Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, November 27, 2016

Eric Chenoweth: In assessing Donald Trump's presidential victory, Americans continue to look away from this election's most alarming story: the successful effort by a hostile foreign power to manipulate public opinion before the vote. U.S. intelligence agencies determined that the Russian government actively interfered in our elections. Russian state propaganda gave little doubt that this was done to support Republican nominee Trump, who repeatedly praised Vladimir Putin and excused the Russian president's foreign aggression and domestic repression. Most significantly, U.S. intelligence agencies have affirmed that the Russian government directed the illegal hacking of private email accounts of the Democratic National Committee and prominent individuals. The emails were then released by WikiLeaks, which has benefited financially from a Russian state propaganda arm, used Russian operatives for security and made clear an intent to harm the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

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Russia's deputy foreign minister, Sergei A. Ryabkov, boasted that government representatives maintained multiple "contacts" during the campaign with Trump's "immediate entourage." (Campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks issued a denial.) This is on top of reported U.S. government suspicions that a Trump adviser met with the intelligence operative directing the hacking. Where are the committee chairmen in Congress demanding an investigation? How is it that Republican Party leaders accept the intervention of a foreign power in the election of their party's presidential candidate?

Eric Chenoweth is co-director of the Institute for Democracy in Eastern Europe.

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"How is it that Republican Party leaders accept the intervention of a foreign power in the election of their party's presidential candidate?"

A lot of them aren't conservatives or even Americans any more.

I'll go out on a limb. I think that Donald Trump stole this election with the assistance of at least one foreign power. Those recounts in Wisconsin and elsewhere are going to be real important to anyone who still has any genuine love for his country.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 10:24 AM | Reply

#2 | Posted by GOnoles92

You're too bright a man not to be aware of the evidence. Therefore, I have to assume that your going to be completely fine with an illegitimate president who may have already done treason?

Or maybe it was just one or two of his kids that did treason, to give that aging lech their father some plausible deniability?

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 10:32 AM | Reply

To the Trump voters: It is possible to support your candidate without supporting Vladimir Putin. If you can't admit that the manipulation of a U.S. election by a hostile foreign power is a bad thing, you're being a patsy. Every time you make excuses for what Putin is doing or pretend it isn't happening, you make our country weaker.

#4 | Posted by rcade at 2016-11-27 10:35 AM | Reply

Clearly because of public statements made by both candidates during the campaign, Russia preferred Trump.

But, to believe that Russia had a role in the election outcome you have to believe that the publication and news "Russia Today" has influence in America and that Russian agents familiar with computerized voting machines had access to those machines post election.

We know that at least twice in the past, in Ohio, counts were taken over by private servers and outcomes flipped immediately after the State's system crashed at ~11:15. Those private servers are owned and operated by people with high connections to the Rethug Party.

We know that Dr. Drew & Steve Bannon played prominent roles in planting negative stories about Hillary in major publications often characterized by the right as liberal. I cannot disprove a Russian role, but there are strong indications it is not necessary to implicate Russia in order to explain the outcome. The outcome is more likely the work of Rethug fraud. It is disingenuous to think Russia technicians would use Russian ISPs to hack. Yet that is the basis for the intelligence communities conclusions, whose language is couched in uncertainty.

Much more clear cut propaganda is that each time the USA commits an act of aggression it is characterized as a fulfillment of the dreams of local populations (who were never consulted) and anytime Russia responds in kind to a US act of aggression it is labeled the aggressor, even though the aggression was clearly initiated by the US. According to western media, Israel is always only defending itself and Russia never defends itself, it only commits acts of aggression.

#5 | Posted by nutcase at 2016-11-27 10:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

For once I have to actually agree with Nutcase. (!) The propaganda put out by Russia in this case is little different from what the U.S. (and many other large nations) do all time to influence politics in regions they believe they have interests. If the U.S. really is susceptible to that sort of thing, then we need to take a serious look inward and take at look at how we fell to such a condition.

Claiming there was criminal hacking by Russia to directly change the results (which would be a huge thing) without any proof is just as inane as the conspiracy theories which are thrown at the U.S. and automatically assumed to be true.

#6 | Posted by sentinel at 2016-11-27 11:13 AM | Reply

Clearly because of public statements made by both candidates during the campaign, Russia preferred Trump.

This comment makes it sound like you think Russia only had public statements from Trump and his campaign to judge him by. We know that's not true. General Flynn is so close to Trump that he was included in the classified intelligence briefings. RT paid for Flynn to be the speaker at a banquet it held. That's just one contact among many. Trump's sons had another. Russian officials have even admitted communicating with Trump's campaign several times privately during the campaign.

Trump hid his tax returns, so we have no idea how deep his business connections to Russia are. Anyone doing major business in Russia has to get in bed with Putin and his cronies.

