Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, August 18, 2014

Michael Brown, the unarmed black teen who was killed by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer, sparking protests around the nation, was shot at least six times, including twice in the head, a preliminary private autopsy performed on Sunday found. One of the bullets entered the top of Brown's skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family's request to conduct the separate autopsy.

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Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, Baden said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front. The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Brown's clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access.

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This confirms what the eyewitness says on this video.

www.ijreview.com

The eyewitness conversation captured on video/audio describes how Brown was fighting with the officer in the car, ran away, then turned back and charged the officer.

This eyewitness will probably end up dead.

#1 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-18 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

GSR on the clothes is a big deal. If it is not there, then it belies any argument that the shooting occurred while wrestling for the gun, or even in very close proximity. Typically, GSR shows up on a person when they are within 3 feet of a gun shot in their direction. And that is the conservative number.

And 6 shots? That is gonna be difficult for the PD to explain away. Even if this kid was a thug and a bully, 6 shots including two to the head? This cop went overboard imo.

#2 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-18 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

This eyewitness will probably end up dead.

#1 | POSTED BY ROBTHOMAS

Elements in that community seem bent on "shot in the back, then hands up in surrender."

It's gotta be fairly easy to figure out who the bumrush witness is from other scene videos. The address of the building across from him is clearly visible.

#3 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

And 6 shots? That is gonna be difficult for the PD to explain away. Even if this kid was a thug and a bully, 6 shots including two to the head? This cop went overboard imo.

#2 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2014-08-18 11:12 AM | FLAG:

Explain away? That's what they're trained to do. That's what many CHL classes teach people to do. Nobody gets a prize for having leftover ammo.

#4 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

And 6 shots? That is gonna be difficult for the PD to explain away. Even if this kid was a thug and a bully, 6 shots including two to the head? This cop went overboard imo.

#2 | POSTED BY MODER8

The 4 to the arm were not effective.

#5 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

M8, Baden, the Examiner who drew the shot diagram, states that he hasn't had access to gunpowder residue information, both for Brown's clothes and for the inside of the squad car.

#6 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ever compared that to most other nation's gun use, Sittz? It's a ridiculously irresponsible overuse of a deadly weapon that sometimes gets bystanders shot.

Especially since it w wasn't only six shots fired.

#7 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-18 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

I realize that generally speaking rightwingers are intent on justifying this cop's actions. But 6 shots including 2 to the head, apparently not fired at close range is just outrageous. I have no doubt based on the strong-arm robbery that this kid had thuggish tendencies. But this was not a death penalty situation.

#8 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-18 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Both the shots to the head entered from above (head down). The 6th shot -- Examiner says the fatal shot -- entered the top of the head. The shot into the eye went down into the jaw and collarbone indicating that it also came with the head down.

The eye shot also caused two of the wounds on the arm. It's the bullet that caused 5 wounds.

If the bullet passed through the eye, jaw and collarbone on its way to the arm, then the arm was down, no?

Arm down, hand down.

#9 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

It won't matter what the physical evidence is, anything other than this police officer going to jail is going to result in riots in the streets.


#10 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2014-08-18 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Like Baden, the Examiner, says: "We need more information."

Baden states he is not drawing conclusions at this time. Seems prudent.

#11 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

We can conclude that the "shot in the back" narrative is inaccurate.

#12 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

All we can conclude is the shot at his back missed.

#13 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-18 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Moder8. He charged at the officers. Should they stand there let him beat them up? This was not a small guy. They shot him in the arm and he kept coming- they shot him again in the arm and he kept coming. So they shot him in the head.

Why do YOU keep justify the CRIMINALS action.

As a society we need to be on the side of the law of we get the destruction we see now with the mob running around stealing anything that is not locked down. The only protection is those who exercise their 2nd amendment rights which you ALSO want to take away.

What option are you giving to those who abide by the law?

#14 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-18 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Foshaffer, I realize that rightwing sources are claiming Michael Brown was charging the officer, but that has not been verified by a single credible news source. At this point it is clear the police are closing ranks to protect one of their own. Again, MIchael Brown was in thug mode that day. And he is a very big guy. But that is no justification for 6 bullets, especially not during an actual struggle. You might try honestly asking yourself whether the bigger "criminal" in this narrative is in fact the police officer.

#15 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-18 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Didn't these police officers have taser guns?

Baton first.
Taser second.
Shoot last, always last.

#16 | Posted by scalawag at 2014-08-18 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why are you assuming the the officer of the law was not the one acting CRIMINAL?

#17 | Posted by schmanch at 2014-08-18 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

You don't shoot a man that many times unless you feel your life is in danger. The officer had every right to defend himself. Brown was a thug. He had no respect for himself, the law or society. The officer had bruises on his face from an altercation. This escalated from actions by Brown. He got what he deserved. The officer should get a commendation.

#18 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-08-18 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Why are you assuming the the officer of the law was not the one acting CRIMINAL?

#17 | POSTED BY SCHMANCH

I for one am not.

But this isn't exactly clear cut, is it?

#19 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

The open-and-shut execution narrative went out the window last Friday.

#20 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

The officer had bruises on his face from an altercation.

#18 | POSTED BY LEE_THE_AGENT AT 2014-08-18 11:47 AM | REPLY

Is there any documentation of this? If so, please provide me with a link. I've heard this mentioned several times. But, so far as I can tell, it ranks right up there with the initial "he was shot in the back" reports.

#21 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-18 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2014-08-18 11:41 AM | REPLY | FLAG

Well.

www.ijreview.com

Eyewitness captured on audio/video claiming Brown was fighting the officer in the car, then ran, then ran back at the officer.

The FBI should give this witness protection.

#22 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-18 11:54 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

It seems at this point everyone (both sides) is using the evidence to fit their pre-evidence narrative. While at first I was disturbed by the shooting, more and more I'm starting to feel this officer might have been justified. I'm continuing to try to maintain neutrality until all that can be brought to light is.

#23 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

That PCP is a helluva drug.
-James Brown

#24 | Posted by catdog at 2014-08-18 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

It seems at this point everyone (both sides) is using the evidence to fit their pre-evidence narrative.

#23 | Posted by memyselfini

There is no evidence that supports the shot-in-the-back and then executed with hands up narrative.

#25 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks Rob. Sometimes emotional waifs like Anton need to be hit with a shovel.

#26 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-08-18 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

I'm sorry, but at any point did I state there was?

#27 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

It seems implied:

"everyone (both sides) is using the evidence to fit their pre-evidence narrative."

The 'hands up' advocates don't have evidence to use.

#28 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks Rob. Sometimes emotional waifs like Anton need to be hit with a shovel.

#26 | POSTED BY LEE_THE_AGENT AT 2014-08-18 12:09 PM | REPLY

It's "emotional" to want to see evidence? OK.

#29 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-18 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Moder8 - it is not some "right wing" source saying he charged the officer. It was the audio on the video shot at the site by a eye witness. The video link has been posted many times.

You may want to continue the spin but the facts are the facts.

Holder has asked for a 3rd Autopsy because the first two prove that it was a good kill. Notice this administration is doing everything possible to support their first and wrong stance against the police.

Again...if you are going to allow the police to abandon a neighborhood and just allow people to riot...and you are not going to allow the shop owners to own weapons...what are thier options?

#30 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-18 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you want to do with that evidence, Anton? Examine it?

#31 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

#28 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Are you claiming that there are not individuals using the number of shots fired at Brown as evidence that it was excessive use of force?

#32 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL Of course we want to see the evidence. So far, the cop's story has been checking out and getting stronger.

Officer Wilson's reported 'facial swelling' will be interesting. The fact that there would be any swelling at all lends intensity to the 'tussle' at the squad car.

Evidence of the shot fired within the car will be even more significant.

#33 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you claiming that there are not individuals using the number of shots fired at Brown as evidence that it was excessive use of force?

#32 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

You're right about that.

#34 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

I really hate how issues like this become political footballs that everyone wants to eventual spike.

The lines and sides are chosen before any solid evidence come out.

#35 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Pulled this off another blog. The blogger's theory really sounds plausible as to the bullet wounds.

Cop attempted center mass, MB's dominant right arm was center-forward to assault cop receiving the first 4 shots, imagine if you will anterior to posterior multiple exit wounds of an arm thrust forward.

As he makes a sudden dash forward, cop fires and strikes the attacking arm, MB does not halt, 30-35 feet is now at least a third to one-half down, 20 to 15 feet, cop's last chance to stop him is to the head instead of center mass. MB's pants are falling each step of way during the lunge, last hit is to the top of his head. Remember also the cop is injured so his shot is off.


.

#36 | Posted by CalifChris at 2014-08-18 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

This confirms what the eyewitness says on this video.

Hardly. Baden says of the head wound, "It can be because he's giving up, or because he's charging forward at the officer."

The entry point of the gunshot to Brown's palm and forearm suggest that his arm was raised at the time. It isn't conclusive, but it does make you wonder whether he was standing with arms raised in surrender when at least some of the shots were fired, as some witnesses have claimed.

#37 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems odd that he was shot in the top of the head as that supports neither version of events.

I was reading this morning that they were judging whether he was shot at close range based on whether or not there are powder marks on the body/clothes. I always thought they could tell by the wounds.

#38 | Posted by sully at 2014-08-18 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I really hate how issues like this become political footballs that everyone wants to eventual spike.
The lines and sides are chosen before any solid evidence come out.

#35 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Many in the town of Ferguson tried to spike the football the moment Brown ended up in his end zone.

In the face of what looks like excessive celebration by 'executed jaywalker' fans, many outside of Ferguson have asked to see the replay.

I just want to see if the ruling on the field should be reversed. My only horse in this race tells me the initial protests against the cops' call were way overstated.

#39 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

just read that HOLDER has ordered a 2nd autopsy...

reason..."extraordinary circumstances'

translation....this one doesn't fit our narrative...agenda...cause...a
ttack on evil white cops who dare to defend themselves from a MAN SIZED boy who went after the cop and then did it again....

#40 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you claiming that there are not individuals using the number of shots fired at Brown as evidence that it was excessive use of force?

#32 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

libs and others want you to imagine the cop standing over his body emptying his gun into the poor little boys body...

THE FACTS as they are now coming out are that this 'poor little boy' attacked the cop...and then came at him again...at the very least, this changes that image that the left is being successful at suckering so many into seeing.

#41 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

whether or not there are powder marks on the body/clothes. I always thought they could tell by the wounds.

#38 | POSTED BY SULLY

Powder marks on the body are part of the wounds. In this case there are no powder or burn marks on the body.

Absent powder marks on the body it is still possible there is powder on the clothes.

#42 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems odd that he was shot in the top of the head as that supports neither version of events.

It appears to be the final shot. If someone is shot multiple times, he could be staggering and falling down at the point the killing shot strikes him.

#43 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you want to do with that evidence, Anton? Examine it?

#31 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-18 12:18 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It would not surprise me at all if the officer's face was bruised in the altercation with Michael Brown in the car. So far, however, I haven't seen any evidence of that. The difference between the two of us, apparently, is that you prefer to believe assertions without evidence and I don't.

#44 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-18 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Moder8, geez please stop....reading your comments one has to wonder if you are just being deliberately naive, ignorant or pandering. No way you can be serious. I know you would have put him in a Ziva David arm bar and slapped the cuffs on him....lol...

#45 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 12:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

on this subject...had interesting discussion this morning with ex fbi agent and current officer with country constable's office...

I asked him what he would do if I rushed him and the situation was similar...

Each said that the officer was well within his right to open fire,,,,and yeah yeah I know what you're gonna say...well of course they would....,but I"d take their word over sharpton or some reporter from the huffington post anytime.

and at least I was asking people that would know instead of listening to msnbc

#46 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

If there is gunshot residue on the body and in the squad car it could indicate that Brown was close to the weapon when it discharged it's first shot.

From the article:

Dr. Baden said that while Mr. Brown was shot at least six times, only three bullets were recovered from his body. But he has not yet seen the X-rays showing where the bullets were found, which would clarify the autopsy results. Nor has he had access to witness and police statements.

...

He stressed that his [current] information does not assign blame or justify the shooting.

"We need more information; for example, the police should be examining the automobile to see if there is gunshot residue in the police car," he said.

#47 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

It appears to be the final shot. If someone is shot multiple times, he could be staggering and falling down at the point the killing shot strikes him.

#43 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's possible. Very unlucky to be hit there while falling.

#48 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 12:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

#39 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Cute.

If your just a "spectator" as you claim, put the ball down and get off the field before you tazed or worse, tackled.

#49 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 12:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

What would you want to do with that evidence, Anton? Examine it?

#31 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-18 12:18 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It would not surprise me at all if the officer's face was bruised in the altercation with Michael Brown in the car. So far, however, I haven't seen any evidence of that. The difference between the two of us, apparently, is that you prefer to believe assertions without evidence and I don't.

#44 | POSTED BY ANTONLOL

Dude, that's an old joke about favorably missing evidence. "Your honor, what would we do if we had that evidence here today? Examine it?"

It's an absurd statement. I thought that was clear on its face and even clearer after I posted #33:

LOL Of course we want to see the evidence.

#33 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

My bad for being unclear.

#50 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems odd that he was shot in the top of the head as that supports neither version of events.

It appears to be the final shot. If someone is shot multiple times, he could be staggering and falling down at the point the killing shot strikes him.

#43 | POSTED BY RCADE

The shot that entered the eye came from a similar top of the head angle. That's the bullet that went from eye to jaw to collarbone to arm.

#51 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

If your just a "spectator" as you claim, put the ball down and get off the field before you tazed or worse, tackled.

#49 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

I'm clear. I'm keeping score while I watch online.

#52 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Very unlucky to be hit there while falling.

#48 | POSTED BY SULLY

And more unlucky still to be hit twice from the same angle. Almost unlucky enough to rule out 'unlucky while falling.'

#53 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I asked him what he would do if I rushed him and the situation was similar...

Each said that the officer was well within his right to open fire"

They would be afraid of YOU charging them? Worried about dying of laughter?

#54 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#41 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

No offense, but your opinion on almost anything is almost instinctively dismissed. Your online presence here is a caricature of what I despise.

We'll always have the Texans commonality though.

#55 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

And more unlucky still to be hit twice from the same angle. Almost unlucky enough to rule out 'unlucky while falling.'

#53 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well it doesn't make any sense that he was charging either. Unless you think people run while facing the ground instead of where they are going.

#56 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yep this is all confirmed by the police and unbiased witnesses that were heard before the Biased all sharp ton showed up.

He was running at the police to attack them and he was shoot in self defense after he was caught robbing a store.

Really no reason for any protest nothing illegal was done by the police.

The only illegal actions I see was him robing a store and attacking the police and his friends looting everything.

The problem is the looting criminals and these protesters that pump up the riots.

One day its gonna backfire on them.. It almost did in the Jenna 6 case. Residents were armed and ready for a riot.

#57 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-08-18 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

But that is no justification for 6 bullets, especially not during an actual struggle. You might try honestly asking yourself whether the bigger "criminal" in this narrative is in fact the police officer.

#15 | POSTED BY MODER8

4 to the arm, M8, following a struggle for the officer's weapon.

You are aware that attempting to disarm an officer is a serious felony? It is similar to attempting to kill an officer.

www.komu.com

#58 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Back in May the State of Missouri amended it's law that makes attempting to disarm an officer a felony:

The significant change is the definition of "disarming an officer." It would now include the officer's taser, pepper spray, tactical baton or other intermediate weapon on an officer's belt.

Dale Roberts, the Executive Director of Columbia Police Officer's Association, said there has been many circumstances where an individual attempted or succeeded to take another weapon from an officer's belt, and it was not considered offenses under disarming a police officer's statue.

"Statistics show that when a weapon is taken from an officer it is usually used on the officer, and unfortunately those occasions are often fatal," Roberts said.

#59 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sure, people put their head down when they run, especially when they're getting started.

www.google.com

#60 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I asked him what he would do if I rushed him and the situation was similar...

Ask him what he would do if you held up your arms and said "I surrender!"

This country is way too slow to question cops on their use of deadly force . There should be civilian police review boards in every major city and county.

#61 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Sure, people put their head down when they run, especially when they're getting started.

Your contention is that Michael Brown was sprinting at the cop like a track star? Was his friend timing him with a stopwatch?

#62 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#41 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

No offense, but your opinion on almost anything is almost instinctively dismissed. Your online presence here is a caricature of what I despise.

We'll always have the Texans commonality though.

#55 | Posted by memyselfini a

well good then we have two things in common..>EVERY LIBERAL is a common LIAR until proven otherwise....and your presence in my state makes me sick,... so I guess that's a commonality as well.

glad you understand the concept....

#63 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

It doesn't take too much a head tilt to expose the top of the head. The angle of the bullet to the top of the head is significant.

#64 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

This confirms what the eyewitness says on this video.
Hardly. Baden says of the head wound, "It can be because he's giving up, or because he's charging forward at the officer."
The entry point of the gunshot to Brown's palm and forearm suggest that his arm was raised at the time. It isn't conclusive, but it does make you wonder whether he was standing with arms raised in surrender when at least some of the shots were fired, as some witnesses have claimed.

#37 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-08-18 12:40 PM | REPLY | FLAG

And yet other eyewitness say Brown was running at the officer which is backed up by the autopsy. The 'eyewitnesses' narrative keeps changing as the facts come in. The police account hasn't changed.

The eyewitness captured on the audio/video match's the narrative that the police put out on day 1. Fight in/around the car, suspect runs, officer says to stop running, suspect runs back at officer, shots fired, Suspect killed.

No execution style slaying, no one shot down while running away.

Riots continue because the false narratives are crumbling more as the evidence is released. First the video of the robbery, then the autopsy, then another autopsy, then another...

Sorry the guy is dead, but he brought this on himself.

#65 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-18 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your contention is that Michael Brown was sprinting at the cop like a track star? Was his friend timing him with a stopwatch?

#62 | POSTED BY RCADE

LOL

No. I'm just pointing out that lowering one's head is natural when one starts running.

Ask the Examiner:

"This one here looks like his head was bent downward," he said, indicating the wound at the very top of Mr. Brown's head. "It can be because he's giving up, or because he's charging forward at the officer."

#66 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

and I appreciate the offering of "no offense" but it's actually a badge of honor and truth when I "get the busines." lol

and ,of course, I was relating information from an active officer and a retired military police / fbi agent who might have some prejudice towards the officer but who IN FACT have experience in this very incident. I"m just sorry for them that liberal posters here know so much more about these sorts of things...I just don't KNOW what I was thinking..

lol

#67 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

The entry point of the gunshot to Brown's palm and forearm suggest that his arm was raised at the time.

#37 | POSTED BY RCADE

How so?

#68 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

It doesn't take too much a head tilt to expose the top of the head. The angle of the bullet to the top of the head is significant.

#64 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:19

your comment here is almost verbatim to comments I heard this morning from people IN the field....

