Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, April 14, 2017

In 1998, Lee Strobel, a reporter for the Chicago Tribune and a graduate of Yale Law School, published "The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus." Strobel had formerly been an atheist and was compelled by his wife's conversion to evangelical Christianity to refute the key Christian claims about Jesus.

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Paramount among these was the historicity of Jesus' resurrection, but other claims included the belief in Jesus as the literal Son of God and the accuracy of the New Testament writings. Strobel, however, was unable to refute these claims to his satisfaction, and he then converted to Christianity as well. His book became one of the bestselling works of Christian apologetic (that is, a defense of the reasonableness and accuracy of Christianity) of all time.

This Friday, April 7, a motion picture adaptation of "The Case for Christ" is being released. The movie attempts to make a compelling case for historicity of Jesus' resurrection. As one character says to Strobel early in the movie, "If the resurrection of Jesus didn't happen, it's [i.e., the Christian faith] a house of cards."

Comments

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The evidence is faith..

#1 | Posted by boaz at 2017-04-14 07:26 PM | Reply

The evidence is faith..

#1 | Posted by boaz at 2017-04-14 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag

That's a contradiction in itself.

#2 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-04-14 07:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

There isn't a shred of evidence of his birth, life, death, or resurrection.

Not one thing exists that proves any of it.

#3 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 07:38 PM | Reply

"There isn't a shred of evidence of his birth, life, death, or resurrection.

Not one thing exists that proves any of it.

#3 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at"

Complete B.S. no serous historians doubt that Jesus existed

#4 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-14 09:08 PM | Reply

Complete B.S. no serous historians doubt that Jesus existed

Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-14 09:08 PM | Reply

I thought he cut grass last week.

#5 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-04-14 09:09 PM | Reply

no serous historians doubt that Jesus existed

Doesn't mean there is no shred of evidence.

There isn't.

#6 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-04-14 09:11 PM | Reply

Complete B.S. no serous historians doubt that Jesus existed
#4 | POSTED BY PUNCHYPOSSUM A

Show me a single shred of evidence that he ever existed.

The internet is ever bit of information known to man and I have all night.

#7 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 09:56 PM | Reply

#7

www.theguardian.com

#8 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 10:09 PM | Reply

No.

You article actually says this:

"It is hard to find historians who regard this material as serious archaeological data, however."

My dad lived and died.

Wanna see proof?

Show me some solid physical evidence, not a god damned article that says "no one with any credibility who has no ulterior motives actually believes any of this ****."

#9 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:16 PM | Reply

He said this in the article: "These abundant historical references leave us with little reasonable doubt that Jesus lived and died." If you disagree with him, you're welcome to email him. His email is in his bio page at the University of Cambridge:

www.divinity.cam.ac.uk

#10 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 10:20 PM | Reply

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Um,,, no.

I asked you to show me evidence.

I did not ask you to show me what some guy thinks.

#11 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:23 PM | Reply

Tell me how:

"Well,,, this is what some guy thinks so you need to convict/exonerate him..."

holds up in court.

#12 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:25 PM | Reply

There is just as much proof that Jesus was real as there is that Obama was born in Hawaii. There was a newspaper announcement in a Hawaii paper for Obama and there was a book written about Jesus. The only difference is that we don't the material Jesus passed around trying to sign the New Testament book deal saying he was not real like we do have for Obama saying he was born in Kenya.

#13 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-14 10:26 PM | Reply

It took 13 posts in a thread about a guy who never existed to get to an Obama deflection?????

You guys are slacking and you need to up your game.

#14 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:31 PM | Reply

So instead of going to academia to show them they're wrong, you want some guy on the internet to show you evidence?

You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

#15 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 10:32 PM | Reply

#15

I think you may need to crush a little foil on your antenna.

How do I prove to you that something that never happened didn't happen?

How could any evidence be produced from an event that didn't occur?

You are making my argument for me.

;-)

#16 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:39 PM | Reply

This is NOT an argument about whether or not Jesus lived. It is about the RESURRECTION of Jesus.

Can you prove THAT? Because without it, as the article states, all of Christianity is built upon a house of cards.

#17 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-04-14 10:47 PM | Reply

Is "surrected" a word, #17?

If he was never "surrected" I would guess he could have never been resurrected.

#18 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:50 PM | Reply

"Can you prove THAT? Because without it, as the article states, all of Christianity is built upon a house of cards.

#17 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT "

You are missing the point. God has hidden all of the proof to test your faith (just like he did with Dinosaur fossils). You have failed already. Hope you don't mind hot weather.

#19 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-14 10:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

For me, evidence of the Resurrection is the Shroud of Turin.

#20 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 10:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's about time somebody mentioned the shroud.

