Last Thursday, after a photograph emerged of Senator Al Franken either groping or pretending to grope a sleeping woman, Leeann Tweeden, with whom he'd been traveling on a 2006 U.S.O. tour, I wrote that he should resign. Almost as soon as it was published I started having second thoughts. I spent all weekend feeling guilty that I'd called for the sacrifice of an otherwise decent man to make a political point.
Then I saw the news that a woman named Lindsay Menz accused Franken of grabbing her butt while they posed for a photo at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010, when he was a senator, and I read Franken's lame non-denial: "I feel badly that Ms. Menz came away from our interaction feeling disrespected."
Yet I am still not sure I made the right call.
It's possible that feminists, in trying to hold Democrats to standards that they wish were universal, risk unilateral disarmament.
"Interesting argument. I still think Franken needs to go. It just deeply pisses me off that Republicans don't hold their own members to same standards."
Are you kidding? He committed what was little more than a faux pas compared to the very real crimes committed by Republicans so we should give up sitting and voting members of the Senate or the House and leave US to the mercy of the Republicans? That would just be stupid. Total moral judgementalness focused on Democrats will just render the working class to serfdom. We are in a class war, we can't give up "soldiers" in the fight because they committed minor misdeeds, apologized and had their apologies accepted by the, so called, victims. Politicians and Presidents have virtually all had sexual encounters outside their marriages so we should give up minimum wage, Social Security, Medicare? No, we should not overreact to situations like this because I will God Damned guarantee you the Republicans won't. Their similary and worse offending members won't even apoligize but they will still be there in Congress voting to impoverish millions of women, men and children.
The official White House attitude towards such misdeeds is that those who admit them should be punished but those who deny them, whatever the evidence, have no consequences.
As I've said before, my bet is that Franken would gladly resign if Trump resigns first.
The cognitive dissonance is strong. Consider for a moment if Democrats had stuck with their principals in the 90s with Bill Clinton. Do you think that might have sent a message and we'd have saved many women a lot of pain for the last 20 years?
Consider for a moment if Democrats had stuck with their principals in the 90s with Bill Clinton. Do you think that might have sent a message and we'd have saved many women a lot of pain for the last 20 years?
#4 | Posted by visitor_
LOL riiiggghhht. The Dem's reaction to Clinton's sexual misconduct is the root of the problem.
"Do you think that might have sent a message and we'd have saved many women a lot of pain for the last 20 years?"
What's this "we" stuff?
You're not a Democrat; your politics are slightly to the right of Attila the Hun.
To sum up: The party that has women's rights under constant attack since Roe v Wade complains the other party didn't do enough to protect women.
Yeah, that's about par for the course these days. Just like it's also the Democrats fault for not protecting us from bankers when Clinton repealed Glass-Steagsll. But there was never any onus on the Republicans to reinstate it when they controlled Congress and the White House over the next few years.
Keep in mind, Visitor is NOT even attempting to argue that Republicans hold their candidates up to the same high standards that Democrats do. That is an important point not to be overlooked. Which again raises disturbing questions of unilateral disarmament. Especially when you have someone who is essentially a decent man and human being such as Al Franken being juxtaposed with the absolute pig Roy Moore.
"Keep in mind, Visitor is NOT even attempting to argue that Republicans hold their candidates up to the same high standards that Democrats do." Like you did with Bill and the way that Franken has been defended? That's not occupying the moral high ground.
That's not occupying the moral high ground.
#8 | Posted by visitor_ at 2017-11-21 04:10 PM | Reply
You don't care about the high ground. You care about Trump and Moore wriggling off of a hook. At this point in time, Franken has paid a much higher price than either, for doing much less.
You people are post-morality. You have no standards, but you will attempt to turn the standards of others against them if it gives you a bit more time to wallow in filth.
You know the most interesting thing about the Moore case? Redneck Alabama culture would have the man shot for what he's done if he were Black and/or not some frightening political hotshot. They've let him skate for decades out of cowardice and hypocrisy and you'd like him to skate for a few decades more. What a bunch of baboons.
Other than a weak apology I'm not aware that Franken has paid any price for sexually assaulting a sleeping woman and forcing his tongue down her throat.
Paraphrasing: I don't remember doing anything wrong, but I'm sorry you think I did. Well excuuuuuuuse me!
You care about Trump and Moore wriggling off of a hook. #9 | POSTED BY ZED
I don't. I hope Moore is sent packing.
I also see this as a perfect opportunity for Trump's accudors to band together and get their story out.
This is the moment in history when all the gropers and rapists get outed.
...and it deserves non-partisan support.
I am most irritated by the rampant claims of whataboutism for any deflection of criticism during Trump discussion, followed by immediate deflection during discussion of 'our allies' sexual misconduct. Discuss the problems with Franken in posts about Franken. Discuss the problems with Trump in posts about Trump (FSM knows there are enough of them). I guess the short version is 'stop being hypocrites (or covering for hypocrites).
#7 note how no one here is even attempting to argue that we hold all representatives to a nominal standard of respecting others. It's all our side and their side.
If someone is willing to alter their judgment on a person's actions based on the d or r after their name... You're basically just as bad as you're propagating the environment that will allow the next woman to be harassed.
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