Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, August 18, 2014

Charles Blow: The community is struggling to find its way back to normalcy, but it would behoove us to dig a bit deeper into the underlying frustrations that cause a place like Ferguson to erupt in the first place and explore the untenable nature of our normal. Yes, there are the disturbingly repetitive and eerily similar circumstances of many cases of unarmed black people being killed by police officers. This reinforces black people's beliefs -- supportable by actual data -- that blacks are treated less fairly by the police. But I submit that this is bigger than that.

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The discussion about issues in the black community too often revolves around a false choice: systemic racial bias or poor personal choices. In fact, these factors are interwoven like the fingers of clasped hands. People make choices within the context of their circumstances and those circumstances are affected -- sometimes severely -- by bias.

These biases do material damage as well as help breed a sense of disenfranchisement and despair, which in turn can have a depressive effect on aspiration and motivation. This all feeds back on itself.

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The same could be said of poor whites in Appalachia stuck in the poverty cycle of hootin'n'hollerin, moonshining, and slack-jawing. There's no way to clean up thems pigs and present them to society as-is.

They have to decide they're sick of it and leave for something better.

The problem is they feel stuck or don't know what to do. Another problem is many are too immature to do anything about it until its far too late in life, have too many convictions, and a half dozen baby-mommas.

#1 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-18 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why don't lootings and riots happen in the poor white neighborhoods? There are more poor whites than poor blacks. So, why aren't whites looting, rioting, and acting the fool?

Maybe the news crews are racist and simply don't cover such events...

#2 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

The same could be said of poor whites in Appalachia stuck in the poverty cycle of hootin'n'hollerin, moonshining, and slack-jawing. There's no way to clean up thems pigs and present them to society as-is.
#1 | POSTED BY DEADSPIN

There's one thing that the poor whites in Appalachia have going for them that significantly distinguishes them from blacks: they are white. And therefor, their communities are not subjected to the same detrimental effects of systemic racism (within the CJS) commonly associated with nonwhite communities.

#3 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There are more poor whites than poor blacks. So, why aren't whites looting, rioting, and acting the fool?

Possibly because white communities are not subjected to disproportionate policing and scrutiny by police and other law enforcement. The Drug War has developed a strong sense of antipathy and distrust within many nonwhite communities towards law enforcement.

The L.A. riots were a symptom of this antipathy and distrust. Ferguson, MO is another example, IMO.

#4 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

White people, of which I am one, have always felt they have a recourse in the laws and law enforcement apparatus of this country.

Black people, of which I am not one, through my observation, by and large, do not feel they have an outlet for justice. So they, when comes along a situation that allows their simmering feelings boil over, rage.

And there are historical examples along the way over the past 100 years to reinforce that viewpoint. We all might tend to say that its water under the bridge and it was along time ago and ask why they can't just forget about it and move on? But we misunderestimate the power of the longevity of the oppression their race suffered in this country.

#5 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-18 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

When was the last time a young black man was shot in Ferguson by the police?

Where are the riots and outrage in Chicago where killings are numerous and weekly?

You wonder why LEO is trigger happy? Look at how many people gave them the finger and defied the curfew for the sole reason of causing trouble, never once meaning to be part of the solution.

There are a few of you so ready to jump to the conclusion the cop was at fault. But daily things, FACTS, are presented, and all of as sudden doubt kicks in as to the innocence of the officer lending more to the guilty of Mark.

#6 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2014-08-18 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

But we misunderestimate the power of the longevity of the oppression their race suffered in this country.
#5 | POSTED BY SCALAWAG

The longevity, yes. As well as the racist sentiments still present within the current system. The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness explains this notion thoroughly and convincingly. In fact, when the author, Michelle Alexander first started her research that became the aforementioned book, her initial hypothesis was that the current system was ultimately fair, balanced, and not determinable based upon race. The evidence she found disproved her initial hypothesis in a truly shocking manner. There's a reason she labeled this current era The New Jim Crow, because her research proves the label fits accordingly.

