Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, March 19, 2017

Andrew Prokop, Vox: In the day-to-day crush of news, it's easy to lose perspective. And this year especially, it's easy for the abnormal to become normal. So let's be clear: If President Trump truly does have no evidence to back up his accusation that President Obama tapped his phones -- as increasingly seems to be the case -- he has viciously slandered his predecessor with a bogus accusation. ... This is absurd. It's also appalling. Not even two months into this presidency, we've attuned ourselves to the appalling. Statements that would have caused a major scandal now barely raise an eyebrow.

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Trumphumpers celebrate that Trump lies make Honest Americans angry.

It's all they require to love him.

#1 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2017-03-19 11:12 AM | Reply

Are We Becoming Desensitized to Trump's Appalling Lies?

That's their plan.

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2017-03-19 12:36 PM | Reply

Donnie is wearing Americans down.

In another couple months he'll become white noise.

America is already beyond screwed.

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-19 12:38 PM | Reply

The Trumper

I am just a poor boy.
Though my story's seldom told,
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocketful of mumbles,
Such are promises

All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.

Lie-la-lie...

In the clearing stands a Trumper,
And a Rwinger by his trade
And he carries the reminders
Of ev'ry policy that laid him down
And cut him till he cried out
In his anger and his shame,

"I am leaving, I am leaving."
But the Trumper still remains

Lie-la-lie...

{apologies to S & G}

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2017-03-19 12:44 PM | Reply

Yes we are becoming desensitized to false claims. Trump and his underlings lie constantly. The worst elements of our media constantly lie. The "respectable" portion of our media engages in constant exaggeration, over the top hyperbole and the forwarding of conclusions not supported by fact (basically lying with plausible deniability). Part of being an American is dealing with constant attempts to manipulate us with less than honest rhetoric. We are bombarded by -------- on a daily basis from various sources with various agendas. Sane people can't muster outrage over something that is a part of their daily existence.

#5 | Posted by Sully at 2017-03-19 01:17 PM | Reply

I called this a few month's ago.

The media reports to much crap that the general public will and has lost interest in what President Trump does day to day. Resulting in, the fact that when he finally does something horribly wrong, the general public won't notice.

Unfortunately as gal_tuesday likes to point out often President Trump tells a lie and repeats it till it's becomes a false truth that is accepted by the masses. The Trump administration is doing this and will continue to because the press eating it up, which makes it all possible.

The media needs to do better, it needs stop trying to be first with the story and start being the most accurate instead. Regain its credibility, otherwise it will get way worse.

#6 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2017-03-19 02:06 PM | Reply

"When he (Donald) finally does something horribly wrong the public won't notice"

Depends entirely upon how much he makes them bleed, wouldn't you say?

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2017-03-19 02:38 PM | Reply

One would almost think that the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 were bad things. America needs to wake the hell up.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2017-03-19 04:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

One would almost think that the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine and the Telecommunications Act of 1996 were bad things. America needs to wake the hell up.
#8 | Posted by danni

It takes about a week without food to wake them up.

Remember the question: how do you know when a politician is lying? When he opens his mouth.

#9 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 04:55 PM | Reply

Are any right wingers on this site going to come out and acknowledged that they too are appalled by Trump's lies? Or are they gonna keep deflecting? Because have no doubt, deflection = dishonesty + complicity, in this context.

#10 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 05:19 PM | Reply

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Are any right wingers on this site going to come out and acknowledged that they too are appalled by Trump's lies?

I don't identify with right wingers. But as I said in #9, I expect them all to lie.

A question for left wingers. Are you appalled by Obama's and Hillary's lies?

#11 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 05:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It takes just one post, ONE POST, for someone to deflect to Obama AND Hillary. Pathetic. Why can't right wingers or even just moderate conservatives simply acknowledge what an appalling piece of garbage Trump actually is and leave it at that that? Why are they so unable to view Trump without immediately feeling the desperate need to somehow shore him up by mentioning other politicians? It is really fascinating in a way.

Just as so many HRC supporters on this site were unable to support HRC without using comparisons to Trump or the rest of the GOP. They were (and mostly remain) unable to comprehend that in isolation, in her own right, she was unacceptable. Here, Trumpians seem unable to admit that in his own right, Trump is a piece of ----. It is so, so, so pathetic. And this constant form of deflection and comparison is the bedrock on which they build their ongoing support for a truly crappy leader. I lack the words to articulate just how repugnant these Trumpians really are.

