Great news for us, not so good for our kids.

woo-hoo

National Debt Free Day for 2008 has been moved to April 23, 3008, however.

So by not paying the illegal Federal Income tax I can save myself 74 days of work? Sweet!

Why is this not good for our kids?

If you can't figure out why it isn't good for our kids then I guess you'll just have to wonder.

I have a feeling that Danni thinks whatever private property the government can get it's grubby hands on will benefit our children's future for some reason. If they could take it all our children would live in some grand utopia right Danni?

I would say that setting a precedent of outrageous taxation, and deficit spending is the most detrimental thing we can do to our kids, but good luck finding a politician who wants to actually cut a budget.

Danni

I think Pinkie is eagerly awaiting his $600. It's going to change his life in magical ways.

"If you can't figure out why it isn't good for our kids then I guess you'll just have to wonder."




"If you have to ask,
you'll never know."

- Beavis and Butt Head

"I have a feeling that Danni thinks whatever private property the government can get it's grubby hands on will benefit our children's future for some reason. "

Whereas I have a feeling Danni can actually read a balance sheet.

Dan, does that mean you think the government is doing an efficient job of spending your money? And you like them to take more of it because they do such a great job?

I suppose Danni thinks we should be slaves to the government more than four months out of the year.

Screw that crap! FAIR TAX! Is all I care about when it comes to uncle sam and my money! Read about it before you make any stupid remarks about it! www.fairtax.org/site/
PageServer?pagename=about_main

Get the books about the Fair Tax!
www.amazon.com/FairTax-Book-
Neal-Boortz/dp/0060875410

Our kids will be working until April 23, 2028 to pay the tax bill for this year, however.

"I would say that setting a precedent of outrageous taxation, and deficit spending is the most detrimental thing we can do to our kids,"

I wouldn't say that, I would say the burdening them with our debt is one of the worst things we could do to them. I am pretty sure our kids will remember our generation as the first and only one to fight unnecessary wars and enjoy tax cuts at the same time. Me thinks they won't be calling us the "greatest generation", more likely "the greediest generation", even stealing from our own kids.

"Screw that crap! FAIR TAX!"

Cuz rich folks don't like taxes!!!

Screw the working class. Go Fair Tax!!!

Read the propaganda, don't use common sense.

"I think Pinkie is eagerly awaiting his $600. It's going to change his life in magical ways."

Hell yeah I'm looking forward to my rebate.

Wait, what? I have to pay China $750 in 20 years for it? I guess I'll just invest it all in some CD's and hope that I break even.

"Screw the working class. Go Fair Tax!!!"

So you think being taxed on your earnings and not your spending keeps more money in your pocket? Only a wasteful spender would be against this plan.

"Only a wasteful spender would be against this plan."

Only two types of people would be for the "Fairhaha Tax"

1. People not smart enough to realize that the wealthy pay the biggest part of the income tax.

2. The wealthy.

Now we get reports that they are going to run out of money... Didn't Bush try to address this a while back? What became of that?

"I would agree that the war is costing too much. *But*"

But nothing. The war is costing too much and doesn't benefit America at all. It is totally a waste of trillions of dollars. Those other things may be expensive but at least they do benefit the nation.

I either want less corruption or more of a chance to participate in it.

There!

Passing a budget thats not in the black should be a capital crime. With a death sentence for it.

"Tax Freedom".. Now there's an oxymoron..

I think the Fairtax is a good plan. Much better than we have now. However, I would be just as happy with a flat tax. Tax reform in general is necessary because our current system is contributing to the bankruptcy of this country and keeping too many of our great citizens in poverty.

Let me give you a micro-view of what is happening to our nation for those who are ignorant to our tax structure. In Minneapolis, they have raised the taxes on businesses to about 20% of their revenue. Because of this, many businesses are leaving for the suburbs. This puts employees of those businesses out of work because they live in the city and have no transportation to the suburbs. These people cannot find new work because, due to the tax structure, no new businesses are coming in. They start to live off of government funds and what was once one of the most beautiful and safe major cities in the US is turning into Detroit (ok, not that bad, but it is in the early stages).
On top of that, the government is no longer making as much money (and having to spend more on dependents) because businesses have left and so they either need to (1)raise taxes on business even higher (2)raise sales taxes or (3)raise land taxes. They could cut some programs, but we know that is unrealistic.
If they raise taxes on business, even more businesses leave and we have higher unemployment. The cost of everything increases and it gets even tighter to live on a budget.
If they raise sales taxes, without lowering any other tax rates, local businesses take no direct hit, but they will sell less because the tax is raised. This means they can make better profits in the suburbs, so they leave.
If they raise land taxes, the wealthy who pay most of those get pissed off, leave and take their contributions in taxes off the government books.
All of these solutions involve raising taxes and really make the problem worse. Here is a better idea.
They should drop the tax on business to a lower rate. No more businesses will leave (because of taxes) and all those abandonded shops will be reopened by somebody. Employment levels go back up and people can afford to live a decent life. You could even still raise the sales tax and businesses will not take a hit if total prices remain as before.

