Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, December 01, 2016

Senator Bernie Sanders lambasted Donald Trump for giving Carrier tax incentives to keep 1,000 jobs in America. The deal has widely been seen as a victory for Trump -- he mostly delivered on a campaign promise. But Sanders argues that Carrier and its parent company, United Technologies, are having the last laugh. "In essence, United Technologies (parent of Carrier) took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country," Sanders said in an op-ed in the Washington Post on Thursday.

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Sanders' key point: If corporations want cushy tax cuts, all you have to do is threaten Trump and say "we're moving to Mexico."

"He has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives," Sanders wrote.

On Tuesday, Trump and Carrier announced that they had reached an agreement to keep over 1,000 jobs in Indiana that had been slated to be moved to Mexico. Carrier said it received "incentives" from Indiana, where Vice President-elect Mike Pence is still governor, but declined to specify exactly what sweetened the deal.

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Trump supporters are natural, willing victims.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2016-12-01 10:30 AM | Reply

Hillary supporters are just plain sore losers.

#2 | Posted by cookfish at 2016-12-01 10:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Trump said he was going to use the stick but then gave them a carrot instead.

#3 | Posted by Sully at 2016-12-01 10:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#2 | Posted by cookfish at

Donald's not even going to use Vaseline with people like you.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2016-12-01 11:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Critiques on Bernie Sanders critiquing DJT:
1) President-elect Donald J. Trump does more work in this video (
youtu.be), than Bernie Sanders has ever done during his life as a coffeeshop revoluciónary.


2) In this instance, President-elect Trump did more to save Union jobs, directly, than B.S. has done at anytime throughout his career.

#5 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-12-01 11:13 AM | Reply

#5,
So now, you've come to see that President Obama's actions which protected tens of thousands of jobs in the US auto industry during the great recession of 2007-2009 was good Presidenting?

#6 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2016-12-01 11:40 AM | Reply

Noles: You're linking to a publicity stunt for Oprah to prove Trump does hard work? Get a clue.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2016-12-01 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Obama should have put restrictions on the officers of those companies collecting mega bonuses for screwing up during that time.

Those auto companies were bailed out by taxpayers and the COOs, CEOs, CFOs etc all collected 6 figures "bonuses" during that time...

#8 | Posted by aescal at 2016-12-01 12:04 PM | Reply

Gonoles will still be defending Trump when his own job is outsourced.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2016-12-01 12:12 PM | Reply

Gnoles dude, when you post your pro Trump crap like supporting this when Sanders is obviously right, it reminds me that you need to spend your time chasing around 23 year old coed tail instead of telling people how smart you aren't.

I really hate it when we actually talk about stuff of substance because I forget sometimes and talk to you like a rational adult.

Nobody who isn't already on the "Trump Bandwagon" will be jumping on the "Trump Bandwagon." This is a terrible precedent. If this becomes the norm, it will go down in history like the Fugitive Slave Act or AUF in Iraq.

He just encouraged corporate America to blackmail the government as policy.

#10 | Posted by bocaink at 2016-12-01 12:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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#10 "I really hate it when we actually talk about stuff of substance" -- Where are you doing that? Cause it sure isn't on this website.
Sorry - Rcade.

#11 | Posted by homerj at 2016-12-01 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Noles: You're linking to a publicity stunt for Oprah to prove Trump does hard work? [...] #7 | POSTED BY RCADE

Hahah, isn't it a neat video?
All those people in all those roles were employed by DJT, Jerb-creator.

#12 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-12-01 12:26 PM | Reply

#11 | POSTED BY HOMERJ AT 2016-12-01 12:25 PM | FLAG: A & B conversation with Noles, C-you are a troll.

#13 | Posted by bocaink at 2016-12-01 12:30 PM | Reply

The formula to gains tax breaks under the Trump administration is now established, watch lots of companies do the same thing as Carrier. Trump said he was going to use tariffs to bring back jobs but instead he's going to get a tax break for a company that outsources. He's a fraud, oh wait, we've known that all along. All of us have, even the tools who support him. Being a fraud is just smart business to them.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2016-12-01 12:30 PM | Reply

They got a 700k tax abatement to keep 1000 jobs stateside. Works out to 700$ bucks per job. Each of those jobs will pay more in taxes than that.

