Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, August 07, 2014

Airstrikes on towns in northern Iraq seized by Islamist militants began late Thursday in what Kurdish and Iraqi officials called the first stage of an American-led intervention to blunt the militants' advance and provide emergency aid to tens of thousands of refugees.

Advertisement

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Advertisement

Subscriptions

Author Info

lee_the_agent

 

Advertisement

MORE STORIES

 

Advertisement

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Thanks Dubya

#1 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-07 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Pentagon firmly denied that American forces had begun a bombing campaign. But Pentagon officials said it was possible that allies of the United States, either the Iraqi or Turkish militaries, had conducted the bombing

#2 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-08-07 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Pentagon firmly denied that American forces had begun a bombing campaign. But Pentagon officials said it was possible that allies of the United States, either the Iraqi or Turkish militaries, had conducted the bombing

Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-08-07 07:25 PM | Reply

We're back in Iraq believe that.

#3 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-07 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's official now.

#4 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-07 09:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

We should have glassed it over 25 years ago.

GHW's fault!

#5 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-08-07 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Righties will have a fit trying to ----- about Obama doing this without having to admit Iraq is George Herbert Bush and George Walker Bush's clusterf**k.

#6 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-08-07 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

"When we have the unique capacity to avert a massacre, the United States cannot turn a blind eye," he (Obama) said.

Nor should she.

Just be Happy John Bolton isn't Mitt Romney's Sec of Defense, as planned, or this would be an excuse to go back in rather than perform a necessary humanitarian mission.

I hope we would do the same anywhere in the world this situation occurred that we could.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 01:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Puhlease the oil has landed into enemy hands. We can't have that. (Rolls Eyes)

#8 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 01:13 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

www.cbsnews.com

Sunni insurgents have, by many accounts, gained control of Iraq's largest oil refinery -- a sprawling compound in the town of Baiji, near the militant-held city of Tikrit in the north -- but Iraqi officials have again denied the reports.

#9 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 01:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

www.cnn.com

ISIS claims gains, takes control of Iraq's largest hydroelectric dam

ISIS took control of Iraq's largest hydroelectric dam on Iraq's Tigris River, which provides power to the city of Mosul about 50 kilometers (31 miles) to the south, the commander of the Peshmerga Kurdish fighters who had been defending the facility said Sunday.

#10 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 01:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

#10 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR

Just out of curiosity, how does ISIS gaining control of a hydroelectric dam play into what seems to be your "this has nothing to do with humanitarian efforts as much as it is to protect our own selfish interest in energy resources" narrative.

Let it be known the quotation marks represent air quotes, not a direct quote.

#11 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-08 02:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Don't worry abdula this koran will protect us from that missile.....

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2014-08-08 02:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just out of curiosity, how does ISIS gaining control of a hydroelectric dam play into what seems to be your "this has nothing to do with humanitarian efforts as much as it is to protect our own selfish interest in energy resources" narrative.

Let it be known the quotation marks represent air quotes, not a direct quote.

#11 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-08 02:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

www.npr.org

#13 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 02:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

#13 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR

Again, that article speaks of a foreign, humanitarian threat. If our response is due to such a threat, it is a humanitarian effort, not an effort to secure natural resources for our own self interest, ie oil.

I'm not claiming I have full understand of our true intent, just pointing out some of your posts are not consistent with what I perceive to be your narrative.

Maybe I'm missing your point.

#14 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-08 04:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

www.cbsnews.com

#9 larrymohr

In addition, is the headline of this article still an open ended question? It's been fifteen days since it was asked and I haven't found any answer. You'd think if they asked the question, someone would follow up with an answer. Or are we just satisfied with speculation?

#15 | Posted by memyselfini at 2014-08-08 04:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Isis would not be in control, thousands would not be dying and Iran would not be seizing control if Obama had not pulled out. IRAQ was a peaceful country (more Americans killed in Chicago than Iraq the year before the pullout)

Just another in a string of stupid foreign policy decisions by Obama. Before you comment "what others" are chemical weapons still in Syria? Has the ruler stepped down? Is the "line in the sand" still there? Is Russia out of Ukraine? Is Iran still working on the bomb? Is there southern border secure? Do we have Russian bombers invading our air space? It is 6 years later and there is not a single policy you can point to that has been successfully.

#16 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-08 06:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

I guess your proposed interventions come for free. Have you forgotten the RW mantra that "we're broke"?

#17 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-08-08 07:30 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Just be Happy John Bolton isn't Mitt Romney's Sec of Defense, as planned, or this would be an excuse to go back in rather than perform a necessary humanitarian mission.

In case of emergency, break out the ol' Democrat crutch: "it could be worse".

Sorry, not this time.

They would have never left to create a power vacuum to be filled by an Islamic caliphate in the first place.

#18 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2014-08-08 07:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

There's always money for killing!
Which seems to be the missing element in the "If we had just stayed in Iraq forever, this wouldn't have happened" argument.
BB and FOS, I suppose you guys are willing to pony up more taxes to pay for an endless occupation?

#19 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-08-08 08:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

#18 And you on the right would be happy to have been paying for it the whole time? What a crock of BS.

#20 | Posted by schmanch at 2014-08-08 08:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks Dubya

#1 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2014-08-07 06:45 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Clueless.

#21 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-08 08:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's official now.

#4 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2014-08-07 09:57 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Clueless II. We have never left Iraq. And it took about 2-3 weeks for the special ops guys to get in place and assess the situation on the ground.

#22 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-08 08:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Isis would not be in control, thousands would not be dying and Iran would not be seizing control if Obama had not pulled out.
#16 | Posted by foshaffer

Yeah, it's clearly Obama's fault that Bush invaded Iraq.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 09:29 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"In case of emergency, break out the ol' Democrat crutch: "it could be worse". "

Agreed . Fear mongering over a hypothetical administration is sad.

"They would have never left to create a power vacuum to be filled by an Islamic caliphate in the first place."

I don't see how I "would have never left" is any good either. Indefinite occupation is horrible for us. And we already know the people who support such ideas are unwilling to buck up and pay for them anyway.

