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sully

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"So you are okay with despotic regimes slaughtering their people. Got it."

What a stupid strawman. Sometimes bad things happen and spreading guns around and dropping bombs on people is not going to improve the situation, as proven in Libya. Sheesh.

"If you want to conduct diplomacy, sometimes you have to send diplomats to dangerous places. This is nothing new or unusual."

It IS unusual for us to be so incompetent as to get ambassadors killed under easily predictable circumstances. You can pretentions to the contrary have a problem called Reality.

"Get used to disappointment. The fact is, she broke no laws and did nothing unethical. Even if the US' Libya policy is a failure (and you have far from shown anything like this) she did not set that policy and can hardly be blamed for its outcomes"

I didn't accuse her or breaking laws. I said she was do dumb that her incompetence got those people killed. And an ethical person would not want to put in that situation again after proving to be dangerously inept.

"I didn't call you names (but you seem quick to resort to that tactic). I called your comments what they are: inane yammerings, quite besides the point."

What a crybaby. "Inane yammering" was an insult. I responded in kind. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

"No, your inability to show anything to see AFTER A YEAR OF TRYING makes me right."

I laid it all out for you in detail above. I said what we were doing was stupid and would blow back on us before it happened. Then it happened. Actually events prove me 100% right. You don't get to make up your own facts. The scandal in Bengazzi is that our government's Liibya policy was so stupid and naive that it got people killed.

"I suppose allowing the old regime to massacre the people was a better option?"

Staying out of it when there is not good option is the best choice. Its not as if we don't have blood on our hands. We dropped bombs on Tripoli. We are responsible for the country being a hellhole for who knows how many years to come. Don't get mealy mouthed on me now.

"Always a risk when one starts handing out weapons."

So don't do it. Problem solved. And in this case, let's not pretend otherwise: We knew that weapons that we were sending over there were going into the hands of extremists.

"Why? The US has been doing this for years. AQ is all over the region. If you want to conduct diplomacy, it is common practice to send diplomats to the people you want to talk to."

This indicates to me that you don't understand the situation in Benghazi prior to the attack. Its not as if there was an undercover cell. Or a camp out in the wilderness. There were all over the city. Not just them but Salafists and other kinds of crazies too. That might be normal in some areas of Yemen and Somalia but its not the norm in the region. And it is stupid to send a small # of Americans to any city where this is true.

"She expressed that as the Secretary of State , she was responsible for those of her staff who died on her watch. I am not sure what else you feel entitled to."

Stay out of government forever. She's dangerously stupid. We'll see how "responsible" she claims to be in 2016. Somehow I don't think she's going to admit that she got those people killed by being dumb.

"Anyway, your inane yammering a are quite beside the point. The fact that there are discussions to be had about the US' Libya policy does not make Benghazi a scandal."

Oh please. A vapid aplogist calling me names means nothing to me. You've been wrong to support this all along and screeching "nothing to see here" isn't going to make you right. These people died beacuse our govenrment made very stupid, predictable mistakes and your excuse making can't change that.

"Sully,

It was a CIA mission more than just a diplomatic one. You know this."

So what? It was still stupid to put anyone in that position and it was avoidable..

"I still haven't seen the militias in Libya being concerned with global jihad, they're solely interested in controlling and shaping their own country in an Islamic image suitable to their beliefs. That doesn't mean individuals in these groups aren't aligned with AQ, but that wasn't a pressing issue in 2012."

But if you put Americans in the midst of such extremists, you know that they are a target. Whehter or not they had global aspirations is irrelevant because we put these people right on their doorstep.

"Whether the US should have been involved is arguable and now stands objectively indefensible because of what actually happened."

Of course. But it was entirely predictable too.

"But no one knew then, or could have predicted precisely what would have happened without our input regardless."

Kadaffi was 76 years old. We know he was going to die soon enough without our destablizing the country.

"You're cocksure of the answers but history often shows us we're prone to asking the wrong questions because little is knowable or predictable in situations like these. It's not the first time we've been wrong and it won't be the last."

I'm certainly not going to fault myself speaking my mind and then being proven correct by subsequent events. At least I have a reason to be "cocksure" unlike all of you who were 100% wrong and still want to defend the actions that were taken even after they've been proven wrong.

"The US Benghazi staff were doing things that remain classified and the GOP knows this because all of this was disclosed to committee members in closed-door testimony. Benghazi never was and still isn't the only US field office in an unstable, incendiary environment. The people there knew this and that is what they signed-on to. No one in their right mind should have expected complete security in the middle of a war-torn country trying to build itself back up without a standing military or a dependable law enforcement apparatus, teeming with heavily armed militias chock full of weaponry, but this is what people and countries do as they try to make a bad situation better. It doesn't work all the time, but I damn sure won't criticize anyone for trying just because what was done failed."

They were heavily armed because we armed them. I don't know exactly what the CIA was up to but its reasonable to assume that the operation would not have been "necessary" if not for the bad decisions we made in Libya every step of the way.

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