Monday, October 30, 2017

Manafort Indicted for Conspiracy Against U.S.

President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, and Manafort's longtime business associate Rick Gates will surrender today to federal authorities in Washington, D.C., according to sources with direct knowledge of the situation. The indictment contains 12 counts including conspiracy against the U.S., conspiracy to launder money, serving as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading Foreign Agents Registration Act statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts.

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More FTA:

Trump has adopted a tone of defiance in public. However, inside the White House, nearly all of Trump's top aides, and the president himself, have hired outside lawyers to represent them in the probe -- a sign of how serious the situation is for the West Wing.

This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.

#1 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:01 AM

Well, President Trump's former one-time campaign manager - who took the position without any compensation coming from the campaign whatsoever - is being arrested on as-yet unknown criminal charges.

It has begun.

#2 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-10-30 08:05 AM

www.nytimes.com

FTA:

Paul Manafort, President Trump's campaign chairman, at the Republican National Convention in July. Credit Sam Hodgson for The New York Times
WASHINGTON -- Paul Manafort and his former business associate Rick Gates were told to surrender to federal authorities Monday morning, the first charges in a special counsel investigation, according to a person involved in the case.

The charges against Mr. Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chairman, and Mr. Gates, a business associate of Mr. Manafort, were not immediately clear but represent a significant escalation in a special counsel investigation that has cast a shadow over the president's first year in office.

Mr. Gates is a longtime protégé and junior partner of Mr. Manafort. His name appears on documents linked to companies that Mr. Manafort's firm set up in Cyprus to receive payments from politicians and businesspeople in Eastern Europe, records reviewed by The New York Times show.

Mr. Manafort had been under investigation for violations of federal tax law, money laundering and whether he appropriately disclosed his foreign lobbying.

Attempts to reach Mr. Gates on Monday were not successful. A spokesman for Mr. Manafort did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

#3 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:05 AM

"DO SOMETHING!"

-- donnie dealbreaker

"Ok..."

-- Robert Mueller

#4 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:07 AM

Mmmmmmm those nothingburgers are tasty.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-30 08:12 AM

"Who is Paul Manafort???"

-- donnie dealbreaker

#6 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:17 AM

I thought Trump fired Manafort pretty early in the campaign. Maybe he isn't as stupid as y'all consider him.

#7 | Posted by docnjo at 2017-10-30 08:17 AM

Who is Paul Manafort???

#7 | POSTED BY DOCNJO AT

Fixed.

#8 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:19 AM

This appears to be tax evasion charges from 2012 and up. Not sure why that requires the FBI's involvement. There was a statue of limitations driving the timing. Not directly related to the campaign. But, this is likely the tip of an iceberg.

#9 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-30 08:28 AM

"I thought Trump fired Manafort pretty early in the campaign. Maybe he isn't as stupid as y'all consider him."

But he hired him in the first place so perhaps Trump is dumber than a rock.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 08:33 AM

Who knew that donnie dealmaker's campaign manager was involved in Uranium One???

That's the real scandal, right?

There have been 27 threads about it in the last 6 days or so.

#11 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 08:50 AM

If this doesn't prove how guilty Hillary is, nothing will.

#12 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 08:51 AM

I thought Trump fired Manafort pretty early in the campaign.

He was his campaign manager for five months in 2016, all the way to August -- a month past the GOP National Convention and only three months before Election Day.

Does that sound "pretty early" to you?

#13 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 08:54 AM

guys, shouldn't we be focusing on how hillary clinton personally delivered 20% of american uranium to russia (she stiffed libya so she could build a time machine out of a delorean)?

#14 | Posted by klifferd at 2017-10-30 08:57 AM

DOCNJO

"I thought Trump fired Manafort pretty early in the campaign. Maybe he isn't as stupid as y'all consider him."

No, he's every bit as stupid as we think he is . . . and a lot more.

Now it's coming back to bite him in the butt. And yours too, apparently.

Tell us, DOCNJO, is it lonely out there on the end of the pier?

#16 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 09:03 AM

screw this goose chase news filler story.

the headline should be THE DON EXCEPTS CIA BRIBE AND DOES NoT RELEASE JFK DOCS.

#17 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2017-10-30 09:05 AM

"guys, shouldn't we be focusing on how hillary clinton personally delivered 20% of american uranium to russia (she stiffed libya so she could build a time machine out of a delorean)?"

Who owned that uranium? Hint. Not the USA. Secondly, is this weapons grade uranium? This is only a big deal as a Republican deflection, it's not really major news regardless of how hard right wing talkers try to pretend it is.

And Tonton, sorry but Donny is dumber than a rock and proves it every day. You look up to him, gee, what does that say about you?

#18 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 09:06 AM

The Trump stank increases. How much longer do we have to pretend that this embarrassment of a person(?) represents America? How much longer is the GOP going to allow this sideshow clown to drag them down?

#19 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 09:06 AM

I wonder if Fox News is covering this at all???

#20 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2017-10-30 09:08 AM

I bet they are talking about Uranium One this morning, #20.

#21 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 09:10 AM

"When you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?"

"Like, don't hit their head [...] don't hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?"

#22 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2017-10-30 09:14 AM

Fox News' leading story ....

'And now for our latest updates on Benghazi, Uranium, and Bill Clinton's BJs ....'

'Later we will go to Blowgord, Tennessee, where a good, white, American will tell us how liberals ruined his Hitler appreciation party.'

#23 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 09:18 AM

"When you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?"
"Like, don't hit their head [...] don't hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?"

#22 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS AT 2017-10-30 09:14 AM | FLAG:

Ouch!

#24 | Posted by cbob at 2017-10-30 09:24 AM

"Yes Danni that's very..Wow is Kelly Clarkson fat or what?!...anyhow very pointed response."

Something named Tontonmacoute doesn't have any position to judge anyone about anything. Despicable. I don't care about your opinion about anything. I don't plonk you only because you aren't worth plonking. I don't like some right wingers but they are still human beings, you are not. Your name tells us what you are. I have only contempt for you. Conservatives, if they realized what your name indicates, would despise as much as I do.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 09:27 AM

Paul Manafort is being charged for laundering money from the Uranium One deal toward the Islamic terrorists in Benghazi all on the orders of Hillary Clinton and the deleted emails prove it!

#26 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 09:39 AM

"You sure do hate a lot of people. It's a beautiful Monday morning here. Smell the roses and coffee. Life is good."

I don't hate many people, I do though hate people who think tontonmacoute is an acceptable identity. Sorry, I have limits to my tolerance, do you even know what that term refers to?

#29 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 09:44 AM

#28 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

yes, it's best not to acknowledge reality if it's too heavy ... or if you makes your previous position seem ill-advised and wrong.

just deny, deny, deny. Your ego will thank you for not admitting it is anything less than perfect.

#30 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 09:49 AM

"So we shall see"

Are you familiar with Roy Cohn? Do you know this is directly from his playbook? When accused, deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender.

Shorthand: DARVO.

#31 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-30 09:51 AM

Meanwhile, on Fox and Friends...

#32 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 09:51 AM

"Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to really help get this [Trump] campaign to where it is right now."

Sincerely
Newt Gingrich and Sean Hannity

#33 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-30 09:54 AM

"So now you hate people based on what handles they choose? Does someone piss in your breakfast cereal 7 days a week?"

Do you know what tontonmacoute refers to? But hey, it it's ok with you then fine, I actually thought you were better than that.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 10:01 AM

Poo, I was hoping for trump himself to be the one put in custody.

#36 | Posted by Tor at 2017-10-30 10:06 AM

A profile on Gates, his connections to Manafort and to the Trump campaign and beyond, written in June, 2017:

How the Russia Investigation Entangled a Manafort Protégé

Mr. Gates was soon established in Mr. Trump's circle. Before the first presidential debate, he glad-handed with Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump's top security adviser -- now also a subject of the federal investigations -- and Sheldon Adelson, the billionaire casino mogul. At an election night party, Mr. Gates hit it off with Thomas J. Barrack Jr., the wealthy Los Angeles investor, who hired Mr. Gates to help run Mr. Trump's inaugural.

After Mr. Trump was sworn in, Mr. Gates joined Mr. Parscale and other Trump aides to raise $25 million for a new pro-Trump group, America First Policies. Mr. Gates lined up office space adjacent to the Willard Hotel, a Washington power-breakfast spot, and became a frequent visitor to the White House, hoping to join the new Trump era elite.

But his work in Ukraine cast a long shadow. Amid the Russia investigations, reports on Mr. Manafort's work for Mr. Deripaska rattled colleagues at America First Policies. Mr. Gates was let go.

www.nytimes.com

#37 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:11 AM

Manafort indicted?

Is anyone surprised by this?

#38 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-30 10:13 AM

"Is anyone surprised by this?"

The guy tweeting "FAKE" sure pretends to be.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-30 10:13 AM

Holy S#!t, he's prison bound, that's some serious charges. How many more are going to fall?

#40 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-30 10:18 AM

Conspiracy against the US.... Nice.

#41 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 10:22 AM

Trump did promise to drain the swamp.

We have captured the first swamp creature!

The creature from the Black Sea lagoon.

#42 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 10:22 AM

Is anyone surprised by this?

"Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to really help get this [Trump] campaign to where it is right now"

august 19th, 2017

#43 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-30 10:23 AM

"Robert Mueller is a superb choice"

Newt Gingrich

May, 2017

#44 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-30 10:26 AM

Friday:

Hillary did it!!!

Monday:

Manafort indicted?

Is anyone surprised by this?

#38 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT

#45 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 10:28 AM

Cheeto in Chief just tweeted, claiming 2016 was "years before" his campaign.

#46 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 10:29 AM

Holy S#!t, he's prison bound, that's some serious charges. How many more are going to fall?

#40 | POSTED BY BAYVIKING

the better question is, how long will it be before they start giving evidence against Trump, to save their own ass?

this is why Trump is crying, 'do something'. He knows that he is about to take a fall.

#47 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 10:30 AM

"Manafort indicted?
Is anyone surprised by this?"

That a buddy of Yanukovytch is a criminal? Why would anyone be surprised?

#48 | Posted by danni at 2017-10-30 10:30 AM

Can we please talk about Crooked Hillary and what didn't happen in 2009? Somebody do something!

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 10:32 AM

George Papadopolous just pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about the Russia probe.







TERRIBLE example for little Webster, there.

#50 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 10:34 AM

Go to Justice dot gov website and actually read the official indictment! Manafort is being charged for his money laundering while working for The Podesta Group! They even talk about Russian collusion, Ukraine interference under the Obama administration! Mueller is going after Tony Podesta next.

#51 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 10:36 AM

George Papadopolous just pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about the Russia probe.

TERRIBLE example for little Webster, there.

#50 | POSTED BY REVDARKO AT

I just made a thread about this.

It's bigger than the Manafort story.

He's going to flip.

Write it down.

#52 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 10:37 AM

Cheeto in Chief just tweeted, claiming 2016 was "years before" his campaign.

#46 | POSTED BY REVDARKO

he meant to say 1916.

#53 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 10:37 AM

Lock'em up!! #OrangeIsTheNewBlack

#54 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-30 10:38 AM

"George Papadopolous just pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about the Russia probe."

Guilty of collusion with Russians to get dirt on Hillary.

#55 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 10:38 AM

Go to Justice dot gov website and actually read the official indictment! Manafort is being charged for his money laundering while working for The Podesta Group! They even talk about Russian collusion, Ukraine interference under the Obama administration! Mueller is going after Tony Podesta next.
#51 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

Oh my god, you are adorable...and illiterate.

#56 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 10:38 AM

Friday:
Hillary did it!!!

Clinton is being brought into this through John Podesta's brother, Tony, and this is why Tony Podesta is being looked into by Mueller as well:

"Specifically, both Podesta's and Manafort's firms represented a Ukrainian nonprofit group -- the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine -- between 2012 and 2014. This group was attempting to improve the image of the Ukrainian regime at the time, which was pro-Russian and under scrutiny for its treatment of their domestic opposition."

www.vox.com

Manafort had organized a public relations campaign for a non-profit called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine (ECMU). Podesta's company was one of many firms that worked on the campaign, which promoted Ukraine's image in the West.