I know it hurts Bernie and Dems that 1000 people wont be collecting gibsmedats and unemployment and therefore be voting straight D for the rest of their lives, but those 1000 people will support families and kids will be raised with a *trigger warning* work ethic (aka liberal kryponite),,,,

#15 | Posted by aescal at 2016-12-01 12:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So Sanders would let them go to Mexico? They were ready to move what, would Sanders do? other than just say I'll show them and let them go.

#16 | Posted by Fatman at 2016-12-01 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15, obviously misses the point as always Eddie.

Google the word "Precedent"

No, I didn't spell President wrong.

#17 | Posted by bocaink at 2016-12-01 12:46 PM | Reply

#16, The most logical thing to do is to offer tax breaks to BRING jobs back into the US or even some kind of tax incentive for hiring more workers, as well as incentives for relocating capital stashed in the Caymans back into US banks. Psychologists call that positive reinforcement. Carrier can do whatever they wish far as I'm concerned (Sorry TonyR, hate to use your friends as debate pawns, I get some things are more personal than that), I'd be focused on getting back some of what we have lost.

Psychologists call what Carrier did extortion. (not blackmail, sorry for the error)

#18 | Posted by bocaink at 2016-12-01 12:50 PM | Reply

So Sanders would let them go to Mexico? They were ready to move what, would Sanders do? other than just say I'll show them and let them go.

#16 | Posted by Fatman at 2016-12-01 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Probably nothing, which is what many on here want. It's not even federal money, plus Indiana was already given them incentives which they revoked by still initiating the move. A point lost on many in here who probably either are ignorant or that or don't care.

I'm curious though as even with the released tax incentive details, this still comes out as a huge net loss for Carrier. The only reason I can see they did this deal was he threatened their government contracts.

#19 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2016-12-01 12:50 PM | Reply

"I'm curious though as even with the released tax incentive details, this still comes out as a huge net loss for Carrier. The only reason I can see they did this deal was he threatened their government contracts."

- So would that be extortion or blackmail? I get confused by all of this...I just know it isn't a good model to go with.

#20 | Posted by bocaink at 2016-12-01 12:52 PM | Reply

Jobs don't outsource. Democrats throw a fit. Pretty funny.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 01:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I get confused by all of this...I just know it isn't a good model to go with.

#20 | POSTED BY BOCAINK AT 2016-12-01 12:52 PM | REPLY

So which is it, you are confused or you know? Obviously you are confused or better yet are clueless about how these deals work. I believe the incentive they got was 700k and that is in tax saving incentives. Usually the town or state provides those incentives because it is cheaper than a shuttered plant, paying out the unemployment benefits as well as the residual damage from a closed plant such as local stores that have their business depressed from a closed plant and lower home values. I'm sure there is more to it such as fed tax incentives, reduced gov red tape and yes maybe some pressure to their parent company about future contracts. This is how business is done and for all you Trump haters why don't you go tell those employees who just had their jobs saved before Christmas that the deal was crap and they deserve to get fired while at the same time you want every illegal in this country to get unlimited welfare even if they don't make an attempt at getting a job. Grow up

#22 | Posted by fishpaw at 2016-12-01 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No, no, no, Bernie. You got it all wrong.

Trump is a business genius - almost a God!

He figured out that when a company threatens to move jobs out of the country, all he has to do is to give them money, and all better.

Please note that this is not the same thing as negotiating with terrorists.

And, because he's almost a God, it will never occur to other American businesses to run the same scam.

Thank goodness all you trumpers have made him the next President.

The rest of us were afraid he was a clueless nitwit.

Boy, are OUR faces red.

#23 | Posted by contrecoup at 2016-12-01 01:58 PM | Reply

All this complaining, no alternative solutions.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 02:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Trump got Pence to give Indiana taxpayer money to Carrier to not move. Any other governor who was VP-elect would have turned the keys over to his successor by now. Just saw on the news that the total of "incentives" is actually over $7 million. Yeah, that'll show 'em not to mess with Trump!

