Monday, December 11, 2017

Fascism Runs in My American Family

Jared Yates Sexton: The change first came in the weeks after September 11. Whereas my family had kept their slurs and fascist ideologies largely confined to the safety of our homes, now they were openly having these conversations with other like-minded people in public. At lunch I'd overhear neighbors refer to "towel---," "sand---," and it was nothing for a quick chat at the Wal-Mart to be punctuated by a call to bomb every man, woman, and child in the Middle East until there was nothing left. "Turn the desert into glass," they said. "Let God sort 'em out." In the years following, there were less of these open displays as polite society frowned upon them, but they didn't stop altogether.

More

They were adamantly in favor of the Iraq War, an unjust invasion, and openly supported waterboarding and torture and, like their eventual hero Donald Trump, they thought there should be even more violent methods of getting information.

Simply put, people like this have never been interested in the principles the United States of America were founded upon. ...

My relatives, and others like them, have clung to that Constitution when it has served their interests, primarily the 2nd Amendment, which protects their guns, and occasionally the 1st Amendment, when they feel pressured by shared society. But they are quick to abandon the Constitution when it suits their interests. ...

I cannot say they are fascists, but I can definitely say they hold fascist ideas. This is why they hardly blink when Donald Trump quickly erodes the normal order of the government, why they're not concerned when he undermines the Freedom of the Press or cozies up to authoritarian leaders. They love it when he tells policemen to be rough on suspects. They want someone who plays nuclear chicken with a despot while the lives of hundreds of million innocent people lie in the balance.

Comments

Per the article ...

Like many, I celebrated the night Barack Obama was elected President of the United States of America.

Coming from my background, I wasn't sure if an African American could overcome the deep-seated prejudice in this country, but I was pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.

Online, I saw that that relative, along with a few others, were posting racist memes that, with very little work, could be traced back to Facebook sites that served as fronts for white supremacist groups.

Obama's eight years in office yielded more and more of these posts as my relatives openly expressed offensive sentiments and, at times, wished death upon the president.

Supported by others like them, and falling more and more in line with those white supremacists, I realized the conversations that'd began in our living room were leaking out into the world proper.


For years I've challenged people on this website to admit to receiving those viral racist Obama emails that EVERYONE got the moment Obama was elected.

People receiving those racist emails had two choices -- delete them or foward them to their like minded family and friends.

I deleted the ones I got from former military buddies and childhood friends who thought they were benign.

Anyone else?

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2017-12-10 04:45 PM

I've never received a racist email. I have never received an email about Pres. Obama. I'm from Augusta, GA. My family is from Augusta and Columbus, GA. Those are on borders with SC and AL respectively. I spent a decent amount of time in both those states. Growing up, I worked with lots of Richmond County police officers. None ever gave the appearance of racist actions. I did not see much racism in Augusta.

I went to college at Georgia Tech in Atlanta pre-Olympics. Dormed in 'Techwood', 1 building out of a 16 building square that was ------ low income/government housing. There were a whole lot fewer African Americans in GT, but the school was surrounded by predominantly AA communities. No student or teacher at GT ever said anything racist in my presence.

When I joined the Navy, I met people from all over the country. Spent time in Orlando, San Diego, Seattle, and wound up in Norfolk. The enlisted were often segregated by rate much more than by race. There were a lot more AA's in departments other than the reactor department. The one AA in on of my RC (reactor controls, a bunch of electronics technicians) derpartments was an avid hockey player who was friends with everyone, everywhere.

I haven't seen much racism against AAs here in Norfolk. Where I work, my closest co-worker is an AA. We ride wave-runners together with our wives during the summer months. My boss is AA (but he claims to be the whitest black-man in the world). I was at the wedding with his Asian wife. My next senior boss in a woman who is the toughest person that i know.

Where is it that people are seeing all of this racism and facism? It's not anywhere I've ever been.

#2 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-10 10:28 PM

What's an "AA"?

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-10 10:58 PM

Oh, never mind.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-12-10 10:59 PM

The hoods are off.
www.theatlantic.com

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-10 11:14 PM

"Where is it that people are seeing all of this racism and facism?"

