Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 19, 2016

It's all too common to turn on the news and hear about yet another disgusting act of violence and intolerance toward Muslim Americans. These incidents aren't coincidental -- they're indicative of a dangerous trend of Islamophobia that doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. Multiple studies over recent years have shown that anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiment are rising in the United States. A 2015 HuffPost/YouGov poll found that 55 percent of Americans had either a somewhat or very unfavorable view of Islam.

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But a new report from sociologists at the University of Minnesota demonstrates just how dire the situation is. In it, the sociologists found that negative attitudes toward Islam are not only higher than those toward any other religious or non-religious group, but are also rising at a faster rate.

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Nearly half ― 48.9 percent ― of Americans also say they would disapprove if their child were to marry someone who is Muslim. That's up from 33.5 percent in 2003 and higher than the 43.7 percent of Americans who say the same about atheists.

These negative feelings toward Muslims in the U.S. can have real and dangerous consequences. There have been over 100 hate crimes targeting Muslims in the U.S. since the Paris terror attacks last November, according to the group Muslim Advocates.

#1 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-19 09:02 AM | Reply

..and both are more popular than vegans, PETA, and militant feminists.

#2 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2016-09-19 11:08 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Chelsea bombing suspect is apparently a United States-hating homophobe https://t.co/pEt7axyTn2 pic.twitter.com/UHmlHgwh48 -- New York Post (@nypost) September 20, 2016


#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-19 11:19 PM | Reply

I cannot fathom why that sentiment is rising, can you?

#5 | Posted by MSgt at 2016-09-19 11:22 PM | Reply

Because people in Trump's basket of deplorables are really bad at math.

There are 2.75 million Muslims in the U.S. If you judge all of them by the jihadists, that's like judging all Christians by the Colorado Springs abortion clinic shooter.

#6 | Posted by rcade at 2016-09-19 11:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#6 I love the uneducated.
- Trump

#7 | Posted by bored at 2016-09-19 11:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Profiling works...use it.

#8 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2016-09-19 11:58 PM | Reply

Whether it's al Qaeda, ISIS, or some other incarnation, the longer we fight them all over the earth, the bigger they'll grow to hate us.

#9 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-20 12:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

45% Don't Think Muslims Share 'Our' Values

What values are included in "our values".

It has nothing to do with the religion.

It has to do with conservatives vs liberals.

Conservatives, Muslim Christian or Jew, tend to agree on things like: homosexuality, women, us vs them.

Liberals, Muslim Christian or Jew, on the other hand, don't view life as an "us vs them". More of a live and let live. More of a treat others the way you want to be treated.

It's not liberals killing shooting blowing everyone up.

It's stupid hateful conservatives.

Always has been. Always will be.

Conservatives are a opposed to peace love and freedom.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 12:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

That is some serious broad-brushing, Clown.

#11 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-20 12:42 AM | Reply

Islamophobia is a unrealistic phobia.

However when you know what the religion teaches its not that unrealistic.

#12 | Posted by tmaster at 2016-09-20 12:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#11

Life's not black and white Jeff.

We're none of us completely conservative or liberal.

But the more conservative one gets. The more they tend to lash out violently at those who are unlike them.

Ignorant masses help as well.

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 01:43 AM | Reply

Clown,

I guess it all boils down to how one defines "Conservative" in the context of what you posted.

Buffalo Bob simply takes all bad human traits and tendencies and labels them all as "conservative".

I've rarely seen you do that which is why I responded to your post as I did.

PS - I don't in any way equate you with BBob.

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-20 01:53 AM | Reply

#11 Profiling works, use it.

#15 | Posted by bored at 2016-09-20 03:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


Whether it's al Qaeda, ISIS, or some other incarnation, the longer we fight them all over the earth, the bigger they'll grow to hate us.

#9 | Posted by SheepleSchism

In other words, surrender now so they will like us, right Sheep?

#16 | Posted by boaz at 2016-09-20 07:24 AM | Reply

surrender now so they will like us

Don't compare the rest of us to your own actions in Afghanistan, private.

Thanks.

#17 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 07:28 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

In other words, surrender now so they will like us, right Sheep?

#16 | Posted by boaz

What's your solution? Kill all of them? How many do you think we'll have to kill before they stop trying to kill us?

#19 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2016-09-20 08:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How many do you think we'll have to kill

Trick question.... you know he can't count beyond 10.

#20 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 09:09 AM | Reply

Whether it's al Qaeda, ISIS, or some other incarnation, the longer we fight them all over the earth, the bigger they'll grow to hate us.

#9 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-20 12:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't always agree with you, but I think you're right on point with this. Whodaman said it well too. You can't kill your way to peace.

Granted, there is a large minority of Muslims who cling to their faith to justify their crimes against innocent people. But a lot of that goes beyond religion and is spurred on by American meddling in the part of the world where Islam is predominant. Doesn't excuse terrorism, but that's a fact.

So what does America do to (using a Middle Eastern metaphor) put the genie back in the bottle? Ultimately I think we have to withdraw from the region. It will take a long time for terrorism to subside.

#21 | Posted by cbob at 2016-09-20 09:19 AM | Reply

The solution is VERY simple. It's called "educating yourself in history".

Saudi had a king who got shot in the 70s.. I think his name was Faisal. He was the target of hardliners in his country who even declared TV has the "work of the devil".

When Faisal realized he couldn't take them on, he did a deal with them... we will let you EXPORT your Wahabi beliefs, just leave Saudi alone. That deal still stands.

Did you know that over 90% of the Islamic studies departments in American universities depend on some sort of Saudi funding? They are poisoning Americans just as they spread their poison to other places in the muslim world.

Shut them down. I have no idea how, but we got to try. Right now we aren't even trying.

Also, stop trying to do deals with Iran. Even though they are a different branch/religion of Islam, when we are seen trying to be nice to them, Saudi/Wahabis feel insecure and when they feel insecure, terror goes up a tick.

#22 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 09:33 AM | Reply

We are shocked and angered when attacked by Muslims, yet completely ignorant or indifferent to the torrent of violence we bestow on Muslims, because they were born close to the oil. Shame on them whenever they dare to act in revenge or stand up for themselves.

Hillary has some "deplorables" on her team. Madelyn Albright killed innocent children in Serbia and Iraq order to promote American foreign policy. So did Henry Kissinger whose motto is "control oil and you control nations, control food and you control people". Hillary's campaign manager, John Podesta, is a ruling-class operative and founder of the Center for American Progress (CAP). CAP is an example of the duplicity often exhibited by Wussies, who speak progressive yet act neoliberal. We should not forget Robert Rubin who used his Government job to make a personal fortune promoting balanced budgets, free trade and financial deregulation. The Clintons killed jobs with NAFTA, slashed Government spending, repealed Glass-Steagall, and unleashed the financial derivatives market leading to the collapse of 2008. There are so many Clinton "deplorables" I can't name them all, but let's not forget Geithner, Orzag, and Summers. These teams are waiting in the sidelines ready to go into action again as soon as Hillary is elected.

#23 | Posted by nutcase at 2016-09-20 09:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When deciding whether to start flapping one's arms and bashing one's country over survey results, it is important to know what question was actually asked. [...]

The article says the question was about "shared vision for American society". It also says that atheists came in at 42%.

[...] based on the little information about the survey provided in the article it seems that the best characterization of how the question was worded would be "poorly". If you asked 1,000 Americans what "a shared vision for American society means", you'd probably get 1,000 different answers.

So as an atheist, I'm not going to start wetting myself over 42% of Americans believing I don't share their "vision".

#24 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-20 09:48 AM | Reply

Do they share our values is a more important question if assimilation is the goal, which I believe is a huge challenge. It is our house that they are entering, and that has only been since the NYC Dems worked the 1965 Immigration Act into open door immigration policy.

More importantly if they don't share our values and these problems of terrorism continue, we will end up losing our freedoms and rights and our values.

Would any of these other countries (Israel and Saudis included) tolerate having their culture and ethnic makeup changed so that they could display their tolerance?

#25 | Posted by Robson at 2016-09-20 10:25 AM | Reply

many, if not most, partisans on both sides of the fence likely don't believe a large amount of anyone else doesn't share their values.

IOW, rigid righties don't believe liberals share their values and rigid lefties don't believe conservatives share their values.

Add to that religious divide, etc. where folks don't believe anyone else not of their faith don't share their values.

why would it be news that people don't think Muslims share their values.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-20 10:48 AM | Reply

Everyone ought to understand the history and anthropology of the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia and these regions have the fastest growing population in the world. For example, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and the Gaza Strip all had population growth rates over 4% per year, meaning that they would double every 18 years. That trend has abated somewhat, but the region's population is expected to nearly quadruple during by 2099 from what it was in 2000.

Saudi Arabia encourages non-Muslims to reject their accept Sunni Wahabbism as the true faith, and is spending billions to support the effort by establishing "Cultural Centers" across the globe. Unfortunately, the cultural education is biased, showing only Islam's many virtuous aspects, but hiding it's more controversial aspects. And there's a problem with seeing only one side of the story. And across the Sunni world, the political version of theocratic nationalism is leading Muslim nations to be ruled by groups that reject Western ideals of personal freedom of belief and choice. Shariah is interpreted many ways, but in general, the extremist version of Sunni Shariah calls for some deplorable behaviors, such as honor killings and the persecution of "ridda", the rejection of Islamic law or apostasy. Iran's own version of Shiite Shariah is marked by the deplorable stoning to death by the public of women who are helplessly buried up to their shoulders and crying in pain for mercy. How is this not deplorable?

Many in the West forget the centuries of struggles through history with Muslim leaders seeking to occupy swaths of Europe. Tamerlame beheaded 60,000 residents of Baghdad to assert his leadership there (www.historytoday.com). Suliman besieged Vienna for nearly a month before he finally relented (en.wikipedia.org)in October 1529. And a century and half later Poland's King John Sobieski had to again defend Europe from Ottoman invaders (en.wikipedia.org).

But some of Islam's worst atrocities have been against former believers. During the reign of Abu Bakr, shortly after the death of the Prophet, many subjects rejected demands of the new caliph and sought independence from the theocracy that was imposed on them, leading to massive slaughters of the apostates of Arabia. See: web.stanford.edu and www.academia.edu

While anti-West propagandists cite the Crusades as a bitter period in European - Muslim relations, there are arguments that Frankish occupied Middle East enjoyed a period of prosperity, freedom and peace. Propagandists also claim that Israel's creation was a violation of Palestinian sovereignty and that Western support to defend Israel has allowed atrocities to be committed against Muslims. These are perhaps arguments that need to be fairly discussed, and that will be in the used by extremists to justify deplorable acts against Israel and the West, but they are side issues to the public perception that the beauty of Islamic rituals are often marred by the intolerance of many and by the excesses of Sharia.

#29 | Posted by Augustine at 2016-09-20 11:59 AM | Reply

Correction to my 1st paragraph:

Everyone ought to understand the history and anthropology of the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia and these regions have the fastest growing population in the world. For example, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and the Gaza Strip all had population growth rates over 4% per year, meaning that they would double every 18 years. That trend has abated somewhat, but the region's population is expected to nearly quadruple during THIS CENTURY by 2099 from what it was in 2000.

