Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, April 14, 2017

Today some claim that Jesus is just an idea, rather than a real historical figure, but there is a good deal of written evidence for his existence 2,000 years ago

- How confident can we be that Jesus Christ actually lived?

The historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth is both long-established and widespread. Within a few decades of his supposed lifetime, he is mentioned by Jewish and Roman historians, as well as by dozens of Christian writings.

Advertisement

Advertisement

More

Alternate links: Google News | Twitter

-What do Christian writings tell us?

The value of this evidence is that it is both early and detailed. The first Christian writings to talk about Jesus are the epistles of St Paul, and scholars agree that the earliest of these letters were written within 25 years of Jesus's death at the very latest, while the detailed biographical accounts of Jesus in the New Testament gospels date from around 40 years after he died.

These all appeared within the lifetimes of numerous eyewitnesses, and provide descriptions that comport with the culture and geography of first-century Palestine.

-What did non-Christian authors say about Jesus?

As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus.

One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus's negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of "Jesus, the so-called Christ".

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

more detail

The Historicity of the New Testament

www.bethinking.org

credohouse.org

"Jesus was on the side of the poor and exploited. Christian politicians should remember that"

www.theguardian.com

Before you get started, this is about the historicity of man, not about claims he may have made or claims people made about him.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-14 01:08 PM | Reply

Plutarch and other contemporary historians, at the time, didn't mention him, and they were big on keeping historical records.

#2 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-14 05:35 PM | Reply

Plenty did mention him...

coldcasechristianity.com

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-14 05:58 PM | Reply

And there are reasons some did not.... and a list of more who did.

www.tektonics.org

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-14 06:03 PM | Reply

I have no doubts that Jesus lived.

#5 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-14 07:25 PM | Reply

There is not a single shred of evidence of his existence.

#6 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#6 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2017-04-14 10:00 PM

Socrates never existed!

actually there is a lot of evidence and this article posted here by CORKY covers some of it but of course you will ignore it and any other evidence given to you because that is your bias

#7 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-15 02:04 AM | Reply

#7 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 201

Should say-

actually there is a lot of evidence FOR JESUS and this article posted here by CORKY

#8 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2017-04-15 02:11 AM | Reply

It's true, Socrates may have not existed.

We mainly know the details of his words from Plato's writings. I do not have to know if Socrates existed in order to make sense of his words. His ideas and his words stand alone, they are self-supporting.

I do not believe that Jesus existed, at least not in the capacity of Divine Being/Savior. However, the words attributed to him are magnificent and they also stand alone, even under intellectual examination.

It's too bad that Christians do not use the words of Jesus anymore. Wherever the words come from (could be Mars), they are the best that we we have when it comes to trying to be humane and human.

#9 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-15 06:18 AM | Reply

BTW, I love Socrates.

#10 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-15 06:18 AM | Reply

Advertisement

Advertisement

Jesus (and his contemporaries) were huge fans of Plato, which means they were fans of Socrates.

If your favorite myth studied your second favorite myth, is that the truth?

#11 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-15 06:23 AM | Reply

I do believe that there was a man whose words were recorded and used in that document you call the Bible but I do not believe his name was Jesus. Do your own research if you "really" want to know.

The idea that this Jesus was a sacrifice for our sins is absurd. Think about that for a moment. Killing someone who never did anything wrong to pay for your giving into sins is the height of selfishness. This man you call Jesus was killed because he was teaching something that the religious leaders of the day could not tolerate - setting people free.

We see it in the Old Testament, they killed an innocent animal to cover their asses. Why? What did the animal do to deserve such a horrid fate?

And at the end of your prayers, you mention the name of an Egyptian god - Amen.

Look at the paganism christians follow. Easter, Christmas etc...

Happy Ishtar everyone.

#12 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-15 12:42 PM | Reply

The word amen (/ˌɑːˈmɛn/ or /ˌeɪˈmɛn/; Hebrew: אָמֵן, Modern amen, Tiberian ʾāmēn; Greek: ἀμήν; Arabic: آمين‎‎, ʾāmīn ; "So be it; truly") is a declaration of affirmation[1][2] found in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

It is found in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim worship as a concluding word or response to prayers.[2] Common English translations of the word amen include "verily" and "truly". It can also be used colloquially to express strong agreement,[2] as in, for instance, amen to that.[3]

en.wikipedia.org

Nada to do with Amun.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 01:04 PM | Reply

Lived and died? Crap! I had Jesus doing a stucco job for me until trump sent him south.

#14 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2017-04-15 06:31 PM | Reply

#14

Someone else who could use a lesson in manners from some intellectual atheists....

www.newstatesman.com

Lessons in humor are much fewer and far between.

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-15 08:23 PM | Reply

#15 | POSTED BY CORKY

Corky, corky, corky (exhaling woefully)...

You are doing the same thing the incompetents on the right do. Someone tells you they don't believe in Jesus and you automatically say, 'Atheist'.

