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Thursday, September 04, 2014

A 43-year-old dad driving to pick up his kids after the first day of school was shot dead by another driver after a road rage incident. The wife of Derek Flemming said that another driver nearly hit their SUV, cut them off and then slammed on his brakes in front of them. When Flemming got out at a stop light and approached the car of Martin Edward Zale, the 69-year-old man rolled down his window and shot Flemming to death. Police later said that Zale has a concealed handgun license.

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Do not ever get out of your car to tell a fellow driver that they are being a jerk as that may cause a threatening feeling and get you shot dead. Another gun SYG story brought to you from SE Michigan.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

I had one reaction then read the article.

So far no where has SYG been mentioned, and it shouldn't.

If it does come into play then I'll have a comment.

#1 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-09-04 12:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

A study by Texas A&M found that the adoption of stand-your-ground laws caused a statistically significant increase in the raw homicide rate.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, found a significant increase in homicide and injury of whites, especially white males. which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.

#2 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-09-04 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 Citation please

#3 | Posted by homerj at 2014-09-04 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

A man managed to behead himself in a spectacularly gruesome suicide in the Bronx Monday.

Tomas Rivera, 51, of upstate Port Jervis, tied a chain from his head to a pole, then hit the gas on his 2005 Honda CRV in Hunts Point, cops said.

He gunned it at 9:35 a.m., slamming into a parked vehicle on Longfellow Ave. near Randall Ave., police said. He was decapitated and died at the scene.

#4 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-09-04 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Police Kill Woman, Charge Man They Were Trying To Shoot With Murder. Police responded to Vixen Bar in Orlando, Florida, on Aug. 19 after a 911 caller told them a "gun wielding maniac" was in the establishment, the Orlando Sentinel reports.

Kody Roach, 23, ignored officers' commands to get on the ground, according to a police report obtained by the Sentinel. Officers attempted to use a Tazer on Roach, but it was ineffective because of his baggy clothes, the report said. Roach then allegedly reached into his waistband, promoting police to fire, according to the report.
"In order to prevent an armed individual from causing harm to any members of the public or to any of the surrounding officers, Ofc. Sanguino discharges his firearm nine times striking Roach at least five times," the report said.

Police said Roach had an unloaded handgun when he was fired upon. He was taken to a hospital and survived his injuries. Amid the exchange of gunfire, one of the bullets fired by Orlando police officer Eduardo Sanguino hit and killed 22-year-old Fernanda Godinez.

#5 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-09-04 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Life is a beach or bitch. Choose one.

#6 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-09-04 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is what having so many guns and such a powerful NRA does to society.

You can't even confront someone who deserves confronting anymore, because they could be armed and it would be the last thing you ever do.

I saw way more fist fights in canada the months I was up there than I ever see in the USA. Because up there, you're not terrified of getting killed when you confront a drunken idiot. You just punch each other and go home. In the NRA's america, someone gets killed.

The NRA's answer of course, is the victim should have been armed too. Sure, because an armed man approaching another armed man after a near accident is going to be a peaceful encounter...

#7 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-09-04 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I saw way more fist fights in canada the months I was up there than I ever see in the USA. Because up there, you're not terrified of getting killed when you confront a drunken idiot.

#4 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2014-09-04 02:29 PM | FLAG:

Here's a video of a guy being killed with 1 punch, over an argument about bicycles on sidewalks.

#8 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-09-04 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4

So you are saying that more guns equals less assaults?

Well that is true.

#9 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-09-04 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

But before the anti-gun nuts go crazy on this. I would like to take this chance to remind them that there are well over 11 million ccw holders in this country. when a crime happened like this involving one it makes national news. What this showcases is how much lees CCW holder commit these types of crimes then the general population.

Ok, go ahead talk about your fantasy boogymen and fears.

#10 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-09-04 02:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Well SITZ let me point out the obvious since you are making stupid comparisons. I am willing to wager that moe people die from a single bullet to the face that from a single fist to the face.

#11 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-09-04 02:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#1 | Posted by nutcase

Why would anyone ever choose such a horrible and gruesome way to die? Makes me think he probably did it on purpose so his suicide would inflict as much pain as it possibly could on some particular person(s) he was leaving behind.

#12 | Posted by CalifChris at 2014-09-04 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

So you are saying that more guns equals less assaults?

Well that is true.

#6 | Posted by salamandagator

More guns = more nonlethal enounters, but far more lethal ones.

Plus it creates a society where you can't stand up for yourself unless you're armed.

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-09-04 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

*correction -
more guns = FEWER nonlethal enounters, but far MORE lethal ones.

