Saturday, December 30, 2017

Father Shoots Son Mistaken for Car Thief

He thought someone was stealing his truck on Christmas Eve, so he shot at the tailgate as it pulled away, relatives of the Alabama man say. It wasn't a thief, though. It was the man's son, borrowing the truck, family members told WIAT in Birmingham. The bullet struck 22-year-old Logan Wayne Trammell of Cullman, Ala., who died a few hours later on Christmas day. ... Family members say Trammell's father didn't know he was borrowing the truck when he drove away from his parents' home about 11:30 p.m. Sunday.

Comments

dear God, poor man.

#1 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-12-28 10:55 PM

Poor kid. He's the dead one.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-28 10:57 PM

They say the father thought someone was stealing the truck so he yelled out and fired a warning shot into the air. Then he shot once at the tailgate, they claim.

Nothing stops a stolen truck faster than a shot in the tailgate.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-28 11:04 PM

Honest mistake.

Everybody knows a truck is worth more than the life of a perceived thief.

#4 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-12-28 11:24 PM

Darwin wins again.

#5 | Posted by bored at 2017-12-29 01:18 AM

I just read the article. Is everyone in Alabama retarded?

#6 | Posted by bored at 2017-12-29 01:25 AM

It was just a horrific accident. A horrific accident.

It's not an accident if you hit what you're aiming for (don't believe the tailgate story one bit).

It's pure idiocy that he fired without knowing his target, justified in his mind by a "stolen" vehicle.

Own it, Bubba, and remember next time you feel like drawing that weapon.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 02:20 AM

"I just read the article. Is everyone in Alabama retarded?"

No, but most are.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-29 08:34 AM

No, but most are.

#8 | POSTED BY DANNI

Give them some credit Danni. They are doing better.

According to the latest election results only 48.4% are still retarded.

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-29 09:12 AM

This is why you insure your vehicles. It avoids all the unnecessary murder.

#10 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 09:38 AM

Bruce, I notice you're being accused of being a conservative.

why?

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-29 09:43 AM

They kicked me out of the club because I didn't join the dirt bag left. After seeing repeated ugly behavior, I agreed that I was not part of the dirt bag left and switched my DR affiliation to conservative. I would describe myself as centrist. I should check if RCade put up new options.

#12 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 10:00 AM

He did! I made it Conservative Democrat.

#13 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 10:06 AM

I think a few people here would really be anarchists.

#14 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 10:06 AM

Interesting....good for you. I have found it to be quite liberating to be unattached to either party or ideology.

I simply don't fall on one side of most issues.

I probably align with the left here more often than not but you wouldn't know that by the exchanges and trolling from the "dirt bag" club.

You'll be harassed by them. It's okay. But remember....some of them have special status.

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-29 10:35 AM

because I didn't join the dirt bag left.

LOL

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 12:27 PM

You like that phrase? It's very appropriate, eh?

#17 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 12:44 PM

But remember....some of them have special status.

Special needs is more accurate.

#18 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-12-29 12:55 PM

You like that phrase? It's very appropriate, eh?

#17 | Posted by BruceBanner

You're either bitter or trying to spin it as "I didn't join" when they wouldn't have you.

In any case, have fun with your ball at home.

I'm sure it'll give you that unity on the left you've talked about in the past.

#19 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 01:16 PM

I'm not angry, just disappointed.

#20 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 01:18 PM

So why change your political label? I guess it doesn't really matter since it's just a label, but it's clearly a protest of some sort.

People are what they are, no reason to let that affect you.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 01:23 PM

It's my statement that I can't participate in the movement the way it is.

Where do you see some spin in my #12? I said I was excluded and eventually agreed to accept that I was out of touch with the movement. I'm clearly not politically aligned with most of the leftist posters. I think I can include you in that group.

#22 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 01:27 PM

Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

Looks like he failed to follow rules #2 and #4 in addition to being an idiot.