#30 | Posted by Augustine at 2016-09-20 12:00 PM | Reply

No way in hell did he write all that by himself....

#32 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 12:11 PM | Reply

"What's your solution? Kill all of them? How many do you think we'll have to kill before they stop trying to kill us?"

You could start by isolating them and not letting them come here...are we really better off with them here than we would be with them somewhere else? Particularly when a huge number of the current imports are military aged males?

And I would think that true liberals would be the first to demand that they not be let in. The only reason I can think they wouldn't would be that it's by default an admission that multiculturalism is a sham-that some civilizations will always inevitably clash with others.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 12:17 PM | Reply

I would think that true liberals would be the first to demand that they not be let in.

You clearly have no clue what true liberals would be fine with.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 01:39 PM | Reply

I became physically ill

With fear...

Go join that other coward in the corner.. the one who .. well we all know who I mean.

#37 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 02:28 PM | Reply

For five bucks you can do something that 80% of Muslims have never done, read the founder's book.

Five bucks???

How about for free?

quran.com

#38 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 02:33 PM | Reply

The third time I read this text

I just noticed what you said .... and I would like to tell you...

Reading the whole thing 3 times automatically converts you into a Muslim.

Yep... momma raised an Einstein.

#39 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2016-09-20 02:37 PM | Reply

"You clearly have no clue what true liberals would be fine with."

Nor do you. I used the term "Liberal." What would a progressive like you know about that?

I suspect you would hem and haw and handwring if the US were admitting fascists refugees by the tens of thousands, providing they had white skin, but at the same time I'll hazard a guess you would support members of other oppressive political movements.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 02:37 PM | Reply

#40

Can you ever post anything that isn't an assumption about me coupled with hyperbole?

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 03:18 PM | Reply

Just for MadDummy

Liberal
lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/
adjective
1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
"they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
2.
(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
"a liberal education"
noun
1.
a person of liberal views.

Now that you know what liberal means. Reread your sentence.

"I would think that true liberals would be the first to demand that they not be let in."

Can you figure out why your sentence is absurd yet?

Next time instead of writing "I would think...", try actually thinking instead.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 03:24 PM | Reply

Stupid title. American Muslims or Muslims world wide? Because no way in hell do I believe Muslims living in the Arab World or Asia share our values. But I do believe most Muslims who come to America probably do share most of our values.

#43 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-09-20 03:51 PM | Reply

But I do believe most Muslims who come to America probably do share most of our values.
#43 | Posted by moder8

What values do we as Americans all share?
I can't think of a single thing.
Except maybe going insane for Black Friday.

This is part of the problem with America, there is no thing as a nation that can unify us. Maybe once upon a time it was defeating Communism, or going to the moon. For other countries they can at least look to their national health system with pride. We have nothing like that.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 04:32 PM | Reply

What values? Lots. Let's start with treatment of women. After we spend a few hours on that we can move on to treatment of gays and other minorities. Unless you have ever been to a place like Saudi Arabia it is difficult to conceive just how racist and caste-oriented traditional Arab society is. After we spend a few hours on these groups lets discuss elected versus dictator run government for a while.

Muslims in Asia and the Arab World despise pretty much everyone who is not them. In America, the vast majority of us aspire to something better.

#46 | Posted by moder8 at 2016-09-20 04:41 PM | Reply

Um... they don't. Look at the rights women have (or lack there of). They clearly don't share our values. It amazes me how liberals defend their horrible abuse of women!

#47 | Posted by TheDude at 2016-09-20 04:55 PM | Reply

Um... they don't. Look at the rights women have (or lack there of). They clearly don't share our values. It amazes me how liberals defend their horrible abuse of women!

#47 | POSTED BY THEDUDE

Are you talking about Muslims or Conservatives?

#48 | Posted by Sycophant at 2016-09-20 05:11 PM | Reply

Let's start with treatment of women.

Thank God we started treating women like human beings half a century ago so we can pretend superior morality. By the way. Not all Americans treat women altogether that great. Look up some domestic abuse stats. Some rape stats.

After we spend a few hours on that we can move on to treatment of gays and other minorities.

Lumping gays and minorities together? Gays are on the verge of being tolerated by the majority of Americans. But yes. It's been decades since we've heard about them being killed just because they were discovered to be homosexuals. There are still those pray the gay away centers and homosexual suicide rates are still high. But. Better than being hung from cranes or thrown off buildings.

Muslims in Asia and the Arab World despise pretty much everyone who is not them.

Same as white supremacists.

#49 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 05:33 PM | Reply

What values? Lots. Let's start with treatment of women.

That's not a value. That's an action.
A value would be that women are equal to mean.
Plenty of Americans don't believe that.
One of their heroines Phyllis Schlafly just died the other day.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 05:41 PM | Reply

Unless you have ever been to a place like Saudi Arabia

I lived there for a year.
You?

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 05:41 PM | Reply

Muslims in Asia and the Arab World despise pretty much everyone who is not them

Okay, but the topic was Muslims in America.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 05:43 PM | Reply

After we spend a few hours on these groups lets discuss elected versus dictator run government for a while.

How is this a Muslim thing?
But since you brought it up, people in Iraq were better off with a dictator than bombing them into elections.

Shall we discuss how Muslim Turkey has absorbed millions of refugees while Christian Europe has taken in maybe a tenth that percentage?

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 05:45 PM | Reply

Nearly half ― 48.9 percent ― of Americans also say they would disapprove if their child were to marry someone who is Muslim.

#1 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

Well yes.. But I'd be equally disturbed if they married a Mormon or a Baptist.

#54 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2016-09-20 05:53 PM | Reply

A value would be that women are equal to mean.

#50 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I hope you are suggesting that this value would be disgraceful.

Not all women are mean; dependent on their cooking.

#55 | Posted by Petrous at 2016-09-20 06:02 PM | Reply

For clarity that was the Bible's numbers 31:16-18 vs your Quran 5:33.

#57 | Posted by donnerboy at 2016-09-20 06:31 PM | Reply

"Can you figure out why your sentence is absurd yet?"

Nope?

I see you skewer Republcians each and every day for comments or beliefs that aren't remotely as extreme as those held by your average Muslim (as indicated through the much publicized Pew poll).

You would appear to be more open-minded towards Muslims than republcians. That doesn't seem very "liberal" to me...

"What values do we as Americans all share?"

Well, I don't think there is a cultural component within any American subculture that demands that other cultures be relegated to a subordinate role in society, to be done with as they please by the superior culture....there's that.

"By the way. Not all Americans treat women altogether that great. Look up some domestic abuse stats. Some rape stats."

And then compare them to the forced marriage stats, or the rape stats in the Muslim countries (it's technically punishable by death, but only if the rape is corroborated by a number of Muslim men-women don't count). Or the stats on honor killings. How many non-Muslim honor killings are you aware of?

Even the most abused women in the US is better off than her counterpart in the Islamic world, if for no other reason than here she has rights. And more people willing to support her than to leave her to her abusers because she's a woman.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 07:09 PM | Reply

I don't think there is a cultural component within any American subculture that demands that other cultures be relegated to a subordinate role in society

I guess that explain why all men in the military agree. Women should serve in combat.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 07:17 PM | Reply

And then compare them to the forced marriage stats

Unless they've changed their ways, forced marriages force equal numbers of men and women alike.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 07:18 PM | Reply

Even the most abused women in the US is better off than her counterpart in the Islamic world

I'm sure little miss JonBenet will agree, just as soon as she can be reached for comment.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 07:20 PM | Reply

"Same as white supremacists."

Would you welcome White Supremacists with same open arms you would welcome Muslims?

What if they were "moderate" White Supremacists?

"Okay, but the topic was Muslims in America."

...would hold vastly different views than Muslims elsewhere?

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 07:20 PM | Reply

"But since you brought it up, people in Iraq were better off with a dictator than bombing them into elections."

They were. So were the Egyptians. So were the Syrians. So were the Libyans. It was dictators who suppressed political Islam with extreme violence. Now we know why.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 07:20 PM | Reply

"I'm sure little miss JonBenet will agree, just as soon as she can be reached for comment."

If JonBenet had been born in a Muslim country, we'd know who murdered her.

It would have been legal and accepted by other Muslims. there would be no reason for the murderer to hide it.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 07:22 PM | Reply

It was dictators who suppressed political Islam with extreme violence. Now we know why.

If you didn't know that before, it's really only a testament to your own ignorance.
Heck even Bush I described it in his memoirs.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 07:24 PM | Reply

For clarity that was the Bible's numbers 31:16-18 vs your Quran 5:33.

#57 | Posted by donnerboy

Wow...that comment was sure left hanging after that bit of "moderation"

My apologies...I had no idea that quoting bible verses and comparing them against Quran verses was considered offensive.

#66 | Posted by donnerboy at 2016-09-20 07:29 PM | Reply

"If you didn't know that before, it's really only a testament to your own ignorance."

Known it for years. One of my last papers in college was on the US needing to find another suitable dictator if it overthrew Saddam.

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-20 07:54 PM | Reply

"Can you figure out why your sentence is absurd yet?"

Nope?

I figured providing you the definition of the word and the sentence you wrote would be illuminating for you.

A True Liberal doesn't oppose immigration.

Then again. Liberals were against war in the Middle East since day one. Had conservatives heeded our warning. There wouldn't be this massive diaspora.

#68 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 08:15 PM | Reply

I see you skewer Republcians each and every day for comments or beliefs that aren't remotely as extreme as those held by your average Muslim (as indicated through the much publicized Pew poll).
You would appear to be more open-minded towards Muslims than republcians. That doesn't seem very "liberal" to me...

I'm open minded. As should be obvious based on the majority of my posts on the DR since 2008.

I skewer republicans for their conservative and ultra conservative beliefs when ever I get an opportunity.

If we ever get a conservative Muslim on the DR espousing conservative virtues of Islam. I will, without hesitation, skewer them and their message.

I don't believe we see the average muslim represented on publicized polls. I know some muslims. You'll never see any extreme beliefs in their actions or worldview.

Allowing yourself to swept up in hysteria is irresponsible.

#69 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 08:26 PM | Reply

I don't think there is a cultural component within any American subculture that demands that other cultures be relegated to a subordinate role in society, to be done with as they please by the superior culture....anymore.

Thankfully. Liberals have had time to break conservative barriers and create a society where people of different cultures, races, and sexualities can live peacefully with one another.

#70 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 08:33 PM | Reply

"Same as white supremacists."

Would you welcome White Supremacists with same open arms you would welcome Muslims?

I've got neighbors and coworkers that are muslims. I'd happily invite them over before a white supremacist.

But. I wouldn't welcome a Muslim extremist in my house. Or any aggressively racist/ignorant person into my home.

The problem I have with your point of view is perfectly illustrated in your question.

It wasn't a white supremacist vs an Islamic extremist.

It was a white supremacist vs a Muslim.

There are billions of muslims on this planet. There are billions of christians on this planet. Some are good. Some are awful. But they're not all the same.

