????

Oh wait, they are in prison like they belong!

#497 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-06-14 05:10 PM | Reply

I went back a bit further and found these:

Trump Says Media is Trying to Stop Him From Tweeting
So, now he's going to play the victim card?
The media loves Trump's tweets. The stupidity of his tweets helps drive the 24/7 news cycle.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-07 11:10 AM | REPLY

Trump Will Live-Tweet During Comey Testimony
Does he have advisers? If yes, does he listen to them?
I have never seen a president who undermines himself more than Trump.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-07 11:06 AM | REPLY

ABC, NBC, CBS to Carry Comey Testimony Live
It's my opinion based upon publicly made statements.
It's possible that there is stuff that hasn't been revealed that is far more incriminating. Hence, conducting an investigation.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-06 04:18 PM | REPLY

ABC, NBC, CBS to Carry Comey Testimony Live
Based upon what has already been revealed, Trump didn't obstruct the investigation.
That doesn't mean that his actions (and words) with Comey on this issue were appropriate.
Remember: Impeachment is a political remedy, not a legal one. Trump doesn't have to have committed a crime to have abused his powers.
Comey's testimony will probably be much ado about very little, but, who knows....could be interesting.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-06 04:06 PM | REPLY

ABC, NBC, CBS to Carry Comey Testimony Live
What's your sober opinion on Trump U?

#36 | POSTED BY ZED
To me, it seemed like a bit of a scam - Over-promise and under-deliver. It seemed like people ponied up a pretty penny and didn't receive much of value in return.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-06 04:00 PM | REPLY

#498 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Then you think men give rights?
Romans 1:19...if you would stop long enough to look..

since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Keep looking..

since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

#499 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 05:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

That's going back through 3 pages of my post history and those are every comment I made pertaining to Trump.

#500 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:12 PM | Reply

#498 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-14 05:11 PM | FLAG:

We all know you only said those things then so you could bring them up now.

#501 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

We all know you only said those things then so you could bring them up now.

#501 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

That was good. Kudos.

#502 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-06-14 05:14 PM | Reply

"it seemed like a bit of a scam ...It seemed like people ponied up a pretty penny and didn't receive much of value in return." - POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-06 04:00 PM

It "seemed like"?

Devastating condemnation. /snark

#503 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 05:15 PM | Reply

"Then you think men give rights?"

Some people do. Not everyone shares your beliefs.

#504 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:15 PM | Reply

"it seemed like a bit of a scam ..." - POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2017-06-06 04:00 PM

"A bit of a scam"?

That's like catching your wife in bed with another guy and claiming it was just "a bit of infidelity."

#505 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 05:17 PM | Reply

"Based upon what has already been revealed, Trump didn't obstruct the investigation.
That doesn't mean that his actions (and words) with Comey on this issue were appropriate."

During Trump's interview with Roger Holt he as much as admitted he did. He completely contradicted the stated reasons for the Comey firing and said it was about the Russian investigation. He was trying to shut down the investigation which would be considered to be obstruction of justice by any fair minded person. But when last were Republicans fair minded?

#506 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-14 05:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

... A little bit pregnant

#507 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-14 05:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So the Republican sponsor of a bill that makes it easier to buy silencers and armor-piercing bullets (that, coincidentally, was supposed to have a hearing today) was one of the legislators at the ballpark. Can someone explain why we need to make it easier to buy silencers and armor-piercing bullets?

#508 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-06-14 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Even Deflecticon is jumping off the trump bus.

#509 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-06-14 05:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's like catching your wife in bed with another guy and claiming it was just "a bit of infidelity."

#505 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2017-06-14 05:17 PM | FLAG:

Well, you know President Obama also used cautious, measure language! Point, set, and match, liberals!

#510 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And just how do you think you are different?"

Because I have no interest in having a government that would impose the will of others on our dear friend, even if his arguments resemble those my 10 year old might make. If he wants to devote his money to providing healthcare for someone else, I wish him all the best. If he wants to homeschool his kids on a steady diet of Marx and Howard Zinn...it's unfortunate for the kids, but at present that would be his right.

#511 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 05:32 PM | Reply

"Because I have no interest in having a government that would impose the will of others on our dear friend, even if his arguments resemble those my 10 year old might make."

Right. You'd prefer big corporations do the coercing and you pretend like there is a difference. Indeed there might be: they aren't accountable in the way a government must be.

#512 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 05:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Then you think men give rights?" - #499 | Posted by 45_Long_Colt at 2017-06-14 05:12 PM

Men certainly have a well-documented history of taking rights away.

And, as highlighted in Job 1:21, he who giveth can taketh away.

#513 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 05:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Eisenhower was a liberal! Thanks Boaz I try to learn something each day!

#514 | Posted by cjk85 at 2017-06-14 05:46 PM | Reply

Can someone explain why we need to make it easier to buy silencers and armor-piercing bullets?

