Good. Choosing to raise a kid with Down syndrome is selfish, especially if the woman is over age 42 and still trying to pop out natural kids.

fuck you Lucy.. people like you are Irresponsible. I am sorry that you have to have a downs syndrome child all by your lonesome but dont expect someone else to carry that burden in todays society especially if the means exists to negate the possibility..

I'm rather shocked by the first couple of posts.

I'm rather shocked by the first couple of posts.
Yea, they are rather negative.

At least now parent's have the choice of raising that child, or trying again for one without down's syndrome. It's better to get an abortion then to have a kid you don't want.

I'm rather shocked by the first couple of posts.

It's a harsh position, I know, but there is no reason to produce a child that will be a chronic burden if you can avoid it. Also, like I said, a woman over age 42 has something like a 1 in 30 chance of having a Down baby. If she does have one, and then whines to everyone else about it, I really have no sympathy.

It's better to get an abortion then to have a kid you don't want.

Exactly.

Children and adults with Down Syndrome are a blessing. I've worked with both for years and can say it's been an amazing experience in my life.

I see it as one step closer to Gattica.

wow if homosexuality is genetical and they find a test to test for it....will the homosexuals all of a sudden become pro life when parents start aborting fetuses cause they might be gay?

Gattaca

Children and adults with Down Syndrome are a blessing. I've worked with both for years and can say it's been an amazing experience in my life.

Posted by BlueOrange

Yes, they're a blessing because they keep people like you employed. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say they're a burden.

Sniper, I'm a bit shocked myself. "Fuck you, Lucy?" Man, that's cold.

I'm generally in favor of a woman's right to choose, but wow. My kid's school has a fairly large number of Down's syndrome kids, and they have a lot to offer the world. From everything I can see, their parents are as loving, proud and involved as any other parents. My daughter (first grade) doesn't see these kids as "retarded" or "incapable," just different. Not a bad place to be, in my opinion.

These people aren't pushing their beliefs on anyone. They're offering to open up to and spend time with other families who are making (for some) a difficult decision. And that deserves spite?

FUCK THAT OLD LADY WHO FEEDS THE HOMELESS. FUCK HER IN THE ASS.

That's exactly what you sound like.

Children and adults with Down Syndrome are a blessing.

Does this not also apply to cystic fibrosis? Or leukemia? How about spina bifida?

What makes Down so special? People think Down syndrome and they think of Corky from "Life Goes On." In reality, Down syndrome is no more "special" than any other birth defect with lifelong sequelae.

Some people with Down syndrome function at a high level with a measure of independence and quality of life.

This is a very complex issue, but I don't think it's selfish of these parents to want that message to be conveyed to prospective parents after a positive Down test.

A close relative of mine went through a tough time when a prenatal test detected a possibility of severe abnormalities. It was a false alarm, thankfully, but it underscored the difficult decision faced here by any parent.

I've learned enough about Down syndrome that I would not choose abortion because it was detected in the womb. But I would not force that choice on others.

My kid's school has a fairly large number of Down's syndrome kids, and they have a lot to offer the world.

Like what?

FUCK THAT OLD LADY WHO FEEDS THE HOMELESS. FUCK HER IN THE ASS.

That's exactly what you sound like.

If she's offering her services as an adoptive parent for kids born with it, fine.

Personally, I'd prefer my kids to be born as healthy as possible.

wow if homosexuality is genetical and they find a test to test for it....will the homosexuals all of a sudden become pro life when parents start aborting fetuses cause they might be gay?

I can imagine a parent not minding having a gay kid before not minding having a Down kid.

Does this not also apply to cystic fibrosis? Or leukemia? How about spina bifida?

You're honestly comparing Down syndrome to spina bifida? Do you not know anybody with the syndrome?

Personally, I'd prefer my kids to be born as healthy as possible.

----

I think most if not all would. That's not the point. The question is what would you do if that was not the case.

