Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 15, 2014

A police report released Friday by Ferguson police identifies Michael Brown as a suspect in a robbery at a convenience store a short time before he was fatally shot by a police officer. Ferguson authorities have identified Darren Wilson as the police officer who shot and killed the unarmed teenager last Saturday. Ferguson Chief Tom Jackson released the officer's name Friday morning. Brown, 18, was shot multiple times Saturday afternoon.

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Great. I can't wait for this to get uglier.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Stills from the camera
twitter.com

#1 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-15 10:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Teen Fatally Shot By Ferguson Officer Was Suspect In Convenience Store Robbery
stlouis.cbslocal.com

#2 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-15 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ah so. Justifiable homicide then. Good thing it wasn't a loaf of bread.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-15 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Cops assumed since he was a smoker he was going to die eventually anyway. They saved us the money from treating his cancer. The cops are heroes!

#4 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-15 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hyperbole Alert.....

#5 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-08-15 11:30 AM

No, more like "Gallows Humor Alert."

You really didn't take that seriously, did ya?

#6 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-15 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Shooting an unarmed black teen?

Obviously the cop just thought he was in Florida.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-15 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe someone should inform these cops that the arms attached to the shoulders and hands don't count when deciding if they can use lethal force or not. Technically, he was armed, just not with a weapon.

#8 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-15 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Anyone starting to suspect that Brown wasn't the innocent angel his mama believed him to be? Not saying the shooting was justified - we don't know what happened during the altercation - but Brown obviously didn't have any problem with strong-arming the store owner, and may have been involved in similar activities according to the tweeted document. I'm wondering who assaulted the police officer now.

#9 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-08-15 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fifteen years in the academy
He was like no cadet they'd ever seen
A man so hard, his veins bleed ice
And when he speaks he never says it twice
They call him Judge, his last name is Dredd
So break the law, and you may wind up dead
Truth and justice are what he's fighting for
Judge Dredd the man, he is the law
DROKK IT

With his gun and bike he rules the streets
And every perp he meets will taste defeat
Not even Death can overcome his might
Cause Dredd and Anderson, they won the fight
When the Sov's started the Apocalypse war
And Mega-city was bombed to the floor
Dredd resisted, and the judges fought back
And crushed the Sov's with their counter-attack
DROKK IT

I Am the Law by Anthrax

#10 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-15 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like his friend was lying on tv the other night and that the officer stopped them b/c of the report of the theft and intimidating of the store owner earlier in the day. I'm guessing the cop realized the two males were the suspects and when they failed to comply and thought that he was dealing with two criminals that had strong armed the owner and stole some stuff.

#11 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Shooting an unarmed black teen?

Obviously the cop just thought he was in Florida."

Or he thought he was a member of the LAPD.

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-15 12:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

A strong armed robbery. Obviously the death penalty was required here.

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-08-15 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

A strong armed robbery. Obviously the death penalty was required here.

Saved all the money a trial and prison stay would have cost so it must be a conservative's dream scenario, a three-for.

If it weren't for that pesky Constitution and it's liberal Due Process clause we could really put a dent in our criminal justice system problems.

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-15 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

#13 and #14 Not concerned with the details of the police confronting the two suspects? You do realize that unarmed assailants can cause situation where firearms need to be utilized. Sometimes firearms cause death.

#15 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-15 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Sounds like he was shot b/c he was a suspect in a strong armed robbery and failed to comply with the officer. I'm not sure but, I doubt when a robbery is reported they don't tell the officer it was some cigars. Just that the suspect was involved in a physical altercation and robbed a convenient store. Fact is if he hadn't robbed a store and physically intimidate a store owner he wouldn't have been a suspect. It also shows his friend/accomplice is a liar and you can't believe a word of his story.

#16 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 01:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Reported to be surveillance photo

#17 | Posted by soulfly at 2014-08-15 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not concerned with the details of the police confronting the two suspects? You do realize that unarmed assailants can cause situation where firearms need to be utilized. Sometimes firearms cause death.

#15 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-15 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's true. And it could be the case. But of course if it turns out the guy was shot in the back from a distance where fists are not a threat then that goes right out the window.

Autopsy has been done, of course. Like this video, that information is available. Have to wonder why it hasn't been released.

#18 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

These videos obviously do not exonerate the cop.
But, I think they do provide an object lesson in why you should wait at least a few weeks before burning down your Quick Trip.

#19 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Video is here: thegatewaypundit.com

#20 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good link Anton!

#21 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Very informative.

#22 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's give it time for more info to come out, perhaps they fought and Mr. Brown attempted to take the officers weapon. Did the officer follow deadly force protocol?

#23 | Posted by scooter28054 at 2014-08-15 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stills from video

We wait and see what the autopsy report says. From the pictures, unless he was shot in the back after his heart stopped beating, there would be blood around entrance wounds.

#24 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Releasing this just makes the cops look worse.
It's okay that we shot him... he was "suspect!"

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-15 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another one bites the dust.-----NRA

Community says it doesn't matter if he stole cigars or not. Cops should have asked him if he did it, and if he said no, just let him go.

Works for me. But I don't live there.

#26 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-08-15 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But, I think they do provide an object lesson in why you should wait at least a few weeks before burning down your Quick Trip."

They shouldn't be burning down anything.

But the "wait until all the information comes out" isn't really wise either. That's how cover ups happen. Keep a lid on things, what for people to move on and then quietyly say the internal investigation is done and everything was on the up and up.

