Sunday, November 05, 2017

Mass Shooting at Texas Church

A County Commissioner in Texas says he's been told that more than 20 people were killed and more than 20 were wounded in an attack at a church, though he says those figures haven't been confirmed. Albert Gamez, a Wilson County commissioner, made the comments to cable news outlets after the attack Sunday at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, a small community 30 miles southeast of San Antonio.

Comments

FTA: "Local ABC affiliate KSAT 12 reported the gunman entered the church at around 11:30 local time and began shooting.

Police told the outlet there were "multiple victims" and the gunman had been killed in the aftermath. The number of casualties is not yet clear."

#1 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 02:34 PM

Also: www.cnn.com

#2 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 02:35 PM

Sutherland Springs is about 30 miles east of San Antonio.

#3 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 02:36 PM

Video: www.cnn.com

#4 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 02:44 PM

KSAT 12: www.ksat.com

#5 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 02:47 PM

"They are all actors pretending to be dead."

-- republican hero, and close personal friend of the president, Alex Jones

#6 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-05 03:14 PM

More than 20 killed

#7 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 03:15 PM

Condolences to the friends and family members of the departed.

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 03:18 PM

More mass shooter gun deaths. that exist almost exclusively in our country alone.

Horrible.

#9 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-11-05 03:34 PM

Do we deport Texans or Baptists, so confusing.

#10 | Posted by bored at 2017-11-05 03:37 PM

I just heard some idiot congressman on the TV machine say "I don't anticipate this being terrorism..."

I wish he would have said "The shooter was white, so there's no need to look at any new laws or anything."

#11 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-05 03:43 PM

25 dead reported

#12 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 03:46 PM

What the hell were those people thinking, not being heavily armed at church?

#13 | Posted by morris at 2017-11-05 03:51 PM

I heard some idiot congressman on the teevee say:

"I don't think this is going to end up being terrorism.."

I wish he would have said:

"It appears that the guy who did it is white.."

#14 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-05 04:02 PM

What a horrible way to meet G-d at church.

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-05 04:03 PM

Already posted: www.drudge.com

#16 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 04:04 PM

What the hell were those people thinking, not being heavily armed at church?

Odds are some of them were.

#17 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 04:12 PM

Two-year-old among the victims. www.kens5.com

#18 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 04:14 PM

Deadliest church shooting in American history. www.thedailybeast.com

#19 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 04:15 PM

Twenty-seven dead, 30+ injured. www.thesun.co.uk

#20 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-11-05 04:21 PM

Failure to compromise strikes again...

#21 | Posted by leadbelly at 2017-11-05 04:25 PM

Two-year-old among the victims. www.kens5.com

#18 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST

Like the parents of the Sandy Hook kids should have done, I hope this kid's parents make the pictures of the damage that was done to their child public.

It's the only way that any change will ever come.

#22 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-05 04:29 PM

Shooting up a church is just part of white privilege don't you know.

#23 | Posted by bored at 2017-11-05 04:31 PM

It's the only way that any change will ever come.

Change will never come. Sandy Hook proved that.

The only effect mass shootings have is to sell more guns.

#24 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 04:36 PM

So we can all agree that if he is white, it's not terrorism and he is obviously crazy. If he is anything else, it's terrorism and we need to deport everyone who doesn't look like us. Right?

#25 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-05 05:22 PM

More mass shooter gun deaths. that exist almost exclusively in our country alone.

Oh well. Nothing we can do.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 05:26 PM

So we can all agree that if he is white, it's not terrorism and he is obviously crazy. If he is anything else, it's terrorism and we need to deport everyone who doesn't look like us. Right?
#25 | Posted by Sycophant

Sorrt, Sycophant, now is not the time to talk about this.

#27 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 05:28 PM

Oh well. Nothing we can will do.

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 05:38 PM

#27 Truthhurts

It never is. But you can bet that if he wasn't white, we would be debating what to do about the terrorist issue in this country.

But it sounds like he is white, so thankfully we don't have to have a discussion about what to do about such things.