My brother is an alcoholic, mildly schizophrenic, and has epilepsy. He's definately been a burden. He has no job and cannot support himself at 35 years of age. From the sounds of some people of this board, he should have been aborted too.

Do you not know anybody with the syndrome?

Of course I do, both of my parents are/were in special education. I just get tired of people making it sound like Down syndrome kids are some sort of miracle as opposed to all the other birth defects.

And by the way, spina bifida also has varying levels of severity, but people never seem to remember that. I guess having your spinal cord sticking out of your back just isn't as "cute" as having a mongoloid child.

A burder to whom? Do you have a mentally impaired child in your family? Do you take care of anyone with Downs Syndrome? I'm guessing your only exposure is pointing them out at McDonalds and staring.

"...people like you..." Nice, you my friend, are an idiot.

From the sounds of some people of this board, he should have been aborted too.

If he had been, how could you have any feelings about him? Think Zen, now...

My brother is an alcoholic, mildly schizophrenic, and has epilepsy. He's definately been a burden. He has no job and cannot support himself at 35 years of age. From the sounds of some people of this board, he should have been aborted too.

Only if your parents weren't willing to take on that burden. If they would not properly take care of him because he was a bigger burden then a normal child, then they should not have had him. It seems that they can and are taking care of him however, so I personally am not saying he should have been aborted.

My kid's school has a fairly large number of Down's syndrome kids, and they have a lot to offer the world.

Like what?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-05-09 09:42 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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Well, Ness, what would I say that would satisfy you? What does anyone have to offer the world? It's all relative.

I'll just say this. There's a Down syndrome kid a couple of doors away from me. She rides a bike. She plays with the other neighborhood kids. She's cute and friendly and reasonably self-sufficient. She's moving from grade to grade (at a school that is consistently ranked among the highest-achieving in the state), and one day I can imagine her living on her own, with a job. No, not as a surgeon, but certainly somewhere.

Many people with Down syndrome have only mild mental retardation and can function pretty well.

Free your mind.

If my brother had been aborted, my life would be radically different.

I would not have met my best friend through my brother which in turn, I would have not moved 1000 miles away from where I grew up which in turn, I would have not met my wonderful wife, which in turn, I would not have a wonderful son.

Man this thread is filled with some callous, cold-hearted shit.


The lack of value that some place on a human life is mind-boggling.

Pirate-
Something else would have happened instead, and you would either be just as happy, less happy, or even happier. Really doesn't matter. "Life Goes On."

Of course I do, both of my parents are/were in special education. I just get tired of people making it sound like Down syndrome kids are some sort of miracle as opposed to all the other birth defects.

Do you expect to hear any parent to admit that having kids can be a huge burden and often a pain in the ass? That would be like my wife telling me that size matters.

Or less happy or very miserable.

Man this thread is filled with some callous, cold-hearted shit.

You'd never consider aborting a child because of prenatal tests that detected a severe problem?

You'd never consider aborting a child because of prenatal tests that detected a severe problem?


No, I wouldn't.

The lack of value that some place on a human life is mind-boggling.

I value human life just as much as I value all life.

This is coming from a guy who avoids stepping on ants on the sidewalk. Still, I think it's a totally valid choice to abort a kid with Down or any other potentially debilitating genetic disease.

Do you expect to hear any parent to admit that having kids can be a huge burden and often a pain in the ass?


Raising kids is a colossal burden and is often a tremendous pain in the ass.

Or less happy or very miserable.

I said that. My point is, you can't know. Your argument is kinda pointless. No offense.

Many people with Down syndrome have only mild mental retardation and can function pretty well.


You can't know until the kid is born. I'm not one to take risks with other people's lives.

No, I wouldn't.

Well, luckily for you a lot of kids with really bad problems abort themselves.

Raising kids is a colossal burden and is often a tremendous pain in the ass.

So why make it harder on both yourself and your kid?

Raising kids is a colossal burden and is often a tremendous pain in the ass.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-05-09 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
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You've noticed that too? I thought I was the only one!
:-)

That would be like my wife telling me that size matters.