Instead of criticizing the U.S., how about focusing on what Russia is doing to us? As Americans do we not have an interest in that any more? We're not Russians.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2016-11-27 11:14 AM | Reply

#7, RT paid for Jill Stein to attend the same banquet that Gen. Flynn attended. Is the Green Party nominee who led the recount effort in Wisconsin, also an agent of Russia, as you seem to assert for Gen. Flynn?

#8 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-11-27 11:17 AM | Reply

Claiming there was criminal hacking by Russia to directly change the results (which would be a huge thing) without any proof is just as inane as the conspiracy theories which are thrown at the U.S. and automatically assumed to be true.

Reread the summary of this link. The claim is that Russia has engaged in a campaign to manipulate our election that included hacking political organizations, trolling social media and a massive disinformation campaign of spreading fake news on social media.

Are there questions being asked about whether Russia hacked any election results? Yes. That's naturally going to be a concern given everything we know Russia has been doing. Is that proven? No. But we certainly should be looking closely at the election. I think every state should be recounted to find anything suspicious that might have occurred.

If the U.S. really is susceptible to that sort of thing, then we need to take a serious look inward and take at look at how we fell to such a condition.

This is a discussion that Trump voters and others on the right refuse to let happen. They just call it a conspiracy theory, claim falsely that there's no evidence and defend Russia and Putin. I've never seen more pro-Russia comments on this site than when Russian hackers started attacking the DNC. I haven't seen this many Americans speak well of the Communists since I was a kid reading The Nation and a lot of Depression-era liberals were still around.

#9 | Posted by rcade at 2016-11-27 11:21 AM | Reply

Is the Green Party nominee who led the recount effort in Wisconsin, also an agent of Russia, as you seem to assert for Gen. Flynn?

I didn't say Flynn was an agent of Russia.

Stein attending that banquet is one of the many reasons I think she's a chump. RT is a propaganda arm of Putin openly funded by the Russian government, and she's buddy-buddy with them? The Greens can do a lot better in 2020 than to drag that turkey out again.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2016-11-27 11:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


If the U.S. really is susceptible to that sort of thing, then we need to take a serious look inward and take at look at how we fell to such a condition. - #6
This is a discussion that Trump voters and others on the right refuse to let happen. - #10 |

I commented on this issue before "it was cool."


The only interesting aspect regarding polling stations throughout the 50 states, is that general election infrastructure is not (yet) considered worthy of "critical infrastructure protection" by the DHS. Whereas, relatively less important pieces of infrastructure, such as movie sets, are considered by DHS to be "critical infrastructure."
Priorities (or lack of).

#20 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT 2016-10-12 (www.drudge.com)

Daniel posted a thread about election security (or lack of) as well:
www.drudge.com

#11 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-11-27 11:36 AM | Reply

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Maybe its because I'm not wearing my tinfoil hat but I don't see any definitive "biggest story evah!" in this article. Lots of innuendo and suggestion but almost no meat.

And regardless of who is responsible: I'm glad the DNC was exposed for their efforts to subvert Sanders. Everyone involved did us a favor whether that was their intent or not.

#12 | Posted by Sully at 2016-11-27 12:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Wikileaks claims the DNC leaks didn't come from Russia. There's been a lot of rumor that it was a high-level US govt. official. This whole "17 intelligence agencies have concluded that it was Russia" is a Hillary talking point, and you fell for it.

We simply do not know who hacked the DNC.

#13 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 12:52 PM | Reply

#13

Stop with the bullshizzle!

Our ruling

Clinton said, "We have 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military, who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyberattacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin, and they are designed to influence our election."

We don't know how many separate investigations into the attacks they were. But the Director of National Intelligence, which speaks for the country's 17 federal intelligence agencies, released a joint statement saying the intelligence community at large is confident that Russia is behind recent hacks into political organizations' emails. The statement sourced the attacks to the highest levels of the Russian government and said they are designed to interfere with the current election.

We rate Clinton's statement True. www.politifact.com

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2016-11-27 01:06 PM | Reply

"Wikileaks claims the DNC leaks didn't come from Russia. "

Really? They'd originally said they don't comment on sources, ever. Have they changed their stance, this one time?

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 01:08 PM | Reply

Assange says hacked Clinton emails didn't come from Russia: www.foxnews.com

"The Clinton camp has been able to project a neo-McCarthyist hysteria that Russia is responsible for everything," Assange said. "Hillary Clinton has stated multiple times, falsely, that 17 US intelligence agencies had assessed that Russia was the source of our publications. That's false – we can say that the Russian government is not the source."

#16 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 01:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I believe Assange over Hillary.

#17 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I believe Assange over Hillary."

The guy who said he'd never comment on the identity of sources, yet found the need to deny particular sources after they were publicly named?

That guy?!?