How wonderfully arrogant faith makes the faithful. You know one thing the faithful never have to waste valuable resources on? Self-inspection. Why continue to look within and without when you have already found all the answers?

"Oh, here, I found my car keys, but I think I will continue to look for them anyway." NO!

You think you know how to get in heaven, and surely there can be no higher goal. So, what causes you to ever stop, and say, 'hmmm, perhaps i've not fully considered this subject in all of its abstractions (abstractions, BTW, that you are perfectly comfortable with in EVERY OTHER SUBJECT ON PLANET EARTH)....'

Nothing. That's why absolute and rigid religious philosophy, even when presented as parochial tradition, is harmful to advanced thinking.

FYI, I don't believe in Jesus as a Savior, because I reject the idea, across the board, of a 'Savior'. I do believe in God, in a sense. All of the old and new gods are each subsets of my god.

When religionists employ their silly rituals and rigid observances, it amuses my God, because my god is FUN!!! If my god was an elementary school teacher, he would give you a whole 15 extra minutes playtime if you played nice.

Your God lines everyone up for paddlings no matter if they are good or bad.

#16 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-16 06:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Having said all that....

Even if the words of Jesus were written by babboons, they are still some of the most human and humane of any writings in the history of man.

I just hope, when i get to my heaven, and all the gang is there (Jesus, PeeWee Herman, Karl Marx, Plato, etc....), my god, who loves a good joke, pretends to let me in on the truth...

God (who, for some inexplicable reason turned into jerry lewis);'hey hey hey, n-n-nice man, it wasn't all so serious, was it?'

#17 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-04-16 06:52 AM | Reply

"AMEN: In Egyptian Mythology, the mighty one (god) of life and procreation ... later identified with the Sun-god as the supreme deity of Egypt, and was called "Amen-Ra."

-Funk & Wagnalls, Standard College Dictionary

#18 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 06:54 AM | Reply

"The Israelite exiles from Egypt knew that Jehovah was not the same as the Egyptian god Aten, and so they presumed he must be the equivalent of the great State God of Egypt. It was decided, therefore, to add the name of that State-god of Egypt to all prayers thereafter, and the name of that Egyptian god was "Amen". To this day, the name of Amen is still recited at the end of prayers in both Jewish and Christian religions."

– Genesis of the Grail Kings by Sir Laurence Gardner; pg. 6

#19 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 06:55 AM | Reply

"Finally, we may note that the word "Amen" occurs in gnostic spells ... ..especially of Egyptian origin, and a sort of magical efficacy seems to have been attributed to this word.. The practice of answering "Amen" at the end of prayers appears in the Canons of Hippolytus (No. 146) and in the Egyptian Church
Order (p. 101)."

– New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia Thurston, Herbert. "Amen." The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 1. New York: Robert Appleton Company, 1907.

#20 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 06:56 AM | Reply

"Yet another hint of an Egyptian influence in Christianity is the fact that even today, we still end prayers with the word "Amen". Amen-Ra was the chief god of the Egyptians. The Church's main tool for the conversion of the "pagans" was always the appropriation of the local religion's most holy days and rituals. This allowed the locals to feel they were still worshipping the old Gods in the accustomed ways,"

– The Swindle of Truth: Ancient Egypt by Per Ankh

#21 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 06:58 AM | Reply

"AMEN: An Egyptian divinity ... He was worshipped ... as Amen-Ra or ‘Amen the Sun'."

-Smith's Bible Dictionary

#22 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 07:11 AM | Reply

"No other "god" of the Egyptians has left so indelible a stamp upon the world – as this First Father of the Egyptian gods, known as Ammon, Amon and "Amen" which means
"THE ONE HIDDEN WITHIN," Amen's spell is so mighty that over twenty centuries after his last Sanctuary was abandoned to the desert sands, every Judeo-Christian prayer that is uttered – still whispers his name in closing. "

– The Egyptian Mystical Rites by Jerry Clifford Welch

#23 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 07:12 AM | Reply

"No other "god" of the Egyptians has left so indelible a stamp upon the world – as this First Father of the Egyptian gods, known as Ammon, Amon and "Amen" which means
"THE ONE HIDDEN WITHIN," Amen's spell is so mighty that over twenty centuries after his last Sanctuary was abandoned to the desert sands, every Judeo-Christian prayer that is uttered – still whispers his name in closing. "

– The Egyptian Mystical Rites by Jerry Clifford Welch

"When we did it in ignorance, maybe God looked past that. But now that you know the truth, what will you do? Will you continue to use the name of a pagan god to close your prayers? Is it too hard to change that now? Because you've been using the ‘amen' tradition for a long time – will you rationalize and justify why you keep on invoking the name of the Egyptian god, Amen? Will you find a pastor or teacher to reassure you that "it's okay to say ‘amen' – Or ... will you give thanks to God for revealing His truth and stop using the name of a pagan god?"

-And they all Said, "AMEN" by J.D. Roberts

"Again we can see how the pagans have been made welcome, been conciliated, by adopting the name of a pagan deity into the prayers of the Church [of Rome]. This deity became known as ‘Amen-Ra', but he was only known as ‘Amen' among the Thebians."