People like you usually see it in Democrats and Democrat policies, don't you?

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-10 11:53 PM

Fascism runs from my American family.

#7 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-12-11 02:06 PM

#2 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-10 10:28 PM

Having lived in Columbus GA and visited Augusta many times, you are either lying or have lived in a bubble. Both cities are hotbeds of racism. Even if you had never received e-mails yourself, you would have had to see the obvious de jour segregation and racism in those communities. I saw Klan activity, rural areas near these cities with beatings of black citizens, and more.

#8 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-12-11 03:43 PM

Graduated Westside High-school in Augusta. Couldn't finish a scrambledog at Dinglewood pharmacy in Columbus. Segregation isn't the same as racism and facism. Admittedly, my time there was 20 years ago, but I never experienced anything like what is being described above. Augusta, my home-town, is a majority black city. I don't know how much bubble I could have had surrounded by AAs my whole life.

#9 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-11 07:27 PM

Fascism doesn't run in the author's family...racism does.

Fascism is a political philosophy that began in Italy as an off-shoot of socialism. It contains naitonalist elements, but is not inherently racist. In fact the Italian fascist party included jewish members in the 1930s, up until the point where Mussolini became reliant on Hitler to defend Italy. And the Spanish fascist party assisted jewish families in escaping from European areas controlled by the National Socialists.

If the author's family had been vocal about the need for a strong central government to play the role of parent to society, he's be correct in stating that fascism runs in his family. But I didn't get that from the article.

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-11 09:23 PM

"For years I've challenged people on this website to admit to receiving those viral racist Obama emails that EVERYONE got the moment Obama was elected."

I May have gotten a few of those early on.

So?

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-11 10:15 PM

I May have gotten a few of those early on.
So?

#11 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Millions of Americans share your casual bigotry ...

MANY AMERICANS HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH WHITE NATIONALISTS THAN THEY THINK, POLL FINDS

www.newsweek.com

Very few Americans will say outright that they support neo-Nazism, white nationalism or the so-called alt right. But that doesn't mean they don't express support for some of the same racially-charged ideas and attitudes that such extremists espouse.

A new poll conducted by Reuters and Ipsos with the University of Virginia Center for Politics in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rallies found what it called "troubling racial attitudes."

Only six percent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat supported the alt-right, while eight percent said the same of white nationalism and just four percent of neo-Nazism.

In the case of the alt-right and white nationalism, a staggering one-fifth said they neither support nor oppose the groups.

"Let's remember, there are nearly 250 million adults in the United States, so even small percentages likely represent the beliefs of many millions of Americans," Larry J. Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center of Politics, is quoted as saying.

About 70 percent of respondents strongly agreed that people of different races should be "free to live wherever they choose" and that "all races are equal," and 89 percent agreed that all races should be treated equally.

At the same time, 31 percent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat agreed that the country needs to "protect and preserve its White European heritage," while 34 percent strongly or somewhat disagreed and 29 percent said they neither agreed nor disagreed.

Nearly a third of respondents failed to express support of interracial marriage -- with 16 percent agreeing outright that "marriage should only be allowed between two people of the same race," 14 percent neither agreeing nor disagreeing and four percent saying they didn't know.

The poll also revealed disparities in which groups Americans believe are "under attack."

More than a third -- 39 percent -- of respondents strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement that "white people are currently under attack in this country."

There were significant differences in responses depending on race and political affiliation -- 29 percent of white respondents disagreed with the statement compared to 54 percent of non-white respondents, while 21 percent of Democrats agreed compared to 63 percent of Republicans.

Conversely, 55 percent of respondents strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement that "racial minorities are currently under attack in this country," with just 13 percent of racial minorities disagreeing and 27 percent of white respondents disagreeing.

Only 26 percent of white respondents expressed support for the Black Lives Matter movement compared to 33 percent of Hispanic respondents and 62 percent of African-American respondents.

More than half (52 percent) of Democrats expressed support while 62 percent of Republicans opposed BLM.