I'm not saying crucify the cop with no evidence. But making demands that this be taken seriously and handled in a timely manner is probably necessary. I don't trust people who say "wait for all the information to come out" when I know that they have information that they aren't releasing. By holding back information, you are necessitating that people form opinions without that information.

#27 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Releasing this just makes the cops look worse.
It's okay that we shot him... he was "suspect!"
#25 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Only someone that isn't interested in the truth would say that.

Nobody is saying it was OK, but certainly puts the frame of mind of the officers and victim in to a different perspective.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-15 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

But the "wait until all the information comes out" isn't really wise either. -Sully

How about unit the Police issue a report? The police probably have more information that will come out in trial, and inquiry.

Let them assemble the data.....

#29 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-15 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

i saw a video a few years ago that looks like a cop shot a suspect detained by another cop at gunpoint in cold blood. The cop rounds a corner behind the suspect & immediately shoots him. Then another video shot from a rear angle shows the suspect pulling a gun from the back of his waistband, which he was about to use against the cop holding him with weapon drawn.

Now it APPEARS the media had Officer Wilson tried & convicted as a "racist" cop, which i bought into; when, if MB did reach for Wilson's service weapon through the window of his vehicle, shooting MIGHT be justified. NPR had done a piece about NBC using a pic of MB flashing a gang sign, which NBC apologized for as prejudicial & circumstantial; and a photo campaign was underway showing 2 pics of several Black youth, one looking intimidating & aggressive, & the other as their sweet, loving, "real" selves.

#30 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-15 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Judge Dredd took care of it. Due process is so quaint.

#31 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-08-15 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

But the "wait until all the information comes out" isn't really wise either.

#27 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-08-15 02:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG

You think it's wise to make major decisions with incomplete information?

#32 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

All the officer knew was he was dealing with two individuals that fit the description of two men that had committed a felony robbery earlier that day and that there was a physical altercation. He stopped those suspects to question them. They didn't comply with his investigation which causes a cop to get antsy b/c it makes them look guilty of that felony. He has to assume since they assaulted the employee that he may be in danger. If they had not committed the felony he would be alive today. If they had cooperated with the officer he would still be alive but, in jail. His accomplice to that crime has already admitted they robbed the store.

#33 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

How about unit the Police issue a report? The police probably have more information that will come out in trial, and inquiry.

Let them assemble the data.....

#29 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-15 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

What trial? Has anyone been charged with a crime?

If you let them conduct the inquiry in a vaccuum then its almost a guarantee that they say the cop did nothing wrong.

The public is right to demand that the police move on this and they do it transparently.

#34 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It worked out for that quick trip really good.

#35 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 02:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

You think it's wise to make major decisions with incomplete information?

#32 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't say they should reach a conclusion. I said they are right to exert pressure and demand this be taken seriously and handled in a timely manner because police departments have proven that left to their own devices they will cover for the cops almost every time.

Now I've said it twice.

#36 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

You think it's wise to make major decisions with incomplete information?

#32 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't say they should reach a conclusion. I said they are right to exert pressure and demand this be taken seriously and handled in a timely manner because police departments have proven that left to their own devices they will cover for the cops almost every time.

Now I've said it twice.

#37 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Three times, with the double post.

#38 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Three times, with the double post.

#38 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag

Just shows you really really mean it.

#39 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I said they are right to exert pressure and demand this be taken seriously and handled in a timely manner because police departments have proven that left to their own devices they will cover for the cops almost every time.
Now I've said it twice.

#36 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-08-15 02:48 PM | REPLY

I agree with your first point as a matter of principle. Your second point appears to be an assertion based only upon bias. Do you have a link to any evidence that will demonstrate a cover up "almost every time?" My personal opinion is this still looks like an excessive use of force by the police. But, I'm reserving judgment until I know more information. I'll wait at least until next week to burn my Quick Trip and rob my Shoe Carnival.

#40 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is just more evidence that if Al Sharpton takes a position on something you should take the opposite position and you've got a really good chance at being right.

#41 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Your second point appears to be an assertion based only upon bias. Do you have a link to any evidence that will demonstrate a cover up "almost every time?""

Its my perception. If you think I'm wrong, I'm cool with that. I'll just think you're wrong. From what I've seen, if you leave it up to the cops to police other cops - especially those in their own department - they overwhelmingly favor their own.

#42 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is just more evidence that if Al Sharpton takes a position on something you should take the opposite position and you've got a really good chance at being right.

#41 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-08-15 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

With him involved, it might turn out that the "witness" actually used the knocked out unconscious cop's gun to kill his friend.

#43 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-15 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its my perception. If you think I'm wrong, I'm cool with that. I'll just think you're wrong. From what I've seen, if you leave it up to the cops to police other cops - especially those in their own department - they overwhelmingly favor their own.
#42 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-08-15 03:02 PM | REPLY

That's fair enough in my opinion.

#44 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-15 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

It worked out for that quick trip really good.

#35 | POSTED BY DALTON AT 2014-08-15 02:47 PM | FLAG:

I actually really like this post because it goes a lot deeper than much of the commentary surrounding the shooting and subsequent events.

#45 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-08-15 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Eric "Gib'em Gunz" Holder is on it...

#46 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

BREAKING NEWS!

The police chief in Ferguson just stated that the officer who shot Mike Brown DID NOT know that Brown was a suspect in a robbery and that Brown was confronted for walking in the street only.