-The Final Reformation by Chris Koster

"By ending our prayers in ‘amen' ... one could very well ask, "Have we been misled to invoke the name of the Egyptian ‘Sun-god' at the end of our prayers"? "

-United Hebrew Congregation by Charles J. Voss

#24 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 07:15 AM | Reply

Corky, you worship the sun. You celebrate the sons birth on the winter solstice. You're a closed minded ass that would rather ridicule others while peddling your lie.

That's what's wrong with the world. You have all these religions and no one agrees but everyone thinks they're right and we go around the world blowing ---- up, killing people, and allowing people to starve while folks like yourself live in some posh, gated neighborhood in Naples. Even by your own religious litmus test, you fail miserably.

Kudzu is right. You're the same as a right winger when it comes to this stuff.

And if you were trying to convert a non believer who was ignorant to the facts, you'd fail because you're a hypocrite. Jesus would be ashamed to call you his messenger. Lol

#25 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 07:23 AM | Reply

Sol Invictus ("The Unconquered Sun") was originally a Syrian god who was later adopted as the chief god of the Roman Empire under Emperor Aurelian. His holiday is traditionally celebrated on December 25, as are several gods associated with the winter solstice in many pagan traditions.[7]

en.m.wikipedia.org

More sun god worship

#26 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 07:34 AM | Reply

This person you refer to as Jesus was a very intellectual person who obviously acquired knowledge of the ancients in India or Asia. He was teaching people the same sort of thing people like Freud and Jung have been trying to tell us.

The kingdom is with in you. In other words quit looking outside the real power is within uh oh!! We can't be teaching people that ----. There was no need for temples or alters in Jesus' teachings - no need to pass around a collection plate - just heal the sick and feed the poor. he threatened the Jews to the point that they could no longer afford to let him continue. Their financial future was in jeopardy, So they killed him.

This whole sacrifice and pagan rituals and the compilation of horse ---- we call the Bible didn't show up until 325 AD Bro Constantine brought that together. There's many other key documents that never made their way into that document. Constantine took every pagan, Jew, Greek, and so called Christian and shoved them into one universal religion - the Catholic Church. That's why christians have to make excuses for all their pagan rituals they still follow to this day.

#27 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 08:02 AM | Reply

Happy Easter.

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2017-04-16 08:33 AM | Reply

Happy Ishtar

redice.tv

#29 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 08:40 AM | Reply

#25

CORKY worships what he means to worship. Today is a good day. Enjoy it, even the pagan jellybeans.

#30 | Posted by Zed at 2017-04-16 09:51 AM | Reply

Left, I only have time for a drive-by, but a few notes:
-The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the Biblical canon, and your description re: Constantine is inaccurate.
-"Easter" has a Germanic etymology, not a Semitic one.
-"Amen", while similar to the Egyptian name Amen/Amun/Ammon, has no traceable link to that name. Hebrew and Egyptian are both in the Afro-Asiatic language family, however, and the two words may share a common root, in the same way that English and Sanskrit share cognates.

Corky, it might be better to link to secular sites, rather than Bethinking, Credohouse, or ColdCaseChristianity.

Ciao for now.

#31 | Posted by TheTom at 2017-04-16 10:10 AM | Reply

Tom,

I can tell you were in a hurry. Having trouble following what you responded. Chat later?

#32 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2017-04-16 10:19 AM | Reply

POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

The '70's called and want their New Age philosophy back.

- Your God lines everyone up for paddlings no matter if they are good or bad.

#16 | POSTED BY KUDZU

Sorry, but Christianity isn't about behavior or will power or good deeds. It is about faith, hope, and love. But I try not to blame people who are confused about this because they apparently get what they think they know about Christianity from TV evangelists, who also have no clue.

#31

Your info is accurate, as opposed to anything Lft said, but I have no qualms about posting the same info from apologist sites, as I have no qualms about being a Christian apologist.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-16 03:59 PM | Reply

Liberal provocateur Chris Hedges writes: 'I Don't Believe in Atheists'

www.truthdig.com

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2017-04-16 04:22 PM | Reply

#32 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS
"Having trouble following what you responded."

I'll try to be clearer this time.

My "The Council of Nicaea had nothing to do with the Biblical canon, and your description re: Constantine is inaccurate" was in response to your "the compilation of horse ---- we call the Bible didn't show up until 325 AD Bro Constantine brought that together" in #27.

My "Easter has a Germanic etymology, not a Semitic one" was in response to your link in #21. That one makes the rounds every Easter, but it's completely inaccurate.

My "Amen" comment was in response to your posts #18-24.

Finally, much of your posts on equating Jesus worship with sun worship sounds a lot like the religion section of Zeitgeist. I enjoy the Zeitgeist movies, and I think there are some great ideas in them, but Peter Joseph really blew it in the religion section.

#35 | Posted by TheTom at 2017-04-16 06:24 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2017 World Readable

-->
Drudge Retort