#69 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think we are getting multiple autopsies b/c Holder, Obama, and The gov know this place will explode if this officer isn't arrested.

#70 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-18 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#63 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

You mad bro?

I never made any comment about EVERY CONSERVATIVE. I was speaking directly about you. I also feel quite well, sorry to hear about your illness.

And rarely do I understand any concepts that you present.

Three strike and out on one post.

#71 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

AND TONIGHT I'm having dinner at a student's house where the mom is a forensic scientist with the Texas Department of Corrections who is so whacked liberal that she's actually voting for Wendy Davis...CAN"T wait to give some info from her and post it here.. so all of the EXPERTS here can tell me the REAL STORY,....

ah ha ha ha

#72 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#60 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Starting blocks? Was there a point to that?

#73 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

How so?

Getting shot in the palm and front of the forearm while holding your arms upraised is a lot more likely than getting shot there if you're charging at someone. But I didn't say it was conclusive. It just raises the question.

#74 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

And yet other eyewitness say Brown was running at the officer which is backed up by the autopsy.

I'm not aware of any named eyewitness who has said Brown was running at the officer. Nameless people speaking in the background of a video aren't credible.

The police account hasn't changed.

The police have never given a real account of the shooting. They wouldn't even say how many times he was shot or give this doctor access to Brown's clothing to examine it for gunshot residue.

Instead, they only seem to be able to release information that makes Brown look bad, like the store video.

#75 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This country is way too slow to question cops on their use of deadly force . There should be civilian police review boards in every major city and county.

#61 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

We're a nation of suckers.

NSA spies on us, we do nothing.

Politicians openly work against our economics interests, we do nothing.

Our young people get sent to die in wars based on lies, we do nothing.

Law enforcement becomes increasingly aggressive and inconsiderate of our rights, we do nothing.

We're a bunch of passive cowards compared to many foreign populations that we like to portray as being "soft".

#76 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

And rarely do I understand any concepts that you present.

Three strike and out on one post.

#71 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-

save the sanctimonious excrement for someone else. My broad brush, while perhaps broader than yours is the same concept. And I think I detected a smirk when you wrote "rarely do I understand...." Perhaps someday you might, if you keep listening. LOL

#77 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Even though Brown was about 30' away, the cop likely only had seconds [see theory in quote below from another source] to stop an 18 year old, 6' plus guy before he would reach the already injured police officer and could finish him off.

"30 yard dash by a 6 footer-plus 18 year old sprinting?

Count with me………One-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, four-one ………. Wilson is dead man.

Except for the last ditch effort at Brown's forehead, two shots at once. One hit to right of eye instead which is consistent with Wilson's right drag (like golf, people have a tendency in their technique to favor one side) and the last shot in succession struck this time home but top of head as Brown falls.


.

#78 | Posted by CALIFCHRIS at 2014-08-18 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

The palm shot is drawn as grazing. It would be perpendicular to the ground. Brown was not shot from on high.

#79 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Instead, they only seem to be able to release information that makes Brown look bad, like the store video.

#75 | POSTED BY RCADE

Well, it's not their fault that there isn't information that makes Brown look good.

#80 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Ever compared that to most other nation's gun use, Sittz? It's a ridiculously irresponsible overuse of a deadly weapon that sometimes gets bystanders shot.
Especially since it w wasn't only six shots fired.

#7 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG AT 2014-08-18 11:21 AM | FLAG:

Ever been to other nations? In Vietnam for a couple hundred bucks you can throw grenades and shoot RPGs. Irrelevant, but anyways, it took X amount of shots to kill Brown. When people are trained to use deadly force, that's the amount they are told to use, X. It's obvious X is variable. The average is 3, but if the situation requires more, you use more. That's the nature of lethal self-defense, the idea of always using precisely the right amount of force is stuff for science fiction.

#81 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

oops one more before lunch..."BRO"...

I'M NEVER MAD at what I read here whether it's about obama..killery or ME.....I've been here long enough that I never get mad anymore...

Life's too short to get mad over the musings and rantings of residents of our little clubhouse here....

have a wonderful day....I may be off to do some conservative things..I saw some kids who need to be blocked at the door of the ER !!!

#82 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cops seem are struggling to get their explanation out. It seems like the early involvement of the DOJ has compounded the cops efforts. At Friday's press conference where the video was released the Chief was saying the DOJ didn't want him to release the video.

#83 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Starting blocks? Was there a point to that?

#73 | POSTED BY SULLY

LOL Every image search for 'starting running' came back similar. Looking at enough of those images you can see that the top of your head is exposed to fire with just a bit of a downward tilt when running.

#84 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#75 And some of your previous evidence about running away, from supposedly credible witnesses, has been dispelled.

We know that some witnesses were lying... why trust any of them at all?

#85 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-18 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Why do YOU keep justify the CRIMINALS action.

No clue why anyone would be trying to defend the cop.

Seems like they are in favor of a militarized government where the grunts get to also wield judicial authority to pass sentence and carry out the execution all in a hasty split second decision.

This isn't the first event where a situation like this has happened either.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

why trust any of them at all?
#85 | POSTED BY HEURISTICGRATIS

Why not?

#87 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

message to residents on side of burnt out Quik Trip

This maybe why the eyewitnesses are not coming forward with a truthful version of events..

#88 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

The autopsy was conducted by former chief medical examiner for the city of New York, at the request of the Brown family. The report shows that all of Michael Brown's were to the front of the body.

According to the medical examiner's report, it does not appear that Brown was shot at close range, due to the fact that no gun powder was found on his skin.

The St. Louis County police have refused to release details from the state's preliminary autopsy, saying only that the coroner determined Brown's death was ‘due to gunshot wounds.' Police did not release information on the number or location of gunshot wounds that the county medical examiner found.

www.addictinginfo.org

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cops are hiding the truth.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#88 | POSTED BY AESCAL

Your theory holds about as much water as a sieve.

#91 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Irrelevant, but anyways, it took X amount of shots to kill Brown.
#81 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2014-08-18 01:36 PM

You're whole post is irrelevant.

The fact that the police officer chose to shoot brown in the first place is what's relevant.

The fact that any cop would shoot any suspect for any reason is whats up for debate.

You may want to live in a society where the military replaces our judicial system and cops are free to shoot anyone they want.

But thats not where I want to live.

I'm not as scared of life as you are.

#92 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your theory holds about as much water as a sieve.

#91 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

You're suggesting that aggressively hostile elements in Ferguson would welcome contradicting eyewitness accounts?

#93 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shots to the crown of the head to me mean he was falling or bending over not charging as he would have been looking forward to charge.

#94 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-08-18 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

The fact that any cop would shoot any suspect for any reason is whats up for debate.

#92 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

No it's not. Start a thread.

#95 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

We're a bunch of passive cowards compared to many foreign populations that we like to portray as being "soft".

As long as we can go home at the end of the day and post pictures of our cats on social media and fall asleep to our favorite television show we aren't changing.

being content is a trap.

and too many americans are content with the lives they live.

Even if it means giving up freedoms and privacy to do so in the process.

#96 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're suggesting that aggressively hostile elements in Ferguson would welcome contradicting eyewitness accounts?
#93 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

It's not black and white. Even some people in the "ghetto" are interested in truth and justice. Pity you and AESCAL are not interested in giving ANY of them the benefit of the doubt.

#97 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

have a wonderful day....I may be off to do some conservative things..I saw some kids who need to be blocked at the door of the ER !!!
#82 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Have fun with that, I'm meeting up with Wendy Davis later to go abort some babies.

#98 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I'm meeting up with Wendy Davis later to go abort some babies.
#98 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Wait for me! I'll grab my coat hanger!

#100 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

4 to 5 punches to the abdomen should do the trick nicely.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#101 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Leaves bruising, which could lead to questions.

#102 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Soap in a sock?

#103 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not sure why my fellow liberals are making a saint out of this guy. The fact is he was a thug and he didn't need a gun to be a threat to others. There are also witness accounts claiming that he charged the officers. It's true, America's police forces are over-armed and trigger happy, but this guy makes a poor martyr for the cause of police de-militarization.

#104 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2014-08-18 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Video of eyewitness who was 15-20 feet away on the driver's side of the cruiser

www.msnbc.com

#105 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

The fact is he was a thug and he didn't need a gun to be a threat to others.

If our police force is so scared of a "thug" that it needs to open fire, then our police force is a bunch of cowards with guns.

Which doesn't make me feel any safer about having them out there.

It's funny that you consider yourself a liberal when you're clearly not.

#106 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sock in a soap?

#107 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pity you and AESCAL are not interested in giving ANY of them the benefit of the doubt.

#97 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

There are only a handful of potential eyewitnesses, claims of witnessing to the contrary. I've seen many, many residents of Ferguson who are very decent people. The some that aren't are having a disproportionate impact on the discussion.

Why do you think the guy on the video describing Brown bullrushing the cop hasn't come forward?

#108 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

socks on fox

#109 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

but this guy makes a poor martyr for the cause of police de-militarization.
#104 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

Did you not see what happened the night of the shooting? The day after?

That's the de-militarization that needs to be addressed. The justification behind Michael Brown's shooting no longer matters. The police response to the initial protests is what should be debated.

Why can't you recognize this?

#110 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

And slightly racist.
Par for course for Dix.

#99 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

If you find me a racist statement I've made I'll buy you lunch and wash your car. Or your bicycle.

#111 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you think the guy on the video describing Brown bullrushing the cop hasn't come forward?

Cause he's full of it.

Otherwise the police would have him on a grand stand telling his account of the details for everyone to hear, and they would shut down any differing eyewitness accounts, so that this story would be the only story the media has.

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

only if you wash my car AND my bicycle.

#113 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you think the guy on the video describing Brown bullrushing the cop hasn't come forward?
#108 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Maybe he has and we don't know yet. It's an ongoing investigation being conducted by the State of Missouri, not MSNBC or Fox or DR posters.

#114 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

#104 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

This is mostly where I am finding myself. All this, what seems to be a political divide injecting itself into this occurrence, is clouding the waters for actual justice. People seemed to already claim they knew what justice was for this situation (the cop being arrested or Brown deserved it) before any substantial evidence came to light. Now many are scrambling to fit the evidence into their previously held narrative.

There are still questions left unanswered. I still have no definitive stance I'm willing to get behind.

#115 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2


If our police force is so scared of a "thug" that it needs to open fire, then our police force is a bunch of cowards with guns.

How do you know? Were you there? If this large thug charged you with the intent of doing you harm would you not shoot him if you had a gun?
An armed police force that protects me from thugs like this is why I don't feel the need to buy a gun.


It's funny that you consider yourself a liberal when you're clearly not.

I'm a liberal that lives in the real world. I don't have pet causes. You are clearly some kind of hippie-anarchist that lives in fear of 'the man'.

#116 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2014-08-18 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#106 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

The liberal tent is a bigger tent than you might think.

#117 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The police response to the initial protests is what should be debated.
Why can't you recognize this?

#110 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

There's not too much to debate there. The treatment of peaceful protesters has been wrong. Allowing looting has been wrong, too.

#118 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#106 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

The liberal tent is a bigger tent than you might think.

#117 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Word.

#119 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You are clearly some kind of hippie-anarchist that lives in fear of 'the man'.

I don't live in fear of anyone, which is why I don't need the military marching down my street shooting anyone that looks like they may be a "thug".

You seem to have soiled your pantaloons, like most scared conservatives.

You also don't seem to understand what being a liberal is.

Its not labeling people as thugs and supporting wanton violence against them so you can feel safe.

You are not a liberal.

you are a moderate conservative thats confused as to what being a liberal is.

sad.

#120 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

The liberal tent is a bigger tent than you might think.
#117 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Sure sure, moderate can can call themselves liberals all day.

what every you like buddy.

#121 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The fact that the police officer chose to shoot brown in the first place is what's relevant.
The fact that any cop would shoot any suspect for any reason is whats up for debate.
You may want to live in a society where the military replaces our judicial system and cops are free to shoot anyone they want.
But thats not where I want to live.
I'm not as scared of life as you are.

#92 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2014-08-18 02:12 PM | FLAG:

Any cop shooting any suspect for any reason... no that's not up for debate at all. This is a narrow set of circumstances where a suspect was face on with the cop who shot them, and may or may not have been charging them.

Afraid of life? No, just practical. I've done my time in MMA gyms and competitively grappled. Fighting big guys sucks and is a stupid idea, you could make a mistake and die quite easily.

#122 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1


That's the de-militarization that needs to be addressed. The justification behind Michael Brown's shooting no longer matters. The police response to the initial protests is what should be debated.

Why can't you recognize this?

#110 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:44 PM

Why can't you recognize that police militarization was wrong before the Brown shooting? These are two separate issues. By tying the issue of police de-militarization to the shooting of this thug you are doing the cause a disservice.

#123 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2014-08-18 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The liberal tent is a bigger tent than you might think.
#117 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Word.
#119 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-18 02:52 PM

LOL!!!

Yea!! Dix is totally a liberal!!

HAHAHAH!!

thanks for making MeMyselfIni's point for him.

From this day forward EVERYONE is a liberal.

Boaz's nightmare is finally a reality.

#124 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

The treatment of peaceful protesters has been wrong. Allowing looting has been wrong, too.
#118 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Glad you and I are in agreement with that portion of the topic. But many within the police force (and those within the Tough on Crime industrial complex) would disagree vehemently. Especially those who experienced the L.A. riots.

This is still something that needs to be parsed out. Those supporting stringent policing measures like that at Ferguson need to be heard and subsequently educated as to why draconian force by the State should not be tolerated by its citizenry. This should be a good learning experience, but if the looting and violence continues, the debate will only continue to linger.

I applaud the calls to end the protests at sundown.

#125 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is a narrow set of circumstances where a suspect was face on with the cop who shot them, and may or may not have been charging them.

So, cool. Just shoot him "X" amount of times then. Because the cop need to make sure the innocent "thug" was dead so his side of the story could never be heard.

"X.X.X"

I've done my time in MMA gyms and competitively grappled. Fighting big guys sucks and is a stupid idea, you could make a mistake and die quite easily.

LOL!!!

Thanks for displaying your fear.

You could also be eating a bag of pretzels and choke to death!

Maybe we should have a Snack Security Agency come pre chew all your food for you.

LOL!

#126 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:


You seem to have soiled your pantaloons, like most scared conservatives.

I get the feeling you live in a nice, safe neighborhood where thugs like Brown don't roam the streets.


You also don't seem to understand what being a liberal is.

Its not labeling people as thugs and supporting wanton violence against them so you can feel safe.

That's not being liberal, that's just being PC. I am all for wanton violence against those that want to do me physical harm.


You are not a liberal.

you are a moderate conservative thats confused as to what being a liberal is.

And you live in a bubble, much like the conservatives on this site. You view being liberal as personality politics. Being liberal is about being right, and you're wrong on this one.

#127 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2014-08-18 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

These are two separate issues. By tying the issue of police de-militarization to the shooting of this thug you are doing the cause a disservice.
#123 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

They WERE two separate issues before the police response to the protests and looting. The recent events that took place post shooting are now part of the overall issue. As you suggest, it's an ongoing issue that now has more significant variables than ever before - which includes variables like social media.

Again, this is an ongoing issue. The death of an unarmed teen by a police officer who felt in fear for his life, the community's response, and then the authorities' subsequent response is all tied together for a good reason. It's all part of the same story.

#128 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its not labeling people as thugs

#120 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Is it labeling people racist?

#129 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

You are clearly some kind of hippie-anarchist that lives in fear of 'the man'.
#116 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

I deeply implore you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander.

There is reason certain groups of individuals should be in fear of "the man."

#130 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is it labeling people racist?
#129 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

If the shoe fits...

#131 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#87 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

You tell me why trust them. Seems many have no issue with 100% distrust of the cops.

I think 100% distrust of either group is suspect.

You?

#132 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-18 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Turns out Brown probably had Marijuana in his system...

County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system
www.washingtonpost.com

#133 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-18 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Tell me about all my conservative positions, Clown.

Where do I stand on:

Police Force
Privacy
Abortion
Deficit Spending
Religion
Marijuana
Gay Rights
Social Security
Unemployment Insurance
Racial Discrimination
Public Education
Disabled Rights
Hot Asians

#134 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#114 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

This.

Cause he's full of it.

#112 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

That seems awfully presumptuous. Please see #114

what every you like buddy.

#121 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Right back at ya.

#135 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is it labeling people racist?
#129 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

I don't need to answer for CLOWNY, but I would imagine his point lies in the hope that the next person you label as a "thug" is white, or maybe even Hispanic. Hell, ISIS thugs are wreaking havoc in Iraq, maybe he's hoping you refer to them as thugs as well.

THEN AND ONLY THEN ARE YOU NOT A RACIST!!!

HAHAHAHA!

#136 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#132 | POSTED BY HEURISTICGRATIS

No, no, no....please....you offer a reason NOT to trust them. Onus is on you.

#137 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, it's not their fault that there isn't information that makes Brown look good.

The Ferguson police are withholding information that makes themselves look bad. Instead of seeking justice and getting all the information out, they're acting like a gang of criminals trying to escape culpability.

The autopsy findings should have come from them. Statements about what witnesses were telling police should have come from them. A full accounting by the cop of what he says happened should have come from them.

Stop worrying so much about the dead guy on the street, who was only stopped by police for walking down the middle of the road and not anything else. Focus on the police cover up, because that's why this is now such a trainwreck.

#138 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

I get the feeling you live in a nice, safe neighborhood where thugs like Brown don't roam the streets.

LOL!!! Yea, KoreaTown - Downtown Los Angeles. I live in wonderfully safe neighborhood with MS13 tagging everywhere.

Strike one.

also, all liberals like to refer to black people that were murdered by cops as "thugs".

Tell me. If this guy was such a clear cut thug, why wouldn't the cops have simply come forward and said so? Why are they hiding everything? because the kid was a kid, and shouldn't have been shot, not once, or 6 times.

I am all for wanton violence against those that want to do me physical harm.

Told you, you're scared with soiled depends. So in your opinion, Brown would have done you physical harm? LOL!

Please stop referring to yourself as a liberal. just call yourself a moderate.

And you live in a bubble, much like the conservatives on this site.

Again, you are wrong. like most your posts. you are wrong.

You view being liberal as personality politics.

Nope.

Being liberal is about being right, and you're wrong on this one.
#127 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

What are you talking about? Being liberal is about being right? no clue what that means. You really don't seem to know what being liberal means, at all.

you are not a liberal.

#139 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#105 where was the alleged video that she took with her phone after the first shot was fired? I only saw a picture of the cop walking past the covered body.

#140 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-18 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:


I deeply implore you to read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander.

There is reason certain groups of individuals should be in fear of "the man."

#130 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:08 PM

I don't disagree. That doesn't mean cops should let black thugs beat them up or allow them to loot at will. Cops that target minorities should be punished within the system and the law.

#141 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2014-08-18 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

#133 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

So what?

