Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, July 28, 2014

Mohammed Suliman, World Post: The people in Gaza are living through yet another Israeli assault, the third such assault in six years, with nowhere to flee. As missiles hit civilian houses, entire families are obliterated. ... "We don't target civilians," Israel tells us. "You're simply lying" should be a sane person's response to these, at best, baseless claims. Israel does target civilians with its sophisticated high-precision weapons, hence the over 1,000 deaths in Gaza so far, 80 percent of whom are civilians, according to human rights groups.

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rcade

 

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We're tired of war. I, for one, have had enough of bloodshed, death and destruction. But I also can no longer tolerate the return to a deeply unjust status quo. I can no longer agree to live in this open-air prison. We can no longer tolerate to be treated as sub-humans, deprived of our most basic human rights. We are trapped here, trapped between two deaths: death by Israeli bombs and missiles, and death by Israel's blockade of Gaza.

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As you wish.

-------------Israel

#1 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-07-28 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wish that Egypt would open their border to those who want to leave.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Leave.... Emigrate to the US, Jordan, or another Arab state.
www.jpost.com

I bet prisoners would like to emigrate....

Or you could vote for Fatah, but be prepared for being dropped from a building.

#3 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-28 06:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh hell no we've got enough people fleeing violence as it is and Jordan has enough refugees as it is.

Let Egypt have every Muslim from the part of Palestine that borders their land who wants to leave it and never return.

#4 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

On second thought I'd like to help them travel to Saudi Arabia.

#5 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why does Hamas launch rockets from residential communities?

#6 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-07-28 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Why does Hamas launch rockets from residential communities?"

Because they can't always find daycare centers to launch from?

#7 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I hear there's a lot of room in Afghanistan.

#8 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-07-28 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Why does Hamas launch rockets from residential communities?"

Because the hospitals are filled?

#9 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-07-28 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Sounds like a suicide note. Did he kill himself?

#10 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2014-07-28 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wish that Egypt would open their border to those who want to leave.
#2 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-07-28 06:49 PM | FLAG:

Not without Israel's permission.

The borders were closed by Israel. Not Egypt.

Hence the analogy of an open air prison.

Gaza is a prison. The Palestinians can't do anything without Israel's permission.

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-28 07:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The borders were closed by Israel. Not Egypt."

You sure?

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 07:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Leave.... Emigrate to the US, Jordan, or another Arab state.

Your solution for the Palestinians is to leave their own land? Do you realize how Nazi that sounds?

#13 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 07:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I agree that Gaza is the pits for those forced to live there.

The world wishes that Israel would open their country and borders to those in Gaza and elsewhere who would expand and improve the Isreali culture, just as the predominantly liberal pols and media in the US like the "you know whats" like Cellar, in his 1965 Immigration Act claim needs done to the USA, which is the need to change our culture from US Anglo to world Hispanic and others. One country, multiple cultures.

Americans didn't vote for our cultural change, as it was forced down our throats by liberal Democrats and greedy bankers and Republicans. The cultural change needs forced down Israel's throat too by the same interests. Israel's aggression and desire to take land represents a flash point and an economic burden to the world that destroys societies.

#14 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-28 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Americans didn't vote for our cultural change ...

America has been defined by waves of immigrants going back for more than a century.

#15 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 07:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Your solution for the Palestinians is to leave their own land? Do you realize how Nazi that sounds?
#13 | Posted by rcade

Why'd you have to go Godwin? Trail of Tears is more like it anyway. The Nazis made it so the Jews couldn't leave... which is a what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza. I guess that means Egypt is playing the part of Roosevelt denying entry to the Gazan version of the MS St. Louis.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-28 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

If Egypt or any other Islamic nation chose to allow in massive numbers of Palestinians, there is nothing Israel could do about it. So to blame Israel for closing the Egyptian border to those Palestinians who wish to leave is more than a little dishonest. Palestinians can't go to Egypt because Egypt will not allow them.

Which brings up another oft overlooked aspect of this tragedy. Many Islamic nations find it in their political and social best interests to mantain the awful status quo in Gaza because it allows them to continually use Israel as a scapegoat and rallying point for their own domestic problems.

#17 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-28 07:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

The reason every honest person uses the term "comprehensive" peace plan is because Israel on it's own does not have the power to end the conflict. The Palestinians must be willing partners. That means reining in Hamas. It also means Egypt and other ME nations being willing to play an actual constructive role in the process instead of just constantly throwing gas on the fire.

#18 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-28 08:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

... because Israel on it's own does not have the power to end the conflict.

Israel has the power to stop approving new settlements and to roll back the ones it allowed in the past several decades. Until it does, any talk about the Palestinians being "willing partners" to peace is a sick joke.