#7 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There are a few of you so ready to jump to the conclusion the cop was at fault. But daily things, FACTS, are presented, and all of as sudden doubt kicks in as to the innocence of the officer lending more to the guilty of Mark.
#6 | POSTED BY GRACIEAMAZED

Please name them. If you're going to make accusations, have the balls to identify who you're talking about.

Because from my perspective, nobody here has come to any such conclusion.

Are you conversing with the wall? Or is it, in actuality, the mirror?

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

This reinforces black people's beliefs -- supportable by actual data -- that blacks are treated less fairly by the police.

You want the data? I have plenty of it sitting on my bookshelf. If you're asking yourself "Why is it only blacks that react in this way?" you sorely need to educate yourself regarding the plight of nonwhite communities caused by the systemically racist CJS. I'm not saying it's a worthwhile justification, but I am saying it's a good place to start your consideration of their feelings, if that's truly something people are interested in. Unfortunately, however, many here on the DR will use the actions of a few in Ferguson to solidify their naive (and insincere) perspective of an entire race.

#9 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2014-08-18 04:38 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Compare the murder rates in areas of poverty. The black culture does not value life/family. Whites, even poor ones, do value life/family. Case closed. Except to apologists.

#10 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-18 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"white communities are not subjected to disproportionate policing and scrutiny by police and other law enforcement."

which explains protesting and even rioting in urban cities when something like what happened in Ferguson occurs.

But how does it explain the rate at which black people shoot each other?

blacks shoot each other more often because of the police?

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Perhaps the poor white communities aren't plagued by violence and thievery? Or if they are, they never call the cops.

Otherwise, why wouldn't police patrol those neighborhoods and arrest the perpetrators?

#12 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Blacks commit 38.2% of rapes in America, according to the FBI. Is this due to poverty, or racism?

Blacks also commit 53% of violent crime.

This is part of the reason why predominately black neighbourhoods are more heavily policed than white neighbourhoods.

And that explains why blacks are stopped more frequently than whites, and so end up in jail more often in the War of Drugs.

Give the police some credit for doing their jobs.

#13 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-18 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is this due to poverty, or racism?

Violent crime can be a symptom mental illness. Higher rates of blacks enter our prison system than any other race. Research has PROVEN the prison experience to not only be delegitimizing and mentally traumatizing, but criminalizing. The more people of a certain group you put into prison for nonviolent offenses (see drug crimes), the more people of that certain group you will have reentering their communities suffering from mental trauma and a heightened disposition to violent crime.

This is part of the reason why predominately black neighbourhoods are more heavily policed than white neighbourhoods.

It's a chicken vs. the egg debate. Research has shown that the heightened levels of violent crime coincided with the heightened levels of mass incarceration of certain groups. Poor, urban communities were being policed and scrutinized disproportionately prior to the increase in crime associated with the late 1980s and early 1990s.

And that explains why blacks are stopped more frequently than whites, and so end up in jail more often in the War of Drugs.

No it doesn't.

Give the police some credit for doing their jobs.
#13 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

It's not the cops. It's the system. The system sets the cops, and therefor our communities, up for failure. It's a despicable cycle that needs to end.

Listen to Rand Paul's message on this subject. He's on point unlike MOST politicians:

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The black culture does not value life/family. Whites, even poor ones, do value life/family. Case closed.
#10 | POSTED BY ROBTHOMAS

Naivete thy name is ROBTHOMAS.

#15 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

But how does it explain the rate at which black people shoot each other?
blacks shoot each other more often because of the police?

#11 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Young black males shoot each other more than any other segment of the population. Why? Gang warfare. Which is associated with what? Drugs.

Why are blacks more associated with drugs and gangs? Lack of alternative legitimate means for revenue generation. The lack of alternative (see opportunity) can be related to numerous factors completely out of the control of an individual. Such as zip code discrimination in employment. If you live in an area associated with crime, drugs, gangs, etc., the chances of an employer hiring you are lessoned considerably. That's just one.

Outright racism on part of employers is an easy one to consider, though to what extent has not been fully established. Studies show, however, that equally qualified black men are significantly less likely to be hired compared to white men.

