Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, August 20, 2014

An excerpt of store security video shot from a different angle appears to show Michael Brown at a check-out counter paying for his cigars before the apparent confrontation with the store clerk, calling into question the police claim that he was stealing them. "It's not clear why the clerk confronted Brown, and why the much larger 18-year-old shoved the clerk, if no robbery was involved," writes William Norman Grigg of LewRockwell.Com. "One possibility is that the altercation occurred because the clerk 'carded' the 18-year-old, who was of legal age to buy tobacco products in Missouri."

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ClownShack

 

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the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store.

According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.

#1 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just like I said.

The MO police department have been cooking the facts from the moment of Michael Brown's murder.

#2 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

More FTA:

Even if Michael Brown were a petty thief, this does not excuse the cold-blooded shooting death of the 18-year-old. Of course the right-wing took the robbery claim at face value, and began labeling Michael Brown as a ‘thug‘ who did not deserve due process.

I think our very own Dix and chaireborne did that same exact thing.

almost pavlovian of them.

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target, due to the Ferguson PD's attempt to tie their store to the fateful shooting. A gross abuse of police authority, one which now puts someone else at risk.

I thought their store was already looted.

The store owner needs to be interviewed. Though, if it turns out the owner says he was not robbed, Ferguson may just blow up all over again.

The Ferguson PD really screwed the pooch on this one.

#4 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

almost pavlovian of them.
#3 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

To be fair, they do have the possibility that Brown lunged at the officer. Just or not, it does not take much for an officer to justify lethal force if he/she perceives to be in physical danger.

Similar incident happened in San Diego, down the street from my house, about 25 years ago. A mentally deranged man was on his lawn with an ice pick threatening the cops that had surrounded him. Just when the cops thought he was about to drop the ice pick and end the situation peacefully, the guy "reportedly" lunged at an officer...let's just say they unloaded on him. It was a touchy subject and neighbors were very upset that the cops killed him, but when a suspect lunges at a cop, that's all it takes.

And in reality, he doesn't have to actually lunge. It just takes the cop's word that he did so. Which is why I believe Wilson will not be charged with a crime.

#5 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which is why I believe Wilson will not be charged with a crime.

neither was Zimmerman.

want to get away with murder in America?

Shoot a black person and claim he was a "thug".

Been working for decades now.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target,
I thought their store was already looted.

There is a difference between your health and the health of your business.

The store owner needs to be interviewed. Though, if it turns out the owner says he was not robbed, Ferguson may just blow up all over again. - RstyBeach

Let us repeat one more time...
The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target,

I have never seen anyone lean over a counter like that? I didn't see any change put in his pocket, or putting his credit card in his wallet either.

Where did he pay the owner?

#7 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-19 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The MO police department have been cooking the facts from the moment of Michael Brown's murder"

And Fox news and its slavish audience has eagerly assisted in this effort.

#8 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-08-19 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target,

Falsely reporting that Brown robbed the liquor store now makes the liquor store a target for angry people.

IF he didn't rob the liquor store then it should never have been reported that he had.

Which is why they seem to have hired an attorney.

I would sue the police department for making my business the target of mob violence as well.

#9 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But but but the robbery had nothing to do w/ the shooting!-Wing Dings

#10 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-19 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

The store owners are now afraid of themselves becoming a target,

Wow, it must suck to feel like a young black man, having to worry about becoming a target.

But at least they weren't born store owners so they have that going for them.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let us repeat one more time...

Obviously they already are a target IF THERE BUSINESS WAS DIRECTLY TARGETED!

Where did he pay the owner?
#7 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

"Though, if it turns out the owner says he was not robbed, Ferguson may just blow up all over again. - RstyBeach"

Not too smart today, are you MACKRIS!

HAHAHAHA!

#12 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

or putting his credit card in his wallet either.

18 year old "thugs" don't usually have Credit Cards.

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

But but but the robbery had nothing to do w/ the shooting!-Wing Dings
#10 | POSTED BY DALTON

It doesn't.

The officer that killed Michael Brown had no clue that Michael Brown had "robbed a liquor store".

Therefore, adding Michael Brown had "robbed a liquor store" to the equation was only intended to inflame the hate of racist America.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Saw some suggested on this video that what the clerk had issue with was the passing off of the cigarettes once he purchased them. Maybe other guy looked a lot younger than Ferguson.

Fact is, they have yet to charge anyone in a robbery, but released a murky video that was pieced apart similar to this one and attached their own narrative.

#15 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-08-19 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shazammmmmmmmmmm The police trying to save their bacon once again.

#16 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-19 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was either highly irresponsible or intentionally misleading to release the video and claim that it showed a robbery when it did not.

Still, wasn't very nice of Brown to bully that clerk like that.

#17 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-19 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Still, wasn't very nice of Brown to bully that clerk like that.

he should be shot!

6 times!!

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wonder why his friend admitted to the robbery via his attorney's statements?

#19 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-19 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wait, so the police made a false call to 911 pretending to be the store, then dispatched an officer to the store prior to the shooting, during that dispatch a description was either just made up on the spot or Brown was targeted, then an officer got to the store and talked to the clerk for no reason?

Seriously?

i2.cdn.turner.com
That's the report as well as some other police documents. They were called and responded.

But the denial is based on a video of him at the register?
As pointed out there is nothing showing currency exchanging hands in any sort. The police were called, but he was at the register so none of that counts? Because the store owners make a different and proven false claim to avoid more damage facts fly out the window?

Weird world some of you live in.

#20 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

he should be shot!

6 times!!

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

No need to go shart on yourself. I'm very skeptical about the cop's story.

Doesn't mean I'm going to watch a video of a guy manhandling a smaller dude and think its OK.

If your world view requires to pretend that what you saw in the video is OK because he paid for first, that's kind of sad.

#21 | Posted by sully at 2014-08-19 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But the denial is based on a video of him at the register?"

I would assume the store owner's claim that he didn't report a robbery and was confused as to why the cops showed up played into it too.

Seems like if the cops talked to the clerk they would know if Brown paid or not, which I agree is really settled by the video.

If the clerk told them there was no theft and they still released the video, that's a pretty clear attempt to mislead.

#22 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-19 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

If the clerk told them there was no theft and they still released the video, that's a pretty clear attempt to mislead."

The video was requested based on the FOIA, they did not have a choice.

#23 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I would assume the store owner's claim that he didn't report a robbery and was confused as to why the cops showed up played into it too."

In which i would agree with you except that the evidence pre-existed the shooting and this claim.

It's a smells fishy situation. It's kind hard to believe that there was a conspiracy predating the shooting by the police or that the clerks did not tell the owners.

#24 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It's a smells fishy situation. It's kind hard to believe that there was a conspiracy predating the shooting by the police or that the clerks did not tell the owners."

I'm not saying that they did this. But what could have happened is someone sees Brown pushing the clerk around and walking out with a whole box of cigars and reports a robbery. The police are called and then they find out there was no robbery but there was an altercation. Then the kid gets shot and they ask for the video of the altercation. Then the FOIA request comes in and the cops release the video and mention that Brown was a suspect connected to a strong armed robbery earlier in the day (which is true) but not that he was also cleared (which would be a lie by omission, IMO).

Again, not saying this happened but its a feasible scenario.

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-19 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

#21 | POSTED BY SULLY

I was actually capitalizing on your joke and gave you a funny flag.

it was meant as comedy.

too soon?

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

the police made a false call to 911 pretending to be the store...

FTA:

the store owner nor the employees did not report a theft at the store.

According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.



Weird world some of you live in.
#20 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

same to you buddy.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here try this:

Attorney For Ferguson Market: NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft

St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police.

The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.


Damn!! Thats some vigilance!! I mean, if all liquor store robberies were treated so seriously maybe crime in this country would actually go down.

it continues:

... the attorney wanted to emphasize the 911 call did not come from the owners or an employee.

I feel some DR poster's pants burning.

#28 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

But what could have happened is someone sees Brown pushing the clerk around and walking out with a whole box of cigars and reports a robbery. "

The problem is that the report specifically speaks of a conversation with the employee. Unfortunately the names have been redacted, assumed for safety, but they include the name of the person calling 911.

"Then the FOIA request comes in and the cops release the video and mention that Brown was a suspect connected to a strong armed robbery earlier in the day (which is true) but not that he was also cleared"

I am confused here, are you claiming that he was cleared? There was still an open robbery case. That Brown stole and assaulted the clerk was confirmed by his friend. The video shows it to be Brown as well.
It seems pretty normal for police to release such stuff before a case is closed, you see it on the news all the time and they will release a suspects name sometimes with it if they have it.

#29 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#29

Hey Saliliar, you read # 28 yet?

Spin it for me baby.

I love reading your creative mind squirm.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

am confused here, are you claiming that he was cleared?

I'm not claiming anything.

just showing you you are wrong.

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Funny how Saliliar seems to think he knows more about what happened than the store clerk.

Maybe you should go talk to him Sal, and remind him of what should of happened.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Spin it for me baby.
I love reading your creative mind squirm."

Spin what, a statement made after that conflicts with police records?

I posted the police report, read it.
It leaves no doubt as to the report of theft made by the clerk.

#33 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

"just showing you you are wrong."

Well, you need to work on that, you still have a long long way to go.