People who passed around those viral racist Obama emails are the root cause of America's problem.

#12 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2017-12-12 06:50 AM

German Nazis taught that the Aryan race was superior and the black race was inferior, whereas Jews were singularly responsible for Germany's economic problems. When Jesse Owens beat every other runner Hitler refused to witness the award ceremony. But the essence of Fascism is the convergence of Corporate and National interests by recruiting the military, judicial and intelligence divisions of the Government to fulfill Corporate objectives, instead of promoting the general welfare of its citizenry. It should be obvious to the most casual observer that EVERYTHING the Republicans are doing in the USA today fits the Fascist model of Governance. It has dominated foreign policy since WWII and attacked domestic policy since about 1975.

Madbomber writes a revisionist history to justify his vision of Government by Fascist Oligarchy. We can only hope Trump's presence on the world stage will serve as a wake-up call for the American electorate to effect the changes necessary to achieve a greater prosperity through the philosophy of FDR and Eisenhower, who both considered mainstream Republican philosophy characterized by Ryan and Sessions as completely false doctrine. Their tax plan is a pack of lies and their fearless leader Trump is the most prodigious liar in American history.

#13 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-12 07:29 AM

#2 | Posted by Avigdore

Born and raised in Georgia.

You are absolutely full of crap.

Especially in those two cities.

Lies Trump would be proud of.

#14 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-12-12 07:49 AM

You are absolutely full of crap.
Especially in those two cities.
Lies Trump would be proud of.
#14 | Posted by Angrydad at 2017-12-12 07:49 AM

Go ahead and point out the lies. Or would it be easier to admit that you're the liar here?

#15 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-12 08:07 AM

#2, Avigdore, (picking up where angrydad left off),

Your story may very well be true, but it doesn't change the fact that there are large fundamental disparities in opportunities and incomes in this country based on race. The collection and distribution of property tax is vital to educational funding. Rich neighborhoods have good schools and poor ones have terrible schools. Einsteins contributions to mankind's knowledge could never have happened if he had been born in Africa or the Philippines. These disparities are deep seated economic and social structures. They do not make it impossible to succeed, but they make it very difficult for the poor to succeed. The poor must work harder and pay more for everything. Professional sports and the military are exceptions to these rules and blacks have migrated successfully into those sectors, but they are not representative of the economy at large.

#16 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-12 08:16 AM

"Go ahead and point out the lies. Or would it be easier to admit that you're the liar here?"

Those of us who have grown up in the south agree with ANGRYDAD because we've witnessed it all our lives. YOu are a liar and a fool. Don't even try to sell that crap here.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-12 09:37 AM

Reviewing my #2, it does appear in this sentence : 'Where is it that people are seeing all of this racism and facism? It's not anywhere I've ever been.' that I am claiming that the was no racism in any of the cities I lived in. That was not what I intended.

I meant it in a more literal sense of where I was, I never witnessed racism. The next street over, the next school district, the next town, the next ship, the next base...I was not speaking about those as I wasn't in a position to witness racism or the lack-thereof. I have been around black people my entire life. I have not personally ever witnessed racism. It's not anywhere I've ever been (while I was there).

Thanks to Danni for calling my attention to what people could be reading into my writing in this aritcle.

#18 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-12 09:57 AM

I grew up in Texas in various parts of Dallas/Fort Worth. I saw racism. I lived in a town where I had one black classmate in middle school. People didn't like that he was dating a white girl. His house burned down.

Earlier in my elementary school years there was a game kids played with a racist name where you knocked on doors and ran. It was called n----- knocking. There was also a racist nursery rhyme that had the line "catch a ------ by the toe." The word always made me uncomfortable. That kind of overt racism seemed to fade out as the 1970s progressed. I stopped hearing people use that word or express racist thoughts against black people.

My close family wasn't racist, but occasionally a distant relative would say something racist in my presence.

After I became an adult, one time someone brought a date to my house I didn't know. He was white. The man saw an NBA game on my television and began spewing the most racist stuff I'd ever heard. We told her never to bring that ass around us again.

