Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 14, 2017

President Trump on Tuesday bluntly derided a House attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Act as "mean," and in doing so, injected himself in a brewing Senate battle that his fellow Republicans had prayed he would avoid At a White House lunch with more than a dozen Republican senators, Mr. Trump alerted his guests that a bill passed by the House this spring -- one he lauded last month in the Rose Garden as a "great plan" that was "very, very incredibly well-crafted" -- was now "mean." He also informed the lawmakers, who represented politically diverse views from across the Republican spectrum, that he expected the Senate to come up with something more generous, according to four congressional aides who were briefed on the discussion and spoke on the condition of anonymity.

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How do people deal with this idiot?

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Hey, the wind changed directions....

--cheetolini----

#1 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-06-14 06:56 AM | Reply

How do people deal with Trump's idiocy? Donald's preference is that they say " yes sir".

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 08:16 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Donald's premise is never what's wrong with him, it's what's wrong with us.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-14 08:17 AM | Reply | Funny: 1


... Mr. Trump alerted his guests that a bill passed by the House this spring -- one he lauded last month in the Rose Garden as a "great plan" that was "very, very incredibly well-crafted" -- was now "mean." ...

I would be interested in knowing what he has found out about the House bill in the interim that caused such a drastic change in his opinion of the bill.

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-06-14 05:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Little d saw the AHCA poll numbers are bad so he is going to blame the democrats for passing a mean bill. His base will lap that up.

#5 | Posted by bored at 2017-06-14 06:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So now will all the Conservatives on here change their minds?

#6 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-14 06:22 PM | Reply

#6: POSTED BY SYCOPHANT:

No, because now they have been against the AHCA "from the beginning".

#7 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-06-14 06:26 PM | Reply

If even Donald Trump thinks your HC Bill is too Draconian... you might want to rethink it.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2017-06-14 06:39 PM | Reply

Didn't I see donnie dealmaker and Paul Ryan and about 100 other guys giving each other handies and tongue kissing in the rose garden after the house bill passed?

I'm pretty sure he talked about what a great bill it is.

It wasn't even that long ago...

#9 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-06-14 07:06 PM | Reply

Trump Calls House TrumpCare Bill 'Mean'

That means he loves it and will sign it with glee.

If you hadn't noticed, this sociopath gets off on cruelty.

His disgusting sons kill endangered species for fun.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-14 09:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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No one knew health care was so complicated; and only he can save it. But he'll be getting push back from the Freedom (wink wink) Caucus because it's not "mean" enough. They need to drink more beer.

#11 | Posted by squinch at 2017-06-15 05:05 AM | Reply

Just heard Senator Thune say on Morning Joe that the Senate is going to try to pass the health care votes with only Republican votes. If that bills turns out to be "mean" as well, Republicans will own it, lock, stock and barrel.

#12 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-15 08:58 AM | Reply

It's a tax cut for the 1% not a healthcare bill and we should all refer to it as a tax cut for the 1%.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-15 09:03 AM | Reply

13

agreed. I'm surprised someone hasn't just called it something else...."healthcare bill???? oh.....you mean the tax cut for the 1% bill?"

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-15 09:19 AM | Reply

It's getting weird, me and Eberly are agreeing. Got to be on the right path if two opposites, or nearly opposites agree on things like this.

#15 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-15 09:23 AM | Reply

"Just heard Senator Thune say on Morning Joe that the Senate is going to try to pass the health care votes with only Republican votes. If that bills turns out to be "mean" as well, Republicans will own it, lock, stock and barrel."

true. Is that how you feel about Obamacare? because the dems passed without any GOP votes...they own it lock, stock, and barrel?

because nobody on the left here feels that way when that's been pointed out. What's flawed in Obamacare is still the fault of the GOP, according to the bots.

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2017-06-15 10:04 AM | Reply

true. Is that how you feel about Obamacare? because the dems passed without any GOP votes...they own it lock, stock, and barrel?

#16 | Posted by eberly

Oh no. The dems own the fact that they tried to help sick and poor people. How will they ever show their faces?

Repubs will own the fact that they KILL sick and poor people in order to get tax cuts for rich people.

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 11:26 AM | Reply

Repubs will own the fact that they KILL sick and poor people in order to get tax cuts for rich people.
#17 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY A

Death Panels!

#18 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 12:32 PM | Reply

Death Panels!

#18 | Posted by LastAmerican

I think the GOP intends to skip that step and go directly to Death.

