Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, August 19, 2014

While standing on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, Monday night between a crowd of demonstrators and police, CNN's Jake Tapper gave a live report expressing utter shock at the heavily armed and militarized response of the officers to a peaceful protest. "Now I want you to look at what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri, in downtown America, OK?" Tapper said. "These are armed police, with ... semi-automatic rifles, with batons, with shields, many of them dressed for combat. Now why they're doing this? I don't know. Because there is no threat going on here. None that merits this. There is none, OK? Absolutely there have been looters, absolutely over the last nine days there's been violence, but there is nothing going on on this street right now that merits this scene out of Bagram. Nothing. So if people wonder why the people of Ferguson, Missouri, are so upset, this is part of the reason. What is this? This doesn't make any sense."

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Tapper's stance on this issue is pretty wide.

#1 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

So police should be like Andy Taylor? Put on a badge and with Barney at your side, step to the front of the line, and I'm sure they'll just stop and go home.

Even in Great Britain they've created their idea of swat with 'armed response' as backup. Sad but it's not 1950 anymore.

#2 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-08-19 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Thank the war on drugs for this.

#3 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-19 09:59 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

It is called precautionary measures... smart people take them.

When you have people lobbing molotovs and a few with the gumption to bring firearms, you don't take chances and wait to get in protective gear.

How ridiculous do you have to be to understand that? One of the major forms of threat in this situation is directly against the law enforcement, so the law enforcement that has to be there to control the situation desires to be sufficiently protected for the worst possible scenario.

#4 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

They are there to remind the looting thieves they are not going to take it anymore.

#5 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2014-08-19 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Solution: Don't watch CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC.

For actual news go to a real source not these clowns.

#6 | Posted by ATaxpayer at 2014-08-19 10:09 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

They are attempting to provoke the population into more violence to justify cops needing tanks and MRAPS vs citizens.
Police state 101

#7 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2014-08-19 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

I am finding it very interesting how the lines that are being drawn up here and how the lines drawn are similar to the lines when talking about events overseas. Very similar arguments from each side.

I overheard someone at the supermarket mention that some of the St. Louis police force actually trained for this sort of situation in Israel, of all places to go! At a deep level, I find that fact pretty disturbing. Why would we want to bring in tactics from a foreign country to use for domestic situations is beyond my level of comprehension, but I don't think it can lead to anything good.

#8 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-19 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

Thank the war on drugs for this.

#3 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2014-08-19 09:59 AM | FLAG:

Kinda, but it's a narrow, recent view of things. Violent repression of protests is old hat for the US.

In the 20s, during the protests that brought unionization to the coal fields, the protesters fought law enforcement, private security, and the US army air corp whom dropped high explosives on the protesters and allegedly poison gas. 1,000,000 rounds were fired at each other during 1 battle. The US Army had to intervene to end the conflict.

In the 60s police donned similar gear to what they have now and intentionally obscured badges. They surrounded the protesters to trap them. They shot at them with buckshot, waylaid them with batons. National Guard helicopters dropped CS gas into the trapped group, so much of it the breeze caught it and badly effected the hospital near the protest site. The rifles they used then were full-size cartridge battle rifles, not light carbines police have issued nowadays.

The only significant difference over time seems to be media coverage.

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-19 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

The people protesting on that street were peaceful. Massing an army of cops dressed like soldiers in Iraq is feeding unrest, not quelling it. Tapper is right to be dumbfounded by what he's seeing.

If you think the only purpose of a cop wearing camouflage gear and heavy arms is "precautionary," explain to me how camouflage is supposed to hide a cop in front of a 7-11, KFC and Asian nail salon. They wear that stuff to intimidate. You're looking the other way while our cops transform themselves into an occupying army on American soil.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-19 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 10

The police are not there because of those demonstrating. They are there because of those destroying property and killing others.

Is Trapper really so ignorant or is he attempting to fuel the fire. Maybe someone should just slap his face while he on the air. I bet he would run the to police.

#11 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Even in Great Britain they've created their idea of swat with 'armed response' as backup.

I wouldn't use Great Britain as an example of a liberal approach to policing. Their entire country is full of surveillance cameras utilized by the authorities to snoop on the public.

#12 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-19 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#10 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-08-19 10:14 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

The past does not support your argument. When the cops were not present, the rioters and looters burned out several buildings and people were killed. So the police showed up the next night and the rioters were at it again.

The riots are happening because criminals are taking advantage of the situation. Not police presence.

#14 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Make no mistake. Do not be fooled by the opportunistic "principled" ideologues with their manufactured outrage and political pandering, (aka Dandy Paul).

Totalitarians and authoritarians love militarized everything. And they don't come more totalitarian and authoritarian than today's fake "conservative" masochists.

#15 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-08-19 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-19 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag

"The rifles they used then were full-size cartridge battle rifles, not light carbines police have issued nowadays.
The only significant difference over time seems to be media coverage."

Except of course they are issued actual military surplus full auto M4 carbines & M16s which both use 5.56 caliber ammunition, the current weapons & ammunition issued to the military.