#34 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was actually capitalizing on your joke and gave you a funny flag.

it was meant as comedy.

too soon?

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

My apologies. Its not always clear when someone is joking but I guess I should have figure that one out.

#35 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-19 05:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, you need to work on that, you still have a long long way to go.
#34 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

Oh, so the attorney and the store clerk's statements aren't good enough to convince you Michael Brown didn't rob the liquor store?

I'll try to work something out with God for you.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Oh, so the attorney and the store clerk's statements aren't good enough to convince you Michael Brown didn't rob the liquor store?
I'll try to work something out with God for you."

The clerk made no such statement and you know it. His statement was that they took them and that was confirmed by an eyewitnesses and the friend of Brown.

#37 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

So the owners say the call must have come from a customer, not them. The police responded and wrote a report. The police report of the robbery was released.

The police should expect to provide the 911 call at some point.

The report:

i2.cdn.turner.com

#38 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

From the police report:

Call received 8/9 11:51
Arrived 8/9 11:54

Brown's encounter with the police came just minutes later.

Really, Clown -- even when the police have provided reports you don't read them or understand them.

#39 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

Really, Clown -- even when the police have provided reports you don't read them or understand them.
#39 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-19 06:23 PM

I had already seen those.

I notice there are no signatures.

Did you?

thanks.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

The signatures are redacted. So it goes.

#41 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 09:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Talk about American ignorance on display.

#42 | Posted by fresno500 at 2014-08-19 10:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only phone number is a cell number, and the only person saying a theft occurred does not, from reading the report, appear to be an employee. It looks like someone in the store saw something and called and the store didn't/doesn't know they were robbed, or they weren't robbed.

Did I miss something?

#43 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-19 10:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Actually the shopkeeper ran after Michael Brown because he forgot his change.

#44 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2014-08-19 11:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

The video was requested based on the FOIA, they did not have a choice.

FOIA requests generally take weeks or months. The premise the Ferguson police had to release it within two days when they weren't releasing Brown's autopsy or telling people how many times he was shot is pretty questionable.

FOIA didn't force the Ferguson police to cherry pick information that suited their agenda and hide the rest. If they knew he made a purchase and didn't tell anyone, it's further evidence they are engaged in a criminal cover up. The whole department should be cleaned out.

#45 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-20 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Nor has the incident report been released, which is required by law.

#46 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-20 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

"FOIA didn't force the Ferguson police to cherry pick information that suited their agenda and hide the rest."

Nor did they. They released what was asked for.
" If they knew he made a purchase and didn't tell anyone,"
But there is no evidence to suggest that he paid for it, in fact quite the contrary. It is obvious he did not pay for it and the clerk tried to stop him from leaving. This is nothing but a red herring.

#47 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 11:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

They released what was asked for.

Really? The video of Brown being a "Thug" was released before the cop's name, the number of bullets, and the autopsy.

The police department has an agenda and you've whole heartedly accepted it.

Because you're a racist and Michael Brown being a "criminal thug" is more acceptable to your world view than the police department being corrupt.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The signatures are redacted. So it goes.
#41 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

haven't you been slapped around enough?

The clerk never called 911.

so how was he reporting a theft?

Just cause your fellow racist in the liquor store decided to call 911 doesn't prove anything.

Its fascinating that you accept unsigned paper work as evidence of anything.

You just have an agenda.

#49 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The police department has an agenda and you've whole heartedly accepted it."

the police department, along with the media, special interest groups, etc...have an agenda.

Do you understand that?

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

the police department, along with the media, special interest groups, etc...have an agenda.
Do you understand that?
#50 | POSTED BY EBERLY

So, you're saying, the police department's agenda, to cover up Darren Wilson murdering Michael Brown, is the same agenda as the media and special interest groups, etc..?

that I don't understand.

But. If you're saying each one of them (police, media, special interest, etc...) has their own agenda, then sure. Obviously.

so, I guess I'm confused by what you're trying to ask me.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"so, I guess I'm confused by what you're trying to ask me."

that's because you are frothing at the mouth out of control angry right now, Clown.

Obviously they don't all have the same agenda. They each have an agenda....their own.

wow...how is it possible they could all have the same agenda?

#52 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

that's because you are frothing at the mouth out of control angry right now, Clown.

Not in the slightest bit Eb. Poking holes in the police departments fabricated story is a lot of fun.

Obviously they don't all have the same agenda. They each have an agenda....their own.

Obviously.

so my question to you is, what was the point of your question.

#53 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Not in the slightest bit Eb"

yeah....--------. you're wrapped intensely tight on this.

I just pointed out that everyone has an agenda in this circus.

you are focused on only the police departments.

the "gentle giant" meme was an agenda just to name one.

as far as the orbital fracture....how do we know anything for sure on that?

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

so why the altercation? because he was carded?

did the store owner say that?

did the store owner say that Brown paid for the cigars or not?

#55 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why is a page from a different incident included in sgators link? "2 year child with asthma"even a different incident number from the other 2 reports. looks Dan Ratherish to me.

#56 | Posted by Scotty at 2014-08-20 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

IF it turns out Brown had not just committed a robbery, that is a big deal. It means he would have had no consciousness of guilt when confronted by the cop, and therefore removed a big motivation he might have had to be resistive or confrontational with the cop. It also would add weight to the concern that the Ferguson police are simply trying to smear Brown. This is a BIG deal. Hopefully we will get clarification from the store owner.

#57 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-20 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

If this is truly the case and there was no theft, nothing the police have said or will say can be accepted as the truth.

#58 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-08-20 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

did the store owner say that Brown paid for the cigars or not?

#55 | Posted by eberly

Good question. That would be a crime if he did not pay. Has the store owner reported a crime? Will he testify this to the grand jury? Too bad it is not open to public so the community could get the answers to these and many other questions it needs.

Oh well...Let the beatings continue until morale improves!

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:


". Has the store owner reported a crime?"

Yes. It's in the police report as told by the clerk.

"Will he testify this to the grand jury?"
Doubt it, store was already burned down, i would think more retaliation would be a concern.

#60 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes. It's in the police report as told by the clerk.

link?

#61 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#61

Scroll up. Ben provided a few times already.

#62 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 03:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Freeman Bosley, the attorney for Dorian Johnson, who was with Brown at the time, confirmed that they had in fact entered the store and cigarillos were taken, and that Johnson had informed the FBI, DOJ, and St. Louis County Police of this fact.[45] In previous interviews, Johnson described the events of the shooting but did not mention that he and Brown had been in a convenience store just before, or that Brown had stolen anything.[45] Police Chief Jackson said that Johnson would not be charged in the alleged robbery stating that they had determined he did not steal anything or use force.[84]"

This is from wikipedia and it clearly states that Johnson's attorney admitted they "took" some cigarillos. I think the store owner is scared of what the community will do to them and lied to the media. Why would his own attorney make such a statement if it wasn't true?

#63 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-20 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a waste of a thread.

#64 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The only phone number is a cell number, and the only person saying a theft occurred does not, from reading the report, appear to be an employee. It looks like someone in the store saw something and called and the store didn't/doesn't know they were robbed, or they weren't robbed.

Did I miss something?

#43 | POSTED BY YAV

Yes.

#65 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

eah....--------. you're wrapped intensely tight on this.

Lol!

All the sleep I'm missing over this!!

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a waste of a thread.
#64 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 03:54 PM

Lol. Says the media's stooge.

Let's see.

Liquor robbery is now doubtful.

Fractured orbital is nonexistent.

Michael Brown charging the police officer was a fabrication.

All your "facts" are disappearing.

#67 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 04:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

You all know if this goes unchallenged soon the police will be going after everyone this is just an excuse to take powers away from people. Go back and see how the anti gun lobby used fear of the Black Panthers in Oakland to pass gun restrictions in the past. Remember that story about them going after each group and you saying nothing until they went after you and no one was left to say anything for you that is what is happening here. Don´t make this a right vs left issue it is about everyone. Protecting those you do not agree with or like in the long run protects everyone!

#68 | Posted by THomewood at 2014-08-20 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"All the sleep I'm missing over this!!"

that's obvious. you're in need of an intervention....

www.drudge.com

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#69

Thanks for your concern.

#70 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

#67 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 04:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Read #63 Clown. Johnson's attorney has already stated that they "took" the cigarillos.

#71 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-20 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Dalton is correct. There is no reason for the attorney for the friend of the deceased to confirm stealing the cigars. www.ksdk.com

If the store owners are now denying the theft, the more probable story is that the store owners are doing out of fear for their lives and livelihood.

#72 | Posted by censored at 2014-08-20 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#61

Scroll up. Ben provided a few times already.

#62 | Posted by salamandagator

That report you linked is less reliable than Obama's birth certificate. I see no statement from the clerk anywhere where the clerk has definitively stated that a crime had been committed and he had wished to press charges. It seems to be shaky evidence to me but I guess that is all you have.

#73 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Good god. Brown's friend Darian Johnson's attorney has admitted they stole the cigars. Can you people not read?

#74 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-20 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brown's friend Darian Johnson's attorney has admitted they stole the cigars.

There's a problem with that statement. Johnson didn't steal anything. You can clearly see in the surveillance video that Brown handed Johnson a pack of cigars, turned to reach back over the counter a second time upon which there looks like there's a struggle. Johnson then walks over to the counter and puts the pack of cigars handed to him by Brown on the counter and walks out prior to Brown.