The video was released because of FOI requests from the press and no further charges are being made over the robbery.

Repeat: The robbery had nothing to do with the stop --- Ferguson Police Chief

Ongoing, live tv.

#47 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-08-15 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Smearing the victim to cover their collective asses. Typical cops.

#48 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-15 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Thanks for the update Tony.

#49 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-08-15 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

certainly puts the frame of mind of the officers and victim in to a different perspective.
#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Really, how so? So he was a suspect, so what? Was he being arrested, was he resisting arrest?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-15 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Facts are pesky things. If the police officer was genuinely investigating a strong armed robbery that had just occurred hours earlier, AND if Mike Brown was genuinely a suspect for good cause, then that changes the whole context and 'flavor' of the shooting. Not that it makes the shooting ipso facto justified. It just makes the situation a lot less black and white (pardon the phrase) than otherwise. I do agree with Sully that if we really want the truth of what happened we can NOT rely on the officers own buddies and colleagues to do an impartial investigation.

#51 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-15 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Officer involved probably did not know the young men were involved in a felony robbery. But the young men walking in the middle of the street didnt know that. Which might explain MB reaction when asked to move off the street and onto the sidewalk.
Fight or flight, one party chose to fight. RL is not Hollywood. Police are not trained to shoot at a suspects legs during heat of the moment confrontations.

#52 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Repeat: The robbery had nothing to do
with the stop --- Ferguson Police Chief
#47| POSTED BY TONYROMA

It's a safe bet to think Mr. Brown, thought it did.

#53 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-08-15 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

I saw the still of the robbery. If that is Michael Brown in that video, he was acting like a thug, pure and simple. Just a big bully stealing from a much smaller, helpless storekeeper. Again, that doesn't mean the cop was justified in killing the kid. But it tells me that maybe, just maybe, this kid had a very aggressive and dominant attitude, probably compounded by the fact that he knew he had just committed a serious crime less than an hour earlier.

My mind is still very open on the topic. But at this point I am not willing to convict the cop of anything yet. I would like to hear a tape recording of the cop's initial account of what transpired.

#54 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-15 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.kfoxtv.com

Mike Brown's friend has confirmed thru his lawyer that he and Brown robbed the store earlier in the day.

#55 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#51 ~ i agree.

Regardless of who thought what & when, which i hope is truthfully sorted out, Ferguson PD is militarized, so that a group of citizens engaged in peaceful protest have had weapons pointed at them which are appropriate for engaging the enemy in Afghanistan (for example). This in itself is a violation of the 1st Amendment, as it inhibits the right to peaceably assemble, & intimidates those who do so.

The militarization of police may emerge as the underlying issue of significance from this incident in Ferguson, MO.

#56 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-15 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#51 "I do agree with Sully that if we really want the truth of what happened we can NOT rely on the officers own buddies and colleagues to do an impartial investigation."

Nor can we rely on the earnest statements from those witnesses who are friends of the late MB.

#57 | Posted by kenx at 2014-08-15 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The Ferguson police chief just recently said at a press conference that the officer did not stop Brown in connection with the robbery.

When asked why a video of the robbery was released, the police chief stated "because you asked for it".

Reporters aren't quite sure how they could have asked for a video they didn't know exist.

Daily Kos

#58 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-08-15 04:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

What's your point Derek? The video is a fake? If so, then yes that would be a huge deal. More likely the video is genuine and the police released it because they are circling the wagons in damage control mode.

#59 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-08-15 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Eyewitness credibility. With this video and Dorian Johnsons admission of robbing the gas station of cigars it is now 0. The other witnesses have said MB was shot in the back, in the head, 10 times etc. Evidence will paint the true picture.

#60 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

the video is real, he stole cigars..$49.50 worth..not a felony..but it appears a death penalty.

#61 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-08-15 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

the video is real, he stole cigars..$49.50 worth..not a felony..but it appears a death penalty.

#62 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-08-15 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

The police confirmed earlier this week that at least 8 shots were fired. Why would it take 8 shots for a police officer to defend himself (the only acceptable reason for the use of deadly force against an unarmed individual) from someone more than arms-length away from him with his hands up in the air? And did I mention unarmed?

#63 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-15 07:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

#60 | Posted by aescal

It doesn't contradict the eyewitness accounts of what happened after he was confronted by police. The police chief has confirmed that the officer who shot him didn't know anything about the robbery.

#64 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-15 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Has anyone called into question the honour of the police department? They've been lying non-stop since the incident.

#65 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-08-15 09:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

www.youtube.com

6:47 So then he ran
Police got out and ran after him
6:50 Then, next thing I know, he (MB) coming back towards him, but the police already got his gun drawn.
Other voice = oh, the police dropped him, son?
Police keep dumping into him, and Im thinking police is missing
(unintelligible)
...like hes pissed off or something
Police fired shots, next thing i know. I think hes missing
Other voice = police shot him?
Yeah police shot him
(background = where is the ambulance?)
Next thing I know, Im thinking..(unintelligible)
7:18 ... start running, he (MB) keeps coming towards the police..

Make your own conclusions...

#66 | Posted by aescal at 2014-08-15 10:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't realize that when you become a suspect that means the cops can shoot you dead unarmed.

#67 | Posted by pragmatous at 2014-08-15 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Too bad the business owner wasn't packing, he could have dropped the worthless thug at the time of his crime and saved everyone all these problems.