Liberals. Of any culture race religion gender sexuality... are open minded human beings. And I don't have anything against any of them.

We're all just trying to survive in this conservative dominated world we live in.

#71 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-20 08:45 PM | Reply

And robert smith's reason for changing lyrics in 2005 was based on ?

#72 | Posted by mutant at 2016-09-20 08:54 PM | Reply

I would agree with Muslims not sharing "our" values because there is no such thing as "our" values.
It's an impossibility to agree with something that doesn't exist.
We're a fairly deplorable nation, all told.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-20 09:58 PM | Reply

Some might perhaps find this a good thing.

#74 | Posted by fresno500 at 2016-09-21 06:43 AM | Reply

Hillary is carefully scripted, and especially so in these months of her campaign. Cameras were rolling and she knew it. It is a cardinal rule of politics that one should never attack the voters, the supporters of one's opponent, but only the opponent himself or herself. Why then did Hillary disparage the Trump supporters themselves in such a public way?

Hillary's "deplorable" remarks were aimed not at Trump supporters but at progressives. Her purpose is to shame liberal voters who might be willing to consider and discuss the issues that Donald Trump is raising in a rational way. After all, if you speak in favor of Trump because you support some of his ideas, you too may be quickly classified as a "deplorable." This applies most importantly to foreign policy where Clinton demonizes Putin as "Hitler" whereas Trump wants to "get along" with him, a policy of détente.

Hillary knows that progressives fear like death itself the racist label and rightly so given the nature of the racism beast. In fact today no American, other than a handful of obscure, powerless troglodytes, wants that label.
Yes, dear progressive, this ploy is meant to scare you out of rational thought about issues of war, peace and Empire, which can affect the very survival of human civilization. A small but growing number of leading progressives are refusing to be intimidated by Hillary's shameful ploy. (Prof. John V. Walsh, MD)

#75 | Posted by nutcase at 2016-09-21 11:10 AM | Reply

Fact is that Muslim values, dictated by the Quran, are different from the majority of Americans just as their Sharia Law is different and at odds with our legal system.

#76 | Posted by MSgt at 2016-09-21 12:21 PM | Reply

"A True Liberal doesn't oppose immigration."

So you would welcome Nazis and communists with open arms?

"I skewer republicans for their conservative and ultra conservative beliefs when ever I get an opportunity."

Yet you give Muslims, who tend to be even more conservative, a pass.

"There are billions of muslims on this planet. There are billions of Christians on this planet. Some are good. Some are awful. But they're not all the same."

You're comparing apples and oranges. Is Christianity a political system? Do Christians regard the bible as a legal document as much as they do a guide to faith? You're right, there are good Christians and bad Christians, but there aren't Christians seeking to install a worldwide version of the Christian caliphate. Nor will you find Christians who would support anything close to a Christian caliphate. Nor would you find Christians who believe the Christian laws and customs should be regarded as the basis for civil and criminal law. Many, many Muslims do.

And it's not that all Muslims are bad, anymore than it was true that all Nazis were bad. But they do adhere to a philosophy that is inherently threatening to liberal society.

"I would agree with Muslims not sharing "our" values because there is no such thing as "our" values."

In the US we can each hold different values and reasonably expect that we're not going to get beheaded for holding them.

"We're a fairly deplorable nation, all told."

Then go find somewhere less deplorable. You locked in a cage somewhere?

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-21 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

But they do adhere to a philosophy that is inherently threatening to liberal society.

Which boggles my mind as to why they would welcome them with open arms. They are literally welcoming in the destruction of future liberals..

#78 | Posted by boaz at 2016-09-21 03:44 PM | Reply

When... was the last beheading???

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 03:47 PM | Reply

You're right, there are good Christians and bad Christians, but there aren't Christians seeking to install a worldwide version of the Christian caliphate.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses both try to do this.

Nor would you find Christians who believe the Christian laws and customs should be regarded as the basis for civil and criminal law

Wrong. Many Christians believe that, Ted Cruz for example. They also like putting tge Ten Commandments up in the court house.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 03:51 PM | Reply

An overwhelming majority of Muslims in America are assimilated.

To be assimilated but not share our values? That's stupid.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 03:51 PM | Reply

We're a fairly deplorable nation, all told.

#73 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yeah, this is such a terrible place to live.

Cubans risk life and limb mounting pontoons to '50's ere cars to try and live here.

It speaks volumes that you think this is such a terrible country.

#82 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 03:53 PM | Reply

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses both try to do this.

Not by force.

Wrong. Many Christians believe that, Ted Cruz for example.

Citation needed.

#83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 03:55 PM | Reply

I think most people are deplorable.

You don't think it's deplorable that we are this rich of the country but we have so many people in poverty so many people without health care so many people poorly educated?

I walk past homeless veterans every time I go downtown.

I think it's a freaking disgrace.

I'm it says a lot about you that you don't.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 03:57 PM | Reply

JeffJ Just Google Ted Cruz being a Christian first and an American second.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 03:57 PM | Reply

You can't kill your way to peace.

Isnt that what every country or society that's at peace at one time had to do?

#86 | Posted by boaz at 2016-09-21 03:59 PM | Reply

That doesn't mean that he advocates the bible as our rule of law.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:00 PM | Reply

It speaks volumes that you think this is such a terrible country

Yeah well I have high standards. There's the winner and then there's about 225 loser nations on this planet. In just about every metric I can think of, we are not the winner.

What are we best at? Incarcerating people. It's deplorable. Isn't it.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:00 PM | Reply

#84 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I see the bad and the good.

You apparently only see the bad.

#89 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:00 PM | Reply

Case in point: #88.

#90 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:01 PM | Reply

Are you saying there is nothing good about this country?

#91 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:01 PM | Reply

We have the most speech freedom of any nation on earth.

Democrats and Progressives seek to undo that. It's deplorable, isn't it?

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:07 PM | Reply

We also have a retarded concept of freedom of speech which allows money to corrupt politics. Can you see that or can you not.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:09 PM | Reply

"That doesn't mean that he advocates the bible as our rule of law"

nor does it mean he would be able to push anything as POTUS advocating the bible as our rule of law

#94 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 04:10 PM | Reply

I don't have a problem with it.

What you advocate is book and movie banning. I will NEVER support that. I'll gladly take the negative tradeoffs of that kind of freedom of speech.

#95 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:10 PM | Reply

nor does it mean he would be able to push anything as POTUS advocating the bible as our rule of law
#94 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Correct. Snoofy isn't very good at drawing equivalence.

#96 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:11 PM | Reply

So.
Number one in incarceration.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:11 PM | Reply

Freedom of speech.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

Upward mobility.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

Bill of rights.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

Economic opportunity.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

Elected representative government.
Deplorable or not deplorable?

#98 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:13 PM | Reply

America has a lot of warts.

America also has a lot of greatness.

I see both. You don't.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:14 PM | Reply

I advocate public finance of elections and sll the "book banning" and "movie banning" a not-pay-to-play political process necessitates.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:15 PM | Reply

We also have a retarded concept of freedom of speech which allows money to corrupt politics. Can you see that or can you not.

#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Perhaps, but this election it doesn't seem to matter how much Clinton spends, so no I don't see the "retardedness" of it.

Yeah well I have high standards. - Snoofy
I dont think you do, but whatever...

There's the winner and then there's about 225 loser nations on this planet. In just about every metric I can think of, we are not the winner.

What about the average? Are we the best average??

If not, why stay? I mean an American can go anywhere in the world, any of the other 255, and take up residency. Why would you stay here? It doesn't make any sense, you can still fight your good fight for change here.

When... was the last beheading???
#79 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

2013
www.nj.com

#101 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-21 04:18 PM | Reply

I see plenty of greatness.

Regardless I truly don't want to participate in your We Heart America -----------. If that's deplorable, fine.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:19 PM | Reply

"A True Liberal doesn't oppose immigration."

So you would welcome Nazis and communists with open arms?

There's no such thing as a communist.

I'd welcome Germans. Just like I welcome Muslims.

Nazis and ISIS/al qaeda members not at all.

I wouldn't support internment camps. Such as the ones the Japanese were subjected to during WW2.

"I skewer republicans for their conservative and ultra conservative beliefs when ever I get an opportunity."

Yet you give Muslims, who tend to be even more conservative, a pass.

Talk about selective reading. Did you comprehend the sentence following the one you're responding to?

I don't give fundamentally conservative muslims a pass. But there happens to be none posting on the DR. And thus. No one to retort.

I frequently told off TosseRigel when ever he posted about the superiority of Pakistan to America.

But that may have been before your time on the DR.

Is Christianity a political system?

Yes. Christianity is definitely engrained into the political system of many countries in Europe. And there happens to be a country, the United States of America, which Christianity plays a deciding role in.

Do Christians regard the bible as a legal document as much as they do a guide to faith?

You must have slept through the whole "marriage equality" thing. you know. The one where the Bible says something vague about a man laying with another man as he would a woman. And Christians lost the f'n minds.

it's not that all Muslims are bad, anymore than it was true that all Nazis were bad. But they do adhere to a philosophy that is inherently threatening to liberal society.
#77 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

What a dishonest comparison from a dishonest poster.

All Nazi's were bad. Not all Germans were Nazis.

All Muslims aren't members of ISIS or Al Qaeda or hezbollah. Most of the billion plus member of that religion are normal, hard working human beings.

And crazy enough. I'm willing to bet. The majority of these billion plus muslims actually share many common values with Christians Jews Hindus Buddhists etc... [...]

#103 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 04:21 PM | Reply

I see plenty of greatness.

Really. It sure doesn't look like it from where I am sitting.

Regardless I truly don't want to participate in your We Heart America -----------.

Just pointing out the good with the bad. That you view that as some kind of ----------- in lieu of providing some much-needed context to your "I hate America" BS is on you.

#104 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:23 PM | Reply

I advocate public finance of elections and sll the "book banning" and "movie banning" a not-pay-to-play political process necessitates.
#100 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You advocate government censorship. I don't.

#105 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:24 PM | Reply

"Yeah well I have high standards."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

#106 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 04:25 PM | Reply

Nor would you find Christians who believe the Christian laws and customs should be regarded as the basis for civil and criminal law.

What does Trump mean by these comments:

Donald Trump, promising in a speech in Philadelphia on Wednesday to return prosperity and security to the U.S., vowed to create "one American nation" that will be "under one God."

"We will be one people, under one God, saluting one American flag," Trump declared from a podium in front of a half dozen American flags.

www.newsmax.com

TRUMP: This is my promise to all of you. Starting in 2017, we will be one American nation.

TRUMP: Imagine what our country could accomplish if we started working together as one people under one god saluting one flag.

www.npr.org

Donald Trump closed out his remarks at the Values Voter Summit today by once again doing his best imitation of a pious and committed Christian in an effort to appeal to the Religious Right activists who had gathered for the conference.

After heaping praise upon the late Phyllis Schlafly, whose last name he mispronounced as "Chafly," Trump really started to pour on the God talk.