#23 | Posted by AKat at 2017-12-29 02:04 PM

And rule 3

#24 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 02:11 PM

#22 include me if you would like. I have not had any allegiance to Bernie himself, but more to the ideas he was espousing that were closely aligned with what was polling well for Trump. It was clear a member of the old guard wasn't going to fair well (that was clear for years before 2016) and they won't do well for the foreseeable future.

If that's some radical idea you'd like to distance yourself from then so be it.

#25 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 03:49 PM

Interesting how you only listen to the voices in your head. I have have been clear in distancing myself from such behavior, thank you.

#26 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 04:00 PM

Only to the voices in my head?

What are you pouting about if not the Bernie Bros?

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-29 04:18 PM

There are a few structural issues besides general buffoonery associated with the bernie bro thing. I'm helping some people get a GC-rich PCR done so I'll try to post an article about it soon.

#28 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-29 04:49 PM

Gosh, what a terrible story. But this is what happens when every idiot is packing: People get shot, and sometimes they die.

The efficacy of killing by gun is not a "right" or "left" issue. Guns are deadly things. They are equally effective at killing liberals, conservatives, Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, or budding country singers.

#29 | Posted by cbob at 2017-12-29 05:16 PM

Was he a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun? The only things sure are that he had a gun and the kid is dead.

#30 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2017-12-29 05:55 PM

Good guy obviously... he stopped the truck from being "stolen".

#31 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-29 06:03 PM

More guns would have surely prevented this tragedy.

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-29 06:20 PM

I usually ask before I borrow something.

But they probably celebrated their last MERRY Christmas.

#33 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-12-29 06:34 PM

The year before.

#34 | Posted by bruceaz at 2017-12-29 06:36 PM

I usually ask before I borrow something.
#33 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ

This doesn't justify the killing, but....

Obviously, the dad did not know the kid was 'borrowing' the truck. How many of you would sneak up to your dad's house and try to 'borrow' his vehicle without telling him?

#35 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-30 08:58 AM

This doesn't justify the killing, but....
#35 | POSTED BY KUDZU

Then why are you deflecting some of the blame onto victim? Where do you get the idea that the son was being sneaky about taking the truck? It doesn't say that in the article. What it does say is that the father was in his workshop recording music. For all we know, Logan told his mom he was taking the truck or yelled, hey I'm taking the truck but his father couldn't hear him over the music.
The fault lies 100% on the gun toting shoot first/ask later father who, even if the truck was being stolen, broke Alabama state law which prohibits the use of deadly force to prevent property theft. The father should be charged with murder.

#36 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-12-30 11:53 AM

Curious how little has been mentioned about the obvious:

What was at stake here? A truck and most likely an insured vehicle at that! Just a mass of metal, glass, and plastic (except it now it has a new hole, blood stains, and a possibly a small amount of lead added). Happy motoring. Anyone want to own or even drive this truck now?

Yes, it's tragic that it was HIS son, but it was likely being driven by SOMEBODY's child!

So, what was his justification to fire the gun:
- Greed ("It's my stuff and nobody should touch it!")?
- Pride ("How dare someone steal from ME!")?
- Insanity ("I can shoot a gun at something because the bullet will only go where I intend!")?

Would you like this guy to be your neighbor? Feel safer?

As someone already pointed out: This family will never have another Merry Christmas.
Sadly, this guy just got a rude awakening/lesson in what is really valuable.
At least it won't be someone else's family.

#37 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2017-12-30 12:24 PM

Yes, it's tragic that it was HIS son, but it was likely being driven by SOMEBODY's child!

If it was someone else's kid this guy would be a stand-your-ground hero for taking out the thug.

#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-30 12:31 PM

Then why are you deflecting some of the blame onto victim?
#36 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE

because the victim was committing a crime by stealing the truck.

like i said, even if it was someone else's kid stealing the truck, it does not justify being killed. The law is pretty clear on this point.

#39 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-30 01:58 PM

This could never happened in my house, we never kept a gun there. All my kids are still alive and my grandkids too even though virtually all of us do have tempers, do drink, get in bad moods, etc. Had there been a gun handy I seriously doubt we'd still all be around. Live how you want but if tragedy ever finds you just know it won't ever find me in this situation.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-30 03:20 PM

... father who, even if the truck was being stolen, broke Alabama state law which prohibits the use of deadly force to prevent property theft.