#508 | POSTED BY MONTECORE AT 2017-06-14 05:25 PM | REPLY

The "AP bullet ban" was a re-classification of 5.56 "green tip" ammo. The bullet doesn't actually meet the ATF's AP criteria, the ATF claimed it was a publishing error, then reclassified them anyways. Congress is pre-empting the lawsuits and forcing a rule change via legislation. As a practical matter, it's a stupid ban, you can go buy any number of rifle bullets right now that will make swiss cheese out of any vest.

The silencer rule change just lowers the price point. Want one? $600. Post-legislation, they'll be about $300. If you're not afraid of taking an illegal route, just remove the flash hider from any .223 rifle and screw on a delco fuel filter. Legal or illegal, you still need the correct subsonic ammo and to tune your gas block on a semi-automatic or it will not cycle correctly.

#515 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 06:16 PM | Reply

Could you do the difference between carts and mags now, pleeeeeeeze?

That's my favorite.

#516 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 06:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Right. You'd prefer big corporations do the coercing and you pretend like there is a difference."

I'd prefer that no one did, but I get that as a progressive, authoritarian government is a given. You're just trying to create a contrast between an authoritarian state you would support and one you wouldn't...never acknowledging the possibility of society that wasn't under someone's thumb.

"Indeed there might be: they aren't accountable in the way a government must be."

--------. With the exception of those firms who only service government, businesses always answer directly to consumers. Which means they answer directly to the taxpayers. And if you're willing to take a moment an be honest, you'll acknowledge that it's no so much corporations or business you find fault with, but the consumers who do business with them. Because without those consumers, the businesses would be non-existent.

Of course if you say you're going after consumers acting in their own best interest in order to achieve a personal political goal, you're going to get roundly ignored.

#517 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 06:38 PM | Reply

"--------. With the exception of those firms who only service government, businesses always answer directly to consumers. Which means they answer directly to the taxpayers."

Not really. Absent government interference, they can exploit and manipulate the public to their heart's content. That is what you want to move us towards.

"I'd prefer that no one did,"

Except corporations.

" but I get that as a progressive, authoritarian government is a given."

Laughably untrue, of course. Scandinavia is socialist and as free as the US... maybe more so.

#518 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 06:48 PM | Reply

"The quote from her that I reproduced above didn't come across to me as advocating violence."

But Madonna saying she thought about blowing up the White House, but realized no good would come from violence, that did come across to you as advocating violence.

And here we are.

#519 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 06:51 PM | Reply

"consumers acting in their own best interest"

Is there any other way consumers act?

My best interest?
How do you know what my best interest is?
/Pepsi

#520 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 06:54 PM | Reply

Somebody please let Afk out of the Retort jail before he has an aneurysm.

#521 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-06-14 06:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

I just bought 30000 shares of Irish Spring stock based on you filthy lefties. I'm retiring at 8:15 tomorrow.

#522 | Posted by wisgod at 2017-06-14 07:04 PM | Reply

Zero surprise that a rabid, radical liberal took violent action against "The Man;" in this case, Republican Congresspersons, staffers, and Capitol police.

#523 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-06-14 07:06 PM | Reply

"Zero surprise ..." - #523 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-06-14 07:06 PM

Zero surprise that you commented without bothering to read even a single post here.

#524 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 07:07 PM | Reply

The fat liberal fuqtard that decided to shoot up a baseball practice is merely one more piece of evidence that liberalism is indeed, a mental disorder.

#525 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-06-14 07:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#523 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT

Don't forget the lobbyist who got shot.

I wonder if the lobbyist was there to toss handfuls of Benjamins on the ground in front of them whilst they played.

#526 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-06-14 07:10 PM | Reply

Zero surprise that Hans has more excuses than Las Vegas has people.

#527 | Posted by wisgod at 2017-06-14 07:12 PM | Reply

No need to read 500+ posts to comment on today's act of violence by enraged, rabid liberal leaning individual.

#528 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-06-14 07:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I just bought 30000 shares of Irish Spring stock based on you filthy lefties. I'm retiring at 8:15 tomorrow.

Posted by wisgod at 2017-06-14 07:04 PM | Reply

NASTY Soap that dries you up right quick. Oil of Olay is where it's at.

#529 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-06-14 07:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"liberalism is indeed, a mental disorder."

So that why you vote for the party that makes it easier for mentally ill people to legally acquire guns.

#530 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-14 07:18 PM | Reply

They're just mad this took the big Russian investigation off the front page. They thought Trump would be impeached when meals on wheels delivered their subsidized spam at 12 today. Notice how they've been here nonstop?

#531 | Posted by wisgod at 2017-06-14 07:18 PM | Reply

Snooty, what great thing did Obama do for the down trodden again? Golf on their behalf weekly or share his brackets on ESPN? At least he should have subsidized cable, you fool

#532 | Posted by wisgod at 2017-06-14 07:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The fat liberal fuqtard that decided to shoot up a baseball practice is merely one more piece of evidence that liberalism is indeed, a mental disorder.

#525 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT 2017-06-14 07:10 PM | FLAG:

Stop escalating.