#12 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

A question for left wingers. Are you appalled by Obama's and Hillary's lies?

Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 05:26 PM | Reply

It's a crime around here to point that out.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 06:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

LM: Why do you play into Ray's deflection? It is --------.

#14 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:08 PM | Reply

LM: Why do you play into Ray's deflection? It is --------.

Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:08 PM | Reply

You can't condemn the other party if you aren't willing to hold your own accountable whi9ch the Democrats failed to do.

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 06:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm not.

#16 | Posted by Tor at 2017-03-19 06:11 PM | Reply

#12 | Posted by moder8

I have no interest in defending Trump. And I don't identify with him. Once he took the oath of office, he stopped being a moral being.

Again, I expect politicians to lie and abuse the power of office. They do it at every level of government. This is the nature of the beast.

I became desensitized to political -------- by Reagan's second term. I haven't voted since. To me, this is one of those "so what's new?" occasions. That's why the complaints against him seem petty.

It takes just one post, ONE POST, for someone to deflect to Obama AND Hillary.

Not an attempt at deflection. But to prove a point that the left is tolerant towards their own as the right is tolerant towards their own. I guess it goes back to our tribal roots.

I lack the words to articulate just how repugnant these Trumpians really are.

If you can agree with me that Hillary and Obama are equally repugnant, then we're making progress.

#17 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 06:13 PM | Reply

But it is deflection. If you want to complain about what an unacceptable p-o-s HRC is, that's for another thread. Here the thread is about Trump's appalling lies and how many of you (apparently including you LM) are willing to gloss over them via deflection. Put another way, don't you ever again accuse someone of deflecting on another thread if you are unable to see how you are deflecting here and how your deflections empower Trumpians. It is obvious.

This is how Trump survives unscathed. Any time the topic of Trump comes up, there is an army of you waiting to respond by complaining about some other politician. Surely some of you have to be smart enough to understand that?

#18 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:20 PM | Reply

But it is deflection. If you want to complain about what an unacceptable p-o-s HRC is, that's for another thread. Here the thread is about Trump's appalling lies and how many of you (apparently including you LM) are willing to gloss over them via deflection. Put another way, don't you ever again accuse someone of deflecting on another thread if you are unable to see how you are deflecting here and how your deflections empower Trumpians. It is obvious.

This is how Trump survives unscathed. Any time the topic of Trump comes up, there is an army of you waiting to respond by complaining about some other politician. Surely some of you have to be smart enough to understand that?

Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:20 PM | Reply

I'm not glossing over them I am stating clean your house FIRST before you start condemning others.

#19 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 06:26 PM | Reply

"If you can agree with me that Hillary and Obama are equally repugnant, then we're making progress."

No. I won't lie. that is a bull ---- claim, it isn't true and only a liar would try to use it as a point. It isn't even close to being true, you really are just a trumping liar.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2017-03-19 06:28 PM | Reply

Danni #20: So the deflection is successful and now the topic shifts away from solely being on Trump to relative comparisons of other politicians. Well done Ray. Both LM and Danni played right into your gambit. Like I predicted. Trumpians walk away feeling righteous because they have pointed the finger at another politician. And that is how it is done!

#21 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:31 PM | Reply

LM: Clean my house? What house is that? I'm talking about Trump. For god's sake, can't you see how easily you are manipulated and distracted by Trumpian deflections? You know it is ridiculous when you find yourself somehow arguing that an anti-HRC voter like me has to denounce HRC PRIOR to saying anyting critical of Trump. It is absurd. Worse than that, you unwittingly enable Trump.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:34 PM | Reply

LM: Clean my house? What house is that? I'm talking about Trump. For god's sake, can't you see how easily you are manipulated and distracted by Trumpian deflections? You know it is ridiculous when you find yourself somehow arguing that an anti-HRC voter like me has to denounce HRC PRIOR to saying anyting critical of Trump. It is absurd. Worse than that, you unwittingly enable Trump.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

WOW Me being manipulated that's a gasbag. I wasn't manipulated when I voted for 3rd party candidate I wasn't manipulated with the deflections that tried to cover for Hillary's dastardly deeds. No you can't manipulate this gal. I have the ability to think for myself. People like you just can't stand that.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 06:37 PM | Reply

Hillary is clearly as big of a liar as Trump.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-19 06:39 PM | Reply

But it is deflection.
#18 | Posted by moder8

In other words you are going to make a lot of noise without answering the question.
I gave my answer. But you can't give yours.

