Thursday, February 01, 2018

Big Lies, Law Enforcement, & the Defense of Rod Rosenstein

Trump started discovering quickly that the FBI and the intelligence communities are not the janissaries of the powerful. And he didn't like it. His response? First, try to change this reality quietly. Try to corrupt Comey and get a pledge of loyalty from him. Install an attorney general he expected to behave as he imagined Holder had for Obama. It was as that effort failed that the big lie emerged. That big lie is the notion that federal law enforcement is already behaving as corruptly as the president aspires for it to. The wrinkle is that the big lie imagines that law enforcement is behaving corruptly not in support of the president but on behalf of his political enemies. Instead of saying the truth, which is that Trump wants a law enforcement apparatus that will act corruptly on his behalf, he created an audacious smear in which it is acting to protect Hillary Clinton and destroy him.

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The purpose of this big lie is twofold: the lie discredits the investigation against Trump in the minds of a large swath of the public and, perhaps more importantly, tends to tear down the institutions responsible for such investigations in general, with an eye toward their reconstitution in the image of the lie itself. In other words, the goal is to use the lie of politicized law enforcement to effectuate the politicization of law enforcement. By falsely describing a set of corrupt institutions, even by complaining of them, it is possible to lower public expectations to the point of accepting their corruption. Indeed, the lie seeks not merely to destroy the current leadership and install leadership more apt to behave in the fashion the president wants; it also erodes public confidence in the premise that a different reality ever existed.

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More from the article (keeping in mind that Trump is an expert liar who also kept a book of Hitler's speeches by his bedside):

The "Big Lie" passage from "Mein Kampf" is one of the turgid tome's most famous passages. It reads:

All this was inspired by the principle -- which is quite true in itself -- that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-01 03:21 PM

FTA:
" I called on him to resign for his role in enabling President Trump's firing of James Comey as FBI director. I argued that he should resign in response to Trump's attacks on the integrity of the Justice Department -- and I questioned his honor... "
But now that Trump wants him out? Oh HELL no.

#2 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-02-01 04:20 PM

#2 from the article:

And yet: The defense of Rosenstein represents an imperative for everyone who is concerned about the Trump administration's predations against the independence of law enforcement.

There will come a time to litigate the question of Rosenstein's handling of the many bizarre questions he confronted in his role as deputy attorney general. Today is not that day. Today is a day to understand that apolitical law enforcement is stronger with him than without him, and that it would suffer a genuine blow if the president and the House Intelligence Committee chairman can lie the deputy attorney general out of government.

Let me explain:

#3 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-01 04:37 PM

Who believes this drivel?

#4 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 08:53 PM

Oh, I found someone, the drooling idiot, Joe Kennedy.

#5 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 08:53 PM

Ezra Klein‏ @ezraklein

Today is, unfortunately, a good day to listen to my interview with the authors of How Democracies Die. One big lesson: what decides the fate of political systems isn't demagogues, but how established political parties react to them.

How Democracies Die is three books woven together. One summarizes acres of research on how democracies tumble into autocracy. The second is an analysis of the troubling conditions under which American democracy thrived and the reasons it has entered into decline. The third book is a fretful tour of Trump's first year in office, and the ways in which his instincts and actions mirror those of would-be autocrats before him.

art19.com

#6 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-01 09:17 PM

Democracy dies in darkness.

Release the Memo.

#7 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 09:43 PM

"Release the memo." - #7 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 09:43 PM

You mean the Schiff memo.

Otherwise, Democracy dies in darkness.

Good for you.

#8 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-01 09:55 PM

Sure release them both. People are smart enough to determine the truth.

#9 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 10:06 PM

"People are smart enough to determine the truth." - #9 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 10:06 PM

If your posting history here is any indication, you're clearly not smart enough.

#10 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-01 10:09 PM

Really, that is all you got?

#11 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 10:17 PM

"Really, that is all you got?" - #11 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-01 10:17 PM

Really, that's all that is needed.

#12 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-01 10:21 PM

And the fisa warrant

#13 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-02-01 10:37 PM

This is all you need to know about the memo:

President Donald Trump is at odds with his own chief law enforcement officers over a controversial memo fueling Republican allegations of a conspiracy against the Trump presidency. But by all indications, the president is less amenable to the concerns of his own FBI than those shared by a less formal, more bombastic adviser.

That adviser is Sean Hannity, who has been hyping the so-called Nunes memo all week, and with whom the president continues to speak regularly.

According to three sources with knowledge of their conversations, Trump has been in regular contact with Hannity over the phone in recent weeks, as the Fox News primetime star and Trump ally has encouraged the prompt release of a controversial four page memo crafted by Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee. Hannity has gone to the wall to push for the public release of the memo, which the Intelligence Committee and its chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA), authorized this week in a party-line vote despite the classified information therein.

Sources say Hannity's persistent advocacy reinforced Trump's already growing determination to get that memo into the public realm -- despite huge potential fallout within the law enforcement and intelligence arms of his own administration.

www.thedailybeast.com

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-01 10:42 PM

"And the fisa warrant" - #13 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-02-01 10:37 PM

You mean the FISA warrant fully vetted and issued according to the rules?

That FISA warrant?

And they said you were stupid.