#533 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 07:26 PM | Reply

"...liberalism is indeed, a mental disorder." - #525 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-06-14 07:10 PM

Not according to science:

Do Racism, Conservatism, and Low I.Q. Go Hand in Hand?

Lower cognitive abilities predict greater prejudice through right-wing ideology.

Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice

There's no gentle way to put it: People who give in to racism and prejudice may simply be dumb, according to a new study that is bound to stir public controversy."

Political conservatism as motivated social cognition.
Conservatism as a Mental Illness

Republican pols have recently exhibited 10 telltale signs of mental illness.

Researchers help define what makes a political conservative
Is Political Conservatism a Mild Form of Insanity?

Death Fear (among other unsavory attributes) Predicts Republicanism

Your Brain on Politics: The Cognitive Neuroscience of Liberals and Conservatives

Can neuroscience provide evidence for a liberal and conservative thinking style?

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

Peering inside the brain with MRI scans, researchers at University College London found that self-described conservative students had a larger amygdala than liberals. The amygdala is an almond-shaped structure deep in the brain that is active during states of fear and anxiety. Liberals had more gray matter at least in the anterior cingulate cortex, a region of the brain that helps people cope with complexity.

Why Liberals Are More Intelligent Than Conservatives

Liberals think they're more intelligent than conservatives because they are

The Surprising Brain Differences Between Democrats and Republicans

Two new studies further support the theory that our political decision making could have a neurological basis.

Fear as a Disposition and an Emotional State: A Genetic and Environmental Approach to Out-Group Political Preferences
But, then again, you don't believe in science.

#534 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 07:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Could you do the difference between carts and mags now, pleeeeeeeze?
That's my favorite.

#516 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-06-14 06:38 PM | REPLY

carts are what you ride around the grocery store, magazines are what you buy at the register.

#535 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-14 07:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Civil War" doesn't exactly define the growing confrontation in America.

The battleground is our minds.

#536 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2017-06-14 07:37 PM | Reply

In this thread, what was most fun, interesting - and instructive - was to watch "col." boaz transformed from Rambo to Rodney King.

#537 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-14 07:38 PM | Reply

#535

Personally, I do neither, but then the owner of the Nat Inquirer isn't one of my besties either.

#538 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 07:45 PM | Reply

"...they can exploit and manipulate the public to their heart's content. That is what you want to move us towards."

Like...mind control? Do tell.

"Laughably untrue, of course. Scandinavia is socialist and as free as the US... maybe more so."

Seriously? You need government to approve your child's name.

Freedumb!!!

#539 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-14 08:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The battleground is our minds.

#536 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

And currently the Russians are kicking our collective asses on that battlefield and drinking champagne and laughing about it.

How does that make you feel?

#540 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 11:12 PM | Reply

"Like...mind control? Do tell."

Like lying. Until they invent actual mind control and then you bet they will use that too.

"Seriously? You need government to approve your child's name.
Freedumb!!!"

Free elections, less restrictions on drugs, greater respect for women and gays, sounds pretty free to me. All that and a working social safety net too (and a much higher standard of living than your pet capitalisms).

#541 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-06-14 11:15 PM | Reply

Not sure what the courts have to do with what the Framers called God given rights..
#488 | POSTED BY 45_LONG_COLT

What "God given rights"?

I see no where in the Constitution, where the Framers spelled out our rights for us, any mention of any God.

#542 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-14 11:19 PM | Reply

Well false flag operation was a success.

One doesn't go in guns a blazing just to shoot somebody in the leg.

This is too convenient of a distraction from the investigations of this failing administration.

#543 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-06-15 01:38 AM | Reply

"Why do we have the 2nd amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot the government when it becomes tyrannical!"

-- Rand Paul

I wonder if he thought about this while he was getting shot at..

#544 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-06-15 02:45 AM | Reply

"Zero surprise that a rabid, radical liberal took violent action against "The Man;" in this case, Republican Congresspersons, staffers, and Capitol police.
#523 | POSTED BY GONOLES92"

Gun violence is a foregone conclusion in America.
25 people are killed a day with guns, 80 if you count suicides.
You're just figuring this out?
You must be new.

#545 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-15 02:56 AM | Reply

"Why do we have the 2nd amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot the government when it becomes tyrannical!"
-- Rand Paul

I also can't figure out why right-wingers are so freaked out.
This guy's actions are precisely why they claim we have a Second Amendment.
He's taking up arms against what he perceives as tyranny.
That's how it's supposed to work, according to right-wing barrel sniffers.
But when it actually happens, they lose their ----, and even blame the liberal media.
Sad!