There are no good choices. Some screwups can't be fixed. Its inevitable that most of Iraq is going to fall into the hands of horrible people just like it was before we got involved. I don't really have a problem with killing members of ISIS but if we're bombing towns then we're also killing civilians. And dropping bombs on people is not going to make the Iraqi government or military that we left behind any more viable. The best we can do is to help the Kurds maintain their own territory.

#24 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-08 09:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

And yes, this is still mostly Bush's fault. You'd have to be mighty dense to miss the direct link.

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-08 09:37 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Isis would not be in control, thousands would not be dying and Iran would not be seizing control if Obama had not pulled out. IRAQ was a peaceful country (more Americans killed in Chicago than Iraq the year before the pullout)

#16 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-08 06:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Obama had no choice but to pull out of Iraq. The SOFA was signed by Dubya and the Iraqi Government in 2008 which had that ALL our troops would be out by December 31 2011. BTW Obama tried to stay but could not get an immunity from prosecution from the Iraqi Government. Oh and paying Sunnis and Shiites to not kill each other is such a "winning" strategy.

#26 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

...if Obama had not pulled out.

If he hadn't, you'd be up in arms over our troops being on trial in an Iraqi court.

#27 | Posted by apparatchik at 2014-08-08 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This might be a good theatre for some drone action.

#28 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-08-08 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Clueless II. We have never left Iraq. And it took about 2-3 weeks for the special ops guys to get in place and assess the situation on the ground.

#22 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-08 08:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Isis would not be in control, thousands would not be dying and Iran would not be seizing control if Obama had not pulled out. IRAQ was a peaceful country (more Americans killed in Chicago than Iraq the year before the pullout)

#16 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-08 06:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

So guys which is it. Did we leave or didn't we??

#29 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think Obama did this because he was tired of reading about Israel/Palestine.

#30 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Did we leave or didn't we??

We were kicked out. Obama tried to extend the mission but Iraq refused to extend the immunity for our troops.

#31 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

But negotiations ultimately broke down over the issue of legal immunity for any remaining troops, which was an imperative for the Pentagon and a deal-breaker for the Iraqis, who after nearly nine years of U.S. military presence wanted no more infringements on their sovereignty.

As a result, Obama had no choice but to make the announcement he did on October 21.

www.huffingtonpost.com

#32 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 09:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

"We were kicked out. Obama tried to extend the mission but Iraq refused to extend the immunity for our troops."

But the righties will just tell you that if he really wanted to stay he could have tried harder. It's nonsense but it helps them save face after this idiotic invasion and occupation which is now being revealed for the disaster we have always known it would be.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

But the righties will just tell you that if he really wanted to stay he could have tried harder.

At least you don't deny he tried to extend the mission any more.

#34 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

I hate us getting dragged back into Iraq, but letting ISIS massacre tens of thousands and take over the Kurd regions is a dire prospect. There are no good options here for Obama or the U.S.

We never should have gotten involved in toppling Saddam and building a new nation there. The Middle East is where the aspirations of presidents go to die.

#35 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-08 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

We were kicked out. Obama tried to extend the mission but Iraq refused to extend the immunity for our troops.

#31 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

I know.

#36 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

once again, humanitarianism is used as a reason to bomb bomb bomb...

only this time we are bombing a group that we pretty much created in the first place. frankenstein has escaped... again.

#37 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

There are no good options here for Obama or the U.S.

Sadly, true. The least harmful is to not take sides. Especially given the fact we (our government) wants to support these very same rebels in Syria that we are about to start bombing in Iraq.

#38 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

The last 4 presidents bombed Iraq.

#39 | Posted by shirtsbyeric at 2014-08-08 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Especially given the fact we (our government) wants to support these very same rebels in Syria that we are about to start bombing in Iraq.

#38 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Its a little more nuanced than that but it amounts to the same thing. They wanted to arm the less competent "good rebels" so that ISIS and others could come along and take it all from them. ISIS has gunships now that they took from the Iraqi military. They can't fly them and have even less chance of maintaining them. But eventually they will find someone to train them. Maybe Blackwater.

#40 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-08 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

ya ever play that six degrees to kevin bacon game?

ok, now try this-- by photos, link isis to the white house...

i can do it in three steps:

1. john kerry to robert ford
2. robert ford to free syrian army colonel abu-jabbar
3. colonel abu-jabbar to isis leader abu jandal

the picture as proof

what a small world we live in, huh?

#41 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

here's a link that shows one of the real reasons why we are "back" in iraq:

www.theguardian.com

guess who????

#42 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Back in Iraq is begging for a "Back in Black" parody, but I can't seem to get it to flow right. Any takers?

#43 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

We were kicked out. Obama tried to extend the mission but Iraq refused to extend the immunity for our troops.
#31 | Posted by kanrei

If this was the reason, why are we going back? Why did we send 300 advisers? Without immunity?

Part of the SOFA that was written up by Obama still had full withdrawal by 2011.
www.nytimes.com

Obama wanted out, to keep his word. I believe he thought this was what the US people wanted.

#44 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 10:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, the original lyrics to Back in Black actually works:

Back in black I hit the sack
I been too long I'm glad to be back
Yes I am
Let loose from the noose
That's kept me hanging about
I keep looking at the sky cause it's gettin' me high
Forget the hearse cause I'll never die
I got nine lives cat's eyes
Using every one of them and runnin' wild
Cause I'm back

Just change "black" to "Iraq."

#45 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

why are we going back? Why did we send 300 advisers? Without immunity?

Yes indeed, WHY?

#46 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"At least you don't deny he tried to extend the mission any more."

I said before, Malaki wouldn't agree to extending immunity for US forces and Obama, conveniently, accepted his decision. The old saying goes, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth." Malaki's choice was a gift we didn't expect but it allowed us to remove our troops and put all of the responsiblity for any instability following on Malaki who has completely failed as a leader.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

here's aipac in disguise calling for full scale intervention. put together the pieces here...

humanitarian bombing in iraq needed

more humanitarian aid to help... israel...

#48 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Part of the SOFA that was written up by Obama still had full withdrawal by 2011.
www.nytimes.com

Obama wanted out, to keep his word. I believe he thought this was what the US people wanted.

Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 10:23 AM | Reply

Intellectually dishonest much.

en.wikipedia.org

The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

#49 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

second link again: www.washingtoninstitute.org

#50 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

"If this was the reason, why are we going back? Why did we send 300 advisers? Without immunity? "

Most of those troops were sent into protect Americans at our embassy.

