Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, August 20, 2014

The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) claims to have beheaded an American photojournalist and has threatened the life of another American journalist if President Barack Obama doesn't stop airstrikes in Iraq. A graphic video obtained by NBC News purportedly shows James Wright Foley, a freelance reporter for the U.S.-based news service GlobalPost who was kidnapped while reporting from Syria two years ago, reciting threats against America before he is executed by an ISIS militant. Foley's family released a statement: "We have never been prouder of our son and brother Jim. He gave his life trying to expose the world to the suffering of the Syrian people. We implore the kidnappers to spare the lives of the remaining hostages. Like Jim, they are innocents. They have no control over American government policy in Iraq, Syria or anywhere in the world."

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I guess we should wait for more conformation..but according to such experts like rob riener who said the tea party was like these people..I guess we're gonna have to go find a reporter...

so what's next ?

draw a line..
keep up the bombing
stop the bombing
more advisors

#1 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 06:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

so what's next ?

draw a line..
keep up the bombing
stop the bombing
more advisors
ask Afkbabble for advice

#2 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think we should wait till they start doing it on US soil before we do anything.

#3 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-08-19 08:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's too bad the US has to defend that billion dollar boondoggle embassy in Baghdad or they could just walk away and watch from a distance.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-19 08:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

W's legacy lives on.

Another American dies from his stupidity.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2014-08-20 08:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

#5

Bush beheaded this journalist?

#6 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

The animal who did the beheading claimed it was in retaliation for the recent airstrikes which were apparently ordered by George W. Bush, according to Wallback.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

TheIslamicState doesn't fight by Western rules. It is absurd for us to feel they need too, or will.

They will be as brutal as needed in order to win.

Something the West has never seen before.

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-20 10:11 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

W's legacy lives on.
Another American dies from his stupidity.

#5 | POSTED BY 726 AT 2014-08-20 08:21 AM | FLAG:

The guy was kidnapped in Syria 2 years ago. While the Obama administration was helping fuel that conflict Bush was off painting.

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-20 10:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, clearly the answer to keeping them from doing something on our shores is demilitarizing our police.

-Liberal Waifs

#10 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-08-20 10:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bush beheaded this journalist?

#6 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Would there be an Islamic State of IRAQ if the US had not completely destabilized Iraq?

Of course this is part of Bush's legacy.

Bush decided to take actions that would obviously have long lasting effects for years and years to come. I don't get this notion that it is somehow unfair to acknowledge those effects just because he's not in office anymore. If Iraq had become the shining beacon of democracy as imagined by delusional neocons, Bush supporters would be crediting him for decades to come. He wanted to do grand things that have long lasting effects and we're still seeing the fallout from that misguided ambition.

There is nothing unfair about acknowledging the fact that Bush turned Iraq into what it is.

#11 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-20 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Well, clearly the answer to keeping them from doing something on our shores is demilitarizing our police."

You're too scared to be a decent American. Go move to some authoritarian craphole where people don't have rights. We don't need you advocating for taking away ours.

#12 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-20 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

Something the West has never seen before.

#8 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-08-20 10:11 AM | FLAG:

IS doesn't know what brutality is. They've chopped some heads off, tried to do a little genocide and were fought off by Syrian Kurds.

We've used concentration camps in many wars. Hell we used them on our own civilians (can't trust those slanty eyes!) We waged an extensive chemical warfare campaign in Asia. We've burned to death 25,000 civilians in their own homes, during just 1 bombing raid. We've destroyed 77% of a city and killed 140,000 with 1 bomb, and we've got a fleet of submarines, hundreds of aircraft, and silo based missiles ready to make most of the world uninhabitable at a moment's notice. We capture our enemies, sometimes torture them for information or have our "allies" torture them for us, then lock them away forever in a prison while administering them daily force feedings.

We are capable of incredible brutality, always have been, always will be.

#13 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-20 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | POSTED BY SULLY

Fair enough.

However, I will point out that Iraq was relatively stable when Bush left office.

When the troops were pulled out is when Iraq descended into chaos.

Having said that, we couldn't keep troops there forever and it's very possible that had we kept troops there for 3 years longer after those 3 years Iraq would be in the exact same position it's in now.

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

"They will be as brutal as needed in order to win. "

Just as we have been. It doesn't get much more brutal than a drone with a stinger missile. The difference is they will brutally kill one person at a time, in person while we kill dozens at a time from far away.

#15 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-20 10:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

We are capable of incredible brutality, always have been, always will be.

#13 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

but, but....we're doing it for the churl-rens. freedom ain't free and stuff.

#16 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-20 10:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

However, I will point out that Iraq was relatively stable when Bush left office.
Paying the sunnis and the shiites to not kill each other is such a "winning" strategy

When the troops were pulled out is when Iraq descended into chaos.

How long did you want to stay??? forever??

Having said that, we couldn't keep troops there forever and it's very possible that had we kept troops there for 3 years longer after those 3 years Iraq would be in the exact same position it's in now.

So why blame Obama for Iraq at all??

Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 10:50 AM | Reply

#17 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-20 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

It doesn't get much more brutal than a drone with a stinger missile.

#15 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2014-08-20 10:51 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

wrong missiles. stingers are what we gave to the afghani mujahideen to shoot down helicopters to "ensure their religious freedom". hellfires are what you're looking for. They're designed to blow up thickly armored tanks but are mostly shot at people nowadays. Only $110,000 per shot too.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-20 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-20 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm more of the mind that violence following our withdrawal was inevitable but other than that we mostly agree.

#19 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-20 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

I just hope Obama supporters remember these converstations when Libya is still a chaotic mess after Obama leaves office.

#20 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-20 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

I just hope isolationists remember that 10's of thousands threatened with genocide were helped by a few US air strikes and guess what?

The world didn't end.

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-20 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

It doesn't get much more brutal than a drone with a stinger missile.
#15 | POSTED BY DANNI

Your error not withstanding....

Watch a video of a missile hitting a target, then watch the uncut version of the beheading, watch him bleed out.