#21 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-04-14 10:58 PM | Reply

Experts in the field have spent their entire lives researching and writing about the life of Jesus both for his existence/resurrection and against his existence/resurrection.

#22 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 11:00 PM | Reply

#19 "God has hidden all of the proof to test your faith (just like he did with Dinosaur fossils)."

That is the most ridiculous statement ever. I assume you are being sarcastic....

#23 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-04-14 11:01 PM | Reply

The Shroud's a phony. It's a fake

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-04-14 11:02 PM | Reply

Experts in the field have spent their entire lives researching and writing about the life of Jesus both for his existence/resurrection and against his existence/resurrection.

#22 | POSTED BY PIRATE AT

Wait...

You mean if there is a buck to be made off of weak people someone will take the time to make it?

Whodathunkit???

I mean, I'll be damned...

#25 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 11:04 PM | Reply

#22 Yeah, it's easy to prove the existence of Jesus the man, but can you prove the resurrection?

#26 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-04-14 11:04 PM | Reply

I was fortunate to go to church with one of the leading experts on it. He was one of the original STURP scientists who studied it in the 70s. One of my biggest regrets in life was not getting to know him.

#27 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 11:07 PM | Reply

#25 - Yeah, curse those historians!

#28 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 11:15 PM | Reply

#25 - Yeah, curse those historians!

#28 | POSTED BY PIRATE AT

These historians?

"It is hard to find historians who regard this material as serious archaeological data, however."

#29 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 11:24 PM | Reply

#25

I will have to dial up by sarcasm to 11 so you don't need to assume.

BTW, while on the subject, there is about 1,000,000x more proof for everything in the New Testament compared to the Old Testament where you either have evidence that directly contradicts it or a complete lack of any credible evidence. Take the Exodus for example. Complete crock of ----. Most of the stories in the Old Testament where stolen for other other cultures and had their names changed. I still remember growing up and being told the pyramids were built by Jewish slaves. Like I said, complete crock of ----.

#30 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-14 11:45 PM | Reply

#29:

I noticed you didn't include the next sentence: "The documents produced by Christian, Jewish and Roman writers form the most significant evidence."

Read the link below on other historians' take on the Jesus Myth:
www.bede.org.uk

If you have a problem with it, then I again suggest you take up with the historians or write a book yourself.

#31 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-14 11:58 PM | Reply

"If you have a problem with it, then I again suggest you take up with the historians or write a book yourself.
#31 | POSTED BY PIRATE "

I think his/her issue will be that the accounts are not contemporaneous. They are all written 100+ years after Jesus' death.

#32 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-15 12:00 AM | Reply

#2 Probably because Christianity wasn't a big enough movement to register with historians until then. We have, count them, 10 fragmentary papyrus scrolls from the second century.

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2017-04-15 12:10 AM | Reply

#33

I don't disagree with you on that being the reason. But, it does remove a bit of the legitimacy for those historical accounts. I personally blame the Divinci Code for emboldening all the doubters. The council of Nicene, etc. does a lot to harm the factual basis for the New Testament. That said, I think Jesus' existence is pretty much a 100% fact at this point. The only question is on the miracles/Resurrection and that is where the matter of faith comes in.

#34 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-15 12:15 AM | Reply

100+ years after Jesus death is a stretch. The article says 1 Ephesians was written around 52 AD. Paul mentions people who knew and walked with Jesus and were still alive at the time.

Yes, these were written after Jesus death but not by 100+ years. Boston College says the majority of scholars agree Mark was the first gospel written around 70 AD.

www.bc.edu

#35 | Posted by Pirate at 2017-04-15 12:19 AM | Reply

We know that the apostles existed we know that just a few years after Jesus was crucified Paul was writing to groups of Christians that has already been established we have some of the writings of PolyCarp who was a student of John the apostle.

We have the writings of Flavius Josephus, "who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus's negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of "Jesus, the so-called Christ".
www.theguardian.com

We have the writings of Pliny and Tacitus.

The existent of Jesus is only a question among evangelical atheists not historians.

You can question if he was the son of God or the Christ but his existence is not up to question by any serous historian

#36 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-15 12:25 AM | Reply

Where's LFTHNDTHRDS? He should be all over this thread.

#37 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2017-04-15 12:28 AM | Reply

Show me a single shred of evidence that he ever existed.
#7 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

Why does it matter?

Do you think Mohammad existed?

Does it matter?

Not to me at all.... but if it matters to you, you need to ask yourself why?

#38 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-04-15 12:54 AM | Reply

Socrates did not exist, prove to me he existed!

#39 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-15 01:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Here's what he looked like...
media1.britannica.com

Now show me a bust or picture that someone made of Jesus from a sitting.

#40 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2017-04-15 06:00 AM | Reply

The evidence is faith..