"We're all equal and we all come from same Creator," Trump said. "There's a biblical verse that I've often read and I want to repeat it again because I think it is so important to what we're trying to achieve right now for our country. It's from 1 John: 4: No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in us and His love is made complete in us."

"So true," Trump said. "So True."

"Imagine what our country could accomplish if we started working together as one people, under one God, saluting one flag," Trump concluded, apparently anticipating a future in which every American, regardless of religion, is required to worship Jesus Christ.

www.rightwingwatch.org

Does he mean he is going to appoint SC justices that will undercut the separation between church and state? As with most issues, no one really knows what Trump means or will do.

#107 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#77 You're right, there are good Christians and bad Christians, but there aren't Christians seeking to install a worldwide version of the Christian caliphate.

---------: What is white supremacy?

Different name, same result.

#108 | Posted by fresno500 at 2016-09-21 04:30 PM | Reply

You advocate government censorship. I don't.

Unless you think pornography should be on broadcast TV, you also support censorship.

I support insulating the political process from the corrupting effects of money.
Why don't you support that?

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:32 PM | Reply

JeffJ Just Google Ted Cruz being a Christian first and an American second.

Here's Pence on the subject:

"I'm a Christian, a conservative and a Republican," Pence said. "In that order."

Pence understood well the biggest issue at stake for pro-life voters -- whether another four decades of abortion are yet to come.

"As this election approaches, every American should know that while we're filling the presidency for the next four years, this election will define the Supreme Court for the next 40," he added. ""For the sake of the sanctity of life… We must ensure the next president is Donald Trump."

www.lifenews.com

#110 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 04:33 PM | Reply

I see plenty of greatness.

Really. It sure doesn't look like it from where I am sitting.

That's a reflection of your attitude about... me.
Am I supposed to name great things now, to prove I'm not a Commie or something?
Grow up.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:33 PM | Reply

An overwhelming majority of Muslims in America are assimilated.
To be assimilated but not share our values? That's stupid.
#81 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2016-09-21 03:51 PM | FLAG:

American Muslims do share our values. Or. More precisely. They share values with the majority of Americans.

This article isn't about American Muslims not sharing the same values as the majority of Americans.

It's about close minded people not believing they do.

Just read anything posted by MadBummer. He literally equates Muslims to Nazis.

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 04:33 PM | Reply

"I'm a Christian, a conservative and a Republican," Pence said. "In that order."

JeffJ, can you explain what that means?

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:33 PM | Reply

It is difficult to understand the internet agnostic/atheist hand-wringing over any Republican politician's adherence to the Christian faith.

Hillary Clinton, Queen-elect of the Democrat party, is no difference in her adherence and public support of the Bible and utilizing the Good Book as a "big influence" in guidance for her stately decisions as a lawmaker.

"At the risk of appearing predictable, the Bible was and remains the biggest influence on my thinking. I was raised reading it and being guided by it. I still find it a source of wisdom, comfort and encouragement." - Hillary Clinton, in an interview on Books to the NYT

#114 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-09-21 04:34 PM | Reply

It is difficult to understand the internet agnostic/atheist hand-wringing over any Republican politician's adherence to the Christian faith.

It's not the Christian part, or the faith part, it's the let's ban abortions because G-d part.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:35 PM | Reply

JeffJ, can you explain what that means?

#113 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It means just what he said.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:35 PM | Reply

Can you explain the meaning, because I don't understand what it means.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:38 PM | Reply

"The majority of these billion plus muslims actually share many common values with Christians Jews Hindus Buddhists etc..."

---------. 89% of Pakistani muslims think stoning a woman to death for adultery is just fine. Name a Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Pastafarian country that comes anywhere close.

"In Pakistan (89%) and Afghanistan (85%), more than eight-in-ten Muslims who want Islamic law as their country's official law say adulterers should be stoned, while nearly as many say the same in the Palestinian territories (84%) and Egypt (81%). A majority also support stoning as a penalty for the unfaithful in Jordan (67%), Iraq (58%)."

www.pewforum.org

#118 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-09-21 04:39 PM | Reply

Didn't he just renege on his Oath of Office, where he swore to uphold and defend the Constitution?

What happens when the Constitution comes into conflict with Christianity?

Christ comes first, yes?

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:40 PM | Reply

It's funny anyone would pretend America isn't a Christian nation.

Bernie's religiousness was questioned right off the bat and listed as one of the reasons why he'd have a difficult time getting elected.

Try being honest with yourselves.

#120 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 04:40 PM | Reply

That's a reflection of your attitude about... me.
Am I supposed to name great things now, to prove I'm not a Commie or something?
Grow up.

#111 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You called this a deplorable country.

I pointed out some reasons why it's not. For some reason that pisses you off.

Unless you think pornography should be on broadcast TV, you also support censorship.

There you go with your awful attempt at equivalence. Again. That is not even remotely akin to what you are advocating and you know it. Grow up.

I advocate public finance of elections and sll the "book banning" and "movie banning" a not-pay-to-play political process necessitates.
#100 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I know you do. You are perfectly fine with government censorship. I am not.

What is truly ironic is that you advocate the government vastly exceed its constitutionally enumerated powers yet you fail to see that a massive and over-reaching federal government literally breeds money into politics.

#121 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:41 PM | Reply

Didn't he just renege on his Oath of Office, where he swore to uphold and defend the Constitution?
What happens when the Constitution comes into conflict with Christianity?
Christ comes first, yes?

#119 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

John Roberts was asked a version of that when he was going through the process - he put his fealty to the Constitution above all.

You are going by insinuation. When you can provide a situation where not only does he advocate making the Constitution subservient to Christ and actually takes actions on that I will be right with you on this.

What is funny to me is that you clapped every time Obama violated the Constitution. Situational ethics and all that.

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:43 PM | Reply

You called this a deplorable country.

Actually I said "We're a fairly deplorable nation, all told."
But I guess you don't think bombing weddings is deplorable.
Good for you!

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:45 PM | Reply

John Roberts was asked a version of that when he was going through the process - he put his fealty to the Constitution above all.

Pence just said the opposite.
Obviously, well hopefully, it was a political stunt.
Isn't that deplorable?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:46 PM | Reply

You are perfectly fine with government censorship. I am not.

So you think pornography should be allowed on broadcast TV?
I think you're lying.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:47 PM | Reply

Mitt Romney is a Mormon.

Mitt Romney doesn't drink alcohol due to his adherence to his religion.

Mitt Romney has NEVER advocated for prohibition nor did he ever make it an issue at the state level when he was governor.

That is fundamentally different than Sharia law.

#123 makes no sense whatsoever.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:47 PM | Reply

You're right, there are good Christians and bad Christians, but there aren't Christians seeking to install a worldwide version of the Christian caliphate.

Maybe not a worldwide Christian caliphate, but there are plenty of Christians in this country who believe that America is a Christian nation and who are mighty distressed by things like legal abortion and gay marriage, etc. They want to overturn all that liberal, Satan-inspired ideology and impose their version of Christian law on this country. Hence, the importance of selecting the next SC justices.

#127 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 04:48 PM | Reply

So you think pornography should be allowed on broadcast TV?
I think you're lying.

#125 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Prohibiting pornography on broadcast TV is not censorship. Making pornography illegal altogether is censorship. That you don't understand the difference is rather pathetic.

#128 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 04:49 PM | Reply

Mitt Romney has NEVER advocated for prohibition nor did he ever make it an issue at the state level when he was governor.

He made it an issue for his workers by never having any coffee in the office. Same for the journalists following him on the campaign trail. Imagine working without coffee. I can't.

Heck I can't even imagine working, right Eberly!

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:50 PM | Reply

Prohibiting pornography on broadcast TV is not censorship.

You're dumb.

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:50 PM | Reply

89% of Pakistani muslims think stoning a woman to death for adultery is just fine. Name a Christian/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Pastafarian country that comes anywhere close.

It's barbaric. I agree. Worse yet are the acid attacks.

And though no one thinks it's "just fine".

"About 4,000 women die each year due to domestic violence. Of the total domestic violence homicides, about 75% of the victims were killed as they attempted to leave the relationship or after the relationship had ended. Seventy-three percent of male abusers were abused as children."

www.domesticabuseshelter.org

Domestic abuse is prevalent in America as well.

#131 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 04:51 PM | Reply

#129

right

#133 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 04:52 PM | Reply

#133 I'm literally grinding coffee as I type this. Okay well I had to stop to type this. You get the idea.

Seriously, imagine being a beat reporter assigned to the Romney campaign and your job is to follow him everywhere and there's nary a cup of coffee to be found.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:54 PM | Reply

Here's another thing that's deplorable about America. We repealed all our usury laws back in the 1970s.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:55 PM | Reply

Muslims certainly don't share that value. They do not allow usury. Traditionally they even frown on credit. Which... is what America was like back before we handed our nation over to the bankers.

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 04:56 PM | Reply

Seriously, imagine being a beat reporter assigned to the Romney campaign and your job is to follow him everywhere and there's nary a cup of coffee to be found.
#134 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

How can he dictate no coffee for people who are not his employees? What a dick.

#137 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2016-09-21 05:02 PM | Reply

Is not standing up for the national anthem... deplorable?

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:02 PM | Reply

How can he dictate no coffee for people who are not his employees? What a dick.

Deplorably dickish.

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:03 PM | Reply

Is not standing up for the national anthem... deplorable?

#138 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I think it's dickish, but it's not deplorable. He's exercising his 1st Amendment right to freedom of expression - a right that you would like the government to revoke. [...]

#143 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 05:09 PM | Reply

He's exercising his 1st Amendment right to freedom of expression - a right that you would like the government to revoke.

Actually what I would like the government to revoke is the money they paid the NFL for these ridiculous displays of patriotism.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:10 PM | Reply

Prohibiting pornography on broadcast TV is not censorship.

It is government censorship. It's just censorship that's popular with the public and allowed under Supreme Court First Amendment decisions.

#145 | Posted by rcade at 2016-09-21 05:10 PM | Reply

like equating the banning of ----- ---- with criminalizing the act of producing a movie that is critical of a politician.

Both are acts of censorship.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:10 PM | Reply

[...] Minors are prohibited from a number of things, like voting, buying/drinking alcohol, buying/smoking cigarettes, etc.

You are grasping at straws. [...]

#147 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 05:10 PM | Reply

JeffJ how did you get this far in life without hearing George Carlin's Seven Dirty Words bit?
Those are the words you cant say on TV
And what do we call it when you can't say something? Deplorable?

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:12 PM | Reply

Really. You cant say the word child in proximity to the word pornography.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:13 PM | Reply

It is government censorship. It's just censorship that's popular with the public and allowed under Supreme Court First Amendment decisions.

#145 | POSTED BY RCADE

Broadcast TV is a regulated market.

Censorship would be to make pornography illegal altogether. Preventing it from being shown in certain venues isn't censorship. [...]

#150 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 05:17 PM | Reply

Censorship would be to make pornography illegal altogether.

Plenty of it is.
Especially if anyone depicted is under 18.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:19 PM | Reply

Preventing it from being shown in certain venues isn't censorship.

It's not?