#15 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-01 10:42 PM

"And the fisa warrant"

Be careful what you wish for.

#16 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-01 10:44 PM

You mean the FISA warrant fully vetted and issued according to the rules?

Yes, and it should include the attached affidavits....

You think its "rules" and unbiased ... you are cute

The court makes its own rules and operates in secret. It decides matters like the now infamous Verizon order leaked by Edward Snowden, which allowed for the collection of call detail records for millions of innocent Verizon customers. It relies on a general "heightened duty of candor," meaning that the government is supposed to go to extreme lengths to tell the court everything it ought to know to make the right decision.
www.eff.org

#17 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-02-02 12:04 PM

Be careful what you wish for.
#16 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Why? I want the raw data, not an interpretation via a political memos, unlike Hans, Democrats like Pelosi.

Let the country resolve it and get beyond this crap, either way.

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-02-02 12:09 PM

"Why? I want the raw data, not an interpretation via a political memos, unlike Hans, Democrats like Pelosi."

You want access to top secret information? I don't love FISA but I also don't see how our intel agencies could legally obtain information they need to protect the nation and protect their sources of information without FISA.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-02 12:29 PM

Does it not bother anyone that it was that easy for the FBI to obtain permission to *spy* on a Citizen of the United States of America?

And, when the group charged with over-site, to insure that this power is not abused, started asking questions they were stonewalled.

It is ironic that the same news organizations responsible for the Pentagon Papers being published are against this information coming to light.

Put it all out there. The FISA request, McCabe's testimony, all of it.

#20 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-02-03 01:05 AM

"Does it not bother anyone that it was that easy for the FBI to obtain permission to *spy* on a Citizen of the United States of America?"

Who said it was easy? And let's not forget Carter Page isn't just any US citizen but one who a history of involvement with Russian spies:

Former Trump Aide Carter Page Was on U.S. Counterintelligence Radar Before Russia Dossier

Court documents, testimony show foreign-policy adviser was known to authorities as early as 2013

www.wsj.com

#21 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-03 01:31 AM

Does it not bother anyone that it was that easy for the FBI to obtain permission to *spy* on a Citizen of the United States of America?

Of course, but is that what happened here? This memo and the underlying FISA warrant are about Page. He brought himself under scrutiny long before Steele or the warrant. Obtaining such a warrant is "easy" only if you believe the memo spin and the accompanying narrative.

And, when the group charged with over-site, to insure that this power is not abused, started asking questions they were stonewalled.

Stonewalled? Sure about that? Seems inconsistent with the timelines I've seen. The committee got the info it wanted. And here we are. Next up, Phase 2.

As an aside, among the individual overseers on the committee how did each vote on the amendment to include strengthened warrant requirements in the recent 702 re-authorization?

Put it all out there.

Sure, in due time. For now there's an ongoing grand jury investigation. That and intelligence community concerns. Those concerns can be overcome but first things first.

#22 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-03 01:43 AM

Question about the headline,
"Big Lies," is that like "Big Data?"

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-03 03:29 AM

MR.PADDOCK

Or, in a nutshell, everyday life on the Retort.

But thanks anyway. It's nice to know somebody else understands. I can't speak for everybody but I try to keep that "Freedom of Speech" thing in mind. And also, everybody is entitled to an opinion as long as it's not abusive by Retort standards. I'm sure the liberal opinions expressed here are equally as irritating to hard-core Trump supporter.

If I were you, I wouldn't put too much stock in the non-stop political bickering on his site. It's basically just a place to vent anonymously. Take it with a grain of salt and, if you continue to post here, try not to over analyze.

#25 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 04:52 AM

Prepare to be on probation for a while. Sad to say, but we don't always accept a newbie at first blush. It's not personal ~ just cautionary to guard against some bad actors who like to reinvent themselves from time to time.

#33 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 05:32 AM

Toodles, kohai

#36 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 05:53 AM

"This Is What Losers Look Like"

#38 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 06:35 AM

Democracy dies in darkness.
Release the Memo.
#7 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

...and the Tax returns
...and the WH visitor logs
...etc.

See where I'm going here?

#39 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2018-02-03 08:20 AM

SAWDUST

Or how about all those "closed door" interviews the House Intel committee has with a certain privileged few ~ like Kushner for example. You know, full transparency so democracy doesn't die in the darkness.

#40 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 09:00 AM

A lot of supposition here.

#41 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-02-03 02:30 PM

Put it all out there. The FISA request, McCabe's testimony, all of it.

#20 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

While you are at it throw in Humpy Trumpy's tax returns.

You know.

For transparency.

Let the sun shine in! 🌞

Then we can get on with the indictments of Humpy Trumpy and his corrupt traitorous cronies.

#42 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-03 03:00 PM

Today is, unfortunately, a good day to listen to my interview with the authors of How Democracies Die. One big lesson: what decides the fate of political systems isn't demagogues, but how established political parties react to them.
#6| Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Here's a whole thread dedicated to this topic:

How Democracies Die

www.drudge.com

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-03 04:16 PM

GAL

Thanks for calling attention to JPW's thread. I encourage everybody to read it.

#44 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-03 04:30 PM

I think SAWDUST has had a change of opinion about transparency once he understood what the word "full" meant.

He's gone silent on the subject.

#45 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-02-04 06:28 AM

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