As for media coverage of riots it's pretty extensive from the Detroit riots, through the Days of Rage, Rodney King etc. There may be more outlets to chose from than the standard national networks pre-cable but due to media conglomeration fewer actual sources.

#16 | Posted by kingcuke at 2014-08-19 10:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

When the cops were not present, the rioters and looters burned out several buildings and people were killed.

And last night when the cops were out in huge numbers, there was the most unrest yet. They are helping to create the situation and it will be used to justify their massive militarized police presence.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-19 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There are bad actors on all sides of this conflict.

#18 | Posted by visitor_ at 2014-08-19 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I went over to my big book of quotes, looked up the word "tyranny" and found this one, which seems rather prescient:

"The means of defense against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home."

James Madison wrote that some 220 years ago. He's long dead, of course, but I think he knew what he was talking about then, and if he was still alive, now.

#19 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-19 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The people protesting on that street were peaceful. Massing an army of cops dressed like soldiers in Iraq is feeding unrest, not quelling it. Tapper is right to be dumbfounded by what he's seeing. - RCade

Not sure if you remember or not but, minutes later it was mentioned there were shot fired, and someone in the crowd had a handgun.

Just because Tapper doesn't know what going on doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

But that being said, I am not sure about the strong showing without a curfew.

But the bulk of your force out of sight. And put observers all around the area you want contained.

I don't think anyone knows what to do, Police, peaceful protesters, or agitators, which is why its so HelterSkelter.

#21 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-19 10:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

It only doesn't make sense to those who haven't been paying attention to what has been going on over the last 6 years.

#22 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-08-19 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

....The bewildered liberal.
LMAO

#23 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-08-19 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Everyone "knows" all too well what to do which is the problem. Protesters "know" to hate the cops and the cops "know" to hate the protesters.

To each, every member of the other side is a potential attack waiting to happen and each side acts accordingly. Ironically, it is this self-fulfilling prophesy that creates the violence each night.

#24 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

To quote Steyn again from what I absolutely believe if the most important point from his article on the militarized police:

But the problem is that, increasingly, this is the only style of law enforcement America's police culture teaches - not only for the teeming favelas, but for the leafy suburbs and the rural backwaters and the college-town keg party, too.
Which is to say that one day, unless something changes, we will all be policed like Ferguson.

Trying to make it about police safety and stopping looting is such transparent BS. Police can where body armor and riot shields without facemasks, no names, and paramilitary camouflage. Wield batons and when necessary tear gas without enough sidearms to take on the Taliban.

Finally, what the hell is wrong with the amoral sociopathic animals I see calling for looters to be shot?!? They should definitely be arrested. No doubt. ARRESTED. They're committing a property crime. No property is worth someone's life.

The people cheering this on make me think of German Jews getting enthusiastic about the government getting down on the gays or something. This keeps up, it comes to all of us, and no one wants to live in that America.

#25 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-19 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

Totalitarians and authoritarians love militarized everything. And they don't come more totalitarian and authoritarian than today's fake "conservative" masochists.

#15 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES AT 2014-08-19 10:21 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Yeah, they are standing next to those who are protesting for "Justice". In the mean time 7 blacks were murdered within the last 3 days in the ATL.
No press conferences from those seeking "Justice". Talk about "fakes".

#26 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 10:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Is, not if. I really need to watch my autocorrect more closely when posting from the tablet. Apologize for any other such errors as well.

#27 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-19 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

The situation in Ferguson is no longer about the death, whether justified or not, of Michael Brown.

The deployment of, as several veterans pointed out, police with more military equipment than was used by our troops in Iraq & Afghanistan serves to increase tension and confrontation rather than decrease it.

Police trained in military tactics and equipped with military battle dress & weapons are no longer a police force protecting citizens but a para-military force suppressing them.
Several combat veterans have pointed out that many of the police have more military equipment than they had when patrolling in Iraq & Afghanistan.

The presence of armored vehicles and police dressed as combat soldiers with snipers scoping targets and police with weapons drawn, pointing, and often sighting on the crowd is going to escalate violence not lessen it.
The first doctrine of firearm safety is do not point your weapon unless one is acquiring a target.
Muzzled down, finger on the trigger guard until a threat is presented, not aggressively targeting the crowd.

When one sees rows of County police armed with ax handles, baseball bats, and other improvised clubs it is an image of the 60's not that of a well trained professional police force.

An area where 70% of the population is black and 90+% of the police force is white automatically creates racial tension.
Community policing works, military policing does not, instead of the police working with community leaders you have officers chanting bring it on....

I'll be very surprised if at some point Ferguson or St. Louis County officers don't open fire on the crowd they're simply that poorly trained.

mashable.com

#28 | Posted by kingcuke at 2014-08-19 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've been thinking about the media coverage of this whole situation, especially Matt Drudge, who, at least to me, doesn't seem to be really helping matters:

If you text the word "fire!" to those in a crowded theater 1500 miles away, can you get in any kind of trouble when they all start panicking and running around?