#19 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-15 12:46 PM | Reply

It's a tax cut for the 1% not a healthcare bill and we should all refer to it as a tax cut for the 1%.
#13 | POSTED BY DANNI

I don't think anyone thinks the House bill is anything other than garbage. I think it was set up to fail on purpose just to push the issue down the road past midterms. The facts are hard to deal with. The Democrats pushed the ACA crap all the way through and Obama signed it into law. We are paying dearly for it with no better coverage and worse access to health care than before.

This bill was DOA before the House passed it. What the Republicans (and most Americans) want to do is to repeal the ACA and send the issue back to the states. This bill does some of that, but it should do nothing but repeal the ACA. Most states were well on the way of covering everyone in their states before the ACA and those efforts will be picked up again after the beast is vanquished. Some states, like Colorado, will keep the way that Medicaid is offered now (no checks, no audits) and may even keep the expanded Medicaid. That is if Colorado providers keep seeing Medicaid.

The issue of preexisting will be kept by all states. It's too huge an issue not to include a plan to cover those who can't buy insurance because of a preexisting condition.

It's just too bad that the idiots on the Left keep lying about what's really going on and what really needs to happen. Because of them, costs are sky high and access to health care providers is limited.

#20 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 12:46 PM | Reply

The issue of preexisting will be kept by all states.

#20 | Posted by LastAmerican at

No it won't.

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-15 12:48 PM | Reply

I don't think anyone thinks the House bill is anything other than garbage. I think it was set up to fail on purpose just to push the issue down the road past midterms.

#20 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017

The very definition of farce. Except ugly, not very funny at all.

Got a question? Why would the GOP even pretend to be dicking with their base over health care? Why give the impression? What political capital is gained from scaring the hell out of people and making them hate you?

Kicking this issue down to the mid-terms the way it is being played seems like political suicide.

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-15 12:51 PM | Reply

It's a tax cut for the 1% not a healthcare bill and we should all refer to it as a tax cut for the 1%.
#13 | POSTED BY DANNI

But, more to your point. The Republicans are pandering to the insurance companies more than they should. The Obama Democrats did too.

I say allow the states to fulfill their Constitutional obligation and see to the welfare of their Residents. It's always worked very well before, why not allow it work again?

#23 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 12:56 PM | Reply

#23 | Posted by LastAmerican

Why the GOP political sadism in the interim?

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-15 01:00 PM | Reply

What's behind this degree of political folly? Is the GOP trying to play "twelve-dimensional chess" again? After losing the last twenty games, you'd think them fatigued.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2017-06-15 01:02 PM | Reply

Got a question? Why would the GOP even pretend to be dicking with their base over health care? Why give the impression? What political capital is gained from scaring the hell out of people and making them hate you?
Kicking this issue down to the mid-terms the way it is being played seems like political suicide.
#22 | POSTED BY ZED

I think you're right. The House Republicans are no more competent than the Obama Democrats and their ACA.

Also, I agree with you that not _all_ states will force coverage of preexisting or provide a plan, but most states will. I know that Colorado had it before the ACA because I was able to buy insurance through the coop in 2009 before the exchange took over. I have a preexisting condition and got rejected by most of the larger companies.

This is an issue. Sick people need access to healthcare and at the same time, Congress has no business telling states how to provide welfare for their residents, but, personally, I believe that something in our system would compel all states to eventually do it. It's in the best interest of the state to tackle this issue now, today rather than wait to see what everyone else comes up with.

#26 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 01:05 PM | Reply

"...through the coop ..." - #26 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 01:05 PM

Why does a chicken coop have only 2 doors?

Because if it had 4 doors it would be a chicken sedan.

#27 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-15 01:09 PM | Reply

#23 | Posted by LastAmerican
Why the GOP political sadism in the interim?
#24 | POSTED BY ZED

Well, if you play the victim long enough, then searching for a sadist is not very hard. Life is hard and lying about it is easy.

Look, when the grownups read the bill and understand the motivations, it's not sadistic, it's a work in progress. And when a childish Bernie Sanders starts spouting the false narrative, then his feeble minded followers (Leftist media) listen and start repeating the --------, it slowly becomes fact, when SURPRISE, the truth finally comes out. This is how Trump won the election. I don't think this is a very healthy way for our great country to exist.

But, to your point, I don't like this bill either. It needs to simply repeal the ACA. We are big and strong and we've learned a lot in the last eight years.