#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-20 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Honestly, they are savages. It doesn't make it better or worse that they are savages waving the Islamic banner. They beheaded an unarmed civilian who was in the part of the world doing a noble task that benefits pretty much everyone.

#23 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-20 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Many different methods of execution end with an actual execution.

Is it the method or the actual execution which is the worse crime? Is it the method or the execution that determines the brutality of the one doing the act?

Or doesn't it really matter? Some methods are more shocking than others. As such, they are better suited for propaganda both for and against the ones performing the executions.

Yes, I am a devout Christian, but I can remember thinking, a while ago, perhaps almost 40 years now, in my time of spiritual confusion, that Jesus Christ, our savior, was executed in brutal slow fashion-- crucifixion. Would it be the same, or would it make the same impression to those who cricified him, or to those he was crucified for, if he was simply stabbed in the back, in the middle of the night, while he slept peacefully in his bed?

#24 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-20 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Did a British Jihadist Behead Journalist James Foley in Syria?

www.nbcnews.com

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-20 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Watch a video of a missile hitting a target, then watch the uncut version of the beheading, watch him bleed out.
#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Can the missile's target be a desalination plant, resulting in hundreds of children dying from cholera?

That would be more humane than sawing off one adult's head?

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-20 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Another American hostage threatened with death

www.cbsnews.com

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-20 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Salaam my brothers, so long as you are from our sect, not female or western or educated or a smoker, in which case we will murder you and your whole family and then violate your remains.
--Muslim recruiting poster, ISIS division

#28 | Posted by catdog at 2014-08-20 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brutality for the sake of brutality is not what wins wars. Our problem isn't that we don't behead enough people with hunting knives. Its not an effective way of killing or even deterring an enemy. ISIS killing that man in the way they did isn't going to accomplish anything as far as changing our policies.

The reason why we "lose" wars lately is that we define the conditions for victory in such a way that victory is beyond our control. There is nothing our military could have done to make Iraqis or Afghanis or Vietnamese turn into junior Americans who would embrace the government we were pushing on them. Those missions failed because the morons in charge tried to use the military in nation building, which is not its purpose. The minute you define our goals in such a way that victory is dependent on the actions of civilians whose country we are occupying, you've failed. These wars turned out badly because that is the only way they could have turned out.

In any war that involves just killing the enemy so that they can no longer pose a threat to us, we are more than willing to do what it takes to wipe the floor with ISIS or any other pissant from the Middle East. We're perfectly willing to level cities if necessary.

We don't need to turn into two bit torturers to win fights.

#29 | Posted by sully at 2014-08-20 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Watch a video of a missile hitting a target, then watch the uncut version of the beheading, watch him bleed out."

I will pass on both.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-20 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Your error not withstanding....
Watch a video of a missile hitting a target, then watch the uncut version of the beheading, watch him bleed out."

If they don't stop the beheadings we need to go back to putting panties on the heads of any captives. That'll fix 'em! Not only that, but as a bonus it'll cause danni and her little DR friends to have apoplexy for our brutality since beheading of Americans doesn't seem to bother them nearly as much. We should immediately close the soccer fields in Guantanamo too. That'll surely cause a DR uproar on a scale of Ferguson. Ahhhh, our little friends never cease to sicken me.....

#31 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-20 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Those missions failed because the morons in charge tried to use the military in nation building, which is not its purpose. The minute you define our goals in such a way that victory is dependent on the actions of civilians whose country we are occupying, you've failed. These wars turned out badly because that is the only way they could have turned out."

You're right, Sully, and that's true with the current situation as well. We just never seem to learn. The purpose of the military to kill people, break all their stuff and remove any will to keep fighting. It seemed to work pretty well until we got into kinder, gentler warfare and ridiculous Rules of Engagement. I think Israel might finally be seeing the light but the chances that we'll see it soon are slim to none.

#32 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-20 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Those missions failed because the morons in charge tried to use the military in nation building, which is not its purpose. The minute you define our goals in such a way that victory is dependent on the actions of civilians whose country we are occupying, you've failed. These wars turned out badly because that is the only way they could have turned out."

You're right, Sully, and that's true with the current situation as well. We just never seem to learn. The purpose of the military to kill people, break all their stuff and remove any will to keep fighting. It seemed to work pretty well until we got into kinder, gentler warfare and ridiculous Rules of Engagement. I think Israel might finally be seeing the light but the chances that we'll see it soon are slim to none.

#33 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-20 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

" That'll fix 'em! Not only that, but as a bonus it'll cause danni and her little DR friends to have apoplexy for our brutality since beheading of Americans doesn't seem to bother them nearly as much."

Yeah, we should probably become just as inhuman as our enemies. Brilliant.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-20 12:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Yeah, we should probably become just as inhuman as our enemies."

Hey, danni...we are NOT being "inhuman" by putting panties on their heads, we're just bombing the heavy artillery, tanks and such they're using to kill unarmed refugees, women and children. I know how much you prefer the humane methods of ISIS, Boko Haram, Hamas and the like, but c'mon, give our OWN troops a break once in a while.

#35 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-20 12:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Watch a video of a missile hitting a target, then watch the uncut version of the beheading, watch him bleed out.

#22 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-08-20 11:21 AM | FLAG: STUPID

Wrong. The ones standing in direct proximity (say 50 feet circle around) to the beheading are doing the happy dance singing "allis fubar" patting themselves on the back, feeling victorious and stuff.

The ones standing nearby in a drone strike are crawling about on shattered limbs and using their one remaining eye to search for their missing body parts scattered among the clumps of sizzling human flesh lying about. If they hear anything it is a loud ringing in their ears or the wails of friends and relatives bleeding out.

Just because you aren't shown the videos in the immediate aftermath of drone slaughter doesn't mean it lacks brutality.

Either way dead is dead and far worse for the living than the deceased.

The death of James Foley is tragic and thankfully his friends, family members were not present for the event causing the ripple effect of the tragedy as the loss and suffering is magnified by those left behind.