She only uses that line in the sex personals.

Children and adults with Down Syndrome are a blessing.

Does this not also apply to cystic fibrosis? Or leukemia? How about spina bifida?

What makes Down so special? People think Down syndrome and they think of Corky from "Life Goes On." In reality, Down syndrome is no more "special" than any other birth defect with lifelong sequelae.

Posted by ness_gadol

damn right..The agenda here is self serving. These people dont want to be the last ones caring for a downs child especially when the means exists to not have one. I agree with Ness..have them younger or abort the non viable ones.

So why make it harder on both yourself and your kid?


It's an impossible question to answer from a frame of reference that you can understand.

If you have a child of your own some day, you'll discover the answer for yourself.


PS - I am not trying to be snide, some things just have to be experienced in order to be understood.

A close relative of mine went through a tough time when a prenatal test detected a possibility of severe abnormalities. It was a false alarm, thankfully, but it underscored the difficult decision faced here by any parent.

I've learned enough about Down syndrome that I would not choose abortion because it was detected in the womb. But I would not force that choice on others.

Posted by rcade

sorry rcade.. I look at it as a social burden especially when it doesn't have to happen. Want a life changing experience? Join the peace corp.

You'd never consider aborting a child because of prenatal tests that detected a severe problem?


No, I wouldn't.

Posted by JeffJ

THAT is socially irresponsible.. Jeff you bitch about the welfare mommas and people taking money from the government for school and other social programs but YOU in turn would be at the trough raising a child with a severe medical condition. teh only way you wouldn't would be if you had untold millions to support your choice.

Kettle meet pot.

I look at it as a social burden especially when it doesn't have to happen.

Down syndrome isn't passed down from parent to child. It will still occur in the future regardless of how many people aren't having Down kids.

I think both absolute positions are wrong here.

but it underscored the difficult decision faced here by any parent.

I bet it wasn't a difficult decision to get pregnant in the first place...what's stopping them from doing it again? (no pun intended)

THAT is socially irresponsible


What is socially irresponsible about raising a child with birth defects?


How far do you want to take this, Leggo?

Old people can become a burden too. Should we practice Euthenasia to reduce the cost?

At what point is one considered a 'burden'?



You are teetering on a VERY slippery slope, my friend.

It will still occur in the future regardless of how many people aren't having Down kids.


This is true, unless of course you make screening and elimination mandatory. That would never fly anytime soon, but eventually I expect that to be the case with any prenatal diagnosis. Unfortunately, if we can't get already born people to eat healthy and get enough exercise to avoid obesity and diabetes, I doubt people will be convinced that there is a species-wide benefit to reducing the incidence of diseased births.

What is socially irresponsible about raising a child with birth defects?

Asking others for money to do it.

I bet it wasn't a difficult decision to get pregnant in the first place


I have an aunt and uncle that wanted 2 kids. The problem was that my aunt had fertility problems. She did manage to get pregnant twice, although her second child resulted in a miscarriage. Nevertheless, they are thankful for the one child they have.

Old people can become a burden too. Should we practice Euthenasia to reduce the cost?

Eskimos do.

I have an aunt and uncle that wanted 2 kids. The problem was that my aunt had fertility problems.

ADOPT

Eskimos do.


Are you suggesting that we implement euthenasia into our society?

Why stop there?

Why not create a perfect Aryan race?

look at it as a social burden especially when it doesn't have to happen.

Down syndrome isn't passed down from parent to child. It will still occur in the future regardless of how many people aren't having Down kids.

I think both absolute positions are wrong here.

Posted by rcade

huh?

and the test to detect it exists to PREVENT it from occuring. From the journals I have read, it hasn't been conclusively documented that the gene is not inherited. I would suspect it is..

The human genome project WILL be able to determine if prediposition for producing downs children can occur with some probability. Any rate the probability of downs increases with age due to mutations in the germ cell.