#142 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

#133 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

So what?

#143 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Now we have a piece of the officers version. 1) He saw to guys walking in the middle of the street he drove up to them to tell them to get on the side walk. 2) He had heard the report of the robbery but the did not place these two as being part of it yet. 3) The big guy reached into the officers window and tried to get the officers gun which he did for a short period of time. 4) the gun discharged while they were fighting over it. 5) the officer opened his door to get the gun from the big guy. 6) he gets his gun back and the guy runs away. 7) He chases the guy and then the guy stops and taunts him to shoot him. 8) The office fires the warning shot. 9) The guy lowers his head and charges the officer. 10) the officer shoots him in the arm. 11) he continues to charge. 12) the office shoots him in the head. "

So again why are ANY of you supporting this criminal over the officer??? Why do also support pulling the 2nd admendment when the police let the crowd run wild for 2 nights leaving the shop owners to fend for themselves?

#144 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-18 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Turns out Brown probably had Marijuana in his system...
County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system
www.washingtonpost.com
#133 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-08-18 03:10 PM

Which would have made him less aggressive.

but he was black.

So I understand why all conservatives are scared of him.

because black = thug.

even Richard Sherman.

#145 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, he looked non aggressive in that strong armed robbery.
What possesses some of you to repeatedly make such stupid comments?

#146 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

3) The big guy reached into the officers window and tried to get the officers gun which he did for a short period of time. 4) the gun discharged while they were fighting over it. 5) the officer opened his door to get the gun from the big guy. 6) he gets his gun back and the guy runs away. 7) He chases the guy and then the guy stops and taunts him to shoot him. 8) The office fires the warning shot. 9) The guy lowers his head and charges the officer.

#144 | POSTED BY FOSHAFFER

Any link to this because the description of the series of event come across suspect.

#147 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, he looked non aggressive in that strong armed robbery.

So the cop shot him during the strong armed robbery?

or walking down the street?

The problems seems to be the police are a bunch of scared, weak, little pissants.

That couldn't hold their own without a gun.

I can understand conservatives wanting to see someone (a black man) get murdered.

But I would expect the police to be able to hold their own, be better trained, or be smarter.

#148 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The autopsy findings should have come from them. Statements about what witnesses were telling police should have come from them. A full accounting by the cop of what he says happened should have come from them.

Stop worrying so much about the dead guy on the street, who was only stopped by police for walking down the middle of the road and not anything else. Focus on the police cover up, because that's why this is now such a trainwreck.

#138 | POSTED BY RCADE

Are those statements and reports supposed to come immediately? I don't think they usually do. Don't forget the DOJ and the State of Missouri need to weigh in on releases.

#150 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

The media seems focused on the flames, not the spark.

The DR has once again proven to be the best place to come for the best information. So thank you for that, RCade.

#151 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I can understand conservatives wanting to see someone (a black man) get murdered.

#148 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Then I'm definitely not a conservative.

#152 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tell me about all my conservative positions, Clown.

Where do I stand on:

Police Force - you love it
Privacy - you can live without it
Abortion - you hate it, those poor humans trapped inside that horrible woman's ------!
Deficit Spending - none
Religion - only christians have it right, and could all jews move to Jerusalem in order to piss off jesus so he can come back and start the rapture.
Marijuana - you and Zed both fear it.
Gay Rights - homosexuality is a malady that should be cured with shock treatment.
Social Security - government scam
Unemployment Insurance - lazy people
Racial Discrimination - doesn't exist, those thugs should have remained slaves
Public Education - education is for snobs. and snobs have great grammar.
Disabled Rights - they aren't disabled enough.
Hot Asians - Asians have no souls, but damn they hot!

#134 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-18 03:11 PM

#153 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I can understand conservatives wanting to see someone (a black man) get murdered."

easy Clown. We can toss in a Latino or Asian once in a while....

:-)

#154 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#148 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Can you not at least see the possibility that if Micheal Brown commits an crime using intimidation in a robbery just moments previous, he might, again might have been the aggressor with regards to the shooting?

You just come off so aggressively sure of what happened.

You also seem to be too hung up on the "thug" name calling.
What is your definition of a thug?

#155 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Micheal Brown does not appear to be Trayvon Martin.

#157 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#153 You seem to have me confused with LeeTheAgent.

#158 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"I don't need to answer for CLOWNY"

Of course you don't he had a great weekend no matter what the haters say.

Clowney put on a brief show against the Atlanta Falcons late Saturday night, besides pulverizing a poor running back, he then registered a LOOK-AT-THAT-SPEED sack on the very next play.!

"I can understand conservatives wanting to see someone (a black man) get murdered."

Oh you mean this CLOWNY, my bad.

#159 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-18 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are those statements and reports supposed to come immediately? I don't think they usually do. Don't forget the DOJ and the State of Missouri need to weigh in on releases.
#150 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

LOL!!

the longer it takes for the police department to come forward with the truth the bigger of a hole they dig themselves.

the information about the autopsy, the cop's name, the footage from the cop's car... are all already available and it clears Brown of being a "thug" and the aggressor.

Which is why its being kept from the public.

But lets hear the racists call Michael Brown a thug some more.

Cue Dix...

#160 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#140 | Posted by HeuristicGratis

After the first shot was fired she was busy getting out of the line of fire

The big guy reached into the officers window and tried to get the officers gun which he did for a short period of time. 4) the gun discharged while they were fighting over it. 5) the officer opened his door to get the gun from the big guy. 6) he gets his gun back and the guy runs away. 7) He chases the guy and then the guy stops and taunts him to shoot him. 8) The office fires the warning shot. 9) The guy lowers his head and charges the officer.

#144 | POSTED BY FOSHAFFER

This eyewitness, who was feet away on the driver's side of the cop car, said both of Michael Brown's hands were on the outside of the car. The cop was trying to pull him in, and Brown was trying to break free. Again, with his hands pushing against the outside of the car trying to pull away, not inside.

--- No gunshot residue found on Michael Brown's hands ---

www.msnbc.com

Other eyewitnesses said the cop's first words to Brown and Johnson were "get the ---- on the sidewalk". Brown said something to him, the cop backs up, tires screeching. The cop is right next to Brown and Johnson and can't get his door open. He reaches for Brown's neck and attempts to pull him in the car. Again, the eyewitness closest to the driver's side of the cop's car states that at no point were Brown's hands inside the car.

#161 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

148
I won't play the game where you try saving face after making willfully stupid comments.
Run along and go play "assign people a political ideology"vehicle the rest of us laugh at your flailing.

#162 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#159 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

I've replayed those two sequential plays so many times already that I can close my eyes and watch it.

#163 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

The media seems focused on the flames, not the spark.
The DR has once again proven to be the best place to come for the best information. So thank you for that, RCade.
#151 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Says the guy fanning the flames.

LOL

you're too funny Dixie.

Tell us more about your "thug" theory.

#164 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

148

I won't play the game where you try saving face after making willfully stupid comments.
Run along and go play "assign people a political ideology"vehicle the rest of us laugh at your flailing.
#162 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

You wont play what game?

The one you slander a black kid by calling him a "thug" and demanding he get shot for walking down the street?

You're the only one playing that game.

#165 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Micheal Brown does not appear to be Trayvon Martin.
#157 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFIN

Are you sure?

Cause they're both black.

I mean did you look twice?

Cause they're both "thugs" too.

no no, I'm convinced they are the same person.

you could substitute any of Dix or 101's comments from the Trayvon Martin trial for this one and it would sound identical.

We're only missing Saliliar.

#166 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tell us more about your "thug" theory.

#164 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Find a post of mine where I used that word.

#167 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're not just going off half-cocked today, Clownshack.

#168 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Oh you mean this CLOWNY, my bad.
#159 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

Man, I'll talk football all day. That dude is a beast. CLOWNSHACK is too, but the pairing of Clowney and Watt may very well be HOF worthy for both parties.

#169 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 23% of all American Adults believe the police officer who shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri should be found guilty of murder."

I think nearly all of the 23% are posting here on the DR.

Suprisingly, only 57% of blacks believe the police officer committed murder. Figured it to be closer to 90%. Maybe America is moving forward afterall. The younger generation is very liberal on issues like gay marriage and marijuana, but they are not nearly as liberal on issues like race. The 60's generation (that still dominates the news) is stuck on the race issue and can't let it go. Younger Americans are moving on.

#170 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2014-08-18 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

World's Thinnest Book:

"How to Make Friends and Influence People"

by Clownshack

#171 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

That doesn't mean cops should let black thugs beat them up or allow them to loot at will. #141 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

Black Thugs?

Aren't you just being redundant?

#173 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

That doesn't mean cops should let black thugs beat them up or allow them to loot at will.

That's not what I was insinuating at all. Please do not put words in my mouth (posts).

Cops that target minorities should be punished within the system and the law.
#141 | POSTED BY DRJIMMIES

Which is why I suggested you read The New Jim Crow, it's not about "a few bad apples" within the policing force. It's about the system - systemic racism is rampant within the CJS. That's why Alexander refers to it as "The New Jim Crow."

I am more than happy to discuss this specific topic with you further. It is directly relatable to this overall topic, thread, and future of criminal justice policy.

#174 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

I want to see the hospital report for the officer that was supposedly assaulted in the car. If bruising is present in the left temple area, it would seem that he was punched and could have been disorientated enough to explain the poor grouping and missed shots. How many shots were fired total? I have yet to see that report. You get punched straight in the face it knocks you back, but taking bare knuckles to the side of the head really throws you off balance. Where was the shot that was fired inside of the car? What the placement of the casings? Do they indicate the officer was firing on the move or stationary? All this and more will tell us if Brown was charging, moonwalking away, etc. I had my doubts that a police officer would just roll up on group of people and begin shooting them in the back as they ran away.

#175 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Younger Americans are moving on.
#170 | POSTED BY CASEYJONES

No they're not.

But you're not really paying attention to "Younger America"

Just what your survey tells you.

#176 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Black Thugs?
Aren't you just being redundant?

#173 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

By that measure, are you a reverse racist?

#177 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

World's Thickest Book:
"I'm not a racist, and here's why."
by Dixievillenotch

Why don't you whistle some dixie for us under your hanging tree.

#178 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sober up, Clown, and we'll go get some beers.

#179 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

All I know is that we are better off with less Michael Browns in this world.

translation, All I know is that we are better off with less black people in this world.

#180 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

I had my doubts that a police officer would just roll up on group of people and begin shooting them in the back as they ran away.
#175 | POSTED BY AESCAL

Is that what you heard the witnesses say? No wonder you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

#181 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If bruising is present in the left temple area, it would seem that he was punched and could have been disorientated enough to explain the poor grouping and missed shots."

The stains in his underwear might better explain the rapid, innaccurate emptying of his weapon.

#182 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-18 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3 | Newsworthy 1

Lastly, the shots to the head really don't tell us much considering they could mean he was coming forward aggressively, or dropping down to surrender.

Or falling forward during what the former NYC medical examiner called the kill shot. That scenario is certainly plausible considering Brown had been shot through the eye the previous shot and landed on his face.

#183 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

By that measure, are you a reverse racist?
#177 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

•That doesn't mean cops should let black thugs beat them up or allow them to loot at will.

•That doesn't mean cops should let thugs beat them up or allow them to loot at will.

•That doesn't mean cops should let black people beat them up or allow them to loot at will.

IMO, sentences 2 and 3 aren't the same.

the use of Black thugs (#1) is specifically an ad hominem.

like DRJIMMIES said, black people scare him. so he wants you to be scared too by specifying black people are thugs.

#184 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Clown is doing some hard core trolling, nothing else could explain how stupid all his posts are.

#185 | Posted by fishpaw at 2014-08-18 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I can see the need to pump 6 rounds into somebody considering 4 of them hit him in the arm.

You got someone charging at you?

Shoot the legs and knees. not the arms.

you're a scared little pissant police officer with a "thug" in front of you?

Unload your weapon and hope something vital is hit.

#186 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

That scenario is certainly plausible considering Brown had been shot through the eye the previous shot and landed on his face.

#183 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

You're a funny guy, AU, bent on ignoring facts in the article and pointed out to you by other posters. Baden says in the article that the shot in the eye went down through the jaw and collarbone, so Brown's head was already down. We talked about this in the other thread last night. If you don't like hearing it from me, at least recognize that I'm just giving you the facts from the article.

#187 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why is it so many of the rightwingers on this site are knee-jerk in their defense of the officer? Similarly, why is it that so many of the liberals on this site are knee-jerk in their defense of Michael Brown? If you think about it, this should be a non-partisan issue. But it's not. The stereotype of what position rightwingers and liberals automatically take seems well in force with this story. Rightwingers immediately defend the cop who shot the unarmed black kid at least six times. Liberals immediately blame the cop who presumably was doing his job, and defend the thuggish kid who had just committed a pretty brazen and aggressive strong armed robbery less than an hour earlier.

Cases like this play into all our preexisting stereotypes and prejudices. That is the only excuse or reason for personal politics influencing one's initial interpretation of what happened.

#189 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-18 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

so he wants you to be scared too by specifying black people are thugs.
#184 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

:-D

#190 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Is that what you heard the witnesses say? No wonder you don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Thats exactly the story that came out. All over social media. He was running away and shot in the back. Then it changed to he was stopped and had his hands up in air. Now several witnesses are saying he was running towards the cop. Kinda like the story that he wasnt doing anything wrong, just walking in the street and the cop got out the car and shot him. Now we know he was walking back from store he had just robbed. And his own social media shows him throwing up gangs signs, in gang colors, bragging about standing his ground. Rather than painting the evidence to fit ones narrative, let the evidence explain itself.

#191 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well the autopsy report came out, and they found marijuana in his system. That's why pot is a gateway drug - first it's pot, then it's marijuana! Poor Michael Brown, he must have had refer madness.

#192 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-18 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cop definitely shot at him as he was RUNNING AWAY. Whether or not it hit him or he flinched is besides the point.

Once Brown turned around and raised his hands in the air (corroborated by multiple witnesses) the cop should have stopped firing.

#193 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 04:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cases like this play into all our preexisting stereotypes and prejudices. That is the only excuse or reason for personal politics influencing one's initial interpretation of what happened.
#189 | POSTED BY MODER8

So, IOW, it fits perfectly within the confines of the DR.

Good post.

#194 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

You don't care enough to be aggressive or violent when high on marijuana.

this is all horse manure attempting to vilify black people and marijuana.

#195 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well the autopsy report came out, and they found marijuana in his system. That's why pot is a gateway drug - first it's pot, then it's marijuana! Poor Michael Brown, he must have had refer madness.
#192 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Possibly explains why he stole the cigars. It's a common form of smoking marijuana, most preferable within the African-American community, from my experience.

"Spark a blunt!"

#196 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rightwingers immediately defend the cop who shot the unarmed black kid at least six times. Liberals immediately blame the cop who presumably was doing his job, and defend the thuggish kid who had just committed a pretty brazen and aggressive strong armed robbery less than an hour earlier.

#189 | POSTED BY MODER8

You're half right, M8. It started out with the liberals. If they were correct you wouldn't hear much blowback.

Executing a jaywalker after shooting him in the back is so obviously wrong for a cop to do that it is natural to want to know if that is what really happened. Turns out that's not what happened.

#197 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Rather than painting the evidence to fit ones narrative, let the evidence explain itself.
#191 | POSTED BY AESCAL

Yes. And witness testimony is used as evidence. The DA will determine which witnesses are most credible and which stories most appropriately fit the other evidence.

#198 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#194 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

I suppose your right rsty, and agreed good post moder8.

#199 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If you think about it, this should be a non-partisan issue"

I'm with you. I'm for the investigation to reveal whether or not this shooting was justified. I'm of the opinion from what I have seen that it wasn't justified.

#200 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Executing a jaywalker after shooting him in the back is so obviously wrong for a cop to do that it is natural to want to know if that is what really happened. Turns out that's not what happened.

The truth hurts.

#201 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-08-18 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

How was he running away? Backwards?

#202 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, cool. Just shoot him "X" amount of times then. Because the cop need to make sure the innocent "thug" was dead so his side of the story could never be heard.

#126 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2014-08-18 03:02 PM | FLAG:

Police body cameras should be mandatory. It reduces incidents of police violence. However if you charge a cop, they will shoot you X amount of times and try very hard to kill you, camera or not.

#203 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Turns out that's not what happened."

The truth hurts.
#201 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Interesting the two of you DO KNOW what happened, while the rest of us, including the authorities, attempt to parse out the "truth."

Come back tomorrow with some more of that "truth" you've been spreading. It seems we are all stocked up for the day.

#204 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

this is all horse manure attempting to vilify black people and marijuana.

#195 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

There we agree on something somewhat. But let not pretend everyone that smokes pot is turns into a peace-nic hippy. It neither proves or disproves anything. It is irrelevant.

#205 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like with the Martin case there are some people who instinctively will justify any action against black people. The truth is this kind of stuff has been happening in this country for hundreds of years. Some people will hate no matter what you do.

#206 | Posted by ron81 at 2014-08-18 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

The one thing we can all agree on is that clownshack took a worse beating than that quick I-Mart in Ferguson.

#207 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Police body cameras should be mandatory. It reduces incidents of police violence. However if you charge a cop, they will shoot you X amount of times and try very hard to kill you, camera or not.
#203 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I believe they were gifted all the military equipment from the feds. If they can't afford body-cameras, let alone dash-cameras, maybe they should sell some of that military equipment to the Mexican drug lords to fund cameras. In the long run, it would be just as detrimental to American citizens, but at least we are guaranteed plenty of footage for True TV's Most Shocking Police Videos .

#208 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"How was he running away? Backwards?"

sure.....

www.youtube.com

#209 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

New post-shooting video emerges. Was held by Ferguson police since the shooting but not released with the convenience store video: www.drudge.com

#210 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Police body cameras should be mandatory. It reduces incidents of police violence.

Agreed 100%. Accountability is needed.

However if you charge a cop, they will shoot you X amount of times and try very hard to kill you, camera or not.
#203 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Michael Brown charging the cop is hearsay.

Michael Brown is innocent until proven guilty.

#211 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

The one thing we can all agree on is that clownshack took a worse beating than that quick I-Mart in Ferguson.
#207 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

LOL!

You and special Eddie.

Keeping it special.

#212 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

The cartels can afford way better crap than the police were given. They have air cavalry.

#213 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.youtube.com

@6:28/6:29 of video

#1 How'd he get from there to there?

#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck

{crosstalk}

#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him

{crosstalk}

#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –

#1. Oh, the police got his gun

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I'm thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

{crosstalk}

#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing

#1 The Police?

#2 The Police shot him

#1 Police?

In all fairness it doesnt state that he was either charging or going back with his hands up. Thats for a ballistic expert and forensic ME to determine angle of the shots.

#214 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

How was he running away? Backwards?

#202 | Posted by 101Chairborne

He was running away then turned around with his hands in the air after the cop started shooting at him.