Not so good for those hanging out with a drone's target on what is supposed to be the happiest day of their lives. Not not only do they lose a loved one but also must stay on living in a maimed body or caring for those who were injured and may ultimately die months or years later from the injuries suffered.

Its the ol "hammer to a beehive" thing. You may take out a queen but you've pissed off a whole lot of... drones.... kind of ironic no?

Of course they will be a brutal as they need to be in order to defend their homeland. Would you not do the same?

The US has mauled its own citizens for less.

If anything the beheading is far more surgical, precise and less brutal than the precision bombing campaigns we've launched at an average cost of $750k a piece (for the cheap ones) +$30k per flight hour+maintenance+training. A good knife for lopping a head $15 at a military surplus store + (the promise of)70 virgins (yeah right) and you get a home movie to show your friends. Priceless.

Amazing what angry people can do with box cutters and knives.

#36 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-08-20 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

You need to wonder if this isn't a brand new attempt at creating new American fear now that Al Queada and OBL are stale and gone, so that the last remaining vestiges of freedom and our treasury can disappear without any opposition. New names, same storyline.

The WOT created trillions of debt and transferred trillion of profits to a few plutocrats and oligarchs.

You only think you know and it is based upon the misinformation that the oligarch owned and controlled media tells you.

#37 | Posted by Robson at 2014-08-20 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

If anything the beheading is far more surgical, precise and less brutal than the precision bombing campaigns we've launched at an average cost of $750k a piece (for the cheap ones) +$30k per flight hour+maintenance+training. A good knife for lopping a head $15 at a military surplus store + (the promise of)70 virgins (yeah right) and you get a home movie to show your friends. Priceless.

And apparently more effective in terms of getting a message across. The U.S. bombs and kills hundreds, thousands of anti-Amrican militants, to which their neighbors join up the fight in retaliation. They behead a second journalist and the entire U.S. public jumps in outrage - questioning U.S. foreign policy altogether.

ISIL and other extremists have the pulse of the American people. The U.S. government doesn't have a clue what the Iraqi people want. One reason we know this for a fact is the complete lack of Arabic speaking translators used by U.S. forces in Iraq throughout the past decade.

Truly despicable.

#38 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It seemed to work pretty well until we got into kinder, gentler warfare and ridiculous Rules of Engagement."

The rules are put into place because we're going to war for reasons that aren't legitimate. If a foreign nation is an enemy that poses a threat to us and we are trying to destroy that threat, we don't care if we do things that tick off their civilians. If they are using a mosque to store weapons then we blow the mosque up. Who cares if they don't like it. They're not supposed to like it.

The touchy feely crap becomes necessary when we go to war for invalid reasons. Like say we invade a country because we want US businesses to have a presence there afterwards. Well then we can't just destory their military, we have to make sure the government we leave behind will play ball. And that government won't last unless the civilians buy into it. So we have to worry about hearts and minds. And then things just degrade from there.

If we have a real reason to go to war, we don't care about any of that. Should have been the case in Afghanistan but for whatever reason Bush listened to chorus of morons who were bleating "You can't just go there and kill people and then leave....."

#39 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-20 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You only think you know and it is based upon the misinformation that the oligarch owned and controlled media tells you."

You mean oligarchs and controllers like these????

"ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.

CBS President David Rhodes is the brother of Ben Rhodes, Obama's Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications.

ABC News correspondent Claire Shipman is married to former Whitehouse Press Secretary Jay Carney

ABC News and Univision reporter Matthew Jaffe is married to Katie Hogan, Obama's Deputy Press Secretary

ABC President Ben Sherwood is the brother of Obama's Special Adviser Elizabeth Sherwood

CNN President Virginia Moseley is married to former Hillary Clinton's Deputy Secretary Tom Nides."

Damn! I've only been here a short while and I'm already overcome with nausea from this association with my little "progressive" DR buddies.

#40 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-20 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#39 | POSTED BY SULLY

The most egregious mistake made by Bush and Co. in both wars was the lack of Arabic translators within U.S. forces. There are not many things worse than foreign soldiers kicking in doors, acting like nothing other than occupiers, screaming at locals in a foreign language and expecting those unable to understand them to comply. Winning hearts and minds? U.S. forces couldn't even ask them directions to the market. And then we were expected to train them? How can you train them if you can't talk to them?

For all the failures and real ---- ups Bush and Co. fell into, this was the most simple, and therefor egregious, offense that could even be conceived. 150,000 troops (250,000 short of what was requested by Abizade) and none that can speak the local language.

Set for failure all thanks to Donnie Rumsfeld. The U.S. has fallen victim to sociopathic decision making on the part of Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. Bush, however, I believe is fully empathetic and is partially why he's kept quiet for so long since leaving office. He actually does feel remorse, unlike his two immediate underlings.

#41 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting.

Turns out a horse can lead itself to water and still not drink.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-20 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Set for failure all thanks to Donnie Rumsfeld. The U.S. has fallen victim to sociopathic decision making on the part of Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney."

That fool Paul Bremer needs to share the blame, he's the idiot who fired the military and the police.

#43 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-20 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I do not know what everyone is getting so upset about. This is just Muslims being Muslims. As it pertains to IS, you must kill all of them, just like a cockroach, other wise it will bred and will be back.
Does anyone here really think that the moderate Muslims will help in killing off the extreme members of Islam any more than the Jews will do the same for the extreme members of their "religion".

#44 | Posted by Anon451 at 2014-08-20 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Winning hearts and minds? U.S. forces couldn't even ask them directions to the market. And then we were expected to train them? How can you train them if you can't talk to them?"

I agree that the implementation was horrible.

But I still believe the plan was flawed from the start. I can get past our having no rason to invade Iraq in the first place.

#45 | Posted by sully at 2014-08-20 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

That fool Paul Bremer needs to share the blame, he's the idiot who fired the military and the police.
#43 | POSTED BY DANNI

Interesting how we are only now experiencing the full brunt of consequences stemming from that decision. ISIL is significantly made up of former Bathist military. But Bremmer's call to do that was fully supported by Rumsfeld and would have been made whether Bremmer made the call or not, IMO. The environment of ---- UP was centered around Rumsfeld. This truly was Rumsfeld's war, considering he would outright ignore orders from Bush to which he was never held accountable. Condee Rice refused to stand up to him and Cheney felt he was doing the job exactly as he should have. Only Powell and Abizade stood as opposition against some of the worst decisions, but even then, their opposition was not enough.