I was fortunate to have tolerant parents and schools that taught us equality and celebrated the era of civil rights.

I don't encounter overt racism very often, but I do see times where people are being implicitly racist in their behavior and thinking. I think even a person who believes themselves tolerant must challenge their own beliefs and actions. Sometimes we let subconscious bias in. Sometimes we accept a system that's preferential to whites in ways we don't see.

#19 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-12 09:59 AM

"Madbomber writes a revisionist history to justify his vision of Government by Fascist Oligarchy."

I'm a Libertarian...which is about as far from fascism as you could hope to get. I'm simply presenting facts.

And the fact is that Fascism began as an offshoot of the Italian Socialist party under Benito Mussolini. It's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a fact. Equally factual is the fact that the party wasn't founded on any notion of racial purity.

"German Nazis taught that the Aryan race was superior and the black race was inferior."

It's hard to say which country treated blacks worse during the WWII timeframe, Germany or the US. Blacks in Germany were certainly considered an inferior race, but were never subject to mass extermination like the Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies. Also unlike the US, Germany didn't expect black citizens to fight for a government that was committed to keeping them as second class citizens.

#20 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 09:59 AM

"Your story may very well be true, but it doesn't change the fact that there are large fundamental disparities in opportunities and incomes in this country based on race."

Untrue.

Non-native black Americans do as well as anyone else when it comes to achieving success in this country. It's not race that's leading to the disparities.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 10:02 AM

"Also unlike the US, Germany didn't expect black citizens to fight for a government that was committed to keeping them as second class citizens."

Then in your next post you deny the affects of racism on the black race in America.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-12 10:07 AM

#18 Stop lying. Especially stop lying if you're trying to say you never saw racism in the military.

#23 | Posted by qcp at 2017-12-12 10:08 AM

I have witnessed racism my entire life. I still meet people to this very day who assume that because I am white that I agree with their racist comments. You want to recognize racism in this nation? Really? Then explain the treatment of Barrack Obama, his wife and his kids during his entire Presidency. Go ahead, deny it was racist. Underscore the fact you can't acknowledge the truth.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-12 10:11 AM

Just thought of something racist that I was personally witness to, that I really should have remembered:
Augusta National Admits First Black Member
Really it was more about overcoming something racist, but the previous not allowing AA's as members at the Nationals wasn't ok. I'm glad we got that change made.
It took another 22 years to get First Female Members.

#25 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-12 10:21 AM

#18 Stop lying. Especially stop lying if you're trying to say you never saw racism in the military. - #23 | Posted by qcp at 2017-12-12 10:08 AM
I have never seen
racism in my career in the US Navy, no. Maybe the nuclear program has a different breed of sailor.

#26 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-12 10:24 AM

"I don't encounter overt racism very often, but I do see times where people are being implicitly racist in their behavior and thinking. I think even a person who believes themselves tolerant must challenge their own beliefs and actions. Sometimes we let subconscious bias in. Sometimes we accept a system that's preferential to whites in ways we don't see."

I couldn't agree more.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-12 10:27 AM

"Then explain the treatment of Barrack Obama, his wife and his kids during his entire Presidency. Go ahead, deny it was racist"

Some of the treatment of Obama was political. It was personal but GWB, Clinton, and Trump face some harsh, over the line stuff that's totally uncalled for.

So....while some of the treatment the Obamas experienced was racist in nature, it certainly wasn't all that way.

We had tons and tons of arguments about that issue here. Every single thing Obama experienced was defined as "racism" by some here.

they were wrong then and they are wrong now. It wasn't all racism. Where do you draw the line? That's tough.

Kind of like Boaz here. He gets ravaged on this place. Is it because he is black? some of it....yes. But where do you draw that line?

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-12 10:31 AM

Kind of like Boaz here. He gets ravaged on this place. Is it because he is black? some of it....yes. But where do you draw that line?

