Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, July 29, 2014

Andrew Sullivan on Israel: At some point, the denials and equivocations and diversions and distractions fade away to that core reality: why are they continuing to settle the West Bank? It empowers Hamas, it weakens the Palestinian Authority, it is a constant grinding of salt into an open wound. ... It would be much simpler to condemn Hamas' extremism, if there was clearly another way forward. But Netanyahu -- because of the settlements -- has blocked any way forward. The Palestinians have two options: bombardment and blockade or the humiliation of more settlements. Which is why I have come to the conclusion these past six years that Greater Israel is the goal, that nothing else really matters, and anyone who doesn't see that is a useful idiot.

Advertisement

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Advertisement

Subscriptions

Author Info

rcade

 

Advertisement

MORE STORIES

 

Advertisement

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Well, dur!

Netanyahu said very clearly when he left office in 1999 that he had no desire for peace and that he did everything in his power to obstruct peace negotiations.

#1 | Posted by censored at 2014-07-29 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

I can see Rcade is promoting lots of anti-Israel articles to the front page. Fair enough. But let's just be aware of the choices being made. This is the second Andrew Sullivan piece in just a few days.

#2 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I can see Rcade is promoting lots of anti-Israel articles to the front page"

No, those are anti-Israeli government policy, not anti-Israel. NuttyYahoo has to go, otherwise the U.S. should cut off aid.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-29 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 "promoting lots of anti-Israel articles to the front page."

Americans have had 65+ years of pro Israeli propaganda shoved down our throats, that in the end costs every American disproportionately, not only in lost lives (as on 9-11 and Iraq War), but in taxes, and in wars for Israel's security, and disfavor too from the world. Meanwhile Israeli first oligarch billionaires with their offshore tax havens and miniscule tax rates who should be paying, pay almost nothing.

Israel is creating their own massive wave of negative public opinion. I see it from friends and relatives that heretofore had nothing negative to say. The world is sick of Israel's whining about being the perpetual victim, when the truth is they are the Goliath in their purposely created David and Goliath scenario because they want land. The people of the USA are tired of paying the freight for Israel's genocidal policies.

#4 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-29 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Which could be easily stopped if the American empire threatened sanctions on Israel if they didn't make peace; or stopped vetoing UN sanctions.

This is and has been for decades Americans fault for deliberately creating and maintaining this situation. There is nothing ambiguous about it.

Nothing what so ever.

#5 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-29 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

IMO, if you disagree with the content of the article, you should say why.

Otherwise it seems like you're telling Rcade he shouldn't post it because you don't like it.

#7 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-29 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

For those interested, Netanyahu brags in 2001 about deceiving the U.S. and sabotaging the Oslo Accords while Prime Minister from 1996-1999.: He recalled how he conditioned his signing of the 1997 Hebron agreement on American consent that there be no withdrawals from "specified military locations," and insisted he choose those same locations, such as the whole of the Jordan Valley, for example. "Why is that important? Because from that moment on I stopped the Oslo Accords," he boasts."

Bibi also states that the U.S. is "easily moved to the right direction" and calls high levels of popular American support for Israel "absurd"; also noting that his attacks on the Palestinians were not defensive, but meant to coerce them to agree to his demands.

#8 | Posted by censored at 2014-07-29 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

A slow genocide, as opposed to the quicker one the Nazis practiced.

There is nothing accidental about it.

Nothing what so ever.

#9 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-29 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sully, the article is one thing. The editorial/moderator decisions of those in charge of the site are something else. It is NOT in any way improper to comment on the latter. As to the former, I think I have posted my thoughts on this topic on just about every thread on the board. At this point it is all getting repetitive. Which makes me wonder about the site editors choice of front page articles in this instance. Heck, I just post an actual intelligence op-ed analysis of the situation on the back page.

#10 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is NOT in any way improper to comment on the latter."

I didn't call it improper. You're entitled to not like his choices. I'm just saying that your pointing out that you don't like it isn't necessarily relevant to him or anyone else.

"As to the former, I think I have posted my thoughts on this topic on just about every thread on the board. At this point it is all getting repetitive. Which makes me wonder about the site editors choice of front page articles in this instance."

If the same thoughts have been posted before then that's another story. From your first comment I took it that you're saying that multiple articles that you consider "anti-Israel" have been posted. But I didn't get from that they are all forwarding the same ideas.

I find it hard to disagree with the sentiments being posted in this article considering that I would have to directly ignore Netanyahu's own words in order to do so.

#11 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-29 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

At this point it is all getting repetitive.
#10 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 02:49 PM | Reply |

Yeah, killing one Palestinian child per hour is really old hat. The Israelis should come up with more entertaining patterns of infanticide. Maybe you can start a facebook page like these fine folks.

#12 | Posted by censored at 2014-07-29 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mod - aren't you a defense attorney?