#1 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Best self-retorting retort in a while.

#41 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2017-04-15 06:00 AM | Reply

Socrates did not exist, prove to me he existed!
#39 | POSTED BY PUNCHYPOSSUM A

Why??

#42 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 09:13 AM | Reply

#38 seems to think I discriminate when it comes to other people's imaginary friends.

LOL

#43 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 09:15 AM | Reply

#42 why?

Because you can't prove it....

He's challenging your logic. Sad it had to be explained to you.

So prove Socrates exisited(are you scared of the challenge?) or your argument that Jesus didn't falls apart. Waiting for your proof.

#44 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 09:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Because you can't prove it....

#44 | POSTED BY PINKYANTHEBRAIN AT

Why on earth would I want to???

Let me see if I understand you idiots here.

You can't do something.

Because I also can't do something, something that I never claimed to be able to or ever even had any interest at all in doing, you are right and I am wrong?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

#45 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#45 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

So your point is that you have no point.... Pointless

Lmao brilliant, truly brilliant!

I'll take that as a YES, your scared to be challenged back.

#46 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 10:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Right, ------, right.

The fact that I never claimed that someone existed and I also can't prove that the person who I never claimed existed actually existed proves that someone who you can't prove existed existed.

It's almost too ignorant to even type out.

If that's all you've got you've kinda gotta run with it though.

Right, ------?

#47 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 10:43 AM | Reply

Not my fault your argument is pointless.... No amount of calling me names will change it... Only proves further that your argument is pointless

#48 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 11:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yap.

If you can't definitively prove how gravity works your argument is pointless and Jesus could have never existed.

See how that works?

No amount of being a ******* ------ will change it.

#49 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 11:05 AM | Reply

So prove Socrates exisited(are you scared of the challenge?) or your argument that Jesus didn't falls apart. Waiting for your proof.

Don't speak about logic if you don't understand it.

Not being able to prove Socrate's existence is irrelevant to proving Jesus' existence.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2017-04-15 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's almost too ignorant to even type out.

lol best line I've read on here in a long time.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2017-04-15 11:14 AM | Reply

Can you prove Buzz Lightyear didn't exist, #50?

If you can't Jesus very obviously existed.

Don't you see????

#52 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 11:15 AM | Reply

Ironically, there is as much proof of the existence of Buzz Lightyear as there is for Jesus Harold Christ.

He's in books, in a coupla movies, there are figurines, he's on clothes, etc.

#53 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 11:20 AM | Reply

"When the debate is over, slander becomes the tool of the loser." Socrates

There's a perfect quote for the likes of you.

#54 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 11:29 AM | Reply

Can you prove that Socrates said that?

#55 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 11:30 AM | Reply

You just quoted a guy who's existence you asked me to prove for reasons I'll never fully understand...

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

#56 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 11:38 AM | Reply

#50 POSTED BY JPW

You can claim a lot of people didn't exist, don't make it true. Which is what was being pointed out.

#57 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 11:51 AM | Reply

#55

Prove he didn't!

#58 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 11:53 AM | Reply

You don't even think he existed.

If you think he did why did you ask me for proof of it?

Sort of makes you look dishonest and/or like a blithering idiot to the normal people who are following along.

I feel this thing would have been a lot easier for you if you had simply kept your looney superstitions to yourself..

#59 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 12:02 PM | Reply

When did I say that?

Who is the dishonest one?

I feel this thing would have been a lot easier for you if you had simply kept your looney skeptical views to yourself..

#60 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 12:14 PM | Reply

That Jesus existed is a far simpler matter and one Acadamia supports.

Relevant historians are nearly unanimous in there agreement Jesus was:

* baptized in the Jordan river

* said many great things

* was horribly executed under a specific ceaser.

#61 | Posted by Tor at 2017-04-15 12:21 PM | Reply

When did I say that?

#60 | POSTED BY PINKYANTHEBRAIN AT

Well, you kind of asked me to prove to you that he existed.

Out of the blue.

For no reason other than to ask apparently.

At that point a person, an honest one anyway, would have to assume that you doubt his existence.

If you didn't doubt his existence why did you ask for proof of it?

Now, are you a liar, an idiot, or an idiot who an aversion to telling the truth?

#62 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-15 12:22 PM | Reply

It seems some neo-atheists need schooling on their manners, lest no one will want to talk to them at all.

Perhaps that is best done by some less defensive, more intellectual atheists,....

www.newstatesman.com

#63 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 12:32 PM | Reply

#62 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

I'm going to stick to Thumpers mothers and fathers advice on this one youtu.be

I have nothing nice left to say to you.