Posted by eberly at 2017-12-12 10:31 AM | Reply

Boaz gets ravaged here because he talks out of his keister. He spews hatred for people not like him. He claims to hold the moral high ground against our so called enemies but acts just like them. He claims to support me as a transgender female yet insists that I'm a man. The list goes on and on.

#29 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-12-12 10:45 AM

Once seated, the professor began his lesson on privilege...

He handed out a blank piece of paper to each pupil and instructed them to write their names on the page, crumble them up, and throw them into the trash can he pulled in front of his desk. "Anyone who makes the shot, gets a one-letter-grade improvement on their final grade." Several folks in the last rows objected--they'd worked hard for their grades, one-letter is a big deal, etc., and the teacher silenced them. "Where you sat was a random result, much like birthrights."

Everyone shot, and unsurprisingly, the closer rows did better. After quieting the folks in the back--again--the teacher said "Here's the point..." and he turned to the folks in the front row.

"Where were your morals?" he asked. "Those in the back were being treated unfairly, yet none of you objected. Even when they pointed out their treatment, you were silent. You were too busy contemplating your close and easy goal to consider those with a disadvantage."

#30 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-12 10:55 AM

"Boaz gets ravaged here because he talks out of his keister."

I know. But he gets much worse than he dishes out. He gets personally ravaged and the boss allows it.

If he changed political ideology then it would stop in a heartbeat. We have plenty of lefties here who talk out their keister.

What is so special about Boaz? Gee...could it be his race?

Could you be a racist?

(I'm kidding with all of that but this is the rational for anything negative said about Obama by anyone not an Obamabot as racist.)

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-12 10:58 AM

"Then in your next post you deny the affects of racism on the black race in America."

I can look it up again-I have before-but I'm pretty sure that, on average, black immigrants are more successful than native-born whites.

"You want to recognize racism in this nation? Really? Then explain the treatment of Barrack Obama, his wife and his kids during his entire Presidency. Go ahead, deny it was racist. Underscore the fact you can't acknowledge the truth."

I seem to recall GWB and his family being treated pretty harshly as well...was that also racism?

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 10:59 AM

"#18 Stop lying. Especially stop lying if you're trying to say you never saw racism in the military."

It's kinda hard to dislike someone with a different skin color if you're relying on them to take care of you, and they're relying on you to take care of them.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 11:05 AM

I'm an aviator...maybe that's a different breed as well...even if history says otherwise.

Jess brown was the first Black fighter pilot in the US Navy. In his book, "Devotion", Adam Makos (who also wrote "A Higher Call") writes how Brown's fellow pilots would often fight with those who took issue with Brown being a Naval Aviator. And when Brown was shot down, one of his white wingmen actually crash landed his fighter in order to try and save him.

There is racism...but I would submit that those racists will find themselves far more marginalized than the members of those races they have an issue with.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 11:12 AM

I encountered blatant racism from members of every service throughout my military career, anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is either lying to you or lying to themselves.

#35 | Posted by qcp at 2017-12-12 11:17 AM

"I encountered blatant racism from members of every service throughout my military career, anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is either lying to you or lying to themselves."

Do you mind if I was what you did in the military?

I can see racism being more prevalent in career fields where you were not held at risk, but it's very difficult to be prejudicial against anyone you're relying on for survival and success...regardless of their skin color. Or any other factor for that matter.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-12 11:22 AM

MB, much like Stephen Colbert, doesn't see skin color, lmao.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-12 12:33 PM

#34

A blatant propagandist recommending blatant propaganda. Who do you expect your jingoistic inspirational tomes to actually convinced (apart from your fellow apologists)?

#38 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-12 01:21 PM

If you have lived in Georgia for a significant period of time and "not seen racism", then you might want to consider that maybe you don't know what racism looks like. Or that the things you see happen related to people of color that you laugh off as harmless jokes or that you don't think are "because of race", actually are.

#39 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2017-12-12 04:28 PM

"Who do you expect your jingoistic inspirational tomes to actually convinced (apart from your fellow apologists)?"