Sounds more self-serving to me. CYA move.

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Russian govt could have given the emails to an intermediary who gave them to WikiLeaks, so Assange could claim he didn't get them from the Russians.

#19 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-11-27 01:37 PM | Reply

"I believe Assange over Hillary."

What about the 17 US intelligence agencies?

#20 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-11-27 01:40 PM | Reply

What about the 17 US intelligence agencies?

#20 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016

He'll believe Assange over those, too.

He's not from here any more.

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:06 PM | Reply

Instead of criticizing the U.S., how about focusing on what Russia is doing to us? As Americans do we not have an interest in that any more?

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2016-11-27

As was noted, the problem is that some who post here aren't really Americans any more.

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:15 PM | Reply

-What about the 17 US intelligence agencies?

Just wondering. Why are there 17 intelligence agencies? Isn't that a perfect example of bureaucratic growth and abuse?

#23 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:21 PM | Reply

As was noted, the problem is that some who post here aren't really Americans any more.

#22 | Posted by Zed

Anyone who disagrees with ZhD isn't an American.

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Anyone who disagrees with ZhD isn't an American.

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016

Actually, my point is that anyone who behaves as if he hates this country isn't an American.

I'm not in a position to keep up with your behavior, beyond the words you post here. Not encouraging words, a lot of them.

So, you work in a convenience store, don't you?

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:28 PM | Reply

-So, you work in a convenience store, don't you?

Yes, I work in a convenience store, ZhD. The only way I can get through the day is by smoking Zed's Most Excellent Texas Kush. Anything else?

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:33 PM | Reply

The only way I can get through the day is by smoking Zed's Most Excellent Texas Kush. Anything else?

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:33 PMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

Yes. Do steal the Zig Zags or do you pay for them?

#27 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:37 PM | Reply

Actually, my point is that anyone who behaves as if he hates this country isn't an American.

Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:28 PM | Reply

That's quite American that's how America was founded for crying out loud.

#28 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 02:37 PM | Reply

That's quite American that's how America was founded for crying out loud.

#28 | Posted by LauraMohr

On people hating it? Someone that seems a bit off.

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:38 PM | Reply

The Far Right doesn't see America as an ongoing concern. They want something new and shiny they can play with.

#30 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:40 PM | Reply

On people hating it? Someone that seems a bit off.

Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:38 PM | Reply

That seems to be you with your poor analysis on what makes an American an American.

#31 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 02:41 PM | Reply

"Somehow that seems a bit off...."

You do understand the difference between love and hate, don't you? Alright then, explain it to NULLI.

#32 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:41 PM | Reply

#25 Zed

Spoken like a true Elitist Bastard.

Why do you hate Americans so much Zed? Is the common man so far below you?

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

That seems to be you with your poor analysis on what makes an American an American.

#31 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-

Provide your own analysis. I'm curious.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:43 PM | Reply

Is the common man so far below you?

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 02:41 PM

Define common man. I'd like to know how you see one.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:44 PM | Reply

Just wondering. Why are there 17 intelligence agencies? Isn't that a perfect example of bureaucratic growth and abuse?
#23 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:21 PM | Reply

Not to worry. Trump has pledged to look into fraud and waste in govt.

#36 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-11-27 02:44 PM | Reply

You do understand the difference between love and hate, don't you? Alright then, explain it to NULLI.

Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:41 PM | Reply

Nullifidian is intellectually astute enough to understand it. I don't however believe you have the ability to grok his understanding of said subject matter.

#37 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 02:44 PM | Reply

- Yes. Do steal the Zig Zags or do you pay for them?

Only the strawberry-flavored ones with Doc Zed on the wrapper.

#38 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:46 PM | Reply

Nullifidian is intellectually astute enough to understand it.

#37 | Posted by LauraMohr

NULLI's a bright man. That doesn't mean he's a feeling one. In the meanwhile, I asked you a question.

#39 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:46 PM | Reply

Provide your own analysis. I'm curious.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Our founding fathers hated the way things were so they changed it. The same thing is happening today. The people hated where this country was so they elected Trump. It's easy peasy to understand if you try.

#40 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 02:47 PM | Reply

Only the strawberry-flavored ones with Doc Zed on the wrapper.

#38 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016

I'd have thought you simply chewed those up and ate them.

#41 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:47 PM | Reply

The people hated where this country was so they elected Trump.

#40 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 02:47 PMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

All such high-mided phrasing collides and sinks in contact with Donald's life and character.

Ex nihil nihil fit. "From out of nothing, nothing comes".

I studied Latin. I know I'm already on someone's list.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:49 PM | Reply

I also asked Mr. Rat a question: what is a common man to him? Perhaps he's considering it? Just to make sure he can fashion a definition which includes himself?