YOU can choose what you want to do with your life, but when society at large is burdened with costs associated with it your freedoms and choices will be limited.

Your freedoms stop where mine begin...

Are you suggesting that we implement euthenasia into our society?

It is a valid option.

Why not create a perfect Aryan race?

I would hope that at some point in the future, we will have cured most if not all disease. What's wrong with that?

Old people can become a burden too. Should we practice Euthenasia to reduce the cost?

At what point is one considered a 'burden'?



You are teetering on a VERY slippery slope, my friend.

Posted by JeffJ
not teetering on anything here..this is preventable (for the most part) by a simple test which in turn prevents a burden on society as a whole and the parents in general. The discussion never included widescale involuntary euthanasia and that is just a nice red herring.

I bet it wasn't a difficult decision to get pregnant in the first place...what's stopping them from doing it again? (no pun intended)

Their child is healthy. The prenatal problems were presented as unlikely (perhaps even remote). The risk they took by continuing the pregnancy with additional prenatal care was low.

This is true, unless of course you make screening and elimination mandatory. That would never fly anytime soon, but eventually I expect that to be the case with any prenatal diagnosis.

Why stop there? I want a government that won't let children reach birth unless they have super strength and night vision.

I don't want to live in a world where Uncle Sam controls pregnancy, Ness. That's why I'm pro-choice.

Ha! New Thread fer Spud!

"I think both absolute positions are wrong here."

They usually are.

To Spud this is a simple question of choices.

Until this year, only pregnant women 35 and older were routinely tested to see if their fetuses had the extra chromosome that causes Down syndrome. As a result many couples were given the diagnosis only at birth. But under a new recommendation from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, doctors have begun to offer a new, safer screening procedure to all pregnant women, regardless of age.

I don't want to live in a world where Uncle Sam controls pregnancy, Ness. That's why I'm pro-choice.

Posted by rcade

well its coming to a country near you once people inpower figure out that healthcare is a huge controllable variable to GDP [see (C) in the formula]. Preventable diseases and eating healthy will become norm quite possibly by law.

The discussion never included widescale involuntary euthanasia and that is just a nice red herring.


Not at all.


You are defining a 'burden' to society based upon a set of physical characteristics. You then advocate destruction of developing life based upon those characteristics.

If people develop those characteristics later in life, why not advocate their destruction as well - for the betterment of society?

I want a government that won't let children reach birth unless they have super strength and night vision.

It will be beneficial to our species to limit the occurrence of birth defects. Period.

If people develop those characteristics later in life, why not advocate their destruction as well

Be more specific.

It will be beneficial to our species to limit the occurrence of birth defects. Period.


Viewed solely through the prism of biology - yes. Viewed through a prism of humanity - no.


Be more specific.


Where one's health declines to a point of requiring assisted care - nursing home, etc.

Or, if one suffers an accident which leaves them paralyzed, etc.

will the homosexuals all of a sudden become pro life when parents start aborting fetuses cause they might be gay?

Bigger question, would the talibaptists be pro-abortion if it meant wiping out gays?

"Ms. Scott, 55, was born with Down syndrome but is slowly dying from Alzheimer's disease, a progressive, degenerative illness that is destroying her brain. The two conditions are tragically linked; most people with Down syndrome are afflicted with Alzheimer's in middle age, and their final years are marked by a profound intellectual, emotional and physical decline.

Ms. Scott used to love travelling, singing and all things Scottish, including the Highland fling. Now she hates leaving home and spends her days sleeping and wandering in circles.

The culprit appears to be chromosome 21. Most people with Down syndrome have an extra copy, and it carries the instructions for a protein believed to play an important role in Alzheimer's. That extra chromosome shaped their brains and their bodies in the womb, and now it is shaping their final years, robbing them of the skills they worked so hard to learn, along with their memories and their personalities.

In 1920, a baby with Down syndrome was expected to live only nine years. Improved medical care including cardiac surgery and better antibiotics means individuals with the syndrome are living much longer, to 55 or more.