This according to multiple eyewitness testimony, some of which has been linked on this thread.

#215 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was running away then turned around with his hands in the air after the cop started shooting at him.
This according to multiple eyewitness testimony, some of which has been linked on this thread.
#215 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Don't worry about 101, hearing that a black man died made his day.

#216 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 6

Guns don't kill people.

#217 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-08-18 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

And look what the cops did to King Kong!

#218 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-08-18 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

This according to multiple eyewitness testimony, some of which has been linked on this thread.
#215 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Of whom none should be trusted, according to HEURISTICGRATIS for reasons that which he refuses to identify.

#219 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

AU,
There were multiple people claiming to be eyewitness to him being shot in the back.

#220 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cartels can afford way better crap than the police were given. They have air cavalry.
#213 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

If not the cartels, maybe Google? Seems inevitable, anyways.

#221 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

New post-shooting video emerges. Was held by Ferguson police since the shooting but not released with the convenience store video: www.drudge.com

#210 | Posted by tonyroma

The video doesn't add anything new to the post-shooting scene.

These witnesses the Brown family is going to be relying on should stop giving interviews already. In your link to the CNN report Piaget Crenshaw is already modifying her account to line up with the autopsy report released yesterday.

#222 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know what made my day? Hearing the collective whining from people excusing the looting and video of that cadaver known as Michael brown robbing that store.
Especially after we heard about how he was a gentle giant that wouldn't hurt a flea. He was going to go to college, dontcha know...

Seriously, what kind of animal destroys the only few places in their neighborhood that have survived all the shoplifting and robberies? Now where will they get their Kool's and gasoline?

#223 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Michael Brown is innocent until proven guilty.
#211 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Michael Brown is dead. Therefor he cannot be charged with a crime. Hence it is impossible for him to be found guilty.

That, however, does not make him innocent of committing a crime. That's the ultimate "get out of jail free card," can't be found guilty if your dead.

#224 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was shot in the back??

www.addictinginfo.org

Doesn't seem to indicate any shots to the back.

#225 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Guns don't kill people.... obfuscating fasciati kill people.

#226 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-18 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

AU,
There were multiple people claiming to be eyewitness to him being shot in the back.

#220 | Posted by 101Chairborne

The three eyewitnesses that have been identified had Brown being shot in the back.

Dorian Johnson, Brown's companion at both the shooting and the robbery, is not going to be useful as a witness.

That leaves Tiffany Mitchell and Piaget Crenshaw. Both have Brown being shot in the back. Both have Brown in a physical altercation at the squad car, including a shot fired. Piaget is on CNN this morning modifying her account to fit the Baden shot diagram.

#227 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

There were multiple people claiming to be eyewitness to him being shot in the back.

Wilson shot at him while he was running away. His buddy always said that he "thought" he might have been hit from behind, and the grazing wound may be consistent with that theory. After that, Brown stopped and turned toward Wilson who then fired the shots that injured and killed him. Other eyewitnesses have been consistent that Wilson was trying to pull Brown into the vehicle and Brown was trying to escape, not grab at his gun to prolong the struggle. Brown's fleeing is more consistent with the escape theory than the grabbing theory, but we still haven't seen all the forensic evidence to know for certain.

When Brown took the shot through the eye, he likely began to fall forward and the last shot to the top of the head was likely fired. The look and actions of Wilson post-shooting don't appear to be that of someone relieved that their life was spared. He looks more distraught for having killed Brown as he talked to the other cop and paced up and down for a bit, but of course that is just conjecture.

#228 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Hearing the collective whining from people excusing the looting and video of that cadaver known as Michael brown robbing that store.

Excusing? Collectively?!

HAHA! You're combatting a ghost, old man. The Nazis lost. The Soviet Union fell. Saddam didn't have WMDs (at least ones not provided by the U.S.).

Who here is excusing the looting? Especially in a manner that could be deemed as a group collective perceived in a singular voice?

#229 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Michael Brown is dead.

Michael Brown has apparently been found guilty of charging the police officers which excused the police of shooting him.

6 times.

If you're getting charged by someone why shoot the arm and not the legs?

did you see those fat lazy excuses for polices officers?

I'm surprised they didn't keel over from massive heart attacks.

#230 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was shot in the back??

www.addictinginfo.org

Doesn't seem to indicate any shots to the back.

#225 | Posted by ClownShack

Right, Clown. Now you're getting it.

Here are the two witnesses last week on CNN saying it looked like he got hit in the back:

youtu.be

#231 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who here is excusing the looting?

No one is.

He should have written "ignoring".

Because its not relevant to this case.

#232 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

he was running away then turned and rushed the officer according the audio on the video everyone but americanunity has seen....the location of the spent casings, the location of the body and the location of the police vehicle will either prove or disprove this.

1. he was a thug, video proves that, im sure if his juvy record were released more proof would be there.

2. why riot only when this situation occurs? why not riot when a black man kills another black person? hmmm because they really don't give a ----, this just gives them an excuse.

3. obviously his friend lied to the police and society, make him pay...

4. his mother lied too, so why do they have any credibility left.

#233 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 04:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Both have Brown in a physical altercation at the squad car, including a shot fired

Do you have anything linking to the account of the gun shot going off in the squad car?

#234 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

clownshack, really, why not shoot the legs? lol....he is trained to aim center mass......not everyone is a good a shot as Gibbs...

#235 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dorian Johnson, Brown's companion at both the shooting and the robbery, is not going to be useful as a witness.
#227 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Take a guess as to why law enforcement will NOT be charging Johnson with robbery over the cigar incident.

Need a hint? Take a look at the surveillance tape of the robbery and focus solely on Johnson. You will see Brown take a small box of cigars from over the counter and hand them to Johnson. Brown then reaches back over the counter and grabs the large display box of cigars and begins the confrontation with the store owner. It is during this initial confrontation, when the owner is still behind the counter and Brown is fumbling with the larger cigar display box that Johnson places the small box of cigars handed to him by Brown back onto the counter. He then turns walks out of the store with Brown behind him.

Video queued up at point when Johnson places the small box of cigars back on the counter: www.youtube.com

Johnson did not commit a crime. There's no evidence that he was an accessory to the crime either. His actions on the video tape will lend him credibility regarding what he witnessed that day, IMO.

#236 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Dix,

People say Brown got hit from the back because Wilson shot at him while he was fleeing, and THEN Brown turned around and was gunned dead. Again, Brown was fired upon from behind, no argument. The fact that people inferred he was hit is largely irrelevant unless these same witnesses should have recounted precisely how many times he was hit and fired upon from the front as well. You are asking way too much from eyewitnesses of a 30 second event that they weren't anticipating. There is no inconsistency in these stories unless you're trying to invent a justifiable reason for this homicide. The video I posted is very important for establishing Wilson's demeanor and state of mind after he had just killed Brown. If the convenience store video tells a story, so does this post-shooting video.

And the most damning part of this entire story is that the Ferguson police had this video from the first moments after the shooting and DID NOT release it to accompany the convenience store video. If the video had no significance, why not release it and let the public decide?

#237 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wilson shot at him while he was running away. His buddy always said that he "thought" he might have been hit from behind, and the grazing wound may be consistent with that theory.
This is most likely what happened.

The officer shot, missing or grazing Brown.

Brown turned around to give up, and itch finger, fat, slob cop dumped in him undies, and emptied his clip.

Also, anyone is a thug if thats your perspective.

#238 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

What uneducated ---- thinks somebody in a supposed life and death situation can call his shots?
My guess is somebody that's never fired a gun at paper, let alone an animal or a human. [...]

#239 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

buzzpo.com

shot fired in car

#240 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

2. why riot only when this situation occurs? why not riot when a black man kills another black person? hmmm because they really don't give a ----, this just gives them an excuse.

See my comment that addressed a similar question from a different thread:

The same could be said of poor whites in Appalachia stuck in the poverty cycle of hootin'n'hollerin, moonshining, and slack-jawing. There's no way to clean up thems pigs and present them to society as-is.
#1 | POSTED BY DEADSPIN

There's one thing that the poor whites in Appalachia have going for them that significantly distinguishes them from blacks: they are white. And therefor, their communities are not subjected to the same detrimental effects of systemic racism (within the CJS) commonly associated with nonwhite communities.

POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2014-08-18 04:35 PM

www.drudge.com

#241 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

clownshack, really, why not shoot the legs? lol....he is trained to aim center mass......not everyone is a good a shot as Gibbs...
#235 | POSTED BY SCOOTER28054

Whats your intent Scooter?

To maim or to kill.

If it's to kill, then yea, aim center mass.

Also, shooting at someone usually prevents their desire to charge at you.

Where did Michael Brown's sudden desire to die come from?

He held up a liquor store. That doesn't mean he was looking to commit suicide by lead absorption.

#243 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

clownshack, the plaintiff paid for medical examiner stated the rounds did not enter from the back..........................
...............

#244 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Similarly, why is it that so many of the liberals on this site are knee-jerk in their defense of Michael Brown?

If anyone is reading my liberal position this way they're wrong. I don't presume Michael Brown was innocent in the altercation. Maybe the multiple witnesses who say he surrendered are lying and he did charge the cop.

But when the Ferguson police hide the cop's name, don't offer a full accounting of what the cop said he did and won't even tell the press how many times Brown was shot, there's a strong suspicion they are lying about the incident to protect their own.

#245 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

no you shoot center mass because that is the area most likely to hit the suspect to stop the action that is a danger to yourself or others....

#246 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson places the small box of cigars handed to him by Brown back onto the counter. He then turns walks out of the store with Brown behind him.

#236 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Thanks for pointing that out. I've never noticed that previously.

#247 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Where did Michael Brown's sudden desire to die come from?

Good question. If he was running away and turned around, it would be incredibly foolish to bull rush a cop 10-30 feet away who had already shot at him. He'd have to be on something like bath salts for that decision to be explicable.

#248 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

People say Brown got hit from the back because Wilson shot at him while he was fleeing, and THEN Brown turned around and was gunned dead.

#237 | Posted by tonyroma

No Tony. Piaget and Tiffany said Brown got hit in the back because of a specific body movement they saw.

#249 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rcade,
Why haven't the Feds released that info either. They're obviously involved, as is the State. Still no real info.

#250 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good question. If he was running away and turned around, it would be incredibly foolish to bull rush a cop 10-30 feet away who had already shot at him. He'd have to be on something like bath salts for that decision to be explicable.

well ask the guy that was heard on the video saying he doubled back and ran at the cop....geez.

#251 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-18 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I'm being shot at I keep running, not stop and face the gunfire.

#252 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Take a guess as to why law enforcement will NOT be charging Johnson with robbery over the cigar incident.

#236 | Posted by rstybeach11

I got that part already. He's still not useful as a witness, though, due to the huge holes in his account of the interaction with Wilson.

And, again, he has given too many interviews.

#253 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Both have Brown in a physical altercation at the squad car, including a shot fired

Do you have anything linking to the account of the gun shot going off in the squad car?

#234 | Posted by ClownShack

C'mon Clown. You're in here all full of vitriol and you don't know the first thing about the facts that have come out.

The video link I gave you with Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell has them talking about the shot going off during the car altercation.

Pardon me a moment while I cue up the exact moment in the video for you.

#254 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Clown --

Here's Tiffany Mitchell giving her account of the shot going off at the squad car:

youtu.be

I stared about 8 seconds before the shot, so try to be patient. Her account starts when she notices what turned out to be the tail end of the altercation at the car.

#255 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

At the 0:30 mark "Then the cop shot, fired through the window. Michael breaks away and ran."

#256 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think the clownguy has watched too many cop dramas. Theres no such thing as shooting to wound. Ever even fired a pistol? Heh if you wanna run with the autopsy results and let it narrate that he hit him 4 times superficially to try and stop him in the arm, the man kept rushing in after the warming shots so he put him down... that cops a damn good shot by your standards!

#258 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-08-18 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

He's still not useful as a witness, though, due to the huge holes in his account of the interaction with Wilson.

Doubt it. He was the closest to the altercation and he already proved he thought his friend was in the wrong in stealing the cigars. Actions speak louder than words. Didn't your mother teach you that?


(JEST! Meant in jest.)

#259 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

clownshack, the plaintiff paid for medical examiner stated the rounds did not enter from the back..........................
#244 | POSTED BY SCOOTER28054

I never contended this.

..............................

#260 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dorain Johnson's benchmark account is that Wilson started the altercation out of frustration because his vehicle door "ricocheted off us and bounced back to him" as Wilson attempted to exit his cruiser.

youtu.be

#261 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

what difference does it make whether a bullet actually hit is back or not? The point is the cop was definitely shooting at his back

#262 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2014-08-18 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I just saw an autopsy report in the L. A. Times and the shots in the arm look like they could have entered when the victims hands were raised.

This whole event and the NSA revelations should tell the public how far we have fallen.

#263 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-08-18 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

no you shoot center mass because that is the area most likely to hit the suspect to stop the action that is a danger to yourself or others....
#246 | POSTED BY SCOOTER28054 AT 2014-08-18 05:08 PM

I agree.

Our Police officers are incompetent at their jobs and couldn't aim their guns to protect their lives, therefore shoot center mass and unload your clip.

But I still assert, if you're trying to maim a person charging you, you go for the legs.

You have yet to explain why he would charge the police officer with his drawn.

Perhaps there was no reason to Michael Brown's actions.

Perhaps, because he's black, he doesn't abide by the same rules of logic white folks do.

I don't know. Why don't you explain why you'd charge a police officer with his gun drawn on you.

..............................

#264 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

#261 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

That's Johnson's interpretation of Wilson's and Brown's behavior. It's also, most likely, considered integral to determining what happened.

Could it be the 100% truth? Most likely not, as is the problem with ALL eye witness testimony. That doesn't mean it is ignored.

Let me ask you this, was Trayvon Martin's girlfriend ignored as a witness even though her story was full of holes?

#265 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Funny how you all are now re-writing the account..."Oh the officer shot him while he was running away and missed. So he turned and charged" REALLY ..you really want to go with that!...I have read some stupid justifications on this web site.

I have seen ignorance displayed in its full form and vigor. But I have NEVER seen such convoluted thought processes and twisting of facts to meet a narative that cannot be met.

The guy was a big punk, ripped off a store for cigars that he could fill and resell with pot, thought he was big ---- knocking the clerk out of the way. Attacked an officer after he walked down the middle of street and got his punk ass killed. Period. End of Story. No Race issue, No Cop out of control. Just another ------- dead end loser lying face down in the street because he would not get off his dead ass and work for a living.

But for political purposes to Gin up the base as the Democrats see the potential for slaughter in the fall and need to make race a major issue to get out the vote. Arn't you all a bit tired of being used? Of being jerked around by the Democratic party that has failed for the last 6 years? How sad to put the country through this and see many people hurt and businesses destroyed so the DEMS can control the Senate. Say BA Ba BA all you sheep.

#266 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-18 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You're in here all full of vitriol

Lol!

Slapping you guys on the back of your necks and watching you cry about it isn't full vitriol.

#267 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

262,
There is no "definitely" regarding your statement. Unless of course you have a secret source/video nobody else has.

#268 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 05:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just another ------- dead end loser lying face down in the street because he would not get off his dead ass and work for a living.

He's black. Do you know why the unemployment rate for you black males is so high? It's not because they are lazy.

There is no such thing as a lazy gene, no matter how badly you bigots want it to be true.

#269 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

you=young

#270 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Do you know why the unemployment rate for you black males is so high?"

why?

#271 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Read some of your stuff sometime. It's like you're some sort of clown.

#272 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

what difference does it make whether a bullet actually hit is back or not? The point is the cop was definitely shooting at his back

#262 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Wilson had already shot at Brown during the altercation at the vehicle, when Brown went for Wilson's gun.

#273 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

...So he turned and charged"

I don't believe he charged.

What ever led up prior to it, once the gun shot went off, Michael Brown turned around. After that, I don't believe he would attempt to charge the police officer.

No one has yet to explain why Michael Brown would charge the officer with a gun drawn on him at such a distance.

#274 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

well, regardless of how this turns out....Michael Brown is still dead.

We aren't getting rid of the police in part because of places like Ferguson, MO.

so....armed cops and ghettos.....nobody is going anywhere.

#275 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

why?
#271 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Because young black males are more likely to have been arrested, charged, and/or convicted of a crime. A person with a record is significantly less likely to find legitimate employment.

IOW, the systemic racism associated with the CJS is to blame for a significant portion of the unemployed black males (more specifically nonwhites) within our society. Their perceived only alternative to revenue generation becomes victimizing their own neighborhoods. Hence, those neighborhoods that experience higher rates of offender re-entry (i.e. nonwhite neighborhoods) experience heightened levels of property crime and unemployment.

The disproportionate policing of drug crimes in nonwhite neighborhoods is largely to blame.

#276 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is no "definitely" regarding your statement. Unless of course you have a secret source/video nobody else has.
#268 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

We're going by what you're going by, eye witness testimony.

Two accounts say a shot went off prior to Michael Brown turning around.

By your account, Michael Brown ran away, and for no reason turned around and started charging the cop.

#277 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

so....armed cops and ghettos.....nobody is going anywhere.
#275 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Shouldn't justify apathy in the face of an ever growing hyper-militarized police state (to which I include NSA).

#278 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dorian Johnson said that Wilson shot Brown at close range, during the altercation at the car:

youtu.be

#279 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

#275 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-08-18 05:48 PM

The result is going to be a more militarized police with less accountability.

#280 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Read some of your stuff sometime. It's like you're some sort of clown.
#272 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

WTF are you talking about? Trayvon Martin's girlfriend's story was full of holes. Yet she was a star witness. Why?

#281 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#279 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Why do you bother bringing it up if you do not deem Johnson credible?

#282 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 05:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Johnson's account, from the video interview at the scene:

"He [Brown] was shot -- there was blood coming from him. And we took off running."

#283 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The disproportionate policing of drug crimes in nonwhite neighborhoods is largely to blame."

Okay. Fair enough.

But we can blame the poverty, unemployment, violent crime, etc on the presence of the police in these neighborhoods all we want, but we aren't going to stop policing these neighborhoods (due to the violence) and hope that it will all calm down eventually because the young black men will get jobs (because we stopped arresting them).

don't get me wrong...I agree with the drug war and it's impact on the black community.....but let's move on to solutions (unless your solution is to just legalize drugs and hope things get better)

#284 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 05:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The result is going to be a more militarized police with less accountability."

....in ghettos

#285 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-18 05:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Baden's autopsy found no indication of a wound from short range.

#286 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's why Baden raised the question of gunshot residue on Brown's clothes or in the vehicle.

#287 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Trayvon Martin's girlfriend's story was full of holes. Yet she was a star witness. Why?

#281 | Posted by rstybeach11

Because that was all Crump had.

Her testimony did more harm than good.

It happens.