#29 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-05 05:42 PM

More guns making people safer in that hideous red State of Texas, where it isn't safe to be black unless you're on their football team.

#30 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-11-05 05:42 PM

and we need to deport everyone who doesn't look like us. Right?

#25 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Depends. What do YOU look like?

#31 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-11-05 05:43 PM

Failure to compromise strikes again...

#21 | Posted by leadbelly

No lea, another gun got away from it's owner and went on a rampage.

#32 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-11-05 05:43 PM

ABC News reporting white in his 20's

#33 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2017-11-05 05:46 PM

Shooting up a church is just part of white privilege don't you know.

#23 | Posted by bored

And all the murders in Chicago are just part of black privilege don't you know. You and minnie mouse have something in common, you both are ******* goofy.

#34 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-11-05 05:46 PM

Can we all be happy the shooter wasn't one of "those" people?

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 05:48 PM

I wonder if Al Sharpton or Jesse will go to the church to speak?

#36 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 05:50 PM

"Al Sharpton or Jesse"

Who cares.

#37 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 05:54 PM

You definitely don't.

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 05:55 PM

#31 WHATSLEFT

Tell me you didn't miss the incredible sarcasm in my post.

#39 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-05 06:02 PM

Is anyone feeling safer with Trump?
Me neither.

#40 | Posted by bored at 2017-11-05 06:06 PM

Nothing to be done. Americans murdered en masse by Americans is simply the cost of NRA political abuse.

Trump and Republican law makers wont care, there is no political hay to be made.

#41 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-11-05 06:14 PM

There's a lot to be done. But that would include fixing the culture. And that's too hard.

#42 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 06:20 PM

The shooting suspect has been identified as Devin Patrick Kelley, CBS News has learned from federal law enforcement sources.

Kelley is a former U.S. Air Force member who served from 2010 to 2014. He received a dishonorable discharge and was court martialed in May 2014, CBS News has learned.

#43 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-11-05 06:25 PM

www.cbsnews.com

#44 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-11-05 06:25 PM

Devin Patrick Kelley

Absolutely not a terrorist. Whew!

#45 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 06:27 PM

Devin Patrick Kelley, a former U.S. Air Force member who received a dishonorable discharge and was court martialed in May 2014.

He's the real victim.

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 06:33 PM

Let's thank God for all the "thoughts and prayers" GOP lawmakers will be sending, because they WON'T BE DOING ANYTHING ELSE.

#47 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-11-05 06:51 PM

I wonder if Al Sharpton or Jesse will go to the church to speak?
#36 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 05:50 PM

You sure as hell won't be offering to go.

#48 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-11-05 06:55 PM

Our lawmakers don't give a ----.

#49 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-11-05 07:03 PM

Notice that the POTUS tweeted the following:

"May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas," Trump tweeted.

Here's a novel idea......how about we ask God to be with everyone BEFORE another shooting rather than after?

#50 | Posted by rosemountbomber at 2017-11-05 07:11 PM

What the hell were those people thinking, not being heavily armed at church?
Odds are some of them were.

It's being reported, an armed bystander is who stopped the carnage.

#51 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 07:15 PM

It's being reported, an armed bystander is who stopped the carnage.

When seconds count, armed bystanders are minutes away.

#52 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 07:18 PM

Make sure to send thoughts and prayers because they are ------- useless.

#53 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-05 07:19 PM

I wonder if Trump will call this what it is....domestic terrorism. Nah ---- it, won't even get a mention since he is white and it doesn't fit his agenda.

#54 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-05 07:21 PM

Texas Church Shooter Was Antifa Member Who Vowed To Start Civil War

yournewswire.com

I don't know it this is legitimate or not

#55 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 07:35 PM

I wonder if Trump will call this what it is....domestic terrorism.

Gads no. Has to have a political motive to be called terrorism.

This will be a mental health issue, but not one that requires keeping guns away from crazy people.