But studies show that by 40 their brains are becoming clogged by the plaques and tangles characteristic of Alzheimer's. By 65, three-quarters of them have dementia, Dr. Schupf says. That compares with roughly one in 10 people over 65 in the general population.
"

I wonder how many parents still consider their child a blessing when they have to deal with this too.

Natural selection in humans, especially in America, has really been on a rapid decline in my opinion from the last 60 years due to improvments in medicine. While severe birth defects, I consider Downs's in this group, should be aborted in my opinion the problem is future selection for abortion will be sure to eventually include gender, sex orientation, height, eye color, beauty and on and on as Americans, in general, have become very competitive and narcissistic in recent years. "I want the best, now"

The funny thing is in a few years Evangelical Christians will be actively fighting for the lives of Gays and Lesbians to be included in society.

There is an interesting possibility that abortions for "aesthetic" reasons may be the lead to abortion being banned in the US.

This is all about choice, folks.

For a fetus, it's the choice of the actual human being the fetus is in.

In the case of a human adult or senior, it is the choice of that person only.

Sorry to see that there are some who appear (and I may be misreading their statements. If so, please let me know) to be advocating mandated abrotion of DS kids or euthenising sick adults/seniors.

Viewed solely through the prism of biology - yes. Viewed through a prism of humanity - no.


Tell me how humanity benefits from birth defects.

It will be beneficial to our species to limit the occurrence of birth defects. Period.

How does it benefit our species to limit non-hereditary birth defects? We could abort 100 percent of Down kids today, and in 100 years when the sea levels rise and the world descends to post-civilization Road Warrior anarchy, they'll be having them again.

How does it benefit our species to limit non-hereditary birth defects? We could abort 100 percent of Down kids today, and in 100 years when the sea levels rise and the world descends to post-civilization Road Warrior anarchy, they'll be having them again.

Yes, but at that point, they'll all dress in black leather with football shoulderpads and have wierd, mohawk-like haircuts.

and in 100 years when the sea levels rise and the world descends to post-civilization Road Warrior anarchy, they'll be having them again.

And still aborting them.

Nah, I know what you mean, RCade. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see any real reason why anyone would choose to have a kid that they know will have a less than desirable life.

However, How does it benefit our species to limit non-hereditary birth defects?

Restricting natural childbirth after the age of 40 would cut down on Down syndrome.

Not at all

jeffJ

yes it is.. continue to climb for the moral high ground..

It will be beneficial to our species to limit the occurrence of birth defects. Period.

How does it benefit our species to limit non-hereditary birth defects? We could abort 100 percent of Down kids today, and in 100 years when the sea levels rise and the world descends to post-civilization Road Warrior anarchy, they'll be having them again.

Posted by rcade

You keep bringing this up but ignoring the so called chormosome 21 issue that is linked to downs and alzheimers. Granted environmental factors and age may play a role in gene mutations that also may cause birth defects, but if they are preventable I believe them to be in the best interest of society at large to prevent them. If a simple test is all that is needed (should be mandatory) and the choice to have the child proceeds, the parents should abrogate any and all federal/state aid.

and if in 100 years you have the abherent downs kid in a tribe then that is beyond my control. Guaranteed that child will not live long in a darwin type world.

NO!

People with Down Syndrome are hilarious.

Nah, I know what you mean, RCade. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see any real reason why anyone would choose to have a kid that they know will have a less than desirable life.

Posted by ness_gadol

I look at it as a selfish act on the part of the parents 99% of the time..They waited and waited and time is running out.

What is everyone so upset about. there not even alive so who cares if they are tested and aborted. its not like they are effecting a real child or a real life...jeez...

Signed,
The Compassionate Left...

And still aborting them.

You missed the point of the hypothetical. Like the entirety of humankind prior to the present generation of breeders, our future leather-clad survivalists won't know the Down kid is coming until he's here.

The lack of value that some place on a human life is mind-boggling.