#28 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 01:15 PM | Reply

#27 | POSTED BY HANS

FF

#29 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 01:16 PM | Reply

What's behind this degree of political folly? Is the GOP trying to play "twelve-dimensional chess" again? After losing the last twenty games, you'd think them fatigued.
#25 | POSTED BY ZED

From the article:

"For example, the budget office said, for a typical 64-year-old with an annual income of $26,500, the net premium in 2026 -- after tax credits -- would average about $16,000 a year under the House bill, compared with $1,700 under the Affordable Care Act."

The narrative is not only false with a sprinkle of half-truths--it's insane and deranged. There are two absolutely horrifying concepts in this short sentence.

1) This statement assumes that the ACA would still be in place and that health care costs would rise to 16k a year. Really? Under the bill passed by the House, costs would go down.

2) It also assumes that someone making 26k a year would still be getting subsidized premiums by 2026! We can't afford it and it's a stupid model. The ACA when die under its own weight by then. The idea of subsidized premiums is a bad model. Let me tell you what's going on. The smart thing to do is to buy property and put cash away when you are young and then in your 50's stop working. I had two advisors, one was a health insurance salesman tell me how to do it. The idea is to keep income away from AGI. Get your income below (what is it) 65k and the premiums are partially subsidized, and right now below 14k(?), it's 100% subsidized. There's more to it, but no telling what tricks people will come up with when the ACA is 20 years old.

#30 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 01:35 PM | Reply

he Democrats pushed the ACA crap all the way through and Obama signed it into law. We are paying dearly for it with no better coverage and worse access to health care than before.

#20 | Posted by LastAmerican

Except for the people who are alive today because of it.

But what are their lives really worth anyway?

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 01:37 PM | Reply

#31 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

OMG. what a strawman. Can we have an adult conversation? This is so stupid. People weren't dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care. And after it's repealed, people won't be dying. Their health will be compromised by all the lying from the Sanders people.

#32 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:04 PM | Reply

health compromised by the stress and overreacting

I mean, hell, people are already being shot because of the Sanders lying.

#33 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:06 PM | Reply

OMG. what a strawman. Can we have an adult conversation? This is so stupid. People weren't dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care. And after it's repealed, people won't be dying. Their health will be compromised by all the lying from the Sanders people.
#32 | POSTED BY LASTAMERICAN

rewrite:

People were dying before the ACA, because they had access to health care but some had limited access to health insurance.

#34 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:07 PM | Reply

OMG. what a strawman. Can we have an adult conversation? This is so stupid. People weren't dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care. And after it's repealed, people won't be dying. Their health will be compromised by all the lying from the Sanders people.

#32 | Posted by LastAmerican

And another conservative shows up to remind us all how the conservative brain works: "If it wasn't a problem for ME, then it's not a real problem for anyone."

People die for lack of health care all the time. Just because they'll treat you in an emergency room doesn't mean there aren't a myriad of other health conditions that will go undetected or untreated, Dr. ------.

This will result in more people lacking health care, and therefore more people dying.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 02:10 PM | Reply

"People weren't dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care."

You win dumbest post of the day/week/month.

People were ABSOLUTELY dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:17 PM | Reply

"
#35 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY
#36 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

Yep. I was in a hurry to submit something at work and totally trashed this response. I'm humbled.

What I meant to say is:

People were not dying before the ACA because of a lack of access to health care. Everyone had access, but some didn't have access to health insurance.

Speaksoftly can not prove or disprove what he said.

#37 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:21 PM | Reply

People were ABSOLUTELY dying before the ACA because they had no access to health care.
#36 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Prove it. where's your link?

#38 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:22 PM | Reply

"People were not dying before the ACA because of a lack of access to health care."

Well, in that case, you're a liar.

Unless, of course, you consider high-risk pools at prohibitive costs, "access", in which case you're just cruel.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:24 PM | Reply

"Prove it. where's your link?"

Every macrostatistics class in the world. If you don't understand what that means, educate yourself. Otherwise, I can't help you overcome your ignorance.

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Prove it. where's your link?

#38 | Posted by LastAmerican

What you don't know how to google?

news.harvard.edu

" New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts"

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Unless, of course, you consider high-risk pools at prohibitive costs, "access", in which case you're just cruel.
#39 | POSTED BY DANFORTH "

OMG!!! Prove it. link please.

I was in a high-risk pool for two years before the ACA killed that program and my premium was 20% higher than regular plans but after ACA kicked in that premium was much lower.

How is it cruel? It seems desperate on your part to call names when you can't argue a point!

Arguing with you is not fun or constructive. You don't tell the truth when you respond and then get very offensive. I'd rather you wouldn't answer.