#25 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2016-12-01 02:03 PM | Reply

Donnie, the Worst negotiator ever.

At least they're keeping less than half their employees for over $7 million. And perpetual tax breaks. Forever.

This allows them to cut the remaining workers in a couple years and continue to receive the tax cuts forever!

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

this still comes out as a huge net loss for Carrier.

How?

They are still moving.

Now. Instead of all at once.

They do some now. Get their perpetual tax breaks and their payoff.

And then move the rest in the near future.

Carrier just scammed Indiana out of tax revenue and was blessed with additional tax breaks.

So. Where's the loss?

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:11 PM | Reply

Jobs don't outsource. Democrats throw a fit. Pretty funny.

#21 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Bears repeating.

#28 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-12-01 02:12 PM | Reply

Actually, in the grand scheme of things there are activities which bother me a lot, lot more than a major American manufacturing company "extorting" the Federal Government for some tax benefits in exchange for not sending quality high paying jobs to another country. But that's just me. In fact, I think I would invite other manufacturers to "extort" our Federal Government in the same manner. The middle class will not survive if all these long term, well paying jobs are gone.

#29 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-12-01 02:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Jobs don't outsource. Democrats throw a fit. Pretty funny."

You're one of those head can't hold more than one thought at once.

Am I right?

#30 | Posted by contrecoup at 2016-12-01 02:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

All this complaining, no alternative solutions.

How is giving them money and tax breaks a solution?

They're still moving over half their company.

Was there a clause in Donnie's negotiations that stipulates Carrier can never move out of Indiana?

Because.

Otherwise.

It's not a solution.

It's a temporary arrangement.

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:17 PM | Reply

Jobs don't outsource. Democrats throw a fit. Pretty funny.
#21 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Bears repeating.
#28 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2016-12-01 02:12 PM | FLAG:

Jobs ARE outsourcing. Stupid.

Over half the jobs.

The company is only keeping the remainders because it's more profitable for them to take the bribe money and tax breaks.

Unless stipulated otherwise. They can. And will. Move the rest of the company.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:20 PM | Reply

It sends a signal that Trump is will to get personally involved in twisting arms of CEOs in order to keep American jobs from going overseas. This is a good thing imo. And while it indeed may be a "temporary arrangement", the fact that Trump did this indicates to me he will trying to do a lot more when it comes to personally going out on a limb to keep jobs here.

#33 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-12-01 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#31 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2016-12-01 02:17 PM | REPLY

and your solution is... ? Tariffs? Re-training for.. what jobs?

This reminds me of when Democrat states lure jobs from other Democrat states using tax incentives, except nobody talks about it.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 02:31 PM | Reply

this still comes out as a huge net loss for Carrier.

How?

They are still moving.

Now. Instead of all at once.

They do some now. Get their perpetual tax breaks and their payoff.

And then move the rest in the near future.

Carrier just scammed Indiana out of tax revenue and was blessed with additional tax breaks.

So. Where's the loss?

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you think $7 million in tax incentives over a decade covers a $16 million investment and having to pay over a 1000 people on average $25hr versus $5hr win for them? They were already getting massive incentives from Indiana on a yearly basis and they still were going to leave.

#35 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2016-12-01 02:42 PM | Reply

Trump's demands that Carrier keep the jobs in USA or face a 35% tax penalty went a little better than his demands that Mexico pay for the wall.

#36 | Posted by 726 at 2016-12-01 02:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

and your solution is... ? Tariffs? Re-training for.. what jobs?

You're deflecting from the fact that this isn't a solution.

It's losing over half the jobs, in exchange Carrier extorts the taxpayers of Indiana and receives tax breaks.

I haven't read anywhere stating Carrier is required to remain in Indiana indefinitely.

So. They'll still pack up the remainder and take off in the future.

#37 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 02:55 PM | Reply

You're deflecting from the fact that this isn't a solution.