Maybe, maybe not based on the reported facts.

His father was unaware that his son was borrowing his truck. Fearing the vehicle was being stolen, the family says he yelled out, firing a warning shot in the air in an attempt to get the driver's attention, and then shot once at the tailgate to stop whomever was taking the truck. http://wiat.com/2017/12/26/family-remembers-logan-trammell-22-year-old-accidentally-killed-by-
father/
Alabama Code Title 13A. Criminal Code § 13A-3-26
A person is justified in using physical force, other than deadly physical force, upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission by the other person of theft or criminal mischief with respect to property other than premises as defined in Section 13A-3-20.
Alabama Code Title 13A. Criminal Code § 13A-3-20
The following definitions are applicable to this article:

(2) Deadly physical force.  Force which, under the circumstances in which it is used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.

(4) Force.  Physical action or threat against another, including confinement.

A plausible argument can be made that firing a shot in the air and at the tailgate, as opposed to the driver, to prevent or terminate a perceived theft is not "readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury."

#41 | Posted by et_al at 2017-12-30 09:22 PM

Kill with a gun, you all good.

#42 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-30 09:28 PM

Guns keep us safe.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-30 09:36 PM

"not "readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury."
#41 | POSTED BY ET_AL"

Bull. That bullet is still readily capable of causing death to anyone in its path.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-30 09:39 PM

#41 this is very informative. Thank you.

#45 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-30 09:56 PM

"A person is justified in using physical force, other than deadly physical force"

Somehow Et_Al wants us to think guns don't deliver deadly physical force.

Serious question: are you actually a lawyer? I figure you have to be to make such a preposterous argument and keep a straight face. It's part of the training, to lie and pretend you're not.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-30 09:56 PM

It makes sense if you remove the dead body from the equation and any responsibility for the operator of the firearm for the trajectory of the bullet. Which is what happens in every thread this kind of ---- comes up in.

#47 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-30 10:12 PM

It makes sense if you remove the dead body from the equation and any responsibility for the operator of the firearm for the trajectory of the bullet.

And that makes sense if you assume every discharge of a firearm will result in death or injury. In which event, a firearm can never be discharged because no matter the responsibility of the operator something might go wrong, a bullet ricochets, and someone may die or be hurt.

Which is what happens in every thread this kind of ---- comes up in.

Because there are idiots on both sides of the issue. One that says guns are always bad. Another that says guns are always good. Very few try to find a middle ground. Thankfully the law is not such a harsh mistress and recognizes humans are fallible and that not every screw up, mistake or accident is deserving of criminal punishment.

#48 | Posted by et_al at 2017-12-30 10:43 PM

It's not a mistake or accident to fire your gun at your vehicle at 11:30pm at night, Et.

One thing I've noticed over the years of reading message boards is that Libertarians protect what they love, namely firearms and the unlimited use of their private property, no matter who it affects collaterally. It's a hilarious blind spot that they refuse to see when they formulate theories and come to conclusions requiring the removal of most aspects of reality, or variables in the equation, to protect what they love: guns and the freedom from accountability. In other words: children.

#49 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-30 10:54 PM

"Because there are idiots on both sides of the issue."

That doesn't mean you have to be one.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-30 11:01 PM

What's clear is, if the father didn't own a gun, he would have beat his son to death with his fists.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:03 PM

Bruce, I notice you're being accused of being a conservative.
why?
#11 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-12-29 09:43 AM | FLAG:

No one is accusing him of anything. He's a conservative by self admission.

BRUCEBANNER

Check out my homepage for more!

Seniority: 202

Party: Democrat

Ideology: Conservative

Contact User
Visit Home Page

Joined 2009/10/09
Visited 2017/12/30

Status: user

#52 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:07 PM

They kicked me out of the club...
#12 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2017-12-29 10:00 AM | FLAG: waahhh

He's even got the classic conservative victim mentality.