If so, can you explain why you condone concentrating indigenous people into one area and systematically killing them?

#13 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-29 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

when one group in a society designates itself as a "chosen people", and has a 1000+ year literary history defining and fleshing out the meaning of the phrase, there are bound to be those from said group that don't think twice of wiping another group off the face of the earth-- whether it takes 4 years, 40 years or 400 years.

whether it is killing them, maiming them, crippling them, imprisoning them, oppressing them, blockading them, or even denying their existence (much like a holocaust denier denies the holocaust), genocide is genocide. zionism has done such to the palestinian natives and their ancestors over the past 80+ years.

hamas? terrorist group? yes-- because it is nothing more than an ugly mirror image of another terrorist group-- a youthful demon spawn-- a doppelganger of the zionist ideology. remove zionism, and hamas hasn't a centimeter of ground to stand on, as as such, it too disappears.

#14 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-29 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can see Rcade is promoting lots of anti-Israel articles to the front page.

The news reflects Israel's actions and the way they are being received by commentators all over the world.

It's ironic you describe Sullivan's thoughts as "anti-Israel," since there's nothing more anti-Israel than the course Netanyahu is pursuing.

#15 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There is no country, no ethnic group and no religion that should be above criticism, when most of the world sees their actions as indiscriminately killing innocent people and children. It is only because they want to steal their land, and mostly because the indigenous people do not have the military means to fight back.

The only reason they have any influence at all in the world is because they own the American political whores and media, which means they own America, but only temporarily. Americans are waking up to being used and plundered by outside interests, while our vets and own country have insufficient funding.

Palestine/Israel should be one democratic country for all, and not just one country with special rights for a special few unless we create special countries for all.

#16 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-29 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

We can't control what happens in Israel or Gaza or the West Bank. We can control the money we give to people in those places. We should focus on deciding if we should continue giving them money. I say no.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-29 07:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes the American empire can definitely control Israel. Stop funding it, and Israel will have to make peace with its neighbors or it won't be able to feed its population.

Then there would be peace.

It would also help if the American empire stopped creating the problem by directly funding Hamas as opposed to the legitimate Palestinian authority.
Hamas gains in elections precisely because of American payments. Same as the American backed military coup in Egypt.

The sick truth is that despite propaganda to the contrary, the American empire actively protects its empire using every tool that the Romans used and then some. i.e. fascism.

#18 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-29 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier

#19 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-29 08:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

The news reflects Israel's actions and the way they are being received by commentators I agree with from all over the world.

FTFY....

It's ironic you describe Sullivan's thoughts as "anti-Israel," since there's nothing more anti-Israel than the course Netanyahu is pursuing.

That is an opinion, according to a majority of Israelis they would differ with that opinion.

#20 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-29 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

We can't control what happens in Israel or Gaza or the West Bank. We can control the money we give to people in those places. We should focus on deciding if we should continue giving them money. I say no.

#17 | POSTED BY DANNI

I understand that frustration, but our dollars kept Israel and Egypt from going to war.

Today Israel and Egypt are at peace, and are at wits end with Hamas.... go figure.... its due to our involvement.

#21 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-29 08:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Today Israel and Egypt are at peace, and are at wits end with Hamas.... go figure.... its due to our involvement."

No, Israel and the military dictatorship which rules Egypt with an iron fist are at peace and yes.....its due to our involvement. I think we need to back up and take a breath, withhold payment to any nation imprisoning news reporters first and then reconsidering what are the real goals of foreign policy in the ME if any. It might be time to pack it up and just come home and ignore these crazy people. I'm not declaring that to necessarily be the case but it does seem time to reevaluate who our friends are and what we hope to achieve by spending billions and risking the lives of Americans.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-29 08:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, you are so friggin' uninformed. While the Muslim Brotherhood was in charge in Egypt they were constructing dozens of new tunnels and flooding Gaza and Hamas with all different types of weaponry. Once the military kicked out the MB, many (most?) of the tunnels shut down. And THAT is what precipitated the current crisis in Gaza prompting Hamas to make the cold calculation that provoking war with Israel would be the best way to drum up internation sympathy.

Keep in mind, when the Egyptian military started closing down the tunnels some months back, they were effectively shutting down about 20% of Gaza's economy. Think about that for a moment. Hamas was desperate. They chose a strategy of war knowing in advance that the resultant civilian casualties would drum up sympathy worldwide. And it has.

IF you can't see the direct connection between events in Egypt over the last six months and the current war in Gaza, then there you are so hopelessly uninformed that it is a waste of time trying to discuss the matter with you. Kind of like arguing with rightwingers who get their talking points about an issue from Sean Hannity.