#43 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:52 PM | Reply

#35 "Define common man. I'd like to know how you see one."

You know, people without degrees. The working class. Deplorables. About 75% of America. The people you hate.

I swear to God your PhD must be in Eugenics.

#44 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 02:53 PM | Reply

That crack you made to Null about being a convenience store clerk really paints you, Zed. Have you ever clerked before? I have, at a Mobil station. Washed dishes at a restaurant, did construction, etc....

#45 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 02:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The working class.

#44 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 02:

People are allowed to change the circumstances of their own lives through hard work and ability.

That's part of my definition of what it means to be an American. Not yours, is it?

#46 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 02:56 PM | Reply

"I studied Latin."

That and $4.75 will buy you a pumpkin-spice latte, snob. My plumber's opinion carries more weight than yours.

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:59 PM | Reply

I've already told you folks that my dad was an NCO. Donald Trump's dad was a very, very wealthy man. Yes, in a very real way that makes me better than Trump. I've learned all the lessons of life Donald was excused from.

That's another deficition of common man, by the way. Learning the lessons of life Donald never knew.

#48 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:01 PM | Reply

My plumber's opinion carries more weight than yours.

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting. I also have a plumber, and HE studied Latin. Turns out working with pipes isn't all that he wanted to be.

What problem do you have with that?

#49 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:03 PM | Reply

#46 Some people lack the ability. You can't get into college with an average IQ. All that leaves you is hard work....

Which is also commendable. We need to cut the working class a break in this country, raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, and end globalization by ending these disastrous free trade agreements with the slave-wage countries.

#50 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 03:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Whewwwwwwwwwwwww a pissing contest is brewing. THANK G-D I'm not a man.

#51 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 03:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Yes, I've clerked before, Mr. Rat. NULLI's getting ribbed because he wouldn't define common man to me yesterday. Now today, I find out from him that it's people who work for a living.

I work for a living.

#52 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:05 PM | Reply

You can't impress anyone here, LAURA. You can get them to revert to high school pretty damned easily.

#53 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:07 PM | Reply

-I work for a living.

At what? Spitting on convenience store workers who haven't studied Latin? Your contempt for working people is why Rodham lost. But you will never learn the lesson.

#54 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Time to get over high school, NULLI. That nerdy kid you hated because you thought he was smarter than you really was smarter than you.

#55 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:14 PM | Reply

Time to get over high school, NULLI. That nerdy kid you hated because you thought he was smarter than you really was smarter than you.

Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:14 PM | Reply

Holier than thou attitudes are sinful to G-d.

#56 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-27 03:16 PM | Reply

We've just revealed one big reason Donald "won", LAURA. Too many people never resolved their personal issues from high school.

#57 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:17 PM | Reply

I'd say the party who's against raising the minimum wage for "burger flippers", is the party who has contempt for working people.

Actually. There was only one candidate who supported the average American.

Bernie Sanders.

And the DNC cheated him out of the election.

#58 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-11-27 03:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm not going to apologize for being an educated man. To those of you who resent that: eat me.

#59 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:18 PM | Reply

We've just revealed one big reason Donald "won", LAURA. Too many people never resolved their personal issues from high school.

You are truly dense.

#60 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-11-27 03:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Regardless of successful or unsuccessful, interference with our election process by foreign powers is pretty close to an act of war. Shame on anyone who tries to downplay it or pretend it isn't a huge deal. The problem in this instance is that it appears that many Americans with their own agenda were collaborating with external powers. That is treason imo.

#61 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-11-27 03:20 PM | Reply

One man's dense is another man's insight.

#62 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 03:21 PM | Reply

"Are there questions being asked about whether Russia hacked any election results? Yes. That's naturally going to be a concern given everything we know Russia has been doing. Is that proven? No. But we certainly should be looking closely at the election. I think every state should be recounted to find anything suspicious that might have occurred."

Every state? Really? That seems like extreme overkill, especially since many states' results were perfectly in line with aggregate polling data. I think it's perfectly reasonable to initially call for recounts in the states which were close. But you think there should be a nationwide recount "to find anything suspicious that might have occurred." That's ridiculous. It would create such a circus that the nation would grow tired of much quicker than the 2000 debacle. The Democrats need to be very careful about how they pursue any recounts, otherwise the next presidential election will be a repeat of 2004. (I always thought Kerry should have called for a recount in Ohio, but he couldn't politically because the memory of how Gore fumbled in Florida was still fresh in people's minds.)

This is a discussion that Trump voters and others on the right refuse to let happen. They just call it a conspiracy theory, claim falsely that there's no evidence and defend Russia and Putin.

No surprise that the winning party is acting like political hacks and sore winners. They're trolling the people who didn't support them, and by the looks of it they appear to be succeeding.