#29 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-19 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Except of course they are issued actual military surplus full auto M4 carbines & M16s which both use 5.56 caliber ammunition, the current weapons & ammunition issued to the military.

#16 | POSTED BY KINGCUKE AT 2014-08-19 10:25 AM | FLAG:

There is no "except of course". First, an M-4 is semi-auto. An M-16 is full-auto. The difference is the lower, the part that is legally defined as the firearm. It is 1 or the other.

In the protests I listed the police were using the exact same rifles as the military of the time. In the first one, they used surplus crew-served, belt-fed machine guns and rifles leftover from WW1. The rifles hit with 3 times more energy than the lightweight carbines in use now. In the second, they used surplus weapons and helicopters from Vietnam.

The police have been militarized for... 90+ years now. It is satisfying though to see people finally realize it.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-19 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fully auto M-4 Carbine video

www.google.com

#31 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Isn't this the National Guard now? Wouldn't it make perfect sense for most of their uniforms to have camouflage pattern rather than simple solid colors?

What you see here with the police and feel is over arming, IS the very reason the 2nd amendment is necessary.

If you have a problem with this kind of arming of the police, you should have a major support of the second amendment and arms like AR-15 and such. Although it is not military grade, it is close, and that is the purpose of the second amendment, to be as close as possible to the arms the authorities have over you (regarding single individual held firearms).

If you have a problem with the second amendment, you really have no right to complain about feeling helpless against the police with this armament.

#32 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Isn't this the National Guard now?

Kinda proves the National Guard is NOT the militia. A militia sides with the people. An army sides with the government.

#33 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#33 Yes it does, the National Guard of any state can be placed under the control and authority of the Federal Government, damned be the state, at the stroke of a pen.

#34 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-19 10:58 AM | Reply
"There is no "except of course". First, an M-4 is semi-auto. An M-16 is full-auto. The difference is the lower, the part that is legally defined as the firearm. It is 1 or the other."

Not, the M4 as well as the M16 are both select fire weapons and current military issue. There are civilian semi-automatic only versions of both weapons but they are neither M4s nor M16s.
Select fire weapons are, with licensed exceptions, available legally only to military and police.
The civilian semi-automatic version is an AR15A4 in Colt's catalog.
The many manufactures use similar types of designations to identify the difference between select fire versions & semi-automatic versions.
The M4 & M16 are military weapons.

Models
US Military:
R0920 Safe-Semi-Burst
R0921 Safe-Semi-Auto
International:
R0977 / NSN 1005-01-382-0953 Safe-Semi-Auto
R0979 / NSN 1005-01-231-0973 Safe-Semi Burst
www.colt.com

#35 | Posted by kingcuke at 2014-08-19 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I blame the baby boomers.

#36 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-08-19 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fully auto M-4 Carbine video
www.google.com

#31 | POSTED BY KANREI AT 2014-08-19 11:01 AM | FLAG:

That's an SBR. Cops don't get SBRs trickled down, but they could go use that trickled down lower and put a new upper on it. Differences in models with burst, auto, etc. Infantry get 16" rifles, which is an SBR with a permanately attached flash hider. I'll say I'm wrong and you can get a fully auto M4 if you really want one, but cops will likely not have full-auto on theirs if it trickled down. It will have 3 round burst instead. I'll admit it's a rather dubious distinction and 3-round is arguably superior to full-auto anyways, so lets move on.

Trickle down rifles and a few MRAPs are the tip of the iceberg. There are few restrictions on what police can buy to begin with. They are not subject to FFL like a civilian. A cop can buy any machine gun he wants, and qualify with it and use it in the line of duty at many police departments. There are police departments that bought themselves MK19 fully automatic grenade launchers, an absolutely terrifying weapon. If you need to kill a hundred taliban massed in a ravine, it's your go-to weapon. There was a Houston motorcycle officer who kept full-auto, suppressed mac-10 in his saddle bag. It was used by our Special Forces in Vietnam and about 20 other military around the world. I wouldn't have believed an officer carried one I not been at the range when he showed up for qualifying with it. If somebody wants to argue that FFL should be reformed and applied to law enforcement officers, I could probably get on board with that.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-19 11:22 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Honestly, what surprises me most is that Obama has been so reluctant to try and convince the Governor of Missouri to pull back on the militarization. I realize it is a delicate situation and issue, but I just can't believe that Obama approves of the militarization he is seeing take place on the streets of Ferguson.

#38 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-19 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

what surprises me most is that Obama has been so reluctant to try and convince the Governor of Missouri to pull back on the militarization

Obama only pulls them back if you threaten their immunity from prosecution. And then he finds a way to sneak them back in.

#39 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kinda proves the National Guard is NOT the militia. A militia sides with the people. An army sides with the government.

#33 | POSTED BY KANREI AT 2014-08-19 11:05 AM | REPLY | FLAG

Comical. The "people" want justice within the rule of law. Not justice within a mob. Understand?

#40 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 11:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

Solution: Don't watch CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC.

For actual news go to a real source not these clowns.

#6 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Just go ahead and say it. You think FOX is real news.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-19 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

The "people" want justice within the rule of law. Not justice within a mob.

