Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, July 25, 2014

In the days since Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine, Russian state-owned media outlets have produced alternative explanations for what happened. While the Western world blames Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine, Russian media, including private outlets, have explored other possibilities -- from the totally outrageous to the outwardly plausible. In all their scenarios, the Ukrainian government is responsible.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

And the ----- on the right will take this festering ball and run with it.

.

#1 | Posted by Dave at 2014-07-25 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

All the stories of mishandling of the bodies, or even who shot down flight MH17 are unsubstantiated and repeated ad nausea in the Western Media. But the US Navy commander that shot down an Iranian passenger plane in 1988 was given a medal and that story was barely covered. The vilification of Russia actually began during the Sochi Olympics, a success that was roundly condemned in US media.

#2 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-25 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Putin should just stop the charade and rename the country the USSR. It would be a lot more honest and reflective of that nation's current mindset.

#3 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-25 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

And american media spread crackpot saddam hussein claims before the invasion.

Let's not act like we're much better.

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-07-25 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sanctions should be imposed on Kiev, from which the military violence originates. Instead, Kiev is receiving financial and military support, and sanctions are placed on Russia which is not militarily involved in the situation.

When the outbreak of violence against the former Russian provinces began, the Russian Duma voted Putin the power to intervene militarily. Instead of using this power, Putin requested that the Duma rescind the power, which the Duma did. Putin preferred to deal with the problem diplomatically in a reasonable and unprovocative manner.

Putin has received neither respect nor appreciation for encouraging a non-violent resolution of the unfortunate Ukrainian situation created by Washington's coup against a democratically elected government that was only months away from a chance to elect a different government.
The sanctions that Washington has applied and that Washington is pressuring its European puppets to join send the wrong information to Kiev. It tells Kiev that the West approves and encourages Kiev's determination to resolve its differences with the former Russian provinces with violence rather than with negotiation.

This means war will continue, and that is clearly Washington's intent. The latest reports are that US military advisors will soon be in Ukraine to aid the conquest of the former Russian provinces that are in revolt.

Washington has an agenda. Washington has put in place a police state to suppress its own population, and Washington believes that history has conveyed the right to Washington to exercise hegemony over the world. Last year President Obama declared to the world that he sincerely believes that America is the exceptional nation on whose leadership the world depends.

In other words, all other countries and peoples are unexceptional. Their voices are unimportant. Anything, whether an idea or a country, that is in the way of Washington is in the way of History's Purpose and must be run over.

In the late 18th and early 19th centuries Europe faced the determination of the French Revolution to impose Liberty, Equality, Fraternity upon Europe. Today Washington's ambition is larger. The ambition is to impose Washington's hegemony on the entire world. Unless Russia and China submit, this means war. (Paul Craig Roberts)

#5 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-25 12:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

addition by subtraction-- russian media appears a viable alternative only because the american media took such a massive hit to its integrity during the run up to the invasion of iraq and the whole war on terror fiasco...

and there isn't any evidence that it is going to regain that integrity anytime soon...

#6 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-25 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Putin has received neither respect nor appreciation for encouraging a non-violent resolution of the unfortunate Ukrainian situation created by Washington's coup against a democratically elected government that was only months away from a chance to elect a different government."

What a bunch of Russian propaganda. Absolutely garbage. Disgusting.
Before the election perhaps there was a slight bit of truth that the President was not elected though he was selected by the Parliament but today they have a democratically elected President. Russians are fighting inside Ukraine, killing Ukrainians in their attempt to take the eastern portion of the country away and make it part of Russia. The "Separatists" are mostly a bunch of Russian thugs, their "Defense Minister" is a "former" member of the Russian Intelligence Service (KGB).

#7 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-25 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What a bunch of Russian propaganda. Absolutely garbage. Disgusting."

but it is made somewhat palatable by the absolute sham our mainstream media has become. we have no one to blame but ourselves. a slong as we do not hold our former leaders to account for the iraqi invasion and the subsequent crap that has been coming out of our news outlets ever since.

and putin knows this. but still, we in america learn our lessons hard...

...if we learn them at all.

#8 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-25 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"and putin knows this. but still, we in america learn our lessons hard..."

If anything, Putin has learned how the news media can be used to fool enough of his people to give him a free hand to do anything he wants. He's not fooling all Russians any more than Fox News fools all Americans.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-25 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

I submit that Israel and the United States are the initiators of multiple acts of aggression (wars). All other details come down to he said she said.......