#56 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 07:37 PM

Texas Church Shooter Was Antifa Member Who Vowed To Start Civil War
yournewswire.com
I don't know it this is legitimate or not
#55 | Posted by tontonmacoute

given the nature of the other links on that site I highly doubt it

#57 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 07:38 PM

#55 How could that possibly not be true?

#58 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-05 07:39 PM

From Tont's link

Bill And Hillary Clinton Owned Slaves In The 1980's
June 8, 2017

I mean clearly this site is credible.

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 07:40 PM

Devin Patrick Kelley has been identified as Sutherland Springs shooter:
- DSA/ANTIFA/Democrat
- Dishonorably Discharged from Air Force

Dishonorable discharges are prohibited by the Gun Control Act of 1968 from possessing firearms.

#60 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 07:41 PM

Dude, seriously do not believe that website. Get it from a credible source before spreading that bull

#61 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-11-05 07:44 PM

again I don't know if it's legit

So why are you posting it as frantically as you can?

Chill... the real talking points will be out in a half hour or so.

#65 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 07:56 PM

Bill And Hillary Clinton Owned Slaves In The 1980's
June 8, 2017
I mean clearly this site is credible.

#59 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

They did own slaves in the 1980's.
They were called Arkansans

#66 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 08:00 PM

Tonto appears to be a fan of politicizing gun massacres.

:

RIP to the victims and peace to the families.

#67 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-05 08:04 PM

So why are you posting it as frantically as you can?

#65 | POSTED BY REDIAL

I don't know take a look at #10,#23, #45, etc.

#68 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 08:04 PM

#63 | Posted by tontonmacoute

I don't know... I mean it could be true but then again this comes from a guy who uses a fascist dictator's death squad as his handle...

#69 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-11-05 08:10 PM

Any motive (other than the offensive -------- posted by Tonton) for the massacre?

#70 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-11-05 08:11 PM

From the BBC:

The suspect, described as a white male, wore a bulletproof vest and black combat gear. Police say that after leaving the church he was shot at by a local resident and dropped his assault rifle and fled the scene.

Oh holy ----... they said "assault rifle". Here we go...

#71 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 08:13 PM

#70 heard his mother in law attended that church. Other than that just a nut with a gun.

#72 | Posted by patron at 2017-11-05 08:14 PM

Please support Francois Duvalier Foundation® in order to promote positive aspects of the dictatorship, including the creation of most of Haiti's state institutions and increased access to education for the country's black majority.

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We Accept PayPal™

#73 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 08:20 PM

Any motive (other than the offensive -------- posted by Tonton) for the massacre?

#70 | POSTED BY MODER8

Offensive if true?

Why would one of theirs (you know people who aren't you) attack their own?

#74 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 08:23 PM

Tonto appears to be a fan of politicizing gun massacres.
:
RIP to the victims and peace to the families.
#67 | POSTED BY CORKY

I learned from the master, Charles (Chuck) Ellis Schumer.

#75 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 08:25 PM

Like it or not their must be a discussion in congress on what to do. I have a shotgun which I always felt was enough. I knows lots of people with all kinds of guns and thousands of rounds. They enjoy shooting at the range,I never understood it.But really is an assault type weapon even any use for hunting? At this point what can be done, this guy couldn't buy one legally and the market is already flooded with them.Not sure there is an answer.

#76 | Posted by patron at 2017-11-05 08:29 PM

Like it or not their must be a discussion in congress on what to do.

Won't happen

I have a shotgun which I always felt was enough.

Probably is.

I knows lots of people with all kinds of guns and thousands of rounds. They enjoy shooting at the range,I never understood it.

It's fun

But really is an assault type weapon even any use for hunting?

Doesn't matter... 2nd Amendment and all.

At this point what can be done

Nothing will be done.

this guy couldn't buy one legally

I'm sure he could, since he did.

Not sure there is an answer.

There isn't.

#77 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-11-05 08:49 PM

TONTONMACOUT

You sir are a disgusting human being.

#78 | Posted by memyselfini at 2017-11-05 09:07 PM

TONTONMACOUT
You sir are a disgusting human being.

#78 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Why?