I get it.

#25 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 06:40 PM | Reply

Ask it on a thread about HRC. But stop trying to hijack this thread. You see, that's what people like you do. You deflect. And then well meaning people like LM and Danni don't realize they have been deflected. And when it is pointed out to them they get defensive. And in no time at all the topic has switched completely away from the topic at hand. Again, well done. Your gambit worked. Now you even have JeffJ pitching in.

The dishonesty of it all is sickening.

#26 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Mod8,

I was just giving you a hard time with my post.

I agree with your argument. I was just having fun with you.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-19 06:44 PM | Reply

Let's go back to before any of the deflection began and try it again:


Are any right wingers on this site going to come out and acknowledged that they too are appalled by Trump's lies? Or are they gonna keep deflecting? Because have no doubt, deflection = dishonesty + complicity, in this context.

#10 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2017-03-19 05:19 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

#28 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:46 PM | Reply

#26 | Posted by moder8

You could have saved an hour of writing blather if you answered the question.
A simple question. Then we could have moved on.

Are any right wingers on this site going to come out and acknowledged that they too are appalled by Trump's lies?

What does that make me if I'm not a right winger and I'm not appalled by Trump's lies?
Just curious.

#29 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 06:52 PM | Reply

Ray is just another rwinger making ludicrous equivalencies.

The parties are not the same, as should be apparent to even the dimmest bulb, especially since Jan 20.

Hillary Clinton rated as the most truthful candidate in the last election, including Sanders, who was nowhere near the liar Trump is.

If Trump doesn't lie every day, somewhere a Muslim gets his wings.

Psychological desensitization, such as having a person who is afraid of heights taking an additional step up a ladder each session, has longed been used in politics and media to change things people would normally not want changed... such as believing a known and practiced liar.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2017-03-19 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It is hardly blathering to point out the despicable tactics used by Trumpians and Republicans to avoid discussing how "We're Becoming Desensitized To Trump's Appalling Lies". See? Back to the actual topic of the thread. See if you can stay on it.

#31 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Ray is just another rwinger making ludicrous equivalencies.

Sorry to disappoint, Corky. I do not identify with any political ideology.

Hillary Clinton rated as the most truthful candidate in the last election, including Sanders, who was nowhere near the liar Trump is.

Thank you for answering the question. You made Moder8 look like a weasel.

#32 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 07:03 PM | Reply

What does that make me if I'm not a right winger and I'm not appalled by Trump's lies?
Just curious.

#29 | Posted by Ray

Well, I thought you were dead.

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2017-03-19 07:34 PM | Reply

What does that make me if I'm not a right winger and I'm not appalled by Trump's lies?

A liar and an idiot.

But. That's apparent from reading your posts.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-19 07:37 PM | Reply

Well, I thought you were dead.
#33 | Posted by Zed

I was resurrected on the Ides of March. Now I've come back as a god.

#35 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 07:41 PM | Reply

I think one of the reasons Trump has been so successful at getting ordinary Americans to accept his lies as par for the course is because there is an actual infrastructure in place to either reinforce those lies, or make them seem like partial truths, or make them seem somehow like 'honest mistakes'. Which, of course, is utter bull----. From Rush Limbaugh to FoxNews to Breitbart and so forth, there is a large group of well funded interests with a keen self-interest in not allowing the vast majority of Americans to realize just what a criminally dishonest man Trump really is.

Thank god for SNL. They are just about the only media outlet that has not blinked.

#36 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 07:52 PM | Reply

Americans of all stripes had a duty, a moral, ethical, economic, patriotic obligation to keep the presidency out of the hands of Donald Trump. The man is a danger not just to the US Constitution by to the entire world. The man is corrupt to his bones, a liar, a racist, sexist pig who daily flouts the laws of our country. He should have been impeached DAY 1.

One cannot keep up with the despicable speech and actions coming from his abomination of his administration.

Hey remember when he insulted the judicial branch?

How bout when his attorney general perjured himself to Congress?

Remember when he called the press the enemy of the American people?

How about his National Security advisor having to resign less then a month after taking office?

Or how about a week ago when he offhandedly tweets that Obama committed a major crime? right before tweeting about The Apprentice ratings?

Or the good old days when he said he wouldn't be golfing?

This week we got to see him plan on taking health insurance from millions and claiming feeding old people is not productive.

The man is a vile piece of ---- and Americans FAILED in their duty.