If you look at this one city, you can see the comparisons to what is happening in our nation as a whole. The more we tax, the worse the situation gets, especially if you are taxing those that are providing money-making opportunities for the rest of us. This is why we need an overhaul of our current system.

"If they raise land taxes, the wealthy who pay most of those get pissed off, leave and take their contributions in taxes off the government books."

ER, they can leave but their land will remain and the taxes on it will still be collected, either from them or the new owners.

Your post doesn't give any reason for supporting the "fairhaha tax".

"If they raise sales taxes, without lowering any other tax rates, local businesses take no direct hit, but they will sell less because the tax is raised."

Yeah, a 30-50% sales tax will really bring those customers back in to spend money.

Only a wasteful spender would be against this plan. Pinkie

The Fair Tax is just another oxymoron that should never be passed into law.

This gained ground among some in the business community because it eliminates taxes on business. It's true that those are hidden taxes on the consumer, but I only favor that on American goods, not importers.

I've had two friends in the last year go shopping for an new truck and come back shaking their head because they can't see laying out $40,000 for a truck. Add 20-odd percent tax and they wouldn't have even thought about it.

I've listened to the arguments and read the proposal and I am against it. One of the selling points is that it is revenue neutral at a time that we are spending more than we take in. So ultimately the tax would have to be raised or we'd have to make deep cuts.

It's always better to make the cuts first because that focuses the priorities.

I favor the Transaction Tax. Recently I pointed out one proposal to a "Fair Taxer" and the response was that more people endorsed the FA. That doesn't make it better. But the bankers and arbitragers will fight the TA because they make a lot of transactions and so it's doomed.

Anytime you have to subsidize a portion of the population to implement a tax there's something wrong with the tax. That's the FA argument when people say that it would unfairly burden people who have a lower income - There's a monthly stipend for the poor folks.

A TA would automatically deduct one percent or less from any transaction, just like a sales tax. Very simple and easy to adjust, and it would require much less effort to collect because there are no exceptions, and it's all part of doing business. Take $100 out of the bank and they deduct a dollar from your account and send that to the collector.

But guys who trade stocks, commodities, or play the currency markets make thousands of transactions every day. With a TA they'd have to factor that in, and we'd see less marginal activity. That might be a good thing.

But the "Fair Tax" would be a bad thing. Fahgettaboutit.

And you like them to take more of it because they do such a great job?

Posted by the_nether

I find it odd that people refer to the government, in which they have a real input and a real opportunity to control as "them" yet refer to sports teams, in which they have no say and no input to the outcome as "we".

Shouldn't it be the other way around? If you don't like it, get involved or expect the worst. I do a little of both.

Is there a national debt? Uh, yes.

Should we pay it off sooner rather than later?

"Only a wasteful spender would be against this plan."

Only two types of people would be for the "Fairhaha Tax"

1. People not smart enough to realize that the wealthy pay the biggest part of the income tax.

2. The wealthy.

Posted by danni

The wealthy may pay the most taxes but not income taxes. If they can't move their wealth from the income side to the investment side they are not very smart.

Only a wasteful spender would be against this plan.


Yes someone that spends all their earnings on wasteful things like groceries, energy and healthcare.

I've had two friends in the last year go shopping for an new truck and come back shaking their head because they can't see laying out $40,000 for a truck. Add 20-odd percent tax and they wouldn't have even thought about it.



Try adding 30% + to it.

Also one question for all the fair tax stooges....

You count on all income taxes being replaced by the fair tax.... what about state income, gift and estate taxes? Are they going to magically go away?

If the dems come to power, push the date back to some time in May.

If the dems come to power, push the date back to some time in May.

" If they can't move their wealth from the income side to the investment side they are not very smart."

Agreed and that is as it should be. I don't want to take all their money but i do want them to invest it....here in the US. We should have laws to penalize overseas investing and reward investment here in the US. That is one of the arguments for the income tax, it encourages investment....where as the "FairTaxhaha" would not reward it.

BTW some who have examined the Fair Tax say that the estimate of the level of tax required is too low and that numbers closer to 50% would be more accurate.

"Dan, does that mean you think the government is doing an efficient job of spending your money?"

No, who said that?

"And you like them to take more of it because they do such a great job?"