#19 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I absolutely agree that Israel has the power to prevent new settlements. And the Palestinians have the absolute power to stop firing hundreds of rockets into Israel. Until the Palestinians are willing to do that, any talk about Palestinians being "willing partners" to peace is a joke.

#20 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-28 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Trying to find equivalence here dodges the reality that one group has been subjugating the other for decades, taking its land and walling it off in miserable circumstances. So of course there's armed radical opposition to that. Americans took up arms and fought for independence after suffering far less than the Palestinians have endured.

#21 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 08:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Equivalence? I have a hard time with your underlying assumption/position that Israel somehow has acted in bad faith from the very start. I believe the opposite is true. I believe Israel genuinely was working in good faith. At some point the realization sets in that the other side is not going to stop coming at you no matter what you do. I genuinely blame the Palestinians for the situation. I get the feeling that after 65 years the people of Israel have simply thrown up their hands, and (unfortunately) stopped really caring about how Palestinians feel because no matter what Israel does the Palestinians will continue to reject them and espouse their total destruction.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-28 08:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Blaming the Palestinians for this is like blaming Native Americans for smallpox.

#23 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-28 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Hamas people put their rockets and their tunnel entrances in civilian areas. They want women and children to be killed for PR purposes or, at least it seems so. A video is making the rounds of a Gazan Hamas official even speaking about such tactics. They are working a scam on the media and the world. If the Arabs disarmed there would be peace. If the Israelis disarmed, Israel as a Jewish state would be no more and no Israelis would be alive.

#24 | Posted by Donald at 2014-07-28 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ethinic cleansing is a strange animal. When it occurred during the Great War we were told "never again."

Now those who claimed "never again" are the perpetrator.

Perpetrators always justify their war crimes.

#25 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-28 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

I believe Israel genuinely was working in good faith

Israel has acted in bad faith by continuously building new settlements in Palestinian land while claiming it is seeking peace. If you don't see that, you're willfully blind.

You don't know what the Palestinians would do if they had their own state where they could live freely and were not trapped in misery under Israel's thumb. You don't know what it would be like if Israel wasn't taking over the land of a future Palestine one neighborhood at a time.

The premise Israel is hated "no matter what" ignores that Israel has quite obvious actions available to it that would result in it being less hated -- like ending settlements -- and it shows zero interest in taking them.

#26 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Everything Mod8 says flies in the face of the basic facts. Israel is destroying the territory, infrastructure and people that were once Palestine. Pretending it is the opposite is a bald faced lie. Israel claimed it is perfectly safe to fly to Israel and screamed bloody murder when airlines, some of which have since capitulated to Israel, cancelled flights. How can Israel claim that the Palestinians are a grave threat to their being while claiming air travel is perfectly safe, all in the same breath? Israeli fundamentalists, like Netanyahu, have always had expansionist plans and have never had good faith negotiations at the peace table. Many Jewish citizens inside Israel and the United States would agree with me, but they have been marginalized by extremists.

#27 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-28 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Hamas people put their rockets and their tunnel entrances in civilian areas.

Everything in Gaza is a civilian area. It's a densely packed area that's 17 square miles in size. (By comparison, Disney World is 40 square miles.)

Hamas is engaging in guerrilla warfare. Expecting them to do otherwise is like wishing wars were still fought by forming two lines and marching directly at each other with muskets. You are faulting them for fighting a war the way every militant group in their situation would fight it.

#28 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

With respect to Mr. Suliman. If he leaves it is another victory for Israel. If Israel kills him it is another victory for Israel. Only fighting back can change the outcome.

#29 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-28 09:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I absolutely agree that Israel has the power to prevent new settlements. And the Palestinians have the absolute power to stop firing hundreds of rockets into Israel. Until the Palestinians are willing to do that, any talk about Palestinians being "willing partners" to peace is a joke.
#20 | Posted by moder8

Why should the rockets stop first, I wonder...

And while it might be possible for Israel to prevent new settlements, that still leaves the problem of the roughly 350,000 Jewish occupiers of the West Bank. It was no easy task for Israel to remove the roughly 9,000 Jewish settlers from Gaza in 2005. There's nearly forty times as many squatters in the West Bank.

Keep in mind that roughly 200,000 Israelis have moved onto Palestinian land in the West Bank since the Oslo Accords were signed two decades ago. Any talk about Israelis being "willing partners" to peace is a long-running joke.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-28 10:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I wish that Egypt would open their border to those who want to leave.
#2 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-28 06:49 PM

But how to exodize the Israeli back into Egypt? That is obviously where they belong, right?

#31 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-28 10:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

For those that dont read any other source of info... egypt has been destroying tunnels simultaneously, tired of the m.b. connection and their b.s. as well. Get angry at them for genociding pales too.

#32 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-07-28 10:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You don't know what the Palestinians would do if they had their own state where they could live freely and were not trapped in misery under Israel's thumb. You don't know what it would be like if Israel wasn't taking over the land of a future Palestine one neighborhood at a time.