#51 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

keep your eye on the ball, folks:

www.meforum.org

#52 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

The least harmful is to not take sides.

You'd be comfortable with the U.S. doing nothing as ISIS slaughters the Kurds and hundreds or even thousands die on that mountain?

#53 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-08 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

only this time we are bombing a group that we pretty much created in the first place.

We didn't create ISIS. Not everything that happens in the Middle East is our doing.

#54 | Posted by rcade at 2014-08-08 10:33 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

We are not the world's police and why this slaughter, but not the ones in Syria, Libya, Ukraine, Palestine, etc?

My comfort is not the issue and we should hardly bomb people just to make Americans feel more "comfortable."

#55 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

50 years ago this week:

en.wikipedia.org

some things never change...

i'm not talking about the government's complete willingness to bomb brown people and to escalate military action against them, under the phoney guises of humanitarianism, liberation or in "defense of freedom"...

i'm talking about americans willingness to lap it up, year after year, generation after generation...

#56 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

"We didn't create ISIS"

--------. we created it's current capabilities and that's all that matters.

#57 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

It begins

www.kgw.com

#58 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

america arming the sunnis-- who become isis 6-7 years later:

www.nytimes.com

http://en.alalam.ir/news/ 1562518

and there were those who definitely saw it coming:

www.rferl.org

www.newyorker.com

#59 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hagel said if the Islamic State moves against Irbil, Baghdad or the refugees on the mountain, "it's pretty clear who they are, and they would be pretty identifiable where our airstrikes could be effective."

Bombing people by guesswork again.

#60 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

With ISIS as the common enemy, this is an opportunity for rapprochement between the USA and Iran. I have to imagine Obama would love to stick it to Netanyahu by mending relations with Iran.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

more american support for isis:

en.alalam.ir

an awesome recap of how we got here:

www.independent.co.uk

#62 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

My comfort is not the issue and we should hardly bomb people just to make Americans feel more "comfortable."

#55 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

I agree with this. And I think at times what the media does in manufacture discomfort so that the next step -aka bombing people -"feels" right. It was very clearly done back when we bombed the Serbs. There was a big media push about how bad the Serbs were (which was true but they conveniently ingored that their enemies were just as bad). Then the bombing followed soon after. Very coordinated. Obama bombing Libya was another example but the media was less convincing this time because not everyone was on board with the PR campaign.

In this particular case, I think a legimate argument can be made that the Kurds have been solid allies to us despite having been abandoned before and if we fail to help them again, it would tell the world that they would be idiots to trust us. Plus, the Kurds are reasonable people who are worth supporting.

But if we sat it out, I wouldn't complain.

#63 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-08 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

in a nutshell, we have the kurds, who want an independent state, giving the usa info on the "gains" made by isis.

the same kurds who are and have been israel's best buds. oh yeah, that doesn't influence things any, lol...

www.defensenews.com

i'm sure it's all objective info we're receiving, right? just like the info we received in the run-up to the iraq invasion.

question it all. and certainly don't swallow anything sourced by the curveball-ish kurdish side as truth.

#64 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Plus, the Kurds are reasonable people who are worth supporting"

www.hrw.org

you be the judge...

#65 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Old Kanrei Mantra:

The Media is there to inform or persuade and an informed populace is harder to control which leaves only persuasion as their objective.

#66 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

you be the judge...

#65 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Considering the region and the source of some of this info is undboutedly their enemies that link practically makes them sound like a boy scout troop.

Like I said, if we sat this out I would have no problem with it but if we're going to make a case to help anyone, my opinion is that they have the best case.

#67 | Posted by sully at 2014-08-08 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

If Iraq had no oil we would not toil in Iraq.

#68 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

John McCain and Lindsay Graham should be proud of their efforts to secure funding for ISIS, it's working out real well.

#69 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

"If Iraq had no oil we would not toil in Iraq."

Irrelevant talking point today. Flying food and water to displaced people and/or bombing ISIS without putting over 100,000 troops on the ground has nothing to do with oil. I agree oil had much to do with Dubya's invasion but it has absolutely nothing to do with what Obama is doing today.

#70 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

www.google.com

Pick your story and source: Obama armed the Syrian rebels. ISIS was born from the Syrian rebels. Therefore, Obama armed ISIS.

#71 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

why are isis air strikes a big mistake? well, here is a list of several reasons:

wemeantwell.com

matt drudge, ever that "fire in the crowded movie theater" type of guy, likes to think of it as a war of religions. how could that be? during the american invasion and subsequent occupation, the christian population in iraq plummeted.

en.wikipedia.org

so, there are those who think the kind hand of america is needed to save those who are left???? huge loads of rotting horse manure!

well, saddam kept iraqi christians pretty safe for quite a while, and we all know what america did to him.

some similarities between my country and the jihadis never cease to amaze me:

http://www.nbcnews.com/ storyline/iraq-turmoil/saddam- husseins-tomb-attacked-burned- militia-iraq-official-n175031

#72 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Irrelevant talking point today. Flying food and water to displaced people and/or bombing ISIS without putting over 100,000 troops on the ground has nothing to do with oil. I agree oil had much to do with Dubya's invasion but it has absolutely nothing to do with what Obama is doing today.

Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 11:05 AM | Reply

You bet it has everything to do with Oil today. Obama is using the Humanitarian meme so the populace will go along with military action. Sad to say.

#73 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

using the Humanitarian meme so the populace will go along with military action

Standard practice. Remember post 9/11? We heard more about how the Taliban treated their women than we did about connections between AQ and the Taliban.

#74 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

"that link practically makes them sound like a boy scout troop"

yeah, "boy scouts", sully. good one:
more info on those kurdish boy scouts-- the pkk

#75 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Standard practice. Remember post 9/11? We heard more about how the Taliban treated their women than we did about connections between AQ and the Taliban.

Posted by kanrei at 2014-08-08 11:10 AM | Reply

Yes Sir I indeedy do.

#76 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Most of those troops were sent into protect Americans at our embassy."

That billion dollar palace embassy in Baghdad is going to anchor the US military in Iraq forever.

#77 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-08-08 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

from some heinlein book i kinda read part of while in college:

"you can lead someone to knowledge, but you can't make him think..."