Is preventing books from being shelved in certain school libraries censorship?

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:21 PM | Reply

Here's another thing that's deplorable about America. We repealed all our usury laws back in the 1970s.

#135 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2016-09-21 04:55 PM

Wrong.

Every State has usury laws, some just have more exceptions than others. Looks like someone has been cutting class a little too much lately.

#154 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 05:22 PM | Reply

#154 Those rates are specific to the collection industry, and have nothing to do with loan origination.

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:24 PM | Reply

But you are right, I should not have said "all our usury laws."

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 05:31 PM | Reply

#134

Snoofy, our chairman at my company is a Mormon.

no coffee period. But he doesn't care about the employees drinking it and our company provides it.

Weird thing the coffee rule with Mormons.

#157 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 06:51 PM | Reply

"The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property -- either as a child, a wife, or a concubine -- must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science -- the science against which it had vainly struggled -- the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome"

Winston Churchill on Islam

but, what would he know.

#158 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 07:26 PM | Reply

"I studied the Quran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. As far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.[8]

Muhammad professed to derive from Heaven, and he has inserted in the Koran, not only a body of religious doctrines, but political maxims, civil and criminal laws, and theories of science. The gospel, on the contrary, only speaks of the general relations of men to God and to each other - beyond which it inculcates and imposes no point of faith. This alone, besides a thousand other reasons, would suffice to prove that the former of these religions will never long predominate in a cultivated and democratic age, whilst the latter is destined to retain its sway at these as at all other periods.[9]"

Alexis de Tocqueville

clearly a deplorable

#159 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 07:32 PM | Reply

"Bolshevism combines the characteristics of the French Revolution with those of the rise of Islam… Those who accept Bolshevism become impervious to scientific evidence, and commit intellectual suicide. Even if all the doctrines of Bolshevism were true, this would still be the case, since no unbiased examination of them is tolerated…Among religions, Bolshevism is to be reckoned with Mohammedanism rather than with Christianity and Buddhism. Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions, with mystical doctrines and a love of contemplation. Mohammedanism and Bolshevism are practical, social, unspiritual, concerned to win the empire of the world"

Bertrand Russell

idiot liberal philosopher

#160 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 07:34 PM | Reply

"Mahomet established a religion by putting his enemies to death; Jesus Christ by commanding his followers to lay down their lives"

Blaise Pascal

some dumb science dude

#161 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 07:35 PM | Reply

"Islam is very different, being ferociously intolerant. What I may call Manifold Monotheism becomes in the minds of very simple folk an absurdly polytheistic idolatry, just as European peasants not only worship Saints and the Virgin as Gods, but will fight fanatically for their faith in the ugly little black doll who is the Virgin of their own Church against the black doll of the next village. When the Arabs had run this sort of idolatry to such extremes [that] they did this without black dolls and worshipped any stone that looked funny, Mahomet rose up at the risk of his life and insulted the stones shockingly, declaring that there is only one God, Allah, the glorious, the great… And there was to be no nonsense about toleration. You accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell"

George Bernard Shaw

freaking English playwright...or some liberal BS job

#162 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 07:39 PM | Reply

some dumb science dude

On religion, he was quite dumb. He walked around with a board with nails driven into it under his shirt, so he could press the nails into his flesh to punish himself if he had any prurient thoughts.

Today we know enough to separate S&M and religion.

Pascal is also famous for his wager, where the reason to believe in G-d is what if it's true, you wouldn't want to spend eternity in a lake of fire.

That's not faith, that's gambling. It's G-d as the Godfather, making you an offer you can't refuse.

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 07:42 PM | Reply

Christianity and Buddhism are primarily personal religions

I guess he never set foot in an American megachurch.

#164 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 07:44 PM | Reply

Casey, thanks for pointing out that Churchill, Shaw, Pascal and de Tocqueville are all "deplorables", how dare they point out, as Shaw did, that "[y]ou accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell."

#165 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 07:49 PM | Reply

"[y]ou accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell."

Weird, none of my Muslim friends have ever tried to cut my throat.
Have yours?

#166 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 07:50 PM | Reply

Have yours?

C'mon now, I am a white male 1%er living in the West Side of LA, do you think that the Sheikhs and Princes that are my friends would cut my throat themselves? Of course they would get someone else to do their dirty work.

#167 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 07:56 PM | Reply

Actually what I would like the government to revoke is the money they paid the NFL for these ridiculous displays of patriotism.

#144 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It burns your craw that people love this country and feel a sense of patriotism when they hear the anthem; doesn't it?

#168 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 07:59 PM | Reply

But apparently they still haven't offed you yet.
Do you thank your lucky stars they put lazy black Muslims on the case?

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 07:59 PM | Reply

It burns your craw that people love this country and feel a sense of patriotism when they hear the anthem; doesn't it
#168 | Posted by JeffJ

Phony contrived patriotism is offensive.
But more importantly, it's dangerous.
You realize the DOD started this thing back in 2009, right?
Before then the players weren't even on the field for the national anthem.
dailysnark.com

#170 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:02 PM | Reply

#169

Your words, not mine...and you accuse others of being racist.

#171 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 08:02 PM | Reply

all 32 NFL teams were received $723,734 for "acts of sponsored patriotism"

Phony patriotism should disgust you too, JeffJ.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:02 PM | Reply

Your words, not mine...and you accuse others of being racist.

I responded to your stupid remark with a stupid remark.
Don't like it? Don't talk stupid and it won't happen.

#173 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:03 PM | Reply

Don't like it? Don't talk stupid and it won't happen.

Looks like someone needs a time-out. Why don't you go back to your "job" of handing out leaflets in your Che Guevara t-shirt in front of the Student Union for a while, that will calm you down a little.

#174 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 08:07 PM | Reply

Turns out I'm done leafleting and I'm now at your mom's house.

#175 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:09 PM | Reply

"Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses both try to do this."

Huh?

"Wrong. Many Christians believe that, Ted Cruz for example. They also like putting tge Ten Commandments up in the court house."

Mmmm. No. I don't think TC does. Or if he does, he's never said it. And if we're trying to create a Christian empire, we're failing miserably. but not beheading those residents in the Muslims countries who are unwilling to bend the knee to Jesus.

"There's no such thing as a communist."

Is that another way of saying you would let communists in because you approve of thier authoritarian tendencies?

"All Muslims aren't members of ISIS or Al Qaeda or hezbollah. Most of the billion plus member of that religion are normal, hard working human beings."

What you seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand is that Islam is a political movement. Like Communism. Or Facism. Or Anarchism. And if I read you correctly, you've already stated that members of opprressive political movements, such as the Nazis, cannot be good people.

You'll have to explain to me why all Nazis are bad when all Muslims are not, when both are devotees of political movements that are at least equally oppressive and vile.

#176 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-21 08:13 PM | Reply

"Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses both try to do this."
Huh?

They try to convert you.
Does your home lack a front door? Perhaps that's why they never knock on it.

#177 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:14 PM | Reply

And if we're trying to create a Christian empire, we're failing miserably.

Ted Cruz is not President.

#178 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:14 PM | Reply

but not beheading those residents in the Muslims countries who are unwilling to bend the knee to Jesus

We merely bomb residents who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Which also serves as an apt description for anyone beheaded by ISIS.

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:16 PM | Reply

"Turns out I'm done leafleting and I'm now at your mom's house."

Ten bucks says his mom would beat your silly ass senseless.

#181 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-21 08:20 PM | Reply

It is government censorship. It's just censorship that's popular with the public and allowed under Supreme Court First Amendment decisions.

So too, was the ban on Hillary: The Movie. It's just censorship that's popular with the public and not allowed under Supreme Court First Amendment decisions.

#182 | Posted by et_al at 2016-09-21 08:22 PM | Reply

Andy good progressive will tell you that the need for censorship is subjective...

#183 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-21 08:24 PM | Reply

Ten bucks says his mom would beat your silly ass senseless.

#181 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2016-09-21 08:20 PM

Where do I mail your check, she sent him to the emergency room.

#184 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 08:24 PM | Reply

Ted Cruz and the Ten Commandments on government property:

"We defended the Ten Commandments monument that stands on the state Capitol grounds," Mr. Cruz told National Review. "We went to the U.S. Supreme Court, and we won, 5 to 4."

. . .

Here's what he did: He led the team that wrote the brief in the Ten Commandments case. When that went to the Supreme Court, the actual presentation was shared by Mr. Cruz's boss, Mr. Abbott, and Paul D. Clement, then the interim United States solicitor general, arguing on the state's behalf from his federal post. Mr. Cruz's name was on the briefs, with Mr. Abbott's and six others, but Mr. Cruz did not make the oral arguments.

www.nytimes.com

#185 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 08:33 PM | Reply

Ten bucks says his mom would beat your silly ass senseless.

I know! She's got ham hocks for upper arms. Very matronly.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:33 PM | Reply

I know! She's got ham hocks for upper arms. Very matronly.

She's 82 years old, is 5'1" and weighs 110 lbs, but I guess its a matter of perspective.

#187 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 08:35 PM | Reply

Oh, then I guess it must have been her girlfriend I seen.

#189 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:36 PM | Reply

Ted Cruz on twitter:

Sadly, removal of a similar #TenCommandments monument from OK Capitol is latest chapter in an ongoing assault on religious liberty in the US

twitter.com

#190 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 08:37 PM | Reply

Oh, then I guess it must have been her girlfriend I seen.

No, that was her.

#191 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-21 08:39 PM | Reply

What I find interesting is that Muslims don't try to put Sharia law on the Court House grounds, but Christians do.

Even with their legal right to put sharia law on the court house grounds right next to the Ten Commandments, they don't even bother.

Hmm. Maybe someone should pick up the slack. It would be great if the Satanists did it for them.

#192 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 08:40 PM | Reply

"There's no such thing as a communist."

Is that another way of saying you would let communists in because you approve of thier authoritarian tendencies?

No. it's a way of saying. There's no such thing as a real communist. Communism is only found in the pages of a book.

"All Muslims aren't members of ISIS or Al Qaeda or hezbollah. Most of the billion plus member of that religion are normal, hard working human beings."

What you seem to lack the intellectual capacity to understand is that Islam is a political movement. Like Communism. Or Facism. Or Anarchism. And if I read you correctly, you've already stated that members of opprressive political movements, such as the Nazis, cannot be good people.

Islam is a religion. Your attempt to turn it into a political movement is absurd.

You'll have to explain to me why all Nazis are bad when all Muslims are not, when both are devotees of political movements that are at least equally oppressive and vile.
#176 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2016-09-21 08:13 PM | REPLY

You're obviously too stupid to comprehend what you read.

Try reading this again.

"All Muslims aren't members of ISIS or Al Qaeda or hezbollah. Most of the billion plus member of that religion are normal, hard working human beings."

If you're too stupid to be able to differentiate between regular people and militants. Then. I can't help you.

#193 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 08:44 PM | Reply

All Nazis are Nazis. All Germans during WWII were not Nazis.

All Islamic terrorist are Islamic terrorist. All Muslims are not Islamic terrorist.