#546 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-15 02:59 AM | Reply

Tougher gun control laws are needed. There needs to be a conversation about how radicalized the left has become though. Hollywood and CNN reporters, late night TV hosts to internet bloggers and even sit coms use very disrespectful and often make violent remarks against Trump and the right. We see violent leftist protesters at colleges protesting guest speakers and even left hate groups like black lives matter calling for the death of police while looting and vandalizing. Just think for one moment if the gunman at the ball park was a rabid Trump Supporter shooting Democrats? What would the media be doing? What if the Tea Party movement set cars on fire and looted stores in outrage? If the alt left don't like what you have to say they protest so violently your right to free speech is taken away. CNN hosts take pictures of the presidents head cut off and bloody as a "joke". No wonder a crazy took action into his own hands. The left is self imploding. No one wants their agenda of illegal immigration and unisex bathrooms. It's a joke platform. Many people are upset about Trump's budget cuts and taking a break from the climate agreement. But no one stops to think about the reckless spending Obama did. He doubled the national debt from 10 trillion to 21 trillion. That puts our country into danger of financial collapse. Cuts have to be made and now. The left media pounce on everything Trump does with so much venom it blinds people to the good he does. Hillary lost because everyone knows she had a private email server set up with intent and leaked classified information. Now that she is out of office how much foreign money is "donated" to the Clinton foundation? Not nearly as much, google it. She was and is a crook. We'd be in WW3 now with Russia if she was elected. The fake women's march was a joke. Madonna even "joked" about blowing up the whitehouse remember? Ashley Judd screeched about free tampons. What a joke. The world was waiting to hear from American women and that is what they did while wearing pink ----- hats. How embarrassing. They could of talked about women around the world who really are oppressed, and given them a voice (mostly Muslim women actually but that would upset their Muslim supporters- best to not acknowledge that and keep those women oppressed)

#547 | Posted by SheRa at 2017-06-15 09:12 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"There needs to be a conversation about how radicalized the left has become though."

How about we have a conversation about how radical the fringes of both sides have become? The radical fringe on the right reaches into the WH. Trump embraced Alex Jones and Info Wars, Flynn embraced other RW conspiracy theorists (fake news stories like Clinton and the DNC running a child porn ring out of a pizza parlor in DC). Pizzagate prompted some crazy wingnut to show up there with an assault rifle and fire 3 shots at the restaurant. Before that happened though, the pizza parlor, other businesses in the area and even bands that had performed at the establishment were harassed and some received death threats.

en.wikipedia.org

#548 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-15 09:35 AM | Reply

Awful, inexcusable. I hope very much for all victims to recover.

#549 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-06-15 10:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Sic Semper Tyrannis"

Says so right on the Virginia flag.

What am I missing, Rand Paul?

#550 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-15 10:30 AM | Reply

Posts the guy who actually said "spreading the falsehood is unconscionable!"
Link to proof, please. Or retract.
#457 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Ok, so you think I'm a liar because I destroyed your argument. That's pretty much par for the course.

You live in a bubble! Get out. Learn something and I promise you'll be happier.

#551 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 12:25 PM | Reply

#457 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Here's your link:

connectforhealthco.com

#552 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 12:26 PM | Reply

"so you think I'm a liar because I destroyed your argument."

No, I think you're a liar because you claimed something that wasn't true. Your exact claim was "Before Obamacare, everyone in Colorado had health insurance". That's a bald-faced lie.

"Here's your link:"

That doesn't prove your claim one whit. You're still a liar. And if you believe your link proves anything, you're an idiot as well.

#553 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 12:50 PM | Reply

CHOOSE UP SIDES TONIGHT!

Have the starting pitchers toss a bat and choose up sides like kids do on the playground. The Democratic pitcher should first pick a Republican and vice versa, and then EACH should alternate choosing Democrat, Republican, Democrat, Republican after that. Two mixed teams playing tonight. Might be a start.

#554 | Posted by nimbleswitch at 2017-06-15 12:59 PM | Reply

The NRA, gun-fondlers, and super-conservatives have been citing how "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants," and here we are. I hope you're all happy; although as Saint Bob intoned, "It's a hard raid gonna fall."

#555 | Posted by john47 at 2017-06-15 01:20 PM | Reply

zero surprise that after years of loud proclamations from the pro-gun right that everyone should have guns to fight the government that someone used a gun to fight the government

#556 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-15 01:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Even better. 18 player teams. Each player should be tied by a short rope at the waist to a teammate who is a member of the opposing party. Nobody can do anything unless they work together.

#557 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-15 01:39 PM | Reply

Good thing he was too stupid to use a bomb.

#558 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-15 01:41 PM | Reply

twitter.com

#559 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-15 01:45 PM | Reply

"Here's your link:"
That doesn't prove your claim one whit. You're still a liar. And if you believe your link proves anything, you're an idiot as well.

#553 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

"Here's a link to a health insurance website. Therefore everyone had health insurance."
-LastAmerican

I like this game.

Here's a link to Sphero.com, a Colorado robotics company. Therefore everyone has an android walking around in their home.

#560 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-15 06:58 PM | Reply

"Free elections, less restrictions on drugs, greater respect for women and gays, sounds pretty free to me."

You do realize that government can't show respect to anyone, right? Only people can. And if you like the people of Scandinavia better.

"All that and a working social safety net too (and a much higher standard of living than your pet capitalisms)."