#288 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

And 6 shots? That is gonna be difficult for the PD to explain away. Even if this kid was a thug and a bully, 6 shots including two to the head? This cop went overboard imo.

#2 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2014-08-18 11:12 AM | REPLY | FLAG

See when you spew nonsense like this, it makes me doubt you're actually a lawyer. That's what they are trained to do. You can't be a practicing defense lawyer and not know this.

It's like back when Vernon claimed he lived entirely on offgrid power by being frugal with his consumption, and then claimed he uses incandescent bulbs. The two things are mutually exclusive.

#289 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-08-18 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I'm being shot at I keep running, not stop and face the gunfire.
#252 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE AT 2014-08-18 05:14 PM

Only intelligent post you made on this entire thread. Sorry I missed it.

You could keep running while being shot at and hope to dodge all the bullets.

Or.

You could turn around and attempt to surrender.

Either way.

We both agree it would be ludicrous to charge the person shooting at you.

#290 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-18 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you're getting charged by someone why shoot the arm and not the legs?
#230 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2014-08-18 04:52 PM | FLAG:

Shooting to wound is a fallacy. When shooting you aim for center mass. Under rapid fire recoil often causes the muzzle to rise, hence the shots climb upwards from the first one.

A concealed carry class would help fix some of your misconceptions. You don't have to use it afterward, but you would have some first hand experience on what is taught in regards to shooting in self-defense.

#291 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-08-18 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

during the altercation at the vehicle, when Brown went for Wilson's gun.
#273 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Thought you were just keeping score, though here you are stating the officers account of the senernio as though it's established fact.

Like a shirtless, face painter running around aimlessly with the football. (That was just to keep the metaphor going.)

#292 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-18 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's what they are trained to do.

Whether the cop was "trained" to do what he did depends on what he did. If Brown was fleeing or surrendering, he wasn't "trained" to empty his gun into him. Instead, he was committing murder.

#293 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It happens.
#288 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Which should tell you something about the possibility of Johnson being used as a witness in this case.

You don't know the intentions of the DA. For all you know, he/she is interested in rooting out cops perceived as racist.

My point is Johnson has a good chance of being a witness considering his actions at the liquor store and his proximity to the altercation.

#294 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 06:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

GREAT comments from Jason Riley of the WSJ on Special Report...............

"I know something about growing up black in the inner city and it's easy to keep from getting shot by the cops. You get stopped and you answer their questions. It's a lot HARDER to keep from getting shot by OTHER BLACK MEN." .....

BRAVO SIR !!!!!

#295 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Things will get interesting tonight as New Black Panthers and Nation of Islam are joining in the rallys

Heres nice one of "protesting for justice"

www.youtube.com

"who do we want"
"darren wilson"
"how do we want him?"
"dead"

#296 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 06:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

RCADE do you really think he was surrendering given that the shot autopsy shows he had his head down and he died in the direction of the officer??

Really? Why are you guys searching for a way to blame the cops? They put theirs lives in the line every day to protect people and yet you guys always second guess them. Always take the side of the criminal? I do not get it. You would rather twist yourself in logic knots that to see what is staring you in the face.

I have yet for any if you it answer the question- without the ability to bear arms how could the community protect itself after the police pulled out for two days?

#297 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-18 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dude, I'm totally wearing a shirt.

There was an altercation involving a gun and the gun went off, right?

#298 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

My point is Johnson has a good chance of being a witness considering his actions at the liquor store and his proximity to the altercation.

#294 | Posted by rstybeach11

Oh, he'll be a witness alright.

#299 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-18 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#296 | POSTED BY AESCAL

[A] collection of organizations, including the New Black Panther Party, the Nation of Islam, Black Lawyers for Justice and other pro-black organizations have stepped up efforts to court peace and accord among the young people here. They've recruited volunteers to help get folks off the streets by sunset; they're trying to arrange a town hall-style youth meeting; but most of all, they are trying to harness the energy of a generation that they believe is self-destructive and hampering the movement for justice in Brown's killing. www.msnbc.com

New Black Panther representative interviewed on CNN stated they were pushing people to protest until sunset and then go home.

But, no, your preconceived notion will blind you from this, won't it?

#300 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 07:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's a lot HARDER to keep from getting shot by OTHER BLACK MEN." .....
BRAVO SIR !!!!!

#295 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

You should really consider reading The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander.

It would really expand your perspective on this matter.

#301 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 07:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

#300 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

So, I went out and hired actors and staged these chants? Or did they not happen? Or is it an older rally in another part of the country with another individual named Darren Wilson? If something does happen I doubt it will be at the hands and responsibility of a certain organization, but having them there will entice the do-no-gooders to act in their name. Example, the journalist shot in drive by 2 nights ago, MSM isnt even mentioning, or the blogger who was beaten and robbed of his phone and tablet in the middle of the crowd.

#302 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-18 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's a lot HARDER to keep from getting shot by OTHER BLACK MEN." .....

BRAVO SIR !!!!!

Yeah, when I'm strolling down the street with my drawers hanging out, I'm always worried about some dun rollin' down on me, telling me to "get my ***** [donkey] out the street". Playa, [dreck] don't happen like dat! If my homie pull up on me pimpin' down the yellow, playboy and I exchange "Wazz Up my *****!" as we gyrate the super-secret, anti-white fist bump/bro-hug and gratuitous gang signs. We bump heads together listening to the deepest bass from the monster speakers in the trunk, and clink our 40's together thumping with the beat.

Then he pulls away in his S65 AMG going to the Hamptons and I jump into my Jaguar and head to my investment bank on Wall Street.

#303 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

So, I went out and hired actors and staged these chants?

No, but you lazily interpreted the title of a youtube video as proof of anything, especially coming from a random youtube poster who completely plagiarized the video's summary from www.breitbart.com When was the video made? Where? Are you sure the man with the megaphone is a Black Panther/Nation of Islam? Answers: you don't know; you don't know; and no, you are not sure.

One guy with a megaphone wearing black chanting Death to Darren Wilson (paraphrase) equates New Black Panthers and Nation of Islam stoking violence?

Sorry, not convincing considering the rhetoric coming from the two groups today.

#304 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Turns out Brown probably had Marijuana in his system...
County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system
www.washingtonpost.com
#133 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

I see. And your position is that he mistook the officer for a bag of Cheetos.

#305 | Posted by Sycophant at 2014-08-18 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

You should really consider reading The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander.

It would really expand your perspective on this matter.

#301 | Posted by rstybeach11 a

yeah,...no thanks...soon as it says the 'new jim crow' ....that's all for me...

#306 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Then he pulls away in his S65 AMG going to the Hamptons and I jump into my Jaguar and head to my investment bank on Wall Street.

#303 | Posted by tonyroma at 201

ahhhh ah ha ha ha ha ha ha....still laughing.....

not AT you but with you...funny stuff....good line.. !!

but when I posted this on another site I added something....the following..

I would not presume to know what it's like to be a young black kid in the inner city, BUT this man did,......

his point is simple...they all have a choice....somewhere at some point....

#307 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

[...] Sure seems like lots of folks are here trying to justify why a police officer shot and killed a black kid for Jaywalking.

I am sorry. I just don't get it. Jaywalking is not a crime punishable by death no matter how you spin it. I am pretty sure if it was your child laying on that slab you would feel completely different.

#308 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-18 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Video Killed Trust in Police Officers

In [an] item from The Federalist quoted at the beginning of this article, Hans Fiene urges conservatives who reflexively trust the police to show a bit more skepticism. "Police brutality is not the Bogeyman," he writes. "It's not an urban legend witnessed by none but told by many. It's not a myth created by a primitive tribe that is too simple to understand the true source of the brokenness in its communities. Black people believe in police brutality for the same reason they believe in rain -- because they've felt it ... For those of us who have never experienced law enforcement corrupted by power, basic human decency should require that we try to understand and consider the perspective of those who have..."

That's true. But trusting that minority groups aren't fabricating police misconduct isn't even as necessary as it was for, say, the white suburbanite of 1985, limited by what he'd seen with his eyes, read in the local paper, or watched on CBS. Any doubt that excessive force by law enforcement is a widespread problem can now be laid to rest in a single hour with nothing more than access to YouTube.

Start here or here or here. Or here. Or here. Or here. If you keep searching, you'll come to the conclusion that this sort of violence is epidemic long before you run out of video confirmation. Then remember the vast majority of these incidents are never videotaped.

The answer isn't to stop respecting all police officers, or to assume that any allegation of police misconduct is true. Even officers involved in suspicious killings, like the one in Ferguson, Missouri, deserve a fair hearing from the public. No one knows for sure what happened when Mike Brown was killed, and while the reaction of local police to protesters does not inspire confidence, the objective ought to be an impartial, accurate investigation by a credible, independent party.

But in the age of YouTube and Google, where police brutality can be seen from the comfort of one's home, along with documentation from dozens of serious law enforcement scandals, there is no longer any valid excuse for being blind to bad cops generally, or denying the possibility that an officer could have callously killed an unarmed man.

In my generation, an increasing number of people will reach the conclusion that when a dispute arises pitting the word of law enforcement against the word of the policed, they ought to be on equal footing -- disputes should be adjudicated by dispassionately weighing the available evidence, not reflexively giving police officers a benefit of the doubt that their profession, as a collective, has not earned (although you wouldn't know it from police brass, judges, and district attorneys). As the police continue to lose the trust of the public, due largely to documented instances of bad behavior by fellow officers, as well as law enforcement's longstanding inability to police themselves, I suspect that more and more good cops will be clamoring for cameras on their dashboards and lapels. Until then, citizens ought to record police during every incident as it unfolds. Doing so will bring vindication to good cops and indictments of bad cops.

Don't trust. Verify.

www.theatlantic.com

#309 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 08:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Jaywalking is not a crime punishable by death no matter how you spin it"

Little Michael wasn't shot for jaywalking. DUH! Liberal spin just got a whole bunch of people killed. Nice going idiots.

#310 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-08-18 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They put theirs lives in the line every day to protect people"

IN this case from a dangerous jay walker, the cop didn't even know of any other crime Brown might have committed. Thank God they were there, jay walkers are a huge threat to society.

#311 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-18 08:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

yeah,...no thanks...soon as it says the 'new jim crow' ....that's all for me...
#306 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Ignorance is not bliss. The book is nonfiction, academic research. Take a look. If you don't, you choose ignorance regarding objective, factual data.

Not a good look for you.

#312 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 08:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

277/clown,
I'm going by the coroner report and the video of that dead thief, Brown. Please, you have a hard enough time speaking for yourself, don't worry about pretending to speak for me.

#313 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 08:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

IN this case from a dangerous jay walker, the cop didn't even know of any other crime Brown might have committed. Thank God they were there, jay walkers are a huge threat to society.

#311 | Posted by danni at

I will NOT believe that you fell for that...YOU MUST be pulling some sort of little joke....

or perhaps you were listening to al sharpton PREACH FOR HATE like I just did.....

#314 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ignorance is not bliss. The book is nonfiction, academic research. Take a look. If you don't, you choose ignorance regarding objective, factual data.

Not a good look for you.

#312 | Posted by rstybeach11 at

yeah yeah yeah,...if get to it....my reading list has grown since the new chick got to the reading club....have to make sure I'm prepared to debate her and LET HER WIN,...IF YA KNOW WHATTA MEAN ??

#315 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Little Michael wasn't shot for jaywalking. DUH! Liberal spin just got a whole bunch of people killed. Nice going idiots.

#310 | Posted by sames1

He was stopped for jaywalking. Now he is dead. And the whole town is in an uproar and the situation is so out of hand they have to call in the National Guard.

Nice going idiots.

#316 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-18 08:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

NOW REPORT IS THAT MEDIA has found the cops house and has some sort of map to it...

I hope he had fire insurance and a good home owners' policy because these ANIMALS are on the loose!!!

CNN broadcast a report Friday that showed the house, including the street number, of the Ferguson police officer who police say shot Mike Brown. The officer has been in hiding due to death threats since the shooting last Saturday. His name, Darren Wilson, was just released Friday morning.

Another news outlet apologized for broadcasting video of Wilson's home while others have virtually drawn a map to Wilson's house for those bent on vengeance.

Yahoo News named the community Wilson where Wilson resides and published a photograph of the officer.

The UK Daily Mail also named the community, posted photos of the officer and gave a description of the house.

USA Today also named the community and reported a local police presence.

The Washington Post named the street where Wilson lives.

#317 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

RCADE do you really think he was surrendering given that the shot autopsy shows he had his head down and he died in the direction of the officer?

The autopsy doesn't show he was charging. It shows only that his head was tilted slightly down. Stop making false assumptions about the evidence to fit your cops-are-never-wrong agenda.

#318 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 08:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

the eye witness that, much like the treyvon witness, has backfired here again because of the facts.

he went after the officer....and it doesn't matter if he was accused of looking funny.....he tried some hero, macho he-man BS and he got himself killed over it. So you guys keep dreaming up some fantasy....

Im gonna watch JOHNNY and III and hope johnny sprains his ankle....

#320 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

The people that mindlessly talk about the jaywalking as if it was why he was shot would be the same goofs that claim that David berkowitz is in jail because of his parking tickets.

#321 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-18 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I would not presume to know what it's like to be a young black kid Police Officer in the inner city, BUT this man did,......

his point is simple...they all have a choice....somewhere at some point....

#307 | Posted by afkabl2

Officer Wilson made his choice that day and now he (and we) all have to live with it and deal with it. He may need to leave town and never be able to work in that town again. But Michael Brown is dead and he won't be doing anything ever again. Yes...Our actions have consequences. But, there seems to be an unresolved fairness issue here. It really looks like the police overreacted and then overreacted again to cover up for one of their own.

So now they need to call in the National Guard to restore the peace.

Total honesty and transparency and open communications by the police department with the family and the community may have prevented all this. They were obviously afraid of what would happen. In a sense that is good. Government should fear the People. Right now the People fear (and do not trust) the Government (especially Black People) and this is not a healthy relationship as it turns out.

#322 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-18 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

have to make sure I'm prepared to debate her and LET HER WIN,...IF YA KNOW WHATTA MEAN ??
#315 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Fair enough.

#323 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-18 09:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

the fact is DONNER...you nor anyone else HERE has a CLUE what happened. People like sally kohn who was tweeting that the "KID" was shot in the back...and called that a FACT....
so don't give me all this blah blah blah because you don't know...I don't know...and the people who are there causing trouble DON"T KNOW EITHER...

#324 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

BUT I just heard an interview with a woman named JOSIE who for some reason was giving the cops side of the story...can't imagine that his defense is happy with that..

BUT IF what she says is true, then this man sized 18 year old caused his own death by making very poor decisions.

AND nothing any of you have said makes a case for the crooks and thieves to steal and destroy innocent peoples business who in many cases I would imagine used life savings to get....but they really don't matter to anyone here or there in the streets causing more trouble.

#325 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-18 09:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

the fact is DONNER...you nor anyone else HERE has a CLUE what happened.

You don't either, but you keep acting like you have all the answers with comments like "he went after the officer."

#326 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-18 09:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

the fact is DONNER...you nor anyone else HERE has a CLUE what happened.

The fact is, I am working with the same clues as you and everyone else.

Which is the point.

Open communications and transparency between the police and the community would have helped to everyone reach resolution to this tragedy so much faster. Instead they have dragged it out torturing the family and sending the community into a rage. There were obviously already open wounds in that community that still need to be healed.

"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

#331 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-18 11:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow. Took me a while to read this whole thread.

I don't blindly trust the police. I have seen police brutality and abuse of power first hand on many occasions. When I was in my late teens one of my friends, a 15 year old female runaway, was raped by a local cop that stopped her for a "routine ID check". He went to prison for it as she wasn't the only one he had done that to. I myself and other friends were harassed, bullied, had our rights trampled on, and/or were beaten by cops at various times. I see numerous videos of abuse by police on a regular basis, and while I am not an anarchist I am against the amount of power continually being given to our police force at the expense of the public and their freedoms.

On the other hand I know quite a number of truly good people that are police officers and are in the job to serve and protect. Their jobs are difficult, dangerous, and all to often done without thanks or consideration from those they help. I know that sometimes the lines between the two can be rather hazy and not as cut and dried as the ones on the receiving end would have you believe.

I have been on the fence about this case for a while but as the picture becomes more clear as new evidence surfaces a picture is starting to take shape. My first inclination was that this was a more fatal version of Rodney King. While I was disgusted by the rioting, and especially the looting, I also was inclined to believe that the police were at fault for Brown's wrongful death. This was enhanced as I heard how they were handling the riots. Now though, while I haven't firmly settled on the cop's side for the shooting, I am inclined to believe it may have been justified.

1) At least one witness that has been widely quoted says the cop couldn't get his door open and tried to grab Brown's neck and pull him into the car. Anyone that is familiar with police training will know that account sounds fishy right off the bat. Cops are trained to keep people away from their vehicle (especially the windows) when they are seated inside especially in a combative situation. The reason is simple... they (the cops) in that situation are limited in motion and confined in space. The potential opponent is not confined. In addition the cop has NO leverage against a standing opponent. Even if the cop did try to pull the opponent into the car through the window, that opponent would then be on top of the cop.

2) How does a cop seated in his vehicle with the door shut even reach the neck of a 6'4" person unless they are leaning in the window?

3) The witnesses say Brown was shot in the back. He wasn't, as the autopsy shows.

4) The witness Johnson says they were "face to face" for the final shots. This doesn't sound like there wasn't much distance, if any, between them. A distance of 2 1/2 feet (30") or less would have shown stippling in the wounds. ( www.pathologyexpert.com ) But we know this wasn't present from the autopsy. While you can beg ambiguous choice of words (face to face) and that he actually meant a greater distance between them, there is enough contradictions and unlikeliness in the story to call the veracity of the witness into question.

5) The autopsy facts so far seem to line up perfectly with the story from the cop. While not all the facts are known, or at least haven't been made public, what IS known so far doesn't contradict the cops story at all, but does contradict some of the statements of the various opposing witnesses. All things being equal it looks more likely at this point that the cops version of events are closer to the truth.

#332 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 12:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

To add to that:

6) I see no way to get two shots through the head, one through the top and one through the eye that travels down through the jaw and collar then into the arms in a likely scenario with them standing "face to face" and the only other wounds being in the arm and on the hand. With a 6'4" person the head tilt to expose the top of the head to an average height person would have to be more than casual. While it could POSSIBLY be done while the person is going down to the pavement in surrender, that is such a difficult shot because of the verticle movement of the head that I can't see two shots hitting home especially since the first shot would likely have removed any controls on Brown's decent to the ground. These two shots seem much more likely if Brown was charging towards him head down in a "tackle" position. In that case forward momentum would continue for the split second needed to fire the second shot and there is no vertical movement to cause the need to adjust aim. Horizontal and vertical aim doesn't change on a rushing target. The only thing that changes is the size of the target... it actually gets easier the closer they get.