#23 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 08:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

And THAT is what precipitated the current crisis in Gaza prompting Hamas to make the cold calculation that provoking war with Israel would be the best way to drum up internation sympathy.
#23 | Posted by moder8

Now that Hamas apparently has "international sympathy," how does that translate to any tangible benefit for Hamas, for Palestinians, for anyone? Do tell.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-29 08:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

The most annoying aspect of trying to discuss this issue on the DR is that so many of you are just so painfully uninformed, so you fall back to the kneejerk position of blaming Israel as the provocateur. That simply is not the truth. But so long as left wing media is pounding home the message that Israel = Bad, and Palestinian = Good, the message aint gonna get through to most of you.

And Rcade, shame on you. [...]

#25 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Snoofy, are you friggin' kidding me? Just look at this site. Multiply that by a million. Money and support is flooding in for Hamas from all over the world in a way we haven't seen in almost a decade. Take off your biased lenses and get real.

#26 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 08:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

That is an opinion, according to a majority of Israelis they would differ with that opinion.

I read plenty of Israeli opinions from writers who are appalled by what is being done to Gaza under Netanyahu's leadership. You should check out Haaretz. There's more criticism of Israel's actions by Israeli pundits and politicians than by American pundits and politicians. The fear of criticizing Israel here is truly astounding.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 08:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Money and support is flooding in for Hamas from all over the world in a way we haven't seen in almost a decade.
#26 | Posted by moder8

Link?

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-29 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

And Rcade, shame on you.

That's a mighty fine high horse you're riding.

I've been a supporter of Israel for a long time, but I don't like what the country has become. Until it renounces settlements and gets out of the West Bank, it shows no interest in peace.

The Israel you think you are defending doesn't exist anymore. It wants violent opposition from Palestinian militants so it can engineer a situation where can keep gobbling up land. Its officials fly into a rage at even mild criticism from the U.S. government.

No other Western country would be allowed to do to a captive population what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 08:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

And still you find nothing offensive about calling Israel "genocidal". Okay. It's your site. [...]

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-29 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Moder8 this article is ten years old but it's still relevant. thearabdailynews.com

Politically, Hamas and Israel's Likud Bloc share several common goals, each for different reasons. They both oppose the Land-for-Peace formula and object to the creation of an independent Palestinian State. Hamas seeks to establish an Islamic State in Palestine while the Likud seeks the formal expansion of Israel into the occupied West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. Likud seeks to annex the territories providing the Palestinians with administrative autonomy but not independence or sovereignty.

In contrast, the PLO and the Labor Party also share several goals and oppose the policies of Likud and Hamas. Both accepted in formal written agreements in September 1993 at the White House a peace accord that recognized Israel's right to exist and the Palestinian right to statehood.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-29 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

The thing is.

No one that's critical of Israel's actions towards the Palestinians is advocating death to Israel.

We are advocating peace in Israel.

The country is Israel. The Palestinian populous should be given an opportunity to live freely in Israel. Not be walled off and left to die.

If the Palestinians had an option other than living in fear of IDF and fear of Hamas they would gladly take it.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-29 09:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

And still you find nothing offensive about calling Israel "genocidal". Okay. It's your site.

You need to stop deflecting with BS like this. I didn't use the word genocide, and there's plenty of heated rhetoric coming from people on both sides.

#33 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

While you're taking offense at word choice, Israel is telling 400,000 Gazans to evacuate their homes:

www.juancole.com

"The Israeli military has previously said that it would treat all civilians who stay behind in areas it had deemed off-limits to be combatants. ...

"The Israeli assault has already displaced 135,000 people in the last 21 days, as more than 2,000 homes have been destroyed and the Israeli army has told tens of thousands of flee their homes."

The actions Israel is taking in this war are monstrous. Do you even care that 400,000 people must either leave their homes or face the prospect of being blown up in them? It's not like Gaza has room for 400,000 people in shelters. I'd be surprised if it has any space in shelters left at all.

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 09:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Some may claim the Nazis were not genocidal of the Jews, and some may claim that Israel is not genocidal of the Palestinians.....but claiming something doesn't make it so, when the rest of the world sees it much differently.

The only thing Israel has in 2014 separating it from full fledged pariah-hood is having enough USA elected representatives more concerned about their jobs and Israel than the USA. Most of the world does not really view Israel the same way that US media presents them to US citizens. Americans pre-internet and without availability of candid opinions were once totally naive and clueless.

Israel is no more special than the Palestinians.

#35 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-29 09:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Back in 2004....................
"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process," Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's senior adviser Dov Weisglass has told Haaretz.
"And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda. And all this with authority and permission. All with a presidential blessing and the ratification of both houses of Congress."

"The disengagement is actually formaldehyde," he said. "It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."