Unless, of course, they're Iraqi, then they've got it coming. Just consider any aborted Downs fetuses as collateral damage on the war on terrible diseases, and it'll be fine.

Like the entirety of humankind prior to the present generation of breeders, our future leather-clad survivalists won't know the Down kid is coming until he's here.

They used to just let them die. Seems like a reasonable solution, given your hypothetical.

NG3,

Nobody has ever said that the lives of Iraqi people have no value.

Do you seriously think the US intention is to just kill them all. Come on, regardless of the acts of a few I still feel American's are significantly better than that..

It should be considered that a great number of Downs syndrome folks do not live with family, are shipped off to institutions or group homes to watch TV for the rest of their lives. The condition does not only bring on retardation but other problems which can be painful and further limit their ability to enjoy their lives. Personally, if I knew I was carrying a Downs Syndrome fetus I would abort it and to hell with any of the holier than thou folks who would criticize me for it.
I really don't care what they think about it, they aren't going to have to raise that child or watch him/her suffer.
They can choose to do what they feel is best and hopefully will never get the power to prevent the rest of us from doing the same thing.

Army: Check some of the Iraqi postings. Haditha was a good thing, WP is a good thing in civilian areas and so on. Many of the Bushie posters here seem to think dead Iraqis are indeed a good thing.

Then they need to be checked for mental stability. Honest and descent Americans, IMHO, believe that those things are wrong.

Like I said before, the actions of few should not be the prevailing view of the mass.

I think everyone is overlooking the real reason these parents don't want DS fetuses aborted.

Is it because DS children are a treasure? NO.

Is it because DS is easy to deal with? NO.

The parent evangelists are driven by a deep-seated fear for their children's well-being in a world where there are fewer people like them.

Others admit freely to a selfish motive for their new activism. "If all these people terminate babies with Down syndrome, there won't be programs, there won't be acceptance or tolerance," said Tracy Brown, 37, of Seattle, whose 2-year-old son, Maxford, has the condition. "I want opportunities for my son. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but I do."

Self-interest.

"There are many couples who do not want to have a baby with Down syndrome," said Deborah A. Driscoll, chief of the obstetrics department at the University of Pennsylvania and a lead author of the new recommendation from the obstetricians' group. "They don't have the resources, don't have the emotional stamina, don't have the family support. We are recommending this testing be offered so that parents have a choice."

For myself, kids are hard enough to raise without the added problems that DS create. If the test had been available when I was having kids, and had the test been positive, I would have chosen to abort the child.

BUT, that is my choice, and I don't think that should be pushed onto another parent who may have the emotional strength and ability to care for a special needs child.

It comes down to CHOICE.

Legio,

You keep bringing this up but ignoring the so called chormosome 21 issue that is linked to downs and alzheimers.

Translocational Trisonomy 21 (the genetic kind) accounts for a small percentage of Downes Syndrome victems. A vast majority of these people have Trisonomy 21 due to random mistakes occuring during formation of the chromosomes.

"Down syndrome isnt passed down from parent to child." -RCade

Correction: Down Syndrome cases have been seen as a genetic aberration that IS hereditary, caused by translocation. Further, this incidence is not associated with maternal age and the risk is substantially lower. Approximately 1 in 5 if the mother is the carrier & 1 in 20 if the carrier is the father.

-MsChris

"a common occurence in the ancient world"


THIS IS SPARTA!!

Legio,


The full complement of human chromosomes is 46. If a child is diagnosed with Trisonomy 21/Down Syndrome, in lay terms this just simply means, there is the presence of a extra chromosome.

Further...

The test utilized to evaluate congenital anomalies, mental retardation, and serious congenital diseases such as DS is called a Chromosome Karyotype Test.

-MsChris

I would much rather have a down syndrome Kid than a snot nosed punk assed heathan. Seems to Me the ones with special needs/Hanidcaps are where You will find the Godly kind of Love everyone should have. They never take ANYTHING for granted like "Normal" folks do. PLUS they appreciate what they can do and strive extra hard to try and do what they can't. This is tantamount to Doing what Adolph Hitler did and developing a "Master Race" of nothing but Perfect children. This is Bullshit of the HIGHEST order. Utter and complete Balderdash.