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-09-04 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

So far not much has come into play - no charges, names, etc....just a guy shot dead in front of his wife....This county does have a weird history of corruption though so I would not be suprised that suprises come out of this story.

#15 | Posted by mutant at 2014-09-04 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Anyone, who would get out of the car over a near accident is a fool. Matter of fact you are a fool if you even flip people off over road rage. Just let it go.

#16 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Anyone, who would get out of the car over a near accident is a fool.

I wouldn't mess with a road rager for any reason, particularly in a gun-crazy state like Florida.

But this shouldn't be a country where getting out of your car and walking up to another car gets you shot dead.

Don't blame the victim because the shooter is a raging nut who had no business carrying a gun.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2014-09-04 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Example this morning I was on my way to work when this guy was tailgating me even though I was going 10mph over the speed limit. When he went around me on the two lane road he quickly cut right in front of me as if to prove a point for some dumb reason. My first thought is the guy is obviously nut b/c no one in their right mind would risk having a wreck at 55mph for no reason. As fate would have it we pulled up to the next red light right next to each other. I didn't even look over.

#18 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh don't get me wrong Rcade. I'm not blaming the victim. I'm just saying that the world including the US is full of nuts and when people are acting irrationally over such minor issues you have to have the common sense to just let it go. Did the victim think he was going to change the fact that the shooter is obviously nuts b/c he confronted him?

#19 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's because of the Mad Max remake, no doubt.

#20 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-09-04 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Plus it creates a society where you can't stand up for yourself unless you're armed."

That's not guns that do that it is the fear mongers. See the McBride thread for that. You can't stand up you are just supposed to cower and wait for someone else to do it for you.

#21 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-09-04 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

As fate would have it we pulled up to the next red light right next to each other. I didn't even look over.

I deal with road ragers the same way. I never give them a look or react in any other way.

When I was in my early 20s and out in the workforce, commuting two hours a day in DFW, I used to flip people off and yell at them when they drove like idiots. Another guy in a dress shirt and tie saw me gesture in his rear view mirror. On a 40 mph road, he slammed on the brakes, opened his door and gestured at me to get out and fight. Traffic was flying around us and he wanted to get into a fistfight right in the road.

Though he wasn't a large dude, I didn't think that was a great idea. I held up my hand in a "whoa there, buddy" gesture, he gave me a "yeah, I thought so," and that was that.

We both looked like morons, so I decided right then to permanently retired from road rage.

A few years later my brother was shot at by a road rager, and the bullet passed through the cab of his truck under a foot from where he was sitting. Texans are nuts on the road.

#22 | Posted by rcade at 2014-09-04 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Well SITZ let me point out the obvious since you are making stupid comparisons. I am willing to wager that moe people die from a single bullet to the face that from a single fist to the face.

#11 | POSTED BY RIGHTISTRITE AT 2014-09-04 02:53 PM | FLAG:

You're missing the point. If you get into a fight, you might die. Assuming otherwise is stupid. Your statement is one that's sickly okay with violent resolution to conflict, as long as people die less.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-09-04 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wouldn't mess with a road rager for any reason, particularly in a gun-crazy state like Florida.

But this shouldn't be a country where getting out of your car and walking up to another car gets you shot dead.

----

In Russia, it gets you beaten up by Spongebob and others.

www.youtube.com

#24 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-09-04 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rcade, you could have pulled a Nolan Ryan and let the guy "charge the mound" and then whip is ass. Then get back in the car and drive off like nothing ever happened.

#25 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

The old guy was wrong to kill the dad - but the dad died not from a gunshot but from terminal stupidity. This is 'Merica! You simply don't walk up to a rager's (and, obviously, a crazy person's) car. Gad. I have a Texas CHL and I would never, ever stop and confront another driver, even armed.

#26 | Posted by larry609 at 2014-09-04 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

The shooter has a concealed handgun license, police have revealed.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2014-09-04 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rcade, you could have pulled a Nolan Ryan and let the guy "charge the mound" and then whip is ass.

I don't like my chances. I got in a fight with my childhood sweetheart's secret other boyfriend once at Waltham College near Boston. As I was raining down punches on him, I realized that none of them were hurting him at all. To him it was probably like being assaulted by Mr. Burns.

#28 | Posted by rcade at 2014-09-04 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#28 I was joking. I would have done the same thing in that situation. Including locking my doors. When you said that he got out in the middle of the road and challenged you it made me think of the guy charging Nolan Ryan in front of thousands of people and getting his ass kicked. Nolan Ryan acted like it was nothing.

#29 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't think you were serious.