#79 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 09:13 PM

Tonto appears to be a fan of politicizing gun massacres.
:
RIP to the victims and peace to the families.
#67 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-11-05 08:04 PM

Well, what do you know...

Barack Obama ✔@BarackObama
May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst.
7:51 PM - Nov 5, 2017

#80 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 09:19 PM

TONTONMACOUT
You sir are a disgusting human being.

#78 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

MEMYSELFINI may I introduce you to a...Mr Gonzalez?

Antonio E. Gonzalez‏
@ReFlex76
Follow Follow @ReFlex76
More
Sutherland Springs is in rural Texas, these were all likely 45 voters.

This is karma in action.

Good riddance.
2:29 PM - 5 Nov 2017

#81 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-11-05 09:25 PM

Barack Obama ✔@BarackObama
May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst.
7:51 PM - Nov 5, 2017

Any of you liberals going to jump on your messiah for making this politicized before the bodies are cold?

#83 | Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 09:32 PM

See what wacky antics ensue When The Second Amendment and Second Corinthians both show up at the same church on the same day!

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-05 09:50 PM

After a rough week, the Hillary camp needed a win, this is great news.

#85 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2017-11-05 10:00 PM

As in Las Vegas, the target defines the attack.

#87 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-05 10:19 PM

NBC News‏ @NBCNews

JUST IN: Texas church shooter was court-martialed in 2012 for assault on his spouse and their child and received a Bad Conduct Discharge

#88 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-05 10:23 PM

Another case of domestic terrorism brought to you by the NRA and the Republican Party. At least 25 the innocent people dead and many more wounded, I hope all of you NRA suppporters/member's/Nazi sympathizer's are proud.

#89 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-11-05 11:19 PM

Hours after horrific mass shooting, Texas attorney general urges more people to bring guns to church

thinkprogress.org

According to Paxton, the only way to prevent gun violence is for "good guys" with guns to intervene. But the "good guy with a gun" theory is not supported by evidence.

thinkprogress.org

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-05 11:28 PM

#83 Boaz

I will. Good job Obama.

#91 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-05 11:30 PM

" before the bodies are cold?"

They're cold in vegas. Nothing was done there. Your excuse sucks.

#92 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-11-05 11:36 PM

I wonder if anyone shot in the church was praying not to die in a mass shooting.

#93 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-11-05 11:40 PM

"There's a lot to be done. But that would include fixing the culture. And that's too hard.

#42 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-11-05 06:20 PM | REPLY"

Yeah, let's talk about the culture that values your playtime at the range with a new toy more than it values the life of a five year old.

Think about that, and get back to me about "fixing culture".

#94 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-11-05 11:44 PM

Barack Obama ✔@BarackObama
May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst.
7:51 PM - Nov 5, 2017

Any of you liberals going to jump on your messiah for making this politicized before the bodies are cold?

Posted by boaz at 2017-11-05 09:32 PM | Reply

Aren't you doing it right now with the post above???? Shame for shame Boaz.

#95 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-11-06 12:11 AM

My sincere condolences to the victims, and their friends and families, of this criminal.

But the "good guy with a gun" theory is not supported by evidence.

Depends on the nature and scope of the study. Human behavior (social science) is difficult to measure empirically. Change a factor and the result may change.

In any event, the National Academies in their 2013 survey of the literature was not as certain as Think Progess and Scientific American about defensive gun use.

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals ... A different issue is whether defensive uses of guns, however numerous or rare they may be, are effective in preventing injury to the gunwielding crime victim. Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was "used" by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies ... Effectiveness of defensive tactics, however, is likely to vary across types of victims, types of offenders, and circumstances of the crime, so further research is needed both to explore these contingencies and to confirm or discount earlier findings. www.nap.edu (pdf page #s 26-27)

#96 | Posted by et_al at 2017-11-06 12:40 AM

BTW, reporting indicates this tragedy was impacted by defensive gun use.

#97 | Posted by et_al at 2017-11-06 12:55 AM

#11, 23, 25, 35, 54

I see our resident dr racists have opined.