You can see how between just these two variables, it could take only one or two more to truly establish a perceivably insurmountable obstacle to many who encounters them. Maybe it only takes the two. Or maybe just one.

Point being the systemic reasoning is far more logical and evidenced than the cultural reasoning.

#16 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Compare the murder rates in areas of poverty. The black culture does not value life/family. Whites, even poor ones, do value life/family. Case closed. Except to apologists.

#10 | Posted by RobThomas
so the welfare and housing rules that deny tenancy to a family if anyone in the family has a criminal record,say a young black father play no part in encouraging these men to live apart from their family?

While we are at it,is it white culture that causes Caucasians to be more likely to commit suicide by gun.If our "family life is so much healthier why are we shooting ourselves at a rate of 5 suicides per gun murder.

#17 | Posted by Scotty at 2014-08-18 11:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Look at how many people gave them the finger and defied the curfew for the sole reason of causing trouble, never once meaning to be part of the solution.

Let me guess, you probably thought the nuts at the Bundy ranch were 'fightin' for freedums!'.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2014-08-19 01:13 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Point being the systemic reasoning is far more logical and evidenced than the cultural reasoning.

#16 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Do you believe 18yo black youth has actually tried?

The culture perhaps in a self-referential way, tells them this is the situation. But they don't actually experience it themselves, there for it is not "systemic reasoning", what ever that is.

In this way it is cultural.

In the 60's AfricanAmerican committed less crime, and had less poverty.

Given your hypothesis, would you say we are more racist than the 60's?

so the welfare and housing rules that deny tenancy to a family if anyone in the family has a criminal record,say a young black father play no part in encouraging these men to live apart from their family?

So change the rules if you think that is the problem. But I don't see much effort here....

While we are at it,is it white culture that causes Caucasians to be more likely to commit suicide by gun.If our "family life is so much healthier why are we shooting ourselves at a rate of 5 suicides per gun murder.
#17 | POSTED BY SCOTTY

Pride, and depression. At onetime suicide rates were the same.
www.cdc.gov

The suicide rate for African Americans reached a high in 1990 at 12.8 suicides per 100,000 people, but immediately began to drop a year later, with an average decrease of about 0.47 each year for black males.
students.com.miami.edu

Why do you think that is? Why do you think most people commit suicide. Hint:Why did Robin Williams commit suicide. Most black males don't have a family responsibility.....
http://www.chron.com/life/mom- houston/article/72-of-black- babies-born-to-unwed-moms- data-1709669.php

#19 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-19 02:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

free university education education...and board.

#20 | Posted by ichiro at 2014-08-19 03:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

and Universal Single Payer HC.

and no drug prohibition.

#21 | Posted by ichiro at 2014-08-19 03:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Do you believe 18yo black youth has actually tried?
The culture perhaps in a self-referential way, tells them this is the situation. But they don't actually experience it themselves, there for it is not "systemic reasoning", what ever that is."

Why try when the game is rigged? The fact of the matter is, American youths of color experience the extent of their oppressions constantly: they see the treatment of their peers by police and by the white establishment. They know that their schools are crowded and underfunded and dangerous and staffed by desperate and beaten-down faculty and staff. They know that the people in their families have never known anything but oppression and poverty and that, as a result, they cannot depend on having an adult around to offer advice on what to wear to or say in a job interview or count on having a family member with enough financial stability to co-sign that loan they need to pay for school. They know that if the express any sort of dissatisfaction with this state of affairs, they will be ignored or called lazy, and if that dissatisfaction turns to anger or frustration, it will be taken by whites as a "reversion to type," proof of some racial or cultural inferiority that renders all colored participation in normal (read: white) society suspect.

Faced with this sort of situation, seeking instant gratification makes rational sense (since forestalling satisfaction won't necessarily lead to positive outcomes anyway and, indeed, is likely not to).

#22 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2014-08-19 04:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

#11 ~ "But how does it explain the rate at which black people shoot each other? blacks shoot each other more often because of the police?"

At the beginning of the Ferguson debacle, i took someone to task for sympathizing with the looters. (Today the president took them to task as well.)