#42 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:31 PM | Reply

Where's your link that proves water us wet, danforth?

derrr..

-Lastidiot

#43 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-06-15 02:31 PM | Reply

"People were not dying before the ACA because of a lack of access to health care."

People couldn't afford the bills, you obtuse piece of flotsam. A distinction without a difference, i might add.

#44 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-06-15 02:34 PM | Reply

" New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts"

#41 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

"Linked" means that they really can't prove it. Nothing in the article proves it, just speculative.

My statement was everyone had access to health care, but some had limited access to health insurance.

Words are your friend. Understand them and we can get along so much better.

#46 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:36 PM | Reply

His attention span is so short he thinks Trumpcare was an Obama initiative

#47 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-15 02:36 PM | Reply

Here's more proof:

When folks don't have health insurance, they usually don't go to the doctor for regular visits. These visits are vital for catching preventable diseases earlier than otherwise, which saves both money and lives. All too often, by the time symptoms get visible it's too late. High blood pressure is one example: discovered early, preventive steps can be taken. Discovered too late, and you're picking out a gravestone, after some very expensive life-saving attempts.

That's the reason insurance companies didn't balk at all about the "preventive" aspect of the ACA. They know, as I learned a long time ago serving on health committees, prevention is MUCH cheaper than cure.

It's also proof people die when folks are denied access to affordable health insurance and care.

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:37 PM | Reply

""Linked" means that they really can't prove it. Nothing in the article proves it, just speculative."

Congratulations. You just flunked English class, as well as Macro class. Nice werk!

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:37 PM | Reply

People couldn't afford the bills, you obtuse piece of flotsam. A distinction without a difference, i might add.
#44 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

No need to be an ------- when your argument is falling apart.

I agree that the bills were out of control and people were forced into bankruptcy, but we weren't talking about that. How about you stick with the goalposts here and stop the drivebys?

The ACA did get rid of that issue and that was one of the issues that Congress as a whole was working on. What the hell is your point?

#51 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"My statement was everyone had access to health care"

Ah...the cruelty defense: Everyone has access to health care...provided they're willing to bankrupt themselves by accessing it only via the ER.

If you're going to make that claim, at least be truthful regarding your real intention.

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:40 PM | Reply

Congratulations. You just flunked English class, as well as Macro class. Nice werk!
#49 | POSTED BY DANFORTH A

How old are you?

#53 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:41 PM | Reply

"I agree that the bills were out of control and people were forced into bankruptcy, but we weren't talking about that."

Great. So you admit your goal is to bankrupt people, if they so much as want health care access.

#55 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:41 PM | Reply

"How old are you?"

Old enough to have passed classes in English and Macro.

How stupid are you?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I agree that the bills were out of control and people were forced into bankruptcy, but we weren't talking about that."

That's reality, which is what i was talking about. You can play semantics all day but you really just come across as a douchebag.

Getting rid of the ACA is going to kill people. You built that with your pathetic trump vote. Eat it.

#57 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-06-15 02:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you're going to make that claim, at least be truthful regarding your real intention.
#52 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I can't help it if you can't follow the conversation.

#58 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:43 PM | Reply

Is LA = Special Ed?

Eddie, is that you?

#59 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I can't help it if you can't follow the conversation."

My irony meter just exploded.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Eddie, is that you?" - #59 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:44 PM

That's the only explanation, Danforth.

#62 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-15 02:47 PM | Reply

#57 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

So, you really don't have a point and just a pathetic sore loser who can't reason himself out of a wet paper bag and comes here just to ridicule out of context because he hates his own life.

The ACA is failing and dying under its own weight. We need a better solution. Do you disagree with this?

#63 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:48 PM | Reply

#60 | POSTED BY HANS

LOL!!! How can I be projecting when I am leading the conversation? LOL.

#64 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:49 PM | Reply

"How can I be projecting when I am leading the conversation? "

Like I said: flunked English class.

#65 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:50 PM | Reply

#60 | POSTED BY HANS

I love pushing your buttons. LOL.

#66 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:51 PM | Reply

#65 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Learn to lose with grace.

#68 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:53 PM | Reply

"The ACA is failing and dying under its own weight. We need a better solution. Do you disagree with this?"

We need single payer. The ACA is slowly drowning and republicans are handing it stones.

#69 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-06-15 02:53 PM | Reply

#67 | POSTED BY HANS

Because you are here means that I am. LOL!!!