#68 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-08-15 11:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here is a picture, don see no holes in his back.

tinypic.com

'witnesses' lying like dawgs, yo

#69 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

#68 Dan,my liqour store,robber comes in,they both shoot each other,both die.Ain't as cowboy as you think.

#70 | Posted by bruceaz at 2014-08-16 01:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

We need to see the dash cam and audio of the encounter, it does prove he was not some innocent little boy. Hell it is hard to feel sorry for someone that is nothingmmore than a thug, he seemed pretty confident when get stole the carton. Its not his first time.

#71 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-08-16 01:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't realize that when you become a suspect that means the cops can shoot you dead unarmed.

#67 | Posted by pragmatous

It doesn't, if you're white.

In America, it's OK to assume that all black people, especially young males are potentially dangerous criminals, thus justifying extreme "defensive" actions.

Logically, it should be OK to assume that all white males are potential serial killers based on the same kind of statistics, but...

Meanwhile, in the real world, most violence on whites is perpetrated by other whites, but for some reason they aren't afraid of other white people.

#72 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 09:27 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The guy in the "video" is older, bald, larger, and wearing flip-flops, likely NOT Michael Brown in the first place. I understand the cops claim Brown's friend confessed to the robbery. There is something screwy going on here.

I believe the cops might want to step back a bit here; everything they do or say makes things worse, which is the textbook definition of a clusterfXXX.

#73 | Posted by john47 at 2014-08-16 10:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

I understand the cops claim Brown's friend confessed to the robbery.

#73 | POSTED BY JOHN47 AT 2014-08-16 10:09 AM | REPLY | FLAG

Dorian Johnson, who is represented by an attorney, has admitted it:

www.ksdk.com

#74 | Posted by anton at 2014-08-16 10:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

#74 Even if true, the DR skeptics won't care. Only their preconceived order of events can be the case. The witnesses can't be lying, but the cops can be lying.

But remember this, you don't need weapons to defend yourself, because only cops should have weapons, according to the left. The cops that they don't trust to use those weapons wisely, and feel are tyrannical.

Oddly enough, the second amendment is to stave off tyrannical authority when it gets out of hand.

Twisted Democrat logic then says to give guns only to the law enforcement which they do not trust past the end of their nose.

#75 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-08-16 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dorian Johnson, who is represented by an attorney, has admitted it:

'witnesses' lying like dawgs, yo

I wonder if the witnesses are able to read their own cursive written statements.

Concepts such as perjury and 'giving false information' are apparently not applies to the 'witness's' demographic.

#76 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oddly enough, the second amendment is to stave off tyrannical authority when it gets out of hand.

Twisted Democrat logic then says to give guns only to the law enforcement which they do not trust past the end of their nose.

#75 | Posted by HeuristicGratis

So if Michael Brown had had a gun, he'd still be alive?

#77 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The guy in the "video" is older, bald, larger, and wearing flip-flops,"

tinypic.com

Footwear appears to match.

#78 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dorian Johnson is only one of three eyewitnesses, at least one of whom didn't even know Michael Brown. Their stories of what happened on the street are consistent (more consistent than what the police have put forward thus far). But I guess since they're black, they must all be lying?

#79 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I didn't realize that when you become a suspect that means the cops can shoot you dead unarmed.

#67 | Posted by pragmatous"

Running away from the cops is not a valid method to escape culpability.

#80 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Running away from the cops is not a valid method to escape culpability.

#80 | Posted by channelabe

Running away from the cops while unarmed should not result in death. By the way, what was he suspected of? According to the police chief, the officer who shot him was unaware of the alleged robbery.

#81 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 11:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

To-Do List

1)stop stealing
1a)stop bullying small people
2)use sidewalks
3)pull up pants
4)don't run from police

#82 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Astute enough, Heuristic, and part of why I do not toe the left's line about guns. Mostly, I just believe the old line that when seconds count, cops are minutes away. That and that there's almost no situation calling the police can't make worse.

The last being related to this story: I don't trust either side. What's it look like to me? That Brown may well have made the mistake of attacking the cop. Who appears to have fought him off, then come out s shooting in anger after the danger had subsided.

Why wouldn't I trust either? The friend clearly has a reason for his grievances, he's going to be angry at the cop, and this story doesn't reflect well on his character. But why would I trust the cop either? The proliferation of smartphone cameras has shown cop culture to be one that is entitled, does not police itself, and comes up with new stories of violence and abuse of authority daily. Add onto that the fact that police are people already willing to commit violence against and destroy the lives and families of people who haven't hurt anyone, merely made the mistake of believing they own their own bodies in this era of absurd (some) drug prohibition. That says something is also questionable about the character of every cop out there as well.

Perhaps when they clean up their image, drop or refuse to advance the unjust war on drugs, police their own, and have cameras and civilian review boards, we'll be able to trust them. I hope. Because I am not against the necessity of law and order within civilization. Just it's abuse.

#83 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Running away from the cops while unarmed should not result in death."

No matter the crime? Running equals escape, if running unarmed?

"Drop it and run! They can't stop you!"?

#84 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

No matter the crime?

Yes. Cops are not judges nor executioners. Their job is to arrest, serve, and protect. Not to hunt, judge, and kill.

Running does not equal guilt. Especially in cultures taught by society to fear cops.

#85 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-16 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But I guess since they're black, they must all be lying?