#64 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-15 12:53 PM | Reply

As far as the Resurrection is concerned, there are many kinds of proofs.... yet few will read them.

www.bethinking.org

coldcasechristianity.com

factreal.files.wordpress.com

Of course, as science proves about the internet, most people are only about confirming their biases, not about learning.

And many people are afraid of that which they do not understand.... so, all the defensive name-calling.

#65 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

And many people are afraid of that which they do not understand....

Is that not where religion comes from in the first place?

#66 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-04-15 01:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah, it's easy to prove the existence of Jesus the man, but can you prove the resurrection?
#26 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Not from The World's prospective. Knowing that Christ is risen is spiritual knowledge. The World's position is to deny Christ to the end.

The argument is futile.

#67 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-04-15 01:09 PM | Reply

#66

Some, one supposes. If one thinks one "knows" that there are no other possible origins in this or any of the other uncountable dimensions modern science tells us exist.

#68 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 01:09 PM | Reply

Threads like these make me want to post threads about my latest D&D game

#69 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 01:17 PM | Reply

The key to understanding the Resurrection is the Disciples. They preached not only an empty tomb, but a risen savior {that has been predicted for the previous millennia} and the Ascension.

They were either liars or they believed what they preached. Each but one dies alone in a distant land of a terrible violent death when all they had to do was say, "hey, I was just kidding!", and they would have lived.

The third link in #65 details the proofs.

#70 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 01:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#69 |

Perhaps you should read the atheists in #63 instead on how demeaning other people's beliefs make one appear ---------- and foolish.

#71 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 01:23 PM | Reply

Blah blah blah
You are the zombie believer
I just think World war Z is a better story

#72 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 01:41 PM | Reply

Easter is a good thing, not a bad thing. Just saying.

#73 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 01:52 PM | Reply

That's highly debatable

#74 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 01:54 PM | Reply

Is inherent guilt a good thing ?
Not guilt relative to an action but guilt installed as a condition of life

#75 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 01:56 PM | Reply

Everything is debatable.

#76 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 01:56 PM | Reply

Guilt installed as a condition of life? Do you feel guilty?

#77 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 01:57 PM | Reply

Nope but I've had years of therapy over my Christian upbringing or do you deny original sin?

#78 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:00 PM | Reply

1 plus 1 equals 2 isn't debatable
At least for the non insane

#79 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:01 PM | Reply

Nothing in Christianity ever sent me to therapy. Just saying.

#80 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:01 PM | Reply

Do you think you're an animal?

#81 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:02 PM | Reply

And schizophrenics honestly believe their visions
Just saying

#82 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:03 PM | Reply

#79

Or for the insufficiently creative.

#83 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:03 PM | Reply

all of Christianity is built upon a house of cards.

And a book.

Written by kings.

Used to control their subjects.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 02:03 PM | Reply

Think? No
Know? Yes

#85 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:03 PM | Reply

More people have visions than schizophrenics.

#86 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:04 PM | Reply

#85

Then you've got your explanation for Original Sin.

#87 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:05 PM | Reply

Not creativity insanity

#88 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:06 PM | Reply

#88

The difference is vanishing.

#89 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:07 PM | Reply

Being an animal means original sin?
My puppers prove that wrong cause they are the opposite of sin

#90 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:08 PM | Reply

Vanishing only for the sick the deranged or the willingly ignorant

#91 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:09 PM | Reply

Puppies are wonderful. When older would they mate with their mother?

#92 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:10 PM | Reply

#91

You have to know by now that whatever bad things I am, I'm not ignorant.

#93 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:11 PM | Reply

You're ignorant if you think puppies are sinful

#95 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:15 PM | Reply

Nothing in Christianity ever sent me to therapy. Just saying.
#80 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2017-04-15 02:01 PM | FLAG:

You must have enjoyed it when the priests where raping you. Just saying.

#96 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 02:16 PM | Reply

#94

Cain went east of Eden to find a wife. Know what he found there?

#97 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:17 PM | Reply

#96

A bit hostile, are we?

#98 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:18 PM | Reply

Must have been animals or brothers and sisters as his parents were the only people

#99 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:18 PM | Reply

#95

I'm just saying they're animals like you are.

#100 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:19 PM | Reply

#99

Cain found women east of Eden, of course.

#101 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:20 PM | Reply

Ipsofacto puppies aren't born with sin neither was i

#102 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:20 PM | Reply

101
Those people must have been created by god's brother Erv

#103 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:21 PM | Reply

#103

Or maybe you've misunderstood all along

#104 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:22 PM | Reply

#102

Were you born an animal?

#105 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:23 PM | Reply

God created Adam and Eve
When that was inconvenient for the story other people sprouted
So yeah I understand

#106 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:24 PM | Reply

Yes but I wasn't born with sin and all the guilt no matter what they teach

#107 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#106

God created the first humans, as well as whatever other people as may have been extant.