I've never seen more pro-Russia comments on this site than when Russian hackers started attacking the DNC. I haven't seen this many Americans speak well of the Communists since I was a kid reading The Nation and a lot of Depression-era liberals were still around.

I don't disagree, but again this is a trend that's been going on internationally for years. Russia does it. China does it. The US does it. Etc. We don't need to be "alarmed" at it, we just need to recognize that's the reality and react calmly so we can convince others we need to take reasonable steps to inoculate ourselves against it.

#63 | Posted by sentinel at 2016-11-27 03:29 PM | Reply

-Time to get over high school, NULLI.

Let's take it to an unmoderated forum, Doc Zed. I will destroy you, you pretentious twit.

#64 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#59 You could apologize for being the reason I voted Republican after 16 years of voting Democrat. You could apologize for not caring about the working class. But don't apologize for being educated.

#65 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 03:31 PM | Reply

"Regardless of successful or unsuccessful, interference with our election process by foreign powers is pretty close to an act of war"

This sounds a lot like Russia's claims about the US and Europe trying to influence Ukraine, which they spuriously used to justify their invasion and annexation.

#66 | Posted by sentinel at 2016-11-27 03:33 PM | Reply

"You could apologize for being the reason I voted Republican after 16 years of voting Democrat."

That's on you.

Please tell me, since no other Trump voter will:

Given his campaign promises--to commit war crimes, eviscerate the First Amendment, and violate Article VI of the Constitution (among other Articles), did you vote for him because you believe in these causes, or because you take comfort in the fact he's a pathological liar and don't believe he'll actually commit the atrocities he's promised?

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 03:37 PM | Reply

Sentinel, and your point is? That it is okay for Russia to engage this type of behavior? That you are willing to accept it when it is in support of a candidate you also support? Or that you feel it is okay for other countries to get the upper on us because we try to get the upper hand on them? What are you saying? Because there is no way to slice it and angrily oppose this behavior by Russia and not alos be a Party Before Country hypocrite.

#68 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-11-27 03:38 PM | Reply

"The people hated where this country was so they elected Trump. It's easy peasy to understand if you try."

That might be why they voted for Trump, but the question is: are they going to get the change they wanted?

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-11-27 03:40 PM | Reply

Let's take it to an unmoderated forum, Doc Zed. I will destroy you, you pretentious twit.

#64 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Sounds like what you really want to do is troll the other side with lies and insults. If you can't articulate your position on a moderated site then probably that is because your position is based on insult, lies, innuendo and really poor sources. If you disagree with Zed, articulate here, using generally accepted sources. Enough with the trolling.

#70 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-11-27 03:41 PM | Reply

#67 I take comfort in the fact that he can't do those things, while I wait for the tariffs and the wall to go up, and the end of the H1-B visas that drive my wages down.

#71 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 03:43 PM | Reply

#67 The point is, Democrats stopped being the part of the working class, so I stopped supporting them.

#72 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I take comfort in the fact that he can't do those things"

But he said he could, and would. Meaning either he's stupid and doesn't know, or he knows, and thinks you're too stupid to tell the difference.

Anything else you take comfort thinking he lied about?

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 03:46 PM | Reply

"The point is, Democrats stopped being the part of the working class, so I stopped supporting them."

The point is, if you elected Republicans thinking they're going to be better for the working class, you're going to be very, very disappointed.

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 03:48 PM | Reply

- If you disagree with Zed, articulate here, using generally accepted sources. Enough with the trolling.

Nobody asked your opinion. He can debate me or not. His choice.

#75 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 03:50 PM | Reply

Let's take it to an unmoderated forum, Doc Zed. I will destroy you, you pretentious twit.

#64 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2016-11-27 03:30 PM | REPLY

Cat fight!

#76 | Posted by jpw at 2016-11-27 03:52 PM | Reply

#72 So you decided to support Trump and the GOP instead?

#77 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-11-27 03:52 PM | Reply

"Sentinel, and your point is? That it is okay for Russia to engage this type of behavior?"

No, simply that it's not "alarming" that Russia engages in this type of behavior, nor that our country does. Regardless of the morality of it, describing it as an act of war and throwing out treason accusations is a total freak out, which will ultimately push you farther away from your intended goal of trying to mitigate the situation.

#78 | Posted by sentinel at 2016-11-27 04:00 PM | Reply

#77 I voted Democrat for the local elections, and Trump for president. All I care about is the end of globalization. Hillary was just a poster-child for Big Banking, and I wanted Bernie but DWS stole the primary from him.

#79 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 04:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"All I care about is the end of globalization."

Then the next four years are really going to suck for you.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 04:05 PM | Reply

Sentnel, how can you possibly not find this alarming if you are an American? A foreign attempting (and perhaps succeeding) to alter the outcome of a presidential election. I hope I'm wrong, but it really sounds like you are a Party before Country individual. Any American who cares about America first should be outraged at such interference into OUR election.