#79 | Posted by WhoDaMan "

Not necessarily. But let's see the medical report, concerning the number and position of the wounds so graphically related. They may not be lying so much as indulging fantastic imaginings.

Why was the (non)witness in the Trayvon case unable to read the report she claimed she wrote? Facilitated fantastic perjury conspiracy?

The stories won't wash, and the fabricators will not be held responsible, is my prediction.

#86 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Perhaps when they clean up their image

Seriously???? All blacks are to be judged by what you perceive to be their image? Are all bald white men judged by the image of "skinheads"? And what control, exactly, do you think innocent black people have over those who you perceive to have an image that needs to be "cleaned up"? Do you have a responsibility to "clean up" negative images of white people?

I went to college and have held professional positions in Fortune 500 companies for over 35 years. Yet I have to deal with people locking their car doors when they stop at an intersection if I'm standing there. The President of the United States has spoken of the same thing happening to him. This is nothing more than prejudice and bigotry and only the fact that whites control the majority of power in this country makes this acceptable in any fashion whatever. It's not blacks who have a problem with race, it's white people.

We tried the dress nice and speak well thing back in the 1940's and 1950's, when we asserted that we would rather be called "Negroes" than "colored" and still got lynched for being "uppity", still were discriminated against in housing, finance and employment. It was only when we demonstrated in the streets that anything changed. And then only nominally under the law. Cries for "black power" and riots in the later 60's were simply a reaction to the intransigence of whites. Discrimination against blacks in those same areas today still exists.

#87 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Yes. Cops are not judges nor executioners. Their job is to arrest, serve, and protect. Not to hunt, judge, and kill.

Running does not equal guilt. Especially in cultures taught by society to fear cops.

#85 | Posted by kanrei"

'Running does not equal guilt' is of course true. But if the police need to talk to you, running is not an option. They don't know why you're running, only that running is an attempt to usurp their authority.

I remember being warned when overseas not to run from the police under any circumstances, because they shoot at people running away. A society run according to laws is not so easily made irrelevant.

#88 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

But if the police need to talk to you, running is not an option. They don't know why you're running, only that running is an attempt to usurp their authority.

Stop or I'll shoot is a Hollywood invention that has colored cops ever since. Even worse is the Hill Street Blues slogan of "let's do it to them before they do it to us."

Running is not a capital crime.

#89 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-16 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is a quite ironic Abe quote:

"We know, Southern men declare that their slaves are better off than hired laborers amongst us. How little they know, whereof they speak! There is no permanent class of hired laborers amongst us…Free labor has the inspiration of hope; pure slavery has no hope." – Abraham Lincoln in a manuscript of a speech on free labor in September of 1859.

Free labor has the inspiration of hope? He defends free labor, but denies it is slavery?

"There is no permanent class of hired laborers amongst us"

Really? Were there a lot of poor people gaining middle or upper class lives in the 1850's?

#91 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-16 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

The blindness of white supremacy.

#92 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Police are not trained to shoot at a suspects legs during heat of the moment confrontations."

Maybe they should be, and if they can't pass the training then they shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.

#93 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-08-16 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

To-Do List
1)stop stealing
1a)stop bullying small people
2)use sidewalks
3)pull up pants
4)don't run from police
#82 | POSTED BY CHANNELABE

5) don't wrestle with police
6) don't grab for police weapons

#94 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you really think that something on that list justifies the use of deadly force against a teenager with his hands raised in the air?

#95 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Just channeling Abe.

#90 | Posted by Corky"

Good job, but quoting and understanding are not identical. Your selection is a bit lengthy to explain in one sitting.

This subject is difficult to discuss with reason instead of emotion.

Please allow me to try with the last segment. Try to restrain emotion.

"And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

"And inasmuch as they cannot so live" - as two separate cultures in one nation -

"while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white..." - Let us replace 'race' here with 'culture' - and imply that the 'color' of a culture is a matter of choice, unlike skin color.
While we do remain together - as we now assuredly will - we must choose a culture to prevail. We must enlarge the group of so-called 'mainstream blacks' so that the group of 'gangland blacks' is eventually absorbed, at that point we will have a stable society.

...And slavery? Which American black person would trade situations with the one in Monrovia? Don't decide on account of the beautiful shoreline - that, they use for a latrine. Not an emotional condemnation, simply a fact.
"Some households build their own toilets, but these tend to collapse during the seven-month rainy season, Oxfam emergency health engineer Jennifer Lamb told IRIN, so people -------- in the narrow alley-ways between their houses, on the beach, or into plastic bags, which they dump on nearby piles of rubbish or into the sea."
from
www.irinnews.org

That's where the American black would be now, had their ancestors not been sold to the slave traders. Please discontinue complaining about slavery. No one alive today is guilty, or able to do anything about it.

Dang, I have to go now, to chop some stove wood...

But please, feel better about yourself, American blacks. For everyone's sake.


#96 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you really think that something on that list justifies the use of deadly force against a teenager with his hands raised in the air?
#95 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

If thats all he did when told... but he did that after he was shot.....

www.moga.mo.gov

The victim doesn't have to be armed, and doesn't even have to present an immediate threat. Instead, if an officer believes that there's no other way to make the arrest happen, and also believes that the suspect has attempted to commit a felony, the officer is justified in using deadly force. If a cop wants to arrest someone, and has a "reasonable" belief that the person has even tried to commit a felony, he or she is allowed to kill.
reason.com

The question is going to be did Wilson know about the attempted felony.