Johnson did not commit a crime. Even more so, his actions lend credence to his credibility as a witness, IMO.

#75 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 04:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Read page 5 and 6 of the report, Donnerboy.

#76 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Johnson did not commit a crime."

"they" can't mean Brown? maybe he was unwilling to just say "him" even though it appears Johnson didn't do anything.

#77 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson did not commit a crime. Even more so, his actions lend credence to his credibility as a witness, IMO.

#75 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Johnson's credibility is shot already.

#78 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"they" can't mean Brown? maybe he was unwilling to just say "him" even though it appears Johnson didn't do anything.
#77 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm sure it was a Freudian slip. He may not have even noticed that his client didn't actually take anything.

Honest question, has Johnson been charged with anything?

#79 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's credibility is shot already.
#78 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Why?

#80 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#79

I don't know...I haven't been following all the stories on this.

#81 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I see no statement from the clerk anywhere where the clerk has definitively stated that a crime had been committed and he had wished to press charges."

Willing to press charges is checked. The statements taken give an account and one of those statements is from the clerk.

Furthermore, in what world do you think a cop who was told that the guy did pay would still go after him?
Does that make any sense to anyone?
Officer
"Mr, Clerk what did he take?"
Clerk
"Oh nothing he paid for it all"
Officer
"Well screw it, i am going after him anyways."

Yup that sounds reasonable.

#82 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

The MO police department have been cooking the facts from the moment of Michael Brown's murder.

Maybe you should wait to see the evidence. But that would break your narrative. So if it works for you, continue making a fool of yourself.

#83 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-20 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Johnson told MSNBC on 8/11 that Wilson shot Brown in the chest during the struggle at the car. Johnson recalls 'vividly' seeing Brown's blood at this point.

Johnson said he saw Wilson's second shot hit Brown in the back.

Johnson said Brown went down into a fetal position after being shot from the front. Johnson said that he could see the pain in Brown's eyes as he died like an animal.

The Brown family's medical examiner's report does not support any of these key components in Johnson's account. No close range wound, no shot in the back, went down 'stopped in his tracks' by the bullet to the brain and felt no pain.

#84 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Johnson's credibility is shot already.

#78 | Posted by DixvilleNotch

The police departments credibility is shot already, too. So if everyones credibility is shot everything is suspect.

That report is garbage under the circumstances.

#85 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close," said Johnson, who said he was within arm's reach of both Brown and the officer when the first of several shots was fired at the teen.

www.msnbc.com

"I seen the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend," he said. "He had it pointed at him and said ‘I'll shoot,' one more time."

A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.

"I seen the fire come out of the barrell," he said. "I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close."

Johnson says he was within arm's reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

"The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off," Johnson noted.

Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.

"Keep running, bro!," he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson's friend, "Big Mike," would ever say to him.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, "blam!" the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said "I don't have a gun, stop shooting!"

By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position.

Watch the msnbc video at the link for more.

#86 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson said he saw Wilson's second shot hit Brown in the back.

And now YOUR credibility is shot.

That is NOT what Johnson said.

#87 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

You watched that video already? Read the MSNBC article from 8/11, too?

#88 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

No close range wound, no shot in the back, went down 'stopped in his tracks' by the bullet to the brain and felt no pain.
#84 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

None of that discredits Johnson as a credible witness. It may disprove what he saw, but you're suggesting he's making it all up. There's no objective reason to believe he would do so. Therefore, authorities must take his account into consideration. It will be up to the DA to determine the weight of relevance tied to his statements. And ultimately, if DA chooses to use his testimony, up to the jurors (should the case be taken that far, which I doubt it will). Just as the holes in Rachel Jeantel's account of Trayvon Martin's shooting did not discredit her as a witness, Johnson's credibility is not affected by his witness testimony either.

#89 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Well screw it, i am going after him anyways."

The only reason the liquor store came up was the cops needed something to tie to Brown to make him seem like a "thug" so racists like you could celebrate his murder.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dixville ...Thanks for clarifying but Johnson would not know where Mike got shot. Only where he thought he was being shot. He could have been shot in the back of his arm if he was facing away.

#91 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 05:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#83 | POSTED BY ROBTHOMAS

Does anyone take anything this buffoon has to say seriously?

#92 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only reason the liquor store came up was the cops needed something to tie to Brown to make him seem like a "thug" so racists like you could celebrate his murder.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack

after the fact... as no statement was taken from the officer at the scene that mentions anything about the alleged robbery.

#93 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If Brown stole cigars pray tell why didn't he steal the ones he put back on the counter??

#94 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-20 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

If Brown stole cigars pray tell why didn't he steal the ones he put back on the counter??
#94 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR

He only took as many as he could fit in his pockets. Cardinal rule in thievery ;-)

#95 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"If Brown stole cigars pray tell why didn't he steal the ones he put back on the counter??"

Because he dumped most of the contents onto the floor and picked up the majority of what was in the display box. There may not have even been any left in the display box. His friend did put some back that he was handed. If they were paid for then why would he have done that?

Second there is no money that exchanged hands, nothing in the video even lends to that he paid for any. He does not take out a card or cash, there is no change and even if there had been the quantity was not defined so there was no way for him to have possibly paid.

As said it is all a red herring. It is a joke. The video, the police report, the witness's and clerk's statements, the clerks actions, Johnson's statements and logic all state that there was a robbery. This is as close as you can possibly get to an absolute fact. There is nothing here that casts any doubt on it.

#96 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"after the fact... as no statement was taken from the officer at the scene that mentions anything about the alleged robbery."

If true, this it's obvious the police dept did this to CYA for the shooting.

I really don't think it has anything to do with Sal being a racist that the Ferguson, MO police dept has to provide a cause to celebrate.

WTF does the police department get from that?

What's obviously true is that Clownshack has come so unhinged that he is swinging his "racist!!!!!" purse at everyone he can reach.

#97 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

My main interest in this story is the misinformation spread in order to slander Michael Brown.

No one has yet to answer a very simple question.

Did Michael Brown have any priors?

Eberly ---- himself when I asked him.

anyone else care to figure it out?

I can.

Michael Brown had no criminal background

#98 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because he dumped most of the contents onto the floor and picked up the majority of what was in the display box. There may not have even been any left in the display box. His friend did put some back that he was handed.

Where did you see any of that happen? In your imagination?

#99 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Where did you see any of that happen? In your imagination?"

Uh, its even in the video you posted.

Ahh, i see you did not even watch it. Well that makes a whole lot more sense, i suggest that you do so so you too can be informed.

#100 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Eberly ---- himself when I asked him."

actually, I just had too much fruit at lunch.

I really didn't know if he had a criminal background.

but you still don't care because if he had one you'd be asking everyone to ignore it.

stole cigars, didn't steal cigars, any kind of criminal background or not.....NONE OF IT MATTERS.

either that shooting was justified or it wasn't. My belief at this point is that it wasn't....but I'm waiting until we know more.

#101 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Michael Brown had no criminal background

So.

on 8/11, he woke up. went and fought a a store clerk, and a police officer, and charged the same police officer, which happened to have a gun pointed at him and had already fired a shot.

You guys and your need to lie lie lie.

Almost would be better if you admitted you were racists.

#102 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Almost would be better if you admitted you were racists."

never. I'm taking my racist secret to my grave.

:-)

#103 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

but you still don't care because if he had one you'd be asking everyone to ignore it.

Yea and if he were white he'd still be alive, so lets leave the "ifs" out of it.

In reality, he had no priors.

SO.

What happened that day to entice him to become a "thug criminal"?

#104 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's credibility is not affected by his witness testimony either.

#89 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

It's not witness testimony yet, just accounts he's giving to the media. The guy has done a few too many interviews.

Turns out Johnson was not at the scene when the police arrived. Johnson says he fled out of fear and came back later. Johnson has described two bullet wounds that don't exist, a curling up into a fetal position that didn't happen and a look in Brown's eyes that the Brown family medical examiner says simply wouldn't be there.

Turns out that Dorian Johnson was actually not at the scene when police arrived.

#105 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

never. I'm taking my racist secret to my grave.
:-)
#103 | POSTED BY EBERLY

HAHAHA!!!!!

okay, you win.

that was FF!

:)

#106 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Michael Brown had no criminal background"

The cop had no criminal background nor any complaints about him.
Same deal.

Although it could be argued that being a first offence that adrenalin would have been much higher and paranoia could have been a factor. Just a thought.

#107 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The cop had no criminal background nor any complaints about him."

It appears he shoots the complainers.....

#108 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

What that day to entice him to become a "thug criminal"?

fair point.

#109 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What happened that day to entice him to become a "thug criminal"?"

I don't know, ask his friend, he was there and admitted to it. Or is he just a racist too?

#110 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

By all means, let's challenge all the evidence.

Yesterday Clownshack was in the dark about the shot going off in the squad car:

Do you have anything linking to the account of the gun shot going off in the squad car?

#234 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK?

Today he's in the dark about the strong-arm robbery in a police report. Can't read the part where the clerk tells the cop Brown took cigars, can't see the signatures are redacted.

But he's sure you're a racist if you disagree with him. Classic.

#111 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 05:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Hey Sal,

Answer this simple question.