I truly, truly implore everyone to consider reading State of Denial by Bob Woodward. It's disgustingly interesting and actually fits the narrative that those of us who were actually questioning Bush and Co.'s intents in Iraq were considering to be true as it all unfolded.

#46 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

But I still believe the plan was flawed from the start. I can get past our having no rason to invade Iraq in the first place.
#45 | POSTED BY SULLY

Considering we ran the gambit of justifications as each justification fell apart, I entirely agree. There shouldn't have been a list of justifications in the first place. Red flag number one was raised when they couldn't decide which reason would be best to justify invasion.

#47 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

#44 | POSTED BY ANON451

Let me ask you, how's that stamping out of Al Queda going for us? Oh, yeah. ISIL is now Al Queda. 400 Brits have now joined ISIL to fight against Americans.

So, safe to say your and Bush's foreign policy (one in the same) is complete --------. The U.S. has been going about this war using your tactic and where has it gotten us?

Perpetual peace for perpetual war when you wage war against a mere tactic.

#48 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"They will be as brutal as needed in order to win.

Something the West has never seen before.

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Are you familiar with the history of Western Civilization? Or maybe just U.S. history? The U.S. beheaded more indochinese with bombs, cluster bombs, napalm, land mines, etc., than Al Qaeda could ever hope for with swords.

#49 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-20 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"However, I will point out that Iraq was relatively stable when Bush left office.

When the troops were pulled out is when Iraq descended into chaos.."

Nonsense! I love how you guys continually try to rewrite history.

Actually, Iraq descended into chaos in the ensuing power vacuum left when America decided to have Saddam Hussein forceably removed from power and has never recovered.

We are not really very good at Nation building.

#50 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

When the troops were pulled out is when Iraq descended into chaos...

Damn that B. Hussein Obama! Pulling out the troops when the people of the U.S. wanted him to do exactly that!

Seven out of ten people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Thursday [March 19, 2009] say they support the president's announced plan to remove most U.S. troops from Iraq by August of next year.
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Perpetual occupation was the answer?

You're a disgusting apologist. Bush broke Iraq and you want Obama to pay for it?

Partisan hackery at its best.

#51 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. officials say military planners are weighing the possibility of sending more American forces to Iraq mainly to provide additional security around Baghdad.

A senior U.S. official says the number of troops currently under discussion would be fewer than 300, but there has been no final decision yet by Pentagon leaders.

The talks come as American fighter jets and drones conducted nearly a dozen airstrikes in Iraq since Tuesday when Islamic State militants threatened to kill a second American captive in retribution for any continued attacks.

A U.S. official says the strikes came in the hours after militants released a gruesome video Tuesday showing U.S. journalist James Foley being beheaded.

Read more: www.huffingtonpost.com

#52 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-20 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

we'll never leave Iraq. just like we've never left Germany or Japan.

#53 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-20 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

we'll never leave Iraq. just like we've never left Germany or Japan.

Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-20 04:21 PM | Reply

Not until the last drop of oil is pumped from the Iraqi soil.

#54 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-20 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Iraqi soil

Would you please stop that? The U.S. has not benefited one iota from Iraqi oil. There's probably more oil coming from Corky's rear end than from Iraq.

#55 | Posted by boaz at 2014-08-20 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Would you please stop that? The U.S. has not benefited one iota from Iraqi oil. There's probably more oil coming from Corky's rear end than from Iraq.

#55 | Posted by boaz at 2014-08-20 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Better check yourself Boaz

www.eia.gov

351,000 barrels of crude oil from Iraq per day as of May 2014.

#56 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-20 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I love to watch liberals deal with true brutality. It was on the news that this reporters family asked for mercy from ISIS. How did that work out?

Only one way to deal with people like ISIS. You have to kill them. Anyway you can..

#57 | Posted by boaz at 2014-08-20 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Larry,

That's a drop in a thumbnail.

#58 | Posted by boaz at 2014-08-20 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

" This truly was Rumsfeld's war, considering he would outright ignore orders from Bush to which he was never held accountable."

Sounds about right to me so Rummy should get a special spot in Hell but the others deserve their spots too.

#59 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-20 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Boaz is correct...ISIS needs to be obliterated.

#60 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2014-08-20 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Of course this is part of Bush's legacy."

That's sort of an unknown. While it can't be discounted, it's also worth mentioning that ISIS has roots in Syria. The US took active steps to disarm Assad at a point when Assad was fighting ISIS, and may have even been able to wipe them out. And those actions can be credited exclusively to the Obama administration.

The best shot at a Bush tie-in is involvement in Iraq, but even that connection is somewhat tentative. There really isn't much that Bush could have done to prevent this conflict, other than keep troops in Iraq long-term to ensure the Sunni's weren't eventually subjugated by the government in Baghdad. But in 2009 there would have been no way to predict that Al-Malaki would eventually turn against the Sunnis, thus leading them into the arms of ISIS.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-20 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The reason why we "lose" wars lately is that we define the conditions for victory in such a way that victory is beyond our control."

No

The reason we lose wars is because the conditions for victory exceed our capacity for violence. The Japanese were willing to die to the last man, woman, and child at the end of WWII. They were willing to do so because they correctly understood that their only shot at victory was creating enough US casualties that Americans would eventually lose their willingness to fight and accept some sort of cease fire in which they could negotiate the terms. The nuclear bomb changed that decision calculus. After Nagasaki and Hiroshima, they realized that the west could inflict mass casualties with impunity, thus depriving them of a position to negotiate from.