Asked why the disengagement plan had been hatched, Weisglass replied: "Because in the fall of 2003 we understood that everything was stuck. And although by the way the Americans read the situation, the blame fell on the Palestinians, not on us, Arik [Sharon] grasped that this state of affairs could not last, that they wouldn't leave us alone, wouldn't get off our case. Time was not on our side. There was international erosion, internal erosion. Domestically, in the meantime, everything was collapsing. The economy was stagnant, and the Geneva Initiative had gained broad support. And then we were hit with the letters of officers and letters of pilots and letters of commandos [refusing to serve in the territories]. These were not weird kids with green ponytails and a ring in their nose with a strong odor of grass. These were people like Spector's group [Yiftah Spector, a renowned Air Force pilot who signed the pilot's letter]. Really our finest young people."

Weisglass does not deny that the main achievement of the Gaza plan is the freezing of the peace process in a "legitimate manner."

"That is exactly what happened," he said. "You know, the term `peace process' is a bundle of concepts and commitments. The peace process is the establishment of a Palestinian state with all the security risks that entails. The peace process is the evacuation of settlements, it's the return of refugees, it's the partition of Jerusalem. And all that has now been frozen…. what I effectively agreed to with the Americans was that part of the settlements would not be dealt with at all, and the rest will not be dealt with until the Palestinians turn into Finns. That is the significance of what we did."
Don't forget, they love Palestinian children more than Hamas does............

#38 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-30 02:44 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-29 09:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

What is sad is that when some of these 400,000 people are killed, there will be people saying "Well Israel warned them first!".

The same type of people who fall for Cliven Bundy's faux anti-government schtick will somehow see no problem with a government telling people who it doesn't even represent that they must leave their homes or die - while boxing them in so they literally have nowhere else to go even if they were willing to comply with the illegitimate order.

#39 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-30 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

I keep hearing this meme about tunnels. Funny thing about tunnels, they can be flooded or sealed. From both ends!

But I guess stomping around a concentration camp and killing a lot of people is more,

More,

How can I say this?

Esua-like...

#40 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-30 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Never again!".....to us anyway.

#41 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-30 08:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This is a very odd situation. In November 2010, an Israeli organisation called the 'Reut Institute' produced a study entitled 'Building a Political Firewall against the Assault on Israel's Legitimacy: London as a Case Study.'

One can immediately see how different the U.K. is from the U.S. â€" nobody would take New York or Washington DC as a 'case study' of a supposed 'assault on Israel's legitimacy.'

(See www.reut-institute.org .)

The Reut Institute study is premised on the belief in some kind of co-ordinated assault on Israel's 'right to exist'. As its authors put it:

'This assault is executed by two forces acting in parallel and with cooperation. The first is the Resistance Network, led by Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah, that rejects Israel's right to exist based on Arab and Islamist nationalist-religious ideology. The second is the Delegitimization Network, which is primarily concentrated in a few major cities such as London, Brussels, and the San Francisco Bay Area, and denies Israel's right of existence based on political, philosophical, or historical arguments.'

Very visibly, the fear is that, as it were, the rot might spread â€" that if it cannot be contained in London, it might eventually, in the United States, spread beyond the 'San Francisco Bay Area', and eventually contaminate all kinds of other places â€" perhaps, who knows, Washington DC.

The study then goes on to devote a great deal of attention to an organisation called the 'Palestine Solidarity Campaign.'

This is completely delusional. Left to itself, the PSC might do a slightly better job of 'delegitimising' Israel than Hamas could do of fighting the IDF in a pitched battle â€" but not much better.

In any case, the whole intellectual framework implied in the term 'delegitimisation' is jerry-built.

People in London do not, in general, go on around worrying about metaphysical questions such as that of whether Israel has a 'right to exist'.

What is actually the case is that a very marked rise in anti-Muslim feeling has developed together with a growing revulsion from the Israelis.

Part of this is a moral revulsion. But also involved are 1. a realisation that the whole notion that they were seriously interested in a two-state solution was a simply wrong -- they were playing us for suckers, 2. the blunt fact that Israel's fellow-travellers in the United States have involved us in catastrophic wars, and intend to go on trying to repeat the performance, given half the chance (recently wrt Ukraine) and 3. its having dawned on people that, in the end, the Israeli Zionists regard all 'goyim' as essentially identical, and think that gentiles in Britain, like those in Germany, harbour a deep underlying compulsion to murder Jews."

#42 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-31 09:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

AndreaM,
I admire your tenacity on the issue but more selective hooey.
It was this murder on May 14, 2014 that set off whoever (let's call them Scunthorpe shall we ?)kidnapped those three Israeli kids. CNN caught the whole incident on camera by accident. The IDF claimed that the soldiers were firing blanks, but extra footage captured the soldiers loading red painted magazines, which Israelis universally accepted as designated for live rounds.
Palestinian youths shot dead on camera
www.YouTube.com/watch?
v=gy4WXsp34IU

#43 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-31 10:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Scum=Scunthorpe.

#44 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-31 10:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Advertisement

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2014 World Readable

 

Advertisement

Drudge Retort