#78 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

#75 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Its one group of many. In Turkey, not Iraq. And they're not even Islamists. They're commies. Very quaint.

#79 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-08 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

"i'm talking about americans willingness to lap it up, year after year, generation after generation...

#56 | Posted by NerfHerder"

'As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.'

#80 | Posted by FlyUntied at 2014-08-08 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Can we give Assad his checmical weapons back yet?

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-08 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Can we give Assad his chemical weapons back yet?"

no, but we can give them to israel, who in turn can secretly give them to the kurds...

#82 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

It is impossible to control an area by bombing it. When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?

#83 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-08-08 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

kurdish lobbying efforts:

www.reuters.com

methinks more money comes from certain "unnamed countries" with well-oiled american lobby machines...

the key word in term "lobby" is "lob" which means 'to propel', as in the sentence:

"let's lob some more bombs on top of ___________"

it is also similar to the word "lobotomy", which is the surgical removal of a portion of the brain, resulting in effective zombification of the recipient.

what you are left with after lobbyists get their way? oftentimes, "mindless bombing"

#84 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-08-08 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

How many missiles did cruising Bill Clinton launch in the 90's? I know that (from wiki, yeah yeah I know) in operation Desert Fox alone it was over 400, resulting in over 600-2000 deaths.

While the bombing was ongoing, the Vanguards of Conquest issued a communique to Islamist groups calling for attacks against the United States "for its arrogance" in bombing Iraq.*

* Canadian Security Intelligence Service, Summary of the Security Intelligence Report concerning Mahmoud Jaballah, February 22, 2008. Appendix A.

#85 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-08-08 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Economist Interview:

Mr. Obama: Well, look, there's no doubt that a robust, interventionist foreign policy on behalf of certain principles, ideals or international rules is not a tradition that most countries embrace. And in the 20th century and in the early stages of the 21st century, the United States continues to be the one indispensable power that is willing to spend blood and treasure on that.

That is your blood and treasure folks.

#86 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-08-08 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#86 This inflated self-image will be the ruin of our nation. We need to come home, close bases, and secure our borders. If the world map changes, so be it. This nation is broke. we need to raise and secure our own food, water, and energy resources.

I assure you of this. when we fall, not one nation in this world will come to our rescue. not one single country will render us aid.

we will reap what we've sown.

#87 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I could support a 'punitive expedition' operation that included boots on the ground, even in cooperation with our 'allies' in the region, but SCREW anything beyond that.

"Punitive Expedition" means go in, kill as much whatever needs killing as you can, and leave.

#88 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-08-08 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

"America's Moral Obligations in Iraq

Which politician uttered the following words:

"Do we sit on the sidelines and watch an entire people be slaughtered or do we marshal military forces and move in quietly to put an end to it?" John McCain? Joe Lieberman? Scoop Jackson?

Wrong. The speaker was George McGovern, in August 1978.

McGovern is best known for his landslide defeat in the presidential election of 1972 and his impassioned opposition to the Vietnam War. Six years later, when he became the first senator to advocate U.S. military intervention next door in Cambodia, to stop the Khmer Rouge's ghastly slaughter of between 1 and 3 million people, hawks were incredulous.

The Wall Street Journal called McGovern's stance "mind-boggling."

But as Samantha Power explains in A Problem from Hell, McGovern saw no contradiction in his positions. Vietnam, in his mind, had been a profoundly misguided application of American might to prevent a communist-led independence movement from liberating its country from Western control.

Cambodia was genocide. In his view, the U.S. had a particular responsibility to prevent the latter because its war in Vietnam had helped cause the trauma and instability on which the Khmer Rouge seized.

But if McGovern were alive, my guess is that he'd watch this haunting speech by Fiyan Dakhee, a Yazidi member of Iraq's parliament, and then cheer Obama's decision Thursday night to take military action in the country.

Today in northwestern Iraq, 30,000 to 40,000 people have fled to the Sinjar Mountains. If they stay, they will die of hunger and thirst. If they return to their villages, the men will be murdered and the women made slaves.

Their crime is that they are Yazidis, members of one of the world's oldest religions. The jihadist totalitarians of ISIS want to sacrifice them to god. In Dakhee's words, "an entire religion is being exterminated from the face of the earth."

The reasons Americans want to turn away from Iraq are precisely the reasons we should not." (excerpts)

much more at the link from that noted War Hawk (lol) PETER BEINART

www.theatlantic.com

#89 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 01:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"the United States continues to be the one indispensable power that is willing to spend blood and treasure on that."

Are the American people willing to spend blood and treasure on every conflict between fanatical monotheists?

#90 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-08 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

watch this haunting speech by Fiyan Dakhee

www.youtube.com

#91 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

@89

Yeah right. (ROLLS EYES) Tell that to the people in Rwanda Darfur Sudan Chad. We didn't lift a finger to help them. Wonder why. No Oil in it for us that's why. So spare us with the humanitarian meme. It's used to drum up support for Gulf War 3. That's all.

#92 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#90

Another logical fallacy... that we must not intervene where we can because we cannot intervene everywhere.

#93 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

- humanitarian meme.

Genocide is not a meme.

#94 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

". that we must not intervene where we can because we cannot intervene everywhere."

Obama is trying his best to intervene everywhere.

"Beyond that, there are Special Operations forces in countries. Jeremy Scahill in Dirty Wars: The World is a Battlefield, writes, "By mid-2010, the Obama administration had increased the presence of Special Operations forces from sixty countries to seventy-five countries.

...
…[A]mong the countries where [Joint Special Operations Command] teams had been deployed under the Obama administration were: Iran, Georgia, Ukraine, Bolivia, Paraguay, Ecuador, Peru, Yemen, Pakistan (including in Baluchistan) and the Philippines. These teams also at times deployed in Turkey, Belgium, France and Spain. JSOC was also supporting US Drug Enforcement Agency operations in Colombia and Mexico…

www.washingtonsblog.com

#95 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-08 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"We cannot intervene in any nation where oil, trade routes, or pipelines don't exist, period." -Obomber

"Help Sudan or Chad? Did they strike oil?" -US Foreign Interests

#96 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#94 And how many of the Iraqis during gulf war 1 and 2?? And tell me how many of the Kurds did we help Saddam gas in the 1980's?? If Iraq didn't have the second largest proven oil reserves in the whole world we wouldn't care today what happened to these people. Bank on it.