#53 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:10 PM

You'll be harassed by them.
#15 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-12-29 10:35 AM | FLAG:

He's a victim of conservatism.

But at least he's got you to protect him. Now that he's part of your club, of "non partisan" conservatives.

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:12 PM

I was excluded and eventually agreed to accept that I was out of touch with the movement. I'm clearly not politically aligned with most of the leftist posters. I think I can include you in that group.
#22 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2017-12-29 01:27 PM | FLAG:

Oh my god, you're such a victim.

You poor baby.

Conservatism is a much better ideology for you. It requires everyone to think the same. That way you'll always have to be politically aligned with the hive mind.

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:17 PM

Status: user
#52 | Posted by ClownShack

Yes, but a user of what, may I ask?

#56 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-30 11:22 PM

It's not a mistake or accident to fire your gun at your vehicle ...

Put what I wrote in context. Someone claimed Dad violated Alabama law and should be charged with murder. I retorted with known facts and quoted Alabama law. Then made a plausible argument for a legal defense to such charges. You know, what criminal defense lawyers are required to do, not that I are one. Reasonable people can disagree but the defense is there.

Dad clearly engaged in intentional conduct. The question is whether that conduct is or should be subject to criminal sanction. Some posit yes, absolutely. Apparently that is because any discharged a firearm, to them, is capable of causing injury or death. In the extreme that is true yet as a practical matter not so much as anyone with a modicum of experience with firearms, who are not children, can attest.

#57 | Posted by et_al at 2017-12-30 11:28 PM

a user of what, may I ask?

Being he's a conservative.

Your safe bets are.

Meth and young boys.

#58 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:28 PM

a user of what, may I ask?

Being he's a conservative.
Your safe bets are.
Meth and young boys.
#58 | Posted by ClownShack

Ahhh some of that good old timey religon

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-30 11:31 PM

some of that good old timey religon

Jesus forgives you if you preach the sins of drug use and homosexuality to your constituents.

#60 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-30 11:37 PM

some of that good old timey religon
Jesus forgives you if you preach the sins of drug use and homosexuality to your constituents.
#60 | Posted by ClownShack a

and tax cuts for billionaires, god loves that

#61 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-12-30 11:42 PM

Pavlov would love to study such dogs. Look at you all yapping. Feeling so clever.

#62 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-30 11:43 PM

But at least he's got you to protect him.

#54 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2017-12-30 11:12 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

From what? Words on the internet, posted by someone I don't know? Who never actually read or understood anything I've ever posted?

It won't be necessary. It never has.

#63 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-31 12:09 AM

Et_al, I considered that an it is why I said he should be charged with murder instead of calling him guilty.

That's a weak ass defense and would take a very sympathetic/stupid juror to buy the idea that firing a gun in the direction of another person without the explicit desire to hit them somehow excuses the shooter of the crime.

If that argument works then there should be few if any murder convictions ever again in Alabama because the defense just has to claim their client didn't actually intend to kill the victim.

#64 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-12-31 12:25 AM

From what? Words on the internet, posted by someone I don't know? Who never actually read or understood anything I've ever posted?
It won't be necessary. It never has.
#63 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2017-12-31 12:09 AM | FLAG:

I've never really attacked you Bruce. And I've read a lot of what you have written.

After you told me you were a conservative democrat, your support for Hillary made sense.

I was just taken back by your victim mentality on this thread.

I'd say you share a similar political perspective as many on the DR. Mainly the Corky, Tony, Docs... of the DR.

Stop trying to act so pathetic. It doesn't suit you.

#65 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-31 05:14 AM

"They kicked me out of the club..."

Don't know what Bruce's problem is but right is still right and wrong is still wrong and the Republicans are just wrong. Trying to destroy ACA has been their goal now for how many years? And please tell me what is right about that? Cutting taxes on billionaires when the CBO tells us this will result in trillions of dollars more debt for people who just don't need the money? I don't know where your head is at Bruce but you do seem to have your feelings hurt but I just can't understand changing my beliefs because someone hurt my feelings. But hey, that's just me.