#108 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:26 PM | Reply

Cain found women east of Eden, of course.
#101 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2017-04-15 02:20 PM | FLAG:

Was the part were god made more humans left out of the Bible?

Did he need more of Adam's ribs?

Why were these humans not allowed in the garden of eden?

Since they never ate of the apple. Where they without knowledge? And therefore. A bunch of idiots?

Come on Zed! You've clearly read the Bible. I only watched the passion of the Christ. So. I only know the parts of the book that were shown in the movie.

I feel like those game of throne viewers who only watched the show and missed out on all the extra tidbits in the book.

Was Jesus banging all those dudes? Or were they just close friends?

#109 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 02:26 PM | Reply

#107

You were born an animal with all that implies.

#110 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:27 PM | Reply

#109

You think too concretely. That leads you into paradox.

#111 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:29 PM | Reply

Doesn't imply I'm guilty for something I didn't do
Stop purposely obfuscating

#112 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:30 PM | Reply

Ahh the old paradox argument when you're argument is nonsensical

#113 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:31 PM | Reply

#112

I don't know what you're guilty of, but you are capable anything

#114 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:32 PM | Reply

Stop dancing zed Christianity is based on original sin

#115 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:33 PM | Reply

#113. May friend Clownshack proposed the paradoxes. I'm not trying to get out of anything

#116 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:34 PM | Reply

You were born an animal with all that implies.
#110 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2017-04-15 02:27 PM | FLAG:

We are all animals.

What that means is we are multicellular beings. We are heterotrophic, obtaining energy by consuming energy-releasing food substances. We reproduce sexually. Our cells do not have cell walls. We are capable of motion and respond quickly to external stimuli as a result of nerve cells and muscle.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu

It's called biology. The study of life and living beings. It's helped us educate ourselves. So we know what being born an animal implies.

#117 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 02:34 PM | Reply

Christianity is based on Christ.

#118 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No zed he pointed out the absolute silliness of exodus

#119 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:34 PM | Reply

You are lying now zed

#120 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:35 PM | Reply

#117

What does it imply behaviorally?

#121 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:35 PM | Reply

You think too concretely. That leads you into paradox.
#111 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2017-04-15 02:29 PM | FLAG:

So it's not in the book. That's fine. The Bible is a piece of fiction. And fiction seldom adheres to the laws of reality.

#122 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 02:36 PM | Reply

#120

Don't see how

#123 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:37 PM | Reply

#122

Writers know that fiction often explains reality best of all

#124 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:38 PM | Reply

Original sin isn't the basic tenet of Christianity?

#125 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:38 PM | Reply

#125

Of course not.

#126 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:40 PM | Reply

See you're lying cause I honestly don't think you aren't aware of it

#127 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:41 PM | Reply

Adam bit the damned apple so I was born a sinner

#128 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:42 PM | Reply

#127

You'll have to explain yourself.

#129 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:43 PM | Reply

"Writers know that fiction often explains reality best of all"

Sure. There's truth in the story about the tortoise and the hare.

But if you believe a turtle and a bunny actually got into a pissing contest and decided to settle it with a footrace, you need to think a little harder.

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 02:44 PM | Reply

#130

I have to think harder than I do? You want to ruin my health?

#131 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:45 PM | Reply

Come now zed I won't play your game you know what original sin is

#132 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:46 PM | Reply

Who knew sweet little bunnies were so arrogant

#133 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:47 PM | Reply

#132

I know the doctrine. That's not what Christ was about.

#134 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:47 PM | Reply

That must be their original sin

#135 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Original sin isn't the basic tenet of Christianity?"

Could we please not use words Eberly isn't familiar with?

Let's keep it on a college reading level, adjusted for Kansas, please.

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 02:48 PM | Reply

He didn't die for our sins? We are born perfect?

#137 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:48 PM | Reply

#125

Well, you're sure hung up in it.

#138 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:49 PM | Reply

Tenet is that thing that divides a tennis court

#139 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:49 PM | Reply

138 nah xtians are I'm just on a thread discussing it

#140 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:50 PM | Reply

"II have to think harder than I do?"

Only if you believe in talking bunnies.

(If your real name is Harvey I'm prepared to allow some wiggle room here.)

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 02:51 PM | Reply

Come on guys. The message of Easter is that death is not the end. All of you think you wink out?

#142 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:53 PM | Reply

Do other animals wink out, or just humans?

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 02:55 PM | Reply

#143

What's your opinion?

#144 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:55 PM | Reply

I think that anything that loves survives death.

#145 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:56 PM | Reply

Yes we wink out why do you think you're special

#146 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 02:57 PM | Reply

#146

You have expressed a personal religious belief.