#98 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2017-11-06 01:04 AM

But really is an assault type weapon even any use for hunting?
#76 | POSTED BY PATRON

Unfortunately or fortunately however you look at it the 2nd admendment has nothing to do with hunting.

#99 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2017-11-06 01:06 AM

#76

Yes.

#99

Arguments otherwise notwithstanding, fortunately, it does.

#100 | Posted by et_al at 2017-11-06 01:20 AM

It looks like the shooter was a very angry atheist and the church was attended by his former mother-in-law.

Guns designed to kill large numbers of people really shouldn't be on the civilian Market.

#101 | Posted by Tor at 2017-11-06 02:05 AM

They have likely deleted it, but the NRA weighed in by letting everyone know the difference between a clip and a magazine.

#102 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 05:06 AM

I figured idiots who post here were the only ones concerned with such things after babies get splattered all over the place.

As it turns out the idiots here are dumber than we all thought they were and they didn't even think of that piss poor,,,, whatever the **** it is on their own.

#103 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 05:12 AM

"This American carnage stops now!"

- Donny Doll Hands 1/20/2017

#104 | Posted by 726 at 2017-11-06 07:08 AM

"Not sure there is an answer." #76

The answer is: More guns = less crime.

#105 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-06 07:29 AM

#105

In a country with roughly 300 million people and more than 1 gun per person how many is the magic number?

500 million guns?

600 million guns?

#106 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 07:43 AM

I figured idiots who post here were the only ones concerned with such things after babies get splattered all over the place. As it turns out the idiots here are dumber than we all thought.

#103 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood

Best self-retorting post of all time

#107 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-06 07:57 AM

There are a lot of questions that need asked about this shooting, but the one I expect to receive the least media scrutiny is this: how did someone with a BCD for spousal abuse purchase a weapon? Even if he dodged the language on the 4473 regarding dishonorable discharges, he was still convicted of domestic abuse, which precludes someone from legally purchasing a firearm under both federal and state law.

#108 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-11-06 08:01 AM

Best self-retorting post of all time

#107 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT

Right.

Give us a 30 post breakdown on the difference between a clip and a magazine for old times sake, water head.

Get a fellow mouth breather to help if you need it.

#109 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 08:45 AM

BTW, reporting indicates this tragedy was impacted by defensive gun use.

#97 | POSTED BY ET_AL

"Impacted"

Only 26 killed.

Only.

26.

Killed.

👉💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀👈

#110 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-11-06 09:16 AM

#106
It only took one gun to stop the carnage.

#111 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-06 09:21 AM

#106
It only took one PISTOL to stop the carnage.

#111 | POSTED BY ROAD_RUNNER

"Use the right terminology. It's the only way to stop the next one."

-- The mouth breathers in the NRA

#112 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 09:36 AM

The account I read said it was a rifle.

#113 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-06 10:07 AM

The account I read said it was a rifle.

#113 | POSTED BY ROAD_RUNNER

"Then why didn't you call it what it is? How are we going to prevent the next attack without the proper terminology"

-- The mouth breathers in the NRA

#114 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 10:19 AM

Some fake news saying this guy had an ANTIFA flag on his Facebook page, cut and paste job. BUT his voter's registration listed his party affiliation as UAF,(United Ageist Fascism). That was not fake. I guess he was butt hurt because November 4th was such a flop. Everywhere I looked the counter-protesters outnumbered the Antifa protesters.

#115 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 10:19 AM

#114 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood, What you do not consider is this guy got a BCD,(bad conduct discharge) which is never given without a felony conviction. The law, even in gun crazy Texas does not allow convicted felons to purchase or possess firearms of any type, mandatory sentencing are included. As the hyper villainous NRA proclaim regularly- enforce the laws already on the books. Waiting to see where he got his rifle, private sale? Stolen? Straw buyer? Bad guys can always get a gun. This guy was sure proud of his weapon, posted it on his Facebook page.

#116 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 12:23 PM

#106
It only took one gun to stop the carnage.

#111 | POSTED BY ROAD_RUNNER

Umm no. It took one gun to kill the guy AFTER the carnage. And it sounds like he may have been out of ammo.