Sounds like an excellent place for those needing a safety net to immigrate to.

#561 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-15 07:09 PM | Reply

"You do realize that government can't show respect to anyone, right?"

Tell that to newly-married gay couples.

#562 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 07:13 PM | Reply

#457 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Here's your link:

connectforhealthco.com

#552 | Posted by LastAmerican

I wonder...does the Last American even realize that this was an exchange created AFTER the ACA?

some interesting info from your link:

Colorado's Own Health Insurance Marketplace

June 1, 2016, marks the 5th anniversary of Connect for Health Colorado. It was on this same date in 2011 that Gov. Hickenlooper signed SB 11-200, the law creating a health insurance marketplace to fit the unique needs of Colorado. Five short years later, Connect for Health Colorado has established itself as the go-to resource for individuals, families and small employers across Colorado to purchase health insurance and get financial assistance to reduce costs.

In Recent News

Nearly lost in all of the attention focused on the debate around the House bill was encouraging news reported by Consumer Reports on the positive impact the Affordable Care Act has had on personal bankruptcies. The number was cut in half after the law took effect, demonstrating the impact medical expenses have on personal budgets. Colorado saw a similar reduction, according to the 2015 Colorado Health Access Survey (page 22).

In Recent News

The most pressing market stabilization measure AHIP recommended is continued funding of Cost Share Reduction (CSR) payments. For those who qualify, CSR payments help pay out of pocket expenses. As a recent Commonwealth Fund brief points out, they can make or break the bottom line for health insurance companies.

The effect the potential loss of CSR payments has on health insurance premiums was made clear Thursday in North Carolina, where Blue Cross and Blue Shield filed for an average 22.9 percent rate increase in 2018, saying it would be only 8.8 percent if Congress funded CSRs, according to an article in the News & Observer of Raleigh.

#563 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-06-15 08:29 PM | Reply

"Tell that to newly-married gay couples."

The laws exhibited by a government are nothing more than the reflection of those who vote.

For the record, I agree with most of what Dirk was addressing. Government has no business telling people they shouldn't marry (although I have a sneaking suspicion that Dirk is vehemently in favor of laws against polygamous marriages). Nor should the government try and stop the recreational use of drugs. Nor should the government recognize that men and women are different...a bathroom should be a bathroom.

Where progressives lose their liberalism is when they demand that government step in and be authoritarian in order to preserve progressive ideals. To me that's no different than stepping in to demand that government preserve conservative ideals. Although I'm sure you'll find some excuse as to why they're waaaaaaaay different.

#564 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-15 09:25 PM | Reply

"The laws exhibited by a government are nothing more than the reflection of those who vote."

So what? Your statement is still hogwash. If you think Oberkfell didn't make gays feel respected, I suggest you ask three.

More to the point, 11 years ago, "those who vote" had voted in Republicans who, by a vast majority, voted to codify gays as 2nd class citizens. Tell me how that's not disrespect.

"I have a sneaking suspicion that Dirk is vehemently in favor of laws against polygamous marriages"

For good reason: it would require an entire canon of new law, unlike granting marriage rights to gay couples. I'll be happy to explain the difference between superseding rights and proportional rights if you need the primer.

"Where progressives lose their liberalism is when they demand that government step in and be authoritarian in order to preserve progressive ideals. "

Like marriage for gay couples? Or do your objections go all the way back to Loving?

#565 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 09:33 PM | Reply

"Or do your objections go all the way back to Loving?"

You're savage today. I love it.

#566 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-06-15 09:39 PM | Reply

"You're savage today. I love it."

Thanks. I've got some time on my hands: I'm back in the hospital, awaiting word if I've had my second heart attack or not.

Angioplasty tomorrow, one way or the other.

#567 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 09:43 PM | Reply

Good luck and best wishes, Danforth.

#568 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-15 10:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks. 22 hours ago, I was convinced I was a dead man. BP was 77/48, and I was being carted out by the ambulance.

To quote Monty Python...I'm not dead yet!

Although after today, I bet there are a few DR posters who wish I was....

#569 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 10:17 PM | Reply

Full recovery wishes to you, too, Gal. I had no idea what you'd been through.

#570 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 10:18 PM | Reply

GODSPEED Danforth. I just spent a couple days in the hospital last month. It's no fun.

#571 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-06-15 10:25 PM | Reply

569

No. Nobody wishes that. If they do then they can go to hell.

Good luck!!!

#572 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-15 10:41 PM | Reply

"For good reason: it would require an entire canon of new law, unlike granting marriage rights to gay couples. I'll be happy to explain the difference between superseding rights and proportional rights if you need the primer."

ALL good reasons to deny people freedom to legally marry whom they choose.

Glad your still alive dude. Hang in there.

#573 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 09:13 AM | Reply

"ALL good reasons to deny people freedom to legally marry whom they choose."

Feel free to propose all the new law that will be needed. No one is stopping you.

First question: Man has five wives, of 31, 22, 18, 14, and 2 years. What rights do each have to his pension?