The sources said the investigation into Podesta and his company began as more of a fact-finding mission about the ECMU and Manafort's role in the campaign, but has now morphed into a criminal inquiry into whether the firm violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act, known as FARA.

www.nbcnews.com

#57 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:42 AM

Tad Devine also worked for the pro-Russian president that Manafort worked for (you will notice he is quoted in the NYT article I linked to on Gates):

Internationally, Devine has worked as a strategist and media consultant for the winning campaigns of ... Ukrainian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich and the Party of Regions in 2006. He worked again with Yanukovich in 2009 and 2010 for his successful Presidential bid.

en.wikipedia.org

The difference with Devine is:

"He worked with Paul Manafort on Viktor Yanukovych's 2010 presidential campaign, but backed away after the election, when Yanukovych began clamping down on dissent. "

www.politico.com

IOW, he stopped working for pro-Russian Ukrainians a few years back, and there is no indication Mueller is looking into him.

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:43 AM

Can they offer a deal for him to snitch on Trump, assuming he can provide something decent?

I can't imagine anyone turning that down given that Trump would sell out anyone for even five minutes off a sentence....

#59 | Posted by Sully at 2017-10-30 10:44 AM

"Manafort is being charged for his money laundering while working for The Podesta Group! They even talk about Russian collusion, Ukraine interference under the Obama administration! Mueller is going after Tony Podesta next."

Tony Podesta could well be next, but the Podesta group didn't work Manafort (from link in #57):

"Manafort had organized a public relations campaign for a non-profit called the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine (ECMU). Podesta's company was one of many firms that worked on the campaign, which promoted Ukraine's image in the West."

Right not Tony Podesta is being investigated for FARA violations (as is Flynn, for that matter).

#60 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:49 AM

Is anyone surprised by this?

Trumpers and some other Republicans have been claiming for months the Russia investigation was a hoax/nothingburger/fake news.

Either those people are surprised this morning, or they were lying when they said they thought was nothing to the scandal.

So which is it?

#61 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 10:49 AM

#59 Not if Manafort and others assume Trump can and will pardon them.

#62 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:50 AM

#WINNING!

#63 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 10:50 AM

I can't imagine anyone turning that down given that Trump would sell out anyone for even five minutes off a sentence....

#59 | POSTED BY SULLY

By pleading guilty doesn't that usually mean that a deal is in the works?

Someone better DO SOMETHING! before he spills the beans.

#64 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 10:55 AM

@danabrams @danabrams

George papadopolous pleading should be more concerning to Trump team than Manafort indictment. It almost certainly means he is cooperating.

Papadopolous plea agreement that should concern Trump camp.
www.justice.gov
7:43 AM - 30 Oct 2017

Peter Baker (@peterbakernyt)

While Trump dismisses Manafort indictment as unrelated to campaign, Papadopoulos plea goes directly to collusion.

#65 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:56 AM

Either those people are surprised this morning, or they were lying when they said they thought was nothing to the scandal.

It's not a lie. It's an alternate reality.

#66 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 10:59 AM

So which is it?

#61 | POSTED BY RCADE

either way, it goes deeper into a dark corner, wherein they don't want to look.

No one wants to admit, #1) that they've been hoodwinked, or #2) that they are too dumb to discern the truth.

Both indicate a lack of intellect on their part, and a certain pride and arrogance in that lacking.

IOW, no matter what happens, the insecure ego will not admit any personal flaws. It's irrelevant whether they do it knowingly or not. The result is the same.

#67 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:01 AM

No one can say there was "no collusion" anymore.

A campaign aide just confessed to it..

#68 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 11:02 AM

Preet Bharara (@PreetBharara)

Special Counsel Mueller appears to have a cooperating witness, George Papadopoulos. That is significant. Time will tell how significant.

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 11:03 AM

It's not a lie. It's an alternate reality.

#66 | POSTED BY REVDARKO

IOW, a religion.

#70 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:03 AM

Apparently, Papadopolous lied about meeting with someone with ties to the Russian government about dirt on Hillary.

Wow.

Today is just brilliant for things coming to light.

#71 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 11:04 AM

Go to Justice dot gov website and actually read the official indictment! Manafort is being charged for his money laundering while working for The Podesta Group! They even talk about Russian collusion, Ukraine interference under the Obama administration! Mueller is going after Tony Podesta next.
#51 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

Unless you're full of crap, link it.

#72 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-10-30 11:05 AM

Former Trump campaign adviser pleads guilty to lying to FBI

www.msn.com

#73 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 11:07 AM

Over on Faux News they are blaming the FBI for not warning Trump.
Trump is apparently just an innocent victim. Someone do something!

#74 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 11:08 AM

Former Trump campaign adviser pleads guilty to lying to FBI
www.msn.com

#73 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Damn. Why is it Republican White House staff always have some many criminal charges and Democrats simply don't?

#75 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 11:10 AM

No one can say there was "no collusion" anymore.
A campaign aide just confessed to it..

#68 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

Well except for Trump. He can say anything he wants. And usually does. If if he just said the exact opposite thing yesterday.

#76 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 11:11 AM

Damn. Why is it Republican White House staff always have some many criminal charges and Democrats simply don't?

#75 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think Reagan still holds the record for the number of criminals in his administration.

Never forget that the GOP still ignores this fact.

#78 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:19 AM

If you're only here to troll and deflect, ---- off. You're wasting your time posting comments. The story is about Manafort, Gates, Papadopoulos and Trump. It's not Hillary BS or whatever other lies Fox News is peddling this morning.

#79 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 11:21 AM

So, Trump does hire only the best people.

These guys will be turning state's evidence as soon as they are sure Trump isn't going to fire Mueller or pardon them.... which ought to be right about now.

#81 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 11:27 AM

#80 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Deflections do have their value. You can tell how significant a topic is by the number of attempted deflections. When someone cannot address the topic or counter the facts but can only deflect you know immediately that you are onto something Bigly.

#82 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 11:31 AM

These guys will be turning state's evidence as soon as they are sure Trump isn't going to fire Mueller or pardon them.... which ought to be right about now.

#81 | POSTED BY CORKY

There will be no uprising from the Trumpians, no matter what happens. They will not be concerned about Mueller being fired. They will not be concerned if the criminals are pardoned.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the only way anything will change is if the 'establishment GOP' takes a legislative stand against Trump. I don't see that happening, do you?

#83 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:34 AM

This is the tip of the iceberg. We will soon see if the Trump Administration has a better steering system than the Titanic did.

On a separate note, I think this politically makes the likelihood of the Trump Budget/tax plan being approved far less. In politics, everything is connected.

I almost get the feeling that everything in DC is going to be de facto put on hold until this all sorts out. That may not be until after next year's elections. Not to overstate it, but while all the legislative aspects of Trump's administration may not be 'dead', they will be in a coma.

#84 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 11:40 AM

- I don't see that happening, do you?

Depends on how bad the stench around Trump gets. Most of them have other voters than Trump's base to worry about if they want to keep their jobs, and all of them have the loyalty of a Jessica Rabbit in heat.

#85 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 11:40 AM

Oh, and ---- Manafort. Talk about a corrupt smarmy son of a bitch who belongs in prison.

#86 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 11:41 AM

#9

If Manafort under-reported his income by more than 25%, that's tax fraud, which has no statute of limitations.

#87 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-30 11:42 AM

#83 - KUDZU

Mueller will never be fired unless he does something grossly over the line.

#88 | Posted by gavaster at 2017-10-30 11:42 AM

#83 - KUDZU
Mueller will never be fired unless he does something grossly over the line.

#88 | POSTED BY GAVASTER

He made Trump unhappy. That's all it takes.

#89 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 11:43 AM

#84

He's been a lame duck since McConnell did away with the fillibuster.

That's a hell of a thing, isn't it?

If they hadn't changed the rules of the Senate and used executive orders --- that they screamed should be illegal for the previous 8 years --- absolutely nothing would have happened.

Are you guys tired of all of the winning yet?

#90 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 11:43 AM

This is the tip of the iceberg. We will soon see if the Trump Administration has a better steering system than the Titanic did.

#84 | POSTED BY MODER8

They already hit the iceberg. Now we are talking about who gets the lifeboats.

#91 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 11:44 AM

Wow, this Statement of the Offense for Papadopolous shows that the attempts at collusion started in March, 2016:

assets.documentcloud.org

#92 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 11:45 AM

#25 | Posted by danni

Looks like someone's posts were eradicated. But Seriously - who thinks that is a good user handle? As if people here wouldn't recognize it.

#93 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 11:46 AM

I see that Trump has already tweeted that this is all Hillary's Fault.

I guess the buck stops in New York somewhere.

#94 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 11:47 AM

#92 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT

Ole George better watch it. His coffee may end up tasting extra polonium-y tomorrow morning...

#95 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 11:48 AM

On a separate note, I think this politically makes the likelihood of the Trump Budget/tax plan being approved far less.

#84 | POSTED BY MODER8

I would be willing to bet that this will have zero effect on that bill. The inner circle (who benefits from this bill) wants this to be passed.

#96 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:48 AM

On another note I was just in the break room here - they like to have Fox News on. Of course no Manafort coverage I forget exactly what was on but it wasn't anything important. I flipped it to CNN for them and of course it was Manafort coverage and then I walked out... I am thinking about locking out Fox News with the parental controls.

#97 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 11:50 AM

His coffee may end up tasting extra polonium-y tomorrow morning...

#95 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

now, that's funny. or sad. or true. or all three.

#98 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:50 AM

A report I read states Trump has spent most of the morning watching TV. lol. Can't make this ---- up.

#99 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 11:50 AM

A report I read states Trump has spent most of the morning watching TV. lol. Can't make this ---- up.

#99 | POSTED BY MODER8

Fox News is busy spinning this anyway they can for the President but its not going well...

#100 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 11:52 AM

#94;

It is a category 5 tweetstorm. I like this gem:

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump 1h | 1 hour ago

....Also, there is NO COLLUSION!

#101 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 11:52 AM

FAKE NEWS: Hillary Clinton declines to comment on Manafort indictments.

REAL AMERICA NEWS: Hillary Clinton pleads the 5th when questioned in the Mueller investigation.

She's in big trouble, LOL

#102 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-30 11:53 AM

#92 | POSTED BY GAL_

Soooo.... let's try to imagine that PAPA D did all that werk to arrange meetings between the campaign and the Russian gov all on his own, you know, like that wasn't his job description directly from Trump.

Nope, no one would buh-lieve that.... except for Trumpies.

#103 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 11:53 AM

#95 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood

I flagged it funny but in all seriousness, I would carry around a Geiger counter...

#104 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 11:53 AM

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump 1h | 1 hour ago

....Also, there is NO COLLUSION!

Little Donny Small Hands doesn't get that we switched from "collusion" to "conspiracy" a few months ago.

#105 | Posted by chuffy at 2017-10-30 11:54 AM

How long before Trump pardons him?

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 11:54 AM

where the hell are all the Trumpers? I miss their sanctimonious asides.

C'mon, Rcade, let 'em troll a little bit.

It's like the first time they had sex ... it's dark, they are scared ... and alone .....

#107 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 11:55 AM

How long before Trump pardons him?

#106 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

That would be an awful move. He can't plead the 5th then.

#108 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 11:56 AM

How long before Trump pardons him?

Trump can't pardon someone to stop an investigation into himself and his associates.

#109 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 11:57 AM

"People close to Mr. Manafort, including his former business partner Roger J. Stone Jr., have said he had nothing to offer that would help prosecutors build a case against Mr. Trump."

Hopefully Stone Jr will be indicted for being a complete dick, if nothing else.

#110 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 11:59 AM

Trump can't pardon someone to stop an investigation into himself and his associates.