Thus the protest against the police in Ferguson AKA mob justice over rule of law. Had the police followed the rule of law, a 6'4 kid would not have been shot in the top of the head by a 5'7 cop. A kid would not have defensive wounds like in his palm had the rule of law been followed rather than the thin blue line of mob justice.

Understand?

#42 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

A police presence is clearly required. However, when police present themselves as an occupying army, the law of unintended consequences takes over. It used to be that a SWAT team was only summoned under extraordinary circumstances. Now, it would appear to be primary standard operating procedure.

#43 | Posted by tiger150 at 2014-08-19 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#38 Let's not pretend that Obama has much interest in what is happening in Ferguson.

#44 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kanrei - Bull. The kid was out of control - just robbed a store - attacked the Store clerk. Attacked the officer after he told the kid to get off the street. The kid tried to take his weapon - then ran - then came back and attacked the officer. The officer shot him.

But you believe a violent thief (obvious from the store video) over a trained officer.

This lack of common sense is why we have the situation we have today in this country and why it is going to hell. When the PRESIDENT does not respect the rule of law nobody else will either. That is the only thing that keeps us from being Mexico.

#45 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-19 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

The kid was out of control - just robbed a store - attacked the Store clerk. Attacked the officer after he told the kid to get off the street. The kid tried to take his weapon - then ran - then came back and attacked the officer. The officer shot him.

So you didn't see the actual store video I take it if you say he "attacked" the store clerk.

Attacked the officer? Tried to take his gun? Really? From over 35 feet away?

How many Ferguson cops does it take to kill an unarmed suspect?

None, he fell.

#46 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Extremism, in the name of law and order, is no vice.

It is the responsibility of law enforcement to do just that. I don't care if it's a racial issue, a civil rights issue or a class issue. The rule of law must be followed. The Democrat governor doesn't possess the gravitas this situation now demands. The time has come to round up these jobless agitators and lock them away until they can be processed by the law. Only then will this nonsense stop.

#47 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-08-19 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Heur: You have got to be kidding me. Of course Obama is very interested. It is unquestionably the #1 social issue occuring in the nation at this moment, and perhaps the biggest civil rights confrontation involving black minorities during his whole presidency. That's why he has unleashed Holder in a nearly unprecedented manner to oversee a second autopsy and provide massive FBI investigative support. But ultimately this is a local and State issue, so Obama's jurisdiction is limited.

#48 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-19 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

When the PRESIDENT does not respect the rule of law nobody else will either. That is the only thing that keeps us from being Mexico.

#45 | POSTED BY FOSHAFFER AT 2014-08-19 11:41 AM

Oh, I see. This was a rant that has nothing at all to do with the events of Ferguson and instead is a chance for you to once again rail against Obama in a story that has zero to do with him.

#49 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Enforcement that goes too far and has no consequences while standing outside of and no longer part of the community are is one of the biggest reasons people are losing all respect for law and order, Foshaffer. Add in unjust law enforcement, such as destroying the lives of nonviolent drug offenders and deep economic disparity, you have a perfect storm for loss of respect for the Jack booted thugs that once represented law and order.

#50 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-19 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

So you didn't see the actual store video I take it if you say he "attacked" the store clerk.
Attacked the officer? Tried to take his gun? Really? From over 35 feet away?

#46 | POSTED BY KANREI

You're going to have to get caught up on what happened.

#51 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 11:51 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You're going to have to get caught up on what happened.

#51 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-19 11:51 AM

Gimme a link if you say I am uninformed. Correct me. Eager for it. It is how I learn.

#52 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

Read the thread Brown Shot 6 Times, All From Front

It's long, but there are lots of good links and some good back and forth.

www.drudge.com

#53 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

That thread is the best single piece I have seen on the Brown shooting.

#54 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did you read that?

Shot in the top of the head like I said.

Shot from a distance like I said.

#55 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#48 Excuse me for noticing that he isn't taking very convincing action in any direction on this issue. To busy with other things. We get trite, brief, comments and little to no action or real show of concern on the issue.

I really don't think he wants to get into it. Holder, on the other hand, he wants in badly.

#56 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flag:

When the PRESIDENT does not respect the rule of law nobody else will either. That is the only thing that keeps us from being Mexico.

#45 | POSTED BY FOSHAFFER AT 2014-08-19 11:41 AM

Seems kind of like:
If george bush can invade sovereign nations, then so can I.
-Putin

#57 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-19 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Solution: Don't watch CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC.
For actual news go to a real source not these clowns.
#6 | Posted by ATaxpayer
Just go ahead and say it. You think FOX is real news.

#41 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2014-08-19 11:32 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Yes the other "News Outlets" are more like a state media with a liberal agenda. I no longer trust the "Professional" media as they have not reported major news stories that adversely affect their partisan agendas.

#58 | Posted by ATaxpayer at 2014-08-19 12:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Did you read that?"

Read it? He vomited all over it.