#37 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2016-12-01 02:55 PM | FLAG:

again. What's your solution? If this is such a dumb idea, what would you do?

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 03:37 PM | Reply

#35 | POSTED BY DANIEL_3

Obviously it's profitable for Carrier to receive their newly gained tax breaks and 7 million + in taxpayer dollars.

They're not staying at a loss.

Donnie didn't actually have any leverage to keep them had they not found the deal lucrative.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 04:50 PM | Reply

again. What's your solution? If this is such a dumb idea, what would you do?
#38 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2016-12-01 03:37 PM | FLAG:

Again. Throwing a bunch of money and tax exemptions at them to keep less than half their employees for an undisclosed amount of time isn't a solution.

Its politics.

Guy ----- on your face an you're exclaiming how wonderful it smells.

You idiot.

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 04:58 PM | Reply

POSTED BY FISHPAW

What a waste.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 04:59 PM | Reply

Jobs don't outsource. Democrats throw a fit. Pretty funny.

#21 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2016-12-01 01:23 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

Government incentives to help companies stay put, relocate, retain or add jobs have been controversial for a long time. The objections didn't start today. And it's not just Democrats who have been complaining.

#43 | Posted by cbob at 2016-12-01 05:22 PM | Reply

Guy ----- on your face an you're exclaiming how wonderful it smells.
You idiot.

#41 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2016-12-01 04:58 PM | FLAG:

I asked a simple question. What's your solution? You are outraged, but don't have one, and that to me is laughably stupid. At least have an alternative before pissing and moaning like a child.

#44 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 05:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#18 - tariffs are what will bring jobs back not begging.

You use inversion, tariff.

Outsource, tarriff.

Psychologist call that -leveling the playing field.

#45 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2016-12-01 05:47 PM | Reply

What's your solution?

Donnie didn't provide a solution.

And you're praising him for it.

Moron.

No wonder this country is screwed.

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 08:16 PM | Reply

Donald Trump did have leverage but he didn't use it. UTC, Carrier's parent, also owns Pratt and Whitney which profits to the tune of $5.6 BILLION annually. Had Trump truly wanted to negotiate from a position of power, he could have announced he was asking Congress to stop all defense spending to any company offshoring US manufacturing jobs while expecting US taxpayers to buy their products for our military. GE and Rolls Royce makes engines too and likely would be happy to expand their operations to make up for P&W.

But instead, the Indiana taxpayers will foot an additional tax and incentive bill in order to keep less than half the jobs currently here in Indiana. Remember an entire plant employing 700 will still close in Huntington and move to Mexico. Carrier was high profile and Trump adopted their plight during the campaign. That is the main reason for the deal. But as mentioned before, this precedence is not a sustainable model and the very voices praising Trump would have decried Obama if he had negotiated the same deal under the threat of upsetting the business of a private company through the use of government coercion.

I'm happy for the workers who will get to keep their jobs, but no one should ignore how it happened and the future costs and ramifications of this singular decision.

#47 | Posted by tonyroma at 2016-12-01 08:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hillary supporters are just plain sore losers.

#2 | Posted by cookfish

No. We're just smart enough to know your stupidity will cost everyone.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2016-12-01 08:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tony, cant put a ge or rr engine in a f35 or f22. Jet engines are not modular negotiating leverage except in a handful of military planes. Commercial is a different beast.

#49 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 08:48 PM | Reply

Export f35 might have options, but its gimped on purpose to be exported

#50 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-12-01 08:49 PM | Reply


Donnie didn't actually have any leverage to keep them had they not found the deal lucrative.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-01 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

He would have no leverage if you think $60 million in savings is worth losing any percentage of $10 billion in contracts? The hatred has gotten to your heads.

#51 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2016-12-01 09:34 PM | Reply


I'm happy for the workers who will get to keep their jobs, but no one should ignore how it happened and the future costs and ramifications of this singular decision.

#47 | Posted by tonyroma at 2016-12-01 08:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thankfully they will have an additional $2-3million in tax revenue from those jobs to offset the $700k in tax breaks.