#109 | POSTED BY RCADE

I'm not sure that's legally true. It's rather unsettled law if I recall.

#111 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 12:01 PM

How long before Trump pardons him?
#106 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS
That would be an awful move.

#108 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

you guys keep saying this, but i don't see it. Who is going to make firing mueller or pardons into an 'awful move'? I'm serious.

The voters? That's 3 years away. We can't wait that long.

The legal system? No, because the president has immunity.

Congress? No, it is controlled by the GOP, and even then, they have no power to remove him from office.

#112 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:02 PM

holy cow! full JFK document release!?!?!!?!?
pinch me! Is this real?
time to roll up your REAL JOURNALISTIC TALENTS!!!
screw this pizza pie Kleenex Manafort BS.
START DIGGING!
#REALJOURNALISMOPPORTUNITY

#113 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2017-10-30 12:04 PM

How long before Trump pardons him?
#106 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS
That would be an awful move.
#108 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
you guys keep saying this, but i don't see it. Who is going to make firing mueller or pardons into an 'awful move'? I'm serious.
The voters? That's 3 years away. We can't wait that long.
The legal system? No, because the president has immunity.
Congress? No, it is controlled by the GOP, and even then, they have no power to remove him from office.
#112 | POSTED BY KUDZU

If you hadn't deleted the rest of my post, you'd see why the Pardon at least is a bad idea. It removes the 5th Amendment possibility.

#114 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 12:04 PM

Trump: NO COLLUSION!

Georgie D: I plead guilty to lying about colluding with the Russians.

Trump and Rs: (crickets)

#115 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-30 12:04 PM

Even if all comes to pass as it looks, and even if the Democrats make huge gains in the mid-terms, and even gained control of buth houses, they still would not be able to remove trump from office.

#116 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:05 PM

These guys will be turning state's evidence as soon as they are sure Trump isn't going to fire Mueller or pardon them.... which ought to be right about now.
#81 | Posted by Corky

Trump would be signing his own impeachment papers if he did that. It might be worth it to watch him try.

#117 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 12:06 PM

#112 | Posted by kudzu

Actually it's only a year away. Midterms are next year - if he pardons these Russian tools R's are definitely in trouble. Then again there are a lot of truly dumb people out there that would still vote Republican.

#118 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 12:06 PM

It removes the 5th Amendment possibility.

#114 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

I doubt they want it. They want to make a deal.

#119 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:07 PM

Actually it's only a year away. Midterms are next year - if he pardons these Russian tools R's are definitely in trouble. Then again there are a lot of truly dumb people out there that would still vote Republican.

#118 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE

I agree completely. Mid-term elections are local elections, not national. This subject is too complex for trump voters to understand, even if they had a desire to do so.

#121 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:11 PM

KUDZU

They wouldn't have to. In Trump's mental state, he'll be rolled up in a ball and blubbering like a baby.

#122 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 12:13 PM

It removes the 5th Amendment possibility.
#114 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
I doubt they want it. They want to make a deal.
#119 | POSTED BY KUDZU

Manafort doesn't need to deal if he gets a pardon. But then he can't invoke the 5th. Manafort would likely prefer a pardon so he faces nothing at all.

#123 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 12:14 PM

You Libby progressives are making America less great again with your non stop emboldening of our enemies
Criticizing a sitting president is something we never do

Sincerely

Jeffjstangberlycentre

#124 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-30 12:22 PM

Manafort doesn't need to deal if he gets a pardon. But then he can't invoke the 5th. Manafort would likely prefer a pardon so he faces nothing at all.

#123 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

I'm having a hard time with your logic. I'm not saying you are wrong, and i will admit to a limited knowledge of legal matters.... Why would the 5th adm. protection be of any concern if he is pardoned? how can he be pardoned if he is not convicted of something?

Can a pre-emptive pardon be issued?

#125 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:23 PM

Manafort doesn't need to deal if he gets a pardon. But then he can't invoke the 5th. Manafort would likely prefer a pardon so he faces nothing at all.

#123 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

If Manafort gets a pardon impeachment better be on the table.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-30 12:24 PM

Big contrast between Papadopolous and Manafort/Gates. G.P. is cooperating with the investigation and will see little if any jail time. Manafort and Gates face serious charges that have the potential to send them to prison for decades. Message received, Mr. Mueller. It's long been suspected that the Mueller team is taking a similar approach on this as would be followed to take down a crime family/drug cartel. Today's reveals pretty much confirm that. Surprised Michael Flynn wasn't brought in today too. Perhaps he is cooperating?

#127 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2017-10-30 12:25 PM

Manafort doesn't need to deal if he gets a pardon. But then he can't invoke the 5th. Manafort would likely prefer a pardon so he faces nothing at all.
#123 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
I'm having a hard time with your logic. I'm not saying you are wrong, and i will admit to a limited knowledge of legal matters.... Why would the 5th adm. protection be of any concern if he is pardoned? how can he be pardoned if he is not convicted of something?
Can a pre-emptive pardon be issued?

#125 | POSTED BY KUDZU

Yes, a pre-emptive pardon can be issued. It would act like immunity. Then he can't plead the 5th because his testimony wouldn't subject him to criminal charges.

#128 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 12:27 PM

An interesting thing about Papadopoulos is that he was arrested on July 27, 2017 upon his "arrival at Dulles International Airport." After that, he met with government officials "on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions." But nobody knew until today, after the Manafort and Gates indictments were unsealed.

#129 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 12:29 PM

Here is how impeachment works....

The House of Representatives decides if there are grounds to consider impeaching a president through an inquiry, a debate, and then a vote, which should include all members of the house. If a majority find the President guilty on any charges, it will result in impeachment.

However, not a lot actually happens as the result of an initial impeachment. The offending Head of State retains office and can pretty much go about their business as usual until the second stage of the process, in which they will be either convicted or cleared at a trial established by the Senate.

In this trial, the President will be represented by lawyers; a select group of House members will serve as "prosecutors"; the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court will preside; and all 100 Senators will act as the jury.

If in the Senate a two-thirds majority find the president guilty, he will be convicted and removed from office.

#130 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:30 PM

this kind of senate trial has never removed a president from office.

#131 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:31 PM

There is one and only one explanation: Papadopoulos was a mole planted by the DNC in the Trump campaign!

#132 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 12:35 PM

#18
Klifferd is TontonMacoute?

#133 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-10-30 12:35 PM

oops, I meant DOCNJO.

#134 | Posted by ichiro at 2017-10-30 12:37 PM

#131 - KUDZU

Exactly. Although it's never happened before Trump would be the one to put the country through the process. His ego won't allow him to resign. That would be an admission of defeat. And he's doing so much winning....impeachment is just a crooked process used by the swamp dwellers to keep Trump from draining it.

#135 | Posted by gavaster at 2017-10-30 12:37 PM

I don't see pardons in anybody's future right now. Not only would Trump face (impeachable) obstruction of justice charges but without the protection of the 5th, the field is wide open for anybody to make a deal to throw Trump under the bus to save their own hide.

I doubt if we'll see any fireworks in that department until a member of his own family finds out they're the subject of a Grand Jury indictment and ordered to appear.


#136 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 12:38 PM

I am shocked about Popodopolous.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
www.eurweb.com

#137 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-10-30 12:40 PM

IDK that the pardon thing is so clear cut.

If Trump doesn't pardon, he is open to Manafort, etal, cooperating fully to reduce jail time. He has no control over the situation in that case.

If he DOES pardon, perhaps Manafort, etal will feel some obligation to minimize the revelations. Again, not necessarily able to steer or control but perhaps Trump will feel some control of the situation. Of course, communicating with Manafort, etal, will be difficult if not impossible without obstruction charges.

#138 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 12:44 PM

What impresses me the most is that G.P. has been signing since at least July and there haven't been any leaks. Mueller really does hire the best people. Mueller 2020.

#139 | Posted by bored at 2017-10-30 12:48 PM

singing.

#140 | Posted by bored at 2017-10-30 12:49 PM

I'm a little teapot,
Short and stout,
Here is my handle, (one hand on hip)
Here is my spout, (other arm out with elbow and wrist bent)
When I get all steamed up,
Hear me shout,
Tip me up and pour me out! (lean over toward spout)

Second verse:
I'm a clever teapot,
Yes, it's true,
Here's an example of what I can do,
I can turn my handle into a spout, (switch arms)
Tip me up and pour me out!

(I've just been thinking about the Trump White House this morning.)

#141 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 12:53 PM

There is one and only one explanation: Papadopoulos was a mole planted by the DNC in the Trump campaign!

#132 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Told you this was Hillary's fault.

---Trumpians----

#142 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-30 12:55 PM

What Manafort and Papadapalous have in common.... collusion.

"While Manafort was head of Trump's campaign, though, Russia took part in an extensive effort to get Trump elected that included hacking the Democratic National Committee.

Before that hack, Donald Trump Jr. arranged for Manafort and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner to meet with an attorney who was offering help directly from Russia.

(Trump Jr. famously responded to the offer of dirt on Clinton by saying, "[I]f it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer.")

Manafort resigned from the campaign in mid-August 2016 after news reports about Manafort's alleged lobbying efforts and his attempts to conceal them."

www.slate.com

#143 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 12:56 PM

Trump's self destructive back-monkey is quivering with pleasure today.

#144 | Posted by grumpy_too at 2017-10-30 12:58 PM

TRUTH

That's where Trump's unpredictability comes back to bite him in the butt. Will he, or won't he. Manafort can't be sure.

Manafort will most certainly be released on bail. He and Trump will have to meet in an underground parking garage and plot out their strategy.

But even then, how can Manafort be sure. Trump is famous for saying one thing and doing another. In other words, LYING!

#145 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 01:04 PM

Manafort going down is not a surprise, and since the transactions at issue were years before the campaign, standing alone would have peripheral impact on Trump himself. Papadapalous on the other hand (and Gates to a lesser extent) poses a real problem, especially if he testifies as to contacts to senior campaign people other than Manafort or Gates. If he testifies that he spoke with Don Jr., then all bets are off.

#146 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 01:05 PM

Their personality profiles say they'll turn on each other.

#147 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 01:06 PM

#145

Twin, Trumps' lawyers and Manafort's lawyers have been talking non-stop since last week, any strategy that they have will have already been ironed out.

#148 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 01:07 PM

It was reported a couple of times that Manafort tried to make a deal months ago and the investigators said no thank you to whatever he was offering. That means #1, they have him dead to rights (which seems pretty obvious) #2 he either couldn't/wouldn't deliver the real target they are after above him and/or #3 they don't need him to get to their real target.

#149 | Posted by leadbelly at 2017-10-30 01:10 PM

"Manafort going down is not a surprise, and since the transactions at issue were years before the campaign, standing alone would have peripheral impact on Trump himself. "

See count 1: from 2006 to 2017, "together with others" "conspired to defraud the United States"

www.justice.gov

So, not years ago, and we don't know who the "others" are.

#150 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 01:12 PM

I'm sure that would be the logical thing to do, RIGHT, and I don't doubt it for a minute. That's how legal minds work.

But Trump doesn't have a good record of listening to his attorneys ... and then there's his deep seated paranoia.

He's more likely to take the advice of Kushner or Hannity and come up with some skullduggery.

#151 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 01:14 PM

"Papadapalous on the other hand (and Gates to a lesser extent) poses a real problem, especially if he testifies as to contacts to senior campaign people other than Manafort or Gates. If he testifies that he spoke with Don Jr., then all bets are off."

See footnote on page 8, re: other people in the campaign knowing about Papadapalous being in contact with Russians. Doesn't say who though.

assets.documentcloud.org

#152 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 01:15 PM

Based on his behavior track record - Trump knew that Russia was in on this (at least by July when he publicly called on Russia to hack the USA). The man has no filter or self control which makes him REALLY dumb. I am loving the fact there is an email trail and the first tool already rolled over at the least weeks ago and took a lesser charges guilty plea... Manfort himself seems pretty stupid. Taking those huge "loans" against the properties he did from the Cypress bank known for money laundering at the perfect time. I mean really - that was just plain dumb. Listening to them list all his screw ups just makes me shake my head. Such an amateur hour. Remember Trumps overpriced real estate deal down in Florida?