Why would Michael Brown behave the way he supposedly did?

--------------------------

It could be argued that Darren Wilson isn't adequately suited to be a police officer.

He never, at any point in the scenario, was in control. He was acting out of fear. He is clearly out of shape. He should know how to use his baton. He should have a taser. He should be experienced at hand to hand combat. As a POLICE OFFICER he should be able to subdue an 18 year old, or anyone, that attacks him.

You are excusing a POLICE OFFICER of negligence and murder!

This isn't fat boy Zimmerman, the wanna be. This is supposedly a POLICE OFFICER.

Too bad police officers are paid to be fat stupid worthless slobs. He should be in the gym or in training when not on patrol. Not sitting around getting fatter and stupider.

Too bad you'll make take any leap of faith to get that horrible excuse for a POLICE OFFICER off the hook.

You're just making it easier for cops to be bad at their jobs.

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

#105 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

You know for sure he hasn't been interview by authorities? I don't, but I'm sure he will. That's when it becomes evidence.

and a look in Brown's eyes that the Brown family medical examiner says simply wouldn't be there.

That's his interpretation of when he saw his friend die. Completely subjective. Why you hold this against his credibility doesn't make any sense. Again, just because his statements are full of holes doesn't mean he is not a credible witness. As you saw in Florida, a witness' statements don't have any bearing on whether the authorities or DA deem them as credible. Character and awareness at the time of the event in question determines credibility. If they can prove he was intoxicated, his statements are not credible. If his record shows a history of deviance, he is not credible. If he has a history of mental illness, he won't be viewed as credible.

Statements that don't add up to other evidence does not weigh upon determination of credibility.

#113 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know, ask his friend, he was there and admitted to it. Or is he just a racist too?
#110 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR AT 2014-08-20 05:49 PM

I don't know if anything he say is admissible.

According to Dix he's an idiot.

Plus police coercion goes a long way.

#114 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#111 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Thats right Dix.

Only you know what happened.

you've literally been spitting out media fed talking points like a trained squirrel for days now.

#115 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did Michael Brown have any priors? - Clown

Well how would we know? He just turned 18, and his juvenile records were sealed..

But asking for them via a FOIA was declined..
twitter.com

#116 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-20 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's statements and logic all state that there was a robbery.

So you all believe Johnson about this but not the statement regarding Mike getting shot from behind?

Doesn't seem all that logical to me.

#117 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Why would Michael Brown behave the way he supposedly did?"

How would i know, i was not there neither were you. I am not him and neither are you. Like i said ask his friend who confirmed the account of what happened in the store.

"He never, at any point in the scenario, was in control. He was acting out of fear. He is clearly out of shape. He should know how to use his baton. He should have a taser. He should be experienced at hand to hand combat. As a POLICE OFFICER he should be able to subdue an 18 year old, or anyone, that attacks him."

Out of shape?
Not really according to pictures of him.
images.wjla.com
So wrong again.

Batons and tasers do not guarantee the attacks cease.

He should be able to subdue someone based only on their age? Are you drunk. Brown was a huge dude. Age does not matter. If it's a big and aggressive acting guy do you just hope he is terrible at trying to hurt you? No that is just insane.

Too bad you'll make take any leap of faith to get that horrible excuse for a POLICE OFFICER off the hook."

I have made no such leap. I am not convinced it was justified. At first i believed it happened as reported in the media. But the evidence does not back that up and it looks like there is a good possibility that is was justified.

But what i have spoken to exists only in the store. I need no leaps of faith to see the obvious because i am not trying to justify irrational and emotional response as you are.

#118 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

But he's sure you're a racist if you disagree with him. Classic.
#111 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 05:54 PM

It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Just calling them as I see them.

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

He never, at any point in the scenario, was in control. - ClownShack

Interesting statement....... why would he need to be in control? If he was in control, then he would be a racist oppressor.... see how that works...

He should be experienced at hand to hand combat. As a POLICE OFFICER he should be able to subdue an 18 year old, or anyone, that attacks him. - ClownShack

He quite possibly can, but why should he have to take the risk, when someone is attacking him?

#120 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-20 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting statement....... why would he need to be in control? If he was in control, then he would be a racist oppressor.... see how that works...

No, no I don't. That's very lazy logic on your part, MACKRIS.

#121 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

So you all believe Johnson about this but not the statement regarding Mike getting shot from behind?"

I disbelieve his statement about the shot from behind because there is evidence to contradict it. I did not disbelieve him right away it took evidence.
I believe him about the robbery because there is proof that he is telling the truth.

Look at the whole picture, look at the many witnesses and the video. Then you can add in Johnson's statement and see it fits perfectly with the robbery.

#122 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know for sure he hasn't been interview by authorities? I don't, but I'm sure he will. That's when it becomes evidence.

#113 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Everything he has said so far can become evidence. Interviews, items and such become evidence when they are introduced in depositions or grand juries.

He's been interviewed now, by the Feds and possibly the cops, but of course that hasn't been released. He hadn't been interviewed yet at the time of the MSNBC piece where he was sitting with his attorney.

Interestingly, his attorney said he offered his client to testify but the police said he had fled the scene and didn't see the shooting. I haven't seen anything about this from the police, but Johnson does admit he fled. He says he was in hiding behind the third car on the street as he watched Brown run past, get shot in the back and then get shot in the face and curl up and die. He says he fled from that position when he knew Brown was dead.

It will be interesting to see if Johnson can in fact be placed at the scene at the time of the shooting.

#123 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Plus police coercion goes a long way."

And his lawyer is an incompetent idiot as well. And all the witnesses and the clerk and the video are non-existent.
Double up that tinfoil buddy.

#124 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

He quite possibly can, but why should he have to take the risk, when someone is attacking him?
#120 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Consider the alternative. The current state of affairs or the possibility of GBI. If you're not going to use nonlethal means of defense when approaching an unarmed individual, when are you supposed to use them? There's a legitimate question to be answered: why was Wilson's first move to pull his gun on an unarmed individual when he had other nonlethal means available?

#125 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Out of shape?
Not really according to pictures of him. images.wjla.com
So wrong again.

he looks completely out of shape.

And, he couldn't hold his ground agains an 18 year old. pathetic.

Batons and tasers do not guarantee the attacks cease.

If you don't know how to use them they don't. Unlike a gun, you need to be trained in the use of a baton. And hand to hand fighting. Any moron can point a gun.

Again, making excuses for a inadequately trained police officer. pathetic.

He should be able to subdue someone based only on their age? Are you drunk. Brown was a huge dude. Age does not matter. If it's a big and aggressive acting guy do you just hope he is terrible at trying to hurt you? No that is just insane.

He should be able to subdue him because he's a POLICE OFFICER! He should be trained in fighting. Size and color don't always give you an advantage.

His job is "POLICE OFFICER", he should be trained in hand to hand combat and the use of a baton.

He shouldn't be getting paid to be a coward with a gun

#126 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

It will be interesting to see if Johnson can in fact be placed at the scene at the time of the shooting.
#123 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Wow! You have no reason to believe that he did not see the event, and is completely making up EVERYTHING, based on what exactly?

In the least, his statements corroborate those statements from witnesses that he has no personal connection with. They also fit the officers statements to a degree. If he wasn't there at the time of the shooting, how could he be accurate at all.

Regardless, none of what you have pointed out discredits Johnson as a witness. My point stands.

#127 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

He never, at any point in the scenario, was in control. - ClownShack

Interesting statement....... why would he need to be in control? If he was in control, then he would be a racist oppressor.... see how that works...

What a ridiculous statement Mackris.

If Darren Wilson was good at his job, then he would have been able to take control of the situation without letting it escalate to the point of shooting Michael Brown.

He should be experienced at hand to hand combat. As a POLICE OFFICER he should be able to subdue an 18 year old, or anyone, that attacks him. - ClownShack

He quite possibly can, but why should he have to take the risk, when someone is attacking him?
#120 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Because thats the job he signed up for?

Or maybe he thought his job was to drive around in a car all day and eat fast food?

I don't know. Your call.

#128 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

why was Wilson's first move to pull his gun on an unarmed individual when he had other nonlethal means available?"

That is a situation call. Much of the time you would use non-lethal is not when you are under attack or perceived attack that could be lethal itself. But in the situation as reported by the cop you have a three hundred pound guy charging you after hitting you. You know very well that a taser may not be very effective at all. For instance for a taser to work both leads have to penetrate and stick into the person being tased and then that is still not very effective on some people especial if they are under the influence. Obviously the cop would have had no idea but would you put your life or body on the line with that gamble that the guy who is charging an armed officer is rational?

#129 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

That is a situation call.

No it's not.

Thats what a coward with no training does.

Again, you excuse him for being inept.

If being a police officer meant living off the government, with fully paid healthcare, and pension, and all you had to do was drive around eating fast food, then everyone would signing up to be a police officer.

The job entails risk. Pulling out your gun and shooting an unarmed 18 year old because you're inadequately trained is a horrible excuse.

Being inept shouldn't be inexcusable.

But keep trying Sal.

#130 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

And, he couldn't hold his ground agains an 18 year old. pathetic."

Yes, yes we all know that size and weight have nothing to do with anything. He should have just assumed that the guy was inept at fighting and that the much smaller officer could take him down without a problem. Oh but first he should have politely asked to see his ID to know if he was a person capable of fighting.

