Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, April 20, 2017

Vladimir Putin is seizing on mixed signals from the U.S. to quietly tighten Russia's grip on two rebel regions of Ukraine, burying hopes for a European-brokered peace deal and relief from sanctions anytime soon. While the Kremlin continues to publicly back the accord that Germany and France oversaw in 2015, Putin's real strategy in Ukraine is to fully separate the two border areas known as the Donbas through incremental integration with Russia, three people close to the leadership in Moscow said. He has no plans to recognize or annex the territories, they said. Russia has been moving gradually, using a blockade by Ukrainian activists as political cover to take over key economic links with the separatist zones.

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Last week, Russian Railways slashed rates for shipping coal and iron ore to points near the rebel areas, where the metals industry provides most jobs. That will allow Russia to replace Ukrainian supplies halted by Kiev and ensure that steel plants continue to function, according to two people in the industry. ...

President Donald Trump's administration, on the other hand, has sent mixed signals on its stance and even appears to be "totally uninterested" in the conflict, as one senior Russian diplomat put it. Trump has taken a tough line rhetorically, though he hasn't made his position clear and the White House seems focused on issues it considers more pressing like Syria and North Korea.

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Despite all the tough talk from Ambassador Haley at the United Nations, it appears that Pres Trump is allowing Pres Putin free reign in Ukraine.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-04-20 10:21 AM | Reply

Buying the presidency for Trump has it's benefits.

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2017-04-20 10:23 AM | Reply

US Waffles? More like capitulates.

Only the gullible believe Trump and the Russians aren't still friends.

#3 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-04-20 12:02 PM | Reply

Quid pro quo. You liars can pretend otherwise but that won't change the fact.

#4 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-20 12:19 PM | Reply

Can't wait for Nutcase to come along and tell us Putin is just protecting the Russians in Ukraine. Bunch of garbage. He's actually just trying to create a land bridge to Crimea, he doesn't care about the Russian people in Russia much less in Ukraine.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-20 12:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm sure once the DR Keyboard Warrior Brigade lands in Ukraine, Putin will back off.

#6 | Posted by Sully at 2017-04-20 12:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

He's actually just trying to create a land bridge to Crimea...

#5 | POSTED BY DANNI

Yep. Through in a few oil & gas pipelines and that's about right.

#7 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-04-20 04:41 PM | Reply

Throw

#8 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-04-20 04:50 PM | Reply


Waffles vs Dithers?

Rcade, care to comment?

#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-04-20 09:53 PM | Reply

You guys do realize that something like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-20 11:02 PM | Reply

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like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?

#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

And like 95% of the South wanted to be with the Confederate States of America. So?

#11 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-04-20 11:11 PM | Reply

"95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia"

Q: What do 9 out of 10 people enjoy?
.
.
.
.
A: Gang rape.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-21 12:00 AM | Reply

You guys do realize that something like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?

#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Actually it was about 65% of Crimea from one polling agency. Nationwide polls put it in the 30-40% range.

#13 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-04-21 12:30 AM | Reply

You guys do realize that something like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?

#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Can you honestly say with a straight face that you think that number is accurate?

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2017-04-21 12:34 AM | Reply

You guys do realize that something like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?

#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Oh I get it. You are referring to the Russian referendum held after they invaded and turned off all pro-Ukraine news, etc? Yes, VERY legit.

#15 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-04-21 12:36 AM | Reply

"You guys do realize that something like 95% of voters in Crimea wanted to be part of Russia, right?"

Utter nonsense only believed by those who are determined to make the U.S. the bad guy in a land grab by Putin. My daughter in law skypes her relatives in Ukraine almost every single day, they are all of the famous "Russian heritage" type of Ukrainians. They all hate Putin with a passion and considern him an invader. Anyone who tells you different is a liar. My son and his wife spent two weeks in Crimea just before the Russian invasion, they had a great time. There was absolutely no desire on anyone's part to become part of Russia. Of course though, when Russian soldiers invade and hold guns to your head you might say something different and that is what they did.

#16 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 05:43 AM | Reply

One thing is getting pretty clear, Madbomber is some sort of paid poster. He arrives at positions which are not really supportive of American values too easily. He is almost always on the exact opposite side of most issues from most Americans, I don't think he has an actual belief system because, like this last lie about 95% of the Crimean people, absolutely garbage that no one with half a brain would believe but he states it anyways. Something real wrong with his posts. Tokyo Rose?

#17 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 05:47 AM | Reply

"And like 95% of the South wanted to be with the Confederate States of America. So?"

I know, I know...who are they to have a say in the governance of their region. Stupid proles.

"Actually it was about 65% of Crimea from one polling agency. Nationwide polls put it in the 30-40% range."

Are you asserting that a majority, or even a sizeable minority of Crimeans would have preferred to remain as part of Ukraine? I haven't seen anything to suggest that.