Many of us remember the Civil Rights Movement. None of us has direct experience of slavery in the Old South. i will emphasize here, it was not that long ago. Blacks were taught to hate themselves and each other. The field slaves resented the house slaves, the latter felt superior. The slaves who had lighter skin because of rape: today there is almost as much animosity between light and dark Blacks, maybe more, than between Black & White. We have a long way & many generations to heal what happened in this country. (i am aware of the fact Africans were sold to slavers by Africans.)

#23 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-19 05:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

#23 ~ "...to task for sympathizing with the looters" ~ that should read "empathizing." We have a long way to go...

#24 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-19 05:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

DEADSPIN

The same CANNOT be said of poor whites in Appalachia.

If some young white punk gets shot under the same circumstances (and it happens. Somewhere out there some white punk getting arrested put up fight and got himself killed....), NO ONE is going to riot.

The blacks that are rioting, and calling for a court lynching (or just a lynching...), are modeling their behavior on 1920ish KKK members. Not a recipe for a successful life, but you sure can feel fierce....

They have become what they claim to hate. You can thank Jesse and Al and their assorted enablers.

#25 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-08-19 07:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

We all know that this is really caused by Rap Music.

#26 | Posted by shirtsbyeric at 2014-08-19 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sharpton, Jackson, et. al all stoking the fire of racism. They make their living doing that.

Blacks should run them out of town and start listening to Ben Carson.

#27 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-08-19 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

It seems like Black culture is stuck in a catch-22. The only way to change the system is to participate in it, but participating in a system you feel is unfair against you is stupid. Stories like Ferguson only seem to confirm that the system is unfair against them, so they don't feel they have a recourse other than those outside of the system,

#28 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-19 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Compare the murder rates in areas of poverty. The black culture does not value life/family. Whites, even poor ones, do value life/family. Case closed. Except to apologists.
#10 | Posted by RobThomas

Blatantly racist.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Blacks commit 38.2% of rapes in America, according to the FBI. Is this due to poverty, or racism?
Blacks also commit 53% of violent crime.
This is part of the reason why predominately black neighbourhoods are more heavily policed than white neighbourhoods.
And that explains why blacks are stopped more frequently than whites, and so end up in jail more often in the War of Drugs.
Give the police some credit for doing their jobs.
#13 | Posted by HeliumRat

Circular reasoning at its finest. Send more police to a community to make more arrests, then use those arrests to justify sending more police to a community. It makes its own gravy of racism. It's a taste that most right-wingers love, some few merely abide, but I've yet to see a right-winger outright reject it.

The FBI would never claim that blacks commit any percentage of rapes. They would at most report what percentage of rape convicts are black. I believe something like 2% of rapes result in a rapist being convicted. It's probably easier for the DA to get a conviction when the accused is poor and can't afford OJ's legal Dream Team.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

But how does it explain the rate at which black people shoot each other?
blacks shoot each other more often because of the police?
#11 | Posted by eberly

Presumably, Eberly, you don't think that explains it.
Please share with us what you do think explains it.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#31

I'm not asking because I think I know, I'm asking because I don't.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-19 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not asking because I think I know, I'm asking because I don't.
#32 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Did you find my explanation in #16 sufficient?

#33 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

so why doesnt the black community take it upon themselves to change their culture of violence and drugs? perhaps it is more sterotyping than racism? Not sure obviously, but i am tired of everything being someone else's fault.

#34 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-19 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not sure obviously, but i am tired of everything being someone else's fault.
#34 | POSTED BY SCOOTER28054

What are you to do when it IS someone else's fault? Sucks, but reality is reality (tautology, I know).

Please read #16 and get back to me.

#35 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

so why doesnt the black community take it upon themselves to change their culture of violence and drugs?
#34 | Posted by scooter28054

What would you have them do, ban handguns and legalize drugs? You can't seriously think the "black community" in a position to do either of those.

Sometimes change has to come from the top down. Like when Lincoln ended slavery. Like when Truman integrated the military. Like when the Supreme Court struck down Separate but Equal.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you have them do, ban handguns and legalize drugs? You can't seriously think the "black community" in a position to do either of those.
Sometimes change has to come from the top down. Like when Lincoln ended slavery. Like when Truman integrated the military. Like when the Supreme Court struck down Separate but Equal.