Seriously dude?

"If you don't know how to use them they don't."
Even if you know how to use them they are a lot less effective.

"He should be able to subdue him because he's a POLICE OFFICER! He should be trained in fighting. Size and color don't always give you an advantage."

So if the officer was a 125 pound woman she should have taken him on too right? Size does not matter in a fight right she is a cop and should be able to take on Andre the giant just because she has a badge right?

#131 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Being inept should be inexcusable.**

#132 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dix,

Right now on tv I'm watching Johnson's attorney give the same recounting of his account that has never changed. It isn't the one you claimed he made after recanting. The FBI interviewed Johnson for 4 hours. I'm sure they've asked every conceivable question in every conceivable way that questions can be asked and suspects can be tripped up over their stories. According to these sources, the only disputing account on record is the hearsay of the woman's call into the radio show. I repeat: The only one currently on record.

You have been here for days making up narratives that fit what you believe happened. Johnson's version is fairly convincing in its detail. His attorney spoke of his viewpoint, and he was BEHIND both Brown and Wilson during the shooting if I understood correctly. He saw and heard Wilson shoot and he recounted what he alleges Wilson said. There is no room for any subjectivity if his accounting is proven true by the ballistics and the forensic evidence. But even saying all of that, none of us will know until we know.

It's truly sad that so many people have felt the need to try and convict Mike Brown after his death without any verified facts on the table. Officer Wilson can and will be vigorously defended if and when he is charged with a crime. While I may call his actions what my eyes and mind tells me they are, it doesn't mean that exculpatory evidence won't change my mind. Many people have already convicted Brown in the court of public opinion and deemed his death sentence worthy for his criminal behavior. The only problem is that Brown hasn't and won't be charged for any crime beside what might have happened when Wilson reportedly grabbed Brown's head and shirt to detain him.

#133 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-20 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#131 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

All you're doing is making excuses for police officer to be inept at their jobs.

and IMO, if you're a 125 pound woman, you shouldn't be a police officer.

either that or deal with getting beat up.

No one forced you to become a cop.

I'd rather find another job than shoot an 18 year kid every time she feels scared.

THERE'S RISK TO BEING A COP. IT'S PART OF THE JOB.

That doesn't mean you're excused to shoot people at the drop of a hat.

#134 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Thats what a coward with no training does."

You obviously have no idea what training even means.

Look we get it you hate cops and therefore they are always evil. They must be racist, inept, cowards and out of shape to make your hate justified. But look, some of us care a bit more about rational thought and reason so we cannot share your lunacy.

#135 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow! You have no reason to believe that he did not see the event, and is completely making up EVERYTHING, based on what exactly?

#127 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

That's not what I said. I said it will be interesting if someone can place him at the scene in a position to see the shooting. He admits he fled, he says after hiding behind the third car until Brown was dead.

His lawyer says the police say he didn't see it. That's not me saying it.

Johnson describes Brown curling into a fetal position that the Brown family examiner says didn't happen. He describes watching Mike's eyes as he lay dying like an animal, which again the Brown family examiner says didn't happen. It's a weird twist, but expect the medical examiner's statements that Brown fell 'stopped in his tracks' and 'felt no pain' after the fatal shot to the brain to be used against Johnson's account whether Johnson was there or not.

Johnson says he was there. Until he wasn't there anymore. I don't know of anyone who saw him there. Do you? It's not in any story I can find.

There is nothing about this case that is straightforward.

#136 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I'd rather she find another job than shoot an 18 year kid every time she feels scared.*

#137 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

and IMO, if you're a 125 pound woman, you shouldn't be a police officer."

So you admit to being a sexist. Good first step.

"THERE'S RISK TO BEING A COP. IT'S PART OF THE JOB."
So when that risk comes to fruition you must just sit back and deal with whatever anyone want's to do to you?

#138 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Being inept should be inexcusable.**"

So at least we agree there is no excuse for your poor arguments and cognitive thought abilities.

#139 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's version is fairly convincing in its detail.

#133 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

He includes significant details that the physical evidence doesn't support.

#140 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You know very well that a taser may not be very effective at all.

That's completely circumstantial. If they are as ineffective as you suggest, they would not employ them in the field.

Obviously the cop would have had no idea but would you put your life or body on the line with that gamble that the guy who is charging an armed officer is rational?

There's no doubt that after the confrontation at the car (in the car), Brown turn and ran away, to which Wilson gave chase. He did so with his first move being straight to his pistol.

Plus, this is part of the job. We provide a lot of discretion to police officers (too much, IMO), but there's still a line of reasoning required when dealing with unarmed individuals. The officer pulled the trigger a minimum of six times because the assailant lunged at him without anything in his hands? That is excessive, IMO. If not under the current definition, than the current definition should be amended. There are far too many people capable of winding up in a situation like this, who would react in the same manner Brown did immediately prior to being shot, for this to be considered justifiable. Think of the mentally deranged.

Should Wilson be charged with a crime? No, not if a simple lunge justifiably calls for the use of deadly force under the current standard. But if that turns out to be the case, the standard needs to be changed. If it turns out to be true that Michael Brown lost his life because he called Wilson's bluff, procedures need to change.

#141 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It isn't the one you claimed he made after recanting."

I never said he recanted.

#142 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

He includes significant details that the physical evidence doesn't support.
#140 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

This happens often. All eye witness accounts are not very reliable, but they are not entirely ignored either. UNLESS a witness is not deemed credible (character issues or intoxicated), the witness' statement will be considered. The statement will not be used to determine credibility.

#143 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

You obviously have no idea what training even means.
#135 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

LOL!!

Says the guys with soiled depends.

Darren Wilson is inept at his job and you cannot stop making excuses for him.

If he was trained in hand to hand combat and the use of his baton adequately he would have been able to subdue Michael Brown with out the need of his gun.

But you are a gun nut and cannot fathom an outcome to the situation without the use of a gun.

So you make excuses for Darren Wilson's ineptitude.

And as far as training, I've been practicing martial arts since I was 11 years old. Throughout my life I have fought people of all ages and sizes and I have seen people fight others of unproportionate weight and size. Training is a lot more effective than size.

But do continue with your nonsense and excuses for ineptitude.

#144 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

"His attorney spoke of his viewpoint, and he was BEHIND both Brown and Wilson during the shooting if I understood correctly."

Johnson said he hid three cars down from the police cruiser. At 10-12' per car that would put both Wilson and Brown past Johnson at about the spot Brown fell. You would think someone would have seen him before he admittedly fled and as he fled, but neither of us knows who saw him, if the cops didn't see him. Do you?

#145 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

He describes watching Mike's eyes as he lay dying like an animal, which again the Brown family examiner says didn't happen.

How does that discredit him as a witness?

You still haven't provided any reasoning as to how he would be able to corroborate even 50% of the event as it took place if he wasn't there.

Did he get some of the details wrong? Sounds like it. But that happens often with eye witness testimony. I don't understand why you think that is decent reasoning to not consider Johnson as a credible witness. Johnson proved that he knows right from wrong when he placed the box of cigars back on the counter at the liquor store and walked out without committing a crime. That should say something about his character and credibility, but you ignore it? Because his statements do not fit exactly with the evidenced gathered?

#146 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I never said he recanted.

#142 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Well, here's the rumor that Dorian Johnson is going to recant his media statement.

theconservativetreehouse.com

POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-19 10:59 PM |

How about false accounts from key eyewitnesses, reported nationally as facts?

POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 10:58 AM

Hey -- anyone got the Over/Under on when Dorian Johnson recants his false narrative? I think the mark is tomorrow, noon. Will he recant his obviously false story before or after noon tomorrow?

POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 12:03 PM

Johnson's credibility is shot already.
POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 05:00 PM |


You are exactly what you appear to be: delusional.

#147 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-20 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

How does that discredit him as a witness?

#146 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

You're kidding, right? The guy vividly recalls Brown's dying moments, but they don't match the physical evidence.

#148 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

You would think someone would have seen him before he admittedly fled and as he fled, but neither of us knows who saw him, if the cops didn't see him. Do you?
#145 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Again, if he wasn't where he said he was, how would he have been able to corroborate even the most basic elements of Wilson's story?

#149 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

and IMO, if you're a 125 pound woman, you shouldn't be a police officer."
So you admit to being a sexist. Good first step.

LOL!!

Now you're being pathetic.

If misinterpreting what I'm saying is going to be your only basis for debate then you're sad.


"THERE'S RISK TO BEING A COP. IT'S PART OF THE JOB."

So when that risk comes to fruition you must just sit back and deal with whatever anyone want's to do to you?
#138 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR AT 2014-08-20 06:32 PM

If you (general you, not you Sal) are unable to deal with the risks that come with being a cop don't be one.

If you (again general) hire people to be cops, you (general) should be required to train them in hand to hand combat and baton use.

If you (general) think your job as a police officer is to drive around in a car all day and pull your gun out as a first response then you shouldn't become a police officer.

If you (Sal) are comfortable with inept police and think "It will never happen to me" then by all means, feel free to live in your delusion.

#150 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Where did I say he recanted, Tony?

#151 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"That's completely circumstantial. If they are as ineffective as you suggest, they would not employ them in the field."