#574 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 09:24 AM | Reply

"Glad your still alive dude. Hang in there."

Thanks for the kind words. O.R. this afternoon.

If I never post after about 3:30 ET today, you'll know why.

#575 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 09:26 AM | Reply

What rights do each have to his pension?

#574 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2017-06-16 09:24 AM | FLAG:

Whatever the consenting adults involved agree to.

Government has no business regulating marriage other than to provide an arbiter in contract disputes.

#576 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 10:26 AM | Reply

"Whatever the consenting adults involved agree to.'

Sorry, that's not allowed in the real world. And you're assuming the best. Instead, let's pretend they've disagreed, and that's why you're in court. What does the law say? If it doesn't say anything, you've failed as a lawmaker.

"Government has no business regulating marriage other than to provide an arbiter in contract disputes."

Too rich. Marriage IS a contract, conferring superseding rights onto ONE person. Government has every right, for example, to limit the number of people enjoined from testifying against you, or the number of people who have a legal claim to your Social Security.

So...do you have an actual answer for my question, or are you admitting you have no answer?

#577 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 10:33 AM | Reply

"First question: Man has five wives, of 31, 22, 18, 14, and 2 years. What rights do each have to his pension?"

Is our hero dead or alive?

"If I never post after about 3:30 ET today, you'll know why."

I look forward to annoying the ---- out of you all weekend. I'm sure I won't be the only one thinking about you. Good luck.

#578 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 11:12 AM | Reply

"Is our hero dead or alive?"

Feel free to give answers to both scenarios. But keep in mind: if this easy question is so difficult, imagine how hard the hairy situations will be.

Marriage = superseding rights. Polygamy = proportional rights. World of difference.

"I look forward to annoying the ---- out of you all weekend. "

Hopefully, you'll have to get in line with everyone else!

#579 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 11:20 AM | Reply

Sorry, that's not allowed in the real world. And you're assuming the best. Instead, let's pretend they've disagreed, and that's why you're in court.

#577 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2017-06-16 10:33 AM | REPLY

If they disagreed, then why are they in the contract to begin with? Don't agree, don't sign it. If you sign it, abide by the terms. If you break the terms, then that's what court is for.

Government has no place dictating who should be able to marry whom, or how many people they should be able to marry. Saying government does have a place in this is arch conservative, authoritarian nonsense that has set back civil rights decades.

#580 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 11:44 AM | Reply

If he's dead, then the estate would be divided up evenly amongst the wives, regardless of how many years of marriage had been invested...because a polygamous marriage would necessitate the consent of the other wives. Or husbands. When a married man marries another woman, the first wife is marrying that same woman as well.

In any case, I'm not sure how you make the claim that a simplified legal code justifies keeping people who want to marry apart.

#581 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 11:54 AM | Reply

"If they disagreed, then why are they in the contract to begin with? "

Doesn't matter. The issue is before the court, and if there is no law to guide it, you have insanity.

"Don't agree, don't sign it. "

What contract did they sign? And wouldn't you have to write a default contract, in case none could be found?

"If you break the terms, then that's what court is for."

So you're basically saying everyone must account for EVERY possibility in EVERY contract. Again, what happens on issues where they overlooked things? Where is the default in the law? Your answer is NOWHERE.'

"Government has no place dictating who should be able to marry whom"

I hope you and your sister will be very happy together. God help your kids.

#582 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 12:00 PM | Reply

"If he's dead, then the estate would be divided up evenly amongst the wives,"

Why should Mrs. 30 get the same as Mrs. 2? Hasn't Mrs. 30 put in more?

"A polygamous marriage would necessitate the consent of the other wives."

Sounds like you just wrote a law. And it sounds like Mrs. 30 has a whole lot of reasons to veto the deal, especially if the Mister is on his last legs.

"In any case, I'm not sure how you make the claim that a simplified legal code justifies keeping people who want to marry apart."

That's not my argument. It's that an entire canon of new law must be put in place, before legality. And I'm not against it, per se, I just want to see the work on the law, instead of just the work on the jaw. No one advocating polygamy has seemed to lift a finger to do the legwork needed to make it a reality.

#583 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 12:04 PM | Reply

The issue is before the court, and if there is no law to guide it, you have insanity.

So you're basically saying everyone must account for EVERY possibility in EVERY contract. Again, what happens on issues where they overlooked things? Where is the default in the law? Your answer is NOWHERE.'

#582 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2017-06-16 12:00 PM | REPLY

False. Contract law.

It seems you've never been involved in contract negotiations ever before, but it's not evil, possibilities are accounted for, the process is just boring. There is ample contract law to provide the court guidance.

You must absolutely hate it when people settle by agreeing to their own terms, and never go to court at all.

and if some woman wants to marry 5 of her sisters, more power to her, it's not my place to use the force of government to tell her she can't, that's evil.

#584 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 01:10 PM | Reply

Also, nice job condoning regulation based on eugenics. Who wants more -----, right? We should 100% use government to prevent the conception of -------. Definitely no slippery slope on that one herr Danforth.