Time to whip up an order of those Nothing Burgers with a Humble pie desert for some of our regulars conspicuously absent from this thread.

#153 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 01:17 PM

#152 Also, notice the date the footnote refers to is June 1, 2016. Could shed new light on Don Jr's "If it's what you say I love it" email comment and on why Manafort and Kushner were also called into the meeting.

#154 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 01:22 PM

My phone alarm each morning reads the time, date, weather, and (if applicable) any big news. It was epic this morning to wake up to "... semi-cloudy with high of 75 and a low of 66 today. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been indicted for conspiracy against us." I don't know if it was crappy voice tech that made it say "us" instead of "U.S." but it felt right.

#155 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 01:22 PM

Any trumpers want to offer a believable explanation of how trump ended up with manafort, a putin operative, running his campaign?

He did it without any compensation, or any experience running campaigns.

How do you trumpers think trump ended up picking him for the job, above all other possible campaign managers with more experience?

Then after you answer that, tell me how you think trump ended up picking putin's favorite oil exec for secretary of state, and putin's favorite general as national security advisor.

Then tell me why you think trump has refused to enact the russian sanctions that the congress overwhelmingly passed months ago.

And try to do it all without deflecting to hillary clinton as you've been taught to obediently do.

#156 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:25 PM

If Manafort gets a pardon impeachment better be on the table.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ

Impeachment will never be on the table because they party you constantly defend thinks it's worth it to have a treasonous russian puppet or dangerous mental patient in charge of nuclear weapons, as long as they hand out tax cuts to the rich.

#157 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:29 PM

So...much...winning...

#158 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 01:29 PM

#156 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

All while having "Nothing to Do With Russia, Folks" even though Jr. said they "see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

#159 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 01:31 PM

#160 | Posted by wisgod

Please respond to #156. If you even can.

Saying this is no big deal only makes you look dumber than usual.

#161 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:33 PM

"together with others" "conspired to defraud the United States"

I saw that, hence my point about Papadapolous. Conspiracy allegations always include a common scheme and acts in furtherance, you don't have to continue to act while others do so you are implicated. However, this scheme to defraud the US only involves money received from Ukraine.

Having read the entire indictment, this is about four things: Money Laundering, Tax evasion, failure to register as a foreign agent and making false statements. The money allegations are from 2006-2014, the tax evasion are 2006-2014, the FARA violations are 2012 to 2014 and the false statements regarding FARA are in 2016. Conspicuously absent are any mentions of the Trump Campaign or any involvement by anyone in the campaign in these acts. Which is, as Gal correctly points out, where GP comes in.

I agree with Gal, in terms of what is most important to the impeach Trump movement, this is ultimately a sideshow and the real meat will be in the GP testimony.

#162 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 01:34 PM

Manafort going down is not a surprise, and since the transactions at issue were years before the campaign, standing alone would have peripheral impact on Trump himself. Papadapalous on the other hand (and Gates to a lesser extent) poses a real problem, especially if he testifies as to contacts to senior campaign people other than Manafort or Gates. If he testifies that he spoke with Don Jr., then all bets are off.

#146 | Posted by Rightocenter

I'm sorry but that's the wrong answer on the "transactions" being years before the campaign - it is true that many were indeed years before. However huge loans against properties worth a fraction of the loans were made during Manafort's Campaign tenure. This is a common form of money laundering as already explained...

NPR The Takeaway.
NBC - a couple weeks old but talks about a LOT of newly found transactions to the tune of 26 million more.

#164 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 01:36 PM

JEFF

"Don't you ever get splinters sitting on that fence?"

#165 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-30 01:36 PM

Jeff,

Don't forget, Schniederman is still preparing state RICO charges concurrent to the Mueller investigation. Any of the criminal acts that took place in NY (Trump tower) will be subject to NY charges which the president cannot Pardon. Mueller and Schiederman have been cooperating on the investigations and sharing information.

Manafort is first, because his charges are kind of a layup. Any plea-deal will almost certainly involve a felony elocution so that a baseline criminal act for obstruction charges against others. My understanding is that an underlying criminal act may not be required for obstruction to proceed, but it would be better if such an act were established in the record.

As to impeachment, Trump's racist outreach program over the last few months has been a strategic display to energize his base to primary challenge any potential R impeachment votes up for reelection. The entire White House culture war strategy of the fall has been about trying to impeachment-proof congress in the mid terms. If they succeed and impeachment has been grounded by a wingnut wave election overturning the establishment GOP

We may end up seeing in lieu of impeachment is a VA federal grand jury and NY State Grand Juries issuing true bills against a sitting president. It will then likely be up to the supreme court to determine if such a true bill can compel a criminal trial of the president rather than impeachment. Both Star (Clinton) and Jaworski(Nixon) prepared legal arguments in favor of indicting a sitting president as contingency for congress failing to impeach. It is not settled law, but convention.

Unfortunately, I have zero point zero percent confidence that this Supreme Court (with Gorsuch as swing vote) would uphold the indictments. But, the fallout of of the congress and supreme court protecting a president from and already handed down grand jury indictment might be too much stress for the system to take.

If I had to wager, I'd bet the outcome will be admission of Trump's dementia(no guilt) and 25th amendment removal for the sake of the republican party before anyone has to go on record against impeachment or god forbid stonewalling grand jury indictments.

#166 | Posted by leadbelly at 2017-10-30 01:37 PM

"New York Values."

#168 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2017-10-30 01:38 PM

Laura Ingram says innocent people cop a plea bargain with the FBI all the time

And we all know how honest she is

#169 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2017-10-30 01:40 PM

#160 | Posted by wisgod

You should write a book with Donald. "The art of the weak deflection."

#170 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2017-10-30 01:41 PM

#167 | Posted by wisgod

That's not what I said. I asked for any trump supporter to offer a possible explanation for trump's hiring of Manafort, Tillerson, and Flynn - all men held in favor by Putin.

And an explanation for why Trump is refusing to enact the russian sanctions the congress approved months ago.

Since you know there is no good explanation, you're decided to dodge the question. But I'll keep asking it.

#171 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:41 PM

Manafort doesn't need to deal if he gets a pardon. But then he can't invoke the 5th. Manafort would likely prefer a pardon so he faces nothing at all.
#123 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
If Manafort gets a pardon impeachment better be on the table.
#126 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Careful. You are going to get whiplash with a flip flop that hard.

#172 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 01:42 PM

Any trumpers want to offer a believable explanation of how trump ended up with manafort, a putin operative, running his campaign?
He did it without any compensation, or any experience running campaigns.
How do you trumpers think trump ended up picking him for the job, above all other possible campaign managers with more experience?
Then after you answer that, tell me how you think trump ended up picking putin's favorite oil exec for secretary of state, and putin's favorite general as national security advisor.
Then tell me why you think trump has refused to enact the russian sanctions that the congress overwhelmingly passed months ago.
And try to do it all without deflecting to hillary clinton as you've been taught to obediently do.
#156 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

The answer to all your questions is: Trump wanted (and still wants) to repair US-Russia relations botched during the Obama-Clinton reset.

Trumps problem is this: He chose the wrong people. As a political outsider, he obviously didn't have access to deep background on theses shady characters.
The Dem team did, knew of the possible funny-money links, and have slowly built a collusion narrative around Trump.

Manafort and Co.'s tax evasion is a long, long way from collusion, no matter how loud it's shouted on web political forums.

#173 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-30 01:42 PM

--Laura Ingram says innocent people cop a plea bargain with the FBI all the time

And we all know how honest she is"

She's a hottie.

#174 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 01:43 PM

There is no good explanation, Speak, which is hugely problematic for Trump. That being said, there needs to be more than circumstantial evidence or conjecture before Mueller is going to proffer charges against the sitting POTUS.

#175 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 01:43 PM

... the transactions at issue were years before the campaign ...

Not so fast. Some of Manafort's alleged criminal activities occurred during the campaign.

Even if that wasn't true, if Manafort was committing crimes as serious as conspiracy against the U.S. and Putin knew this, he'd have Manafort over a barrel. That's one of the easiest ways spies can convince someone to work with them. He could've been an active Russian asset.

#176 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 01:44 PM

The answer to all your questions is: Trump wanted (and still wants) to repair US-Russia relations botched during the Obama-Clinton reset.
#173 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Thank you. I needed a good laugh.

#178 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 01:48 PM

#177 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Ironic. RCade's post immediately above you shows exactly how you are wrong.

#180 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 01:49 PM

Thank you. I needed a good laugh.
#178 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
#179 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

You mean the hundreds of millions in loans from Russian banks? Or Trump Tower in Moscow? Or the Trump Dossier's likely embarrassing secrets about Trump? All so Putin could get a friendly president to do things like...oh I don't know...not impose sanctions ordered by Congress?

#181 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 01:50 PM

The answer to all your questions is: Trump wanted (and still wants) to repair US-Russia relations botched during the Obama-Clinton reset.

#173 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Hahaha that's good man! You should tell fox news that one!

Trump colluded because OBAMA MADE HIM!

#183 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:52 PM

Trumps problem is this: He chose the wrong people.

One of Trump's mentors was Roy freaking Cohn. He's been friends with Roger Stone for 30 years.

Stop making excuses for him. He would choose the wrong people whether he had one year's political experience or 50. Trump is a dishonest unethical sleaze who associates with people like himself.

#184 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 01:55 PM

Trumps problem is this: He chose the wrong people. As a political outsider, he obviously didn't have access to deep background on theses shady characters.
#173 | Posted by SheepleSchism

ANd that's the BEST possibility for trump - not collusion, just INCOMPETENCE.

Incompetence to the level that his whole organization could be rotten with russian operatives, and he didn't even know. And when he found out, he decided to just start lying to everyone and obstructing the investigations.

So which would you prefer? Corrupt or utterly incompetent?

Even if it is pure incompetence, should a president who can be so easily conned and manipulated by people be kept in office?

#186 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:58 PM

#182 | Posted by wisgod

The people looking stupid are the ones still saying nothing to see here.

They've been proven wrong every time.

#187 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 01:59 PM

Just a reminder that what could bring Trump down is obstruction of justice, and I don't think he can pardon himself for that:

Matthew Miller‏ @matthewamiller

The FBI interview where Papadopolous lied about his Russia contacts came on the same day, Jan. 27, Trump asked Comey for a loyalty pledge.
7:36 AM - 30 Oct 2017

#188 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:03 PM

Why would Trump first attempt to obstruct justice on the day Papadopolous was interviewed by the FBI if there wasn't something to the collusion charge?

#190 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:06 PM

Looks like right wingers are starting to come apart at the seams. Very entertaining. Get some popcorn. This is gonna be a loooooonnng show.

#192 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 02:06 PM

#191 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM AT

Except for the guy who has already plead guilty to colluding with Russians.

#194 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 02:09 PM

"Unfortunately, I have zero point zero percent confidence that this Supreme Court (with Gorsuch as swing vote) would uphold the indictments."

Gorsuch should have to recuse himself since he was appointed by Trump, and God only knows what kind of loyalty pledge Trump extracted from him before giving him the nod.

#195 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:10 PM

- Why would Trump first attempt to obstruct justice...
Link to obstruction indictment/citation necessary.

#193 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Wait, your line is that because there isn't an indictment, it hasn't happened? Really?

So what? Richard Nixon didn't commit obstruction because he wasn't immediately indicted?

Stop trolling.

#196 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 02:11 PM

--Gorsuch should have to recuse himself since he was appointed by Trump

All the Obama appointments should recuse themselves as well.

#197 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 02:13 PM

Sheeple: You can't claim there's no collusion any more. A Trump campaign aide has pleaded guilty to collusion.

So we know there was collusion. We just don't know whether Trump was part of it.

#198 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 02:13 PM

--Gorsuch should have to recuse himself since he was appointed by Trump
All the Obama appointments should recuse themselves as well.