What I do know is that Crimea was historically a part of Russia, up until the 1950s when it was given to Ukraine by the now defunct Soviet Union. So it's pretty disingenuous to pretend that there was no connective tissue between the Crimean region and Russia, or to assert that The Crimeans were somehow being forced to be part of Russia against their will.

"Can you honestly say with a straight face that you think that number is accurate?"

Do you have something better?

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:11 AM | Reply

"What I do know is that Crimea was historically a part of Russia, up until the 1950s when it was given to Ukraine by the now defunct Soviet Union."

Actually it was stolen from Ukrain by Catherine the Great, it is obviously geographically part of Ukraine. Russia has no land connection to it. They just want it for the purpose of naval bases. But why would anyone defend Russia on this land grab? Me thinks Madbomber has some explaining to do. Money? I wouldn't trust Madbomber to be a loyal American, he is as sold out as Trump.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:17 AM | Reply

"Utter nonsense only believed by those who are determined to make the U.S. the bad guy in a land grab by Putin. My daughter in law skypes her relatives in Ukraine almost every single day, they are all of the famous "Russian heritage" type of Ukrainians."

The Ukrainian street has always hated the Russians, and for good reason. The Soviets killed millions of Ukrainians during the holodomor. But Crimea was part of Russia until 1954, meaning that Crimeans were part of that group that the Ukrainians hated.

"He arrives at positions which are not really supportive of American values too easily."

It's just simple logic dude. By all accounts the vast majority of Crimeans want to be part of Russia. Who are you or I to say that they shouldn't.

#20 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:18 AM | Reply

"There was absolutely no desire on anyone's part to become part of Russia."

Forbes disagrees with you.

"One Year After Russia Annexed Crimea, Locals Prefer Moscow To Kiev:

The U.S and European Union may want to save Crimeans from themselves. But the Crimeans are happy right where they are.

One year after the annexation of the Ukrainian peninsula in the Black Sea, poll after poll shows that the locals there -- be they Ukrainians, ethnic Russians or Tatars are mostly all in agreement: life with Russia is better than life with Ukraine.

In June 2014, a Gallup poll with the Broadcasting Board of Governors asked Crimeans if the results in the March 16, 2014 referendum to secede reflected the views of the people. A total of 82.8% of Crimeans said yes. When broken down by ethnicity, 93.6% of ethnic Russians said they believed the vote to secede was legitimate, while 68.4% of Ukrainians felt so. Moreover, when asked if joining Russia will ultimately make life better for them and their family, 73.9% said yes while 5.5% said no."

www.forbes.com

You're full of ----...as usual.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:20 AM | Reply

"One thing is getting pretty clear, Madbomber is some sort of paid poster."

I wish, but no. I'm educating you for free.

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I wish, but no. I'm educating you for free."

No you're spreading Russian propaganda for free (you claim).

In Crimea, after the Russians took over there is no free speech and expressing anti-Russian opinions is punished by confiscation of homes, businesses, etc. Even thugs just killing you. You are full of crap. Russian propagandist. It's disgusting. Go back to Moscow.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:24 AM | Reply

"But why would anyone defend Russia on this land grab?"

Why wouldn't you defend that right of the vast majority of Crimeans to be part of Russia?

And my position would be no different is Crimea were part of Russia and the vast majority wanted to be part of Ukraine.

#24 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:24 AM | Reply

"Crimea's New Russian Overlords Are Seizing Thousands Of Businesses"

www.businessinsider.com

#25 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:25 AM | Reply

"In Crimea, after the Russians took over there is no free speech and expressing anti-Russian opinions is punished by confiscation of homes, businesses, etc. Even thugs just killing you. You are full of crap. Russian propagandist. It's disgusting. Go back to Moscow."

Are you equally bitter towards the 83% of Crimeans who would prefer to be part of Russia rather than Ukraine?

#26 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:26 AM | Reply

"And my position would be no different is Crimea were part of Russia and the vast majority wanted to be part of Ukraine."

You don't have a "position," you are just a propagandist trying to convince Americans of an untruth. You're a liar. I doubt you're even an American.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:27 AM | Reply

"Are you equally bitter towards the 83% of Crimeans who would prefer to be part of Russia rather than Ukraine?"

Funny thing, I don't trust polls held with guns to the heads of those being polled. But hey, that's just me. You lying thug.

#28 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:27 AM | Reply

How many Ukrainians are murdered by the Russians each day?

"The overall number of documented deaths in the War in Donbass, which started on 6 April 2014, has been put at 9,940, according to the UN body OCHA."

en.wikipedia.org

#29 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 09:29 AM | Reply

"You don't have a "position," you are just a propagandist trying to convince Americans of an untruth."

I could accuse you of the same. Only can provide substantive data supporting Crimeans support for Russian annexation, where as you can only hem and haw and handwring.

"How many Ukrainians are murdered by the Russians each day?"

less than 10k dead? The Russians must be getting soft. Back when they were socialists, the Russians killed between 7 and ten million Ukrainians between 1932-1933. That's more the 11k deaths per day.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 09:47 AM | Reply

"less than 10k dead? The Russians must be getting soft. Back when they were socialists, the Russians killed between 7 and ten million Ukrainians between 1932-1933. That's more the 11k deaths per day."