I expect it to impact people who are using their nuggets...you would probably refer to the as counter-revolutionaries or reactionary bourgeoisie or something similar.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 04:06 AM

madbomber,

The purpose of Hitler's wars was to capture resources for German Corporations, including the most brutal forms of slavery. This is EXACTLY what the USA is doing for US Corporations domestically and globally. Its the purpose for killing Obamacare. Its the purpose of the Republican tax plan.

There were no blacks in Germany during WWII, so your point that Hitler was not racist has no merit. Hitler was a dictator whose regime practiced eugenics, a major component of which was racist. His first act, after winning his one and only election, was to assassinate the socialists within his party. Pretending the Nazis were or are socialists is revisionist history.

People still get to vote in this country, but Hitler put a stop to that. Hopefully the defeat of Moore will lead to the defeat the Republican Tax Plan.

Libertarianism is bunk. Free Markets are a reasonable model for most consumer products, but big fish eat little fish. Anybody that has ever played Monopoly should have learned this. In order for a nation to be competitive in global markets the basics for living and working should be provided at the lowest possible cost. This includes education, water, power, roads, rent and health care. Public utilities provide these services at lower rates while simultaneously providing more job security and better wages for their employees than for profit utilities. Japan has 24 automobile plants in the USA, the USA has zero automobile plants in Japan. This represents a gift to Japan from Reagan, which netted him millions of dollars after he left office. Stupidity based on free market assumptions, which transfers enormous wealth to Japan.

#41 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-13 06:53 AM

"The purpose of Hitler's wars was to capture resources for German Corporations, including the most brutal forms of slavery. This is EXACTLY what the USA is doing for US Corporations domestically and globally. Its the purpose for killing Obamacare. Its the purpose of the Republican tax plan."

That's not really true, for several reasons. First, corporations were strictly controlled by the National Socialist government, which really just viewed itself as an extension of Aryan society. Second, those corporations were not profit drive (that was limited by government), but rather as a tool to fulfill the aspirations of Hitler and the 3d Reich.

"There were no blacks in Germany during WWII, so your point that Hitler was not racist has no merit."

There were blacks in Germany, between 20-25K. There were German blacks who served in the Wehrmacht. They weren't generally disliked by Germans writ large, but were still treated as second class citizens...even if Germany didn't have an official segregationist policy regards blacks, like the US did.

"Free Markets are a reasonable model for most consumer products, but big fish eat little fish. Anybody that has ever played Monopoly should have learned this."

Monopoly is not like the real world in that wealth is fixed within the game. There are no new properties or enterprises that could be established and promote new growth. If you're looking at Monopoly as an analogue for reality, you've already failed. Because the real-world economy couldn't be more different.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 08:32 AM

My original assertion was that under Fascism, the objectives of national Corporations and Government converge, at the cost of consideration of the best interests of the human beings that populate the country. Your first comment supports that assertion. Your second assertion that German Corporations were not profit driven is absurd. The Nazis were collecting profits as fast as they could, from everywhere they could: art; gold fillings in dead bodies; the capture of Poland, France and other countries; slavery...

OK, Germany never instituted black slavery (just racist Jewish slavery), but they embarked on a vast eugenics breeding program, in which blacks were considered inferior.

The game of Monopoly is simpler than the global economy and our working lives, but it still makes the point that big fish eat little fish. Once you become a big fish you can and will slowly destroy your competition. There is much evidence of this in the current economic mergers which are running rampant. Millions means little any more. Soon we will see trillion dollar mergers. These events predominate in older well established industries. New technologies still emerge as smaller companies, but, if successful, will soon be swallowed by larger ones.

The American myth of free markets is contradicted by Japan and China and as such is self destructive.

#43 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-13 08:59 AM

"Your second assertion that German Corporations were not profit driven is absurd. The Nazis were collecting profits as fast as they could, from everywhere they could: art; gold fillings in dead bodies; the capture of Poland, France and other countries; slavery..."

National Socialism included many left-wing ideals...one of which was a limit to profit earned on capital. I believe it was 6%. The rest went to the government. So I guess it depends on how you do your accounting. When you say that the National Socialists were collecting profits, it's true, but it was collected as a 100% tax on all profits exceeding 6%.