#147 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 02:58 PM | Reply

Love is just a chemical reaction
Since matter/energy can't be destroyed or created you might have a point but probably not what you think

#148 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:00 PM | Reply

#148

If I have one point maybe I have others.

#149 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 03:01 PM | Reply

Broken clock and all

#150 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:03 PM | Reply

"II think that anything that loves survives death."

So if people don't love they wink out?

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 03:03 PM | Reply

Poor psycho paths who can't love I feel bad for them

#152 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:04 PM | Reply

#151

Just in this world.

#153 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 03:04 PM | Reply

Hitler loved blonde id feel better if he winked out

#154 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:06 PM | Reply

What if the love is poisonous does that survive?
Lots of abusers love that shouldn't be a ticket to heaven

#155 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:09 PM | Reply

#154

Ultimately, this why only God is qualified to judge.

Hitler was a monster, yet he did love dogs. And he was brave. God sorts that stuff out.

#156 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 03:09 PM | Reply

If god is the only one qualified how could you possibly know his criteria?

#157 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:11 PM | Reply

God gave us survival instincts as well as love
Maybe those survival instincts are most important

#158 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:13 PM | Reply

#157

I don't claim to, for the most part. But Jesus did speak to it from time to time,

#159 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 03:14 PM | Reply

Isn't that convenient
We can't cross examine our acuser

#160 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 03:17 PM | Reply

And in the end

The love you take

Is equal to the love you make

#161 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-04-15 03:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Zed with all due respect I'm sure you can understand that if Hitler is in heaven then plenty of reasonable, sensible people wouldn't want to associate with a G-d like that.

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-15 03:50 PM | Reply

#161 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Love thy neighbor, but don't get caught.

#163 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-04-15 04:07 PM | Reply

Love is just a chemical reaction
#148 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

True, but its not soup .... its three separate reactions to certain stimuli, each one pertaining to different stages in human brain evolution.

#164 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2017-04-15 04:09 PM | Reply

Yeah iow soup

People need to stop thinking they are special

#165 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 04:19 PM | Reply

"God created Adam and Eve
#106 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS "

He also created Adam and Steve, hence gay marriage.

#166 | Posted by InTrumpWeTrust at 2017-04-15 05:42 PM | Reply

Also Madam and Eve hence the first whore house

#167 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-15 06:15 PM | Reply

You think too concretely. That leads you into paradox.

You don't think objectively enough, which leads you to conclusions meant to tell you what you want them to tell you.

#168 | Posted by jpw at 2017-04-15 06:54 PM | Reply

#168

Lawdy. I've been formally trained in the scientific method. I've designed and conducted experiments. This makes me a scientist.

#169 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-15 07:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

WELL, I see I didn't miss anything.

.

This below is still the most informed and easy to understand talk you are ever likely to read on the subject of the Resurrection... and it's by a Stanford PhD, not a Jerry Falwell's Liberty U grad.

You'll know a lot more about it than most so-called Christians do. And if it takes you much longer than 10 minutes, you are slow.

from the link in #65

It starts...

"I lost my faith, in college. I lost it because of a subtle psychological pressure. It was all right
to believe in Jesus as a "good and wise" teacher, and elevate Him on an equal plane
with Mohammed, who founded the Islamic faith, with Gautama Buddha, who was a prince of
India and founded Buddhism, with Confucius of China (more of a political philosopher, really)
whose sayings affect so much of that portion of the world – in short, with any respectable founder
of a religion.

I could put Jesus in that category, dispense with Him as a "good and wise teacher," be accepted
and get my intellectual wings. But to hold to the belief that Jesus Christ was the Son of God,
and thus super-natural was simply not acceptable."

factreal.files.wordpress.com

#170 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 08:18 PM | Reply

#169

Mock all you want zed.

You're still the idiot who believes Stone Age fairytales about a sky daddy who'll spank you if you don't believe in him enough.

But yet act like an arrogant shmuck as if it's completely rational or intelligent to believe such childish ---------.

#171 | Posted by jpw at 2017-04-15 10:28 PM | Reply

Where's LFTHNDTHRDS? He should be all over this thread.

#37 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2017-04-15 12:28 AM | FLAG:

I'm here. Reading this crazy thread.

The problem with Christ and his supposed resurrection lies in his followers acceptance of the entire story based on faith.

You can't be closed minded and ever learn anything about world religions. If you have an ounce of ego, you will never see the truth.

Here's what I believe. There was a guy that lived around 2000 years ago that brought an advanced teaching to the area. Was his name Jesus? I don't believe it. This man taught strange things. He taught people how to be set free from religion.
Was he killed? Yes but the story of him being killed for my sins is where the -------- gets deep. Let's think about this.... Were going to kill someone else for all the bad ---- you and I've done? The Old Testament is full of killing animals for their sins. Wtf did they do to deserve a horrid death? Jesus was killed by insecure, greedy religious people whom were threatened by him and his teachings. Did he rise from the dead? No.