#585 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 01:35 PM | Reply

"False. Contract law."

Again...what happens when an issue arises the contract doesn't foresee?

"It seems you've never been involved in contract negotiations ever before,"

Too rich. I served over 25 years on negotiation boards. What I know is unforeseen items arise regularly. I also know uncovered issues are fatal.

"You must absolutely hate it when people settle by agreeing to their own terms, and never go to court at all."

Are you trying to be stupid? I'm merely planning well. Your plan is no plan at all.

"nice job condoning regulation based on eugenics."

You misspelled science. And you have a cruel and callous attitude regarding chances you'd take regarding someone else's existence.

#586 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 02:57 PM | Reply

You misspelled science. And you have a cruel and callous attitude regarding chances you'd take regarding someone else's existence.

#586 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2017-06-16 02:57 PM | FLAG:

That science is called eugenics. The moral degeneracy you're clinging to is the regulation of conception by marriage (like the marriage part matters) to prevent genetic abnormalities. That's the same logic used through history to repress interracial marriage, has led to sterilization and execution of people deemed mentally defective, sterilization and execution of LGBT, and an assortment of other horrors. What kind of crack are you smoking where you'd trust somebody like Rick Santorum with this kind of power?

"Contracts are hard!". False, pre-nups are done all the time. It's just a social contract, you can Legal Zoom it. People can manage power of attorney, their wills, etc, then they can manage a social contract without the government dictating whom, or how many, are allowed to enter that contract together, nor what the sex has to be.

#587 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 06:05 PM | Reply

"Government has no place dictating who should be able to marry whom, or how many people they should be able to marry."

Well, whether it's their place or not, they do it.
People want the rights and privileges they get via marriage, even if you don't think those rights and privileges should be extended to them, and protected by the very government that enacted them.

So you're not really addressing the issue, you're kind of hiding behind the fact that the issue should never have come up, if only we lived in libertarian la-la land.

#588 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-16 06:25 PM | Reply

"The moral degeneracy you're clinging to is the regulation of conception by marriage (like the marriage part matters) to prevent genetic abnormalities."

I'm having trouble believing anyone could actually write and post a sentence like that. You're literally endorsing increased chances for horrific birth defects.

"That's the same logic used through history to repress interracial marriage"

In the case of interracial marriage, there is NO scientific backing for the claims. There certainly is with siblings.

"What kind of crack are you smoking where you'd trust somebody like Rick Santorum with this kind of power?"

WTF are you talking about? RS has NOTHING to do with the prohibition on you marrying and procreating with your sister. These laws came about with (insert your favorite politician here) leading the charge, and everyone else agreeing.

"pre-nups are done all the time."

In what...10% of marriages? Your system would require 100%, with nothing to cover overlooked issues. I've been involved with hundreds and hundreds of negotiated contracts in my professional life. An uncovered issue is worse than a disagreement: it's opening Pandora's Box. In your world, neither party would have the law on their side, because you've failed to provide said laws.

#589 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 06:28 PM | Reply

MadBomber simply favors anarchy.

He's a believer in a thing called Voluntaryism, which is sort of the ISIS of libertarianism.

He rejects government coercion, and since all government authority is ultimately backed by the legal application of violence or threat of incarceration​ to it's subjects, government itself is anathema to freedom.

Basically, if the government that governs least governs best, then the ne plus ultra is having no government at all.

It's a rather interesting phenomenon that reductio ad absurdum can manifest itself as a viable operational paradigm in the political sphere. It's the same sort of absolutist ideology that gives rise to "Zero Tolerance" policies.

#590 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-16 06:37 PM | Reply

You're literally endorsing increased chances for horrific birth defects.

it's opening Pandora's Box. In your world, neither party would have the law on their side, because you've failed to provide said laws.

#589 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2017-06-16 06:28 PM | FLAG:

I'm endorsing the government not dictating whom can make social contracts with whom. You are claiming that it's marriage regulation that prevents ------. That's like saying 2 gay guys won't bone because gay marriage is illegal. You're claiming it's for genetic safety, and historically those claims are always abused by government. Only a fool would trust government with the regulation of marriage.

I'd rather open Pandora's box of negotiation and setting new precedent in contract dispute resolution, than allow government to dictate whom can marry whom.

#591 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 06:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So, bored waiting on dinner, with pandora's box open, I have to ask..

since your object is purely scientific, they produce mongoloids, there's a simple solution you would think a seasoned negotiator would never overlook. If they simply don't breed, based on your own logic there's no reason to object.

#592 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-06-16 06:58 PM | Reply

"If they simply don't breed, based on your own logic there's no reason to object."

Don't, or Can't?

I have no problem with the second. Society--for good reason--has major problems with the first.

#593 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 07:15 PM | Reply

"You are claiming that it's marriage regulation that prevents ------."

I never made that claim. My claim is simple: society LEARNED to prohibit siblings from marrying---and not just because of birth defects. Some actually believe the home should be safe from being "hit on" by family members.