They have their uses. Remember they can also be lethal. But its a tool for the job. You might be able to loosen that bolt with a metric socket but the 6 sided SAE pretty much guarantees that it wont just strip out.
Point is would you take that gamble with your life or body?

"Should Wilson be charged with a crime? No, not if a simple lunge justifiably calls for the use of deadly force under the current standard."

I think there is more in play then that simplification.

#152 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

If he was trained in hand to hand combat and the use of his baton adequately he would have been able to subdue Michael Brown with out the need of his gun."

So your point is that all cops should just be jet lee and be able to take on any foe regardless of size or fighting ability?

"And as far as training, I've been practicing martial arts since I was 11 years old."
Good, then you should know that one landed blow could end your life or make you unable to defend yourself. And you should also know never to underestimate the skill or training of your opponent.
Well you should but obviously based on your insane opinion you don't. You should probably ask for your money back.

#153 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 06:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're kidding, right? The guy vividly recalls Brown's dying moments, but they don't match the physical evidence.
#148 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

That does not discredit him as a witness. If you're suggesting he is making up statements, you have to provide an objective reasoning supporting such a suggestion. Which is where credibility comes in. Considering he was not under the influence at the time (that we know of or that can be proven), is not mentally ill (that we know of), and his sympathetic actions at the liquor store, there's no reason to objectively reason that he would be making up his statements. He very well could have misinterpreted what he saw, considering he just watch his friend's head get blown off (a little traumatic, don't you think? He's a human being, not a ------- camcorder). But you're not even suggesting that the kid is embellishing a little; you're inferring the kid is lying about being there entirely.

#154 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

I disbelieve his statement about the shot from behind because there is evidence to contradict it. I did not disbelieve him right away it took evidence.

I believe him about the robbery because there is proof that he is telling the truth.

The autopsy does show evidence that could support being shot from behind. One of his arms was grazed in a manner that could a come from behind. So since there is evidence that he could have been shot from behind I guess you'll believe that could have been possible he was shot at from behind now.

Prof. Parcells said a wound on Brown's right arm was "consistent with a witness statement" that Brown was first shot while facing away from Wilson, but he stressed that he and Dr. Baden could not determine conclusively the trajectories of the bullets that hit Brown -- or which direction he was moving -- when he was shot. The wounds "could be consistent with going forward or going backward," Dr. Baden said.

#155 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-20 06:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Again, if he wasn't where he said he was, how would he have been able to corroborate even the most basic elements of Wilson's story?

#149 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

I don't know how, when and where Johnson re-entered the scene beyond his statement that he fled, went home to check on his lady and his baby, and came back maybe 5 minutes later. When he did return to the scene there were many people talking about the dead body.

If Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell are really the only eyewitnesses to the shooting you would be better asking them. They were down on the street after the shooting, talking to people, as seen in video footage. Maybe Johnson decided to riff on what he heard. I don't know the circumstances that led to his initial tv interview that day, but there are already a bunch of people around and its him saying that he saw the shooting.

Maybe the police or grand jury or Feds will tell us what they have for evidence about when exactly Johnson fled the scene and what me might have been able to see.

#156 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Remember they can also be lethal. But its a tool for the job.

Now you're contradicting yourself in the line of logic you previously presented. You're suggesting that they are not effective yet also can be overly effective. Again, they would not be employed in the field if they could not be relied upon. Wilson didn't even consider a nonlethal approach even when Brown was running away from him. He went straight to the lethal method of defense when he was completely unaware of whether Brown was armed or not. If that fits the current procedures and deemed justifiable used of force, then so be it. But with that should come change. Police should be trained to consider nonlethal force first, even when their lives are in danger (to a reasonable extent - I'm mostly referring to situations where it is unclear whether an individual is unarmed or not).

Bottom line, cops are attacked by unarmed assailants every day in America, and only very rarely does it end up with the assailant shot six times. There's a reason for that.

#157 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

you're inferring the kid is lying about being there entirely.

#154 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

The police are saying he wasn't there, not me. He says he fled, from a very specific hiding place.

Neither you nor I know how to place him there beyond his saying so.

#158 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Where did I say he recanted, Tony?

Where did I say you said "he recanted"?

I didn't and you didn't. Go back and read what I wrote and what you wrote. Don't try and act as if you weren't positive Johnson had lied and was in the process of recanting. Every post proves it.

You're lower than low and I despise those who try to deny their own words and intent when you express it repeatedly.

Johnson talked to the FBI under penalty of felony for hours and his attorney just recited his story. It isn't nor ever was the one you're claiming despite obviously understandable differences over physical evidence that many could not repeat accurately when the mind wasn't preprogrammed to have photographic accuracy under both stress and duress. Professionals don't toss eyewitnesses because they don't have total recall on physical details that happened in only a few seconds and moments.

I'm done parsing the "fog of tragedy" because you refuse to acknowledge of human beings work when they aren't anticipating the need to have photographic memory of details they see both quickly and under great stress. All the evidence will be weighed and ultimately we'll find the end. But it isn't the one you're been pushing for days and it isn't one where anyone doubts that each witness thinks they saw either way.

#159 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-20 07:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

So your point is that all cops should just be jet lee and be able to take on any foe regardless of size or fighting ability?

My point is, cops should be willing to get hurt. and should know how to fight. Better than an 18 year old kid.

Fast baton to the knee and Brown would have been out.

But we are a nation living in fear of everything. Half your defense for Wilson is that he might have gotten hurt by Brown.

You'll have to excuse me for not caring about Darren Wilson possibly getting hurt.

Good, then you should know that one landed blow could end your life

Not in reality. or without extraordinary luck. again, you react out of fear. same as in the Zimmerman trail.

or make you unable to defend yourself.

Again I reassert, had Darren Wilson been adequately trained in hand to hand combat he wouldn't have had to rely on his gun.

And you should also know never to underestimate the skill or training of your opponent.

While this is true, it doesn't excuse the use of the gun. It doesn't. It falls back on fear and insecurity.

Well you should but obviously based on your insane opinion you don't. You should probably ask for your money back.
#153 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR AT 2014-08-20 06:53 PM

Blah blah blah.

let me know when you're done excusing Darren Wilson for being an inept police officer.

#160 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

If Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell are really the only eyewitnesses to the shooting you would be better asking them.

That's my point. We have no reason to believe that he is not telling the truth. Therefore, he is a credible witness.

Please recognize I am not arguing whether or not his statements fit the other evidence. My point is there's no objective reason to not deem him a credible witness. Even the fact that his statements do not add up to the other evidence.

Actions speak louder than words and his sympathetic actions at the liquor store are still flying right over your head.

#161 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

The police are saying he wasn't there, not me.
#158 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Help me out with a link to that, please?

#162 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

So since there is evidence that he could have been shot from behind I guess you'll believe that could have been possible he was shot at from behind now."

It is my understanding that forensic scientists have ruled out that possibility as did the other autopsy. And even Dr. Baden made it clear that it did not support it coming from the back but was inconclusive in his opinion.

#163 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

MODER8 would be very helpful in settling this discussion over Johnson's credibility.

Man, when you need him....

#164 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dix,
Right now on tv I'm watching Johnson's attorney give the same recounting of his account that has never changed. It isn't the one you claimed he made after recanting.

#133 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Where did I say you said "he recanted"?

I didn't ...

#159 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Tony, I believe you are sincere, but you just don't seem to have good comprehension of the written word, especially your own.

Maybe we should have a beer summit.

#165 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're suggesting that they are not effective yet also can be overly effective."

There is no contradiction. As i said the first time a gun is a far more sure way of stopping someone. It is more reliable and the results are more consistent.

"Again, they would not be employed in the field if they could not be relied upon."

Again, its a tool for the job. Should a flathead not be included in a toolkit just because sometimes you need a phillips?

#166 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

As i said the first time a gun is a far more sure way of stopping someone.

Like I said before. You're a gun nut that can't fathom any other outcome for this situation other than the use of a gun.

#167 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

MODER8 would be very helpful in settling this discussion over Johnson's credibility.
Man, when you need him....
#164 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Off somewhere, pretending to be a lawyer.

#168 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

The police are saying he wasn't there, not me.
#158 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Help me out with a link to that, please?

#162 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

It's in the middle of the MSNBC video with Johnson sitting by his lawyer. His lawyer is expressing exasperation that the police haven't taken the time to talk to Johnson. One would think the cops certainly had Johnson on their radar. Maybe they were just giving him some rope with which to hang himself.

Johnson talks about fleeing the scene in his initial tv interview at the scene and then again in the MSNBC video.

#169 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Starwman gun argument. I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the gun. That's obvious. You're getting lazy with your arguments.

Its a tool for a job that should be considered first and foremost when dealing with someone who I'd unarmed, or even when ignorant to the fact. Again, unarmed assailants attack police officers everyday in the US. Only very rarely do such incidents conclude with the assailant being shot six times. There's a reason for that.

#170 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd = is

#171 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.msnbc.com

The discussion about whether the police had spoken with Johnson yet starts at 6:28. At 6:58 the lawyer says the police indicate that Johnson ran away and was not a person that witnessed everything that was going on.

#172 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

cops should be willing to get hurt. and should know how to fight. Better than an 18 year old kid. "

So again you would just have them all assume the 6 foot 4 300lb person is incapable of fighting?
That would just be stupid.