#71 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:54 PM | Reply

"The ACA is failing and dying under its own weight."

No it's not. It's being sabotaged left and right, first by killing risk corridors, and now by uncertainty. First the IRS weakened its enforcement of the mandate, then Trump threatened to stop the subsidy payments. Trustees and Board Members everywhere are giving the same advice: RUN AWAY! But not because of the ACA itself; they can adjust premiums to return to profitability. Because uncertainly is anathema to Insurance companies.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Learn to lose with grace." - #68 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:53 PM | Reply | Flag: Pigeon chess

#73 | Posted by Hans at 2017-06-15 02:56 PM | Reply

"Learn to lose with grace."

I have, every time I've lost.

You believing this is one of those times simply exposes your rank idiocy.

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:56 PM | Reply

I can always tell when I got Hans' goat. He keeps responding. He wants to shut down the argument because it's not going the way he wants.

Let the insults continue. You can't win any other way.

#75 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 02:56 PM | Reply

"I can always tell when I got Hans' goat. He keeps responding."

You were part of a study by a pair of guys named Dunning and Kruger, right?

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 02:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


You know you can't help yourself.
#78 | POSTED BY HANS

Projecting! LOL!!!

God, you're easy. This stuff just writes itself.

Ok, enough fun.

#79 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 03:01 PM | Reply

Words are your friend. Understand them and we can get along so much better.

#46 | Posted by LastAmerican

You're using semantics to escape a losing argument.

If you need a link to tell you that people without regular access to medical care aren't going to catch many preventable or curable conditions early enough to keep them from being fatal, you should go back to the high school you dropped out of.

#80 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 03:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Where's your link that proves water us wet, danforth?
derrr..
-Lastidiot

Cause there's this thing called dry ice. So it must be made from dry water.
derrr...
-Lastidiot

#82 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-06-15 04:04 PM | Reply

" New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts"
#41 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY
"Linked" means that they really can't prove it. Nothing in the article proves it, just speculative.
#46 | POSTED BY LASTAMERICAN

I nominate this post of Dumbest of the Year.

#83 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-06-15 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Second.

#84 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-15 05:32 PM | Reply

Person A has access to healthcare. When he gets a little sick he goes to the doctor, gets treated and goes on with life. When he has a little backache he goes to the doctor, gets treated and goes on with life

Person B does not have access to healthcare. When he gets a little sick he sucks it up and goes to work. He doesn't go to the doctor unless its an emergency. he stays sicker, longer than person A and spreads it around work too. When he has a little backache he sucks it up and goes to work. He can't work as hard as the guys without backaches, they have to work harder as a result. Maybe he gets lucky and his back heals. Maybe he gets lucky and he gets over his illness. THIS TIME. Eventually it catches up to him. Maybe the backache gets bad enough to require surgery. Maybe the cold he has worked with for 3 weeks turns into pnuemonia. Now he spends days in the hospital racking up costs he can never pay so the rest of us will.

But thank god we didn't have to subsidize his premiums

#85 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-15 06:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#85 | Posted by hatter5183

Don't try to get conservatives to understand problems that they themselves never experienced. Their little brains can't handle that much computation.

#86 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 06:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#83 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

g'DAMN! You retortees are living in a bubble and are just pissed off that you can't prove your argument and that the ACA is a huge failure.

And you can't seem to follow the argument either. And you call me dumb?

Sheeesh!

#87 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 06:35 PM | Reply

#85 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Living in denial is why you keep losing elections.

The biggest problem before the ACA was to solve the problem of getting people covered who had pre-existing conditions. That's it. The ACA went way overboard, solved that problem but created other major problems.

The solution was to create co-ops at the state level and have the state subsidize it for people who could not afford it. This solution would be better and less expensive if the Feds subsidized it for the next 10 years until the states could take over!

The Republicans have been talking about this for decades and many states have been implementing it before the ACA.

#88 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 06:41 PM | Reply

g'DAMN! You retortees are living in a bubble and are just pissed off that you can't prove your argument and that the ACA is a huge failure.

#87 | Posted by LastAmerican

I gave you proof and you said it doesn't count. I don't have time to waste sending links to morons who will just choose not to believe the experts.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 06:59 PM | Reply

Living in denial is why you keep losing elections.

#88 | Posted by LastAmerican

Gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, and the electoral college are why dems are losing.

Congrats on your team's ability to CHEAT though.

It must feel great knowing that a majority of the country voted against your agenda, but you get to force it on them anyway.

