Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, July 30, 2014

Israeli tank shells slammed into a crowded U.N. school sheltering Gaza war refugees Wednesday, killing 15 Palestinians and wounding 90 after tearing through two classroom walls, a health official and a U.N. aid agency said. Later, Gaza health officials said 15 people were killed and more than 150 wounded by an Israeli airstrike in a crowded shopping area. Gaza health ministry official Ashraf al-Kidra said the area was busy Wednesday because residents thought a cease-fire was in place.

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The overall Palestinian death toll rose to at least 1,258, with more than 7,100 wounded, said the health official, Ashraf al-Kidra. Israel has lost 53 soldiers and three civilians.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Disgusting.

#1 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-30 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

#3 | Posted by visitor_ at 2014-07-30 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Disgusting.
#1 | POSTED BY 726

Certainly is.....

In other news, yet another UN school is found to have missiles.

It would seem to me staying away from UN schools would be a good idea.

UNRWA, the UN aid agency for Palestinian refugees, says it's found another rocket arsenal stashed at one of its schools in the central Gaza Strip. This latest find is the third case of arms discovered at a UN-run school since the outset of Operation Protective Edge.

The UN agency says the school was closed for the summer and not in use as a shelter.
www.timesofisrael.com

Since it won't make it to the front page...

Poll: Twice As Many Americans Blame Hamas For Gaza Violence Than Israel
washington.cbslocal.com

#4 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-30 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

This is just crazy stuff.

#5 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-30 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

It would seem to me staying away from UN schools would be a good idea.

Do you have any pragmatic advice? It seems you just live in a wonderland full of rainbows and marshmallows. It must make you very happy. After all, ignorance is bliss.

#6 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-30 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"Mess with the bull, you get the horns."

bad analogy. the bull is the victim in the bullfight. palestine is the victim of zionist aggession over the past three generations.

before zionism, the natives of the area lived in peace and relative coexistence.

the palestinians are only guilty of being in the wrong place ant the wrong time and then having the gall to fight back when their land was taken...

and the gall to remember that it is still as much a crime now as it was then...

#8 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-30 12:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you have any pragmatic advice? It seems you just live in a wonderland full of rainbows and marshmallows.

I was wondering the same thing. But he probably doesn't care where hundreds of thousands of Gazans seek shelter, or that they can't even go to a UN facility and trust that it will be safe from attack. Because if some UN facility somewhere had a rocket hidden in it -- which news reports indicate is an extremely rare occurrence -- then it's OK to blow any UN shelter up with hundreds of innocent people inside.

#9 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 12:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Ok, here's a better analogy:

Fire rockets at civilians in Israel and the IDF will mess you up real bad, even if you hide among non-combatants.

#10 | Posted by visitor_ at 2014-07-30 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Since it won't make it to the front page...

It's already on the front page, because it's the same poll with the startling fact that a majority of Americans under 30 blame Israel more than Hamas.

#12 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fire rockets at civilians in Israel and the IDF will mess you up real bad, even if you hide among non-combatants.

Or it will just kill a staggering number of non-combatants and the fighter will be off somewhere else fighting Israel tomorrow.

Or the fighter will be killed with all those non-combatants, and the survivors of the attack will become fighters against Israel in the next war.

#13 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Stop the violence, stop Hamas.

#14 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-30 01:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

even if you hide among non-combatants.

#10 | Posted by visitor_

This constant presumption from the apologists for Israel, that combatants and non-combatants have any room for separation in Gaza, is astounding.

#15 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-07-30 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

This constant presumption from the apologists for Israel, that combatants and non-combatants have any room for separation in Gaza, is astounding.

#15 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-07-30 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Israel is ordering them all to pack into a smaller area now too. The "human shield" argument becomes infinitely less credible when its Israel ordering these people to condense into a smaller area.

#16 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-30 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It's strange. The Republicans have no Jewish members, yet they support Israel unequivocally.

#17 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-07-30 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm going to go out on a limb here:
Either American targetting systems sold to Israel are crap or Israeli's have bad aim. Or both.
They found munitions ? Before or after the bombing ? They saw/detected munitions but didn't see refugees ?
Lee,
Republicans voted in favour of apartheid. I don't see a lot of high veldt Du Plessis's amongst them though. Suppose Comes easily to them it seems.