#194 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 08:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"s"

#195 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 08:48 PM | Reply

Phony contrived patriotism is offensive.

Just because you view the anthem as phony and contrived doesn't mean others view it that way.

#196 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 08:49 PM | Reply

#194

Thanks. Perhaps your simple breakdown will help MadBum comprehend such an obvious fact.

#197 | Posted by ClownShack at 2016-09-21 09:02 PM | Reply

#197 I'm not holding my breath.

#198 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-21 09:05 PM | Reply

Just because you view the anthem as phony and contrived doesn't mean others view it that way.
#196 | Posted by JeffJ

If you don't view "received $723,734 for acts of sponsored patriotism" as phony, then what would be phony patriotism? Or is there simply no such thing.

#199 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:10 PM | Reply

JeffJ If I put a flag up in front of my house, and it turns out I'm getting paid for it, am I really a patriot?

No. I'm an opportunist.

Now, it's completely believable that plenty of people enjoy looking at the flag and hearing the national anthem.

But they're part of a marketing program paid for by the Department of Defense. Marketing that works on people like you.

#200 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:17 PM | Reply

Back on topic.

I know or work with hundreds of Muslims ranging from physicians to realistate agents to contractors to convenience store owners. With very few exceptions, they all say the same thing.

We hate you so it is perfectly accessible to steal from you in order to compete with you in order to kill you.

Muslims wants non-Muslims dead. And we know this because they keep telling us so.

#201 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2016-09-21 09:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Snoofy,

I've only been to 2 NFL games in my entire life. I can't speak for the anthem being played at NFL games.

I've been to countless college basketball and college football games and I like hearing the anthem before the game. Apparently it really bothers you but I don't care. Don't like the anthem being played before sporting events? Nobody is forcing you to participate.

#202 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 09:32 PM | Reply

Don't like the anthem being played before sporting events? Nobody is forcing you to participate.

Nobody forced anyone to criticize Kaepernick either.
Turns out he and all the rest of the NFL is a prop in an elaborate display of phony patriotism.
I'm glad his "protest" of doing nothing brought the truth to light.

#203 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:34 PM | Reply

I like hearing the anthem before the game.

Why stop there? Play it every morning when you arrive at the office. You'd like that, right?

#204 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:35 PM | Reply

I actually sang our national anthem on a train full of Germans once. Because some German chicks asked me to. Turns out I'm just an opportunist too...

#205 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:36 PM | Reply

- I like hearing the anthem before the game

"Racist!!!"

-snoofy

#206 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 09:37 PM | Reply

Back on topic.

With a valueless anecdote.

#207 | Posted by REDIAL at 2016-09-21 09:39 PM | Reply

Nobody forced anyone to criticize Kaepernick either.
Turns out he and all the rest of the NFL is a prop in an elaborate display of phony patriotism.
I'm glad his "protest" of doing nothing brought the truth to light.

#203 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You are one angry dude.

#208 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 09:41 PM | Reply

I actually sang our national anthem on a train full of Germans once. Because some German chicks asked me to. Turns out I'm just an opportunist too...

#205 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Good for you.

BTW - Kaepernick isn't protesting the 'phoniness' of the anthem itself. But then, you knew that already.

#209 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 09:42 PM | Reply

You are one angry dude.

You don't think anger is an appropriate response to the government spending money on a play right out of the Goebbels field manual?

#210 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 09:45 PM | Reply

You don't think anger is an appropriate response to the government spending money on a play right out of the Goebbels field manual?

#210 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

So, you're upset about the government spending money to promote this?

That is something I understand.

I wasn't aware of this story until you brought it up. I did a quick google and found something strange - not ALL teams received money for displays of patriotism. Only certain teams did, although the article I just read didn't specify which teams. THAT would be interesting to uncover.

Do you have a good source for this story?

#211 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 09:54 PM | Reply

No, in fact I first heard about it on Facebook but it turns out to be true.

This manner of propaganda is the hallmark of the fascist. And people eat it up; you for example.

#212 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:12 PM | Reply

This is not to say that you're a fascist but rather that during those two minutes your mind share has been bought by fascists.

#213 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:13 PM | Reply

Let me put it this way. Fans at the NFL game are grassroots patriots but they're playing on Astroturf.

#214 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:15 PM | Reply

Snoofy..singlehandidly representing the disease of political correctness. It truly is a sickness.

#215 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2016-09-21 10:19 PM | Reply

Political correctness is why you stand up for the anthem, and why you criticize those who don't stand.

#216 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:25 PM | Reply

I love this country and get a feeling of patriotism when I hear the anthem. It's funny to me that you are so bothered by it. What do you do when you hear the anthem? Burn a flag?

#217 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 10:28 PM | Reply

Most people stand during the anthem out of love and respect for this country. It's quite telling that you have utter disdain for it.

#218 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-21 10:30 PM | Reply

It's quite telling that you have utter disdain for it.

It's quite telling that even when the spectacle is revealed as paid advertising, you don't.

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:31 PM | Reply

Jeff, as do most folks.

well.....normal folks.

my feeling of patriotism has nothing to do with a professional sports team earning dollars for their displays.

It's the same when I'm at high school football game.

#220 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:32 PM | Reply

Most people stand during the anthem out of love and respect for this country

No they don't.
They stand because everyone else is standing.
Ever been to a different church, where they stand, sit, and kneel at different times than you're used to?
Notice how easy it was to go along with the herd?

Candid Camera has done this skit many times, if enough people do something odd, the mark goes along with it.
Same thing happens when the national anthem plays.

Fact is, you can love and respect your country from the comfort of your seat.

Really, the only people your display is for is everyone else around you. It shows conformity and unity. Which is fine. But my country doesn't need that from me.

#221 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:34 PM | Reply

What do you do when you hear the anthem? Burn a flag?

Nah, too much CO2.

#222 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

JeffJ
When you see that ubiquitous huge American flag outside of the car lot, what do you think?
Do you swell up with pride, knowing your love of this nation is being used to sell you a car?

#223 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:36 PM | Reply

It's the same when I'm at high school football game.
#220 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Agreed, but Snoofy couldn't possibly enjoy the spectacle of people caring about a country that has flaws.

This is his burden, such high standards, absolutely nothing could attain his literalness. He couldn't even bring himself to the idea, that the system is built so that it can improve.

This is the true burden of being a literalist, nothing is dynamic.

He would rather tear it down rather than work for change.

As I said, we will one day soon not have any anthem played or pledge for the nation, the divisiveness of hatred is overriding common sense.

#224 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-21 10:37 PM | Reply

my feeling of patriotism has nothing to do with a professional sports team earning dollars for their displays

Good for you.

But the question remains, why would the Department of Defense pay teams to have athletes stand at attention for the national anthem. What do they think they're buying?

#225 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:38 PM | Reply

Snoofy couldn't possibly enjoy the spectacle of people caring about a country that has flaws.

I only get nationalistic for international events.
Such as the Olympics or the Wold Cup, where our athletes are actually representing America.
I'm not quite clear on why I should feel patriotic for America when Miami plays Cleveland.

#226 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:40 PM | Reply

"why would the Department of Defense pay teams to have athletes stand at attention for the national anthem"

they are a bloated federal bureaucracy that has millions to throw in the ocean.

It's insane they spend my money on that but I see your point.......it's about the average NFL fan, you see.

#227 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:42 PM | Reply

"When you see that ubiquitous huge American flag outside of the car lot, what do you think?
Do you swell up with pride, knowing your love of this nation is being used to sell you a car?"

at least nobody is subsidizing that.

but it's about the emotion of buying a car.

car dealers love emotion....not logic.

#228 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:43 PM | Reply

the system is built so that it can improve

In many ways see little opportunity for meaningful systemic improvement.
Can you think of an issue we can get 38 States to agree on so we can amend the Constitution? I can't.
So we end up with gay marriage "forced" through the courts, because nobody can agree on anything any more, and we're all Outraged! about whatever pet issue; yours being immigration for example.

#229 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:44 PM | Reply

at least nobody is subsidizing that.

But if they were, most people wouldn't mind, because they like loving Murica.

#230 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:45 PM | Reply

car dealers love emotion....not logic.

So do people who want a nation to wage war against a vicious, ruthless enemy.

#231 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:46 PM | Reply

"In many ways see little opportunity for meaningful systemic improvement."

that's because you are an impatient petulant child.

many great things in our society were earned through "meaningful systemic improvement".

we didn't shove civil rights through overnight. women's sufferage, health care reform, and even same sex marriage rights will be a reality.

Like Jeff said earlier....you're angry.

#232 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:48 PM | Reply

"So do people who want a nation to wage war against a vicious, ruthless enemy."

is everything a gigantic conspiracy to you?

#233 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:49 PM | Reply

Snoofy couldn't possibly enjoy the spectacle of people caring about a country that has flaws.

It's funny that you guys think I'm way off the deep end.
My views are very moderate, perhaps slightly right, for a place like Germany.
A place where there may have been some government sponsored flag waving in the past.

That turned out to be a generational split too, with the old timers thinking um, I remember what happened last time we did this, and the youth more wrapped up in the moment.

Oh, I should mention the precipitating event for this was Germany hosting the World Cup in 1998. Some people were actually relieved Germany didn't win because the rise of German pride has extremely troubling implications for them.

See what happens when you travel? You get perspective.

#234 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:51 PM | Reply

many great things in our society were earned through "meaningful systemic improvement".

Can you list some over the past 40 years?

#235 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:51 PM | Reply

same sex marriage

Not achieved through meaningful systemic improvement.
But through the courts simply applying law.
In fact, the system worked tooth and nail to ban it.

#236 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:53 PM | Reply

is everything a gigantic conspiracy to you?

No, plus this is not even a conspiracy, as the fact that DOD paid for NFL patriotic displays is not a secret.

Troll harder.

#237 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:54 PM | Reply

Snoofy.....are you the guy who shows up at a 4th of July parade yelling at the kids holding little American flags handed out by folks on a float?

"put those down, ---------!!!! This is just like Nazi Germany!!!!"

#238 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:54 PM | Reply

No, the Fourth of July is the one day of the year it seems appropriate to blindly love everything about America.

Also I think we should be allowed to shoot people who fly the Confederate flag on that day, but that's just me.

#239 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:56 PM | Reply

"Not achieved through meaningful systemic improvement.
But through the courts simply applying law.
In fact, the system worked tooth and nail to ban it."

you're an idiot.....and again...the petulant and childishness is showing.

of course the system has obstacles....it ALWAYS does.

nothing meaningful happens without challenges and obstacles.

public opinion shifted...courts shifted.....and bad laws were struck down.

THAT's why this country is great.

#240 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:56 PM | Reply

Unlike you guys, I don't take flag waving casually.

#241 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:57 PM | Reply

"My views are very moderate, perhaps slightly right, for a place like Germany."

what does that tell you?

#242 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:57 PM | Reply

public opinion shifted...courts shifted.....and bad laws were struck down.

Again, that's not a change that occurred through engagement of the political apparatus.
It happened in spite of it.

#243 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:58 PM | Reply

what does that tell you?