Born of a virgin? No. That's one of the oldest stories in the world. Do some research that

Today is Ishtar. Your pagan holiday of fertility that you celebrate the resurrection of someone you're not sure even exists.

You celebrate his birth on December 25th the winter Solstice

If someone as important as Jesus actually came along, you'd at least assume we could get the dates right.

And if you still assume the whole story it the absolute truth, you have to take into consideration the. council of Nicaea. I've heard as many as 6 people were killed during that event. The truth you did not get...

#172 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 09:54 AM | Reply

The evidence is faith..

#1 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-04-14 07:26 PM | FLAG:

You need faith to believe the unbelievable.

When any Christian gets his/her ass in a crack they want science not faith.

Someone is about to break in your home and rob you maybe rape your wife.... you're going to kneel down and call on Jesus to make it stop, right? Because you have faith right? Wrong, you're going to grab that pistol and def no yourself because you have no faith.

#173 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:02 AM | Reply

From the Nicean creed

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages"

Genesis 6 says that God had more than one son. How you going to deal with that?

When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them"

None of the document we call the Bible is accurate enough to be taken seriousl. I'm not saying parts aren't good, it's my favorite book to study, I'm simply saying it's full of holes.

#174 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:12 AM | Reply

#171

You're right. I can be arrogant. I' m also mocked for mentioning practically anything which suggests I'm as least as intelligent as people like yourself.

#175 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:19 AM | Reply

#172

What I get from you is that you have a version of Jesus you believe in. That's great, and Jesus appreciates it.

#176 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:22 AM | Reply

#173

You bet. I'd defend my loved ones. Jesus likes brave people. It's a variety of faith.

#177 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:24 AM | Reply

#173
You bet. I'd defend my loved ones. Jesus likes brave people. It's a variety of faith.

#177 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2017-04-16 10:24 AM | FLAG:

Ever said any such nonsense. "Turn the other cheek"

#178 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:28 AM | Reply

*Never

#179 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:29 AM | Reply

#178

What we do out of love is usually all that is required.

#180 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:30 AM | Reply

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me. When you are something rather than just a person who thinks about something, you enjoy some advantage.

#181 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:32 AM | Reply

So let me see if I got this straight, you work tirelessly to prove a character in the Bible existed (for your ego I assume) but you can pick and choose what parts of his teachings you want to follow?

Jesus ain't happy with you, Zed

#182 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:34 AM | Reply

#182

Then Jesus will talk with me about it.

#183 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:36 AM | Reply

"I'm not sure why you're arguing with me"

Because that's what we do here.

#184 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#184

Good answer.

#185 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:38 AM | Reply

Zed, I went to church for over 25 years of my life. Raised in a Catholic Church then moved on to non denomination later.
It all confused me, I never came away feeling whole. I've since moved on because what I learned wasn't accepted.

I argue because I want to know the truth not because I want to be right. If you can show me some proof that will change my thinking I will gladly accept. But I don't see that in religious people. They simply want to be right because of egos and traditions.

#186 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:49 AM | Reply

#186

Ever read John Keel?

#187 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 10:52 AM | Reply

187.

Don't recall him. But coincidentally I began reading "The case for Christ" recently. A co worker whose worried about my salvation gave it to me a week or so ago.

#188 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:59 AM | Reply

#173 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

You made some good points up thread of this, but I just wanted to throw a slightly different perspective on this one.

Praying to God to stop it wouldn't be any different then, just yelling for the cops. Won't do much. However doesn't mean you go faithless either. You pray for things that can help or happen. Call the cops on the phone and take into your own hands what you can to defend your family and yourself hopping (faith) you have the ability to do so.

#189 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-16 12:00 PM | Reply

#172 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Pagan holidays adopted, this is also one of my many issues with the Catholic church. Getting to the truth of the matter is next to impossible. Not a fan of blind rituals that they used to attract pagens into the religion, it's dishonest. Doesn't completely kill my faith just makes me go to the core values of what it is....

#190 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-16 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Someone is about to break in your home and rob you maybe rape your wife.... you're going to kneel down and call on Jesus to make it stop, right? #173 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Such a strange bastardization of what "faith" is, lft. ThatsNotHowItWorks.

#191 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2017-04-16 12:10 PM | Reply

Pinky,

Look, at the end of the day you have to have faith to be a Christian. The Bible defines faith as "being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see" you have to employ faith because without it the whole thing is unbelievable.

It would be like me selling you an invisible car. Or telling you a story that you have trouble believing.