#20 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-30 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Israel is ordering them all to pack into a smaller area now too. The "human shield" argument becomes infinitely less credible when its Israel ordering these people to condense into a smaller area.
#16 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-07-30 01:30 PM | FLAG:

Putting them all in one area makes it easier to kill them.

It's strange. The Republicans have no Jewish members, yet they support Israel unequivocally.
#17 | POSTED BY LEE_THE_AGENT AT 2014-07-30 01:32 PM | FLAG:

They are Christians. They want all the Jews to go to Jerusalem in order to piss off Jesus so he can come back and kill them all and bathe in Jewish blood and then reward the Christians by taking them to heaven.

It's all in the fiction novels they carry around with them.

#22 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-30 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Good job Rcade. You have successfully created an atmosphere where the Jew haters feel comfortable flaunting their hatred. What did you think would happen with all your heavily biased threads dominating the front page? Whatever. I'm outta here for a while.
#19 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2014-07-30 02:58 PM | FLAG:

You should make a thread about it, ala MaryTylerW____.

You can cry about the mistreatment of Israel by the media and here on the DR.

By the way, the comments aren't about Jew hate (ignoring anticadillac).

They are about Israel's habit of bombing civilians. Killing innocent men women and children.

You're still too caught up in Israel = Jew, Palestine = Muslim.

This is about people killing people. An imprisoned people.

During WW2 America had the option of long term war with Japan or dropping two nukes.

We nuked. It "saved lives". And ended the war.

Perhaps you believe the same should be done in Gaza.

Perhaps it should. Maybe the West Bank will fall into submission if they see what will happen if they don't obey Israel.

Or perhaps it will make things worse. Who knows.

Either way. To throw a temper tantrum because we are critical of Israel's actions is childish. Israel isn't infallible. And the Palestinians aren't all members of Hamas.

Stop turning a blind eye to the whole story.

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-30 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-30 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

In his defense, there is a now deleted anti-semetic post that was up for several hours and that is almost certainly what Moder8 was talking about.

#26 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-30 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

survivors of the attack will become fighters against Israel in the next war.

#13 | Posted by rcade

So, one should not attack someone who is attacking you because they may get mad and attack you?

#28 | Posted by Marty at 2014-07-30 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, one should not attack someone who is attacking you because they may get mad and attack you?

Yes. The best response is pacifism.

Also. Chicken or the egg Marty? Who attacked first?

#29 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-30 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#27 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-30 03:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

There was one post and it was deleted.

What we see alot more of is people trying to pretend that criticizing Israel policies is the same as being anti-semetic - which is ridiculous Al Sharpton type crap.

#30 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-30 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Or the fighter will be killed with all those non-combatants, and the survivors of the attack will become fighters against Israel in the next war.

#13 | Posted by rcade

SO - killing now-non-combatants (future infidel-hating "fighters") is not a bad thing...?

#31 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-07-30 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

What we see alot more of is people trying to pretend that criticizing Israel policies is the same as being anti-semetic ...

Moder8 doesn't want to talk about Israel shelling a UN shelter or blowing up Gaza's only power plant, or the massive civilian casualties, so he's accusing me of encouraging anti-Semitic hatred.

The news stories here reflect the events happening in the war. The commentaries linked here lay out at depth why they take the view they do on the conflict, and many of them come from longtime supporters of Israel.

If you have a problem with the front page, tough. I think it is a proper reflection of what is happening, and it will continue to reflect this until Israel stops massacring civilians.

#32 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, one should not attack someone who is attacking you because they may get mad and attack you?

We're talking about kids. There's no reason they had to grow up to become enemies of Israel, but when you kill their families and their neighbors and you shell their homes, what would you expect them to do when they reached adulthood?

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#32 - I think his problem is with the imbalance of the coverage. This gets covered, rockets in schools do not.

Hospitals getting hit gets covered, Hamas being headquartered under the largest hospital in the region does not.

Alleged mistreatment of Palestinians by Israelis gets covered while Hamas members executing Palestinians they accuse of being Israel sympathizers does not.

A front page double standard sort of deal.

#35 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-30 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Animals (the Israelis). No more to say, the truth not allowed on this site.

#36 | Posted by livi at 2014-07-30 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think his problem is with the imbalance of the coverage. This gets covered, rockets in schools do not.