#90 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-15 07:00 PM | Reply

Gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, and the electoral college are why dems are losing.
Congrats on your team's ability to CHEAT though.
It must feel great knowing that a majority of the country voted against your agenda, but you get to force it on them anyway.
#90 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Explain gerrymandering if you can. If it did have an effect, it only affected the 2012 election. How do explain more seats in 2016 if it's done only once every 10 years? How do you explain the 2010 election (the year of the shellacking)?

voter disenfranchisement? What are you talking about? Do you even know? Is there some new info?

Electoral college. If that organization goes away, then the Republicans will simply spend more money to get the popular vote.

Do you have anything else, because your -------- is old and has been debunked?

The dems lost elections at the state level too. You didn't think of that, did you?

Also, explain to me why dems lost seats in the Senate?

You need to face the fact that the Democrats need to refocus their priorities. Instead of identity politics, they need to focus on job creators.

#91 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 11:04 PM | Reply

I gave you proof and you said it doesn't count.
#89 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I easily debunked that article. It wasn't proof of anything we were actually talking about. You weren't following the conversation and obnoxiously posted a link to an article that was speculative at best and irrelevant to the argument. You are either intellectually lazy or you are really just that dumb.

#92 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 11:07 PM | Reply

"Explain gerrymandering if you can. If it did have an effect, it only affected the 2012 election. How do explain more seats in 2016 if it's done only once every 10 years? How do you explain the 2010 election (the year of the shellacking)? "

Living in a right wing crazy world. Disconnected from reality. Disregard his comments because they are nonsense. Even Democrats understand that there are examples of Democrats doing gerrymandering. It's not a party issue, it's a fairness issue, it's a belief in democracy issue. Gerrymandering by either party is an affront to democracy, and both parties are guilty though the Republicans are much more successful at it.

#93 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-15 11:15 PM | Reply

"Explain gerrymandering if you can. If it did have an effect, it only affected the 2012 election. How do explain more seats in 2016 if it's done only once every 10 years? How do you explain the 2010 election (the year of the shellacking)? "

Living in a right wing crazy world. Disconnected from reality. Disregard his comments because they are nonsense. Even Democrats understand that there are examples of Democrats doing gerrymandering. It's not a party issue, it's a fairness issue, it's a belief in democracy issue. Gerrymandering by either party is an affront to democracy, and both parties are guilty though the Republicans are much more successful at it.

#94 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-15 11:15 PM | Reply

#94 | POSTED BY DANNI

so, you agree that gerrymandering would only affect House elections in 2012 then? Yes? No? What?

#95 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-15 11:20 PM | Reply

Gerrymandering and Citizens United are killing democracy. With a little help from the Russians. And possibly Team Trump.

#96 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-06-15 11:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"so, you agree that gerrymandering would only affect House elections in 2012 then? Yes? No? What? "

No, I think gerrymandering distorts democracy. Yes, I admit some Democrats take advantage of it but compared to the advantage that the Republican gain from it is miniscule. Let's eliminate it, make districts sensible geographical regions not modified by racial or other preferences. It is a practice that I think both Democrats and REpublicans could join together to oppose, so why don't we do that? Democracy will not be fixed with one action, it will take us all cooperating with each other to restore fairness and for some of us to admit that certain things, like gerrymandering, need to be rooted out even if it doesn't necessarily benefit our own party.
Restoring democracy should be more important than party, it is to me.

#97 | Posted by danni at 2017-06-15 11:31 PM | Reply

Pre-existing comnditions was just one of many problems the ACA addressed

1) College students not having access to insurance
2) People being forced into bankruptcy by medical issues
3) People believing they had insurance but not being covered when they needed to use it
4) Insurance companies spending as little as 40% of revenues on healthcare
5) People using the ER as the first line medical because of lack of insurance
6) ER costs being passed on to the paying customers
7) Many common ailments being explicitly denied by insurance
8) Lack of affordable insurance for the working poor
9) Medicaid gap
10) Medicare part D doughnut hole
11) Women being charged more than men
12) Annual caps
13) lifetime caps

So tell of these which of these problems were not addressed by the ACA

Also tell us which of these you think are ok under the primary conservative principle of "I got mine, sucks to be you"

#98 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-16 10:07 AM | Reply

#97 | POSTED BY DANNI

I agree with that. The gerrymandering is obvious in many counties in the US and there is a list of 7 that are so obvious that they were redistricted for only one purpose. It should be based only on population and not political affiliation. I believe in most states, this is undertaken by the governors' offices. So, whichever party is in office at the beginning of the decade...