Or does it matter, trying to disarm an officer is also a felony.
www.komu.com

#97 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-16 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

#95 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN AT 2014-08-16 03:55 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Channelabe has already made it clear he or she believes we live in a third world nation where the police can gun you down just for running and making them work off a doughnut or two. I don't see why they wouldn't find the rest worthy of death.

#98 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

If a cop wants to arrest someone, and has a "reasonable" belief that the person has even tried to commit a felony, he or she is allowed to kill.

And that is what you consider "civilized"? Wow. I guess "due process" and "innocent until proven guilty" are just obsolete concepts.

#99 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Channelabe has already made it clear he or she believes we live in a third world nation where the police can gun you down just for running and making them work off a doughnut or two. I don't see why they wouldn't find the rest worthy of death.

#98 | Posted by zeropointnrg"

I don't believe that.

I know that running from the police is an affront to lawful society, though. Even doughnut munching police have the authority to talk to you. I personally have never had a positive experience with the police, but they do represent us, in a way, even most of them suck, and you can't defeat them by running away. Rule of the fastest? 'Do what thou canst run away from shall be the only law' ?

#100 | Posted by channelabe at 2014-08-16 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

If a cop wants to arrest someone, and has a "reasonable" belief that the person has even tried to commit a felony, he or she is allowed to kill.

And that is what you consider "civilized"? Wow. I guess "due process" and "innocent until proven guilty" are just obsolete concepts.

#99 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

That also applies to the ordinary citizen, if he pulls a weapon in self defense and the attacker breaks off, if the person thinks reasonably the attacker is going to harm others it gives him the right to shoot.

rwd

#101 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-16 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

If a cop wants to arrest someone, and has a "reasonable" belief that the person has even tried to commit a felony, he or she is allowed to kill.

Makes the current felony indictments against Perry awfully interesting. I wonder if he'll be able to tell how many times he's been shot, or if he'll forget at least one. Provided he makes it.

#102 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

The question is going to be did Wilson know about the attempted felony.
Or does it matter, trying to disarm an officer is also a felony.
www.komu.com

#97 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

The answer is yes, Wilson was aware of the nearby strong-armed robbery and during the initial interaction with Brown noticed Brown was carrying cigars. This led to Brown's initial assault on Wilson.

www.stltoday.com

#103 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

From the article, quoting Chief Jackson:

He said Wilson was aware there had been a robbery involving cigars but did not realize when he ordered two young men to stop walking in the street that they were suspects. Wilson made the connection when he noticed cigars in Brown's hand, Jackson said.

#104 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only witness to this initial interaction between Brown and Wilson is Darian Johnson. Since he accompanied Brown in the strong-arm robbery his credibility is going to be nil.

#105 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Darian Johnson's statements are directly contradicted by the only two known witnesses who saw end of the altercation at the squad car and the shooting. This is the baseline account offered by Tiffany Mitchell :

"I didn't know exactly what was going on, but I knew it didn't look right for someone to be wrestling with the police through the police window, but I didn't get a video because a shot was fired through the window, so I tried to get out of the way," Mitchell said.

Mitchell then described what she saw happen between Brown and the police officer.

"As I pull onto the side, the kid, he finally gets away, he starts running. As he runs the police get out of his vehicle and he follows behind him, shooting," Mitchell said. "And the kid's body jerked as if he was hit from behind, and he turns around and puts his hands up like this, and the cop continued to fire until he just dropped down to the ground and his face just smacks the concrete."

#106 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

I fail to see how that is contradictory. Brown made the mistake of trying to wrestle the cop, who fired on him. After which, he tried to surrender, and was executed.

#107 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Was Wilson justified to fire those last shots?

I don't know. I'd like to hear his version, learn about Wilson's injuries ("swollen face" sustained in the scuffle with Brown) and see the autopsy.

#108 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brown made the mistake of trying to wrestle the cop...

#107 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

That was a doozy of a mistake.

#109 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

96 | POSTED BY CHANNELABE

You use a lot of starch in those sheets, do you?

#110 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-16 06:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was. And it can get you killed. In the moment. It should not after the fact. Which I believe most of us agree is where the debate hinges.

The other debate point is whether a cop's word is any more credible than a street thug's. Anymore, I don't see much difference. An opinion brought on not by a problem with authority (I was army, for God's sake) but brought on by the continual abuse of authority and misconduct of police in not opinion pieces, but the news.

Third, and most disturbing to me - the militarized response of the police, that looked like a third world nation putting down an uprising, and nothing like the nation I know and love.

#111 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 06:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

cop's word vs. thug's word? Like I say, I want to hear straight from Wilson. I've heard from Darian Johnson, Brown's companion at both the strong-arm robbery and the shooting, and do not find him credible.

#112 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

On the militarized police, the ongoing uprising shows me why this might be necessary. The response of the looters and their supporters are nothing like the nation I know and love.

I agree that the force has been badly misdirected. Allowing unimpeded looting (like last night) but not allowing non-violent protests strikes me as very poor discretion.

#113 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

#97 | Posted by AndreaMackris

That is an insane standard that probably violates the Fourth Amendment.