The People of Ferguson are being practised on with the new toys of the police Dept. They are being used to practice crowd control. The tactics last night were very interesting to watch. It did appear that the police provoked the crowd so that they could make arrests. I also noticed that the crowd is also adapting to the police tactics.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Did you read that?
Shot in the top of the head like I said.
Shot from a distance like I said.

#55 | POSTED BY KANREI

Yes, I read that. I know you like to be careful and accurate so I referred you to the other thread.

#60 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

The People of Ferguson are being practised on with the new toys of the police Dept. They are being used to practice crowd control. The tactics last night were very interesting to watch. It did appear that the police provoked the crowd so that they could make arrests. I also noticed that the crowd is also adapting to the police tactics.

#59 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I notice from your comments in the other thread that you haven't been keeping up with the investigation into the shooting. There is a lot of reasonable doubt surrounding the 'executed jaywalker' narrative you espoused.

If you read more carefully before commenting ad hominem you would know that I don't care for the handling of the protesters and the looters. The militarized police response is a topic separate from the investigation into the facts of the shooting.

#61 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I'm not sure what the empty heads think will happen with no police presence, or minimal police presence. Do you want NRA memberships to soar? Because if the law abiding citizens feel abandoned by the police you can damn be sure they're going to take matters in to their own hands.

The police are there to maintain law and order, not worry about racial politics. Anyone that thinks this is about Michael Brown anymore is nuts. This is about smashing windows, looting, and acting like an animal.

I don't for a second believe the "peaceful" protesters can't reign in the reported dozen or so bad actors amongst them. The "peaceful" ones are enablers.

Cull the violent herd.

#62 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"acting like an animal"

oh dear....that word appears again. Clownshack is going to show up and cry an entire river on you, chair.

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-19 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12 'Their entire country is full of surveillance cameras utilized by the authorities to snoop on the public.'

So? And it's not all over, just in urban spots. In this country, we likewise put up microphones in 'sketchy' areas to quickly triangulate on gunshots. Not much diff to me.

Point is that today, even where beat cops are not armed, there is a need for more force to counter same.

#65 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-08-19 12:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The people protesting on that street were peaceful.

And you know they were going to stay that way how?

A lot of those people are pissed off black people.

They can go ghetto in an instant.

And what would you say, RCADE, if the police were there unarmed and a riot ensued? What would you say if a police officer got hurt.

#66 | Posted by boaz at 2014-08-19 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#52 'Eager for it. It is how I learn.'

So do we all. What never helps is to jump to conclusions on partial facts.

I'm waiting for the forensics. Was cop bruised? Did vic have GSR? When shot, were his arms straight up, or out forwards towards the cop? Was vic stationary, or moving? If so, in what direction? Etc etc.

If these things don't matter, you have no say in this snafu.

#67 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-08-19 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I am a big believer of talking about current events to other people while in the supermarket, at the shoe store, while I'm in line for the amusement park Tea-Cups with my grand-daughter, and that sort of thing. I was down picking up my slacks from the dry cleaner and the owner had CNN tuned in and a younger woman next to me said, "It's all just like a movie!" and then I thought for a moment: YOU KNOW? Perhaps we are all getting played and minipulated, just like a movie.

Where there are cameras there is sure to be a crowd, and where there is a crowd, there will be those who insist on trying to rise above it to get their message heard. Once that happens, you are inevitably gestating a conflict because the media will step in and, for the sake of a good story, will sort of fan the flames in every direction imaginable.

The media has played this country many times over my insignificant lifespan. And now through social media and television and radio it is once again. What is the reaction THEY are trying to provoke? What, as those smarter than me who play chess say, is the end-game?

So, going into the cleaners I felt their were two sides, but coming out I began to think there are three: The media is definitely a whole side unto its own. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

#68 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-19 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#61 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

If I'm not mistaken the "witness'" account that you have constantly been repeating and others are using as fact is from a woman who is only relaying what she claims officer Wilson (her friend) relayed to her. She was not there. She is not a witness.

It's nearly like Cheney telling reporters there are weapons of mass destructible, the reports report that, then Cheney say see there are reports of WMDs.

That being I cannot say if the account is true or not. I also was not there.

#69 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-19 01:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't call her a witness, Selfini. Just an account.

#70 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just like I'm saying this is just an account:

Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an "orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket." This comes from a source within the District Attorney's office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

#71 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes the other "News Outlets" are more like a state media with a liberal agenda. I no longer trust the "Professional" media as they have not reported major news stories that adversely affect their partisan agendas.

#58 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Right. You prefer the channel that went to court to win the right to lie to its viewers.
www.relfe.com
"During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves"

#72 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-19 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#72 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2014-08-19 01:18 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Why not wait until all the facts are out before having a public trail for officer Darren Wilson. After watching the MSM and listening to Al Sharpton you may both have to apologize for your comments and rush to judgement.

" from two local St. Louis sources police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year old Michael Brown."

.

#73 | Posted by ATaxpayer at 2014-08-19 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's called a fascist police state. If the cops served the masses, they wouldn't even be there during a peaceful protest. Even a violent protest would have limited police presence unless their function was to protect power from said masses(which is the point). Police don't serve the people. They serve power.