#66 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-31 10:06 AM

"But at least he's got you to protect him. Now that he's part of your club, of "non partisan" conservatives."

Whatever that means.

But we all know you'll be calling him a racist in no time.

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-31 10:30 AM

Wow, clownshart was very hurt that Bruce made a choice to make a change.

Very hurt indeed. Bruce nor myself mentioned him once but clown must believe we were specifically talking about him when the term "dirt bag club" was used and the rabid nastiness of some lefties.

Poor soul.

#68 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-31 10:40 AM

In the 80's, I was mugged in Birmingham. The guy snuck up behind me as i was getting out of my car, stuck a gun in my back, took my wallet and ran around the corner.

I had a gun in my car and by the time i grabbed it, he was gone. I told that to the police officer, that i wanted to shoot him but he was too fast and got away.

The policeman told me that it was illegal to shoot someone, who is fleeing, in the back, because he presented no imminent threat to me. He said that if I had shot him, he would be taking me to jail. I have no idea if those laws have changed.

(the fun part is that i had like 3 dollars in my wallet when i was mugged. I was actually in town to meet a contractor that i had done some material take-offs for. He was paying me $1600 cash. If the mugger had waited till i was coming back out, he could have gotten $1603).

#69 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-12-31 11:02 AM

in these troubling times, a "feel good" story like this is truly appreciated. i only wish he'd had a bump stock equipped rifle so he could've run off a few dozen rounds...maybe got some of the neighbors' kids too. oh well, maybe next christmas

#70 | Posted by ABlock at 2017-12-31 01:30 PM

"Apparently that is because any discharged a firearm, to them, is capable of causing injury or death. In the extreme that is true yet as a practical matter not so much as anyone with a modicum of experience with firearms, who are not children, can attest."

Your false dichotomy is terrible.

He fired at s fleeing truck, intending to stop it.

His shot achieved the desired result.

It's murder.

This wasn't LA cops on the manhunt for Eric Garner, who are allowed to shoot at what they thought was the suspect's truck.

That being said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a jury decides he's suffered enough.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-31 02:24 PM

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a jury decides he's suffered enough.

As if he'll ever see a jury.

#72 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-31 02:34 PM

But we all know you'll be calling him a racist in no time.
#67 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2017-12-31 10:30 AM

No Beverly, the only proven racist on the DR is you.

Which is why I call you a racist.

Good job of trying to throw Bruce under the bus. Guess you don't have his back.

#73 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-31 02:54 PM

Wow, clownshart was very hurt that Bruce made a choice to make a change.

Actually, if you could comprehend what I wrote in #65, you'd understand, once I realized Bruce was a conservative democrat, his opinions made sense to me.

Bruce nor myself mentioned him once but clown must believe we were specifically talking about him when the term "dirt bag club" was used and the rabid nastiness of some lefties.
Poor soul.
#68 | POSTED BY BEVERLY AT 2017-12-31 10:40 AM | FLAG:

It doesn't matter what you think you know. Bruce and I actually had this discussion back during the DNC primaries.

His sudden victim mentality was what threw me off. Which was why I responded.

You think too highly of yourself.

You arrogant moron.

#74 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-31 03:02 PM

Funny thing about this thread.

None of our gun-toting right wingers said we need to "enforce the existing laws."

What's up with that?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-31 03:17 PM

I've never really attacked you Bruce.
#65 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Written a mere 7 post after you posted the below post. Care to explain?

a user of what, may I ask?

Being he's a conservative.
Your safe bets are.
Meth and young boys.
#58 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

#76 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2017-12-31 04:41 PM

"You arrogant moron."

Happy new year, Shart.

#77 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-31 05:41 PM

"It doesn't matter what you think you know"

You're offended and butthurt. That's obvious.

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-31 05:42 PM

To anyone that reads this...
I hope you choke on an appetizer tonight while everyone else is singing auld lang syne.
Happy New Year to the rest of you.

#79 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-31 06:05 PM

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