#81 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-11-27 04:07 PM | Reply

#80 Hey, if Trump can't pull off what he promised, I'm going with Elizabeth Warren for 2020.

#82 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 04:15 PM | Reply

"Hey, if Trump can't pull off what he promised"

So either war crimes, or you're out of there?

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2016-11-27 04:16 PM | Reply

Actually. There was only one candidate who supported the average American.
Bernie Sanders.
And the DNC cheated him out of the election.

#58 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2016-11-27 03:17 PM | FLAG:

and there it is! exactly

#84 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2016-11-27 04:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Moder8, I can't tell if you're being serious or tongue in cheek here. Hope it's the latter. I have no party affiliation and didn't vote for the Trumpster. If foreign propaganda had any influence at all on the election, I think it was very minimal compared to all the internal factors, such as Clinton being such a flawed candidate and her supporters being overly presumptuous about her winning and Trump losing. If evidence comes to light that their actions went beyond propaganda and espionage, then that's different.

I was very critical of Russia on this board at the time of their Ukraine invasion, and many of its apologists who claimed the the mere possibility of 'the West' trying to influence politics in that part of the world was alarming and somehow justified their reaction. We can't have it both ways.

#85 | Posted by sentinel at 2016-11-27 04:30 PM | Reply

Let's take it to an unmoderated forum, Doc Zed. I will destroy you, you pretentious twit.

#64 | Posted by nullifidian a

Let's thumb-wrestle. I'll bet you three cattle against whatever girlfriend you have.

#86 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 04:34 PM | Reply

You could apologize for not caring about the working class. But don't apologize for being educated.

#65 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2016-11-27 03:31 PMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

I am a working class man from a working class family who seized what he was always taught was the American Dream.

I'm not apologizing to anyone, about anything. And I'm not going to be someone's punching bag because they learned the word "globalization".

#87 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 04:37 PM | Reply

"And I'm not going to be someone's punching bag"

No, you're just going to try to use everyone who didn't vote for Hillary as a punching bag for her loss.

#88 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2016-11-27 04:45 PM | Reply

Rcade,

I don't actually disagree with your statements regarding Russia, you have carefully caveated them. But I do not feel they provide a complete picture either. I contend Steve Bannon, Dr Drew nd other conservative Rethug operators played a larger more effective role than the Russians. Any impact from Russia on our election is trivial and more probably counterproductive. Furthermore, Trump is right to de-escalate our international conflict with Russia and Hillary was wrong to use Russia to distract voters from the content of her hacked emails.

I am not a Trump supporter and it is becoming increasingly clear that Trump is entering the presidency (if recounts fail) with treasonous levels of conflicts of interest and he has made it clear that he doesn't care and was elected as if the public were aware of that fact.

But Washington DC is charged with promoting the general welfare and it is a swamp of conflicting special interests, as in a majority of elected officials engaged in making life better for the 1% at the expense of the 99%. This problem transcends anything Russia can do by at least one order of magnitude. Now we are forced to listen to McConnell say draining the swamp is not important. Russia may be a problem, but minor compared to China. The assumption that they have played any role in effecting the vote count has no basis in fact while there is direct evidence of repeated Rethug crime before and after elections to prevent poor people voting and change the votes after the fact is incontrovertible (depending on the State).

#89 | Posted by nutcase at 2016-11-27 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No, you're just going to try to use everyone who didn't vote for Hillary as a punching bag for her loss.

#88 | Posted by lfthndthrds

I think everyone who positively supports Trump is either confused or a creature of the night.

Stein is doing more than she could now as a failed candidate as she ever could do prior to the election. It seems possible that HRC is really president-elect.

#90 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-27 04:56 PM | Reply

What's the problem? Libs want global politics...

#91 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2016-11-27 05:14 PM | Reply

Let's thumb-wrestle. I'll bet you three cattle against whatever girlfriend you have.

#86 | Posted by Zed

Thanks for proving my point.

#92 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-27 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hard to feel sorry for cockroaches scattering when the light comes on. Poor DWS, I guess?

Repubs deserve the same exposure, that's the only injustice here, that someone isn't exposing their every utterance behind closed doors as well.

#93 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2016-11-28 12:18 AM | Reply

Just change the headline to "Modest Russia May Have Assisted US To Avoid Another Disastrous Clinton" and a couple of baiting verbs in the story and it becomes more of a patriotic, feel good piece. The US has a history of meddling in the elections and internal affairs of other countries (huffpo link) and then is surprised if it happens to it. Secretary Hitlery even suggested that we fix elections in the occupied territories (link). Famously the US tried to assasinate a Cuban leader, only to have its president assasinated months later. Coincidence or brutal payback?