"OK, Germany never instituted black slavery..."

Or institutionalized segregation. And while blacks were inferior to Aryans, they were still held in higher regard that Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 09:43 AM

Which is the convergence of a Corporate and Government agenda, which puts Corporate interests first and human life second. Nazis excepted, of course. Today its the 1% excepted of course. David Rockefeller who lived to be 102, was provided seven human hearts, contrary to organ donor ethics. We have achieved Hitler's dreams with the full support of an ingratiated EU. Others aren't so pleased with this outcome.

#45 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-13 10:20 AM

"National Socialism included many left-wing ideals...one of which was a limit to profit earned on capital." - #44 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 09:43 AM

That is NOT a "left-wing ideal."

#46 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-13 11:00 AM

"That is NOT a "left-wing ideal."

Really...you don't think that progressives would favor a limit on profits.

You've just played a small part in alleviating my distrust of progressives...that doesn't happen often.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 12:11 PM

"Really...you don't think that progressives would favor a limit on profits."

I've never heard any progressive call for a limit on profits. We do support taxes on those profits though. Got to pay the bills, and avoidance of taxes is what built the middle class. Prediction, the latest tax cut that the Republicans are trying to pass right now will actually destroy jobs. It's already been discussed that there is a bigger incentive to automate jobs in the bill than there is to hire workers.

#48 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-13 12:24 PM

I've read this story so many times in so many iterations that it's pretty much a rerun now. Nobody's speech has changed. People haven't all of a sudden started saying all kinds of slurs out in public or any differently than they did before. Nothing has changed. People don't sit around and wait for a President to do something so they can do it too.

It's a shame people have to sink so low as to make things up to try to prove a point. Sure, there are always stupid people who say stupid things but they have existed longer than I've been alive and probably much longer. Society hasn't changed. Politics haven't changed. Nothing has changed except a guy who has no filter gets in front of people and says some of the dumbest things ever from someone in his position. That's it. Don't degrade society more by making things up to prove a point.

#49 | Posted by humtake at 2017-12-13 12:48 PM

"I've never heard any progressive call for a limit on profits. We do support taxes on those profits though. Got to pay the bills, and avoidance of taxes is what built the middle class."

No Danni, war is what built the middle class.

The ability of low skilled or unskilled workers to earn high wages was basically an anomaly brought on by WWII. It's what happens when all of your competitors are destroyed. Otherwise, the middle class is created and maintained by government.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-12-13 08:14 PM

The ability of low skilled or unskilled workers to earn high wages was basically an anomaly brought on by WWII. It's what happens when all of your competitors are destroyed. Otherwise, the middle class is created and maintained by government.

#50 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2017-12-13 08:14 PM | FLAG:

And here's our own American Fascist, Madbomber arguing that the middle class is artificial so,'conveniently for his masters, we shouldn't make such a fuss about its disappearance.

#51 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-13 08:25 PM

I've read this story so many times in so many iterations that it's pretty much a rerun now. Nobody's speech has changed. People haven't all of a sudden started saying all kinds of slurs out in public or any differently than they did before. Nothing has changed. People don't sit around and wait for a President to do something so they can do it too.

#49 | Posted by humtake

The fish rots from the head. If young people see that the way to the top is being an ignorant arrogant -----, that's going to create a world with more ignorant arrogant ------.

You think the nazis and klansmen would have been inspired to march in charlottesville if trump hadn't just won?

After the --------- tape came out, my fiance was jogging and an audi full of young men passed by and they yelled "grab her by the -----!"

The success of trump means success for cruelty and ignorance in general.

#52 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-13 08:30 PM

Really...you don't think that progressives would favor a limit on profits.

You've just played a small part in alleviating my distrust of progressives...that doesn't happen often.

#47 | Posted by madbomber

So maybe you should ask where that distrust comes from, and change the channel.

Stop listening to the plutocrats that tell you progressives are commies out to come take your stuff. They're manipulating you to get you to defend their own corrupt interests. You're being had.

#53 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-13 08:32 PM

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