Oh ok, so it's ok for them to murder nearly 10,000 people. Got it.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 11:00 AM | Reply

@#17 | Posted by danni at 2017-04-21 05:47 AM
Well, while you are a conspiracy theorist, at least you're a consistent conspiracy theorist...

#32 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-04-21 11:26 AM | Reply

Forbes disagrees with you.

No, it doesn't. You linked to an opinion column that Forbes disclaims: "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own."

Forbes is like Huffington Post. It lets thousands of people write articles and columns and does not pay them.

Your claim that 95% of people in Crimea supported it being annexed by Russia is BS propaganda, and I bet you know it. There was a boycott of the vote by ethnic Ukrainians and Tatars.

In a country like Russia led by a dictator with little press freedom and frequent crackdowns on the opposition, asserting that a poll's results are the genuine beliefs of the people is a humongous stretch. A lot of people in Crimea would be afraid to oppose Russia after it took the region by force.

#33 | Posted by rcade at 2017-04-21 03:54 PM | Reply

"Your claim that 95% of people in Crimea supported it being annexed by Russia is BS propaganda, and I bet you know it."

it's not my claim, it's Gallup's claim. It was a Gullup poll that provided the source data. That's where the author drew his information from. The source document can be found below:

www.bbg.gov

"There was a boycott of the vote by ethnic Ukrainians and Tatars."

68.4% of Ethnic Ukrainians stated that The results of the referendum on Crimea's status likely reflect the views of most people there. 59.3% of ethnic Ukrainians stated that they believe that becoming part of Russia will make life better for them and their families.

And from the article:

"The U.S. made a big deal about the rights of ethnic minorities there known as the Tatars, which account for around 10% of the population. Of the 4% total that said they did not endorse Russia's annexation, the vast majority -- 55% -- said that they feel that way because they believe it should have been allowed by Kiev in accordance with international law. Another 24% said the referendum vote was "held under pressure", which means political or military threats to vote and vote in favor."

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 04:19 PM | Reply

I see now that Germnay was right to annex the Sudetenland.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-21 04:52 PM | Reply

it's not my claim, it's Gallup's claim.

It was your claim in #10. Now it's not your claim.

I trust polls conducted in Russia and Crimea as much as I trust Putin.

#38 | Posted by rcade at 2017-04-21 05:16 PM | Reply

"It was your claim in #10. Now it's not your claim."

Technically, I can claim nether. The first claim, in 10, came from the official results of the elections. And if that's all there were, then I'd understand your suspicion. The Gallup results are just those, results from what I would consider to be a pretty reputable source. Maybe you think that they're in Putin's pocket as well...I don't know.

What I do know is that you won't likely accept any results unless they support your personally held POV. And I don't think they exist.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2017-04-21 06:49 PM | Reply

Weren't the Ukrainians nazi antisemits?

#40 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2017-04-21 07:02 PM | Reply

#338, but who is more knowledgeable and truthful, Putin or Trump? Who is more inclined to wage war?

Regardless of the final outcome in the Ukraine, I agree with Danni, that this conflict will not end until Russia has a landbridge to Crimea.

#41 | Posted by nutcase at 2017-04-21 08:10 PM | Reply

What Russia needs is a warm water port which Crimea provides. It is in Russia's national interest to maintain a warm water port there.

Russia is not giving up Crimea and it isn't worth going to war over.

#42 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2017-04-21 09:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It is in Russia's national interest to maintain a warm water port there.

It's in Iran and North Korea's national interest to develop nuclear weapons.

Also not worth going to war over?

#43 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-04-21 10:07 PM | Reply

"It is in Russia's national interest to maintain a warm water port there."

Russia needs Syria for the same reason.

Not worth going to war over?

#44 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-04-21 10:15 PM | Reply

Yes and Yes,

#43 - is nothing more than a junior attempt at a strawman, I give him a gentleman's C.

#44 - Syria is about an American pipeline. Do you agree with creating havoc and death in a country far away worth a pipeline? That is your answer.

#45 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2017-04-21 10:28 PM | Reply

It's certainly in China's national interest to dredge, develop and militarize those islands in the South China Sea.

No big?

#46 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-04-21 10:30 PM | Reply

I give him a gentleman's C.

Good enough to be a war POTUS!

#47 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-04-21 10:32 PM | Reply

#44 - Syria is about an American pipeline. Do you agree with creating havoc and death in a country far away worth a pipeline? That is your answer.

#45 | POSTED BY PROLIX247

So when we find ourselves at war in these far away places what will be your answer?

"He meant to do that."

#48 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-04-21 10:40 PM | Reply

The answer is let Israel protect itself. Syria is about Hezbollah to them and they are also pushing the US to take up arms on their bahalf.

#49 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2017-04-22 12:37 PM | Reply

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