#97 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#94 And how many of the Iraqis during gulf war 1 and 2 did we kill?? And tell me how many of the Kurds did we help Saddam gas in the 1980's?? If Iraq didn't have the second largest proven oil reserves in the whole world we wouldn't care today what happened to these people. Bank on it.

#98 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The American empire invades a sovereign nation, murders thousands, and calls it "Preventing s Slaughter".

I call it "Hope and Change".

#99 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-08-08 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

I thought it was called US Foreign Policy for the last 100 years.

#100 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 03:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

I call it "Hope and Change".

#99 | Posted by Shawn

The rest of us call it "continuing to clean up after dubya"

#101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-08 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know what's Ironic. The pro Obama folks right or wrongers on Gulf War 3 sound EXACTLY like the pro Dubya folks circa 2002 2003 with Gulf War 2. It's like 12 plus years have been evaporated in a matter of hours.

#102 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

collapseofindustrialcivilizati
on.files.wordpress.com

#103 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-08 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's like 12 plus years have been evaporated in a matter of hours.

#102 | Posted by LarryMohr

Minus that whole massive ground invasion and lying about WMDs part...

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-08-08 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

One supposes from some of the comments here that it would be best if these 40,000 people died for our past sins. We wouldn't want to help stop that just because we can.

People like George McGovern, who were not afraid of making judgments on the merits of each case rather than knee-jerking a reaction because of past misjudgments, appear to be few and far between around here.

Fortunately, there are enough brave and responsible people in the real world not to let the past mistakes of others cloud their judgment... and frighten them into submission.

#105 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 05:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

"People like George McGovern,"

Don't even smear McGovern by associating him with neocons like Carlyle Clinton. How low will the DNC go?

#106 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-08 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Let's just give Assad his weapons back. The only reason we took them in the first place is because he was going to use them on groups like ISIS. Maybe we should have been giving him a high five instead of trying to strip him of his ability to cripple the insugency.

And I have to ask the question of those who are opposed to US airstrikes and US intervention, what was your position on the US getting involved to confiscate the chemical weapons?

#107 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-08 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

And I have to ask the question of those who are opposed to US airstrikes and US intervention, what was your position on the US getting involved to confiscate the chemical weapons?

#107 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-08 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was always 100% opposed to Gulf War 2 and now Gulf War 3. I didn't form an opinion on Gulf War 1 because I didn't involve myself into politics at that time.

#108 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does the authority come to just start bombing people?

#109 | Posted by truthhurts at 2014-08-08 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

As John Kerry would say so eloquently:"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text,"

#110 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 06:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does the authority come to just start bombing people?

Good question. Apparently, there is none. The Legal Stakes in an Article II Humanitarian Intervention in Iraq

#111 | Posted by et_al at 2014-08-08 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Authority?!? We don't need no steenkin authority!

#112 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

White House press secretary Josh Earnest----- the Obama administration's foreign policies in a number of areas have enhanced the world's "tranquility" – Whaaaaaattttttt?

#113 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think the President is right and support his decision. I also think if he had not bowed to political pressures and had left a 'smaller force' in Iraq, this would not have occurred. The bad guys who were run out of Iraq went to Syria and now have returned.

#114 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-08 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting....

Iraq Strikes Seen as Giving Putin Pretext in Ukraine
www.nytimes.com

#115 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does the authority come to just start bombing people?
#109 | Posted by truthhurts

What's it matter? You think they should have gotten Congressional approval by lying to Congress first, like Gulf of Tonkin, like both Iraq wars?

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 06:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fortunately, there are enough brave and responsible people in the real world not to let the past mistakes of others cloud their judgment... and frighten them into submission.
#105 | POSTED BY CORKY

According to Obama, just 7 months ago ISIS was JayVee.....

Obama is not managing the future, but reacting to the past, thats his fault.

Minus that whole massive ground invasion and lying about WMDs part...
#104 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

This isn't over, other than checking a checkbox, what purpose does hitting some artillery, and sending in a couple of days of supplies matter?

This is a no win situation.....

The more we "fight" the more likely those on the mountain get slaughtered. The only way out for them, is for us to put boots on the ground. I am not saying do that, but trying to point out the uselessness of our efforts.

#117 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Just as Mr. Obama says he is trying to protect Yazidis and Kurds threatened by Sunni Muslim extremists, Mr. Putin may argue he wants to protect Russian speakers from Ukrainian fascists."

Having said that, I believe it's the right thing to give cover to certain groups in Iraq. Of course, the ulterior motive of protecting oil and its' distribution has to be entertained.

#118 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 06:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Iraq Strikes Seen as Giving Putin Pretext in Ukraine

...followed by a demand for US intervention.

#119 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"where does the authority come to just start bombing people?"

Where does the authority come from to disarm a nation, leaving it unable to decisively defeat it's enemies?

"What's it matter? You think they should have gotten Congressional approval by lying to Congress first, like Gulf of Tonkin, like both Iraq wars?"

You guys seem to be missing the point. The US really doesn't have a dog in this fight. But Syria does, and the reason we're discussing this today is because the west decided that Syria needed to be prevented from attacking those freedom loving, democracy inspired insurgents now known as ISIS.

Doesn't the west owe it to Syria and everyone else in the region to wipe ISIS off the face of the planet, given that we stopped Assad from doing so?

And maybe an apology too? Sorry Bashar, you were right.

#120 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-08 07:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

just reported another round....as it's reported and NOW confirmed...these barbarians have kidnapped hundreds (?) of iraqi women....

here's hoping every bomb finds it's mark !!

#121 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-08 07:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.npr.org

George McGovern, An Improbable Icon Of Anti-War Movement

Yet his surprise emergence as the peace candidate in the 1972 Democratic presidential primaries made it possible for him to seize the presidential nomination of America's oldest and largest political party.

#122 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 07:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

-According to Obama, just 7 months ago ISIS was JayVee.....

IS had been under surveillance since your buddy John McCain was playing footsies with them in Syria, ma'm.