ISIS is no different from the Japanese. In a stand-up fight they're going to lose. Their only hope for victory is getting the US (and others) out of the fight. Truth be told, the US is probably the easiest adversary for them to overcome. We tend to defeat ourselves. The real threats will come from Syria and Iran, who won't show any hesitation in removing ISIS from the face of the planet. And so do with a lot of westerners cheering them on for doing what we in the west seem incapable of doing.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-20 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

The folks in ISIS are very conservative, (not that there is anything wrong with that ...mind you)

They call themselves freedom fighters, just like Robert E Lee and many other "Red State" heroes-murderers

#63 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-08-20 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They call themselves freedom fighters, just like Robert E Lee and many other "Red State" heroes-murderers"

They call themselves freedom fighters, just like Che, Castro, Guzman, Allende, Marx, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many other "blue state" heroes-murderers.

FTFY, except for your bad grammar, which I could not fix.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-20 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

There really isn't much that Bush could have done to prevent this conflict, other than...
#61 | Posted by madbomber

Other than not invade Iraq.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-21 01:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Japanese were willing to die to the last man, woman, and child at the end of WWII. They were willing to do so because they correctly understood that their only shot at victory was creating enough US casualties that Americans would eventually lose their willingness to fight and accept some sort of cease fire in which they could negotiate the terms.
#62 | Posted by madbomber

What the...

You just described a negotiated ceasefire by a beleaguered, resource-depleted Japan a victory for Japan, which is not accurate at all.

The Germans negotiated a ceasefire at Versailles. It was not a victory for Germany.

Japan emerged roughly as victorious as they would have in a negotiated ceasefire with their unconditional surrender, seeing as we let the Emperor live.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-21 02:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

I like how Mackris just completely punched out from this thread once the questions got too tricky.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-21 02:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

Would you please stop that? The U.S. has not benefited one iota from Iraqi oil. There's probably more oil coming from Corky's rear end than from Iraq

#55 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2014-08-20 05:18 PM | REPLY | FLAG:SO TRUE

Only because losers like you couldn't win the hearts and minds of them them there muzlims. There is something about going in under false pretenses that makes business deals go sour.

Damn! I've only been here a short while and I'm already overcome with nausea from this association with my little "progressive" DR buddies.

#40 | POSTED BY JESTGETTINALONG AT 2014-08-20 01:06 PM | REPLY | FLAG:PATHETIC AND PETTY

So what? Politicians aren't allowed to marry people in the media?

Greenspan is married to Andrea Mitchell... crap ------------- put two kings of B movies into politics. If Ahhhhhnuld hadn't screwed CA's economy so bad the clown brigade would have tried changed the law in order to put another brain dead sock puppet into office.

Personally I think a more significant connection is Osama bin Laden's older brother Salem was a business partner the Bush 2.0. Salem died under suspicious circumstances. Kinda makes you think when Bushhole 2.0 wasn't worried about him... knew he"was on the run" when he was talking up going after the man who tried to kill is daddy. There are still bin Laden connections that own huge swaths of Texas.

#68 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-08-21 02:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

"No

The reason we lose wars is because the conditions for victory exceed our capacity for violence."

Madbomber, when you can tell me how an increased capacity for violence would have made Iraqis or Afghanis embrace the government we wanted for them - even after we withdrew - then you'll have the beginnings of a counter argument to what I said. Until then you're just proving that you don't understand events that unfolded in front of your face.

The reason why we care about hearts and minds in these crappy places full of crazy people isn't that we lack the capacity for violence. Its because our goals necessitate that we care about hearts and minds. No amount of violence can overcome the foolishly fatal flaw of making victory dependent on the actions of people who hate us.

#69 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-21 09:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not going to fight policy or assign blame right now. This, IMHO, is not the thread for it.

RIP.

#70 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 09:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

#57 | POSTED BY BOAZ

#60 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

#62 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Lemme add myself to the list of posters who see that no amount of just watching, negotiating, appeasing or singing "Kumbayah" is going to alter the goals or behavior of these savages. I absolutely believed them when they said they intended to raise their flag in the White House and whether we stop bombing them or not, those other journalists are doomed. The truth is we, and any allies, have to completely destroy them, their material, supply sources, food, and everything else that makes them capable of carrying out these activities. Yes, many innocents will die but it is unavoidable. We have to decide, if we want to have peace and security or suffer innocent civilians dying in this country, we have to kill them before the next major event takes place here. The next one is bound to be much bigger and have longer effects than 9/11. On that one day nineteen radical Muslims killed more Americans than died at Pearl Harbor which took two different attacks, many planes and pilots and four aircraft carriers to accomplish. Just think about it, how many radicals would it take to kill many, many more Americans with today's technology and do you think they would hesitate to use anything they might acquire?

#71 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#71 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nobody has claimed that ISIS can be reasoned with or that they don't deserve to be wiped out.

The disagreements have been over other issues.

#72 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-21 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

That is the old "Saddam lover" argument that was pathetic then and is pathetic now.

#73 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Al Gore was a journalist also, in the most dangerous place on earth, at the time. There were no front lines in Vietnam. His VOLUNTARY service was mocked here on DR just yesterday, and constantly by right-wing-nut idiots for the last 40+ years.

#74 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-08-21 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Nobody has claimed that ISIS can be reasoned with or that they don't deserve to be wiped out."

Good! So when should we begin the "wiping out?" Surely you aren't proposing to wait until after the next mass killing event in the U.S., are you? By all accounts, we missed the the best time to start back when they were leaving Syria after controlling a large part of it and started on Iraq. Now they have all those captured weapons, material and are attacking Lebanon, threatening Jordan et al. All the "precision bombing" and "pinpricks" are just poking the tiger with a stick at this stage. It certainly ain't gonna accomplish any "wiping out." (I bet the far left "progressives" here hate that description. Its sooooo non-PC, you know.)

#75 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

#73 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

When hacks toss out the ridiculous claim that we lack the "will" to win wars, they are really trying to blame everyone else for the fact that retards like Bush and Rummy screwed up. No amount of killing was ever going to turn Iraq or Afgahnistan into democracies. It was stupid to set these as goals in the first place. Afgahnistan should have been about wiping out our enemies and leaving. That would have been possible. Nation building was never going to happen. Iraq was always based on lies so there is no sense in talking about what reasonable goals for Iraq would have been.