#52 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2016-12-01 09:37 PM | Reply

Trump last March:

March 14, 2016 "I'm going to tell the head of Carrier: 'I hope you enjoy your stay in Mexico folks. But every single unit that you make and send across our border, which now will be real, you're going to pay a 35 percent tax,'" Trump said at a campaign stop in Dayton, Ohio, on Saturday. www.npr.org

Nothing the man says is to be believed.

#53 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2016-12-01 10:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Clearly, there aren't many business savvy folks on the Retort. Party before country

#54 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-12-01 10:43 PM | Reply

Party before country

#54 | Posted by CaseyJones FLAG: Projection

#55 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2016-12-01 11:06 PM | Reply

But but but he "saved" how many jobs?!?!?!

Clownshack's point about no indication of an indefinite stay for the company is critical here. The first point considered is that we have not seen any contract or public agreement between Trump's administration and Carrier. So why should we believe the tax incentives handed over to Carrier will spell job savings that last generationally? That's the point of "saving" jobs that only remain for a few years (give or take)? American prosperity was birthed by the stability of jobs and careers that transcended generations. Trump's outcome with Carrier is nice on the surface, but lacks the substance his supporters were promised. For them to claim victory or justification for their Trump support based on this story alone is foolish, yet entertaining as hell.

Hollow shells are all we should expect from this administration. Nice to see the DR posters leave their chips as they lay. Will add much more intrigue as Trump touts his on going "victories."

#56 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2016-12-02 12:20 AM | Reply

Not to mention the tax subsidies they will be receiving probably won't expire.

Add to it the fact they skirted around having to pay tariffs while still moving to Mexico.

It's all smoke and mirrors intended on placating the rubes.

#57 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-12-02 01:25 AM | Reply

"It's all smoke and mirrors intended on placating the rubes"

So true. Those idiotic, red-neck Carrier workers are stupid to believe that keeping 1,100 jobs is a good thing. They should suck it up and go get an education. You've been duped you ignorant Trump supporting fools. Enjoy your job while it lasts suckers.

"Viva La Globalization"

Sincerely,

- The Democratic Party

#58 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-12-02 09:43 AM | Reply

The Carrier deal tells corporate america it can:

1. Threaten to move jobs outside America.
2. Collect a big payoff from the government.
3. Still outsource jobs anyways.

Brilliant!

#59 | Posted by 726 at 2016-12-02 10:11 AM | Reply

You would expect some fringe take on this big win for the Carrier workers, as well as others. I don't fear other companies using this tactic.

#60 | Posted by rudythetoe at 2016-12-02 10:24 AM | Reply

"Carrier workers are stupid to believe that keeping 1,100 jobs is a good thing"

Keeping one's job is always a good thing.

"They should suck it up and go get an education"

You know, that's almost always a very excelent thing, an education.

"You've been duped you ignorant Trump supporting fools"

Yep. All you have to do is view a few of Donald's specific pledges concerning Carrier to see that.

"Enjoy your job while it lasts suckers"

Please do enjoy. Donald enjoyed the photo-op he made off of your lives.

#61 | Posted by Zed at 2016-12-02 10:37 AM | Reply

#5,
So now, you've come to see that President Obama's actions which protected tens of thousands of jobs in the US auto industry during the great recession of 2007-2009 was good Presidenting?

#6 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR

Actually, it was 1.5 million jobs

#62 | Posted by Sycophant at 2016-12-02 12:07 PM | Reply

Carrier does $5.6 billion worth of business with the US Government; about 10% of their total business. They heavily rely on those Federal contracts.

And they just fleeced Trump for $7 million of free money and promises to slash regulations plus additional incentives from Indiana.

Worst Negotiator Ever

#63 | Posted by Sycophant at 2016-12-02 12:15 PM | Reply

Worst Negotiator Ever

#63 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Numerous business bankruptcies should have solidified that point even before he started campaigning.

#64 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2016-12-02 03:14 PM | Reply

Ardent Trump supporters are hilarious to watch. They make islamic apologists look genuine and sincere, hahahahahha.

#65 | Posted by klifferd at 2016-12-02 08:51 PM | Reply

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