#74 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-08-19 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I notice from your comments in the other thread that you haven't been keeping up with the investigation into the shooting. There is a lot of reasonable doubt surrounding the 'executed jaywalker' narrative you espoused.

#61 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Yet it appears you want Donner to change his narrative because a friend of officer Wilson called in to a radio show and relayed an antidotal story. This did not come from any investigation.

#75 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-19 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Now it's a party!

Guy on news with protest sign says this is so important, he's bringing his kid(s) to see for themselves.

Oh good. And if any of them get killed, we can have have another party.

#76 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-08-19 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

I notice from your comments in the other thread that you haven't been keeping up with the investigation into the shooting. There is a lot of reasonable doubt surrounding the 'executed jaywalker' narrative you espoused.

#61 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Yet it appears you want Donner to change his narrative because a friend of officer Wilson called in to a radio show and relayed an antidotal story. This did not come from any investigation.

#75 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Got it. Like I said, it's "an account." I've mentioned the account lines up with the eyewitness account overheard on the shooting scene video. It also lines up with the Brown family's Examiner's report. I mentioned that it remains to be seen if the police will produce an actual witness to corroborate the account.

Heck, Donnerboy can stick with the 'executed jaywalker' narrative all he wants. All I said is there is a lot of reasonable doubt about it.

#77 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why not wait until all the facts are out before having a public trail for officer Darren Wilson. After watching the MSM and listening to Al Sharpton you may both have to apologize for your comments and rush to judgement.

" from two local St. Louis sources police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year old Michael Brown."

.

#73 | Posted by ATaxpayer

What rush to judgement? All I said was you prefer the most lying news source of all. I didn't say anything about the shooting.

But the last person you should listen to about police brutality are fellow police officers. Why not just ask bankers if wall street is full of greedy ------?

#78 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-19 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I overheard someone at the supermarket mention that some of the St. Louis police force actually trained for this sort of situation in Israel, of all places to go!
#8 | Posted by scalawag"

Using Herr Bush's Homeland Security agency funds, I'm sure. We don't like to pay for schools or health care for our people, but we sure have a ----- for paying anything that makes some ------------ feel safer.

#79 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-08-19 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

As far as protecting the integrity of their potential witnesses' testimony the police are doing a much better job than Crump.

#80 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

REPORT IN a few moments ago....waiting on confirmation..

DEMOCRAT VOTER REGISTRATION BOOTH ...

allegedly DEMS ARE USING this 'crisis' to register democrats !

NEVER let a crisis go to waste !!!

#81 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

#77 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

I do feel the 'executed jaywalker' is too simplistic.

#82 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-19 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"REPORT IN a few moments ago....waiting on confirmation.."

Good to know someone is keeping an eye on the Tea Party's teletype machine.

#83 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-19 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

NEVER let a crisis go to waste !!!

'In every crisis there is an opportunity'

That's business and politics 101, you old goon.

www.goodreads.com

I guess being a band teacher has no real world application.

#84 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-08-19 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The confrontation was not created by the police; the confrontation was created by the people who charged the police. Gentlemen, let's get the thing straight, once and for all. The policeman isn't there to create disorder; the policeman is there to preserve disorder."
Mayor Richard J. Daley 1968 Democratic National Convention.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it without a sense of ironic futility."
Errol Morris

#85 | Posted by kingcuke at 2014-08-19 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I do feel the 'executed jaywalker' is too simplistic.

Occam's razor.

Racist Cop in MO shoots black "thug" for walking down the street and resisting arrest.

everything else since that moment has been created by the MO police department.

Michael Brown, another man guilty of being black in America.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

The people protesting on that street were peaceful.
And you know they were going to stay that way how?
A lot of those people are pissed off black people.
They can go ghetto in an instant.
And what would you say, RCADE, if the police were there unarmed and a riot ensued? What would you say if a police officer got hurt.
#66 | Posted by boaz

"Go ghetto" you say?
They're going to break away from the protest to put large rims on their vehicles?
Why would that be a bad thing?

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

A lot of those people are pissed off black people. They can go ghetto in an instant.

You engage in too many rabidly negative stereotypes about black people. Tapper said the protest was peaceful. It was before the curfew by several hours. I see no reason to fear that the skin color of people exercising their First Amendment rights makes it necessary for the police to treat them like insurgents in Fallujah.

#88 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-19 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Yes. But you forget how much Boaz fears and hates black people.

He's a real life Nathan Bigsby.

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

#90 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

umm like jake, um like the rioting doesnt make sense....um k?

#91 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-19 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was before the curfew by several hours. I see no reason to fear that the skin color of people exercising their First Amendment rights makes it necessary for the police to treat them like insurgents in Fallujah.

#88 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-08-19 02:58 PM | FLAG:

Exactly. A few peace officers (remember that term?) on the street with reserves available should be enough during the day. I can understand curfews given the issues of looting and violence among those who are interested in crime more than protest under cover of dark, but that is not only a separate issue - it is likely an issue exacerbated by an inflammatory militarized police presence escalating rather than calming the protests.