Gaza Rockets Hidden in School (front page story):

www.drudge.com

#37 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

HG; All of that has been covered in the stories I have heard on NPR. Maybe you're listening to biased news? Or maybe you're not hearing the balance in the coverage? I'd challenge you to find and read a transcript of the news you're criticizing. I bet it's more balanced and factual than you think.

#38 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-30 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

#37 Who initiated this story and who initiated the rockets story?

I think that is the point. You have the power to move things directly to the front page and Moder8 seems to think this being moved to the front page while not moving the dirt on the other side to the front page is a double standard.

Sure it might make it if enough people participate, but you have the power to paint the picture in equal parts black and white. Moder8 seems to think you are hovering too close to one end of the gray scale.

Just analyzing what the individual seems to be saying.

#39 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-30 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38 Not discussing the news in general. Moder8 was discussing this site in general and the poster of this thread in specific.

#40 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-30 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

The site has been covering the events that are occurring. If that makes Israel look bad, then....

#41 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-30 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is your front page Rcade. Spare me your indignation.

'I Can No Longer Live In This Open Air Prison'

IDF Shrinks Gaza 40% by Creating 'No Man's Land'

Sullivan 'Greater Israel Is the Goal'

Israel Shells UN School Killing 15

Israel Destroys Gaza's Only Power Plant

Congress Rushes $225 Million Missile Package to Israel

#42 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-30 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh. And I fogot:

Cole: Israel's Strategy is Causing War, Not Ending It

and

Americans Under 30 Blame Israel More Than Hamas.

#43 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-30 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Truth hurts.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-30 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

So what Moder8?

When the Zimmerman trial was being held there were easily a dozen threads about it.

Or Benghazi.

Or what have you.

It's news.

Just so happens a lot is happening in Israel currently.

Hospitals getting bombed. Power plants and schools being bombed. Citizens of Gaza being forced to relocate at Israel's whim. Congress giving Israel more money. Etc etc etc...

There's a lot going on.

You've got nothing other than accusing people of hating Jews.

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-30 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

There's a lot of Haters on the Retort.

#46 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-30 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is your front page Rcade.

You left off your own link that's on the front page:

Brooks: When Middle East Conflicts Become One

The news reflects the situation that is happening. I think you have a problem with what the war says about Israel, not with me. If any other country was blowing up power plants and bombing civilians and ordering hundreds of thousands to evacuate their homes -- when they have no place to shelter -- you'd be singing a different tune.

Netanyahu came right out and said the Palestinians will never have a free state if he has anything to say about it: "I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan."

www.timesofisrael.com

His plan is to keep Palestinians under Israel's thumb forever and use any radical action by their militants as a pretense to put them further under control.

Does that strike you as an effort that should get equal amounts of praise and criticism on a liberal-leaning site? The Retort reflects how a lot of people feel about Israel at the moment, including people who have long sympathized with the country.

#47 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Uh oh RCADE's laying the shizzle on the drizzle for the pizzle retortizzle

Fer Shizzle.

#48 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-07-30 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

His plan is to keep Palestinians under Israel's thumb forever...

#47 | Posted by rcade

IMO, his plan is the eventual extermination or exile of all of the Palestinians, resulting in Israel not having any continuing responsibility for the Palestinians, at all.

#49 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-07-30 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

IMO, his plan is the eventual extermination or exile of all of the Palestinians, resulting in Israel not having any continuing responsibility for the Palestinians, at all.

If that's the plan, it's exceptionally foolish. There were 3 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank in 2000 and there are 4.4 million today, not counting the 1.5 million Palestinian refugees are living in camps in neighboring countries. The Palestinian population is growing 33% faster than Israel's rate.

#50 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Israeli tank shells slammed into a crowded U.N. school sheltering Gaza war refugees Wednesday,...."

Was the first, second or THIRD UN school harboring Hamas rockets?

#52 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-30 05:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry boys, but "he made me do it" is weak sauce.

#53 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-30 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can someone explain why it's worth blowing up schools and children to go after these rockets when Iron Dome can simply shoot them down?

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-30 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#54 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-07-30 06:02 PM | FLAG: Did Snuffy REALLY write this????

#55 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-30 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Am I to assume that children are all that are being hit?