#36 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-08-19 03:52 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Just an opinion. Its likely the killings/drug dealing comes from < 5% of the community. The community could 'weed' them out pretty easily. If they asked for help doing it.

#37 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you have them do, ban handguns and legalize drugs? You can't seriously think the "black community" in a position to do either of those.

Why would you use those things as an example, instead of things like educating themselves, staying away from gangs, not having children they can't or won't help raise, staying off drugs, avoiding fights, and assuming personal responsibility for themselves? You know, things they CAN do. Oh that's right, you're the one who equates them with being animals.

#38 | Posted by cookfish at 2014-08-19 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The FBI would never claim that blacks commit any percentage of rapes.
#30 Snoofy

www.fbi.gov

You live in fantasy land, Snoofy.

#39 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 04:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The community could 'weed' them out pretty easily. If they asked for help doing it.
#37 | Posted by RobThomas

So they should take it upon themselves to change... by asking for outside help.

Are you suggesting the reason the police haven't successfully weeded out the 5% of troublesome blacks is because the black community hasn't effectively articulated a cry for help? How would asking for help change things? I don't see how it would change any law or any police policy. But apparently you do, so please explain it to me.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.fbi.gov
You live in fantasy land, Snoofy.
#39 | Posted by HeliumRat

Your link goes to "arrests." www.fbi.gov

Surely you're smart enough to understand that arrest does not mean guilt, and a lack of arrest does not mean innocence.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why would you use those things as an example, instead of things like educating themselves, staying away from gangs, not having children they can't or won't help raise, staying off drugs, avoiding fights, and assuming personal responsibility for themselves? You know, things they CAN do. Oh that's right, you're the one who equates them with being animals.
#38 | Posted by cookfish

Mostly because what you said doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
How do you "stay away from gangs" when you live in a gang area? Move? Where? How do you educate yourself when your schools are trash, when you've barely been taught English? Are you supposed to raise yourself when you are a child that your parents refuse to raise? How do you avoid being ghetto when it's all you know?

Speaking of avoiding fights, why are so many police departments asking the Pentagon for surplus military gear? It would seem I'm not the only one who equates them with being animals. Importantly, I'm not in a position to treat them as such; the police are.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

About 90% of arrests end in a conviction, so....

#43 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

About 90% of arrests end in a conviction, so....
#43 | Posted by HeliumRat

So what you're saying is you're not smart enough to understand "a lack of arrest does not mean innocence."

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

#44 Your "logic" is very tortured. You need a psychiatrist.

#45 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Here's your logic,
www.colorofcrime.com
en.wikipedia.org

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 05:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Never read it. I'm using FBI statistics. And if blacks are admitted to hospitals for 35% of drug overdoses, what does this do to "studies" showing blacks use less drugs than whites?

Do whites simply not go to the ER, or do we simply know how to "handle our high" better?

#47 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

#26 "We all know that this is really caused by Rap Music."

Don't know if this is sarcasm, but rap music is full of misogyny, murder and drugs, and many rappers have perpetrated & fallen victim to violence. And there are many examples of successful Black artists who've expressed contempt for the poor & their fans. JayZ & Beyonce fancy themselves illuminated, much elevated from (& by) the rabble.

Speaking of Illuminati, they've got their Black Witches (and intelligence agencies) stirring the pots of violence & chaos all over the world. black magic & good ol' inflammatory lies.

#48 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-19 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's another hospital statistic for you: blacks are 8 times as likely as whites to be the victim of violent crime.

Which is why we patrol black neighbourhoods more often.

#49 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

And if blacks are admitted to hospitals for 35% of drug overdoses, what does this do to "studies" showing blacks use less drugs than whites?
Do whites simply not go to the ER, or do we simply know how to "handle our high" better?
#47 | Posted by HeliumRat

Well which is it, hospital admits or ER visits?
You can't even recite your own propaganda correctly.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 06:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's another hospital statistic for you: blacks are 8 times as likely as whites to be the victim of violent crime.