Does it make it right? Of course not. Did the Russians hack our ballot boxes? Doubtful. Was the information in the wikileaks DNC emails accurate? Absolutely. Will President Trump continue an interventionist policy? I hope not.

The Podesta leaks were the result of his clicking a link to change his google password that any of us would have known to not click and not some sophisticated intelligence operation. It will come out eventually that the DNC leak was an inside job (unless of course they have already found and disposed of this person, see e.g. Vince Foster). Is this better or worse than Access Hollywood lurking with a tape recorder near a production bus while guys are bro-ing it up inside and then holding on to that tape for the perfect place to spring it 11 years later? I'd say about the same.

There was plenty of other crap hurled at Trump from 90+% of media outlets. So WaPo wants us to believe that a thin slice of clickbait served up by our historic enemy was the reason enough people woke up to the fact that their lives sucked so much that they could not take 4 more years of failed policies? Give me a break. WaPo is one of the most read purveyors of fake news out there, promoting opinion as if it was fact. If propornot had any integrity, it would have made their recent list.

observer.com

www.huffingtonpost.com

#94 | Posted by Nuke_Gently at 2016-11-28 03:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

So Russia had to hack the DNC so that we Americans can figure out how corrupt the DNC is, particularly in sidelining Mr. Sanders? Sounds like Russia just did the job the media and journalists should have done. Hell, I hope they hack the RNC so we can see both sides of the BS.

By the way, no possible shady deals between the Clinton Foundation and its donors, while she was the Sec. of the State and high probability that she would be POTUS? Nothing in those deleted emails to prove a connection. No man scratch that idea, that's preposterous.

#95 | Posted by danv at 2016-11-28 11:33 AM | Reply

Thanks for proving my point.

#92 | Posted by nullifidian

Maybe you don't have a girlfriend?

#96 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 12:02 PM | Reply

Maybe you don't have a girlfriend?

#96 | Posted by Zed

No I don't. I'm a gay man and a gay journalist. You have a problem with that, bigot?

#97 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-28 12:28 PM | Reply

You have a problem with that?

#97 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-11-28 12:28 PM | Reply

If I did, I would have voted for the man you did.

Maybe you could use a cow anyway?

#98 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 12:48 PM | Reply

Simple question here, if the left is all panty wadded up about the Russians hacking into our elections why are they blaming the GOP when Obama is responsible for our national security?

#99 | Posted by fishpaw at 2016-11-28 01:07 PM | Reply

Democrats are made at Republicans for not being mad they may have benefited from Russians, because Russians are evil.

#100 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 01:13 PM | Reply

I take comfort in the fact that he can't do those things,

The legislative branch is republican. He can do a lot.

while I wait for the tariffs and the wall to go up,

While I am in favor of tariffs on imports. Neither wall nor tariffs will happen.

and the end of the H1-B visas that drive my wages down.

Do you actually believe Trump will fire his own H1-B employees?

Not f'n likely.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-11-28 01:47 PM | Reply

#99 | Posted by fishpaw at 2016

The Left is still trying to understand why the right is now so BFF with the Russians after bitching about what they saw as Obama's attitude for eight years.

I explain such phenomena by assuming to guys never really meant any word of it. Which is another way of saying that, if you have any core values, I think you ---- them all out.

#102 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:11 PM | Reply

Democrats are made at Republicans for not being mad they may have benefited from Russians

#100 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016

That you don't see how weird such a statement is explains this entire magilla.

The Freaking Republicans are not supposed to benefit from the help of a foreign power. That's because they are expected to be totally loyal to this country.

#103 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:13 PM | Reply

Really, you GOP types are all so damned funny. I expect you all to sponsor a Constitutional Amendment legalizing ------. Because, after all, everyone loves their mother.

#104 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:15 PM | Reply

The Right is attempting to decouple patriotism from nationalism. What a mass of sniveling snakes you people have become in a few short years.

#105 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:18 PM | Reply

"The 1980s called..."

#106 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2016-11-28 02:20 PM | Reply

I am a working class man from a working class family who seized what he was always taught was the American Dream. I'm not apologizing to anyone, about anything. And I'm not going to be someone's punching bag because they learned the word "globalization".

#87 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2016-11-27 04:37 PM

Anyone else find it funny that after all these years on the DR Zed, several weeks ago, "remembers" he has a PhD?

Keep up the funny, Dr. Working Class.

#107 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-11-28 02:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Keep up the funny, Dr. Working Class.

#107 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016

Perhaps my Doctorate is in Malignant Sumbitches? In which case you'll understand why I've hidden it from you until now.

#108 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:34 PM | Reply

Anyone else find it funny that after all these years on the DR Zed, several weeks ago, "remembers" he has a PhD?

#107 | Posted by Rightocenter at

Pearls before swine, my boy. Pearls before swine.