#37 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-03-19 07:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 7

Thank god for SNL. They are just about the only media outlet that has not blinked.

#36 | Posted by moder8

I wish Jon Stewart was around. Trevor Noah couldn't hold a candle to him.

#38 | Posted by truthhurts at 2017-03-19 07:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#37: Well said.

#39 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 07:55 PM | Reply

We are becoming desensitized to Trump's lies due to the sheer volume of them, the lack of any consequence being attached to them and his utter lack of shame about them.

#40 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-19 08:03 PM | Reply

I don't expect Trump to feel shame. But I would have hoped his supporters would have been ashamed. At least a good percentage of them. Instead they circle the wagons and have a siege mentality wherein everything Trump says and does must be defended.

#41 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 08:05 PM | Reply

It is because they see themselves as on his team and his loss is their loss. Criticism of Trump results in them defending their team.
I think applauding Trump for screwing poor white folk will be more effective in getting his base to acknowledge reality.

#42 | Posted by bored at 2017-03-19 08:15 PM | Reply

And, indeed, Trump is screwing over poor white folk. Do they even realize? And when they do, how many of them will have the honesty to acknowledge it? Pretty sad.

#43 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 08:22 PM | Reply

"I wasn't manipulated when I voted for 3rd party candidate " - #23 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 06:37 PM

Bullshizzle.

You repeated the lies about Senator Clinton from the fake news site, transadvocate .com, as if they were Gospel.

And you've never been honest enough to admit that fact.

"I have the ability to think for myself. "

Should we cry at that delusion?

Or just laugh?

I choose laugh.

#44 | Posted by Hans at 2017-03-19 08:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#35 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 07:41 PM

Hello Raytradamus.

#45 | Posted by Hans at 2017-03-19 08:27 PM | Reply

Hi Hans.

You libs should stop over at zerohedge.com once in a while.

This poster makes you guys look like wimps.

www.zerohedge.com

#46 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 08:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

ou repeated the lies about Senator Clinton from the fake news site, transadvocate .com, as if they were Gospel.

And you've never been honest enough to admit that fact.

"I have the ability to think for myself. "

Should we cry at that delusion?

Or just laugh?

I choose laugh.

Posted by Hans at 2017-03-19 08:24 PM | Reply

Hans credibility shot to hell. Transadvocate.com is a news site for transgender issues.

OOPSIE DAISY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#47 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 08:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You libs should stop over at zerohedge.com once in a while." - #46 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-19 08:37 PM

I've heard tell that Comic-Con is a lot of fun, too.

#48 | Posted by Hans at 2017-03-19 08:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Hans credibility shot to hell. " - #47 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-19 08:40 PM

Considering the source

"Transadvocate.com is a news site for transgender issues."

Not really.

It is a fake news sire.

OOPSIE DAISY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#49 | Posted by Hans at 2017-03-19 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't have to be "appalled" by his lies. I recognize them for what they are.

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2017-03-19 09:47 PM | Reply

- Now I've come back as a god.

.... with dyslexia.

(not that they actually see letters backwards, but that's the popular myth}

#51 | Posted by Corky at 2017-03-19 09:50 PM | Reply

It's your own FAULT!!!!

you Demos keep bringing butter knives to a samurai sword fight.

Man Up, Dammit! Stop being such P's. this is serious.

#52 | Posted by kudzu at 2017-03-20 06:53 AM | Reply

Trump is a terrible person. He's proven to be incompetent at his current job. He shows an amazing lack of judgment with his continued tweeting.

All that being said, I don't believe that Trump is the cause of our desensitization of lies from the White House. Those lies, and the acceptance of them started long ago. Nixon's lies led to his resignation. Reagan's lies led to a Dem controlled House & Seante. Bush Sr.'s got us Clinton. Clinton's got himself impeached, but saved by Dems in the Senate. Bush Jr.'s got us into a long drawn-out war and a hugely motivated opposition party. Obama's lies, cheered by the media, caused the loss of any respect for that media by the populace.

Trump's lies, weak and feeble as they are, are just part of the trend. He behaves like a (spoiled) private citizen, not the voice of the White House. Unfortunately, the best method of standing up against the lies weakened and discredited themselves during the last administration, so they aren't there to protect people now.

#53 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-03-20 08:28 AM | Reply

It is hardly blathering to point out the despicable tactics used by Trumpians and Republicans to avoid discussing how "We're Becoming Desensitized To Trump's Appalling Lies". See? Back to the actual topic of the thread. See if you can stay on it.