It's a symptom to which there is no cultural remedy. The CJS is systemically racist and has been for a long time. You will continue to see inflated statistics such as the one you provide until severe CJS reform is implemented.

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander explains it thoroughly and convincingly. I'd suggest you read it, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

For many, some preconceived notions are held onto whether disproven or not.

#51 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 06:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you suggesting the reason the police haven't successfully weeded out the 5% of troublesome blacks is because the black community hasn't effectively articulated a cry for help? How would asking for help change things? I don't see how it would change any law or any police policy. But apparently you do, so please explain it to me.

#40 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-08-19 05:03 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Who shot who and when. Most of the time no body 'seen nuttin'. If a neighbor is dealing and you don't trust the police, go to a pastor or someone you can trust and report them.

I totally and unconditionally reject the notion the police are 'out to get blacks'. They are out to get the criminals and those that make their job hard. They do not trust those that do not trust them. Why would they?

#52 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-19 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you saying black crime rates are inflated 800%?

If CJS was that racist, Eric Holder and Obamma would have cleaned shop.

I'm talking about the total beak down and death spiral of the black family and black culture here. How can you be blind to what's happening? And it's getting worse, not better, as unemployment rises.

65% of black males where employed in the 1960's, today it's 35%. Crime rates seem to follow unemployment and out-of-wedlock birth rates.

How can you not see that?

#53 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's another hospital statistic for you: blacks are 8 times as likely as whites to be the victim of violent crime.
Which is why we patrol black neighbourhoods more often.
#49 | Posted by HeliumRat

National sample?
Inpatient, outpatient, ED?
What are the ICD code(s) in the numerator that define "victim of violent crime?"
Or is this based on chart review?

"Victim of violent crime" doesn't provide much in the way of medically relevant information to a health care practitioner. Thus I would expect inclusion of this code to be indicative of some sort of billing function or administrative purpose; not reliable data and not routinely recorded.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

65% of black males where employed in the 1960's, today it's 35%. Crime rates seem to follow unemployment and out-of-wedlock birth rates.
How can you not see that?
#53 | Posted by HeliumRat

I see it.

It's just that what I see is an economy that doesn't serve black people. Not the other way 'round.

Unemployment in Haiti has been bad for a very long time. I don't blame this on unemployed Haitians. Nor do I expect unemployed Haitians can do a whole lot on their own to markedly improve their lot in life. One of the things they could do, though, is illegally come to America. Strangely enough I wouldn't grudge them for doing that.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

#53 Here you, all the hospital statistics you need in one pdf:
www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/
bvvc.pdf

#56 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 06:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

And you can find any of this by using google. It's not a pretty sight. 51% of homicide victims handled by hospital staff where black, for instance.

#57 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-19 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If CJS was that racist, Eric Holder and Obamma would have cleaned shop.

WRONG! B. Hussein Obama has been just as bad as an offender as all eight years of Bush! PROVEN FACT! It's only been in the last few months that he has directed Holder and the DOJ to start making changes. FINALLY Congress just might back them up as well when it comes to mandatory minimum sentences.

But the data is there. Completely objective. It's sitting on my bookshelf and available elsewhere if you just look.

But again, some preconceived notions are held onto whether disproven or not.

How can you not see that?
#53 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

I do. Why you refuse to consider a system that resembles a New Jim Crow that has been built upon gradually over decades is truly beyond me. I dare you to read the information. Rand Paul has and he agrees with me. Howard Dean has and he agrees with me. Time for you to take notice as well and stop blaming a cultural problem when it is clear (when you look at the data) that the issue is systemically based.

#58 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I totally and unconditionally reject the notion the police are 'out to get blacks'.
#52 | Posted by RobThomas

Well, you're dumb then. Cops don't call black people "gorillas in the mist" as a term of endearment. en.wikipedia.org

If you need help connecting the dots between dehumanizing people and persecuting them, I refer you to the bulk of human history.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 06:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Beach,

Would you be so kind as to share the title of the book you are referring to?

You did so in the past but I lost it.