70% of the Palestinian casualties are civilians, according to several humanitarian organizations tracking the conflict. Forty six percent of the Palestinian population is under 15. In Gaza, over 800,000 of the 1.77 million living there are children. So a campaign as brutal as what Israel is undertaking, with 1,258 dead and 7,100 wounded per the link, is going to inflict a lot of child casualties.

#56 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-30 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Something to keep in mind is that roughly half of the people in the Gaza Strip are under 18, and about 40% are under 14.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-30 06:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did Snuffy REALLY write this????
#55 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Did you just not answer it?

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-30 06:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

#50 | Posted by rcade

It's a long term plan. It's hard to carry out such a thing in one generation.

#59 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-07-30 06:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Were there rockets in the basement?

#60 | Posted by Donald at 2014-07-30 09:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Truth hurts.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian

yes??

#61 | Posted by truthhurts at 2014-07-30 10:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

I blame Hamas. They know what they're doing.
they are doing a GREAT job of controlling media access and manipulating what the outside world BELIEVES is happening.

see, e.g.:
twitchy.com

#62 | Posted by drudge_comment at 2014-07-31 12:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hamas seems super into finding peaceful solutions:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

#63 | Posted by drudge_comment at 2014-07-31 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

#47 His issue is not with what is on the first page in general. His issue is with what YOU specifically write (write a blog entry) and place on the front page, using your administrative powers and privilege.

He feels you are greatly imbalanced in the content you choose to present with your administrative powers, favoring one side over another while there is damning information on the other side.

For instance:

Italian Reporter Reveals Hamas Cover-Up Over Misfired Rockets
www.israelnationalnews.com

Militants ‘blow up UNRWA clinic,' killing 3 soldiers
www.timesofisrael.com

It calls into question all the instances where Israel is automatically blamed for civilian deaths, especially surrounding civilian areas which are often used to store or serve as the launch pad for Hamas rockets.

In objective analysis of credible claims, who really has more gain from Palestinian civilians being killed in the matter? Isreal does not gain any favor in the world by having Palestinian civilian deaths, so they are surely not doing it intentionally (if they wanted to intentionally kill a lot of Palestinian civilians they could easily do this whenever they wanted).

Hamas does have something to gain with Palestinian civilian deaths (not matter if they intentionally kill the civilians, accidentally kill the civilians by misfired rockets, or simply make false civilian death claims) when they can blame it on Israel and diminish their support from the rest of the world.

Who really has more to gain from civilian deaths, accidental or intentional?

#64 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-31 07:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

#54 Because one does not want to blindly depend on the Iron Dome to continue to function at the high rate of success it is functioning at currently.

It is nice to have a rocket defense system, but one would still prefer the enemy have no rockets.

Also note that low altitude and short range mortar shells do not get picked up by the Iron Dome system.

Common sense tells one that rockets should be removed. You would think Palestinians would get on board with that seeing as a high number of rockets don't make it out of Gaza and end up killing innocent Palestinian civilians.

#65 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-31 07:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

" imbalance of the coverage. "

You must be blind. Imbalance? 1200 people dead. 80% confirmed civilians.

The only imbalance is in the brains of people who equate 80% civilian Palestinians deaths in 2014 to Hamas without looking at the actual facts. Making up as much cognitive dissonance as possible and calling it fact so you can still wear the Israeli flag lapel pin.

#66 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-07-31 08:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You would think Palestinians "

No. You aren't thinking. You are overflowing with entitlement created cognitive dissonance and blind faith in what you believe. You haven't begun to think.

#67 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-07-31 08:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Israel will continue to hurt itself as long as it continues on the path of collective punishment.

And future Israeli citizens will cry about the pain they so happily once caused. About how they made the same mistake for decades.

#68 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-07-31 08:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

#68 is this your example of the cognitive dissonance you mentioned in #66 and #67 (ala obsession with the phrase style)?

You see, there are factors on both sides that are obscure. I asked a question about what is more reasonable, who benefits more from the death of civilians?

I didn't claim anyone is killing civilians intentionally, I included the possibility but did not claim anyone did this.

Many on this site seem to indicate Israel is killing civilians intentionally to reach some nefarious goal, which is unreasonable when looking at the matter.

Are both innocent, of course not. Is it reasonable to put it squarely on Israel as intentional death to civilians? In no way.