"That's like saying 2 gay guys won't bone because gay marriage is illegal."

Can you taste the stupid when you stretch logic that far?

"Only a fool would trust government with the regulation of marriage."

Says the person endorsing more encephalitis.

"I'd rather open Pandora's box of negotiation and setting new precedent in contract dispute resolution"

As I said from the start...no one is stopping you from writing and proposing the laws. Go right ahead. If you can anticipate and solve the inherent problems, have at it. Until you can, however, your only answer is anarchy.

#594 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 07:22 PM | Reply

Here is what Sitz is endorsing:

Take the results of a study of Czechoslovakian children whose fathers were first degree relatives. Fewer than half of the children who were the product of ---------- unions were completely healthy. Forty-two percent of them were born with severe birth defects or suffered early death and another 11 percent were mildly mentally impaired.
www.psychologytoday.com

If government (via its scientists) knows this is the result, it is HORRIFICALLY IRRESPONSIBLE to allow siblings to marry and procreate.

But Sitz doesn't want anyone telling Sitz what to do. F**k the offspring.

#595 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 07:26 PM | Reply

#590

SO.... MB has becoming Ray to look forward to as he gets old. Spiffy.

#596 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-16 07:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Why should Mrs. 30 get the same as Mrs. 2? Hasn't Mrs. 30 put in more?"

We both know that the outcome of that argument would depend on who had the best lawyer...but the answer is no. You're framing this as a man who is married to more than one woman...you need to view it through the lens of an individual who is married to more than one individual. You're making the same mistake that those who argued against gay marriage by unnecessarily injected gender into a matter where it is irrelevant.

"And it sounds like Mrs. 30 has a whole lot of reasons to veto the deal, especially if the Mister is on his last legs."

You're presupposing that the contract between Ms. 2 and Ms. 30 is somehow dissolved when Mr. dies. Not sure how that would be when all are equal parties to the same union.

#597 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 10:34 PM | Reply

And I suppose it's safe to say you'll be around for a while longer?

#598 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 10:34 PM | Reply

"He rejects government coercion, and since all government authority is ultimately backed by the legal application of violence or threat of incarceration​ to it's subjects, government itself is anathema to freedom."

Whatever dude. Let's see what you have to say when Trump re-criminalizes marijuana, outlaws gay marriage and abortion, and enacts a host of other measures intended on preserving traditional american ideals. I'll hazard a guess that you're not going to stand idly by and accept government coercion as a necessary tool in keeping society intact...Am I wrong?

#599 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-06-16 10:44 PM | Reply

" Let's see what you have to say when Trump re-criminalizes marijuana, outlaws gay marriage and abortion, and enacts a host of other measures intended on preserving traditional american ideals. I'll hazard a guess that you're not going to stand idly by and accept government coercion as a necessary tool in keeping society intact"

I don't see how speculation about what I might do if Trump rolls back civil rights is germane to the fact that the ultimate backstop of government authority is always, inevitably, delivered at gunpoint.

"...Am I wrong?"

So, as Pauli, famously said, "You are not only not right, you are not even wrong!"
en.wikipedia.org

#600 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-16 11:12 PM | Reply

"You're framing this as a man who is married to more than one woman"

There's a reason for that.
It's because polygamy always goes that way.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." -- Yogi Berra

#601 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-16 11:14 PM | Reply

"I'd rather open Pandora's box of negotiation and setting new precedent in contract dispute resolution, than allow government to dictate whom can marry whom."

You could make the same argument for people selling themselves into slavery.
And I suspect you do.

#602 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-06-16 11:14 PM | Reply

"We both know that the outcome of that argument would depend on who had the best lawyer.."

Exactly why legislation is needed before legalization. Otherwise, there are no guiding legal principles, and everything becomes a crapshoot. Anarchy, as I pointed out above.

"You're framing this as a man who is married to more than one woman...you need to view it through the lens of an individual who is married to more than one individual. "

That doesn't change the dynamic of the new, needed law at all. Again, you're opening up an entirely new canon, and it's all about proportional rights, exactly the opposite of superseding rights.

"You're making the same mistake that those who argued against gay marriage by unnecessarily injected gender into a matter where it is irrelevant."

Um, don't look now, but you're the only interjecting gender. My question would need to be answered for any and all possible combinations, regardless of the genders involved.

"You're presupposing that the contract between Ms. 2 and Ms. 30 is somehow dissolved when Mr. dies."

I'm starting to believe you don't understand this concept. Earlier, you said all parties would have to agree, right after saying Mrs 0.1 would get the same portion of Old Moneybags $$$ as Mrs. 30...provided Mrs. 30 agrees, since she has a veto in your scenario (according to the new law). You've just given Mrs 30 (possibly) millions of reasons to say no. Also, are you saying if Moneybags dies, his 5 wives are still married to each other?!?

"And I suppose it's safe to say you'll be around for a while longer?"

You can't get rid of me that easily.

#603 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-17 01:17 AM | Reply

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