The reason I say that gerrymandering would have only affected the 2012 election (if it did at all. How many districts were affected? There are seven) is that the redistricting happened in 2011. The census is taken in decade years and then the redistricting happens the following year. So, the 2010 (the year of the shellacking), 2014 and 2016 were not affected by this. In addition, Democrats lost seats in the Senate as well and lost seats at the state level, Governor and state legislative seats.

When I hear "we lost because of Republican tricks like gerrymandering", I just have to shake my and wonder how much of that is really true.

So, don't you think it would be better if the Democrats just owned the fact that they lost touch with their Liberal roots and have embraced something else? (I call it Leftism). This is the real reason they keep losing seats at the federal and state levels. For example, the actions of Antifa will most definitely affect negatively on Democrats in coming elections. These radical feminists (not feminists) will have a negative effect. The Gay community attacking Trump every chance they get will have a negative effect. It's counter-intuitive, don't you think?

#99 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-16 11:12 AM | Reply

#98 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Actually, the only real issue that needed to be decided at the Federal level was that people with pre-existing conditions must have access to health insurance. But, many states were well on their way solving this problem before the ACA was put in. The Republicans want to take government out of the insurance business altogether and allow the market fix these problems.

But, from your list, market forces would have fixed these problems, but how many new problems did fixing these problems on your list create? Less actual access to health care professionals and facilities increased premiums by as much as 4 times. Out of pocket expenses as much as infinite (when before it was zero for many). Providers leaving practice (less access to actual health care).

and Sucks to be you...

I hate that stupid accusation of conservatives. It's idiotic to say that conservatives are not compassionate when a core principal is "teach a man to fish" and when Conservatives give far more money to less fortunate out of their own funds than their Liberal counterparts. You come off and ignorant and frustrated when you say stuff like that and most Leftist (not Liberals) do.

#100 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-16 11:34 AM | Reply

If I were a Republican congressman in the House and I had reluctantly voted for Trump's proposal to repeal and replace Obamacare, I would be feeling so angry and betrayed right now. Trump put on a full court press in his lobbying of Republican congressmen to get them to support the proposed bill. Now that son of a bitch has the nerve to declare 'House Trumpcare bill "mean"'. WTF. They put their seat in Congress on the line to support your lying hypocritical ass, and this is how you respond?

If this isn't a bridge burner in terms of future Republican support of Trump's "agenda" in the Congress, I don't know what possibly could be.

#101 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-06-16 11:43 AM | Reply

"market forces would have fixed these problems"

Then why didn't they fix those problems in the decade before the ACA?

Instead, medical inflation was 4 times the rate of regular inflation, lifetime caps were bankrupting everyone with serious problems, and high-risk pools were cost-prohibitive.

#102 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 11:47 AM | Reply

"the only real issue that needed to be decided at the Federal level was that people with pre-existing conditions must have access to health insurance."

That's not true at all, and shows the shallowness of your analysis.

"Conservatives give far more money to less fortunate out of their own funds than their Liberal counterparts."

It depends on how you define "less fortunate". I wouldn't include, for example, "charity" that goes to supporting inequality.

#103 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 11:50 AM | Reply

If market forces could fix these problems why had market forces not fixed them already?

The market did not begin when Obamacare was passed. These problems have existed since insurance was invented and the market made no effort to fix any of them. In fact the market caused most of them.

the market solution to people with expensive dieseases was to exclude pre-existing conditions, cap benefits, and charge unaffordable rates

#104 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-16 12:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"and Sucks to be you...
I hate that stupid accusation of conservatives."

The ACHA cuts over $800 billion from health care, and slashes over $650 billion in (mostly) income taxes, primarily for the wealthy. It's hard for any thinking person not to make a connection between the two. Doubly so when Ryan is so naked about wanting the ACHA so he can slash more income taxes under the guise of tax reform.

If Conservatives don't want the accusation, there's a simple solution: stop recreating the behavior.

#105 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 12:50 PM | Reply

#105 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

OMG! This BS only works with low information followers. Take 800 billion from health care? Really? So, it's just gone? LOL. No, that money is spent at the state level or the costs never exist because of market forces causing the cost of health care will go down!!

Your "rape culture" frame of mind is trolling in nature. Look! that white college man MUST be a rapist. He's white, he's in college, he's male... and he joined a fraternity!!! (THE HORROR!!!)

give it a rest.