#197 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Why? Because they were appointed by a Democrat? Makes sense only in your messed up brain.

#199 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 02:15 PM

You can't claim there's no collusion any more.

#198 | POSTED BY RCADE AT

He sure can, and he sure will.

Wait for it...

#200 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 02:15 PM

When Sheeple posts something particularly dishonest I am never quite sure whether it is because he is trolling or because he is stupid. Does he actually believe the nonsense he posts?

#201 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 02:27 PM

When Sheeple posts something particularly dishonest I am never quite sure whether it is because he is trolling or because he is stupid. Does he actually believe the nonsense he posts?

If a person is defending Trump, stupid is always a safe bet.

#202 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 02:28 PM

You mean the hundreds of millions in loans from Russian banks? Or Trump Tower in Moscow? Or the Trump Dossier's likely embarrassing secrets about Trump? All so Putin could get a friendly president to do things like...oh I don't know...not impose sanctions ordered by Congress?

#181 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2017-10-30 01:50 PM | FLAG:

Hundreds of millions in loans from Russian banks? Are you on that mindless kick again?

#203 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-10-30 02:28 PM

As seen on the internets:

MAGA = Manafort And Gates Arrested

#204 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:29 PM

When Sheeple posts something particularly dishonest I am never quite sure whether it is because he is trolling or because he is stupid. Does he actually believe the nonsense he posts?

#201 | Posted by moder8

HIllary scrambled his brain. He hates hillary so much because of bernie, that he's now on team trump.

Same as Nulli.

All these formerly liberal people are now repeating fox news talking points to defend trump, as if trump's crimes are going to make hillary president somehow.

#205 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 02:31 PM

So we know there was collusion. We just don't know whether Trump was part of it.

#198 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-10-30 02:13 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY

But you have said Trump colluded with Russia for the past year!! Now you don't actually know? Was it because there has been no evidence?

#206 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-10-30 02:31 PM

Here's another one:

MAGA = Many Are Getting Arrested

#207 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:31 PM

Hundreds of millions in loans from Russian banks? Are you on that mindless kick again?

#203 | Posted by fishpaw

Are you on the mindless kick where you give the benefit of the doubt to the first president in decades to refuse to release his tax returns?

#208 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 02:32 PM

Here's mine:

MAGA = Mueller Ain't Goofin' Around

#209 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:33 PM

Hundreds of millions in loans from Russian banks? Are you on that mindless kick again?
#203 | Posted by fishpaw

You know they bragged about this right? Like literally, Trump can't get loans in the US.

#210 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 02:34 PM

So we know there was collusion. We just don't know whether Trump was part of it.
#198 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-10-30 02:13 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY
But you have said Trump colluded with Russia for the past year!! Now you don't actually know? Was it because there has been no evidence?
#206 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

I don't think he ever said that.

#211 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 02:34 PM

"HIllary scrambled his brain. He hates hillary so much because of bernie, that he's now on team trump.
Same as Nulli. "

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Nulli was ever for Bernie.

#212 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:34 PM

I just heard that George Papadopoulos has been "cooperating" since July..............

#213 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 02:35 PM

#208 So since you did not see his tax returns you have assumed that Trump has received millions in (I'm assuming interest free) loans from Russia? First, what IRS form would that show up on, second, didn't you watch Rachael Maddow and third, how would you know what a tax return looks like?

#214 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-10-30 02:36 PM

"Are you on the mindless kick where you give the benefit of the doubt to the first president in decades to refuse to release his tax returns?"

Never trust tax "reform" to a guy who won't show you his taxes. Bad, bad idea.

#215 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:36 PM

#208 So since you did not see his tax returns you have assumed that Trump has received millions in (I'm assuming interest free) loans from Russia?

#214 | POSTED BY FISHPAW AT

thinkprogress.org

FTA:

"As we were setting off, I said, ‘Eric, who's funding? I know no banks  --  because of the recession, the Great Recession  --  have touched a golf course. You know, no one's funding any kind of golf construction. It's dead in the water the last four or five years.' And this is what he said. He said, ‘Well, we don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.' I said, ‘Really?' And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We've got some guys that really, really love golf, and they're really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.' Now that was three years ago, so it was pretty interesting."

#216 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 02:42 PM

Not so fast. Some of Manafort's alleged criminal activities occurred during the campaign.

According to the Indictment, the only things that happened during the campaign were the FARA violation and making false statements to investigators regarding the money and the FARA violation.

That is why the GP aspect of the investigation is where the Trump collusion thread now lies, unless Mueller can get Gates to roll on Manafort and Trump somehow.

#217 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 02:43 PM

Sean Hannity‏ @seanhannity

@newtgingrich: "Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to really help get this [Trump] campaign to where it is right now."
7:08 PM - 19 Aug 2016

Thanks for the tip, Sean!

#218 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:43 PM

#217 Don't forget about Flynn.

#219 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 02:44 PM

A Trump campaign aide has pleaded guilty to collusion.
#198 | POSTED BY RCADE

Technically this is not an accurate statement, a campaign aide has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI

#220 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2017-10-30 02:47 PM

#208 So since you did not see his tax returns you have assumed that Trump has received millions in (I'm assuming interest free) loans from Russia? First, what IRS form would that show up on, second, didn't you watch Rachael Maddow and third, how would you know what a tax return looks like?

#214 | Posted by fishpaw

No since NO ONE saw his tax returns, I'm assuming that he's hiding something in them, as is anyone else with a brain.

#221 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 02:49 PM

All these nothing burgers with indictment and guilty plea sauce. Thems good eatin.

#222 | Posted by 726 at 2017-10-30 02:49 PM

But you have said Trump colluded with Russia for the past year!

Hogwash. I never said Trump's involvement was certain. I regard it as likely but unproven.

My position has been that extremely suspicious information has been uncovered on the Trump campaign and Russia that shows the investigations by Mueller, the Senate and the House are justified.

Trump engaged in obstruction of justice when he fired Comey and told people it was to stop an investigation. He should have been removed from office for that.

#223 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 02:49 PM

#220 | POSTED BY TXLIBERTARIAN AT

You should read the charges against him

They are some emails discussed in there that are going to be pretty hard to explain.

Oh, and in case you hadn't heard, he has been a cooperating witness since July...

#226 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 02:52 PM

Technically this is not an accurate statement, a campaign aide has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI.

The acts he admitted in his plea are collusion, per the FBI:

"In truth and in fact, however, and as set forth above, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met the Professor for the first time on or about March 14, 2016, after defendant PAPADOPOULOS had already learned he would be a foreign policy advisor for the Campaign; the Professor showed interest in defendant PAPADOPOULOS only after learning of his role on the Campaign; and the Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS about the Russians possessing" dirt" on then-candidate Clinton in late April 2016, more than a month after defendant PAPADOPOULOS had joined the Campaign. ...

"On or about April 26, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met the Professor for breakfast at a London hotel. During this meeting, the Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that he had just returned from a trip to Moscow where he had met with high-level Russian government officials. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that on that trip he (the Professor) learned that the Russians had obtained 'dirt' on then-candidate Clinton. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS, as defendant PAPADOPOULOS later described to the FBI, that 'They [the Russians] have dirt on her'; 'the Russians had emails of Clinton'; 'they have thousands of emails.'"

www.cnn.com

Yes, he's charged with something else. That's how plea deals work.

But anyone here who claims there was no collusion has been proven wrong by this plea.

#227 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 02:54 PM

#217 Don't forget about Flynn.

I haven't, but as I have said multiple times, he is going down as well, probably on similar charges as Manafort, especially the FARA and false statement charges.

Flynn is obviously much closer to Trump from an evidentiary standpoint and if GP rolls on him, then that may be the hook to get to Trump. Flynn, however, as a former General, will be a much harder nut to crack than GP was.

#228 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 02:54 PM

You should read the charges against him

I did. It's a 12-point indictment and it's pretty damning.

His lawyer should be urging him to plea because if the evidence backs up the charges he's going to be in a world of hurt.

#229 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-30 02:55 PM

Hillary isn't POTUS. mmmmm...that's good.

#225 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Yeah better putin than hillary, right dum dum?

#230 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 02:55 PM

he's going to be in a world of hurt.

#229 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT

Nope. I don't think so.

There's a reason he's been cooperating since July.

#231 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 03:04 PM

Trump engaged in obstruction of justice when he fired Comey and told people it was to stop an investigation. He should have been removed from office for that.

That is the worst thing he could have done, and if the circumstantial evidence piles up that his inner circle knew, may be enough to bring articles of impeachment because then there is enough CE to prove that his stated reasons for firing Comey were farcical.

#232 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 03:07 PM

The timing of the release of GP's cooperation is interesting, as a Prosecutor you tend to release information like this to "prod" the next link in the chain to cooperate. It will be interesting to see who his immediate supervisor was and what happens with them.

#233 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 03:09 PM

Firm in Mueller indictment got RNC funds for work on Trump campaign

Read more here: www.miamiherald.com

#234 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 03:12 PM

#234

As I said earlier, this is where Gates is more problematic than Mueller for Trump, since he continued to provide services in winding up the Campaign after Mueller's departure. The campaign will probably say that is what these payments were for but will still have to deal with the fallout.

#235 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-10-30 03:15 PM

MAGA = Manafort And Gates Arrested

#204 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2017-10-30 02:29 PM | FLAG:

Good, but what if there are others?

#MAGA = Men Are Getting Arrested

#236 | Posted by cbob at 2017-10-30 03:30 PM

#236 We can't rule out the fairer sex, so how about:

MAGA = Many Are Getting Arrested

#237 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 03:36 PM

MAGA = Major ------ Going Away.

#238 | Posted by RevDarko at 2017-10-30 03:46 PM

Manafort And Gates Arrested MAGA

Mueller's Attorneys Going After Many Additional GOP Associates MAGA MAGA

Many A Great American Must Applaud Government's Admirable Mission Arresting GOP Apostates MAGA MAGA MAGA

#240 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 04:04 PM

Manafort and Gates will need Soap on a Rope

#241 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 04:08 PM

Oh ho ho it's MAGA. You know. Never believe it's not so. It's MAGA.

#242 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 04:23 PM

These Treasonous scum are the people your republican leadership pals around with.

The GOP has permanently lost the right to call themselves patriots.

#243 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-30 04:24 PM

Sheeple, Fishpaw, Nulli, and the other Trumpophiles are spinning rather nervously today.

#244 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-10-30 04:35 PM

Stop trolling.

#196 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

No no!

Let the them troll! This is getting very entertaining. Finally. Better than the House of Cards. Because it is real.

And very serious.

All those NothingBurger flippers are now eating a lot of NothingCrow.

#245 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 04:40 PM

Better than the House of Cards. Because it is real.

#245 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

House of Cards - Cancelled

#246 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-10-30 04:48 PM

Manafort should have laundered his money though the Clinton Foundation like everybody else.

#247 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-10-30 04:52 PM

Manafort should have laundered his money though the Clinton Foundation like everybody else.

#247 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

Man, you are truly truly desperate aren't you? It's actually getting pathetic to read.

#248 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 04:56 PM

#247

Oh, look, it's Tonto Cotton.

#249 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 04:58 PM

--House of Cards - Cancelled

Good riddance.

#250 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 04:58 PM

House of Cards was great for the first several seasons. The actors are still fantastic but the story ran out of gas.

#251 | Posted by rcade at 2017-10-30 05:02 PM

The actors are still fantastic but the story ran out of gas.

#251 | Posted by rcade

They didn't have Donald Trump yet as an example to work from.

Turns out Reality merged with Fantasy and is more bizarre than anything they could have imagined.

#252 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 05:08 PM

Turns out Reality merged with Fantasy and is more bizarre than anything they could have imagined.

#252 | Posted by donnerboy

Totally. After trump was elected, that show suddenly became a boring distraction from some thing much more real and terrible.

#253 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 05:25 PM

--That is, when the lead isn't molesting 14 year old actors...