The idea that the hand and arm wounds being received, as Rcade suggested, by having his hands over his head seem unlikely and unnatural. Cops are trained to shoot center mass, or as a last resort, to the head. With arms up that would place the hands even with the head while standing up, or even above the head level. There is no evidence to suggest the cop was or even would aim that high. Indeed the only time we know the head was fired at it was hit... in the crown, which suggests an entirely different orientation for the head as mentioned above. I would hazard the guess that the hand was grazed by a bullet that hit him elsewhere. In a "charging" situation the hands and forearms don't move straight foreward and straight back. Instead they have a cross-cut motion over the front of the body. The more power put in to the run the greater the height and swathe of this motion. With head down as if charging in headbutt fashion the hands could easily come up to head level and would most certain cross over the "center mass" area.

I see nothing in the details that have been made public to contradict the story of the cops, and more than enough to cause doubt on the "witnesses".

#333 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 12:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"There is no evidence to suggest the cop was or even would aim that high."

There is also no evidence that his bullets were going where he was "aiming" them.

Aiming at something and hitting it are two different things.

#334 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-19 12:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

There is also no evidence that his bullets were going where he was "aiming" them.

No reason to think with a trained shooter that they weren't either. All things being equal I will side with training, the common sense that he was looking for a lethal shot at that point per his statement, and that he actually hit lethally.

To follow this other scenario you have to stretch, make assumptions, and ignore how police are trained to shoot.

In other words, to believe that his bullets weren't going where he aimed in the scenario presented by the witness with a docile, surrendering suspect, and at fairly close range ("face to face")... you pretty much have to WANT to believe that the cop ignored all his training and common sense and just started firing almost blindly and hectically. All with nothing but your own supposition to go on.

#335 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 12:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why were 6 shots fired to begin with? And those were only the ones that hit the victim. Cops aren't suppose to aim a gun at unarmed civilians to begin with. Suspect or not.

Everything else you say doesn't make a difference until you can answer the question on why were 6 shots fired from his gun at an unarmed civilian. Suspect in a crime or not cops are not allowed to take out their guns and aim it at unarmed civilians.

Put yourself in his shoes when you were 18. Think of all the stupid crap you did. Now imagine a cop aiming a gun at you and shooting you 6 times because of that stupid thing you did.

The cop should be arrested and charged for murder. Simple as that. He needs to be made an example of for other cops that abuse their power and use excessive force.

#336 | Posted by pragmatous at 2014-08-19 12:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Michael Brown, just another man guilty of being black in America.

#337 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 12:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why were 6 shots fired to begin with?

Because that is how many it took to stop the threat.

And those were only the ones that hit the victim.

Not so unique, especially for someone that is trained to shot accurately and quickly under stressful conditions.

Cops aren't suppose to aim a gun at unarmed civilians to begin with. Suspect or not.

Wrong. If the suspect has presented themselves as a danger then lethal force can be used.

Put yourself in his shoes when you were 18. Think of all the stupid crap you did.

I already told you what I saw when I was 18 at the beginning of my first post. At 18 I knew you don't go for a cops gun. I knew that you don't rush at a cop. I knew then that it was a lethal thing to do that would not end well for me. At 18 I had already had a gun pointed at me twice. Once by a cop when one of my neighbors called them thinking I was breaking into a house (it was the apartment that I lived in), and once when an old man didn't like the fact that I cut through his yard. A smart person is respectful and careful around a person with a drawn weapon.

Everything else you say doesn't make a difference until you can answer the question on why were 6 shots fired from his gun at an unarmed civilian.

I have answered that. So have others. Of course it doesn't matter what we say. You won't accept it no matter what it is because it contradicts your position on the issue.

After reading all your posts on this thread I am forcibly reminded of another famous troll that would never back down, took the most ridiculous positions on issues, ignored any evidence that contradicted him, had no concept of real logic or common sense, and was condescending to anyone that questioned him. I find myself wondering if you are just BuffaloBob with a different handle.

#338 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 01:14 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Sorry Prag... that last paragraph was actually aimed at a Clownshack. I somehow missed your byline on your comment and saw his instead.

#339 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 01:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

So, this morning we're hearing the police have a dozen witnesses who corroborate that Brown bullrushed Wilson, who had pursued on foot and was fairly close to Brown.

Why exactly the cops haven't been able to get their account out to the public isn't clear -- the requirements and constraints on the police disclosure is worth a few threads in and of itself, but there isn't much factual reporting available to comment on.

The Brown family's witnesses have been giving interview after interview, which is a great way to wreck their ability to testify. Crump, Jackson, Sharpton, anybody should have given guidance to these witnesses to speak through their lawyers. That's why lawyers are called 'mouthpieces.'

The cops have lost a lot of ground in the public relations battle but they are fighting a complicated legal battle that requires long term strategy. As the days go by the cop's position seems to strengthen, while the 'jaywalker executed' storyline -- shockingly heinous, if true -- has taken serious blows.

#340 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 08:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

You could keep running while being shot at and hope to dodge all the bullets.

Or.

You could turn around and attempt to surrender.

Either way.

We both agree it would be ludicrous to charge the person shooting at you.

#290 | Posted by ClownShack

No one has yet to explain why Michael Brown would charge the officer with a gun drawn on him at such a distance.

#274 | Posted by ClownShack

The distance is the key element here. It's the police cruiser that was 30-35 feet from Brown's body but after chasing Brown on foot, Wilson wasn't shooting from the cruiser but from a much closer distance.

#342 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 09:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

Here's an account that CNN reports:

"Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.

"Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, said the caller, who identified herself as the officer's friend."

www.cnn.com

Now, this is just a caller to a radio show. It remains to be seen if a dozen corroborating witnesses come forward -- or even one.

The account makes sense of what we know of the cop's version.

#344 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 09:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why were 6 shots fired to begin with?
Because cops are trained to shoot till the threat is down.

Cops aren't suppose to aim a gun at unarmed civilians to begin with.
Cops drawn their weapons regularly on all possible threats. And supposedly, Brown has already proven he's a threat to the officer by previously going for his gun. That alone raises the threat level.

#345 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-08-19 09:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

here's a local case of a Deputy Sheriff shooting and killing a knife wielding 18 year-old girl back in June.

"Deputy Trieu retreated as Serrano-Garcia came toward him and repeatedly told her to drop her weapon but she continued running toward him with the knife poised, ready to strike, [DA] Wagstaffe said.

Trieu was in fear for his life and shot the teen once, striking her in the chest, according to the district attorney."

It took eight weeks for the DA to decide not to charge the Deputy. Jackson and Sharpton's exhortations for immediate charges against Wilson are irresponsible.

news.kron4.com

#346 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

#318 That is a very unfair and uncharitable slandering of the individuals actual position. He is discussing the matter from a preponderance of evidence in a comprehensive case scenario that differs from the way you view the evidence. You don't have to malign his views simply because you disagree.

I notice some people getting upset regarding the police claiming to have witness statements backing up the alleged story from the officer who discharged his weapon and killed Brown. I hope these people are intelligent enough to realize that the police DO NOT release witness statements, most times, in order to control the information that is public so that other witness statements are not tainted by the information they hear from another witness.

This is the reason they keep witnesses separate and try not to let them talk to each other before giving their statement, etc. It is a protective measure to make sure you get to the truth. You want as many different testimonies as possible, that way you can more easily weed out the inaccurate information. The police will NOT be releasing witness accounts that they have gathered in their investigation until it is completed. It is logical and sensible, not some conspiracy theory in order to foster collusion.

#347 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-19 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#318 That is a very unfair and uncharitable slandering of the individuals actual position. He is discussing the matter from a preponderance of evidence in a comprehensive case scenario that differs from the way you view the evidence. You don't have to malign his views simply because you disagree.

#347 | POSTED BY HEURISTICGRATIS

Unfortunately he does...see: Martin, Trayvon

His piousness on the matter was like the word of God.

I think he thinks it's his purpose in life after climate change of course.

#348 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Im gonna watch JOHNNY and III and hope johnny sprains his ankle....

#320 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Your wish almost came true, and with his Hawaiian good luck gesture to the Washington Wagon Burners' sidelines the target on him only grows.

PS Clowney is God.

#349 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

I fully understand that this poor poor child was shot and I"m also so very sure that he was just 'jaywalking' and NEVER really shoved the little old lady in the store..that HAD to be a clip from fox news...and I further know the two law enforcement officers who just yesterday told me that FISTS are weapons...well they just can't be right even with almost 50 years of experience on the job...

well this report must also be one of those FOX THINGS....you know....

www.thegatewaypundit.com

#350 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

PS Clowney is God.

#349 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

In the 2012 Outback Bowl Taylor Lewan completely neutralized him. He had one huge play where he tore Vincent Smith's head off but Lewan wasn't even in on that play.

He's very talented but he's not all-world.

#351 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-08-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

the fact is DONNER...you nor anyone else HERE has a CLUE what happened.

You don't either, but you keep acting like you have all the answers with comments like "he went after the officer."

#326 | Posted by rcade at 2014-0

I would hope that you as a poster AND the person in charge might set a better example for the rest of us before you write things that are gross distortions

...........if you would look again you will see the words...and I quote

"you don't know...I don't know"..

thank you..

#352 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

PS Clowney is God.

#349 | Posted by tontonmacoute a

so far, so good....friends of mine there last saturday said the place went nuts..

and remember that was with NO JJ or CUSHING in the middle....the DB"S are the key and then the only other thing is how many points the "D" can score...cause everyone knows the offense sucks !!

#353 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 12:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

but he's not all-world.

#351 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

A post that will live in infamy!

(But he's not all-world) will go from one victory to the next leaving fire in his wake. Yea I say unto you; But the hour cometh, and now is - already the day has dawned.

#354 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#344 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Let's be clear, this account is not from a witness. It was from a friend of the officer's. She was not there. She is repeating was she claims the officer shared with her. Again, not a witness. Please stop referring to her as such.

#350 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

The clerk was a man you big dummy.
-Fred Sandford

#355 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-19 12:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's be clear, this account is not from a witness. It was from a friend of the officer's. She was not there. She is repeating was she claims the officer shared with her. Again, not a witness. Please stop referring to her as such.

#355 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Roger that. I only referred to it as "an account:"

Here's an account that CNN reports:
"Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.
"Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, said the caller, who identified herself as the officer's friend."
www.cnn.com

Now, this is just a caller to a radio show. It remains to be seen if a dozen corroborating witnesses come forward -- or even one.

The account makes sense of what we know of the cop's version.

#344 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

#356 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

The clerk was a man you big dummy.
-Fred Sandford

#355 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

LOL I thought the clerk was an old lady too. Poor dude is getting a rough go for his 15 minutes of fame.

#357 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson
Suffered "Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye
Socket" During Mike Brown Attack

#358 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an "orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket." This comes from a source within the District Attorney's office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

#359 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

After reading all your posts on this thread I am forcibly reminded of another famous troll that would never back down, took the most ridiculous positions on issues, ignored any evidence that contradicted him, had no concept of real logic or common sense, and was condescending to anyone that questioned him. I find myself wondering if you are just BuffaloBob with a different handle.
#338 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL AT 2014-08-19 01:14 AM

You thought BuffaloBob was a troll!! LOL!!! I always saw him as a bit misguided and delusional.

I guess you believe Goatman was always his hapless victim.

LOL!!

Reality and the right are always miles apart.

Why don't you use all that logic you claim to have to see if you can figure out whether or not BuffaloBob and I are the same person.

I mean, how many other posters on the DR can I be? Possibly all of them. I guess you'll never know.

#360 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

The distance is the key element here. It's the police cruiser that was 30-35 feet from Brown's body but after chasing Brown on foot, Wilson wasn't shooting from the cruiser but from a much closer distance.
#342 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

How much closer?

Because the only thing we all agree on is no one would charge at a man shooting a gun at them.

#361 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

PS Clowney is God.
#349 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

Well said.

#362 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fresh from cleaning the sand of his face, he is back for more...

Let me guess, you're still not up to speed on the subject matter you plan on pontificating on?

#363 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-08-19 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Fresh from cleaning the sand of his face, he is back for more...

I guess that what you do when you spend time away from the DR...

the rest of us call it living our lives.

Let me guess, you're still not up to speed on the subject matter you plan on pontificating on?
#363 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

No counselor, why don't you bring us all up to date on the facts.

"Black thug criminal got what he deserved"

I think I summed up your whole position on this topic in one sentence.

It's easy reading people with a static personality.

#364 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

PS Clowney is God.
#349 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE
Well said.

#362 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

You know God and dog are spelled with the same letters too.

#365 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know God and dog are spelled with the same letters too.
#365 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

You know Apples are red and Oranges are orange?

#366 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

The distance is the key element here. It's the police cruiser that was 30-35 feet from Brown's body but after chasing Brown on foot, Wilson wasn't shooting from the cruiser but from a much closer distance.

#342 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

How much closer?
Because the only thing we all agree on is no one would charge at a man shooting a gun at them.

#361 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Geez, Clown. If you would read just a little more you would see that one "account" has Brown falling dead within a few feet of Wilson.

In case you missed it earlier, there was a bystander at the scene who was talking about Brown bullrushing Wilson.

Also, there is rumor that the police have up to a dozen more corroborating witnesses.

Also, there is an unconfirmed report of a leak from the police that says Brown broke Wilson's eye socket.

In other news, 101Chairborne has been kicking you in the p---y.

#367 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So I guess while he was shooting the man in the back while he was surrendering, his gun must have kicked back and fractured his orbital socket."

#368 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.youtube.com
@6:28/6:29 of video
#1 How'd he get from there to there?
#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
{crosstalk}
#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
{crosstalk}
#2 Then the next thing I know he coming back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –
#1. Oh, the police got his gun
#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I'm thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
{crosstalk}
#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing
#1 The Police?
#2 The Police shot him
#1 Police?

Interesting. The long version on youtube from yesterday is now private.

#369 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So I guess while he was shooting the man in the back while he was surrendering, his gun must have kicked back and fractured his orbital socket."

#368 | POSTED BY TONTONMACOUTE

Maybe Wilson broke his eye socket when he flubbed opening his car door. Remember how the door ricocheted off Brown and Johnson and "bounced back at him?"

#370 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

In other news, 101Chairborne has been kicking you in the p---y.
#367 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH AT 2014-08-19 01:35 PM | FLAG:

I have no clue as to what you are insinuating.

Care to expand on your opinion?

#371 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

I believe he ran his face into a tree like Corky said Zimmerman may have done in an attempt to cover for the murder.

#372 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Also, there is an unconfirmed report of a leak from the police that says Brown broke Wilson's eye socket.

Karma.

And it's just started.

Wilson will soon to be the next Zimmerman.

Celebrated by a racist white society that will soon forget him and hated by the rest of America that will always hate him.

How's Zimmerman been doing? You send him money lately?

Lol.

#373 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

You thought BuffaloBob was a troll!! LOL!!! I always saw him as a bit misguided and delusional.

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive.

I guess you believe Goatman was always his hapless victim.

You would guess wrong. While I liked Goatman, he certainly had trollish tendencies at times.

Reality and the right are always miles apart.

After seeing how you judge reality I will take your assessment with a salt mine.

Why don't you use all that logic you claim to have to see if you can figure out whether or not BuffaloBob and I are the same person.

Don't care enough to go through the effort even if it were possible. I simply noted the apparent similarities.

#374 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Funny how no one has ever missed Tonto for any reason at all.

#376 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-19 01:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

fully realizing that NONE of these will make a difference among the usual suspects...that includes many here....but there seems to be some information coming out of this town that's gonna REALLY upset those who are promoting violence and even those there for legitimate protest....

but as I just heard on the radio...this cop will get 'fried' anyway...truth or not..

dcgazette.com

#377 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Celebrated by a racist white society that will soon forget him and hated by the rest of America that will always hate him.
How's (White Hispanic Obama voting Democrat registered) Zimmerman been doing? You send him money lately?
Lol.

#373 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

This year where off and running with "The Michael Brown Clownshow!"

Thanks Clown, you're the best! One can only hope for the hours and hours you will pour into this production & perhaps that you will get to compete head to head with Corky. Then with RCADE's endorsement, the ratings are going to soar! The kids here are all going to just love it!

#378 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

#350 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

The clerk was a man you big dummy.
-Fred Sandford

#355 | Posted by memyselfini at 201

POP....you might want to get those eyes checked....on his way out he shoved a little woman.....

but LETS ASK GRADY....

lol

#379 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

we're

#380 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-19 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's be clear, this account is not from a witness. It was from a friend of the officer's. She was not there. She is repeating was she claims the officer shared with her. Again, not a witness. Please stop referring to her as such.

#355 | POSTED BY MEMYSELFINI

Roger that. I only referred to it as "an account:"

sorry I didn't include this part with previous post...please allow my to refer you to post 377 where the number of EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS is now up to 12....

thank you for your continued support in this matter...

( oh NO....the teacher's coming out in me again....must be first day coming up.. )

lol

#381 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

( oh NO....the teacher's coming out in me again....must be first day coming up.. )
lol

#381 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

I thought you were retired. What class do (did) you teach?

#382 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-08-19 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wilson will soon to be the next Zimmerman.

Celebrated by a racist white society that will soon forget him and hated by the rest of America that will always hate him.

How's Zimmerman been doing? You send him money lately?

Lol.

#373 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014

really...this man protecting his city ? absurd..ridiculous....

once again, you reach new heights.....and I don't mean in a good way

#383 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't care enough to go through the effort even if it were possible. I simply noted the apparent similarities.
#374 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL AT 2014-08-19 01:55 PM

You made an asinine comment and now you're backpedaling.

Well done sir.

Well done.

#384 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

this man protecting his city ? absurd..ridiculous....
once again, you reach new heights.....and I don't mean in a good way
#383 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Are you asking me a question?

Once again, your grammar and punctuation leaves the reader clueless as to your point.

Sad thing is, you're probably the most literate Tea Party member in Texas.

#385 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

You made an asinine comment and now you're backpedaling.

Well done sir.

Well done.

#384 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:19 PM

Sure, whatever makes you feel good.

#386 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sure, whatever makes you feel good.
#386 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL

It did make me feel good.

thanks.

#387 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

It did make me feel good.

thanks.

#387 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:23 PM

Well isn't that special.

#388 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well isn't that special.
#388 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL AT 2014-08-19 02:29 PM

xoxo baby.

#389 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

where the number of EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS is now up to 12....

Do you have any attribution to this "fact" other than a tweet reported on Newsmax?

#390 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you have any attribution to this "fact" other than a tweet reported on Newsmax?

#390 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 02:44 PM

Can you explain why it is important who reported on the tweet?

The person that created the tweet is Christine Byers of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Unless you can show that Newsmax misrepresented her tweet you are just being disingenuous.

#391 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Who would ever suspect the MO police department would be doing everything in its ability to cover up the facts and create new ones that match its agenda.

Shocking I tell you!

Its almost as if they don't want to be tarnished by their own racist activities.