The premise Israel is hated "no matter what" ignores that Israel has quite obvious actions available to it that would result in it being less hated -- like ending settlements -- and it shows zero interest in taking them.

#26 | Posted by rcad

There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza. That was part of the big truce 9 years ago. Israel withdrew, leaving behind lots of industry and infrastructure, which Hamas demolished to make room for tunnels and hiding places for rockets.

#33 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2014-07-29 12:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Real funny red.

Fact is I don't care where any of these people started I'm interested in lives being saved.

#34 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-29 01:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

#33,I doubt much industry or infrastructure was left after the settlers left Gaza,they were EXTREMELY PISSED.The Palestinians are an educated people,not desert dwelling bug eaters.Ho chi minh wasn't an imbecile either.If industry was left they would be using it.

#35 | Posted by bruceaz at 2014-07-29 01:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Moder et al
The empirical evidence about Israeli peace initiatives does'nt seem to back you up.
The Likud Charter and the Hamas Charter are no different. Except Bibi is actually carrying it out.
The Bibi guide to Middle East Peace:
Abbas goes for a UN general assembly 'observer status' > more settlements
Abbas does not go for a UN general assembly 'observer status' > more settlements
Pursue violence to end occupation > more settlements
Pursue non-violence to end occupation > more settlements
Engage in peace talks > more settlements
Disengage from peace talks > more settlements
Sharon had to form a different party to get away from this settler colonization policy (though Kadima and Labour are just more dishonest about their support for settlements).
UNSCR 242, Camp David 78, Madrid 91, Oslo 93, Camp David 2000, Arab Peace Plan 2002, Roadmap 2003, Anapolis 2003, Washington DC 2010.

Also,
Israel holds the only person capable of knitting together the WB and Gaza-Marwan Bargouti. He can never be freed. The last thing Bibi wants is a 'partner for peace'.

#36 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-29 02:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Americans didn't vote for our cultural change, as it was forced down our throats by liberal Democrats and greedy bankers and Republicans. The cultural change needs forced down Israel's throat too by the same interests. Israel's aggression and desire to take land represents a flash point and an economic burden to the world that destroys societies.

#14 | POSTED BY ROBSON AT 2014-07-28 07:38 PM | REPLY | FLAG:PPPFFFTTT!!!!

Love it when some anglo/euro blathers on about forced cultural change... and blaming it on "librul" democrats and generic -------------. The greedy banks is one of those rather bizarre non existents when one considers what a bank is.

The hispanic culture you are talking about are predominately the direct descendants of the Americans who have migrated up and down the Americas for thousands of years before the current batch of non Spanish speaking Euros started ramming their culture down their throats.

#37 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-07-29 07:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

All I'll say is the Palestinians really screwed themselves when they refused peace like Egypt,Jordan,and Syria back in the day. I feel for the Palestinian children but, I don't see how any country can tolerate tunnels being built leading to their country for attacks and kidnappings. I wonder even if Israel went back to the original borders if Hamas would accept Israel as a state? That's really the lynch pin in this isn't it? Based on Hamas' comments of never accepting Israel as a state tells Israel even if they give the land back they would just have to take it again.

#38 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-29 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I don't have a dog in this fight, but why don't they kick Hamas out on their ass then??

It's bad guy vs. bad guy IMHO.

#39 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2014-07-29 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Leave.... Emigrate to the US, Jordan, or another Arab state.:

I would recommend the same thing to them as indivuals. Gaza is going to be pit of misery for the forseeable future and I wouldn't tell anyone they should live there.

But since maximizing the misery in hopes that people leave on mass scale is part of Irael's strategy, let's call it what it is: Ethnic cleansing.

#40 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-29 11:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Thousands may die before this is over. If: innocent Civilians are dying...Then: Someone should send a rescue mission and get the innocent civilans out of there before Israel kills thousands more! At least can we save the children?

Oh what am I saying? Silly me. That is rediculous! Who is gonna pay for all that?

Not us that's for sure. We have a Constitution! And after all. This the Land of oh well, Nothing Can Be Done!

And...

We don't have to do anything because... In God We Trust.

They need help. Gee... I wonder what would happen if we actually helped them?

Wow

What a concept.

Plenty of money for War...so little for Peace.

#41 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-29 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Get yourself a ticket Donner. Donner wants boots on the ground. That would work great Einstein. Oh. You weren't really being serious? Just a snarky little partisan I guess.

#42 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-29 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Only solution?

Kill all the Palestinians until the only few remaining have absolutely lost all hope.

After a few generations and a hundred years have passed by, allow the Palestinians the right to build casinos on their territory so they can bilk the Israelis.