That I'm a centrist.

#244 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 10:58 PM | Reply

I don't wave a flag. I don't even put one out on holidays.

I visit graves on Memorial day?

What propaganda am I a victim of on that day?

what's wrong with all of us on that day?

#245 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 10:59 PM | Reply

What propaganda am I a victim of on that day?

Dunno. But if the DOD paid for your trip to Arlington, then the answer is the Pentagon.

#246 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:00 PM | Reply

"Again, that's not a change that occurred through engagement of the political apparatus.
It happened in spite of it."

have you seen "The Jetsons" cartoon? you realize that you can't really push a button and immediately get a fresh pizza, right?

you're as wrong as you could be. what you are crying about are the obstacles. [...]

#247 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:01 PM | Reply

"But if the DOD paid for your trip to Arlington"

lemme guess.....the honor flights are bad things too, right?

#248 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:02 PM | Reply

what's wrong with all of us on that day?

Couldn't tell ya.
I always make a habit of reading Dulce et Decorum est by Wilfred Owen on Memorial Day.
Maybe you should give that a go.
www.poetryfoundation.org

#249 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:02 PM | Reply

#249

weaksauce

#250 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:04 PM | Reply

you're as wrong as you could be

Physician, heal thyself.

Gay marriage happened in spite of massive political opposition, mostly at the State level, including many states that voted to make it illegal; and in the years prior, at the Federal level with DOMA.

It was not a change that came about by gay marriage proponents working the system. It came about despite anti-gay marriage groups doing everything they could to stop it via the system at every level.

#251 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:05 PM | Reply

lemme guess.....the honor flights are bad things too, right?

Dunno. Is Uncle Sam paying for them? If not, then I don't see the problem.

#252 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:07 PM | Reply

#251

welcome to America. you just saw how many (if not most) things worked out.

Slavery, the Constitution, the framework of our govt itself, all had to work through political opposition.

Unpopular ideas.......until they were.

#253 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:08 PM | Reply

#252

since when did you start giving a crap where the govt spends your $50 on?

#254 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:09 PM | Reply

Slavery was ended not only with a war, but with the Thirteenth Amendment.

What possible issue could we get 3/4 of the States to agree on today?
Just tell me.

#255 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:10 PM | Reply

since when did you start giving a crap where the govt spends your $50 on?

I don't want them spending it beating the war drums.

#256 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:11 PM | Reply

"What possible issue could we get 3/4 of the States to agree on today?"

what possible issue would we need that today?

#257 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:11 PM | Reply

need that for today

#258 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:12 PM | Reply

I ask for meaningful systemic improvement.

Eberly suggests Slavery, which ended via war.

I don't think you get what I'm talking about, Eberly.

#259 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:13 PM | Reply

#259

that makes 2 of us, boy.

why don't you find an issue where you believe we will never resolve through meaningful systemic improvement.......at least you might figure out what you really want.

#260 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:15 PM | Reply

what possible issue would we need that today?

Gay marriage would have been a good one.
But we're closer to 38 states wanting to ban it than declare it legal.

How about legal pot? That would do a lot of good for a lot of people by closing that front in the drug war. I'm pretty sure there's at least 13 red states and maybe even some blue that would never go for it, though.

#261 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:15 PM | Reply

When news of the DoD paying NFL teams for patriotic 'performances' first hit, I heard on sports radio that the DoD's money helps offset costs of those "surprise" military homecomings at stadiums. i retort, you decide

#262 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-09-21 11:16 PM | Reply

"What possible issue could we get 3/4 of the States to agree on today?"
A Constitutional Convention, if enough state legislatures are won by a major party.

#263 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-09-21 11:18 PM | Reply

But we're closer to 38 states wanting to ban it than declare it legal"

so?

#264 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:20 PM | Reply

Pot? Gay Marriage?

2 issues that we'll eventually see the improvement you're crying about right now.

we'll get them both through meaningful systemic improvement.

popular opinion has and will continue to shift and drive this issue.

#265 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

why don't you find an issue where you believe we will never resolve through meaningful systemic improvement

You already mentioned slavery, so it's cheating to use that again, right?
We see a meaningful systemic improvement to health care about once every fifty years, MAPD notwithstanding, so maybe never again in our lives.
We've tried so many things to improve education but can't deliver across-the-board improvements.
We will always be a two-party system, owing to a winner-take-all system, and neither the winner nor the runner up wants to risk not being #1 or #2 by allowing #3 and #4 into the race.

#266 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:23 PM | Reply

ot? Gay Marriage?
2 issues that we'll eventually see the improvement you're crying about right now.
we'll get them both through meaningful systemic improvement.

It's like you're not listening.
We already have gay marriage.
But it's in spite of the many attempts by anti-gay marriage to (in their minds) improve things through the meaningful systemic change of banning gay marriage via legislature or ballot.

#267 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:26 PM | Reply

Pot has a chance, for sure.
But gay marriage didn't happen because of grassroots support.
It happened because the Supreme Court read the Fourteenth Amendment and applied it to the bizarre subset of contract law called marriage.

#268 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:27 PM | Reply

"But it's in spite of the many attempts by anti-gay marriage to (in their minds) improve things through the meaningful systemic change of banning gay marriage via legislature or ballot."

It's like you're not listening.

there are and were always folks who were on the wrong side of an issue.....especially on important issues.

#269 | Posted by eberly at 2016-09-21 11:30 PM | Reply

Gay marriage was forced top-down on all the states by the Supreme Court.
Not because gay marriage advocates worked the system.

#270 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-21 11:35 PM | Reply

#266 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Then stop perpetuating it. If it has to start somewhere, it might as well be with Snoofy.

#271 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-22 12:04 AM | Reply

The rules of the game are what perpetuates the two-party system.
I'm in no position to change the rules.
Nobody is.

#272 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 12:07 AM | Reply

I only get nationalistic for international events.
Such as the Olympics or the Wold Cup, where our athletes are actually representing America.
I'm not quite clear on why I should feel patriotic for America when Miami plays Cleveland.

I've been to two baseball games at Yankee Stadium. The top of the stadium is ringed by all the team flags. As I stood looking up at the sky and at those flags, I felt moved as the national anthem was sung. The team flags don't represent all of the states, but they do represent many different cities/states across the nation. The idea that so many disparate states are a nation is what moved me. Listening to the anthem reminded me that we are bigger than one city, one state, one team. At that moment it wasn't about us vs them on an international level (although I get that too). It was about us as an us. Or us as US.

#273 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-22 12:09 AM | Reply

#272 I would have said Rube Media has the public brainwashed.

#274 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-22 12:10 AM | Reply

Wow...a double. #274 applies to #273 too!

#275 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-22 12:13 AM | Reply

Hip hip hurray for Sheeple! An original thinker and part of the solution!

A 7% solution?

No, no, not that kind of solution.

#276 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2016-09-22 12:30 AM | Reply

It's sad how much people take for granted how incredibly unique the founding of this country is within recorded human history.

While I agree with the wastefulness of spending money for the NFL to promote a general sense of patriotism, the amount of money spent pales in comparison with the 'advertising budget' for ACA. That Pajama Boy ad will forever live in infamy.

#277 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 01:22 AM | Reply

It's sad how much people take for granted how incredibly unique the founding of this country is within recorded human history.

I'm not sure who does that, but let's say they do: That's all in the past. What have you done for me lately?

#278 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 02:10 AM | Reply

That's all in the past. What have you done for me lately?

#278 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

That's a fair question and I am all about holding our government accountable.

To answer that question from a historical standpoint - this country has ushered in an unprecedented degree of freedom and liberty. The foundation is so strong that you incrementally reap the benefits without even realizing it.

#279 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 02:16 AM | Reply

The foundation is so strong that you incrementally reap the benefits without even realizing it.

The legacy of racism can likewise still be felt. But some don't even realize it.

#280 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 02:26 AM | Reply

The legacy of racism can likewise still be felt. But some don't even realize it.

#280 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Right.

No strides have been made over the past 5 decades. We didn't elect a black president either.

#281 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 02:32 AM | Reply

"No. it's a way of saying. There's no such thing as a real communist. Communism is only found in the pages of a book."

Actually, you idiot, there is such thing as communists. They killed just around 100 million people in the last century. Is this like a holocaust denial thing for you? Denying that communists killed about 400% more people than Nazis...because you like communism?

Stop being retarded.

"Islam is a religion. Your attempt to turn it into a political movement is absurd."

What's absurd is your attempt to paint it as something other than a political movement.

"If you're too stupid to be able to differentiate between regular people and militants. Then. I can't help you."

I got it, princess, not all Muslims are going to blow themselves up in the name of Jihad. Just like not all Nazis were going to throw Jews into ovens. But by the virtue of the fact that they are adherents of philosophies that advocate slavery and oppression, I'm still going hold the line that even the "good" ones are not so good.

#282 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 08:11 AM | Reply

"All Islamic terrorist are Islamic terrorist. All Muslims are not Islamic terrorist.

But all Muslims practice Islam, a political movement that elevates those who practice Islam above all others and provides them with the freedom to act without repercussion against those outside the faith. So maybe you're cool with a culture that's OK with honor killings, or rape, or forced marriage, or slavery, or killing non-Muslims. Maybe you don't have children. I do. And I don't want them to think that honor killings, or rape, or forced marriage, or slavery, or killing non-Muslims are acceptable practices.

#283 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 08:16 AM | Reply

"See what happens when you travel? You get perspective."

Perspective?

Your problems, to the last, are rich people problems.

backpacking across Europe doesn't provide you with perspective. It may provide you with the sense that you have perspective, but you're still just a rich westerner babbling on about problems most of the world would love to have.

#284 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 08:23 AM | Reply

"Not achieved through meaningful systemic improvement. But through the courts simply applying law. In fact, the system worked tooth and nail to ban it."

Actually, you know what's funny? At the end of the day, turns out no one really cares about homosexuality. A minority of retarded evangelicals had successfully promoted a myth where gays were a bunch of deviants who would harm society. Once people were able to come out, pretty much the whole of America, even those who had been against homosexuality, realized they had been hanging out with gay people for years. It was a minority of idiotic -------- who were leading the charge against homosexuality that allowed it to remain on the fringe for so many years.

It's not that different than the idiotic -------- who rail against polygamy, or income inequality, or private ownership of firearms, or any of the other progressive causes you support. Authoritarianism is always OK, provided that it's your authoritarianism.

#285 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 08:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's sad how much people take for granted how incredibly unique the founding of this country is within recorded human history."

What's sad is how quickly we're barreling towards mediocrity.

This country is shedding elements of an authoritarian past while adopting newer , more politically acceptable forms of authoritarianism.

#286 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 08:45 AM | Reply

this country has ushered in an unprecedented degree of freedom and liberty. The foundation is so strong that you incrementally reap the benefits without even realizing it.

#279 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 02:16 AM | Reply

Please don't include me as having the "I don't like Americans" sentiment that is being expressed in this thread.

But..... We are much less free today than we were 50 years ago and its getting worse over time. The most glaring example is the NSA and TSA. We allow ourselves to be spied on by a government that is supposed to work for us. We allow someone to take naked pictures of them every time we want to get on a plane. That's not so freedom-y.