It's truly unfortunate. I liked Spacey in movies ike Glengarry Glenn Ross, American Beauty, Beyond the Sea, etc.

#257 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 05:30 PM

#255 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT

You mad, bro?

#258 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 05:33 PM

#255 | POSTED BY WISGOD
#256 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Someone is throwing a tantrum. Pissed about choking on a Nothing Burger?

#259 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 05:33 PM

...Washington Examiner's Jen Kerns probably wished she hadn't gone onto Joy Reid's "AM Joy" show on MSNBC. Kerns was there to propagandize the bogus "Hillary Clinton helped sell uranium to Russia" story, but Reid wasn't about to allow her to get away with it on her show. The video below is a wonder to behold:...

#31 | Posted by LampLighter

ding, ding, ding, we have a weiner

#261 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 05:35 PM

ugh ------ cut and paste!

#262 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 05:36 PM

Trumptilians getting indicted, trumptilians pleading guilty, ----- getting a knife to his neck.

Life is Grand!

#264 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 05:39 PM

#255 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT 2017-10-30 05:28 PM

Denying reality is not "posting an opposite view"

Posting an opposite view is what you do for things that are undecided and debateable. At that point both sides are equally valid.

facts are not debateable. There is no legitimate "opposite view". All views that are non factual are what we on the left call lies. There are no "alternate facts" those are lies. facts are not opinions or beliefs. Beliefs and opinions are not facts.

You have the right to your opinion. That does not mean your opinion is right.

#265 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-30 05:39 PM

--You have the right to your opinion. That does not mean your opinion is right.

So why are you are so afraid of different opinions?

#266 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 05:42 PM

#260 | POSTED BY WISGOD

And the tantrum continues.

#267 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 05:42 PM

#260 | POSTED BY WISGOD

You're into that? Gross.

#268 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-30 05:43 PM

#270 | Posted by wisgod

Who hired manafort?

Some guy who swore he hired ALL THE BEST PEOPLE as I recall...

#271 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 05:49 PM

#270 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Negatively.

#272 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-30 05:52 PM

"Guess posting an opposite view Alternate Facts is out of bounds."

#273 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 05:52 PM

#270 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Read his tweets.

We can all clearly see how it is affecting him.

Trump is his own undoing. Couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

#274 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 05:54 PM

#255 | POSTED BY WISGOD
#266 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

What you kool-aid drinkers call "opposite views" and "different opinions" are actually called "deliberate falsehoods".

#275 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 05:56 PM

The only reason trump hasn't been impeached yet is because the republican party are a bunch of treasonous tax cutting puppets.

They're willing to support a completely unqualified incompetent man with nuclear codes, as long as they can get a tax cut for the rich out of the deal.

The biggest story to emerge from this won't be trump's team's collusion or even putin's meddling. It will be the republican party going down in history as refusing to impeach a foreign agent/incompetent mental patient, because trump is definitely one of those, if not both.

#277 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 05:58 PM

--What you kool-aid drinkers call "opposite views" and "different opinions" are actually called "deliberate falsehoods".

If you start from some ideological position, then that's what you say.

#278 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 06:00 PM

1. Collusion was proven, now we find out how extensive it has been. FACT
2. Uranium Story is a nothing burger. FACT.

There are no DIFFERENT OPINIONS. There is denial of facts.

#280 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-10-30 06:02 PM

--The only reason trump hasn't been impeached ye

Let us know when the democrats introduce articles of impeachment and force a vote. What are they waiting for?

#282 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 06:04 PM

Follow the money.
www.nbcnews.com

#283 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:05 PM

Tony Podesta, who founded the left-leaning Podesta Group in 1988, stepped down from his position with the firm on Monday morning, an employee told NBC News.

#285 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:09 PM

>#281 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT

Sure.

Every idiot on this site is "in someone's head."

They were wrong when they said you'd never amount to anything.

Reminder to everyone who lives in the real world, isn't just here to make **** up, etc, Donald Trump and his campaign demanded that Hillary Clinton be sent to prison for not adhering to state department email protocol.

#286 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 06:14 PM

Follow the money.
www.nbcnews.com

#283 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

You are spinning so hard you are going to get dizzy and hurt yourself.

#287 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 06:16 PM

Every idiot on this site is "in someone's head."
#286 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood
Speak for yourself.

#288 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:16 PM

#287 | Posted by Sycophant
Tell that to ABC news.

#289 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:17 PM

#287 | Posted by Sycophant
Tell that to ABC news.

#289 | Posted by Federalist

If they post that on this thread we will.

(in case you didn't know this thread is the one about Manafort being Indicted for Conspiracy Against U.S.)

#291 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 06:20 PM

Manafort and Gates pleaded not guilty to all charges. A judge set bond at $10 million for Manafort, and $5 million for Gates. Both sides agreed to home detention.
I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here.

#292 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:20 PM

I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here.

#292 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST AT

Is the guy who worked on the campaign who plead guilty to collusion with Russia innocent as well?

#293 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-10-30 06:21 PM

www.nbcnews.com

#294 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:21 PM

#293 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood
see#291

#296 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:23 PM

#287 | Posted by Sycophant
Tell that to ABC news.

#289 | Posted by Federalist

By the way. If in the process we find a few corrupt democrats too and we have to take them down to take down to get to Trump so be it.

Let the cards fall where they may.

In the end it will be well worth it.

#297 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 06:23 PM

By the way. If in the process we find a few corrupt democrats too and we have to take them down to take down to get to Trump so be it....

#297 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

What if there ends up not being enough there to take out Trump and a few corrupt Democrats go down?

Still worth it?

#299 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-30 06:25 PM

Let us know when the democrats introduce articles of impeachment and force a vote. What are they waiting for?

#282 | Posted by nullifidian

They're waiting for republicans to grow some ethics or patriotism.

#300 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 06:27 PM

Bit of a headline fail. Yes, "conspiracy against the US Government" is one of his 12 counts, but it's actually a generic term in this case.

I heard one of the counts was "conspiracy against the United States." That sounds like treason.

No, it's not treason. It essentially means that Manafort and Gates conspired together to defeat IRS efforts to enforce tax laws. It's a common charge under the general federal conspiracy statute, which makes it a crime to "commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose."


www.nationalreview.com

Before someone reflexively slaughters the source, the author of the piece I linked is a lawyer.

#301 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-10-30 06:29 PM

#301 | Posted by JeffJ
www.youtube.com

#302 | Posted by Federalist at 2017-10-30 06:39 PM

#255 | POSTED BY WISGOD"
#256 | POSTED BY WISGOD"

I thought Nulli was particularly upset today, until I read Wisgod. Man, unraveling.

#303 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-10-30 06:40 PM

"What if there ends up not being enough there to take out Trump and a few corrupt Democrats go down?
Still worth it?
#299 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Hell yeah. I don't care who the traitors are - hang 'em all!

#304 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2017-10-30 06:41 PM

Did Putin post the bail for the -------------------'s flunkies?

#305 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2017-10-30 06:44 PM

I've never seen Wisgod come apart like this. Good stuff.

lol!

#306 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-30 06:49 PM

Wissy's Packers have already lost Aaron Rogers for the season... losing Trump would be just too much for him to handle.

#307 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 07:01 PM

mmm delicious nothing burgers with russian sauce and conservative tears...

#308 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 07:02 PM

"It essentially means that Manafort and Gates conspired together to defeat IRS efforts to enforce tax laws."

That should make them even more popular with Trumpers. (And with libertarians too, because libertarians think taxation is theft. But I've already said too much.)

#309 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-30 07:05 PM

FYI, hiding in plain sight:

U.S. District Court for D.C. has four sealed cases in its docket with case numbers between Papadopoulos' (182) and Manafort's (201).

#312 | Posted by tonyroma at 2017-10-30 07:07 PM

I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here.
#292 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

If your last name is "Clinton" it certainly doesn't in the eyes of DR conservatives. And to those same morons, if your name ends in (R) it becomes "innocent even if proven guilty".

#313 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

"Come apart about what?"

(Proceeds to come apart.)

#314 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

#311 | Posted by wisgod

When people of lower IQ have their views challenged in ways they can't refute, they react by getting violent, abusive, and engage in childish name calling

That's you all over this thread.

If you were really confident that trump wasn't in any trouble, you wouldn't be losing your composure.

#315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

Let us know when the democrats introduce articles of impeachment and force a vote. What are they waiting for?

#282 | Posted by nullifidian

They're waiting for republicans to grow some ethics or patriotism.

#300 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

What are the Democrats waiting for? The Republicans? Profiles in cowardice.

#316 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

"I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here.
#292 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST"

You were supposed to keep us safe from that with your stupid guns.
I guess you failed at that.
And most everything in life.
Enjoy your anger, it's all you've got.

#317 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-30 07:10 PM

I've never seen Wisgod come apart like this. Good stuff.
lol!

#306 | POSTED BY MODER8

See 310; it is comical. The DR morons are panicking like their trumpfuhrer.

#318 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 07:10 PM

Still worth it?

#299 | Posted by JeffJ

If they broke the law... yes. If they had an email server when it was not illegal to do so ... no.

#319 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 07:12 PM

Oh, Wisgod, your tears are so...red, so...beautiful.

Do they burn?

You are absolutely adorable when you are going mad.

Red is your color.

#321 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-10-30 07:14 PM

If you were really confident that trump wasn't in any trouble, you wouldn't be losing your composure.

#315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

If Trump was confident that Trump wasn't in any trouble Trump would not be losing his composure either.

SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!

#322 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 07:15 PM

I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here.
#292 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

What about the guy who already pleaded guilty?

Do we now have to prove he is guilty to YOUR satisfaction?

#324 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 07:19 PM

Nothingburgers, eh?
WATCH OUT, DR; Eberly will be triggered more than usual now.

#325 | Posted by e1g1 at 2017-10-30 07:21 PM

What are the Democrats waiting for?
#316 | Posted by nullifidian

The Federal investigations to complete?

All I need to know is if Russia attempted to manipulate our elections through cyber warfare and other means.

That immediately makes Trump a traitor as he is still calling Russian attempts to hack our elections a HOAX and has done nothing to protect us from further attacks.

#326 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 07:23 PM

What are the Democrats waiting for? The Republicans? Profiles in cowardice.

#316 | Posted by nullifidian

The investigation to be finished. DUH.

He could already be impeached for conflicts of interest, mental instability, gross incompetence, but that would require republicans to do the right thing.

They have no reason to do that as long as idiots like you pretend dems are just as bad.

#327 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:25 PM

Spare us the BS. The Democrats could introduce an impeachment resolution today, and force a vote getting everyone on record. They are cowards.

#329 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:29 PM

"I guess innocent until proven guilty does not apply around here."

LOL Lock her up! Still being pushed to this day by Trump, Trump supporters, Breitbart, Fox News and so on.

#330 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 07:33 PM

#329 Nulli
They could but Republicans are traitors to their country and wouldn't vote for it.

#331 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 07:36 PM

"The Federal investigations to complete?" - #326 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 07:23 PM

What kind of BS is this?

Democrats in the US House have no power to introduce legislation, and have no power to force a vote.

What kind of political coward suggests they have such power?

Other than the political coward, Nulli Quisling, of course.

#332 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-30 07:38 PM

Spare us the BS. The Democrats could introduce an impeachment resolution today, and force a vote getting everyone on record. They are cowards.

#329 | Posted by nullifidian

Right, then you'd get to whine, "how come they're introducing impeachment before the investigation is over?"

That's the great thing about being a trump chump. You get to whine about everything and never hold anyone to account, unless that person is a democrat.

#333 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:38 PM

"You get to whine about everything and never hold anyone to account, unless that person is a democrat." - #333 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:38 PM

Meanwhile, some people here claim Nulli Quisling is a liberal.

Chickenshat.

#334 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-30 07:42 PM

Nulli Quisling, of course.

#332 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-30 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Calls himself a tolerant liberal and talks like a McCarthyite

#335 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:42 PM

--They could but Republicans are traitors to their country and wouldn't vote for it.