I know some of this stuff can sound harsh but I'm not intending to upset anyone. Well, except Corky.

#192 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 12:19 PM | Reply

Such a strange bastardization of what "faith" is, lft. ThatsNotHowItWorks.

#191 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT 2017-04-16 12:10 PM | FLAG:

Agreed. I was a little harsh with that example.

#193 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 12:21 PM | Reply

Pagan holidays adopted, this is also one of my many issues with the Catholic church. Getting to the truth of the matter is next to impossible. Not a fan of blind rituals that they used to attract pagens into the religion, it's dishonest. Doesn't completely kill my faith just makes me go to the core values of what it is....

#190 | POSTED BY PINKYANTHEBRAIN AT 2017-04-16 12:09 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

I'm going to tell you what I told my own mother

Besides those those things you listed above there's another issue that you have to turn a blind eye to.

For many years the Catholic Church has allowed rape and molestation of small children who couldn't defend themselves. To my knowledge, there has never been a prosecution of one single monster. Now, if you continue to go to that church and donate to their cause you've become part of the problem. There's a bunch of sick people in that organization and if you start making waves you will see very quickly what got me thrown out.

#194 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 12:28 PM | Reply

# 194 told my mom much the same. Like I said that's just one issue. I have plenty more. I never got kicked out just stoped supporting them and going. Not like you teach like their supposed to at mass anyway right?

#195 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-16 12:46 PM | Reply

*you=they

#196 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-04-16 12:47 PM | Reply

Good on you Pinky.

#197 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 12:57 PM | Reply

So is Hitler in heaven or what?
And if he is, doesn't that really drive down real estate values up there?

No Jews in heaven, correct?
Perhaps it's a good place for Hitler after all.

#198 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-04-16 02:10 PM | Reply

Catholicism is what happens when the traditions of men are put in primacy over the ways of God... or as Jesus told the religious hypocrites of his day, they make void the word of God by their traditions.

Now, it's too bad that some people are raised with those traditions and then become bitter and cynical when they find out those are only man made traditions, and they cast aspirations, mostly false, on the original Way, but it's not at all impressive, especially when it is mostly a specious reading of even the false traditions.

What would be impressive would be if the same people read the rational historical proofs in the link at #170 and retorted them with other rational historical proofs, if they could.

#199 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-16 04:10 PM | Reply

Liberal provocateur Chris Hedges: 'I Don't Believe in Atheists'

www.truthdig.com

#200 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-16 04:23 PM | Reply

"So Hitler is in heaven, or what?"

No clue.

However, would it disturb you to meet the nine year old Hitler in heaven?

#201 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 04:35 PM | Reply

What would be impressive would be if the same people read the rational historical proofs in the link at #170 and retorted them with other rational historical proofs, if they could.
#199 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2017-04-16 04:10 PM | REPLY

I fully understand your post. I've taken the time to give you facts that the Bible is full of holes. You blew by #174 and didn't say a word. No number of links can fill those gaps.

Have you ever opened your mind enough to ponder that God may not be what you think it is? I'm not an atheist I do have a belief system. It's just not the way you think.

A lot of christians (not all) are pushy with a document that they barely understand themselves. Hell, I've been studying for many years and at times it still confuses me.

Here's a thought, if the Bible is actually the word of god, written by men why would we need biblical scholars to tell what to believe? Couldn't God have it written in a fashion that all his people could easily understand?

#202 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 05:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The needs of men change LFTHNDTHRDS.

#203 | Posted by Tor at 2017-04-16 08:14 PM | Reply

the link in #170

"There are certain facts that have to be assumed...."

Great proof there cooky

#204 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-04-16 11:22 PM | Reply

#204

Must be, as you have no argument.

#205 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-17 03:13 PM | Reply

#204 The fact is that there is as much proof of the resurrection as there is of what happened before 1 Planck time of the Big Bang. Scientists make assumptions and take it on faith prior to that. One group has chosen the physical world, another the metaphysical. Doesn't mean either is right...or wrong.

#206 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2017-04-17 03:36 PM | Reply

Couldn't God have it written in a fashion that all his people could easily understand?

#202 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 05:21 PM | Reply :

God doesn't even need us to read anything. God can just impart knowledge on us. And I think that would be the only way for a God wrathful God to communicate. If the consequences of failing to heed God's word is eternal damnation, then unnecessarily communicating in a less than 100% effective matter is just plain shady.

If there are eternal consequences at stake, then make us all born knowing that God exista and what it wants from us. We could still have the free will to decide what we to do on our own. But we'd be making informed decisions. Which is fair.

Expecting people to figure out which one of thousands of competing and contradicting religious messages the should be following is just ridiculous.

#207 | Posted by Sully at 2017-04-17 04:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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