The U.S. Supreme Court stated the standard in 1985: "Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent an escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given" (Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1, 11–12 (1985)). Garner concerned the shooting of a suspect fleeing from a burglary who was not believed to pose any physical threat; in that case the Court held that the shooting was an unreasonable seizure of the person. The Garner standard is a substantial modification of the common law, which permitted an officer to shoot a fleeing suspect whom he had probable cause to believe had committed a felony, whether the felony was physically dangerous or not. The judgment that underlies the Garner standard is that while shooting a fleeing suspect may sometimes appear necessary to effect the arrest, the use of deadly force is disproportionate in cases where the suspect does not pose a physical danger to the officer or the community.

Even in a case where the use of deadly force is justified, the force used may be found to be excessive, for example, when it is not found to be necessary under the circumstances. In Burton v. Waller, 502 F.2d 1261 (5th Cir. 1974) cert den. U.S. 964, reh. den. 421 U.S. 39, the use of massive firepower in response to a suspected shot by a sniper in a civil disturbance was held to be the excessive use of force. law.jrank.org

#114 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-16 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know Conservatives claim to support freedoms yet they sure love them some militarized police forces. Ironic much.

#115 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I've been wondering when you might weight in, Et. To say the standard in #97 is "insane" seems a bit strong given that until the Garner decision that does seem to have been the common law standard. From your citation:

The Garner standard is a substantial modification of the common law, which permitted an officer to shoot a fleeing suspect whom he had probable cause to believe had committed a felony, whether the felony was physically dangerous or not.

#116 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#115 It's called law and order, Larry. I don't love the militarized police force, especially if they're going to allow looting but not protesting. If looters were running free in your town you might feel more like this resident of Ferguson does:

www.youtube.com

#117 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is Freedom to Loot one of your top 4, Larry?

#118 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Common law or not, it's insane.

The Common Law justification for this rule has been quoted, for historical value only, by more recent cases: "‘Ordinarily, an officer or private person, in making an arrest for a felony, may use whatever force is reasonably necessary to overcome a resisting felon or to stop a fleeing felon, even to the extent of taking his life; and, if deadly force is used, the homicide is justifiable. The supportive theory is that "felons ought not to be at large, and that the life of a felon has been forfeited; for felonies at common law were punishable with death."'" (See People v. Martin (1985) 168 Cal.App.3rd 1111, 1115.) www.legalupdateonline.com

#119 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-16 08:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Police can guard against looting without military weapons and dehumanized masked faces, though. They can actually try to look like part of the community and leaders of it, rather than an occupying force. They could not squash the very highest law in the land's given right to peaceably assemble during the days while that was happening. They could try to defuse rather than escalate.

Those, along with ready and all too easy overuse of force, are the problems I see. In this situation alone. It could go on and on, particularity in my disgust at such methods to deal with non-violent drug offenders and such, if we addressed other issues of over-militarized police.

#120 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-08-16 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just back in May the State of Missouri amended the law that makes disarming a police officer a felony. Whereas the law previously did not define the weapon, under the amendment the definition now includes the officer's taser, pepper spray, tactical baton or other intermediate weapon on an officer's belt.

"Statistics show that when a weapon is taken from an officer it is usually used on the officer, and unfortunately those occasions are often fatal," said Dale Roberts, the Executive Director of Columbia Police Officer's Association.

www.komu.com

#121 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

From the article:

Rep. Stephen Webber had the bill introduced this year. On May 16, it was passed on two different senate bills.

Webber said one of the reasons he was in favor of introducing this bill was from his former experience in the Marines. He said when he was in Iraq serving as a marine, he was normally not working completely alone.

"When I went out with the Columbia Police Officers and did a ride-along, one of the things that really took me aback with how often we are asking them to operate by themselves, and when you are asking someone to operate alone in a dangerous situation then society owes them all the legal protections that we can give them," Webber said. Dale and the CPOA said that this will help provide additional protection to their officers on the street and so as a representative it is my job to do anything I can to give them those legal protections."

[bold emphasis added]

#122 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mike Brown apparently committed a felony with the strong-armed robbery shown on the Ferguson Market surveillance video. Officer Wilson suspected from the cigars in Brown's possession that Brown was the perpetrator in question, and probably thought the Darian Johnson was also involved.

Indisputably, Brown tussled with Wilson, who says (so we hear) that Brown attempted to disarm him in that tussle. Wilson probably understood this second, more serious felony as an attempt to use his own weapon against him.

It seems very reasonable that Wilson saw Brown as a very serious threat to himself and the community.

#123 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

#123 The officer wasn't stopping him because of the strong arm robbery. He stopped him for walking in the middle of the street.

#124 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 11:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe it wouldn't be so dangerous if it weren't for the fact that half of all the guns in civilian hands in the world are in the US. 300,000,000 guns! But that said, white should be more dangerous since they own twice as many guns (by %) as blacks and almost 3 times as many as hispanics.

#125 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 11:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

From the St. Louis Dispatch link above, quoting Chief Jackson:

He said Wilson was aware there had been a robbery involving cigars but did not realize when he ordered two young men to stop walking in the street that they were suspects. Wilson made the connection when he noticed cigars in Brown's hand, Jackson said.

#104 | POSTED BY DIXVILLENOTCH

#126 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.wibw.com

FERGUSON, Missouri (CNN) -- The Ferguson police officer who shot Michael Brown didn't stop him because he was suspected in a recent robbery, but because he was "walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic," the city's police chief said Friday

#127 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 11:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Without the strong-armed robbery and Brown in possession of the evidence of that felony, you get the narrative posited by Darien Johnson -- that these two guys got harassed for walking while black and Wilson escalated it into shooting an innocent jaywalker.