Had we done what the Sec of State at the time wanted and armed the moderate rebels, we would have cut out both IS and AQ , who filled the void instead.

We've been watching this since the beginning, and could have curbed IS's enthusiasm early on had many people been as wise as George McGovern and not dropped their humanitarian responsibilities to their fellow human beings in the world because they are weary of them and rightly disturbed by the mistakes we have made.

There are lots of things we cannot do or should not do, and are not at least partly responsible for, but this isn't one of them.

#123 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fortunately, there are enough brave and responsible people in the real world not to let the past mistakes of others cloud their judgment... and frighten them into submission.
#105 | POSTED BY CORKY

What a shill...I guess passive aggressive shame-facing is still in the sock puppet cut and paste play book. Too funny.

#124 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

The whole globe is now falling apart. We have a feckless foreign policy (if we have one at all) run by an idealess POTUS. The southern border of the U.S. cannot even be considered a border any longer and it's the result of Obama's policies. 70% of Americans believe we're on the wrong track. We should have never destabilized Ukraine and now Russia is responding in kind with sanctions of their own. The global "economic recovery" is tenuous at best and we're on the verge of a trade war similar to tariffs/protectionism exacerbating the great depression time. We can eventually expect another significant market downturn as the Fed attempts to stop printing "funny money". It's a time when the major economies should be working together instead of against each other. Instead, we have a POTUS that has sown the seeds of divisiveness both domestically and internationally and then seems to be disinterested in the absolute chaos with one foot out the door. This will not end well.

#125 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

We have enough to clean up in our own country to last us 2 maybe 3 generations.

#126 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#123 what else have you been instructed to post on the matter? Why don't you just paste all the responses in one post.

#127 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

- instructed to post on the matter?

rofl! Can't make this shi... er, stuff up.

How paranoid is that?

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

#125 ya know Matsop....I'm beginning to think that the plan is going along just as it was drawn up.

#130 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are lots of things we cannot do or should not do, and are not at least partly responsible for, but this isn't one of them.
#123 | POSTED BY CORKY

IS had been under surveillance since your buddy John McCain was playing footsies with them in Syria, ma'm.

Like I said in the whitehouse they were Jayvee, the intelligence knew differently.

But see calling them JavYee matches the mantra that extreme islam is receding......

well is it?

could have curbed IS's enthusiasm early on had many people been as wise as George McGovern and not dropped their humanitarian responsibilities to their fellow human beings in the world because they are weary of them and rightly disturbed by the mistakes we have made.

I doubt you could have curbed their enthusiasm, but certainly could have stopped them at the Iraqi border. Regarding the "weary", we have been in other nations fighting wars the whole century, they aren't weary they are weak willed.

#131 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

They thought we wouldn't send bombers back in.

April Fools -------!

#132 | Posted by Tor at 2014-08-08 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#128 that's sad you've stooped to name calling. It's pathetic of you to accuse anyone of wanting to see another human suffer or be killed.

I support dropping aid and have advocated such here endlessly. Remember the Syria threads? I'm against war, killing, dropping bombs, and gun running. And we only seem to do it when oil is involved which makes me nauseous.

#133 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Maybe we can get the 40K people being slaughtered on PPV for you and you'll be happy. Punk."

lol. Corky's getting all pissy again.

#134 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-08-08 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#125 ya know Matsop....I'm beginning to think that the plan is going along just as it was drawn up.

#130 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:13 PM | Reply

Ya know, deadspin; sometimes as I ponder my navel, I wonder if the Obummer is the most inept and unqualified POTUS we've ever had or is he just following the Saul Alinsky playbook to perfection.

#136 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

- sad you've stooped to name calling.

I responded in kind. Or did "shill" somehow not count?

We can possibly save 10's of thousands of lives by doing a little more than dropping food and water.

It's a dangerous world out there sometimes. Even Peter carried a sword.

#137 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-08 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

And maybe an apology too? Sorry Bashar, you were right.
#120 | Posted by madbomber

Saddam deserves an apology too, wouldn't you say?

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 07:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

We could have possible saved 10's of thousands of lives by being proactive.

Matsop hits on an excellent point, Obama is reacting to every major event going on in the world.

He isn't driving or planning anything foreign or domestic, he has no policy, he has not a plan. He gets his news from the papers, and that guides his REactions.

His beliefs in the way the world works, are an illusion of biblical proportions.

#139 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 07:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Live by the sword, die by the sword Corky.

A dangerous world indeed. All the more reason to come home and secure our borders.

#140 | Posted by DeadSpin at 2014-08-08 07:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Saddam deserves an apology too, wouldn't you say?"

Well, Snoof, that's the problem with the whole death sentence thing. Apologies are pretty much meaningless.

But it would be worth the US government acknowledging that Saddam may have been the best thing for Iraq.

I would have told you 11 years ago that getting rid of Saddam would have only meant having to find another dictator to take his place, and if we wanted his oil he'd probably give it to us at a discount rate for a few F-16s and some tanks.

#141 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-08-08 07:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The US really doesn't have a dog in this fight. But Syria does

What dog have we ever had, then?

Is ISIS not another head of the Cerberus that bit us on 9/11?

What happened to fighting the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them here?

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

In 2003 the pro Israeli neocons who created 9-11-2001 claimed the biggest threat to America are those countries that the Saddam type dictators kept stabilized such as Iraq, and that might someday become a Zionist threat to racist fear mongering dictators like Netanyahu.

The USA is energy independent now, and it needs to wipe its political hands of Israel and the Middle East and begin defending the USA.

These wars help the USA Israeli industrial war machine, not America.

#143 | Posted by Robson at 2014-08-08 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would have told you 11 years ago that getting rid of Saddam would have only meant having to find another dictator to take his place

Yeah. Sadly, the political party you favor picked Bremer for that task.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 07:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The USA is energy independent now
#143 | Posted by Robson

The US will never be energy independent until we nationalize our energy resources. We are dependent on BP, Peabody, etc. and those are not America. It's their energy; we just get to buy it.

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 08:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I am shocked; I tell you, shocked. Our fine Ms. Feinstein has almost inferred that there should be "boots on the ground". What's this world coming to, anyway.

#146 | Posted by matsop at 2014-08-08 08:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Saddam deserves an apology too, wouldn't you say?"