#31 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-19 06:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I agree with you that "Hillary is a liar too!" isn't really helpful in that it is just shifting from one of thousands of examples to another.

But do you think it is possible to have in intelligent conversation about why Americans seem desensitized to Trump's lies without looking at the environment Americans live in?

Americans are constantly bombarded with deceptive attempts to manipulate them. You can't rationallly discuss why they are "desnsitized to Trump's lies" without first acknowledging that we are desensitized to being lied to in general.

You're getting mad at people for being partisan but the topic itself is being presented in a partisan fashion. Americans are not just desensitized to Trump's lies. We are desensitized to be being lied to and misled and manipulated because we are bombarded with this garbage 24/7. People adapt to their environment. It wouldn't be mentally healthy to get upset over something that happens to you constantly.

It is true that Trump is a despicable liar and certain people will defend him no matter what. But they're not worth talking about really. If you are wondering by normal people aren't more outraged by Trump's lies it is because they are accustomed to being lied to. Not that confusing.

#54 | Posted by Sully at 2017-03-20 09:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sully gets a NW.

That was very well-stated and pretty much kills this thread.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 10:25 AM | Reply

It is true that Trump is a despicable liar and certain people will defend him no matter what. But they're not worth talking about really. If you are wondering by normal people aren't more outraged by Trump's lies it is because they are accustomed to being lied to. Not that confusing.

#54 | Posted by Sully

But WHY is it legal to lie to everyone all the time?

Because elections are legalized bribery, and corporations own the government.

Public election funding could go a long way toward fixing this.

#56 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-03-20 11:14 AM | Reply

But WHY is it legal to lie to everyone all the time? - #56 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-03-20 11:14 AM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

#57 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-03-20 11:23 AM | Reply

#54: I agree with that post Sully. The general climate of 'everyone lies' definitely plays a big role in why Trump is so able to lie with impunity now. And you express that well. What Ray was doing was something different. He was not making an argument. Just a deflection to HRC and Obama... that worked to some degree.

#58 | Posted by moder8 at 2017-03-20 12:34 PM | Reply

Remember when Trump said he wasn't in it for the money and that he was going to lose money if he became president but that he loved the country so much he was willing to sacrifice? Balderdash:

2 Months In, Trump May Already Own A First: Most Corrupt POTUS. Ever.

Ethics experts cannot think of a predecessor more ready to use the prestige of the office for personal gain.

www.huffingtonpost.com

#59 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 12:42 PM | Reply

If you are wondering by normal people aren't more outraged by Trump's lies it is because they are accustomed to being lied to. Not that confusing.

People care about the lies when they feel the lies are significant enough and/or when they feel the lies affect them adversely. Trump's lies about health care may be enough to cross the partisan divide, at least for some of his supporters. People also care about the lies when they can see for a fact they are lies. Take, for example, Bush's Katrina comments about FEMA. He said, "You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie" but when people turned on their TVs, they could see this wasn't the case.

#60 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 12:49 PM | Reply

"Sully gets a NW.
That was very well-stated and pretty much kills this thread."

No, it doesn't. Although it can sometimes take years, the lies eventually catch up with people. The question really is, when will Trump's lies catch up with him? Eventually all but the most ardent Bush supporters came to recognize invading Iraq was ill-conceived and didn't live up to the pre-war justification and hype. It took years for that to happen and Bush did get re-elected in the interim, but it did happen.

#61 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Donnie's lies. His tweets. His behavior.

Are all a calculated stage show.

Congress is actively passing bills while the country focuses on the Orange buffoon.

#62 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 12:59 PM | Reply

= 'everyone lies' definitely plays a big role in why Trump

No one lies like Trump. Making equivalencies as if they do is... sad. Usually done by rwingers or those who like to pretend they are above the fray because they are not, "party hacks".

You know... they are "special".

#63 | Posted by Corky at 2017-03-20 01:02 PM | Reply

- Are all a calculated stage show.

Bingo.

#64 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-03-20 01:02 PM | Reply

Speaking of a 'calculated stage show'...

#63 | POSTED BY CORKY

#65 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2017-03-20 01:05 PM | Reply

But WHY is it legal to lie to everyone all the time?

#56 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-03-20 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't think you can make it illegal. And it is very hard to prove that someoe is lying as opposed to just being wrong.