#109 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:35 PM | Reply

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

#110 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:37 PM | Reply

That you don't see how weird such a statement is explains this entire magilla.
The Freaking Republicans are not supposed to benefit from the help of a foreign power. That's because they are expected to be totally loyal to this country.
#103 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2016-11-28 02:13 PM | FLAG:

or they simply view the globalist, border-free side as the one being disloyal.

#111 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 02:41 PM | Reply

or they simply view the globalist, border-free side as the one being disloyal.

#111 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 02:41 PM | Reply

Stop being stupid. Supporting a foreign Power when they sabotage American institutions because that Power and YOU both perceive advantage in it makes you into a sort of low-grade Quisling.

Vidkun Quisling. The Norwegians eventually had him shot.

#112 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:48 PM | Reply

Can't be Quisling, no monarchy here.

#113 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 03:14 PM | Reply

If you have actual proof of your alleged act of war, like election machine hacking directed by a foreign power, come with it, I'll jump on board.

#114 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 03:15 PM | Reply

Democrats are made at Republicans for not being mad they may have benefited from Russians, because Russians are evil.

#100 | Posted by sitzkrieg

No democrats are mad at yet another example of "when obama does it it's bad, when a republican does it it's fine."

Repubs trashed obama for being too friendly and cooperative with putin.

Then Putin helps elect their candidate and they're just fine with it.

I'm trying to think of a single issue that republicans have intellectual credibility on and I'm drawing a blank.

#115 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2016-11-28 03:26 PM | Reply

Repubs

#115 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2016-11-28 03:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Just had their party shattered by Trump. The old guard was slaughtered.

#116 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 03:38 PM | Reply

Just had their party shattered by Trump. The old guard was slaughtered.

#116 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Yeah that must be why they're filling up his cabinet. They got so slaughtered that he hired them to tell him what to do.

#117 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2016-11-28 03:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The big story was that Empress Clinton stated in the third debate that she was willing to escalate tensions with Russia to cover up her negligent behavior. Total depravity.

#118 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2016-11-28 03:51 PM | Reply

Yeah that must be why they're filling up his cabinet. They got so slaughtered that he hired them to tell him what to do.

#117 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2016-11-28 03:46 PM | FLAG:

That's usually how it works. Subjugate them, then integrate those than bend the knee. Warfare, politics, same thing just less blood.

#119 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 04:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Kind of interesting to see a group that laments "conspiracy theorists" latch unto a idea sans any proof. I doubt they will see the irony in it all.

#120 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2016-11-28 04:05 PM | Reply

108-110

Don't worry, Dr. Zedvil, I think we all got the reference, but for it to work the "pearl" has to be of substance and not illusory.

#121 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-11-28 04:16 PM | Reply

Pearls before swine, my boy. Pearls before swine.

#109 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pride goeth before the fall

#122 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2016-11-28 04:18 PM | Reply

I think we all got the reference

#121 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016

I'm glad you were able to understand. Writing for kids is always a challenge.

#123 | Posted by Zed at 2016-11-28 05:02 PM | Reply

themoscowtimes.com

worldnews.nbcnews.com

Russian support can really hurt you.

#124 | Posted by Petrous at 2016-11-28 05:10 PM | Reply

That's usually how it works. Subjugate them, then integrate those than bend the knee. Warfare, politics, same thing just less blood.

#119 | Posted by sitzkrieg

He's not subjugating anyone. He's clueless. And the people he's chosen to guide are the ones who he said were the problem.

Now trumpers have to make all sorts of insane explanations to avoid the obvious conclusion that they voted for the wrong guy.

"It's all just a mind game! He's really going to STOP the elites! Hiring them to fill the white house is just step 1!"
Pathetic. Trump is pissing on your head and you're excited for the precipitation.

#125 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2016-11-28 05:50 PM | Reply

Trump is pissing on your head and you're excited for the precipitation.

#125 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2016-11-28 05:50 PM | REPLY

He's employing Romney, Jeb!, Cruz, Rubio? Nope. Crushed. Ryan is only clinging to power through backroom dealings and good connections. Republicans, despite having power currently, are internally having a crisis similar to Democrats.

You know what they say about assumptions, and you're making a lot of them. Nobody has ever actually asked me how I feel about Trump.

and of course Trump voters are getting conned. Obama voters thought they were getting a peacenik bringing transparency to government. 8 years later many of the same voters picked Trump. Maybe they like getting conned by both sides, I don't know, don't really care.

#126 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2016-11-28 08:00 PM | Reply

"How is it that Republican Party leaders accept the intervention of a foreign power in the election of their party's presidential candidate?"

How? It gives them the power to pass their agenda on behalf of the 1%. Money over honesty and party over country. Every single time.

#127 | Posted by 726 at 2016-11-29 08:55 AM | Reply

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