No

#147 | Posted by eberly at 2014-08-08 08:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Saddam deserves an apology too, wouldn't you say?"

No

#147 | Posted by eberly

absurd.....didn't see all of the things he did.....cell phones etc...

just watched link of sub human monsters burying a man alive....

#148 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-08-08 08:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

just watched link of sub human monsters burying a man alive....
#148 | Posted by afkabl2

But... how can you know they weren't burying a sub human monster alive?

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 08:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Ya know, deadspin; sometimes as I ponder my navel, I wonder if the Obummer is the most inept and unqualified POTUS we've ever had or is he just following the Saul Alinsky playbook to perfection."

Or, more realistically, he's stuck dealing with the aftermath of the most inept and unqualified President in history. We would be dealing with none of this had we not invaded and occupied Iraq, Even after invading and occupying we could have minimized the damage had we not allowed Paul Bremer to disband the Iraqi military and the Iraqi police forces. What we are dealing with today is a direct result of the invasion, occupation and then the disbanding of the military and police. Many commentators predicted disaster due to those decisions at the time that they were decided. Even I, not a brilliant scholar or pundit, did post that we were creating a disaster.
Thanks Bush voters. Accept responsibility for once in your lives you cowards! YOu did this! Accept your accolades.

#150 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

What we are dealing with today is a direct result of the invasion, occupation and then the disbanding of the military and police.

Along with the entire bureaucratic infrastructure required for the country to function. Anybody who was a Ba'ath party member, which was basically every civil servant in Iraq, was fired. "all public sector employees affiliated with the Ba'ath Party were to be removed from their positions and to be banned from any future employment in the public sector." en.wikipedia.org

I can't think of a better way to destroy a country.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

#150

Danni digs deep in the blame book...

but lets have a refresher course for today...

"With regards to Iraq, you and I agreed, I believe, that there should be a status of forces agreement," Romney told Obama as the two convened on the Lynn University campus in Boca Raton, Fla., that October evening. "That's not true," Obama interjected. "Oh, you didn't want a status of forces agreement?" Romney asked as an argument ensued. "No," Obama said. "What I would not have done is left 10,000 troops in Iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East."
www.youtube.com

#152 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni digs deep in the blame book...

but lets have a refresher course for today...

"With regards to Iraq, you and I agreed, I believe, that there should be a status of forces agreement," Romney told Obama as the two convened on the Lynn University campus in Boca Raton, Fla., that October evening. "That's not true," Obama interjected. "Oh, you didn't want a status of forces agreement?" Romney asked as an argument ensued. "No," Obama said. "What I would not have done is left 10,000 troops in Iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East."
www.youtube.com

Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:19 PM | Reply

world.time.com

Iraq's Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence

#153 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Anybody who was a Ba'ath party member, which was basically every civil servant in Iraq, was fired. "all public sector employees affiliated with the Ba'ath Party were to be removed from their positions and to be banned from any future employment in the public sector." - Snoofy

This happened as a direct result of us not signing a SOFA... because we were leaving.........

In some ways that is al-Maliki's fault, but hey ....
musingsoniraq.blogspot.com

#154 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Iraq's Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence
#153 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR

Not according to Obama.....

Your defense of Obama VS what Obama said he wanted........

Either he is lying about what he meant or TIME is.....

#155 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

This happened as a direct result of us not signing a SOFA... because we were leaving.........

Are you stupid, Mackris?
De-Ba'athification happened in 2003 under Viceroy Bremer.

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 09:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not according to Obama.....

Your defense of Obama VS what Obama said he wanted........

Either he is lying about what he meant or TIME is.....

Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:30 PM | Reply

I see exactly what is going on Ma'am. The ones who supported Dubya's war in Iraq are trying anything and everything to dump this all on Obama. The Lady Macbeth syndrome is at critical mass now. This is on Dubya and if You REALLY want to get down to brass tacks. Dubya's father. If he would not have reneged on his approval of Saddam invading Kuwait. NONE of this would be happening now. Sorry Ma'am but thems the facts.

#157 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This happened as a direct result of us not signing a SOFA... because we were leaving.........

In some ways that is al-Maliki's fault, but hey ....
musingsoniraq.blogspot.com

#154 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

en.wikipedia.org

The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1]

#158 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

The consequences became clear when negotiations began over the crucial question of withdrawing American troops after 2011. The leaders of all the major Iraqi parties had privately told American commanders that they wanted several thousand military personnel to remain, to train Iraqi forces and to help track down insurgents. The commanders told me that Maliki, too, said that he wanted to keep troops in Iraq. But he argued that the long-standing agreement that gave American soldiers immunity from Iraqi courts was increasingly unpopular; parliament would forbid the troops to stay unless they were subject to local law.

President Obama, too, was ambivalent about retaining even a small force in Iraq. For several months, American officials told me, they were unable to answer basic questions in meetings with Iraqis -- like how many troops they wanted to leave behind -- because the Administration had not decided. "We got no guidance from the White House," Jeffrey told me. "We didn't know where the President was. Maliki kept saying, ‘I don't know what I have to sell.' " At one meeting, Maliki said that he was willing to sign an executive agreement granting the soldiers permission to stay, if he didn't have to persuade the parliament to accept immunity. The Obama Administration quickly rejected the idea. "The American attitude was: Let's get out of here as quickly as possible," Sami al-Askari, the Iraqi member of parliament, said.
www.newyorker.com

Yes Snoofy, I am aware, did you read the De-Baathification timeline?

#159 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry Snoofy, that was Larry...

#160 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

The ones who supported Dubya's war in Iraq are trying anything and everything to dump this all on Obama. - Larry

Here's the thing Larry, I didn't want Dubya's war (Nulli will vouch for my opinion at the time)

But once you commit to this, you ------- commit to it, half assing it gets you were we are today.

We broke it, we bought it...... we stick it out.....

#161 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Here's the thing Larry, I didn't want Dubya's war (Nulli will vouch for my opinion at the time)

But once you commit to this, you ------- commit to it, half assing it gets you were we are today.

We broke it, we bought it...... we stick it out.....

#161 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I Appologize for linking you in with the supporters Ma'am. OK Obama tried to stay in Iraq and the Iraqi Government refuse the immunity from prosecution agreement so Obama honoured the SOFA agreement that Dubya had agreed to with the Iraqi Government. We could not stay they told us.