#43 | Posted by Clownshack at 2014-07-29 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

has anyone given a thought to how inaccurate the hamas rockets are-it is like their only purpose is to get isreal to respond -if you can't kill isrealis and you people are getting slaughtered why fire rockets into isreal

#44 | Posted by lastomykind at 2014-07-29 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

America has been defined by waves of immigrants going back for more than a century.

Posted by rcade at 2014-07-28 07:43 PM | Reply

Tis how the western expansion happened Chinese immigrants. Tis where our drug laws began. Borne out of racism.

#45 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-07-29 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

The sewage works, power station, UN designated hospitals, ambulances, boys on beaches, open spaces. ...
I thought the IDF had top drawer targetting systems. Seems an awful lot of stray munitions. Could never be by design. That's what Hamas does.
You want Hamas ended ? Stop the collectivisation of punishment. The economic contrast with the WB could not be more stark. The disengagement from Gaza bought no benefits to the Gazan people. Abettors to ethnic cleansing will boast that industries were left by Sharon. That is demonstrably false.
Btw, always remember, we love children. We hate that Hamas makes us kill theirs. The people of Gaza voted for Hamas. Gazan children are taught to hate us. We left them alone. Until they behave, we will control things. It's their fault. We want peace.

#46 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-29 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

allow the Palestinians the right to build casinos on their territory so they can bilk the Israelis.

#43 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2014-07-29 02:39 PM | FLAG:

All you'll get is a bunch of Israelis claiming to be 4% ethnic Palestinian and opening the casinos themselves.

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-29 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Get yourself a ticket Donner. Donner wants boots on the ground."

Ships in the sea, planes in the air. Whatever. How about Berlin style airdrops!

Nevermind. You are so right Dalton.

Too bad. It's so sad.

But, Nothing Can be Done.

#48 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-29 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's an open air prison of their own making. They could have had pave in the beginning, but chose war. They could have had peace after the first war, but instead, chose war. Tinge and again, Israel tried peace, and got dead citizens instead.

In the end, the "Palestinians" got exactly what they wanted, eternal victim status, and a state of perpetual war against Israel they have no hope of winning.

Why they can't look across at the millions of happy Muslim sincearabs living in Israel...as high ranking police officers, doctors, lawyers, etc...with great infrastructure, health care, and education....And see they are better served joining with Israel as citizens, proves how infantile they are.

Israel is tired of putting up with their ----. Can't say I blame them.

The settlements are an issue, but I can't argue to much against them. Israel is trying to expand its borders to a more defensible location than what the international agreements gave them. It wouldn't be an issue, except that they have been attacked by every one of there bordering neighbors multiple times, all the while trying to defend themselves from attacks from within at the same time.

#49 | Posted by ABH at 2014-07-29 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why does Hamas launch rockets from residential communities?

#6 | Posted by RobThomas at 2014-07-28 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Any suggestions on alternative locations? Looking at the area and not too many wide open plains.

#50 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-07-29 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then don't do it, Daniel. Unless you are prepared to sacrifice your children. Which clearly they appear to top be willing to do. Proudly.

#51 | Posted by ABH at 2014-07-29 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flag:

Then don't do it, Daniel. Unless you are prepared to sacrifice your children. Which clearly they appear to top be willing to do. Proudly.

#51 | Posted by ABH at 2014-07-29 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

They weren't and their children still died or did the deaths during the Israeli crackdown based on a lie that Hamas kidnapped the three teens already become forgotten?

You didn't care then and it's obvious you don't care now, so why not just urge Israel to march them into concentration camps? Or is the better alternative to force confrontations and then wipe them out then?

#52 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-07-29 06:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Daniel,
Don't expect an answer.
It's their parents fault.....
These senseless apologists for Bibi's political calculations in Israel (keep in mind that Bibi has to balance his options against the extremism of Avigdor Lieberman and Bennett and the other Shad nutters.
Victim status ABH ? That's why there is a Holocaust museum in virtually every Northern hemisphere capital in the world.
ABH, your country has committed to a two state solution and expended plenty of political and diplomatic capital protecting Israel. At the end of all this, the Israeli's have sabotaged the entire process (c.f. Palestine Papers) and left egg on ur faces. Why do you give this client state a free pass that clearly opposes stated US policy, at a cost of billions a year ?

#53 | Posted by tunde at 2014-07-29 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Only solution?
Kill all the Palestinians until the only few remaining have absolutely lost all hope.
After a few generations and a hundred years have passed by, allow the Palestinians the right to build casinos on their territory so they can bilk the Israelis.
#43 | Posted by Clownshack

If Israel had been formed in 1848 instead of 1948, I suspect that's how things would be today. But the western world's tolerance for ethnic cleansing never really recovered after WWII. To make matters worse, the western world doesn't look fondly on apartheid either.

Israel has the unenviable task of walking the line between modern western secular values and millenia-old religious fundamentalists who assassinate Israeli leaders with modern western secular values.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-30 12:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

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