But the more subtle change is that everything has been monetized, particularly our justice system. How much freedom you have in American today depends largely on your wallet.

#287 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 09:37 AM | Reply

#287 | POSTED BY SULLY

We are freer than at any time in the history of man.

That's not so freedom-y. - Sully

Flying is a privilege, the fact that you can go anywhere in the world in less than 24hrs to improve your life, is freedom.

wagon train immigrants would have died for that freedom, and literally did.

#288 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-22 09:53 AM | Reply

Flying is a privilege, the fact that you can go anywhere in the world in less than 24hrs to improve your life, is freedom.

wagon train immigrants would have died for that freedom, and literally did.

#288 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-22 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Its not a freedom. It is a means of transportation. One that we are not free to utilize without going through an inane, wasteful, mildly humiliating security process that largely doesn't work.

Rebranding everything as a 'privilege' is part of how the degradation of freedom is marketed.

#289 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 10:19 AM | Reply

Face it, Muslim culture and values - especially when it comes to their degrading and brutal treatment of women - is nothing like Western culture. Americans don't want Sharia law, so-called honor killings, or any of the other garbage associated with Islamic beliefs coming to our shores.

#290 | Posted by CalifChris at 2016-09-22 10:32 AM | Reply

Being able to travel and live where you want freely is the foundation of freedom, see Soviet union

One that we are not free to utilize without going through an inane, wasteful, mildly humiliating security process that largely doesn't work.

No you can drive a car or get your own plane and pilot liscense.

Rebranding everything as a 'privilege' is part of how the degradation of freedom is marketed.

Disagree, privilege is the ability to do something you could do, with much more governmental control, but much more convience. See above...

#291 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2016-09-22 10:38 AM | Reply

"is nothing like Western culture"

There is no 'western culture', you dimwit.

#292 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 11:11 AM | Reply

There is no 'western culture', you dimwit.

#292 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 11:11 AM | Reply

You know perfectly well what I meant.

#293 | Posted by CalifChris at 2016-09-22 12:01 PM | Reply

#293-- Enlighten me.

#294 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:07 PM | Reply

muslims are just the flavor of the day for conservatives who need enemies to blame for their problems that were caused by the people they voted for and continue to vote for.

#295 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2016-09-22 12:13 PM | Reply

Anyway, "western culture" is ideological fiction. Or, if you want to take it seriously, it is a rape culture.

#296 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:15 PM | Reply

There is no 'western culture', you dimwit.

#292 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

LOL.. Oh OK because you say so.

#297 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 12:20 PM | Reply

Western culture, sometimes equated with Western civilization, Western world, Western society or European civilization is a term used very broadly to refer to a heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies that have some origin or association with Europe. The term is applied to European countries and countries whose history is strongly marked by European immigration, colonisation, and influence, such as the continents of the Americas and Australasia, whose current demographic majority is of European ethnicity, and is not restricted to the continent of Europe.

en.wikipedia.org

Someone flunked World History 101.

#298 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 12:22 PM | Reply

@pumpkin, you've travelled some so how could you not realize readily apparent differences between Western and Eastern cultures? Western civilization being observable in US, Canada, Aus, Western Europe, and Eastern civilization seen in locales such as Indonesia, Malaysia, China, Japan.

These differences are more than ideological constructs but actual differences due to history and human geographical landscapes. IMO

#300 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2016-09-22 12:34 PM | Reply

On second thought, before shoving those Wikipedia entries where the sun don't shine, you should always take a gander at the talk section of said entries:

en.wikipedia.org

"@pumpkin, you've travelled some so how could you not realize readily apparent differences between Western and Eastern cultures?"
"These differences are more than ideological constructs"

Then they aren't cultural. Culture is ideological fiction-- a construct that often is used to mask inherent racism and ethnocentrism of a certain people.

#301 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:40 PM | Reply

#299 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is a commonly accepted term and you can use it almost anywhere and people will know what you're talking about.

Flailing your arms and screeching that it isn't so is less convincing that you think it is.

Go peddle your faux intellectual nonsense to someone else.

#302 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 12:42 PM | Reply

Go peddle your faux intellectual nonsense to someone else."

Sully, I don't recall anyone forcing you to poke your nose into my reply to CalifChris, so if you don't like it, make like the wind and and blow.

#303 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:46 PM | Reply

Anyway, 'western culture' once embraced the superiority of race and slavery of inferior races. It took the amalgamation of non-western identity and culture to help put an end to those those "commonly accepted" beliefs.

#304 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:49 PM | Reply

So, "western culture" is nothing more than the continued amalgamation and assimilation of a vast array of global identity constructs-- one in which Muslims will, in the future, have an increasingly influential role.

#305 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:52 PM | Reply

Sorry this "faux intellectual nonsense" goes so far over your heads, boys.

#306 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:52 PM | Reply

Sully, I don't recall anyone forcing you to poke your nose into my reply to CalifChris, so if you don't like it, make like the wind and and blow.

#303 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

You posted on a public forum, Einstein. I don't see that anyone ask you to interject with your factually incorrect commentary either, hypcocrite.

Also, linking to an entire discussion on something you are trying to pretend doesn't exist wasn't the best move in #301.

#307 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 12:56 PM | Reply

The legacy of racism can likewise still be felt. But some don't even realize it.
#280 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Right.
No strides have been made over the past 5 decades. We didn't elect a black president either.
#281 | Posted by JeffJ

I said nothing even approaching that.
You have to take the good with the bad.
If the good of America has stuck with us all thesis years, then so hss the bad.
And the bad has probably lingered more with the people it was applied to, just as the good has continued to heap its rewards on those who got the good end of the deal.

Why you bristle at seeing both sides of the same coin cannot be explained rationally.

#308 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 01:00 PM | Reply

Apparently, Sully, you took my advice, but you shoved those entries too far up your ass.

I can wait until you've calmed down enough to let CalifChris, who, in my opinion, hides his intolerance beneath a broadcloth mantle of "culture", to reply to my assertion. But not too long.

#311 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 01:19 PM | Reply

#311 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2016-09-22 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why would anyone still need to reply to your blabberings after I conclusively proved you wrong?

#312 | Posted by Sully at 2016-09-22 01:22 PM | Reply

-Then they aren't cultural. Culture is ideological fiction--

Posted by the aptly named "Pumpkin Head."

Your weapons-grade ignorance of world history and world culture is appalling. You must be a millenial.

#313 | Posted by nullifidian at 2016-09-22 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Authoritarianism is always OK, provided that it's your authoritarianism.
#285 | Posted by madbomber

Do you think you're saying something meaningful here?
You swore to uphold and defend the Constitutions.
Uncle Sam is your agent of authoritarianism.
Is that okay for you?

#314 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 01:29 PM | Reply

It was a minority of idiotic -------- who were leading the charge against homosexuality that allowed it to remain on the fringe for so many years

So then... why are you troubled that the Supreme Court used their authority to override the idiots?

You think a minority of -------- should decide things for the rest of us, if the alternative is using authority to let the common sense majority enact their plans?

#315 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 01:34 PM | Reply

I traveled all over China and found the difference among various people groups to be quite vast in terms of food, work, clothing, music, art, types of dwellings, etc...we called it 'culture' because it seemed isolated to certain villages, provinces, or whole regions.

So that's racist?

#316 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2016-09-22 01:34 PM | Reply

Your problems, to the last, are rich people problems.

Why shouldn't they be? You like to remind us all we are global 1%. Isn't it fitting that my problems should rise to my station in life?

#317 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 01:35 PM | Reply

Anyway, "western culture" is ideological fiction.

Looks like someone has read a little bit of Mannheim without understanding the true nature of his Paradox.

You like to remind us all we are global 1%. Isn't it fitting that my problems should rise to my station in life?

That's funny coming from you, given that you have argued vehemently, albeit unsuccessfully, against this very premise on other threads.

#318 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2016-09-22 01:57 PM | Reply

I've never argued I'm not global 1%, I've pointed out that since I live in the world of the global 1% it just makes me average.

#319 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 02:02 PM | Reply

If you can't fathom that, then you should tell me where you went to high school since you have nothing to hide and I'll write the principal a scathing letter about how bad their school is.

#320 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 02:03 PM | Reply

"You think a minority of -------- should decide things for the rest of us, if the alternative is using authority to let the common sense majority enact their plans?"

I don't think anyone-minority, majority, conservative, progressive, whatever, should be deciding things for us. We should be doing that on our own.

...and that's the big difference between you and me. I want you to be free to make your own decisions, be they good or bad, and benefit or suffer from them accordingly. In a state with limited government, you can practice socialism, or communism, or Islamism, or whatever. No one's going to stop you. but what you won't be able to do is force others to practice these ideologies against their will.

"Why shouldn't they be? You like to remind us all we are global 1%. Isn't it fitting that my problems should rise to my station in life?"

It's only important that your problems aren't real problems. They're akin to a Kardashian not being able to get a table at her favorite restaurant. I'm sure it's terribly traumatic to someone who has grown up awash with wealth and privilege, but it's not a "real" problem.

#321 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 05:08 PM | Reply

"Uncle Sam is your agent of authoritarianism."

Actually it's the constitution. Although I'm not sure I would characterize it as authoritarian...

#322 | Posted by madbomber at 2016-09-22 05:09 PM | Reply

No. Authority is not paper. Its a man with a gun upholding and defending what's on paper. It's you.

#323 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 05:16 PM | Reply

...and that's the big difference between you and me. I want you to be free to make your own decisions,

In that case there's no difference between us. We both think the gays should be free to marry.

The difference, it would seem, is the acknowledgement of the necessary role top down authority played in extending that freedom.

#324 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 05:19 PM | Reply

It's only important that your problems aren't real problems.

How's that? If I get cancer it's not a real problem? If I can't find work it's not a real problem?

#325 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 05:24 PM | Reply

I said nothing even approaching that.
You have to take the good with the bad.
If the good of America has stuck with us all thesis years, then so hss the bad.
And the bad has probably lingered more with the people it was applied to, just as the good has continued to heap its rewards on those who got the good end of the deal.
Why you bristle at seeing both sides of the same coin cannot be explained rationally.

#308 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You've got to be trolling with this.

You just said exactly what I've been saying - there is good and bad. I pointed out you were so fixated on the bad that you failed to see the good. Now you are accusing me of the opposite in spite of the fact that I've acknowledged the bad several times on this thread.

If you are going to troll, you need to be more subtle.

#326 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 08:56 PM | Reply

You've changed your tune since #281.

#327 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 08:59 PM | Reply

You've changed your tune since #281.

#327 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

????

Maybe the excessive italics in #326 had a strange effect on you.

#328 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 09:02 PM | Reply

Maybe you were being snarky in #281 and you're not now.

#329 | Posted by snoofy at 2016-09-22 09:06 PM | Reply

#281 was snarky.

Given #304 it appears as if we are actually in agreement.

#330 | Posted by JeffJ at 2016-09-22 09:15 PM | Reply

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