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salamandagator

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"See, it's right there in your language.
People made the bad choices to take out loans they can't handle."

Yup, people do this.
"What about the creditor that made that loan? They have the law to insulate them from the economic fallout of their bad decisions."

Or in reality they have to expend capital to recoup and/or carry the bad debt. but i guess you see them eating the debt as a law protecting them?
I'd love to see the law that repaid them for when people did not pay them back. Can you find it? I'm sure they would love to see it as well.

"People will end up paying multiples of the loan's face value and you think that's good. It's not. It perpetuates the cycle of poverty when poor people have to pay more for the same goods and services as rich people. "

If they choose to use the loan they agree to pay the interest. Yes you will pay much more than a house is worth in your mortgage based on interest but you are also getting to live there at the same time so it's not even lost. If you are trying to tell me that people paying many times the face value on credit cards is the fault of the creditor you are just plain insane.

"Credit has become a financial instrument of oppression."
Than do not use it. It is that simple, it cannot be oppression if it is voluntary. That is sort of one of the key bits about oppression, if you can opt out its no oppression.

"Who do you think has to put down a deposit to start electric service when they move to a new address, a rich person or a poor person?"
most unless you can prove you are not a risk and you get that back so what is your point?

It amazes me that someone can actually think that offering credit is keeping people down. Yes some people are stupid with it and can hurt themselves, just like a care or the ability to walk, that does not make it bad or "oppressive". And no, just because you are poor does not mean you are the victim, that is the thinking of the lazy and the thieves.

92 Bwahaha.

See what happens?
Equal work just goes away because no honest person makes the claim the pay gap is for equal work.

And it's okay to lie about abolishing them cause change is the same thing. I mean definitions don't matter right?

Verizon lost money in those years.

m.huffpost.com

And deferred taxes are still owed and paid. That sanders convinces anyone that they can just defer taxes and they go away is really sad. You can defer your taxes too. The funny bit is the dishonest people that make claims like they deferred so did not pay do not include payments on taxes from previous years deferralsince.

Yes schooled, sure thing. Now do you have even a single lie I pointed out that you can disprove or was that pathetic offering the best you have?

"Interesting how you chose to ignore a number of relevant examples."

Well to be fair every time this is brought out i try to get things started by naming two of the biggest examples. Those are the ACA and eminent domain.
Usually it is in the context of the rich owning the government and rigging the system that way but that context is not necessary here. So lets take a look.

Labor union suppression. This is sort of a complex issue.
First you have the company itself crushing attempts to unionize. This is not redistribution nor the rich stealing from the poor. this is often just a company refusing to pay above market value for work. I cannot consider right to work states as the rich stealing either, first because it really is protecting the worker as it only prohibits the company from making a pact with the other rich entity, the union. Closed shop hurts workers.

Raiding pensions.
This one i can give you, obviously not a government thing but there have been some companies that did not follow through with their agreement. Typically they would be held liable in court unless they had to declare bankruptcy. During the recession that became a bit more common than i could claim as being a very rare thing. I do not believe moving to a 401k plan is raiding pensions.
But sure, some companies have taken from the pensions to stay afloat. I do not know the specifics on how many large profitable companies did this but i know that a few did.

"ACA working for insurance industry."
Without a doubt the ACA is bad for the poor and does not hurt the rich.
But like i said before this is one of the few examples.

"Sports Stadiums."
Sports stadiums pay for themselves in tax revenue and as a public attraction. This is not redistribution nor is it the rich taking from the poor. If it were a politician pushing it they would call it a jobs program but really it's just a public works project.

Charter schools.
Im not sure what you are getting at here.
It is mostly property taxes that fund those programs o which the largest portion is paid by the wealthy and they are available to everyone that lives in places that run those programs.

"Tax incentives to attract business.. ..at the expense of smaller business and local social support systems."
Again this is a public good. Those incentives are part of the protection from our tax system which has some of the very highest corporate tax rates in the world(third marginal to be precise) which is 15% higher than the average effective rate for developed countries. And this is to bring in people to the area, the growth of the city raises property values adds, jobs, infrastructure and taxable income. This is of great benefit to the lower incomes at a rate that is substantially higher than to the company itself.

"Executive compensation, set by appointed Boards of Directors."
You are not stealing to pay some guy crazy amounts of money. Did they reach into anyone's wallet or bank account to pay for that or did it come out of their profits?
It would be absurd to think that is stealing from the poor unless you would also consider the 25 cent an hour raise by the guy in the cubicle next to you stealing from you.

See, there just is not much even when you remove the government requirement from the discussion. It is not a rigged economy, the rich do not steal from the poor in any meaningful way. And the rich fund the poor in far, far greater amounts than anyone could claim they take from them.

I do appreciate your attempts though. Seriously, you gave a fine example that was not one of the ones i thought of myself.
The usual suspects have so far come up with a 1920's baseball law that turns out did not do what they thought and the extension of our copyright laws to be closer to what the rest of the world has.

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