So what? The point is to get congress on record, and take their case to the voters. Why are democrats such cowards?

#336 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:45 PM

The valentine wiggin as demosthenes impression is getting old, nulli.

#337 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 07:45 PM

"Why are democrats such cowards?"

That's actually a good question.

#338 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 07:47 PM

So what? The point is to get congress on record, and take their case to the voters. Why are democrats such cowards?

#336 | Posted by nullifidian

Why are you such a coward? The president is a liar, sociopath, egomaniac, sexual predator, con artist, and possibly a foreign agent, yet you can't get yourself to stand up against him?

Pathetic. Weak. And cowardly.

#339 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:48 PM

--Why are you such a coward? The president is a liar, sociopath, egomaniac, sexual predator, con artist, and possibly a foreign agent,

So why aren't Democrats trying to impeach him, today?

#340 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:50 PM

"So why aren't Democrats trying to impeach him, today?"

Why aren't Republicans?

#341 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-30 07:52 PM

"Why are democrats such cowards?"

That's actually a good question.

#338 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 07:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because they sold out to the same corporate interests the Republicans have and they lost their collective legs to stand upon.

#342 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-30 07:53 PM

#340 Nulli

For one thing, the Dems don't control Congress.

For another, you traitors would never vote for it.

#343 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-10-30 07:54 PM

--For one thing, the Dems don't control Congress.

Irrelevant. The Dems could force a vote getting everyone on record. What are those cowards afraid of?

#344 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 07:57 PM

#340 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Some of them have already started the impeachment process moron.

#345 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 07:57 PM

--Some of them have already started the impeachment process moron.

They can start with a Privilege Motion, and get a up-or-down vote today. What are they afraid of?

#346 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 08:01 PM

"Conspiracy Against the United States"

Everyone know that Manafort is just Phase One, right?

#347 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-30 08:03 PM

"SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING"

May be the most pathetic thing I've ever heard a president say.

#348 | Posted by Zed at 2017-10-30 08:04 PM

What all the Trumpster's are overlooking here is that George Papadopoulos was arrested in JULY 2017 and pleaded guilty shortly thereafter.

That means he has been talking to Mueller since then.

I will bet that Trump knows this. And everyone that had dealings with Papadopoulos also knows this.

Papadopoulos was arrested on July 27 and pleaded guilty, and a special counsel document dated October 5 says he agreed to plead guilty. However, special counsel Robert Mueller asked the court to keep all of that secret until now because, in Mueller's words, the "[d]efendant has indicated that he is willing to cooperate with the government in its ongoing investigation into Russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election."

"Public disclosure of the defendant's initial appearance, however, would significantly undermine his ability to serve as a proactive cooperator," he continued.

In other words, Mueller wants him to offer and gather up more information about possible Trump-Russia ties. It's worth noting just how impressive it is that Mueller and his team kept all of these developments secret until they chose to release the information today.

www.vox.com

MMMMMMMMMMM THAT IS ONE TASTY NOTHINGBURGER!

#349 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 08:15 PM

Michael Isikoff‏ @Isikoff

When FBI agents picked lock on Manafort's house, they found Ukrainian lobbying records he had told DOJ didn't exist

Manafort charges grew out of records seized in 'no-knock' raid

www.yahoo.com

#350 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 08:22 PM

Trump's Campaign people are getting indicted, so naturally Trumpifidian is whining about Democrats.

It's like when Nazis are shooting at black people and beating up women, he's whining about antifa.

#somuchwhining!

#351 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-30 08:29 PM

RE# 350 FTA

Those records helped Mueller put together a case accusing Manafort and Gates of serving as "unregistered" foreign agents by engaging over an eight-year period in a "multimillion dollar lobbying campaign" that was done "at the direction" of former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and his pro-Russian Party of Regions. Yanukovych is now living in Moscow.

In my day when we were winning the Cold War against Russia we called people who did these kind of things spies.

#352 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-30 08:30 PM

"Because they sold out to the same corporate interests the Republicans have..." - #342 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-30 07:53 PM

So says the person who claims that Trump is "...your classic New York liberal.".

Considering the source.

#353 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-30 08:39 PM

Manafort and a few others will be convicted. By that time Trump's first term will be up and he will pardon them.

#354 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-10-30 09:04 PM

--For another, you traitors would never vote for it.

#343 | Posted by Sycophant

I think the globalist, open-borders, anti-nation-states world government types are the real traitors.

#355 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 09:33 PM

I think the globalist, open-borders, anti-nation-states world government types are the real traitors.

"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do

A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world,

I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one."

Songwriter/traitor: John Lennon

Isn't it odd how Lennon's message of peace and unity are now interpreted as the message of globalist, open-borders, anti-nation-states world government traitors?

#356 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-30 09:45 PM

Yeah, John Lennon. That's really deep, man.

#357 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 09:53 PM

I think the globalist, open-borders, anti-nation-states world government types are the real traitors.

#355 | Posted by nullifidian

Point to a single person in political power advocating open borders.

Thats the type of republican scaremongering they use to scare fools into voting for billionaires' puppets.

The tell people liberals want open borders, humans marrying donkeys, gun seizures, death panels, on and on, and none of it is true. The only people who buy it are gullible chumps. Guess you're one of them.

#358 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 09:59 PM

--Point to a single person in political power advocating open borders.

Try not to a gullible knave. They don't say that, they just enable it.

#359 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 10:02 PM

That's really deep, man.

It's funny you were ever considered a liberal.

#360 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-10-30 10:09 PM

--The valentine wiggin as demosthenes

Used that twice. Bet you think it's clever.

#361 | Posted by nullifidian at 2017-10-30 10:14 PM

when did i say it before?

#362 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 10:42 PM

"Used that twice. Bet you think it's clever."

Takes one to know one. You've used that Teen Vogue reference, which I assume you think is clever, more than twice. Just sayin.

#363 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:48 PM

"By the way. If in the process we find a few corrupt democrats too and we have to take them down to take down to get to Trump so be it.
Let the cards fall where they may.
In the end it will be well worth it."

Yeah, and it's bound to happen. Oh well. Or as my bf said, "If they're guilty, too bad." A fresh start will be nice.

#364 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-10-30 10:52 PM

"Why are democrats such cowards?"

That's actually a good question.

I'd rather see Trump neutered and the GOP rendered impotent until the Democrats can gain majority in the Senate, at least.

I have no desire to have Pence as President.

Just give Trump a pretend "football" and then we can sit back and maybe relax.

#365 | Posted by YAV at 2017-10-30 10:57 PM

I don't want pence as president either, but we can't do nothing. Trump is losing whatever tiny mind had, and he controls the nukes.

#366 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2017-10-30 11:03 PM

That's where the pretend "football" comes in -

#367 | Posted by YAV at 2017-10-30 11:27 PM

Not to change the subject but doesn't anybody find it strange that Rick Gates could put up a $5 Million bond and still be granted a court appointed attorney. I thought you had to plead poverty to do that.

#368 | Posted by Twinpac at 2017-10-31 12:01 AM

- They don't say that, they just enable it.

Who is "They" in this paranoid fantasy?

You should name some of these open border menaces for us.

#369 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-31 12:05 AM

🍔🍟🍺

#370 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-10-31 12:37 AM

It is against the law for the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee to funnel millions of dollars to a British spy and to Russian sources in order to obtain the infamous and discredited Trump "dossier." The Federal Election Campaign Act (52 USC 30101) prohibits foreign nationals and governments from giving or receiving money in U.S. campaigns. It also prohibits the filing of false or misleading campaign reports to hide the true purpose of the money (52 USC 30121). This is what Clinton and the DNC appear to have done.

Greg Jarrett

#371 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-10-31 08:09 AM

It could be said that Hillary Clinton is the one who was conspiring with the Russians by breaking campaign finance laws with impunity.

Greg Jarrett

#372 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2017-10-31 08:09 AM

Just an observation: Why did the comment count on this thread stop at 335, when in fact my comment now brings the total to 373?

#373 | Posted by cbob at 2017-10-31 09:32 AM

#373, Thirty-seven posts have been deleted.

#374 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-10-31 09:39 AM

I think the globalist, open-borders, anti-nation-states world government types are the real traitors.

#355 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

I've got some bad news for you, my old sparring partner friend.

Both parties know and are complicit in this directive.

the argument is not over 'should we build this house or not', the argument is over 'what color drapes should it have'.

It ain't gonna happen in our lifetimes, but the crucial elements have already been born. Sure, they are both incompetent infants right now, but a world-wide currency exists, and a world-wide government exists.

Both are modeled on what used to exist in the USA. Do yourself a favor and consider how both our currency system and our government almost collapsed many times before 1900.

#375 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-10-31 10:29 AM

--Point to a single person in political power advocating open borders.

Try not to a gullible knave. They don't say that, they just enable it.

#359 | Posted by nullifidian

Sure. YOu know they do because fox news told you so. And they never lie.

#376 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 11:26 AM

It is against the law for the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee to funnel millions of dollars to a British spy and to Russian sources in order to obtain the infamous and discredited Trump "dossier." The Federal Election Campaign Act (52 USC 30101) prohibits foreign nationals and governments from giving or receiving money in U.S. campaigns. It also prohibits the filing of false or misleading campaign reports to hide the true purpose of the money (52 USC 30121). This is what Clinton and the DNC appear to have done.

Greg Jarrett

#371 | Posted by tontonmacoute

Does that somehow make colluding with putin legal or acceptable?

#377 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 11:27 AM

Nulli

If you are against globalism then why do you align yourself with conservatives who voted consistently for the free trade agreements that allow the globalist multinational corporations to leverage their power and control governments?

NAFTA:

House Republicans 132-43 YEA (75%)
House Democrats 102-156 YEA (39%)

Senate republicans 34-10 YEA (77%)
Senate Democrats 27-28 YEA (48%)

CAFTA:

House Republicans 202-27 YEA (88%)
House Democrats 15-187 YEA (7%)

Senate republicans 43-10 YEA (81%)
Senate Democrats 12-33 YEA (26%)

Do you see a pattern?

#378 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-31 11:27 AM

So why aren't Democrats trying to impeach him, today?

#340 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2017-10-30 07:50 PM |

For the same reason Mueller didn't arrest Manafort 6 months ago.

They are building a case

#379 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-31 11:40 AM

- They don't say that, they just enable it.

Who is "They" in this paranoid fantasy?

You should name some of these open border menaces for us.

#369 | Posted by Corky at 2017-10-31 12:05 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

The "they" you ask? This whole argument is completely nuts. The answer is both Republicans and Democrats who have continually turned a blind eye to the problem of illegal immigration for many years. The answer to the problem is putting employers in jail for hiring undocumented workers. Most politicians, regardless of the letter behind their name, won't touch it. Trump's answer is building a wall, but what do we do with the 6-12 million here working illegally?

#380 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-10-31 12:24 PM

Nulli

If you are against globalism then why do you align yourself with conservatives who voted consistently for the free trade agreements that allow the globalist multinational corporations to leverage their power and control governments?

NAFTA:

House Republicans 132-43 YEA (75%)
House Democrats 102-156 YEA (39%)

Senate republicans 34-10 YEA (77%)
Senate Democrats 27-28 YEA (48%)

CAFTA:

House Republicans 202-27 YEA (88%)
House Democrats 15-187 YEA (7%)

Senate republicans 43-10 YEA (81%)
Senate Democrats 12-33 YEA (26%)

Do you see a pattern?

#378 | Posted by hatter5183

To idiots like nulli and sheeple, those numbers are exactly equal. Dems aren't totally pure so might as well elect trump.

#381 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:17 PM

Dems aren't totally pure so might as well elect trump.
#381 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Two sides of the same coin. Except to cult followers and rubes.

#382 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 01:27 PM

"Two sides of the same coin."

Merrick Garland and Neil Gorsuch would like to disagree with you.