#106 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-16 01:07 PM | Reply

I easily debunked that article. It wasn't proof of anything we were actually talking about. You weren't following the conversation and obnoxiously posted a link to an article that was speculative at best and irrelevant to the argument. You are either intellectually lazy or you are really just that dumb.

#92 | Posted by LastAmerican

You didn't debunk crap. I posted the article then you said you don't believe it. That's not debunking, that's closing your eyes, putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALALALALALA!"

#107 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-16 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Take 800 billion from health care? Really?"

Really. www.cnn.com

"No, that money is spent at the state level"

No, it's not. Even if they block grant, states can use that money for whatever they want, including tax cuts for the wealthiest.

"or the costs never exist because of market forces causing the cost of health care will go down!"

$800 Billion?!? You're delusional. Again...why didn't market forces correct the problems BEFORE the ACA?

#108 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 01:13 PM | Reply

You didn't debunk crap.
#107 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Yup, I did. And all your kicking and screaming will not change that.

#109 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-16 01:30 PM | Reply

$800 Billion?!? You're delusional. Again...why didn't market forces correct the problems BEFORE the ACA?
#108 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Typical Leftist bullcrap. Aren't you tired of making yourself sick over this BS?

I'm not defending this House bill at all, but you use low information tactics to prove some non-sequitur point!!!

All I get from you is hate. Try and not to be so trollish.

#110 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-16 01:35 PM | Reply

Yup, I did. And all your kicking and screaming will not change that.

#109 | Posted by LastAmerican

In #41 I posted a link showing lacking health care leads to more death.

In #46 you said you don't believe it.

That's not debunking. That's choosing to ignore the experts who've studied it.

Choosing to reject info and remain ignorant isn't how you win an argument.

But it's a great way to show everyone how dumb you choose to be.

#111 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-06-16 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Stop pretending conservatives teach a man to fish when they have been cutting education funding at both state and federal levels for 40 years

#113 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-06-16 02:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm not defending this House bill at all"

Was posted right after--

"Take 800 billion from health care? Really?"

I guess defending is another word you're going to have to look up in the dictionary.

"All I get from you is hate."

All I get from you is idiocy. I hate idiocy.

#114 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-16 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

the market solution to people with expensive dieseases was to: Let them die!
#104 | Posted by hatter5183

#115 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-06-16 02:48 PM | Reply

#110 | Posted by LastAmerican

You didn't answer the question, which was "why didn't market forces correct the problems BEFORE the ACA?"

#116 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2017-06-16 02:50 PM | Reply

#116 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

The Republicans are proposing to send back to states and then open up interstate trade essentially deregulating the industry.

#117 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-17 10:03 AM | Reply

Danforth,

Sorry, but you constantly move the goalposts.

whatever, man.

You won the argument if that's what you call it. LOL. Do you feel proud of yourself?

#118 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-17 10:05 AM | Reply

"and then open up interstate trade essentially deregulating the industry. "

Interstate trade is already legal. Building the necessary base of customers to reach acceptable actuarial levels has been the stumbling block.

#119 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-17 10:06 AM | Reply

Stop pretending conservatives teach a man to fish when they have been cutting education funding at both state and federal levels for 40 years
#113 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Why the pissing contest? Try and open your mind when someone destroys your belief system.

#120 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-17 10:07 AM | Reply

"Why the pissing contest? "

Well, if you analyze what keeps happening, the sequence looks like this:

1. You make an incorrect statement.
2. Someone with knowledge/experience points out where you've fallen short.
3. You declare victory and strut around.

#121 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-17 10:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#121 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Actually, LOL, I make a true statement that does not fit your false narrative and then you follow me all over the DR swapping goalposts and trolling, calling me names. You're embarrassing yourself.

You didn't refute anything. You changed the goalposts and when I wouldn't answer, you claim victory. You should really look into not doing that.

I told you before. Just relax.

#122 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2017-06-17 11:10 AM | Reply

"You didn't refute anything."

In post #117, you suggested changes would allow something to happen which already happens. Your claim was refuted.

But keep doing the touchdown dance every time the other team scores. It's downright hilarious.

#123 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-06-17 11:27 AM | Reply

1. You make an incorrect statement.
2. Someone with knowledge/experience points out where you've fallen short.
3. You declare victory and strut around.

It's Eddie. That's been his MO for the past decade.

I'm not sure why RCade would permaban Goatman. Yet allow this festering troll to remain.

Possibly because Eddie has no problem simply changing usernames and continuing to troll. Whereas Goatman had too much pride in himself and his opinions to ever do such a thing.

#124 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-06-17 05:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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