Again, off the mark. I just don't trust anything from a group who claims you'll get to "keep your paycheck" and prices will remain "essentially the same". I learned that's incorrect in my first economic course.

"We should have laws to penalize overseas investing and reward investment here in the US."

Instead, due to the falling value of the dollar, we have exactly the opposite.

this just in - TAX freedom day for next year estimated to be December 18th, 2009 ... should a democrat win the Presidency.

Hey Dan, what group are you talking about? My point is that the government spends too much of our money, and just because our taxes don't cover the bill doesn't mean I'm ready to fork over more.

Danni, I said deficit spending was a problem and you countered with,

"burdening them with our debt is one of the worst things we could do to them."

So I guess you agree. Stop spending.

The so-called "Tax Freedom Day" makes as much sense as "Live in your house free day."

Hans

Agreed Hans. It's like saying, "humans sleep for a total of six years throughout their lives, so when you turn seven, you can live the rest of your life in sleep freedom!" I was no more paying my total income into taxes over the past four months than I was sleeping for the first six years of my life.

I wish Danni would actually read up on the fair-tax. Its obvious she only knows just enough to be critical. Funny thing is that everything she said is well refuted in the book.

Keep those eyes shut tight, Danni. Keep repeating bogus criticisms over and over again until they magically turn true. Typical of exactly how today's democrats solve problems.

I find it interesting that an issue which gets so much coverage on the net gets so little in the real world. Whenever I've seen Fair Tax brought up in the real world, I've also seen mostly blank faces. Of those who have looked into it, almost everyone has dismissed it. Seems like it's going to be quite a while yet before the net and reality start even resembling being in sync.

Fair Tax fans: Under the fair tax, if a person spends 100% of their income, how much of their income is taxed? And under the fair tax, if a person spends 20% of thier income, how much of their income is taxed?

"humans sleep for a total of six years throughout their lives, so when you turn seven, you can live the rest of your life in sleep freedom!"

Good one, The_Nether.

Hans

Do away with withholding. Have them write a check to govco every three months. See how many people go crazy!

"Fair Tax fans: Under the fair tax, if a person spends 100% of their income, how much of their income is taxed? And under the fair tax, if a person spends 20% of thier income, how much of their income is taxed?"

It depends on the income level. Let's use the middle class example of a person who makes $27,000 a year and round the poverty line up to $10,000. About 14.5% of this person's spending will go toward taxes if he/she spends all of their income.
If the same person spends only 20% of their income, about 2.7% of their earnings will go to federal government.

This shows that, ultimately, this person (who needs every dollar he/she can get) will be taxed at a lower rate than our current system.

"Hey Dan, what group are you talking about?"

The group that missed the lesson in Econ 101 that explained the causes of inflation.

This shows that, ultimately, this person (who needs every dollar he/she can get) will be taxed at a lower rate than our current system

There is a sucker born every second. ALL government expenditures are paid for buy taxpayers, whether it's now or later.

"not so good for our kids."

Like I care about your kids....

I'm with Kerrin on this stop the built in wage garnishment the GOV puts on our wages and have us write check every 3 months. People WOULD go apeshit. You start to care more about how YOUR money is spent when you have to physically write out the check.


I read the FairTax book. Made sense to me actually. I dont listen to people who talk trash about the Fairtax but never read the book. Its like talking about physics and never reading a physics book, Saying you dont like lobster but you have never eaten one.

"Like I care about your kids...."

I don't have any kids. My problem is I'm worried for yours.

"I dont listen to people who talk trash about the Fairtax but never read the book"

How about those of us who've read the thing twice, but also passed economics classes?

"I dont listen to people who talk trash about the Fairtax but never read the book."

I don't listen to people who talk trash about Satanism but never read the Satanic Bible.

Sincerely,
Anton Levy

Apparently, some people will be able to find something wrong with any tax system except the shitty one we have now. Our current tax system is way too complicated and costs businesses way too much time and money just keeping up with them. It is particularly painful for small businesses who are responsible for a substantial number of American jobs. As the owner of a small company, not having to deal with the tax returns would save us a decent chunk of wasted money and a substantial amount of time. I'm not saying that the fair tax is perfect, but nearly anything would be better at this point...

I think a national sales tax on everything except groceries and gas would be even better. Then we could just get rid of the IRS altogether..

No matter what the solution, as long as government spending doesn't decrease, no solution will be just...

FAIR TAX! Is all I care about when it comes to uncle sam and my money!

Implement the Fair Tax and make the nightmare that is the IRS disappear.

Cheers,
Walt

"Implement the Fair Tax and make the nightmare that is the IRS disappear."

And replaced with an enforcement arm not only concerned with deductible transactions, as it is now, but ALL transactions.