That Nolan Ryan brawl is worth rewatching. I think he'd like to do that today to Rangers GM Jon Daniels.

#30 | Posted by rcade at 2014-09-04 04:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

A guy I actually know in Louisville was charged recently with shooting another man to death in a road-rage incident. He runs a hot dog stand downtown and is out on bond pending trial.
www.wdrb.com

I didn't know him well, but I bought many a hot dog from him when I worked downtown, and we exchanged pleasantries often. He was always friendly and upbeat, and his customers love him. Now his life is ruined and he's probably going to prison.

For all of you gun owners, think about this. You lose your cool for one minute, and that gun you bought for protection has just ruined your life.

#31 | Posted by cbob at 2014-09-04 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

He probably already has.

#32 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-09-04 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#24 | POSTED BY PIRATE

I've seen some wild stuff from those russian dashcam vid's but that had to be the most amusing one I've seen.

#33 | Posted by Lohocla at 2014-09-04 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why did he get out of the car?

#34 | Posted by Tor at 2014-09-04 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

America obviously needs disarmed so that greedy Wall Street oligarchs and their private security squads who own government will then have free reign to step on and squash all the sheep if they so choose.

The left absurdly thinks blindly about what their puppeteer owners want, and not what makes America independent and has so far curtailed an absolute takeover by the moneyed elites.

#35 | Posted by Robson at 2014-09-04 08:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why did he get out of the car?

#34 | Posted by Tor

I agree if involved in such a road rage confrontation, getting out of the car only escalates it and makes you much more vulnerable. You do not have a clue what potential harm lurks unseen. We humans sometimes get set off by odd coincidences and circumstances. It is best to work to avoid them than get involved, although egos do get in the way.

#36 | Posted by Robson at 2014-09-04 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

35...I think this situation is far from a gun rights issue....more like an " automobile weapons of mass destruction" issue. no fear - criminals and rebels will always find their weapons of choice.

#37 | Posted by mutant at 2014-09-04 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"When Flemming got out at a stop light and approached the car of Martin Edward Zale"

Never get out of your car. Call the police, they will handle it.

#38 | Posted by 726 at 2014-09-05 07:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why did he get out of the car?

#34 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-09-04 07:08 PM | FLAG:

He was a hot head. Now he is dead.

He was gonna teach that guy a lesson.

#39 | Posted by 726 at 2014-09-05 07:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Texans are nuts on the road.

#22 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-09-04 03:31 PM | FLAG:

Sometimes. 20+ years of TX driving and I've never seen a road rage incident in person. There's definitely a lack of aggressive driving in other states. Florida and Missouri in particular seem to move very slowly.

We did get promised that the freeways would have shootouts frequently ("the wild west", hollywood's version) once CHL laws were passed, and the same promise when Castle Doctrine was extended to vehicles allowing citizens to have a gun in their car. That hasn't quite panned out for the people making the daily shootout claims.

#40 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-09-05 08:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Our minds are being molded by political interests and agendas such as the consolidated corporate media and the owners of both Parties. It is essentially about class warfare. Most are the targets and the few are the beneficiaries.

Americans of all persuasions need a double dose of reality and skepticism instead of blindly believing the self interest propaganda of the oligarchs that run DC, Wall Street and the media, and what politicians (D/R) tell us. If there is any hope for our continued freedom of the masses, we need to become educated critical thinkers instead of serfs that blindly follow politics leading to the next handout.

#41 | Posted by Robson at 2014-09-05 06:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

The key is to be involved, think smart and think self defense and protection only.....not offense or emotion. Never get involved unless you are personally threatened.

The political and financial elites that have their own professional armed body guards and with fully automatic rifles do not care about your protection. You are an average schmuck. You having protection is something they consider a threat.

They don't care about frivolous issues of over reaction because they will skate away without prosecution regardless if they are guilty. They are cronies of the powerful with many lawyers in their pocketbook. Wake up America and demand equality.

#42 | Posted by Robson at 2014-09-05 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"As fate would have it we pulled up to the next red light right next to each other. I didn't even look over."

I deal with road ragers the same way. I never give them a look or react in any other way.

When road ragers attach themselves seems to you it seems that breaking traffic laws is a smart thing to do as you might get some cops attention. The best thing you could do is get a cops attention at that point. The one time I was badly threatened by a road rager I headed for the nearest donut shop. The road rager pealed off and sped away as there were 3 cop cars sitting in the parking lot.

#43 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-09-05 06:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Being assaulted by Mr.Burns. Lol. Rcade that was funny!

#44 | Posted by The_U at 2014-09-06 04:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

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