#392 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

( oh NO....the teacher's coming out in me again....must be first day coming up.. )
lol
#381 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

I thought you were retired. What class do (did) you teach?

#382 | Posted by rstybeach11

How to be a Dummy for Dummies?

#393 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Peaceful protests" turned violent, yet again, last night with a rash of shootings.

Vice video crew was with a group of "protesters" when they fired on police, and police responded with rubber bullets.

www.youtube.com

For those that like to listen in on police scanners

www.ustream.tv

#394 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#391

Why do you assume I'm disparaging the reporter? Her information isn't attributed to any viewable source. That was my question: Can you link to these "witness reports" she's claiming the authorities have?

#395 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Clown. Other than being aptly named - why do you continue to deny what is obvious on the video-based eyewitness reports and the autopsy. You continue to try and spin some convoluted police conspiracy over something that is straight forward.

The kid was a criminal and he got shot. Why would an officer randomly shoot the kid? A guy that had been decorated and had a spotless record?

Do you really live your life thinking that the police are just a bunch of criminal wannabes? There are two sides to the story - one supported by the facts - he was not shot in the back - his head was down - he charged the officer. The other requires you to believe that the kid was almost saintly and the officer had a random disregard for life. Which do you actually believe is closer to the truth. If you think the later you need to go see a doctor and have your paranoid delusions diagnosed and treated.

#396 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-19 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Why do you assume I'm disparaging the reporter?

I don't. It was fairly obvious that you disparaged the report, at least in part, because the report on the tweet came from Newsmax. I don't believe you ever bothered to look at where the tweet came from as the source of the tweet was never mentioned by you. Instead your only mention was the third-hand source of Newsmax.

Her information isn't attributed to any viewable source.

As is normal and acceptable in reporting when your sources aren't allowed to speak in an official capacity and/or need to be protected... you know, to keep their job and all. Unless you have a reason to disparage the reporter and question her credibility, which you have already bristled at when you thought I insinuated such, I see no reason to question the report at this point.

Can you link to these "witness reports" she's claiming the authorities have?

Why should anyone be able to at this point? Police have a good and credible reason for not releasing this information at this time. The investigation is ongoing and release could jeopardize and contaminate witness testimony if this goes to trial.

I am sorry that you think that our justice system is a court of public opinion and all facts and testimony should be immediate released to the general public without a court hearing. Thankfully though, this is not the case.

#397 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I am divided on the case. On the one hand, the cop evidently had a severe eye socket wound from the skirmish in the car. If so, he could have been severely traumatized and shot out of impulse. On the other hand, if the guy was backing away and not charging him, then the shooting is totally unjustified. I heard one account that Michael beat up the cop in the car, then left, and then turned around and charged again. That seems unlikely.

It looks like a repeat of the Trayvon Martin case where both parties were frightened and acted hysterically, out of impulse. Michael Brown was a big guy, and I can see how anyone would be frightened of him and react without thinking.

#398 | Posted by aspendougy at 2014-08-19 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There are two sides to the story - one supported by the facts - he was not shot in the back - his head was down - he charged the officer. The other requires you to believe that the kid was almost saintly and the officer had a random disregard for life. Which do you actually believe is closer to the truth. If you think the later you need to go see a doctor and have your paranoid delusions diagnosed and treated.

Ask yourself a very simple question: If your recitation of the facts were indeed the way it went down, then why hasn't the Ferguson police released the officer's statement, the full crime scene investigation and any corroborating evidence proving this to be the case? Why would the police let the officer twist in the wind for weeks if they can prove that his actions were completely defensive and provoked by Mike Brown?

The wounds noted in the autopsy are also consistent with Brown having his hands raised because the lower wounds on his right arm form a perfect circle of fire if it were raised and beside his head where his eye and skull were shot by bullets. As scary as he has been portrayed, I'm not aware of any history where unarmed individuals -- after having been grazed and shot at from behind -- then decide to turn and charge a shooting officer with their hands raised, or charge a shooting person at all. It runs counter to any survival instinct as they're universally understood. But it does make sense if he were making gestures to Wilson to stop shooting at him because he was surrendering and not fleeing any longer. Of course, many have now made this a charge to do Wilson bodily harm, but again, this runs counter to his actions in fleeing in the first place. If he wanted to stay and fight Wilson, why did he run? If he wasn't afraid of being shot, why did he run?

But what you're selling is this: an 18 year old kid who grabbed some tobacco and pushed aside a store keeper decided that his life wasn't worth living because a local police officer started an encounter with him that caused him to flee (remember, fleeing is a survival tactic, not an offensive one). And after being shot at, this man turned back toward the shooting officer, raised his hands, and charged toward him after choosing to flee in the first place?

If this isn't the prima facia example of the dehumanization of a suspect then it will do until another example comes along. I guess it doesn't matter that Mike Brown had no history of violent behavior that has been publicly uncovered so far.

#399 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If your recitation of the facts were indeed the way it went down, then why hasn't the Ferguson police released the officer's statement

Because the investigation is ongoing. Not the first time this question has been answered for you. You have yet to dispute the validity of the answer.

Ask yourself this question: What bias makes you keep ignoring a factual answer that you have repeatedly requested?

- after having been grazed and shot at from behind

Autopsy shows he was not shot from behind. You have had this repeatedly pointed out to you. At this point you are simply lying when you repeat this.

#400 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Mike Brown had no history of violent behavior that has been publicly uncovered so far.

Except, of course, for the robbery at the store caught on video. At the least that shows he was violent that day.

#401 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#397

So it is simply conjecture without corroborating evidence at this point, not fact. That was the sole point I was making.

It is also conjecture that multiple witnesses claim that Brown hands were NEVER inside the vehicle during the physical encounter, and unless Brown's fingerprints are on the gun or inside the vehicle, Wilson's version of events is called into suspicion. If Brown's finger or handprints are located outside the vehicle, the entire scenario may fall apart as one cannot be resisting entry into the vehicle and grabbing for a gun at the same time.

I'm completely skeptical that over a dozen citizens who witnessed the encounter would counter the public version of eyewitnesses already made public. Let's be real. I'll await to see what transpires, but I'm going to remind you how illogical such a claim seems to be based upon all that has been seen in Ferguson since the shooting.

#402 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

why do you continue to deny what is obvious on the video-based eyewitness reports and the autopsy. You continue to try and spin some convoluted police conspiracy over something that is straight forward.

Whats most straight forward is that Michael Brown was killed for being black in America.

Had he been white he would be alive.

The conspiracy is that Michael Brown is a "thug" that "held up a liquor store", then "fought a police officer in his vehicle for a gun", and finally he "charged the officer in order to attack him while he had a gun pointed at him".

Thats about as convoluted as it gets.

The kid was a criminal and he got shot.

link to Michael Brown's criminal history please.

Why would an officer randomly shoot the kid?

It wasn't random. And it happened.

A guy that had been decorated and had a spotless record?

Ad Hominem argument of no value.

Do you really live your life thinking that the police are just a bunch of criminal wannabes?

Do you really live your life thinking every black kid walking down the street is a "thug" and a criminal?

There are two sides to the story - one supported by the facts - he was not shot in the back - his head was down - he charged the officer.

One side of the story is dead. convenient.

Also, Seems like you have all the facts wrong. He was not charging the officer at all, he was surrendering.

Being shot in the top of the head doesn't bode well for your story either.

What was he gonna do? ram him with the top of his head?

The other requires you to believe that the kid was almost saintly and the officer had a random disregard for life.

No, thats not the only other option available, but when you have an agenda, run with it.

Which do you actually believe is closer to the truth. If you think the later you need to go see a doctor and have your paranoid delusions diagnosed and treated.
#396 | POSTED BY FOSHAFFER

You're version of reality is skewed with ad hominem attacks against both Michael Brown and his murder.

#403 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

after having been grazed and shot at from behind

Which shot came from behind? We dont have a ballistics report yet. And by the witnesses statements Im gonna wager that the "hands up" gesture was not done palms facing the officer as in "I surrender" but palms facing the head as is "come at me bro", which would explain the grazing shots angle on MBs thumb.

#404 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brown hands were NEVER inside the vehicle

how do we explain the officers orbital socket fracture?

#405 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Except, of course, for the robbery at the store caught on video. At the least that shows he was violent that day.
#401 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL

oops...

Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Victim Blows Up In Their Face (VIDEO)

Try again.

what other criminal acts has he committed?

was the supposed liquor store robbery his first?

convenient he would start robbing liquor stores, the same day he decides to challenge a cop to a boxing match for his gun, and then tries to run him through like a bull.

Michael Brown may have been turning into a "thug" right before our eyes.

Thank God he was shot dead before he could continue his "thuggery".

#406 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

So it is simply conjecture without corroborating evidence at this point, not fact. That was the sole point I was making.

It is a report, by a reporter. From their sources. If you have a reason to doubt the reporter let's hear it please.

It is also conjecture that multiple witnesses claim that Brown hands were NEVER inside the vehicle during the physical encounter

No, that is witness testimony. It is also testimony of questionable credibility due to conflicting hard evidence from the autopsy (such as no wound in the back).

If Brown's finger or handprints are located outside the vehicle, the entire scenario may fall apart as one cannot be resisting entry into the vehicle and grabbing for a gun at the same time.

Non sequitur. Hand prints on the outside of the vehicle only prove that he touched the outside at some point. It doesn't explain why or under what circumstances.

I'm completely skeptical that over a dozen citizens who witnessed the encounter would counter the public version of eyewitnesses already made public.

Why wouldn't a dozen witnesses counter the few witnesses that have snapped up the 15 minutes of fame with a story that is already questionable once it was known that Brown wasn't shot from behind like they claimed?

#407 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

how do we explain the officers orbital socket fracture?
#405 | POSTED BY AESCAL

I'd rather a fractured orbital than jail time any day.

especially as a cop.

#408 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 04:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

how do we explain the officers orbital socket fracture?

All I've seen is that the officer grabbed Brown by the neck from inside the vehicle. Brown pulled away. Where do you think the officer's head would go when Brown pulled away, perhaps up against the A-pillar of the vehicle, and particularly his right eye, or up against the door frame since Brown likely pulled upward?

Again, the forensic reports should answer these questions when they're released.

#409 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good call AESCAL, after running away from the cop, once he realized he was being shot at, he turned around to raise his arms to say come at me bro and charged him with his hands up and head faced forward.


how do we explain the officers orbital socket fracture?

#405 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

You mean the unconfirmed and untreated fracture that "sources" said happen?

#410 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-08-19 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

that is already questionable once it was known that Brown wasn't shot from behind like they claimed?

Why do you keep hanging on to this canard? There is NO DISPUTE that Wilson fired shots at Brown as he fled! This is what people saw. As far as I know, none of the eyewitnesses definitively saw or reported the exact locations of wounds, and since Brown stopped running and turned back toward the police, it's simply logical that witnesses assumed he turned because of being shot from behind. This isn't indicative of the witnesses being wrong, it's indicative of them thinking logically in a moment of stress that none of them was anticipating. The grazing wound is consistent with him receiving it from behind.

#411 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd rather a fractured orbital than jail time any day

You have obviously never been in fight and received an angled blow to the temple or eyesocket. So your arguement is that Police should drop pursuit or the stop the enforcement of law and order, anytime a potential lawsuit or civil suit could arise, for the better of society? Must be comfy inside that gated community or coop with restricted access and a doorman.

#412 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why don't you hate filled, racist, posters try reading this:

Attorney For Ferguson Market: NO ONE From His Store Called 911 To Report Cigar Theft

St. Louis local news is reporting that the Attorney for the Ferguson store, Jake Kanzler said the the Ferguson store owner, nor any store employee called the police to report any shoplifting of cigars, but, rather, a customer called the police.

The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.


Damn!! Thats some vigilance!! I mean, if all liquor store robberies were treated so seriously maybe crime in this country would actually go down.

it continues:

... the attorney wanted to emphasize the 911 call did not come from the owners or an employee.

I feel some DR poster's pants burning.

#413 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

he turned around to raise his arms to say come at me bro and charged him with his hands up and head faced forward.

Had the shooting victim had no prior history of aggressiveness, I would agree, but thats not the case.

#414 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

911 call did not come from the owners or an employee

Doesnt matter, his store was still burned down and looted. Bet he wish he had called 911 right away. Coming from a store owner, the call might have received a better response and this situation would just be about an 18 year pushing his way out a store and getting arrested instead of a police shooting.

#415 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ferguson Police Busted – Attempt To Defame Shooting Victim Blows Up In Their Face (VIDEO)

Try again.

Try again yourself. Watched that video several times and at no point does that video show him pay for anything. It doesn't even show anything that looks like paying.

It looks like he asked for something. Pointed at what he wanted. Grabbed it. Some of the packs fell on the floor. The shop keeper grabs the box and puts it behind the counter. Brown picks of the packs that fell on the floor and tries to leave. The store owner comes out after him.

#416 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Doesnt matter,
#415 | POSTED BY AESCAL

Doesn't matter?

The crux of Michael Brown being a "thug and a criminal" came from him supposedly robbing that liquor store.

If he didn't rob it.

Then he was just a black kid walking down the street.

Maybe he didn't feel like being arrested for jaywalking and fought back against the cop that was trying to detain him.

Maybe in the process the cop got injured and Michael Brown freaked out and tried to run away.

Maybe the cop fired a shot to which Michael Brown immediately turned around and surrendered.

Only to be shot 6 times.

"Doesn't matter"? Give me a [...] break. You be sure to have a great vacation in MO this week with the rest of your Klan.

#417 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Try again yourself.

Try #413 and then you can kiss my [...].

You racist hate filled [...]

#418 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, #418 was for that stooge known as MooManFL.

That put all his deductive reasoning together and assumed I was BuffaloBob.

Thats 2 strikes now, care to try for a third?

#419 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

oh, and just for the hell of it, 420!!

#420 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-08-19 05:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Brown hands were NEVER inside the vehicle"

how do we explain the officers orbital socket fracture?

#405 | Posted by aescal

first of all has anyone even seen officer Wilson and this "orbital socket fracture"?

Regardless, it is my understanding that according to eyewitnesses his car door was slammed back into his face when he opened the door and it hit Mike Brown. That does tend to leave a mark. It also tends to embarrass and enrage anyone and tends to make them more violent (see road rage) which is probably why he pulled his gun in the first place(and fired it inside his own car) instead of calling for backup and waiting for help.

It is possible he used deadly force when it was not needed. Hence, the community outrage. And they have done a terrible job reducing that outrage. It is like they decided to pour gasoline on the fire to prove some misguided point.

#421 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Clownshack has uncovered very damning evidence against the entire "thug" angle if proven correct. Let me share some of the relevant facts:

While it is difficult to be 100% certain, the video appears to show Brown purchasing some cigars, but lacking the money for the amount he wished to buy. Brown seems to purchase some cigarillos, pay for them, attempt to buy more, then replace the ones he could not afford. The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee (it is impossible to know what words were exchanged) but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him. In any case, neither the employee nor the store owner called law enforcement–something that would surely happen if Brown committed a "strong-arm robbery."

The attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store that called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.

How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, the attorney said, "‘during the course of Ferguson's investigation, the police department from Ferguson, came to the store and asked for to review the tape." In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street. aattp.org


If there were no stolen cigars, there is no reason for Brown to have feared the encounter with Wilson. The biggest question is why did the police only release the part of the video showing the confrontation instead of Brown paying for his cigarellos?

#422 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is NO DISPUTE that Wilson fired shots at Brown as he fled!

The officer says he fired a warning shot. That doesn't equal firing at Brown.

You are the one that keeps claiming, per the questionable witnesses, that Brown was shot from behind.


Wilson shot at him while he was running away.

#228 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 04:50 PM

People say Brown got hit from the back because Wilson shot at him while he was fleeing

#237 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-18 05:00 PM

after having been grazed and shot at from behind

#399 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 04:34 PM


The only canard is you continuing to claim he was shot from behind when the autopsy says he wasn't. So there isn't a dispute that he fire a shot while he was running away. There IS a dispute that he fired AT BROWN while he was running away. The autopsy disputes the witnesses that claim that he did calling their account into question.

Sorry this little fact is so much trouble for you. Quite repeating the canard that Brown was shot from behind.

#423 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

QUIT repeating the canard too. lol

#424 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Clownshack has uncovered very damning evidence against the entire "thug" angle if proven correct."

Except that it has already unequivocally been p[proven false. By the police report, by an eyewitness, by the clerks account and by the account of Brown's friend. Oh, and no part shows him buying them. It's all a red herring.

#425 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Watched that video several times and at no point does that video show him pay for anything.

At the 36 second mark, the clerk appears with CURRENCY in his hands.

#426 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#422 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

There are, oops were since it burned down, 3 cameras inside the Ferguson Market. I doubt Mike Brown paid for 48.99 worth of Cigarillos. The camera covering the counter shows his grabbing a box of cigarillos and handing it to Dorian Johnson, who proceeds to put the box back on the counter as Mike Brown grabs another box. They walk to the door, at which point the clerk run from behind the counter, keys in hand, to lock the door. At no point does MB recieve change or put anything is pocket other than several packs that fell to the floor. And so the MB wasnt pushing the clerk out of the way or walking in menacing manner toward him, only buttoning the top button on his shirt right?

#427 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ok, I will give you this, you only say that he was actually hit (grazed) once. I will retract that part. However the witnesses don't say he was shot AT from behind. They said he was SHOT IN THE BACK. Their story is questionable as the autopsy contradicts them. On the other hand it supports Wilson's story that he only fired a warning shot.

Not exactly the action of someone that would seconds later gun someone down in cold blood while he is trying to surrender. A version that suggests that he did makes less sense than being rushed at by the suspect.

#428 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

BTW Dorian Johnson has already admitted that MB robbed the store, through his attorney.

www.kfoxtv.com

#429 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You people do understand that the clerk is alive and will have told his story, right?

And also, the FACT that the clerk nor owner called the police about any robbery? So the entire "robbery" was the perception of a customer and not the store personnel.

Why bother with facts when conjecture is so much fun? You do remember that the chief of police announced that there was no robbery investigation when he released the tapes, right?

It appears there was no robbery.

#430 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

You people do understand that the clerk is alive and will have told his story, right?"

Yes he did, it's here .
i2.cdn.turner.com

"It appears there was no robbery."
So the clerk, confirmed by police records.
The eyewitness to the robbery.
And Dorian Johnson are all lying.
Oh, and don't forget the video.

There was a robbery, that much is fact.

#431 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only canard is you continuing to claim he was shot from behind when the autopsy says he wasn't.

You don't read very well, do you? You quote me and then misinterpret what I said:

Wilson shot at him while he was running away.

You do have the mental capacity to discern the difference between "at" and "hit" don't you?

#432 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

So the entire "robbery" was the perception of a customer and not the store personnel."

No, the witness called the cops and the clerk confirmed that there was a robbery. The clerk.