The hacks simply don't want to admit that they voted twice for a pathetic failure. So they make up this nonsensical bullcrap about how "liberals" hamstrung our efforts and if we had only killed more Iraqis, they would have liked us more and gone along with our program.

Its transparent nonsense coming from people who are allergic to accountability.

#76 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-21 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So when should we begin the "wiping out?""

Get to it. I support you 100%.

#77 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-21 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

So when should we begin the "wiping out?"

Enlist and go. I will support you. My taxes will help fund your trip. Have a blast.

#78 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I just read a article that there are around 500 hundred members of ISIL that are from the UK. About half of those have returned to the UK. Obama has already sent about a 1000 special forces to Iraq which are calling in the recent air strikes and a official at the Pentagon has said that they are considering sending another 300. The media won't report on it much or go back over to Iraq but, we have boots on the ground. In another month we'll have even more troops there.

#79 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-21 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

#77 | POSTED BY SULLY

#78 | POSTED BY KANREI

LOL...I avidly assure you, I would volunteer today if I thought they'd take me back on flight status. I doubt they would since I retired after a 20-year career in 1975. I might add I first landed at Tan San Nhut in 1958 and flew on my last mission from Cam Ranh in 1971 so I have much experience. Still in flight weight though.

#80 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 01:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

.I avidly assure you, I would volunteer today if I thought they'd take me back on flight status.

There are many many ways you can volunteer. The "I would but" nonsense is pathetic. Easier to complain from the couch I guess.

#81 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 01:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

The media won't report on it much or go back over to Iraq but, we have boots on the ground. In another month we'll have even more troops there.

#79 | POSTED BY DALTON AT 2014-08-21 01:54 PM

We had boots on the ground since the first airstrike. You can't do airstrikes without a ground force if, for no other reason than you need people to get anyone shot down.

#82 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

500 boots on the ground is the same a 500,000 to people who can't count.

#83 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"In another month we'll have even more troops there."

I sincerely believe that if we launch a serious sustained plan with our overwhelming air assets we'll see the threatened countries in the ME supply the "boots," certainly the Kurds and even the Iraqis will. Even the Saudis are very worried and I wouldn't be surprised to see them contribute like they did back during Bush 43's term. Problem is....we don't have the leadership to lead from in FRONT and form the coalition like we had back then.

#84 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

to people who can't count.

#83 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2014-08-21 02:01 PM |

Do you want to have an adult discussion or be passive aggressive with your childish insults?

#85 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

we'll see the threatened countries in the ME supply the "boots," certainly the Kurds and even the Iraqis will.

You won't. The Iraqis are fleeing which is arming ISIS even more and the Kurds...well, they want their own Kurdistan and Turkey will not abide by that as southern Turkey is also full of Kurds who will then demand their independence as well.

#86 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

500 boots on the ground is the same a 500,000 to people who can't count.

Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 02:01 PM | Reply

Isn't that how Vietnam started???

#87 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-21 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#85

I'd like to see you not think that everything is about you.

I quoted the 500 from another poster.

But since you responded, I will say that people who constantly said that Obama wanted to "leave our troops in Iraq" were hoping people read that as closer to 500,000 that they did 500.

#88 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Didn't say it was about me. I simply called you out for your silly pathetic passive aggressive nonsense. "to people who can't count?" ROFLMAO!

But since you responded, I will say that people who constantly said that Obama wanted to "leave our troops in Iraq"

That is a fact beyond denying. If Iraq agreed to extend the immunity, Obama would have kept troops there.

#89 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"There are many many ways you can volunteer. The "I would but" nonsense is pathetic. Easier to complain from the couch I guess."

Oh, I do my part as well as I can. I greet returnees at the airport, I am involved with activities with the VFW and the Legion and I contribute to Wounded Warriors, DAV and some others. It's the actively "wiping out" where I'm rather limited. If only they'd supply me with some precision ballistic missiles perhaps I could launch them from my back yard. Incidentally, what do you do for YOUR part??? Nothing? Now THAT'S what's pathetic.

#90 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

- kept troops there.

Closer to 500 or 500,000?

#91 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Incidentally, what do you do for YOUR part?

What do I do? I protest and vote for people who will stop killing and bring our troops home. I do nothing to support this war because I do not support this war.

Asking what I do is almost as pathetic as calling someone a "Saddam lover."

#92 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

#85 | POSTED BY KANREI

Thank you for saying that for me. I have given up on the poor misguided soul and just don't have any discourse with him any longer.

#93 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't see fighting ISIS as turning into a "Vietnam" situation unless our leaders turn it into one by expanding goals beyond wiping out ISIS. The Vietnamese were extremely intelligent and resourceful. ISIS is a bunch of thugs who think they will win because Allah.

The problem as I see if is that it would be easy enough to militarily defeat ISIS if they were to stay in Iraq. But once ISIS realizes they are about to be wiped out, they'll retreat into Syria. And there are legitimate concerns that pertain to going into Syria.

#94 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-21 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a moron. The 500 are UK citizens. We already have a thousand special forces and are considering another 300. Reading is fundamental. I'm not saying it's a bad thing just that it is what it is.

#95 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-21 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What do I do? I protest and vote for people who will stop killing and bring our troops home. I do nothing to support this war because I do not support this war."

I can accept that. I can't say I'm in favor of war myself. The difference is, I believe THIS war is necessary just as WWII became necessary. Many won't admit it but the enemy has ALREADY declared war on us and we can either recognize it now or just wait around and see what happens....kinda like WWII.

#96 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

For the record, I also view my opposition to this war as supporting the troops because I don't want them killing or dying over lies anymore. Even recently, we were there for the thousands on the mountain who had no food? Turns out they were coming and going as they pleased and had so much food it was spoiling. We were fooled again into another "humanitarian" war as if there can be such a thing.

#97 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

For the record, I also view my opposition to this war as supporting the troops because I don't want them killing or dying over lies anymore. Even recently, we were there for the thousands on the mountain who had no food? Turns out they were coming and going as they pleased and had so much food it was spoiling. We were fooled again into another "humanitarian" war as if there can be such a thing.

Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 02:23 PM | Reply

Irrelevant talking point today. Flying food and water to displaced people and/or bombing ISIS without putting over 100,000 troops on the ground has nothing to do with oil. I agree oil had much to do with Dubya's invasion but it has absolutely nothing to do with what Obama is doing today.

Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 11:05 AM | Reply

You bet it has everything to do with Oil today. Obama is using the Humanitarian meme so the populace will go along with military action. Sad to say.

#73 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag

#98 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-21 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

For the record, thousands of people herded onto that mountain for the promised genocide by ISIL were able to leave in the next couple of nights because of US air strikes and Kurdish militia, so things were not quite so dire by the time we got a few troops there to reconnoiter.

And guess what?

The world didn't end because we helped stop a genocide because we could.

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The problem as I see if is that it would be easy enough to militarily defeat ISIS if they were to stay in Iraq. But once ISIS realizes they are about to be wiped out, they'll retreat into Syria."

Exactly. And once they've been pounded, severly degraded have and retreated "wherever," I feel pretty sure that they won't be welcomed and will be fallen upon by the forces of THAT country. I don't think the Syrians love them much.

#100 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

The world didn't end because we helped stop a genocide because we could. #99 | Posted by Corky

There was no genocide to stop, no WMDs to find, no boogeyman to hunt down. It's all an imbedded-media illusion cooked up to manipulate the masses into their perpetual war.

This week, the POTUS is "enraged" by a beheading which will let him increase bombing, send in more "advisors" and prolong the military action. Next week, next month a new outrage will fuel the frenzy.

#101 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-21 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you want to have an adult discussion or be passive aggressive with your childish insults? #85 | Posted by kanrei

"no, yes, and nanny-nanny-booboo" - From the Puritopian Handbook, "Art of the Debate"

#102 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-21 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

-There was no genocide to stop,

The unreality is strong in this one.

#103 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-21 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

What I find most amazing about all this is literally every state in the Middle East has a vested interest in putting ISIS down, yet they can't overcome their differences to do it.

If they can't find a way to do it, then I look forward to Boaz's support for an ISIS controlled Middle East, where Only The Strong Survive(d). That is, after all, the natural order, at least according to Boaz.

So here's what we should do. If it takes another ten or twenty years, and during that time we become less and less reliant on Middle East oil, nobody here will really care. Because the current "natural order" of human society, at least in the industrialized world, is one in which the Middle East is only relevant because it has energy resources that we need. And it sure as heck doesn't have the water resources we're going to need soon.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-21 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Other than not invade Iraq."

You're presupposing that Syria would have remained stable. That's a pretty liberal presupposition.

I don't disagree, but only because I don't think that ISIS would have gone anywhere had Saddam been in power. First, it's unlikely the Sunnis would have sided with anyone other than Saddam, and second, even if they did, Saddam would have crushed them.

"You just described a negotiated ceasefire by a beleaguered, resource-depleted Japan a victory for Japan, which is not accurate at all."

Compared with unconditional surrender? Yes. It would have been a victory. The Japanese were attempting to negotiate an end to the war that would not have left them subjugated to the US. In the absence of such a termination, the "Big Six" adopted the stance that Japan would fight to extinction rather than surrender. The fact that they were going to go extinct without the benefit of inflicting US casualties is what drove them to surrender unconditionally. And accept disarmament, and occupation, and all the other things that accompany this type of outcome.

#105 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-21 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

How do we know for certain that this poor soul was beheaded by the supposed ISIS group and not by some other faction to create world disgust? I was gullible in 9-2001 and 4-2003. I'm skeptical of these events because they do actually benefit someone.

Israel has a long history of setting up the Americans, English, Egyptians and Arabs with false flags. Search "Israel false flags" then pick your own. If not for a Russian sub who actually saw the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, Israel may have sunk it with unmarked planes and PT boats and blame Egypt, the USA then might have been sucked into a bombing attack on Egypt.

These entangling alliances that we were warned about allow other countries that are portrayed as our allies to instead play us like a fiddle on their behalf against their enemies.

#106 | Posted by Robson at 2014-08-21 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Madbomber, when you can tell me how an increased capacity for violence would have made Iraqis or Afghanis embrace the government we wanted for them - even after we withdrew - then you'll have the beginnings of a counter argument to what I said."

You'll need to look no further than regional history.

Iraq accepted Saddam Hussein because he gave them no other choice. It was accept or be tortured, raped, and probably killed.

Same thing in Afghanistan. As late as 1890, there were non-Muslims living in the mountains of Afghanistan. According to credible accounts, including Kipling, they were a tough bunch, and very resistant to the pressure to convert. Back then the region was known as Kafiristan, or the land of the infidels. In 1895, Abdur Rahman Khan invaded the region and conducted forcible conversions, killing off those who refused (sound familiar). The area is now known as Nuristan, and has been one of the hotter spots in RC East.

#107 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-21 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No amount of violence can overcome the foolishly fatal flaw of making victory dependent on the actions of people who hate us."

It seems to have worked swimmingly with Abdur Rahman Khan in Afghanistan. Equally as well with the US in Japan and Germany. It's better to be feared than loved. Particularly when love probably isn't possible.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-21 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Al Gore was a journalist also, in the most dangerous place on earth, at the time. There were no front lines in Vietnam."

Al Gore was an active duty military member. Quite different than a civilian.

Not that Gore deserves to be mocked, but there is a distinction to be made.

"No amount of killing was ever going to turn Iraq or Afgahnistan into democracies. It was stupid to set these as goals in the first place. Afgahnistan should have been about wiping out our enemies and leaving. That would have been possible. Nation building was never going to happen. Iraq was always based on lies so there is no sense in talking about what reasonable goals for Iraq would have been."