#117 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 12:28 PM

Reminder:
‘No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
www.theonion.com

#118 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 12:31 PM

#117
If he was out of ammo, how did he kill himself, seppuku?

#119 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-06 12:39 PM

Was the Texas Church Shooter an Antifa Member Who Vowed to Start Civil War?

Reports that the perpetrator carried an Antifa flag and told churchgoers "this is a communist revolution" are fake news.

www.snopes.com

#120 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-06 12:42 PM

"enforce the laws already on the books."

A common refrain from the fans of small caliber rectal insertion.

You mean the ATF isn't enforcing laws already on the books?

Which laws, exactly?

Is the problem the ATF agents are incompetent morons, or that the laws are unenforceable, or what?

That's a lot to ask, so just tell me this: What standing law could have been enforced to stop this?

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-06 12:43 PM

#117
If he was out of ammo, how did he kill himself, seppuku?

#119 | POSTED BY ROAD_RUNNER

He dropped the rifle and ran, didn't he? Sounds like he used a handgun.

Oh and by the way, he was already done slaughtering everyone.

Guns didn't save people.

If MORE guns is the solution, why are we the only country this happens in almost (literally) daily where the countries that don't have many guns don't have this issue?

#122 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 12:44 PM

#118 | Posted by Sycophant I would rather deal with mass shootings than what happens when a population is disarmed. In the 20th century the number of innocent people murdered by their own government outnumber those killed in war. In every case- that population was disarmed.

#123 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 12:46 PM

#122 | Posted by Sycophant, actually these sort of attacks happen world wide. Mexico comes to mind. England has had them, Japan, Australia, and about every first world nation. Ban guns, and those with enough motivation will find the means to kill.

#124 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 12:52 PM

#119
He dropped the rifle and ran because someone was shooting at him.
The premise of your second question is incorrect.

#125 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-06 12:56 PM

#121 | Posted by snoofy Maybe the fact that he was a convicted felon who posted a picture of his weapon on Facebook?

#126 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 01:16 PM

All these mass shootings were committed with AR style firearms. The AR with high capacity mags have been available since the early 60's. What has changed in America that has turned citizens into mass murderers? The firearm has been available for over 50 years.

#127 | Posted by Daniel at 2017-11-06 01:16 PM

#122 | Posted by Sycophant, actually these sort of attacks happen world wide. Mexico comes to mind. England has had them, Japan, Australia, and about every first world nation. Ban guns, and those with enough motivation will find the means to kill.

#124 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

Not with the same frequency by any measure.

And that's the difference.

#128 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 01:31 PM

#118 | Posted by Sycophant I would rather deal with mass shootings than what happens when a population is disarmed. In the 20th century the number of innocent people murdered by their own government outnumber those killed in war. In every case- that population was disarmed.

#123 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

And not in a democratically elected country. And not in a federal system.

And no one is talking about disarming citizens. We're talking about limiting arms and limiting who can have them.

#129 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 01:33 PM

"In the 20th century the number of innocent people murdered by their own government outnumber those killed in war."

In the 21st century more American blacks are killed by our own government that are killed in our own government's wars.

Access to guns, it doesn't do what you're pretending it does.

Quit being such a fake.

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-06 01:36 PM

"Maybe the fact that he was a convicted felon who posted a picture of his weapon on Facebook?"

So what should law enforcement have done about it?

I guess, for starters, law enforcement needs to monitor every felon's Facebook page?

Please, continue this line of thinking until it results in the shooter being stopped somehow.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-11-06 01:54 PM

#130 | Posted by snoofy,"In the 21st century more American blacks are killed by our own government that are killed in our own government's wars". Source? That has to be one of the most stupid things you have ever posted, I have no ideal how you can actually believe that nonsense. If that is an honest appraisal in your perception, you need to see your doctor and get your meds increased. Over 700 black young men were murdered in Chicago last year, and I doubt the government was pulling the trigger on a single one.
#131 | Posted by snoofy, So you agree, gun laws do not deter bad actors from acquiring firearms. Actually it is the responsibility of law enforcement to keep tabs on felons. Do it once, you are apt to repeat. BTW, according to the Latenburg Amendment, being convicted of spousal abuse should have precluded him from acquiring a firearm. Gun laws are about as effective as restraining orders. Just about every woman I know who was murdered by an ex-boyfriend or ex-husband had one.