Larry

My daughter (first grade) doesn't see these kids as "retarded" or "incapable," just different. Not a bad place to be, in my opinion.

Posted by cbob at 2007-05-09 09:40 AM

Different in a special kind of retarded incabable way. Ahh, look at how cute he is, he can almost tie his shoes! That's adorable! (for a 25 year old)

Legio,

My assertion is this isn't random at all

And in most cases, you're wrong.

I read the article and I still have a question:

Does this test tell you that your baby will DEFINITELY be born with down syndrome or that there is just a chance that it may occur?

Commonsense---use some

Commonsense,

Just a chance not a gaurantee.

DragonLady,

Self interest is the only reason humans acomplish anything are you saying it's bad?


To everyone.

I'm really considering just leaving the blog. Acording to almost everyone here I should not have been born and just aborted. Lets see I was adopted so that is strike one why did mama give me up for adoption she should have just stuck a needle in my head. I have MS well damn I'm older now but I will be a "burden" on society in a few years so I probably ought to save everyone the trouble and just slit my wrist now.

I won't even get into my adopted son I know you all think he should have been snuffed too.

Yet you wonder why everyone hates the Republicans and the Dems still can't win the white house?

My daughter (first grade) doesn't see these kids as "retarded" or "incapable," just different. Not a bad place to be, in my opinion.

Posted by cbob at 2007-05-09 09:40 AM

Different in a special kind of retarded incabable way. Ahh, look at how cute he is, he can almost tie his shoes! That's adorable! (for a 25 year old)

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2007-05-09 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
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For your sake I hope you are never in a situation in which you are in need of compassion, since you show none yourself.

Tao,


I guess I'd better slit my wrist too, I've got a beer gut and I found a gray hair this morning.


My 2 boys are perfectly healthy, but they may, at some point, become a burden. I guess I should take them out to the woodshed and shoot them now so that society can be spared later.


And to address Legio's point regarding a burden - spending money to preserve life is money well-spent IMO.

"Self interest is the only reason humans acomplish anything are you saying it's bad?"

Nonsense. People frequently act against their self-interests. That's one reason economic models based on that premise generate lousy forecasts so often.

People frequently act against their self-interests.


True, some people vote Democrat.

"True, some people vote Democrat."

Actually, no, they don't.

Hans

Legio,

My assertion is this isn't random at all

And in most cases, you're wrong.

Posted by Pleasantville

And you conclude this with what data einstein? Just because YOU believe it to be so doesn't prop up your misguided assertion.. and btw dickhead you can't prove me wrong either.

"Just a chance not a gaurantee."

How do you figure? If it's a karyotype test (which in my understanding it is) there either is or isn't an extra copy of chromosome 21.

And to address Legio's point regarding a burden - spending money to preserve life is money well-spent IMO.

Posted by JeffJ

And I dont give a shit what you do with YOUR own money as long as it doesn't cost me or society coin.

If you want spend your lifelong savings on having the worlds largest party watching a one legged whore have sex with an elephant ..super duper..dont send me the bill


The moral PC police here are quick to try and turn this into you must hate babies and old people argument but the simple fact remains that a simple test (in most cases) can help prevent medical and societal burden for a lot of genetic burdens.. being irresponsible is not an excuse.

The moral PC police here are quick to try and turn this into you must hate babies and old people argument

The old people thing was simply applying your underlying premise to a different demographic. It has nothing to do with 'hatred', as I don't believe that you hate babies, or old people.


Am I to assume you are against ALL government assistance (Medicare, unemployment, etc), based on this:

And I dont give a shit what you do with YOUR own money as long as it doesn't cost me or society coin.



the simple fact remains that a simple test (in most cases) can help prevent medical and societal burden for a lot of genetic burdens.. being irresponsible is not an excuse.