I am finding the government closing ranks over this incident and military response far more troubling than an officer apparently killing a person in anger/panic seconds after he was out of danger. Far more. One is investigatable, understandable, possibly excusable, though still a problem. The other is an entire government system out of control.

#92 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-19 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I notice from your comments in the other thread that you haven't been keeping up with the investigation into the shooting. There is a lot of reasonable doubt surrounding the 'executed jaywalker' narrative you espoused.

If you read more carefully before commenting ad hominem you would know that I don't care for the handling of the protesters and the looters. The militarized police response is a topic separate from the investigation into the facts of the shooting.

#61 | Posted by DixvilleNotch

For someone claiming to be all read up on this subject you seem to have missed a very important detail

The Police Chief Police Chief Tom Jackson has personally said that the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown was not aware that the unarmed 18-year-old was accused of robbing a convenience store just minutes before the shooting.

Jackson said that "the initial contact with Brown was not related to the robbery." Jackson also clarified that Darren Wilson, the officer who shot and killed Brown, wasn't even responding to a call about the robbery as initially reported. Wilson instead stopped Brown because he was jaywalking.

I actually thought this fact was not in dispute because the Police Chief made this statement to reporters and has not changed this as far as I am aware.

www.cnn.com

#93 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Donnerboy -- The Chief clarified in an interview with the St. Louis Dispatch later that same day that Wilson was aware of the robbery prior to the initial contact. Wilson noticed the cigars Brown was carrying during the stop.

I'll get you the link in a moment.

#94 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ferguson officer realized during encounter that Michael Brown might be suspect in robbery, chief says

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

www.stltoday.com

The passage I cited is about 3/4 of the way down the page.

#95 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jackson later told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that, after the initial stop, Wilson realized Brown could be the suspect of the robbery when he spotted the potentially stolen cigars in Brown's hand.

AFTER the initial stop? So he WAS stopped for jaywalking and sometime between the point where the officer yelled at them and told the pair to get out of the street and the time slammed them with his car door and he shot (once inside his own car) and then shot Mike Brown to death he "realized" Brown could be a suspect in a robbery?

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're starting to get it, but not quite.

#97 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

It didn't really matter if the officer knew about the shoplifting or not. I know the right-wing race paranoia code word du jour is "strong arm robbery," but whatever. It doesn't matter. About as serious as jaywalking. Neither are capital offenses, so bringing it up again and again does nothing to address the situation. All evidence points to a most likely situation of 18 year old idiot thinks he may be in trouble for shoplifting, tussles with cop, can't get his weapon, and runs. Cop gets out of car shooting and missing, kids freaks out, turns to surrender, and gets executed. They're both in the wrong. The kid is dead, the cop, who knows? It needs investigated more. But he most likely overstepped. It's just a question of how far.

The bigger issue for all of society though is the systemic overreaction occurring. That and the concurrent police militarization are clearly out of control and an issue to all of us.

#98 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-19 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

So he WAS pulled over for jaywalking and sometime later the officer "realized" he might be a suspect in a robbery. No way to determine when that "realization" occurred is there? The devil is always in the details. As usual.

Was it already after the whole incident was already over and and Mike Brown was laying in a pool of blood that they found the cigars laying there that they "realized" he was a suspect in a robbery or did the officer really spot those cigars and proceed to act accordingly? If so why did they say that right up front?

After all the Police Chief did have to clarify his clarification and it was amazing how fast they got that store video into the public domain right after that statement.

You see honesty and transparency between the police and the community would have eliminated all these confusing aspects of the story and the chips would then fall where they may.

But, that is not how it worked out is it?

#99 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

If so why did they NOT say that right up front?

#100 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

How exactly the altercation began isn't clear, beyond Dorian Johnson's account that Wilson must have been frustrated when he tried to open the cruiser door and it ricocheted off Brown and bounced back to him. Johnson says Wilson then reached out the window and grabbed Brown by the neck. This strikes me as unreasonable given that Brown is 6'4". After wrestling Brown by the neck, Johnson says Wilson tried to pull Brown into the car by the arm.

The other known eyewitnesses begin their accounts at some point during the ensuing struggle at the vehicle window. The cops say Brown went for Wilson's weapon, an action that is a serious felony in Missouri. Johnson says Wilson just pulled out his gun and shot Brown at the same moment he said he was going to shoot. Johnson says Brown was shot and bleeding when he broke free and ran. The Baden medical examination found no evidence on Brown's body that any of the wounds were from close range. Two other eyewitnesses (Crenshaw and Mitchell) corroborate a shot going off during the struggle, as does the police account (to the extent there is a police account).

The police had reported that Wilson was treated for facial swelling and released from the hospital. A recent leak from 'police sources' suggests that Wilson sustain a broken orbital bone in the fight.

Brown fled on foot for about 30-35 feet from the vehicle. Wilson shot, but did not hit Brown in the back. Crenshaw, Mitchell and Johnson say Brown's body twitched as if he was hit in the back, Brown turned put his hands up and said don't shoot, but Wilson shot, many times.