#132 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 02:46 PM

#130 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

this is no startling statistic. It has been known for some time now that more soldiers die from suicide than from the recent wars.

To me, these suicides are caused by exactly the same thing as the mass shootings. And it is not mental illness.

it's philosophical illness. Our country is corrupt, our government is corrupt, our people either become corrupt or they have to disengage and revert to some kind of mode that is not supported by reality. It's easy to think your non-reality reality is reality because you can see the opposing view is not reality.

#133 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-11-06 02:54 PM

#133 | Posted by kudzu, Nonsense, philosophy is a perception of reality or an explanation of reality. The basic cause of suicide among soldiers is hopelessness and despair. Deal with the VA for a while and see what could be the cause. Reality can be crushing. Promises broken can be disillusioning. Lies destroy trust. It will take a lot more time to reestablish people's confidence in our government than it took to undermine it.

#134 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 03:13 PM

So you agree, gun laws do not deter bad actors from acquiring firearms.
#132 | POSTED BY DOCNJO

Actually they do. Empirically proven.

#135 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-11-06 03:25 PM

#130 | Posted by snoofy, Actually the Fascist in Italy and Germany were elected. They were both Democracies. The Communist seized power during a civil war in Russia. The rest of the Warsaw pack governments were installed by force during and after WWII. Private ownership of firearms were prohibited in every one of these countries. Truth is the unarmed are subjects, the armed are citizens. Thomas Jefferson believed that.

#136 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 03:33 PM

#135 | Posted by Sycophant When and where? After England outlawed private gun ownership, gun crime did go down, and every other crime stat went up, especially home invasions and muggings. The murder rate stayed about the same. They still use guns to murder people in England, but they use bats and knives more often.

#137 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 03:58 PM

A "good guy with a gun" stopped a guy after he had slaughtered 27 people = a huge win for the good guy with a gun argument.

Congratulations, fellas.

#138 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 05:07 PM

#138 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood Bet the absence of armed guards in the congregation will be corrected rather quickly now. Most large congratulations in urban areas already have armed security. This isn't the first church attack.

#139 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-06 05:27 PM

Do the families care that it's not "terrorism"?

#140 | Posted by fresno500 at 2017-11-06 06:54 PM

#138 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood 27 people got slaughtered. My team beat your team again.

#139 | POSTED BY DOCNJO AT

Fixed.

#141 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 08:08 PM

#110 | Posted by donnerboy
Almost that many are killed by illegal aliens everyday.

#142 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-11-07 08:22 AM

"...a huge win for the good guy with a gun argument..."
#138 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-06 05:07 PM

Also a huge win for the 27 others he didn't get a chance to kill.

#143 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-07 09:36 AM

#143 | Posted by road_runner, I think the reality of what he did came crashing into his twisted mind. The screams of the children ringing in his ears,

#144 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-07 09:58 AM

Also a huge win for the 27 others he didn't get a chance to kill.

#143 | POSTED BY ROAD_RUNNER

Yap.

Except he was already leaving...

www.google.com

A local resident confronted the gunman as he left the church.

A man who lives next door to the church grabbed his own rifle and engaged the suspect, officials said. The gunman dropped his "Ruger AR assault-type rifle" and fled. The neighbor chased after the gunman, police said.

#145 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-07 10:15 AM

The truth is, sadly, the guy had run out of targets in the church. Everyone was ether dead or shot. There were about 50 to 60 people in attendance. It took him about 4 minutes.

#146 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-11-07 10:37 AM

Except he was already leaving...
#145 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-11-07 10:15 AM

...to look for more victims.

#147 | Posted by road_runner at 2017-11-07 11:48 AM

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