#173 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

DIX -

I'll try to see of I can find it. Is there any indication as to how the police would no factually that he wasn't there?

#174 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're a gun nut that can't fathom any other outcome for this situation other than the use of a gun."

Call me what you will i would rather be that then one who thinks it is a good idea to always assume that your assailant is unarmed and untrained and that you will be able to overcome him regardless of size. One of those things makes a person crazy. So like i said before you should get back on your meds and temper that craziness a bit.

#175 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

gun nut that can't fathom any other outcome for this situation other than the use of a gun.

Tasers are one shot. You run the this of missing or malfunction. And if either of those happen you now in melee range of a charging assailant. It the same reason we dont bear with bowie knifes. Pepper spray is subject to many variables. Some people have a tolerance, wind can shift and you end up spraying your self, etc. You can add nonviolence, such as communication, but that was already tried and the subjects refused to walk on the sidewalk.

#176 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-20 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yea right.

Just trying to make more excuses because it didn't happen the way the protestors said and everyday more comes out.
So they are trying to cover up.

The store owner just doesn't want to be looted that's why he wont admit he was robbed. However the police officer did get a radio call on the theft that's why he stopped him.

Now we know he punched the officer before he was shot how are they going to explain that?

#177 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-08-20 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#173

If I were a cop, I'd take the risk my tazer would not be working properly and me being quick enough to go to plan B (i.e. gun), in order to save a life. Cops know when they pull trigger, they are most likely taking a life. Comound that 6x in this case.

#178 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

So again you would just have them all assume the 6 foot 4 300lb person is incapable of fighting?
That would just be stupid.
#173 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

Do you assume every 18 year old 6'4" 300lb person knows how the fight?

Giver me a break, the kid's stamina would have given out on him after 1 minute.

And yea, I believe a Police officer should be able to take out a 6'4" 300lbs person.

what do you think they should be able to do? soil themselves and shoot their guns?

Or just be inept overall?

#179 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Do you assume every 18 year old 6'4" 300lb person knows how the fight? "

No but you seem to assume that the situation does not matter.

" I believe a Police officer should be able to take out a 6'4" 300lbs person."

Okay, again admittance is a good step. Now you should just pick up a phone book and look up the nearest psychiatrist, he should be able to help you with your problems.

#180 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is there any indication as to how the police would no factually that he wasn't there?

#174 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Well, he states he fled and went home. No indication other than that.

#181 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Interestingly, every copy of the initial street scene interview I can find on short notice cuts off before or when he starts talking about running from the scene in fear for his life, and visting his lady and his baby. I have linked to a longer version of that interview several times before. I'll dig it up when I have more time.

#182 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Call me what you will i would rather be that then one who thinks it is a good idea to always assume that your assailant is unarmed and untrained and that you will be able to overcome him regardless of size. One of those things makes a person crazy. So like i said before you should get back on your meds and temper that craziness a bit.
#175 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

How much fear can one man perpetually live in?

It all boils down to you believing Darren Wilson was afraid of Michael Brown so he shot him

Thats ineptitude and inexcusable.

#183 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

The store owner actually had armed guards out the first couple of nights during the protests. AR15 and some variant of an HK. Unfortunately his store is now added to the list of stores burned/looted. It succumbed to the mob on the 4th night.

#184 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-20 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd take the risk my tazer would not be working properly and me being quick enough to go to plan B (i.e. gun), in order to save a life."

there is something called the 17ft(some say 21ft) rule. At 17ft you cannot react, draw fire and stop the assailant. If he is that far or closer you cannot beat him. If he is already at a sprint it is even further. A taser that failed would preclude you from taking additional steps so you just have to hope that you hit him, both barbs stuck in, that he is not able to overcome the shock and that he is not on drugs that would prevent it from working.

Those are a lot of hopes.

Don't get me wrong, tasers can be very useful and in a lot of situations should definitely be the first line. But if this happened the way the cop said it did then i would believe that a taser would not be the reasoned choice.

#185 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

No but you seem to assume that the situation does not matter.

What situation are you talking about? because I'm talking about the one that occurred in Ferguson, MO.

The one in which Darren Wilson decided he had to shoot first and think later.

.
Now you should just pick up a phone book and look up the nearest psychiatrist, he should be able to help you with your problems.
#180 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

good argument Sal.

.
At least you've finally stopped making excuses for Darren Wilson being inept.

#186 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

It all boils down to you believing Darren Wilson was afraid of Michael Brown so he shot him"

Well we cant all be as brave as you with your years of aerobic karate. Who is not afraid of a 6 foot 4 300lb guy charging you and who would bravely step up and (after pausing to put on your gloves and headgear) proceed to test your fighting ability against this unknown behemoth.

Seriously, you watch too many movies.

#187 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-20 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe the police were baiting Johnson into making statements that would tie him to a specific narrative -- "benchmarking" -- so that they could bring up contradictions in his interview for the police record. He gave about a half dozen or more interviews. He'd have been much better off not letting the police know what he knows through the media.

#188 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Like I said before. You're a gun nut that can't fathom any other outcome for this situation other than the use of a gun."

You called him a racist. Make up your mind, purse swinger.

#189 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

-unknown behemoth.

'50's B movie.

#190 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-20 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

You called him a racist. Make up your mind, purse swinger.
#189 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-08-20 07:40 PM

Can't he be both? Seems they go hand in hand.

And its a European Carryall.

#191 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#185 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR

Still does not explain the rarity of an unarmed assailant being shot six times after attacking an officer.

Officers are attacked everyday by unarmed assailants. When was the last time you heard of an assailant being shot six times?

#192 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is there any indication as to how far Brown got before being shot the first time? Did he flinch? Or was he already at a full sprint before Wilson pulled the trigger the first time?

#193 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well we cant all be as brave as you with your years of aerobic karate. Who is not afraid of a 6 foot 4 300lb guy charging you and who would bravely step up and (after pausing to put on your gloves and headgear) proceed to test your fighting ability against this unknown behemoth.
Seriously, you watch too many movies.
#187 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR AT 2014-08-20 07:36 PM

Again I ask, How much fear can one man perpetually live in?

Seriously, how many pairs of depends do you go through in a day?

#194 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

So Johnson is going to risk committing felony crime by lying to authorities, but he's not going to risk a petty theft misdemeanor charge by stealing cigars from the liquor store?

Interesting. Maybe it will be revealed that he is not mentally competent.

#195 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#191

Nope. Make up your mind.

#196 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-20 08:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is there any indication as to how far Brown got before being shot the first time? Did he flinch? Or was he already at a full sprint before Wilson pulled the trigger the first time?
#193 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

My guess Brown turned after Wilson fired the first shot, but he missed........ This would explain the view that someone thought he was shot in the back, but support any autopsy that indicates he was hit only in the front.

Then when Brown faced and they closed, Wilson unloaded the clip as trained when threatened.....

Did he need too? I don't know. I doubt Police are trained to look and ask .....

BANG
"Where did that shot go?"...
"Well is he hit?..."
"Is he limping?"....
"No?" ...
"Well let me shoot again"....
BANG...
"Did I hit him?"...

#197 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-20 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I doubt Police are trained

That about sums it up.

#198 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 08:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

So much bull. Brown almost beat the officer unconscious. Brown pushed the officer back into the car once the officer started to get out. Then he started to beat the officer which is why the officer had a broken eye socket. Once he could not get the officers gun He started to run off. He stops, turns around and threw up his hands says "what you going to shoot me" then charged the officer who shot him.

If the officer was black nobody would care. If Brown was white nobody would care. If Brown gave up he would be alive. If he had not attacked the officer he would be alive. He had not robbed the store he would be alive. The only one to blame for Browns death is Brown.

#199 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-20 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If no robbery took place, then how would the police have a copy of the video? Police only take copys of tapes from stores if they are doing a report for said robbery. Otherwise how would they have a copy?

#200 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-08-20 09:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is there any indication as to how far Brown got before being shot the first time? Did he flinch? Or was he already at a full sprint before Wilson pulled the trigger the first time?

#193 | Posted by rstybeach11
It has been proven a person 21 feet or closer will be able to close the distance quicker then any officer can draw a firearm. If you come charging at me, I would have pulled my gun and shot you too. You never know how far a person is going to go and you always cheat to survive a life threatening event.

#201 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-08-20 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Is there any indication as to how far Brown got before being shot the first time?"

No.

#202 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-20 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brown almost beat the officer unconscious. Brown pushed the officer back into the car once the officer started to get out. Then he started to beat the officer which is why the officer had a broken eye socket. Once he could not get the officers gun He started to run off. He stops, turns around and threw up his hands says "what you going to shoot me" then charged the officer who shot him.

It has been proven a person 21 feet or closer will be able to close the distance quicker then any officer can draw a firearm. If you come charging at me, I would have pulled my gun and shot you too. You never know how far a person is going to go and you always cheat to survive a life threatening event.

So many active imaginations and soiled pantaloons...

#203 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-20 11:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rusty and 'Notch

You've argued over witness credibility as if there is an objective criteria. There is none. It's subjective. It's up to each person reviewing a persons testimony (there ain't any yet) to judge credibility. No one opinion is definitive.