A bystander at the scene is overheard describing the shooting differently -- that Wilson had pursued on foot, and that Brown turned back to confront Wilson. This account has Brown charging as Wilson shoots and Brown 'kept coming.' A reporter for the St. Louis Dispatch has leaked that the police have up to a dozen eyewitnesses to corroborate the Brown bullrush account. While the shots were not fired from close enough to leave burn marks on Brown's body, the bullrush account has Brown falling dead within close proximity of Wilson.

These are the dueling accounts as I understand them. At this point, it will come down to dueling witnesses, if in fact the police do have witnesses that support the bullrush account. Perhaps there are eyewitnesses we don't know about yet with different accounts. Perhaps someone witnessed the beginning of the stop, including the beginning of the altercation at the car.

I don't blame people for not knowing these details, as the stories have been hard to find, from disparate sources at disparate times. Folks shouldn't be quick to rush to judgment in this case.

BTW, the looters are completely out of line.

#101 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If so why did they NOT say that right up front?

#100 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I don't know. The shooting scene was very emotionally charged. Dorian Johnson, Brown's companion at both the shooting and the strong-arm robbery, gave the 'executed jaywalker' account and CNN ran with it, along with the Crenshaw and Mitchell accounts. The police don't seem to have been ready/capable to deal with a huge backlash. Whatever version the police tried to tell got lost among the juicier stories.

The state of Missouri and the DOJ got involved quickly and that has hampered the release of information as well.

Many people expect that the police would be issuing an immediate report laying out all the details to support their case, but even in the best of circumstances that would not happen in a matter of days. In balancing between keeping the peace and building their case for maximum defensibility, keeping the peace quickly lost out.

#102 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

In another thread I posted a link to a local story in which a Deputy Sheriff shot and killed an 18 year-old girl who was wielding a knife. The DA's investigation took 8 weeks to clear the Deputy. The Deputy killed the girl in June and the announcement that he wouldn't face charges just came out a couple days ago.

#103 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

After all the Police Chief did have to clarify his clarification and it was amazing how fast they got that store video into the public domain right after that statement.
You see honesty and transparency between the police and the community would have eliminated all these confusing aspects of the story and the chips would then fall where they may.
But, that is not how it worked out is it?

#99 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

In releasing the video of the strong-arm robbery, the Chief noted that the DOJ did not want him to release it. The Chief cited Freedom of Information requests in his decision to release.

One can only guess what kind of bureaucratic clarsterfark this is behind the scenes.

#104 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

In releasing the video of the strong-arm robbery, the Chief noted that the DOJ did not want him to release it. The Chief cited Freedom of Information requests in his decision to release.

Except he did not release it all. Only the part that incriminated Mike Brown. Interesting?

And why cite the Freedom of Information Act for this but refuse to say how many shots were fired?

Each thing they do only raises more questions.

#105 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

#105

They are trying to save the bacon of one of their own.

#106 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-19 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Except he did not release it all. Only the part that incriminated Mike Brown. Interesting?

#105 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

It was part of a police report responding to the 911 call at the store that reported 'stealing in progress.' Since Brown robbed the store he was incriminated in the report. That's how it goes. Lots of detail in the later pages of the report:

i2.cdn.turner.com

#107 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 06:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

At this point the facts of the case aren't even relevant. What matters if the police state that has purposely escalated what was a peaceful protest using tactics that have been just short of unloading live rounds into them. A kinder gentler fascism.

#108 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-08-19 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

What doesn;t make sense? Heavily armed riot cops do tend to make people realize rioting may not be as easy as it was three days ago.

#109 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-08-19 09:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

And what would you say, RCADE, if the police were there unarmed and a riot ensued?

There are lightyears of degrees between unarmed and the militarized morons we see in picture after picture.

Try again.

What would you say if a police officer got hurt.

That sucks, but it's part of the job. Don't sign the dotted line if you're too scar'd to do your job.

#110 | Posted by jpw at 2014-08-20 03:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

I am finding the government closing ranks over this incident and military response far more troubling than an officer apparently killing a person in anger/panic seconds after he was out of danger. Far more. One is investigatable, understandable, possibly excusable, though still a problem. The other is an entire government system out of control.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

As bad as the initial incident was (and now it will likely never get properly investigated), the revealing of our militarized police force is disturbing. More so because this will likely only serve to entrench it in the eyes of those pushing it.

#111 | Posted by jpw at 2014-08-20 03:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

So now we're saying the protests and looting weren't sparked and fueled by reports the police shot Brown in the back?

The only people that I've heard say he was shot in the back are on this thread or clips from Fox News.

#440 | Posted by YAV

From the 8/10 St. Louis Dispatch:

She then said she saw the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots hit Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said. She complied with a request that she give photos of the scene to authorities.

www.stltoday.com

USA Today on August 12th that Brown was shot in the back:

"According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised."

www.usatoday.com

MSNBC August 11th:

Brown made it past the third car. Then, "blam!" the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back.

www.msnbc.com

#112 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

#113 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

This aggression will stop when the rest of the people get up and stop it.

#114 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-08-20 10:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

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