It's not a matter of irresponsibility. It's simply a matter of placing a high value on human life; a value that transcends money.


I don't view mental retardation or physical deformity as a good excuse to terminate a life. Obviously you see it differently. Perhaps we should agree to disagree.

"It's simply a matter of placing a high value on human life; a value that transcends money."

Time and again humans have shown, through their actions, that value of human life is sometimes very, very cheap.

The sad part is that money ("a value that transcends money") is often times the very reason why the value of human life is so cheap.

Hans

Here we go again.

I Do NOT fear Science.

I stand with Right of Choice.

Oscar,


How do you feel about compelling someone to have an abortion, because their developing child will be a 'burden' on society?

Jeff - - does Right of Choice - - have an alternate meaning?

Oscar,

I wasn't assigning that position to you, I was asking how you felt about it.

because their developing child will be a 'burden' on society?

Let's rephrase that: how about if the child was going to be born HIV positive and runs the risk of infecting other children?

Let's rephrase that: how about if the child was going to be born HIV positive and runs the risk of infecting other children?


That's a pretty good question.

I still say it's not a valid reason to terminate a life. Using that premise we could justify killing everybody in the world that is an HIV carrier.

Let's rephrase that: how about if the child was going to be born HIV positive and runs the risk of infecting other children?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-05-09 04:58 PM | Reply

That is the typical thought process of someone Your age. Let's just get rid of the "Junk" in society. Let's just have Pure Babies whom are without blemish. Yeah that sounds just lovely. Oh I have some bad news for You Your baby will be born with (Insert some disease here) You want to abort or not?? Yes please I don't want a fucked up baby I want a perfect baby. Yeah that sends a great message to society. If You have something wrong with You You are a less than and should have been discarded at birth. Yeah what a lovely world You dream of.

Larry

Your baby will be born with (Insert some disease here) You want to abort or not??

Depends. Cleft lip? No, fixable. Asthma? No, treatable. Down syndrome, fetal alcohol syndrome, Tay Sachs(which is fatal in childhood anyway)? Yes, they are permanent.

Yeah what a lovely world You dream of.


A world where no children are forced to live lives at a serious disadvantage to everyone else? A world where kids who can be diagnosed with a fatal genetic disease can be aborted instead of having to be born knowing they will shortly die? What's so bad about that?

Using that premise we could justify killing everybody in the world that is an HIV carrier.

Now, I'm not advocating this, I just want your opinion:

If killing everyone who has AIDS tomorrow would permanently eradicate the virus, would it be worth it?

*HIV, not AIDS.

Good stuff, Larry.

You are justifying my decision to ask you to visit this thread.

A world where kids who can be diagnosed with a fatal genetic disease can be aborted instead of having to be born knowing they will shortly die? What's so bad about that?


It's not how long you live, but how you live that is important. My neighbor's kid has sistic fibrosis (sp?). He isn't expected to live very long. He started Kindergarten this year and is a happy, well-adjusted child.


If killing everyone who has AIDS tomorrow would permanently eradicate the virus, would it be worth it?

No.

I have a step sister with Downs Syndrome. My stepson has Fetal Alcohol Effects.

My step sister is a Blessing to us. She is always smiling, always wanting to help us, a very loving, happy woman.

We all have our disadvantages in one form or another. And I don't believe it's right to abort out of imperfection.

A world where no children are forced to live lives at a serious disadvantage to everyone else? A world where kids who can be diagnosed with a fatal genetic disease can be aborted instead of having to be born knowing they will shortly die? What's so bad about that?

Posted by ness_gadol at 2007-05-09 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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And deprive the world of the love that they can share?? I think not.

Larry

We all have our disadvantages in one form or another. And I don't believe it's right to abort out of imperfection.

Is being unwanted a disadvantage?

"Is being unwanted a disadvantage?"

Is this your defense for abortion? Being unwanted?

There are plenty of people in this country who want to adopt.

Abortion is NOT the answer!