#433 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If there were no stolen cigars, there is no reason for Brown to have feared the encounter with Wilson. The biggest question is why did the police only release the part of the video showing the confrontation instead of Brown paying for his cigarellos?
#422 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:25 PM

I have not seen that footage, but it sounds like Brown was trying to hustle the clerk, but I absolutely agree that the entirety of his encounter should be included. How frustrating that police parsing is what is elevating emotions in this instance.

The officers witness' believed that Brown was high on something.

It's even possible that he didn't feel those bullets tearing through him, but reeled and was then fatally shot in the top of the skull.

I haven't yet seen any actual indications of police misconduct in this instance.

#434 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-08-19 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Theres nothing more to investigate. The person strong arming his way out of the store can no longer be charged. Dorian Johnson was not charged because he is clearly seen putting back the box handed to him. And he, thru his lawyer, admitted MB robbed the store.

#435 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

#428

I've explained to you how people would assume that from their angles of viewing and the actions of Brown himself. Even Johnson thought he was hit from behind because everyone HEARD gunfire and saw Brown stop running and turn back toward the officer before the fatal shots were fired. This doesn't make the eyewitnesses non-credible. They aren't witnesses to the wounds, they are witnesses to the actions.

#436 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

You do have the mental capacity to discern the difference between "at" and "hit" don't you?

#432 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:43 PM

Did you read my 428 where I recognized this?

As for the robbery. Dorian Johnson, the "WITNESS!" has already admitted through his attorney, on the news, that he was there and that they "took the cigarillos". It seems the robbery did occur.

#437 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"How frustrating that police parsing is what is elevating emotions in this instance."

Which tells you a lot about their motives. It was not about transparency but trying to circle the wagons ahead of the approaching storm.

#438 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

And I guess everyone has missed the FACT that the video shows conclusively that Brown did not lay a hand on the clerk until the clerk first touched Brown.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but it does mean Brown only reacted to what the clerk did and didn't start any physical confrontation on his own.

#439 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

They said he was SHOT IN THE BACK

No "they" don't, at least not the ones I've actually heard interviewed. For instance, let's take Tiffany Mitchell's consistent relaying of what she saw:

"As I pull onto the side, the kid, he finally gets away, he starts running. As he runs the police get out of his vehicle and he follows behind him, shooting," Mitchell said. "And the kid's body jerked as if he was hit from behind, and he turns around and puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground and his face just smacks the concrete."

Not "shot in the back" but rather "as if he was hit from behind." There is nothing in her rendition that is contradicted by the autopsy.

For instance, DIXVILLENOTCH posted a video where he captioned it as "two witnesses last week on CNN saying it looked like he got hit in the back" (#231) but if you actually go to the beginning of that youtube video, she says what I've posted above. Not "hit in the back" but that his body "jerked as if he was hit from behind." That very well could be the shot in his hand and/or the forearm shot.

The only people that I've heard say he was shot in the back are on this thread or clips from Fox News.

#440 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-19 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"How frustrating that police parsing is what is elevating emotions in this instance."
Which tells you a lot about their motives. It was not about transparency but trying to circle the wagons ahead of the approaching storm.
#438 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:54 PM

I agree, the police are behaving differently in this instance. This entire case seems like a self-inflicted issue. To what end?

#441 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-08-19 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dorian Johnson,

We've been told for weeks that Johnson wasn't a credible witness by defenders of the police and now his word is gospel?

All this spinning is making me dizzy.

#442 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which tells you a lot about their motives. It was not about transparency but trying to circle the wagons ahead of the approaching storm.

#438 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 05:54 PM

Bullcrap. The only thing it says is that they didn't have all the facts yet and certain things they couldn't release before they had them and decided what course would need to be taken because of them. This is just common sense. Not that anyone ever accuses you of having any.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but it does mean Brown only reacted to what the clerk did and didn't start any physical confrontation on his own.

#439 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:56 PM

Not really Tony. The clerk had a right to try and recover the property and/or detain the thief.

Violence on the part of a thief (and pushing is considered violence) while in the act of committing a theft is called strong arm robbery.

#443 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

We've been told for weeks that Johnson wasn't a credible witness by defenders of the police and now his word is gospel?

All this spinning is making me dizzy.

#442 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:59 PM

Dizzy? Maybe. From us spinning? Not really.

His account of the shooting? Full of holes. Can easily be seen as self-serving and/or protecting the memory of his friend.

His admission of robbery? Not self-serving or protectionist and is corroborated by video evidence.

#444 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"And I guess everyone has missed the FACT that the video shows conclusively that Brown did not lay a hand on the clerk until the clerk first touched Brown."

Uh, are you high?

Look at about 1:12 you can see that the clerk walk AROUND him to lock the door to prevent them from leaving until they paid. You can see the keys in his hand. He stepped in front of brown and grabbed the door when brown grabbed him.

There is no call to lie about it. If you need something to happen that did not to support your claim it's probably time to rethink your claim.

#445 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry that was to have included the link to the video.

#446 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.nbcnews.com

#447 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#447

Here is a video from a different angle: www.youtube.com

Little different, huh?

#448 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Little different, huh?

#448 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 06:18

Not really Tony. That video doesn't show the clerk laying a hand on him either.

#449 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

#449

But it does show Brown grabbing a box and then returning it behind the counter, and Johnson placing the box he had on the counter too. The clerk didn't appear very agitated but again, each of these views is limited in the information one can glean from them.

It appears that Brown only picked up what was on the ground from this view.

#450 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Here is a video from a different angle: www.youtube.com
Little different, huh?"

No, nothing new on that one. Are you just trying to make points by hoping people will not check your links?

#451 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But it does show Brown grabbing a box and then returning it behind the counter, and Johnson placing the box he had on the counter too. The clerk didn't appear very agitated but again,"

The display box had spilled most of it's contents on the floor which Brown grabbed. You can see him pick them up. It does appear that Johnson did not want much to do with it. The clerk does look agitated, he grabbed his keys and hurried to get to the door before brown could leave so he could lock it until he paid or returned what he took.

#452 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#447

I'm sorry I didn't see that the alternate video was included after the publicized one. It is interesting that Brown only had a handful of cigars and not any "box" worth $49. This means the incident report contains obviously false information. Again, don't know if it means much, but Brown wasn't carrying $40+ of cigars in any way, shape or form.

And the clerk DOES touch Brown before Brown pushes him.

#453 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And the clerk DOES touch Brown before Brown pushes him."

No he grabbed the door and put his hand up. Brown initiated that contact. It is very clear in the video.

"It is interesting that Brown only had a handful of cigars and not any "box" worth $49."

It looks like 6 or 7 packs. A box of ten packs looks like it runs about $63 online
www.thompsoncigar.com

So even without big markups you are pretty much there already.
But as you said it does not matter much.

#454 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#454 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-08-19 06:42 PM

I have to agree that looks like what happened.

Brown initiated contact by walking to the owner.

Trying to say that the owner touch Brown is like saying that a person getting punched was slamming their face into his fist. That is to say, it is transparently disingenuous.

#455 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

You do have the mental capacity to discern the difference between "at" and "hit" don't you?

#432 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then do please tell us how many rounds the officer fired.

I think that's kinda important don't you?

rwd

#456 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-19 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only people that I've heard say he was shot in the back are on this thread or clips from Fox News.

#440 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-19 05:5

SALLY KOHN of cnn...

Sally Kohn ✔ @sallykohn
Follow

Many allegations swirling re #FergusonShooting. Only sure facts, according to police, is Mike Brown was unarmed and fleeing with hands up.
3:56 PM - 16 Aug 2014

#457 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

the phrase 'was fleeing' of course would mean she is saying he was shot in the back.....unless he was running backwards...I guess

#458 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then do please tell us how many rounds the officer fired.

I think that's kinda important don't you?

rwd

#456 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2

was first question I asked of the county officer and ex fbi...they both said a man of that size and under the circumstances known to them that the amount of reported shots was not necessarily excessive....

it was NOT, as so many want to provide an image of the cop standing over the body and emptying his weapon....according to witnesses coming forth, THAT was NOT the case.

One also commented..."people who think one shot was enough watch too much tv"

#459 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then do please tell us how many rounds the officer fired.

Don't know Don. I'm waiting for the ballistics report like everyone else. I think you missed the gist of that comment. It was about the fact that Wilson fired shots at Brown when Brown was fleeing.

#460 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And the kid's body jerked as if he was hit from behind, and he turns around and puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground and his face just smacks the concrete."

Not "shot in the back" but rather "as if he was hit from behind." There is nothing in her rendition that is contradicted by the autopsy.

But, it sounds so much better when they say "witnesses say he was shot in the back" then proceed to refute that statement.

It is the old Fox News method of saying something in the morning and then quoting themselves in the afternoon by saying "it was reported this morning that"...

#461 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-19 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, which shot did the family's Examiner say hit Brown from behind?

#462 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 07:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was about the fact that Wilson fired shots at Brown when Brown was fleeing.

#460 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-19 07:17 PM

No evidence of that. Officers says he fired a warning shot. Brown was not hit in the back. Brown WAS hit the other times the officer fired intending to hit him. I would say that makes the officer's statement more likely than the people saying Brown was shot while running away.

#463 | Posted by moomanfl at 2014-08-19 07:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

List of stores looted and torched during these "peaceful protests"

Quick Trip (burned and completely destroyed)
Domino's Pizza (burned, minor)
Ferguson Chop Suey (burned, minor)
Taco Bell (vandalized)
St. Vincent de Paul Thrift Store (who loots a church thrift store?)
Autozone
Red's BBQ
Shoe Carnival
Zisser Tire Auto Service
Sam's Meat Market
Dellwood Market
Walmart
Ferguson Market & Liqour
Yellow Diamond Boutique
Feel Beauty Supply
Foot Locker
Kmart
PNC Bank
Walgreens
Quick Cash
Family Dollar
Boost Mobile
DTLR
Hibbett Sports
Velvet Freeze Ice Cream
Remy Beauty Supply
Cricket Wireless
Phillips 66
Energy Express
JC Wireless
T-Mobile
Sprint
Radioshack
Firestone Complete Auto Care Store
Dollar General
Up N Up Fashion
Knodel's Bakery and Catering
Hohmeier Auto Body
Dierbergs Market
Ross Dress for Less
Advance Auto Parts
ToysRUs
Payless Shoe Store
Churches Chicken
ATM's
Office Depot
Various Liquor stores
JP Sports Bar

and expect more tonight....

#464 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-19 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

first and main eye witness how recanting his original story...says that BROWN DID ATTACK the officer !!!

confirmation to come....

#465 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 09:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I said to come because I saw it on just one source and I know unless it's the time or msnbc, it's just not news....'round here anyway

#466 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-19 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I am divided on the case. On the one hand, the cop evidently had a severe eye socket wound from the skirmish in the car. If so, he could have been severely traumatized and shot out of impulse. On the other hand, if the guy was backing away and not charging him, then the shooting is totally unjustified.

#398 | POSTED BY ASPENDOUGY AT 2014-08-19 04:32 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Not even remotely correct. If someone committed a felony (like assaulting a police officer or, say, robbing a store) then deadly force is 100% justified to prevent said felon from escaping.

"Stop or I'll shoot" isn't an idle threat. It is a warning, and NOT EVEN A LEGALLY REQUIRED ONE.

#467 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-08-19 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is a video out there showing exactly what happened.

Most likely we'll never see it because it would exonerate the cop.

rwd

#468 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-19 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

...then deadly force is 100% justified to prevent said felon from escaping.

Update your training. That wild west mentality went out the window in 1985. www.drudge.com

#469 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-19 10:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, here's the rumor that Dorian Johnson is going to recant his media statement.

theconservativetreehouse.com

#470 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 10:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did Johnson leave fingerprints on/in the cruiser? On Wilson or his weapon? It wouldn't take much more to implicate him. Major plea deal if this pans out.

#471 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, even the source -- a radio station called "100.7 The Viper" -- says proceed with caution. The Viper claims to have known the Baden shot diagram on Saturday evening. They also claimed to know the toxicology report, which wasn't released as they said.

Gotta be especially careful with this source. Duly noted.

www.facebook.com

#472 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-19 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only people that I've heard say he was shot in the back are on this thread or clips from Fox News.

#440 | Posted by YAV

Here's Dorian Johnson telling USA Today on 8/12 that Brown was shot in the back:

"According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised."

www.usatoday.com

#473 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Here's Johnson in the same USA Today interview saying Brown went fetal, with pain in his eyes:

"My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him)," Johnson said. "Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch."

Johnson said he could tell Brown was in pain after the shooting.

"It hurt him a lot," he said. "I could see it in his eyes. It was definitely like being shot like an animal."

[bold added]

Well, since the family's medical examiner says the shot to top of the head killed Brown instantly and without pain this flourish of Johnson's is going to cause him trouble.

#474 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

At 1:24 in the video Johnson says a bullet struck Brown in the back.

At 1:46 in the video Johnson says Brown fell into a fetal position.

at 1:56 in the video Johnson says through his tears he could see how much it hurt in Brown's eyes.

Same USA Today link Byline 8/13, interviewed 8/12

Ooopsie.

#475 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Mr. Baden said Mr. Brown did not suffer pain after he was struck in the head.

www.nytimes.com

#476 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The last two shots in the head would have stopped him in his tracks"

www.nytimes.com

#477 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Back in #279 I linked to the original Dorian Johnson video interview in which he claimed Brown was shot at close range during the scuffle at the cruiser. Johnson said he saw Brown bleeding as he broke away from Wilson. The family's medical examiner found no such wound.

youtu.be

"We looked down. He was shot. It was blood coming from him. And we took off running."

#478 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 12:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Here's eyewitnessPiaget Crenshaw as reported in the 8/10 St. Louis Dispatch:

"Several shots hit Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said."

www.stltoday.com

#479 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 01:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

The whole paragraph from the dispatch says Piaget Crenshaw saw the teen flee with hands in the air"

#480 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 01:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

My bad. Here's the paragraph from the 8/10 Dispatch:

She then said she saw the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots hit Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said. She complied with a request that she give photos of the scene to authorities.

#481 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 01:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you want to see who started the 'shot in the back, hands in the air' gig, don't point at me.

#482 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 01:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dumbest thing is these eyewitnesses have lawyers right next to them while they're talking in their follow-up interviews.

#483 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 01:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Another early account from Dorian Johnson on MSNBC on 8/11, sitting next to his new lawyer friend:

"I seen the fire come out of the barrell," he said. "I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close."

Johnson says he was within arm's reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

"The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off," Johnson noted.

Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.

"Keep running, bro!," he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson's friend, "Big Mike," would ever say to him.

Brown made it past the third car. Then, "blam!" the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said "I don't have a gun, stop shooting!"

By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position.

www.msnbc.com

[emph added -- I just noticed that -- these passengers would be possible additional witnesses]

#484 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 02:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

In the background you can see flowers and some stuff at the spot where the incident happened....in the foreground you can see a table where scum are signing up democrat voter registration....

"never let a crisis go to waste"

fbcdn-sphotos-b- a.akamaihd.net

#485 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-20 03:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Also in the MSNBC video Johnson says Brown did not harm Wilson in any way.

*wow*

#486 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 03:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Back in #279 I linked to the original Dorian Johnson video

Dixville, unfortunately your first link to an interview was a carefully clipped (you start your link 42 seconds into the interview) link that was a lie.

I discounted (not disregarded) everything you said since.

Let's take the Crenshaw interview: "Several shots hit Brown as he ran" is still consistent with the autopsy - hand and forearm - and no where does Crenshaw say "hit in him the back."

Now let's take your #279:
At 2:05:
At "and he shot again, and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and put his hands in the air"

Not "hit in the back."

But doing due diligence, I will give you that by the time the USA interview was done, Johnson had changed his wording from "felt the shot" (as he was running away) to "hit in the back."

I had not seen the USA interview from August 13, 2014 the day after the previous interview. That does point to the importance of immediately getting witness testimony before a "narrative" gets introduced.

Now back to your original statement:
Here are the two witnesses last week on CNN saying it looked like he got hit in the back:
youtu.be

Niether supported your "hit in the (anatomical) back" statement. But perhaps I misunderstood, and by "back" you mean "from behind?"

Up until the day after interview (USA Today) you posted, I hadn't heard any actual interview with any witness that said "hit in the back."

Still I'm lost on "shot in the back" being a relevant point since both the hand and forearm shots are likely to have been introduced while Brown was facing away from the officer.

Try it yourself. Stand up, look at your hand and forearm position. Now run.

They could also be from Brown facing the officer with his hands up surrendering - if you prefer that scenario...

#487 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-20 06:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Back in #279 I linked to the original Dorian Johnson video

Dixville, unfortunately your first link to an interview was a carefully clipped (you start your link 42 seconds into the interview) link that was a lie.

I discounted (not disregarded) everything you said since.

Let's take the Crenshaw interview: "Several shots hit Brown as he ran" is still consistent with the autopsy - hand and forearm - and no where does Crenshaw say "hit in him the back."

Now let's take your #279:
At 2:05:
At "and he shot again, and once my friend felt that shot he turned around and put his hands in the air"

Not "hit in the back."

But doing due diligence, I will give you that by the time the USA interview was done, Johnson had changed his wording from "felt the shot" (as he was running away) to "hit in the back."

I had not seen the USA interview from August 13, 2014 the day after the previous interview. That does point to the importance of immediately getting witness testimony before a "narrative" gets introduced.

Now back to your original statement:
Here are the two witnesses last week on CNN saying it looked like he got hit in the back:
youtu.be

Niether supported your "hit in the (anatomical) back" statement. But perhaps I misunderstood, and by "back" you mean "from behind?"

Up until the day after interview (USA Today) you posted, I hadn't heard any actual interview with any witness that said "hit in the back."

Still I'm lost on "shot in the back" being a relevant point since both the hand and forearm shots are likely to have been introduced while Brown was facing away from the officer.

Try it yourself. Stand up, look at your hand and forearm position. Now run.

They could also be from Brown facing the officer with his hands up surrendering - if you prefer that scenario...

#488 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-20 06:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dude -- Read the media statements. It's not my narrative.

#489 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

both the hand and forearm shots are likely to have been introduced while Brown was facing away from the officer.

#488 | POSTED BY YAV

That's not what the Examiner says.

#490 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

From the 8/10 Dispatch:

She then said she saw the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots hit Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said. She complied with a request that she give photos of the scene to authorities.

#481 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

USA Today on 8/12 that Brown was shot in the back:

"According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised."
www.usatoday.com

#473 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

Brown made it past the third car. Then, "blam!" the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back.

www.msnbc.com

#484 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

The only people that I've heard say he was shot in the back are on this thread or clips from Fox News.

#440 | Posted by YAV

I guess you just haven't been following the national narrative.

#491 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-20 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've already addressed everything you've said, now you're repeating yourself without addressing any actual point I've made. You've been dishonest from the beginning, so I don't see any reason to continue any discussion with you.

#492 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-20 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

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