Without the felony robbery, the tussle -- featuring a claim that Brown attempted to disarm the cop -- seemed to be due to an overly aggressive cop.

The felony robbery changes the whole interchange. It makes the allegation of a felony attempt to disarm the cop much more credible.

The Brown family needs a better lawyer than Crump.

#128 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brown wasn't stopped because of the strong arm. He was stopped because he was walking in the middle of the street. NOTHING MORE.

#129 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 11:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Right-o Larry. You're having trouble with the details tonight? Wilson new of the felony strong-arm robbery and during the stop noticed Brown was carrying cigars.

#130 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

knew

#131 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems Darien Johnson left the part about the two felonies out of his account.

www.youtube.com

#132 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

No Sir it would appear to be You.

www.newrepublic.com

UPDATE: We now have an answer to question number four, above. According to Police Chief Jackson, "The initial contact between the officer [Darren Wilson] and Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery." Wilson approached Brown and his companion "because they were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic."

In other words, Wilson didn't know about the robbery at all when the encounter began. Which calls the incident report's legal relevance to the circumstance of the shooting into question. If the altercation began under totally different pretenses, why try to connect the two? One reason would be to build a narrative that's consistent with Wilson's story. If Brown had just committed a crime, and was willing to tussle, and Wilson thought he was dealing with a couple of harmless jaywalkers, then it's easier to believe that Brown was combative and Wilson was caught off guard. Both things need to be true if we're to believe Wilson's version of events -- that Brown assaulted him, lunged for his gun, and was subsequently shot.

#133 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 11:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dude, read the article already. It's not complicated. Jackson clarified this yesterday afternoon in an interview with the St. Louis Dispatch. Wilson was aware of the felony robbery two blocks away, but stopped Brown and Johnson for walking in the street. Wilson noticed they had the stolen cigars with them.

#134 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Even then...8 shots as Brown moved away from the vehicle. Brown certainly wasn't "lunging for the gun" at that point. Witnesses (not just Dorian Johnson) say he was shot in the back first and then in the front with both hands in the air in a gesture of surrender.

#135 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-16 11:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dude, read the article already. It's not complicated. Jackson clarified this yesterday afternoon in an interview with the St. Louis Dispatch. Wilson was aware of the felony robbery two blocks away, but stopped Brown and Johnson for walking in the street. Wilson noticed they had the stolen cigars with them.

Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-16 11:51 PM | Reply

You're believing the Chiefs lying Amazingggggggg. This is a clear cut case of the police department trying their best to justify the Unjustifiable. It's all Horse Apples.

#136 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-16 11:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

So you believe Dorian Johnson's account that Wilson must have gotten frustrated when the squad car door "richoted off" Brown as Wilson attempted to get out to harass them for walking in the street? I don't.

When you finish reading the Dispatch article, watch the Dorian Johnson interview I linked. Johnson's account is ludicrous.

#137 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

No what's ludicrous is the Chief lying about what happened and then you believing those lies when shown them. THAT is ludicrous.

#138 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-17 12:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

Even then...8 shots as Brown moved away from the vehicle. Brown certainly wasn't "lunging for the gun" at that point. Witnesses (not just Dorian Johnson) say he was shot in the back first and then in the front with both hands in the air in a gesture of surrender.

#135 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

I have posted several times that the hands in the air sequence is significant. Wilson's account, Wilson's injuries and the autopsy will come into play.

Dorian Johnson's account is worthless. Tiffany Mitchell and Piaget Crenshaw will be the ones testifying for the Brown family and they only saw Brown break off from contact with the squad car.

#139 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, Larry, did Brown strong-arm rob the Ferguson Market or not?

#140 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, Larry, did Brown strong-arm rob the Ferguson Market or not?

Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:09 AM | Reply

That's immaterial to why Brown was stopped. Brown was stopped because he was walking in the middle of the street. So Your question is moot.

#141 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-17 12:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not moot at all. It speaks to the reason for the tussle.

#142 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Let's see if the police have the cigars in evidence. Or perhaps Dorian Johnson absconded with them. We'll find out. I'm not looting anyplace in the mean time.

#143 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not moot at all. It speaks to the reason for the tussle.

#142 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Now you're channeling the mind of a dead man?? Amazing times a million.

#144 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-17 12:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

No. I'm channeling the cop. And the Police Chief. And the St. Louis Dispatch.

#145 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not even Crump is dumb enough to hang his hat on Dorian Johnson.

#146 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

No. I'm channeling the cop. And the Police Chief. And the St. Louis Dispatch.

Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:21 AM | Reply

You mean 2 people who are lying. It's painfully obvious.

#147 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-17 12:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

You're an idiot.

#149 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-17 12:47 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

So stipulated.

#150 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-08-17 12:52 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

That also applies to the ordinary citizen, if he pulls a weapon in self defense and the attacker breaks off, if the person thinks reasonably the attacker is going to harm others it gives him the right to shoot.

rwd

#101 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-16 05:42 PM | Reply |
Umm cops can do that, joe snuffy can't shoot a person in the back running away period, unless they are still a threat. The only way for that to be legal, is if the person is still a threat. Example pointing a firearm or shooting as he is fleeing. Other then that, you get a nice set of handcuffs as a prize.

#151 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-08-17 09:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

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