#162 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 09:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks Bush voters. Accept responsibility for once in your lives you cowards! YOu did this! Accept your accolades.

#150 | Posted by danni at 2014-08-08 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag

Screw that. Everyone forgets the climate at the time, in Washington, which was to remove saddam from power. When Clinton signed the ILA the ink wasn't even dry when he ordered airstrikes against Iraq. He also ordered saddams palaces to be bombed which was clearly against the act he signed. Then we have the icing on the cake when in 2004 he publicly stated he thought saddam still had WMD's when he left office. Cry me a river blaming Bush for invading Iraq when indeed Clinton was the president that got the ball rolling on removing saddam from power.

rwd

#163 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-08 10:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

half assing it gets you were we are today.
#161 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-08-08 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag

No kidding. You can see that sentiment today in the gaza threads.

rwd

#164 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-08-08 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes Snoofy, I am aware, did you read the De-Baathification timeline?
#159 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Timeline? Things that happened in 2009 aren't the reason for things that happened in 2003.

Bremer and the neocons deliberately destroyed Iraq's capacity to govern years before we withdrew.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bush for invading Iraq when indeed Clinton was the president that got the ball rolling on removing saddam from power.
rwd
#163 | Posted by rightwingdon

Clinton, you say.

And the reason you don't go further back to 1991, to the Gulf War, to the imposition of No-Fly Zones is.... what, exactly?

#166 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 11:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

And the reason you don't go further back to 1991, to the Gulf War, to the imposition of No-Fly Zones is.... what, exactly?

Posted by snoofy at 2014-08-08 11:13 PM | Reply

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh those illegal No Fly Zones.

#167 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-08 11:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sinking in the ratings with dem seats up for grabs,obama is wagging the dog:
en.wikipedia.org

Trying to look/act presidential with such low public ratings obama is doing a clinton [remember the {approx} 400 cruise missiles launched which accomplished nothing?]:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Cruise_missile_strikes_on_Afgh anistan_and_Sudan_(August_1998 )

This is just a too little, too late to impress the voting public - nothing less and nothing more.

#168 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-08-09 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

wagging the dog

I remember the last time the Republicans made the same lie. In fact, if you know history, you can understand we're still paying for it.

#169 | Posted by YAV at 2014-08-09 12:21 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This is just a too little, too late to impress the voting public - nothing less and nothing more.

Posted by MSgt at 2014-08-09 12:11 AM | Reply

Ummmmmmmmmmm Obama can't run again.

#170 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-09 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

- We could have possible saved 10's of thousands of lives by being proactive. - Mackris

Hillary appreciates your support.

#171 | Posted by Corky at 2014-08-09 01:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

#170 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2014-08-09 12:32 AM | FLAG: Could be that with the Nov elections coming up he is attempting to make lib dems look 'better' - ;ol

#172 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-08-09 01:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

#170 | POSTED BY LARRYMOHR AT 2014-08-09 12:32 AM | FLAG: Could be that with the Nov elections coming up he is attempting to make lib dems look 'better' - ;ol

Posted by MSgt at 2014-08-09 01:22 AM | Reply

Puhleaseeeeeeee Obama threw we Liberals away once he got elected. We on't count anymore.

#173 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-09 01:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

LARRY is don't ask don't tell over?

Did Americorps get more funding?

Did USAID start giving more food?

#174 | Posted by Tor at 2014-08-09 02:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Good to see the airstrikes kicking ISIS's ass hard. Good vs evil, no debate.

#175 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-09 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sinking in the ratings with dem seats up for grabs,obama is wagging the dog:

#168 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2014-08-09 12:11 AM | FLAG:

I disagree. This situation is for real. But was caused because Obama made the political decision to withdraw all US troops instead of leaving a small 'hammer' behind.

The tail wagging the dog is the 'crisis' at the border. This was a orchestrated event with coordinated efforts by several Latin American countries who made it easy for the 'refugees' to 'wander' 800 miles and wind up at the US border. Dems were losing favor with Hispanic voters so this was 'crisis' was launched about 8 months ago and now is in full swing . Just in time for the NOV elections.

#176 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-08-09 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

I am extremely grateful to God almighty that I am disabled, retired and old. I would have to violate my oath of office if ordered to go back to that sewer. I will hide any service member who disobeys this order given by the current CIC.

#177 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-08-09 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

On Dec. 14, 2011, President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama delivered speeches at Fort Bragg, North Carolina that the White House posted under the headline: "Remarks by the President and First Lady on the End of the War in Iraq."

"It's harder to end a war than begin one," said Obama. "Indeed, everything that American troops have done in Iraq -– all the fighting and all the dying, the bleeding and the building, and the training and the partnering -– all of it has led to this moment of success.

"Now, Iraq is not a perfect place, Obama said. "It has many challenges ahead. But we're leaving behind a sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq, with a representative government that was elected by its people. We're building a new partnership between our nations. And we are ending a war not with a final battle, but with a final march toward home.

"This is an extraordinary achievement, nearly nine years in the making," said Obama.

At the end of his speech, Obama said: "You helped forge a just and lasting peace with Iraq."

On the campaign trail eleven months later, just before the 2012 election, Obama repeated in Cincinnati on Nov. 4 what he had said earlier that day in Hollywood, Fla.

"But you know I say what I mean and I mean what I say," said Obama. "I said I'd end the war in Iraq. I ended the war in Iraq."

He repeated the same words the next day in Madison, Wisconsin, and Columbus, Ohio.

"But here's the thing, is you know I say what I mean and I mean what I say," Obama said in Hollywood, Florida on Nov. 4, 2012. "I said I'd end the war in Iraq--I ended it."

The statement was similar to many others Obama made on the campaign trail in the 2012 campaign."

He could have easily gotten a SOFA if he wanted it but as you can see he took credit for ending it - until it now when it shows that it was a massive mistake. So either he lied then or he lied in the recent announcement. But lying is is strong suit which is why he does it so often.

#178 | Posted by foshaffer at 2014-08-09 11:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Still blaming Obama for Iraq. LMAO

#179 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-08-09 11:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Advertisement

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2014 World Readable

 

Advertisement

Drudge Retort