I agree that politicians would lie less if there was less money involved.

#66 | Posted by Sully at 2017-03-20 01:14 PM | Reply

People care about the lies when they feel the lies are significant enough and/or when they feel the lies affect them adversely. Trump's lies about health care may be enough to cross the partisan divide, at least for some of his supporters.

#60 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's true. When Trump takes away peoples' healthcare, they will be angry and they will call him a liar. But if they don't care about this other lies then the issue really is that he took away their healtchare, not that he lied.

#67 | Posted by Sully at 2017-03-20 01:19 PM | Reply

"When Trump takes away peoples' healthcare, they will be angry and they will call him a liar. But if they don't care about this other lies then the issue really is that he took away their healtchare, not that he lied."

It's both. He lied about it, and they believed him, and they voted for him. If they had known he was lying about not taking away their healthcare, they might not have voted for him. Yes, ultimately they are mad about losing their healthcare, but they will also be mad that they were deceived during the election about it.

Some people don't care about his other lies because, as I said, they don't feel they are that significant or those lies don't affect them directly. Some people don't care about his other lies, because they think they are the truth. Trump has gotten a lot of praise from people for "telling it like it is". Once some people see Trump lied about healthcare, that may open the door in their minds to the possibility that he lied about other things. Then it will just be a matter of how important individual voters consider those other lies to be.

#68 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 01:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's both. He lied about it, and they believed him, and they voted for him. If they had known he was lying about not taking away their healthcare, they might not have voted for him. Yes, ultimately they are mad about losing their healthcare, but they will also be mad that they were deceived during the election about it.

#68 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-03-20 01:32 PM | Reply

They will say its both so fair enough.

I question how much one really cares about lying if one only cares about one of his hundres of lies but many people are self deluding so maybe their feelings will be hurt by that one lie and only that lie.

#69 | Posted by Sully at 2017-03-20 01:50 PM | Reply

My position is that ALL politicians lie. Followers of Sanders, Clinton and Trump believe their candidate is the only one who doesn't lie. That's a sure sign of gullibility.

Here's the top five from Saint Sanders platform. berniesanders.com

Income and Wealth Inequality
It's Time to Make College Tuition Free and Debt Free
Getting Big Money Out of Politics and Restoring Democracy
Creating Jobs Rebuilding America
A Living Wage

Those promises are older than me.

Where's the freakin money going to come from? Who's going to pay?
Government can't create jobs without destroying jobs in the private economy.
When it destroys jobs in the private economy, it reduces its tax base.
When it reduces the tax base, it has to borrow.
When it's been borrowing for the past fifty years, it's accumulates debt beyond all means.

You lefties are screwed and don't know it.

#70 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 08:28 PM | Reply

You lefties are screwed...

But the "righties" are all good since their fantasies are paid for?

#71 | Posted by REDIAL at 2017-03-20 08:44 PM | Reply

Income and Wealth Inequality

It exists. How is this a lie?

It's Time to Make College Tuition Free and Debt Free

This isn't a lie. It's a concept.

We're the only 1st world nation not providing for our citizens.

Seems other nations value intelligence more than Americans.

Getting Big Money Out of Politics and Restoring Democracy

Again. Not a lie. And actually something we should do if we want to eliminate corruption and rich/corporate control over our government.

Creating Jobs Rebuilding America

Spend the money we're wasting on wars in the Middle East and rebuild America. Again. Not a lie.

A Living Wage

There's enough money produced in America to pay employees a living wage.

Ray.

You apparently have no clue what a lie actually is.

You're a selfish scared little man.

#72 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 08:56 PM | Reply

When it reduces the tax base, it has to borrow.
When it's been borrowing for the past fifty years, it's accumulates debt beyond all means....
.
#70 | POSTED BY RAY

And that doesn't even take into account over $120 Trillion in unfunded liabilities (promises of payments in the future that have no funding).

#73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 08:58 PM | Reply

But the "righties" are all good since their fantasies are paid for?
#71 | Posted by REDIAL

I was addressing this audience.

Financial collapses don't about political labels.

#74 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 09:00 PM | Reply

And that doesn't even take into account over $120 Trillion in unfunded liabilities (promises of payments in the future that have no funding).
#73 | Posted by JeffJ

On $4 trillion receipts too.

Every politician operates on what Mencken called an advanced auction on stolen goods.

#75 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 09:04 PM | Reply

And that doesn't even take into account over $120 Trillion in unfunded liabilities (promises of payments in the future that have no funding).