I very seriously want to put it on my reading list.

Thank you in advance.

#60 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-19 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It's obvious HELIUMRAT views Affirmative Action as an absolute success and any black without a job is simply lazy.

"50% unemployment rate for black males? In this day and age of affirmative action, THEY MUST BE LAZY! IT'S A CULTURAL PROBLEM!"

#61 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thank you in advance.
#60 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Gladly:

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Dr. Michelle Alexander.

newjimcrow.com

#62 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 06:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Instead of spending billions to subjugate the less fortunate amongst us we should spend all our efforts to make the Park nicer.

www.stuartmcmillen.com

#63 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 06:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

JeffJ,
This is also a good read.
www.newrepublic.com

Long before he became the most powerful man in the Alabama Senate, before he controlled billions of dollars in state money and had lobbyists, governors, and future presidents seeking his favor, Hank Sanders used newspapers and magazines as bathroom tissue. His mother would collect periodicals from the wealthy white family whose house she cleaned and bring them back for Sanders and his brothers and sisters. There were 13 children, all told, and they lived with their parents in a three-room shack that their father had built out of one-by-eight boards among the tall pines and chinaberry trees in Blacksher, a speck of a town 50 miles north of Mobile.

This was Alabama in the 1950s, when Jim Crow reigned and a governor's race was determined by which candidate managed to secure the endorsement of the Ku Klux Klan. Life in Baldwin County, where Blacksher was located, may have been marginally less horrid for its black residents than in other parts of the state: The county's last lynching had occurred in 1919 and some of the white men who perpetrated it had even gone to prison. But there were certain realities by which Sanders, as a black child, knew he must abide. He knew not to spend any of the money he earned picking cotton on the six-ounce bottles of Coca-Cola at the drugstore; those were only for white customers, and a black person who tried to buy one risked more than just being refused service. He also knew not to look in the direction of a white woman. The one time he did, the woman's male companion threatened to whip him, and probably would have had Sanders's mother, a strong-willed woman named Ola Mae, not intervened. For Sanders, the fact that there was no electricity or running water in his house -- to say nothing of toilet paper -- was far less distressing than the constant threat of danger.

In 1954, when Sanders was twelve, he momentarily ignored the intended purpose of a magazine his mother had brought home and instead read an article about Thurgood Marshall's work on Brown v. Board of Education. The case had no bearing on Sanders's everyday life. Baldwin County's schools were segregated and would remain defiantly so for more than a decade after his education in them. But Marshall's legal heroics wormed their way into the back of Sanders's mind, and when his seventh-grade teacher asked her students what they wanted to be when they grew up, Sanders surprised himself by saying, "A lawyer." His classmates -- whose professional aspirations tended toward farming or turpentine work -- burst out laughing. Sanders began to cry; the other kids laughed even harder, which prompted even more tears. When the episode was finally over, Sanders resolved that he would become a lawyer (still not entirely sure what one was) just to prove his classmates wrong.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-19 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks, Snoof.

I'll check it out.

#65 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-19 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't know if this is sarcasm, but rap music is full of misogyny, murder and drugs, and many rappers have perpetrated & fallen victim to violence. And there are many examples of successful Black artists who've expressed contempt for the poor & their fans. JayZ & Beyonce fancy themselves illuminated, much elevated from (& by) the rabble.
#48 | POSTED BY KENX

Yeah, you would think all those Latinos and whites would stop funding such "music." hiphopandpolitics.com

#66 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

What causes places like Ferguson to erupt?

How about false accounts from key eyewitnesses, reported nationally as facts?

#67 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hey -- anyone got the Over/Under on when Dorian Johnson recants his false narrative? I think the mark is tomorrow, noon. Will he recant his obviously false story before or after noon tomorrow?

#68 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

America on display for all to see.

#69 | Posted by fresno500 at 2014-08-20 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

The answer is simple, decades of police brutality, racial injustice including inadequate education systems and prison for anything and everything.

#70 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-08-20 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#67 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Well, that's part of it. Combine that with #51 and you've got Ferguson wrapped up with a bow.

#71 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-20 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

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