I've tried to find the Missouri state jury instruction on credibility (MAI-CR 3d 302.01) without success. I did find the recommended Eighth Circuit instruction.

In deciding what the facts are, you may have to decide what testimony you believe and what testimony you do not believe. You may believe all of what a witness said, or only part of it, or none of it. In deciding what testimony to believe, consider the witness's intelligence, the opportunity the witness had to have seen or heard the things testified about, the witness's memory, any motives that witness may have for testifying a certain way, the manner of the witness while testifying, whether that witness said something different at an earlier time,1 the general reasonableness of the testimony, and
the extent to which the testimony is consistent with any evidence that you believe. [In deciding whether or not to believe a witness, keep in mind that people sometimes hear or see things differently and sometimes forget things. You need to consider therefore whether a contradiction
is an innocent misrecollection or lapse of memory or an intentional falsehood, and that may depend on whether it has to do with an important fact or only a small detail.]
forms.lp.findlaw.com
Hope that helps.

#204 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-20 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

GoFundMe account for Support Officer Wilson is almost on par with Mike Brown Memorial fund, and only after 2 days. Those rebate Visa cards with 5$ on them really come in handy at times like these.

#205 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-20 11:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

So Johnson is going to risk committing felony crime by lying to authorities, but he's not going to risk a petty theft misdemeanor charge by stealing cigars from the liquor store?

Interesting. Maybe it will be revealed that he is not mentally competent.

#195 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Well... He does have an outstanding warrant for his arrest within a 50 mile radius of Jefferson City from a prior incident involving a false report he gave to police in a theft case a couple of years ago that nobody seems to want to drag into this.

Oh, hey. Here's an article about the warrant from a St. Louis news station today:

www.komu.com

#206 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actions speak louder than words and his sympathetic actions at the liquor store are still flying right over your head.

#161 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Not really over my head at all, Rusty. Now that you know about his prior experience with the law they might not be over yours, either.

#207 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#204 I get it, Et. Just like Crump had to do with Jeantal in the Trayvon case, he will once again find he has to go to trial with the witnesses he has, who are not necessarily the witnesses he wants.

#208 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

From the KOMU article:

According to police, Johnson lied about his name and age when talking with police about the theft. The police report said Dorian Johnson went by the name Derrick Johnson. Police said Johnson also denied stealing the package.

Police charged Johnson with making a false report. Johnson pleaded guilty to that charge in September 2012.

From another article I read the false report involved giving a false name and age to the police when questioned in a theft he denied. He said he was 16 (a minor), when in fact he wasn't. He didn't show up for his court date, so he has an outstanding warrant for giving a false report to the police.

It's hard to keep up. It helps if one wants to keep up, which I believe you do.

#209 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Is there any indication as to how far Brown got before being shot the first time?"

No.

#202 | POSTED BY REDIAL

Actually, yes. Actually it depends on whether you believe Johnson's testimony that Brown was first shot and bleeding before breaking from the tussle at the cruiser. The Brown family's medical examiner says there is no evidence of a close-range gunshot wound.

The next shot Johnson recounted that hit Brown hit him in the back just after Brown passed the car behind which Johnson says he hid. I believe it was the third car he ran past. So 30-35 feet minimum?

Johnson also says Wilson was in pursuit on foot so that he ended up face to face with Brown. It's in the MSNBC interview linked above.

#210 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

One thing is for sure Officer Wilson did not fracture his own eye socket tripping over those cigars. If Michael Brown bumrushed the officer case closed.

Of course some of the witnesses with hate for the police will be telling us how Wilson donned his KKK uniform before dragging Brown from a church and shooting him in the back of the head while on his knees begging for his life.

#211 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-08-20 11:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

MSNBC August 11th:

Brown made it past the third car. Then, "blam!" the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back.

www.msnbc.com above

#112 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

#212 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-21 12:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

I actually applauded the MSM for not using one of MBs pics from his preteen days, just as they did in the Trayvon case. But in all fairness it was hard to find a recent picture of him not throwing up gang signs...

#213 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-21 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Actually it depends on whether you believe..."

... whatever supports your pet theory.

I was referring to the fact that there is no real evidence of anything yet, other than a lot of unsubstantiated statements and media stories.

#214 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-21 12:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

I get it...

I'm sure both of you get it. But remember, there are more wallflowers than dancers in the house.

#215 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-21 12:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Here's a longer version of Darion Johnson's first interview at the scene that includes his version of when he left the scene:

youtu.be

"He [Wilson] just stood over him and he's shooting. By then I was so afraid for my life -- just, I got up and I ran as fast as I could back home to my daughter and my woman because I didn't know what was going on."

CNN has edited this part out in many versions you will find online.

#216 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-21 12:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

I was referring to the fact that there is no real evidence of anything yet, other than a lot of unsubstantiated statements and media stories.

#214 | POSTED BY REDIAL

Blood spatters and such are unknown. You would think if there was blood on the vehicle it would have been visible. Or on the street. It did rain within a day or so, if I recall.

You would think the police would have been in plain sight placing little number placards around where they found bullet casings and such. I haven't seen any reports like that.

Its a frickin cr*p mishmash.

#217 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-21 12:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

I get it...

I'm sure both of you get it. But remember, there are more wallflowers than dancers in the house.

#215 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Always good to see you get down and boogie, Et. Let me know when I'm doing it wrong, will you?

#218 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-21 12:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why a police force of 53 in a town of 20,000 people and 6 square miles?

Overkill. No pun intended.

#219 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-21 01:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

He only took as many as he could fit in his pockets. Cardinal rule in thievery ;-)

#95 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 05:30 PM | Reply | F

Vegetable pouch them

#220 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-21 06:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

#193 You don't fire one shot and wait to see what happens, fire a second, wait to see what happens, fire a third, etc.

What you do is this, you fire until the assailant is decommissioned. The officer most likely fired all the shots in rapid succession.

#221 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-21 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Did Michael Brown Pay for His Cigars?

Not that I could see, unless of course I'm supposed to believe he paid for them with an empty box of Swisher Sweets, that he had just taken from behind the counter. That's the only thing I see him putting on the counter and the clerk taking.

#222 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-08-21 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's who was with Brown has a attorney. That attorney has commented on tv that they took the cigars. His attorney admitted to the theft. Either he is the worst attorney in history or you morons are well... stupid.

#223 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-21 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did he pay for the cigars? Yes, with his life.

Beware smokers: since you engage in a practice that will kill you, you obviously don't care for your life and cops are free to kill you at their discretion.

Think of all the money they are saving us in the long run.

#224 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-21 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

That attorney has commented on tv that they took the cigars. His attorney admitted to the theft. Either he is the worst attorney in history or you morons are well... stupid.

#223 | POSTED BY DALTON

He's not a great attorney -- he's a politiican, former mayor of St. Louis.

If he was a great attorney he wouldn't be letting the media hear version after version of his clients story. He'd be finding a way to verify that Johnson had not yet fled the scene when Brown was killed and that Johnson was in a position to see the shooting.

#225 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-21 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

I grew up around many cigar smokers. My father died of Cancer because of smoking cigars for almost 40 years. Muriels. Because all of his co-workers had them in their teeth, why shouldn't he? They all were Lumbermen. There's nothing like smoking a cigar out in the woods, on a log, by a river! They were all pretty tough customers, but they all died in their forties and fifties of various complaints. Throat Cancer being a common one. It killed him too. Edie Adams killed my father. 1968 to be exact, three days after his 60th birthday. He never stopped. We were all heartbroken.

These young boys knew the dangers of smoking cigars, but they didn't envision that they would die, not from smoking them, but from stealing them/taking them/buying them, or whatever really happened before this whole tragedy unfolded.

#226 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-21 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lol, what? cops are free to kill you at their discretion? I dont hear daily reports of cops killing people for fun. I do however hear about how many peaceful protesters shot EACHOTHER in the head in three days. And teaching cops to fight 'better'... The way the system works a cop would probably be in more trouble beating someone to a pulp with a billy club. Nevermind the strategy that goes into winning a fight when youre outnumbered, you dont have time to work on one guy then move to the next, no one can fight like jason bourne in real life, moviegoers. Have any of you [...] even been in a fight? None the less someone that much bigger? Especially as a cop, im certain his best bet is to start shooting when hes having his eyesocket caved in while out-sized, out-numbered, and in unfriendly territory. Having to patrol ferguson as a white cop is probably much the same as walking around the islamic state waving the american flag. Id be willing to bet the store clerk didnt report the robbery because he knew that hed be retaliated against and its probably not the first time. I dont care what color pigment is on display, stop being ------ people. And the parents statements about how justice means the officer goes to jail or put to death means this isnt about justice. they dont give a d--- about justice, their parenting skills are called to question and immediately its blame someone else for them raising a f--- up.

#227 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-08-21 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Tony, I believe you are sincere, but you just don't seem to have good comprehension of the written word, especially your own.

#165 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-20 07:10 PM | REPLY | FLAG

He thinks writing a sentence then consulting a thesaurus to fancy up the words makes him look smart. it's fun when he just flatout uses words wrong because he didn't use the Thesaurus properly. The only difference between him and AFKABL2 is that. They're both partisan tools, proud of it, and don't care about the lives or livelihoods of anyone other than themselves unless it 'proves' their point.

#228 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-08-21 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

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