#73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 08:58 PM | Reply | Flag

Spreading that bs right winged scare tactic even after I showed you were full of BS. No credibility NONE whatsoever.

#76 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-20 09:08 PM | Reply

#72 | Posted by ClownShack

Thanks for making my point.

#77 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 09:09 PM | Reply

76 | Posted by LauraMoh

Notice the trendline on this curve. It doubles about every nine years. That's just the bonded debt on $4 trillion income.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Unfunded liabilities reach $100 trillion
nationalinterest.org

I don't know how you can say Jeff is full of BS.

BTW, $100 trillion is a conservative number. Nobody knows the real amount.

#78 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 09:16 PM | Reply

I don't know how you can say Jeff is full of BS

According to her, if we can afford trillion dollar wars we can afford anything.

Actuarial math plays no role on her thinking on this particular issue.

#79 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 09:22 PM | Reply

"And that doesn't even take into account over $120 Trillion in unfunded liabilities (promises of payments in the future that have no funding).
#73 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Remind me, which party signs the Grover Norquist no tax pledge?
Remind me, do you think that's a reasonable way to take unfunded liabilities into account?

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-03-20 09:29 PM | Reply

Thanks for making my point.
#77 | POSTED BY RAY

You had a point?

I was mostly pointing out how dumb you are.

#81 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 09:37 PM | Reply

www.theatlantic.com

1) That's not our debt. Our $16 trillion in debt and our $87 trillion in "unfunded liabilities" represent two very different ideas: real past promises and projected future promises. Real past promises are, well, very real. We have to pay back our debt. Failing to do it would be an illegal and disastrous default. Unfunded liabilities are future promises, and, since they're not as real, we can change them whenever we want without destroying ourselves. For example, raising the taxable income ceiling and slowing the growth of benefits could reduce the Social Security gap to zero tomorrow.

And that's if there is a Social Security "gap" to begin with. Technically, it's not legal for Social Security to have "unfunded liabilities" since it can only pay as many benefits as it receives in earmarked taxes. Both it and Medicare hospital insurance are prohibited from spending money they haven't collected from specific revenue dedicated to their programs (i.e.: payroll taxes). It is impossible for either to technically be "unfunded", since they cannot legally outspend their funding.

#82 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-03-20 09:45 PM | Reply

You had a point?
#81 | Posted by ClownShack

You're gullible.

Sanders was working from the same playbook every other politician works from.
They make promises they know the can't keep. Or if they do keep a promise, that mean more debt and taxes.

As for how it's going to get pay for this stuff. He's going to tax the rich.

berniesanders.com

Even the 16th Amendment which sanctioned income taxes was sold at a tax on the rich. 2% at that time.

I've been following elections since Eisenhower. It's the same -------- every election season.

I'll give you some slack if you are under forty. If you are over forty, there is no hope for you.

#83 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 10:07 PM | Reply

Our $16 trillion in debt and our $87 trillion in "unfunded liabilities

That article was written in 2012. It's $20 trillion now. Obama about doubled the debt during his eight years.

Real past promises are, well, very real. We have to pay back our debt. Failing to do it would be an illegal and disastrous default. Unfunded liabilities are future promises, and, since they're not as real, we can change them whenever we want without destroying ourselves.

FYI, they've been rolling over past debts since the sixties. When SOP is to kick the can down the road, they're not going to stop at the eleventh hour.

It is impossible for either to technically be "unfunded", since they cannot legally outspend their funding.
Legalities never stopped them in the past.

It's political suicide to prevent problems from happening. There has to be a crises before the people want them to do something. Assume they are going to continue spending at an accelerating rate until they default, and you won't be wrong. It's what governments do.

#84 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 10:27 PM | Reply

And that's if there is a Social Security "gap" to begin with. Technically, it's not legal for Social Security to have "unfunded liabilities" since it can only pay as many benefits as it receives in earmarked taxes. Both it and Medicare hospital insurance are prohibited from spending money they haven't collected from specific revenue dedicated to their programs (i.e.: payroll taxes). It is impossible for either to technically be "unfunded", since they cannot legally outspend their funding.

#82 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Which means:

A) They welch on their promises and tens of millions of seniors are without healthcare because the funding isn't there.

B? They continue borrowing to the tune of roughly $100 trillion on top of our existing debt and literally bankrupt the country, forcing the government to welch on their promises and tens of millions of seniors are without healthcare.