#383 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-10-31 01:30 PM

They have no reason to do that as long as idiots like you pretend dems are just as bad. - #327 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:25 PM
When people of lower IQ have their views challenged in ways they can't refute, they react by getting violent, abusive, and engage in childish name calling - #315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

#384 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-10-31 01:36 PM

The DR morons are panicking like their trumpfuhrer. - #318 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 07:10 PM
When people of lower IQ have their views challenged in ways they can't refute, they react by getting violent, abusive, and engage in childish name calling - #315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM
>

#385 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-10-31 01:39 PM

Make Avigdore Grovel Again!

#386 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-10-31 01:40 PM

Two sides of the same coin. Except to cult followers and rubes.

#382 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Again, saying that only makes you look foolish.

And rather childish. To pout and say if you can't have the perfect solution then you might as well make everything worse for everyone.

The supreme court, climate change, health care, taxes, the deficit... all these are going to be massively different because of trump than they would have been under clinton, IN A BAD WAY.

To say thing would have been the same under clinton serves only 2 purposes - to help trump, and to make yourself look really really stupid.

#387 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:40 PM

#384 | Posted by Avigdore

If I say - people who believe trump are idiots. I'm not calling you an idiot. I'm giving you the option to be an idiot or not.

#388 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:42 PM

A Clinton win would have cemented lesser-evil-centrist claptraps for the next 3 decades.

Wall Street criminals, globalist militarism, pay-for-play charities, and 1% oligarchs thank you for your support.

We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC.

#389 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 01:46 PM

Other than the political coward, Nulli Quisling, of course. - #332 | Posted by Hans at 2017-10-30 07:38 PM
... moron. - #345 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-10-30 07:57 PM
To idiots like nulli and sheeple... - #381 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:17 PM
When people of lower IQ have their views challenged in ways they can't refute, they react by getting violent, abusive, and engage in childish name calling - #315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

#390 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-10-31 01:46 PM

Spin and dance however you like, Speaksoftly, but you're doing what you called others out for in this very same posting.

#391 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-10-31 01:48 PM

A Clinton win would have cemented lesser-evil-centrist claptraps for the next 3 decades.

Wall Street criminals, globalist militarism, pay-for-play charities, and 1% oligarchs thank you for your support.

We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC.

#389 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Really? Clinton winning would mean only clinton-like candidates would win for 30 years?

Great ALTERNATIVE FACT there.

Those same evil groups are STILL in power now, only now the climate gets trashed, the drug war gets ramped up, and poor people lose health care too.

#392 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:57 PM

Spin and dance however you like, Speaksoftly, but you're doing what you called others out for in this very same posting.

#391 | Posted by Avigdore

Hey I call a LOT of people idiots on this site, but I always do it with a side dish of debate.

I don't just respond with an insult. I'll refute their argument, and call them an idiot for making such a stupid argument.

Others CANT refute an argument, so they try to just insult instead. Those people are idiots.

#393 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 01:58 PM

A Clinton win would have cemented lesser-evil-centrist claptraps for the next 3 decades.
Wall Street criminals, globalist militarism, pay-for-play charities, and 1% oligarchs thank you for your support.
We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC.
#389 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM AT 2017-10-31 01:46 PM |

How is electing the greater evil a good thing?

That's like shooting yourself in the head and rejoicing that you didn't shoot yourself in the leg.

#394 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-10-31 03:05 PM

Those same evil groups are STILL in power now, only now the climate gets trashed, the drug war gets ramped up, and poor people lose health care too.
#392 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I refuse to support these evil groups at all, to a greater, or lesser capacity.

Your capitulation is tantamount to agreeing to be raped, as long as they don't hurt you in the face.

F-that.

#395 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 03:20 PM

How is electing the greater evil a good thing?
That's like shooting yourself in the head and rejoicing that you didn't shoot yourself in the leg.

#394 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

As long as this little trick works on you, they'll continue make you the same offer.

It's only when we reject their false choice that we can begin to take back control.

#396 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 03:25 PM

We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC.

#389 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Oh sure! We "dodged a bullet" then impaled ourselves onto Vlad's spear.

Excellent move.

"Tis but a scratch!"

"Crooked Hillary!"

"I've had worse!"

"It's just a flesh wound!"

#397 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-31 03:29 PM

"Tis but a scratch!"
"Crooked Hillary!"
"I've had worse!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
#397 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Deflections do have their value. You can tell how significant a topic is by the
number of attempted deflections. When someone cannot address the topic or
counter the facts but can only deflect you know immediately that you are onto
something Bigly.

#82 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

#398 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 03:34 PM

I refuse to support these evil groups at all, to a greater, or lesser capacity.

Your capitulation is tantamount to agreeing to be raped, as long as they don't hurt you in the face.

F-that.

#395 | Posted by SheepleSchism

If you refuse to support them in a lesser capacity, then you ARE supporting them to a greater capacity. Because those are your only choices. Or move to the woods with Ray and wait for the world to burn down so you can say "I told you so."

You're still being raped. And your motto is: if I'm gonna get raped, it might as well be by a guy with a huge dick.

Smart people will choose a less well-hung rapist.

#399 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 03:36 PM

"I refuse to support these evil groups at all, to a greater, or lesser capacity."

Meanwhile, back in reality:

"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

#400 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-31 03:38 PM

Sheep,

Vote your conscience man, by all means. But, conscience-wise what political policies (not just principles, but policies...things that impact your fellow man's lives) do you advocate and how are those measures advanced or hindered by the current administration? Are you really getting what your conscience sought right now ... in the future?

Assuming politics isn't entirely about social media posturing and virtue signaling, how is this era advancing actual policies that you care about?

#401 | Posted by leadbelly at 2017-10-31 03:49 PM

You're still being raped. And your motto is: if I'm gonna get raped, it might as well be by a guy with a huge dick.
Smart people will choose a less well-hung rapist.

#399 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2017-10-31 03:36 PM | REPLY

I pulled my punch at making a rape metaphor joke, but I was gonna go with "all three holes"

#402 | Posted by leadbelly at 2017-10-31 03:50 PM

Smart people will choose a less well-hung rapist.
#399 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

It's sad you feel so helpless, Speaks. You're obviously not alone.

But I won't be a party to any of these criminals getting elected.

#403 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 04:39 PM

"All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."
#400 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Evil also succeeds when the only choices presented are evil of varying degrees.

When we stop swallowing whatever evil they try to force-feed us?

We'll be able to pass quality legislation that Americans want and benefits us all.

#404 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-10-31 04:45 PM

But I won't be a party to any of these criminals getting elected.

#403 | Posted by SheepleSchism

You already are. YOu're party to the WORSE criminals getting elected.

And that criminal's party is taking nationwide actions to make it harder to vote, so that the next time a candidate you DO support comes along, it will be harder for them to win.

#405 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:19 PM

When we stop swallowing whatever evil they try to force-feed us?

#404 | Posted by SheepleSchism

IN the primary. Whenever we get the chance.

After that, you vote for the lesser evil, unless you're a moron or a baby.

#406 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:20 PM

After that, you vote for the lesser evil, unless you're a moron or a baby.

Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:20 PM | Reply

Or if you can't swallow the first 2 and refuse to vote for evil.

#407 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-31 05:24 PM

Or if you can't swallow the first 2 and refuse to vote for evil.

#407 | Posted by LauraMohr

Then the greater evil wins, the world gets more evil, and you get to sit around watching the world burn feeling smug and superior.

#408 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:30 PM

#82 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

#398 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Oh my! Did I deflect your HRC deflection on a Manafort thread?

silly me!

#409 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-10-31 05:31 PM

Then the greater evil wins, the world gets more evil, and you get to sit around watching the world burn feeling smug and superior.

Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:30 PM | Reply

Only if you keep playing their game and strike out against the duopoly. If you want change you have to think for yourself and not buy into their rhetoric. If you keep playing their game we all lose.

#410 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-10-31 05:36 PM

Only if you keep playing their game and strike out against the duopoly. If you want change you have to think for yourself and not buy into their rhetoric. If you keep playing their game we all lose.

#410 | Posted by LauraMohr

Guess what? A bunch of people refused to play the game in november and we all lost even worse.

If you want change, you vote for the person most likely to bring the change you want.

Do you want a clean environment? Are you so stupid you can't tell whether trump or clinton would be more beneficial for the environment?

Do you want voter disenfranchisement? Are you so stupid you can't tell which party is trying to prevent people from voting?

Do you want wall street regulation? Are you so stupid you can't tell the difference between the party that created the consumer protection bureau and the one trying to destroy it?

#411 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 05:51 PM

#410 And when has that ever happened?
Just one example from US elections, please!

#412 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-10-31 05:51 PM

Speak, your left wing talking points are so tiring. Stop calling anyone who disagrees with you stupid and make a valid point or STFU already.

#413 | Posted by fishpaw at 2017-10-31 09:42 PM

Speak, your left wing talking points are so tiring. Stop calling anyone who disagrees with you stupid and make a valid point or STFU already.

#413 | Posted by fishpaw

Refute one of my points and we can start a debate. All you've got so far is name calling.

#414 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-31 09:44 PM

If they can send Martha Stewert to jail, they can nail anybody they want.

#415 | Posted by Ray at 2017-10-31 09:47 PM

#389 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM
"We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC."

And got hit by a truck.

#416 | Posted by TheTom at 2017-10-31 11:55 PM

"We dodged a bullet by rejecting HRC."

Well, Trump was right about one thing: he said if I voted for Hillary, the next President would be under investigation for years.

#417 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-11-01 12:23 AM

But I won't be a party to any of these criminals getting elected.

#403 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM AT 2017-10-31 04:39 PM

In the words of the great Geddy Lee

"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice"

Voting for none of the above is a de facto vote for whoever wins. You can't say it wasn't your fault when someone crappy gets elected because if enough of you benchwarmers voted someone else could have been elected.

The entire electorate participates in every election. Staying home and not voting is a form of participation

#418 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2017-11-01 11:46 AM

The max penalty for failing to file under FARA is 5 years and/or $10,000. Not sure he is conspiring against the US by engaging in lobbying efforts or introducing Ukrainian principals to law firms in the US. If the companies listed in the indictment owed US tax and did not pay, they should and will, but I could see any prison sentence on that running concurrent with the FARA registration fail. If he brought funds over illegally that may also bring jail time and payment of tax and penalties.

The other dude Papa-something plead really quick to lying to the FBI in July. He has probably been wearing a wire since about that time. But as with the Steele dossier, isn't it typical in politics to dig dirt on one's opponents? And btw, he never did get that dirt because the the Ukrainians / Russians would never give up their best pal madam secretary.

The relevant time periods do not seem like anything will stick to POTUS on these charges. And we're saying it's Russia collusion using the Ukraine as a proxy with deep cover agents? That's deep ... hip deep.

#419 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-11-01 01:12 PM

#419

Post is paper thin. This is but the tip of the iceberg, not the whole enchilada.

#420 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:14 PM

The thing Trump told the truth about is that if your famous in Hollywood you just grab them by the -----. He forgot mounting young men, but nobody's accused POTUS of that.

Take your moral outrage / high ground with a bit of salt on your crow (metaphor mixed purposely)

#421 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-11-01 01:18 PM

"And btw, he never did get that dirt because the the Ukrainians / Russians would never give up their best pal madam secretary."

The Russians gave the dirt to WikiLeaks, of "I love WikiLeaks" fame.

#422 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 01:20 PM

"He forgot mounting young men, but nobody's accused POTUS of that."

No, the allegations are only of him raping young women.

#423 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-11-01 01:22 PM

I haven't heard of allegations of rape against POTUS, just Hollywood elite. Do you have a link?

#424 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2017-11-01 01:25 PM

- moral outrage / high ground

Trump continuously lying in a deep ditch makes those things a natural occurrence for most lucid folk.

(Double entendre used purposely)

#425 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:28 PM

- I haven't heard

"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest.... lie, lie, lie..."

www.snopes.com

en.wikipedia.org

#426 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:32 PM

what they want to hear - edit malfunction

#427 | Posted by Corky at 2017-11-01 01:38 PM

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