Moder8 is correct, there is an imbalance of coverage from the poster Moder8 is taking issue with. Grievances against Isreal are promoted while grievances against Hamas are seemingly ignored.

The number of deaths does not determine the importance of the situation (otherwise we would be talking about ISIS, SYRIA, LIBYA, etc. killing civilians at much higher number). What is important (outside of the emotionally driven hysteria) is to fairly and accurately analyze the situation. Not all deaths ascribed to Israel are caused by Israel. That is an important fact. Not all strikes by Israel avoid killing civilians. That is another important fact.

To look at the situation rationally and fairly you have to be honest about those two things and give them appropriate weight. You have to include Israels actions and views. You have to include Hamas' actions and views.

Is a two state solution or peaceful solution possible with Israel and Hamas in the picture? Why or why not.

I have no cognitive dissonance on this matter. It all needs to be analyzed, unfortunately it is not all being analyzed according to Moder8 when it comes to the poster of this thread and the other threads like it posted by that same individual.

I understand you are upset by the deaths, as most people are, but that does not give you license to throw reason to the wind in favor of emotional hysteria.

#69 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-31 09:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

#67 You didn't read it in the whole, you reacted to this phrase alone. Please. Discourse not disgust.

#70 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2014-07-31 09:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

#69 | Posted by HeuristicGratis
"I understand you are upset by the deaths, as most people are, but that does not give you license to throw reason to the wind in favor of emotional hysteria."

Both sides could use a strong dose of this.

#71 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-07-31 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why is agriculture being razed ? No food, no water, no power. And the people of Gaza are supposed to vote Hamas out ? Does Bibi really believe this ? If not, what's the aim here ? Perhaps to reduce Gaza to a rump wasteland/settlement so as to dominate any future PA.

#72 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-31 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

If israel "knew" there were rockets in the school, why didn't they send in their powerful military's ground troops?

They'd rather risk killing dozen of innocent kids than risk a few of their well trained commandos?

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-07-31 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hamas is great! They rule by intimidation and fear, and get you suckers to think that Israel is to blame. Can I hire them to be my PR firm?

www.algemeiner.com

#74 | Posted by drudge_comment at 2014-07-31 06:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#74

I suppose I could answer your tripe in a number of ways, but I think that best one is to simply point out that Israel has far more money given to it by the American empire to buy people such as yourself to spread propaganda. It isn't even close.

#75 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-31 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well duh... what do you think is going to happen when they hide weapons in schools?

1. Take out the weapons... you'll kill some of their children
2. Don't take out the weapons... your children may be killed.

#76 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-07-31 07:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

1. Take out the weapons... you'll kill some of their children
2. Don't take out the weapons... your children may be killed.

#76 | Posted by sames1

Howbout go in and take the weapons. Why is bombing the first resort?

#77 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-07-31 07:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

.... First and Foremost: Israel has No Right to Exist!

**** Israel couldn't be the TERRORIST State it is without lots of help (including Money and Weapons) from the Obama Govt..which says a whole nasty bunch about the Obama Govt!

#78 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-07-31 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

.... First and Foremost: Israel has No Right to Exist!

The UN says different ----.

rwd

#79 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-07-31 10:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

No state has the right to exist. The "right to exist" trope is old propaganda that apologists bring out when they have no real excuse for Israels behavior.

#80 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-31 10:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Many on this site seem to indicate Israel is killing civilians intentionally to reach some nefarious goal, which is unreasonable when looking at the matter."

In reality, if you fire missiles at civilians you are intentionally killing them. The idea that you can claim you didn't intend on killing someone you're shooting at is absurd. Maybe they are located near some bad people or some weapons who are the primary targets but if you know they are there and you fire at them then you don't get to claim it was some kind of accident. We are all responsible for the forseeable results of our actions. People who don't intend on kiling civilians don't fire missiles at them.

Whether it is right or wrong to do so during war varies greatly from situation to situation and is highly subjective. But when people lie about what they are doing, it makes me question whether they even think they are justified. If Israeli leaders were to say "Yes, we know our actions are going to kill civilians but we feel that it is either them or us and we have a duty to save our people", some would still disagree but it would at least be an honest point. This denail garbage just makes them sound like liars covering up a crime.

#83 | Posted by Sully at 2014-08-01 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

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