That's correct. We shot ourselves in the foot by taking out Saddam. That just left us leaving another dictator with the power and willingness to control than country. What we should have done is paid him off and brought him in on our side. Same thing in Afghanistan. And Syria, for that matter. We may not like Assad, but he's better than the next best alternative. And the members of the free Syrian Army who want a democracy need to wake up. It ain't gonna happen. They need to stop being naïve, and understand that, regardless of how much they may dislike Assad, he's still a hell of a lot more progressive than ISIS. If you want democracy, then you should probably move to a country where those around you want it as well.

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-21 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If not for a Russian sub who actually saw the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967..."

I can guarantee you that no Russian sub saw any attack on the Liberty in June of '67. I was assigned to an admiral's staff aboard the ant-submarine carrier USS Randolph during that time. Just prior to deployment we attended a highly classified intelligence briefing telling us how many Russian subs were in the Mediterranean and what class they were. Our air group had located and were tracking them and knew where they were. I'm sorry, but your source for this info is just plain misinformed. Besides, no respectable sub skipper would ever raise a pipe in such close contact with other vessels. I'm sure you'd have seen periscope photos and/or videos by this time as well.

#110 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, comrade, but you are mistaken. You see, I was aboard the Soviet submarine that was in the area and watched the whole attack through the periscope, after, of course, slipping through your clumsy capitalist ASW net. We then went off the coast of your largest city and listened to your "rock an roll" while we conducted missile drills.

Because here on the Drudge Retort, we are all veterans who happen to have been privy to firsthand and/or classified knowledge that gives us unique insights into major historical events. Now if you will excuse me, I am off to see the mountains of Montana...

#111 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2014-08-21 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

W's legacy lives on.

Another American dies from his stupidity.

#5 | Posted by 726

Well, there we have it folks, the dumbest post on the retort to date, and that's saying something.

#112 | Posted by americanPLY at 2014-08-21 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

W's legacy lives on.

Another American dies from his stupidity.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2014-08-20 08:21 AM | Reply | Flag

You forgot to add the other Bush too.

#113 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-21 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You see, I was aboard the Soviet submarine that was in the area and watched the whole attack through the periscope,..."

Damn, Dirk! You must have been the capitan to have had access to the scope that long. Did you keep it exposed the whole time? Very, very stupid you know. Were you perhaps the skipper of the Foxtrot class we forced to the surface after holding it down and tracking it for 105 hours? It resulted in an "all nav" message because we formerly estimated them to have a "can" of about 48 hours. We never did discover if the batteries were fully charge when she submerged either.

#114 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-08-21 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Did you keep it exposed the whole time?"

You have to keep the scope up in order to send Morse code transmissions, but they are directional.

#115 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-21 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You must have been the capitan to have had access to the scope that long."

Why do you say this? Are American captains that particular about letting others spend quality time with their scopes? I had heard it was otherwise...

"Did you keep it exposed the whole time? Very, very stupid you know."

Oh, American seamen... Always so concerned about exposed scopes.

Incidentally, I cannot seem to locate this site's "shockingly immune to irony flag." Perhaps I am simply unfamiliar with the interface?

#116 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2014-08-21 06:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

EXCERPT:
last year, a russian translation of joseph daichman's "history of the mossad" was published in moscow. the author describes the tragedy in 1967 in detail. he admits that it was perfectly clear that the liberty was an american ship and that the attack was committed to deprive the usa "of its eyes and ears," of the opportunity to control the situation. daichman says the attackers had the right to act so. the israelis feared that the liberty would report information about the course of the war: they wanted to keep it a secret that troops had been shifted to syria and the egyptian border wasn't protected at all. the border was quite open for egyptian soldiers to cross. israel knew that american radio signals were intercepted by the soviet union, and the latter would certainly inform egypt of the fact. that is why the liberty was to be sunk to avoid leakage of important information. this is a very cynical version. i even couldn't have thought that i would ever read it.

www.ussliberty.org

#117 | Posted by Robson at 2014-08-21 10:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.unitedstatesgovernment.net

nodisinfo.com

Princess Diana Murder

#118 | Posted by Robson at 2014-08-21 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

It seems to have worked swimmingly with Abdur Rahman Khan in Afghanistan. Equally as well with the US in Japan and Germany. It's better to be feared than loved. Particularly when love probably isn't possible.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-21 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

No government is going to last in Afgahnistan. The German people did not hate us and by the end of WWII they realized that following Hitler was a huge mistake. We did not have to win hearts and minds with Germany. They knew they were defeated and had to move on. The Japanese went along with the program because their emporer told us too. We did not win hearts and minds in Japan. The people did what they were told by their authortities.

#119 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-22 09:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not to mention the alternative for the Japanese and Germans was Russian domination. WWII created unique circumstances and is almost always a horrible basis for comparison.

#120 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-22 09:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not to mention the alternative for the Japanese and Germans was Russian domination. WWII created unique circumstances and is almost always a horrible basis for comparison.
#120 | Posted by Sully

Spoiler alert, a good fictionalization of the history is in the movie The Bridge At Remagen. The commander had orders to blow it up; his love for his country is why he didn't. By then it was only a matter of time before Hitler was finished, and expediting the Americans across the Rhine would keep less of Germany from falling into the hands of the Russians.

I happened to be in Remagen on the 60th anniversary of V-E Day; from the plaque:


Peace Museum Bridge at Remagen
When an advance detachment of the US 9th Armored Division reached the Rhine at Remagen on March 7th, 1945, the Americans found the Bridge undestroyed. "Cross the Rhine with dry feet..." was what they proudly wrote on the Bridge in large letters.

American General Dwight D. Eisenhower is quoted as having said the Bridge was worth its weight in gold -- Hitler, furious, suspected sabotage and had five of his officers sentenced to death by a kangaroo court. Ten days later, the bridge collapsed, heavily damaged as a result of numerous attempts to destroy it by artillery, bombs and rockets.

One the one hand, it is a local museum, telling of everyday life, fame and the trauma of a town along the Rhine -- on the other hand, the museum in the towers puts into perspective the complex world history aspect of the Bridge. Above all, however, the towers are silent witnesses of the war and a memorial to peace -- a theme which extends throughout the Museum.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-22 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

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