Heck, even if certain senior try to hedge against this by self-insuring, they then lose all of their Social Security benefits that they spent their entire life paying into.

Your linked article doesn't address mathematical reality. It simply denies reality by claiming that it simply can't happen because it's against the law. It was against the law in Greece too, but there they are.

#85 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 10:27 PM | Reply

Ray,

Based upon a prior conversation on this site (if memory serves), Clown is in his mid-30's (about 10 years younger than me but twice as ugly).

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 10:28 PM | Reply

Remind me, which party signs the Grover Norquist no tax pledge...

#80 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

If you think it's actuarially possible to tax our unfunded liabilities (on top of existing debt) into solvency, I've got a bridge to sell you.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-03-20 10:31 PM | Reply

Sanders was working from the same playbook every other politician works from.

Sad. You keep insisting on things you can't provide citations for.

And you're unable to tell what a lie is. As I pointed out in #72

He's going to tax the rich.

Good. You say that like it's a bad thing. Tax the rich. They're a bunch of crooks.

#88 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 10:36 PM | Reply

Based upon a prior conversation on this site (if memory serves), Clown is in his mid-30's (about 10 years younger than me but twice as ugly).
#86 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Yea. But my dick is twice as long. :)

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 10:50 PM | Reply

Good. You say that like it's a bad thing. Tax the rich. They're a bunch of crooks.

And they keep getting richer.

You keep insisting on things you can't provide citations for.

There are none. You have to the process of thinking why things never turn out as they promise.

And you're unable to tell what a lie is.

It looks like a stalemate. I give up.

#90 | Posted by Ray at 2017-03-20 10:56 PM | Reply

And they keep getting richer.

Then there should be no problem taxing them.

Why don't you take a look at tax rates during the 50s, 60s , and 70s. You know. That era when America was great. When America was the world leader. When our economy was its strongest. Unemployment was low. The American Dream was alive and kicking.

You have to the process of thinking why things never turn out as they promise.

Things don't turn out the way politicians claim they "want to". Because of corruption. Because money buys politicians. Because the rich pay.

Bernie made all his money from individual, small amount, donors.

And you're unable to tell what a lie is.

It looks like a stalemate. I give up.
#90 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2017-03-20 10:56 PM | FLAG:

That's cause you're dumb. Probably cause your old and stupid.

Let me clarify. When you say:

"My position is that ALL politicians lie. Followers of Sanders ... believe their candidate is the only one who doesn't lie. That's a sure sign of gullibility.
Here's the top five from Saint Sanders platform. berniesanders.com
Income and Wealth Inequality
It's Time to Make College Tuition Free and Debt Free
Getting Big Money Out of Politics and Restoring Democracy
Creating Jobs Rebuilding America
A Living Wage"

Income/Wealth inequality isn't a lie. It's real.

Tuition free college isn't a lie. It's a concept. And it exists. In a lot of countries. Most of Europe and Canada just to name a few.

Getting big money out of politics is an absolute must. It's the reason politicians are lying nonstop. Again. It's not a lie. It's a really good idea.

Creating jobs rebuilding America. Again. Isn't a lie.

Neither is a living wage.

It's exhausting having to walk you through all this Ray.

You can't just claim Bernie is a liar because you disagree with him.

And while I don't believe Bernie is a saint who can not lie. I believe he is honest and sincere in his message and his commitment to America and Americans.

#91 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-03-20 11:32 PM | Reply

"If you think it's actuarially possible to tax our unfunded liabilities (on top of existing debt) into solvency"

Nobody said that.
Why shouldn't taxes be raised as part of the solution?
That's the question.
What's your answer?

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-03-21 12:08 AM | Reply

The rich are doing better than ever.
The debt is bigger than ever.
How is taxing them more even the subject of debate?
Are you blind to the obvious, or do you just not believe taxes can be allocated to debt repayment, so you'd rather see governmet go bankrupt and the USA go out of business?

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-03-21 12:13 AM | Reply

"If you think it's actuarially possible to tax our unfunded liabilities (on top of existing debt) into solvency"
Nobody said that.
Why shouldn't taxes be raised as part of the solution?
That's the question.
What's your answer?

#92 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2017-03-21 12:08 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Since giving money to the 1% didn't work last time, this time they will give money to the 1% and kill social programs that benefit the poor. That has always been their answer.

#94 | Posted by 726 at 2017-03-21 11:25 AM | Reply

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