#10 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-25 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I submit that Israel and the United States are the initiators of multiple acts of aggression (wars). All other details come down to he said she said......."

And Russia hasn't been involved in any wars? In Georgia?, In Ukraine right now? And what does Israel have to do with Ukraine anyway?

#11 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-25 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Putin has learned how the news media can be used to fool enough of his people to give him a free hand to do anything he wants. " - Danni

The more you deflect the more its clear Obama is at fault here.

I didn't give him a free hand, nothing that anyone that agrees with him has given him a "free hand".

Obama "reset" the relations..... to give them a "free hand"
Obama said, wait until after the election..... when Obama can give him a "free hand".

Obama has given Putin signals, and signs that Putin can act as he pleases.

Kto Kovo
www.frontpagemag.com

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-25 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is no difference between Russia and Ukraine.
None.
:)

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

"And Russia hasn't been involved in any wars? In Georgia?, In Ukraine right now? And what does Israel have to do with Ukraine anyway?"

Get with the program Danni. Only The West and NATO instigate wars and cause all the problems in the world, everyone else are innocent victims defending themselves against Western Aggression. It's okay for countries like Russia and China to crack down and slaughter hundreds if not thousands of insurgents in their countries, but because the capital of Ukraine isn't anti-West they don't have the same right to defend their territory against reckless armed militia groups and violent secessionists.

#14 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-25 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

'Obama "reset" the relations..... to give them a "free hand"
Obama said, wait until after the election..... when Obama can give him a "free hand".
Obama has given Putin signals, and signs that Putin can act as he pleases.'

Some days you actually post intelligent stuff on this site. Today's not one of those days.

#15 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-25 01:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

The point isn't that the USA invented Imperialism. The point is that the USA pretends it is not engaged in it. It claims that we only intervene for humanitarian, Democratic and other reasons such as freedom. This is BS. We are deeply engaged in using power to gain every advantage it provides. What is unique about the USA is how decent yuet clueless its population is. Whenever the general population becomes aware of the brutality which our Government exports, it puts stop to it. But unlike the Russians and Chinese, who have no say whatsoever, US citizens are completely clueless as to what is going on almost all the time.

#16 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-25 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"The point isn't that the USA invented Imperialism. The point is that the USA pretends it is not engaged in it." It claims that we only intervene for humanitarian, Democratic and other reasons such as freedom. This is BS.

I thought your point was "the military violence originates [from Kiev/the West]", which in this case is BS.

#17 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-25 06:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I no longer see the Christian Science Monitor as a respected media outlet. The first sign of that is that the CSM doesn't have the guts to allow its readers to comment on what they publish unless they bow to FB or Zuckerberg. I'm not even sure allegiance to FB gets an ability to comment on their rag.

Gannett etc are leading hacks on restricting/controlling public viewing audiences and see a need to defend against comments from critical thinking Americans who will cut down poor op-eds and reporting to shreds.

#18 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-25 08:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

The same DC political elite that sent our jobs to China are already pounding the drums that America needs to export and liquify its natural gas to Europe to put Russia in its place.

Huh? That means the cheap self sufficient energy in the USA that we were all brainwashed to believe was worthy of the destruction of our forests, wells and underground water wasn't intended as claimed to make us energy independent and help Americans, but instead to give oil and drilling companies, and as always Wall St. more profits.

If Americans buy the claim that we need to throw away our opportunity to restore American manufacturing with cheap gas, so as to save Europe after the elected Ukrainian President was tossed out by phony snipers and rebels, we all need a brain transplant.

The scheme has been about bringing our gas to Europe and vilifying Russia. The plane crash could have been a mistake on either side, or intended as icing on the cake and something more ominous. There is no credible proof.

#19 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-25 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If Americans buy the claim that we need to throw away our opportunity to restore American manufacturing with cheap gas, so as to save Europe after the elected Ukrainian President was tossed out by phony snipers and rebels, we all need a brain transplant."

Completely a false dichotomy. NO one has proposed that we replace American manufacturing with American gas production through fracking but many have recommended, and it will probably happen, that Ukraine exploit their own fracking opportunity and eliminate their dependence on Russia for natural gas.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-25 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nothing changes the fact that the USA used a bunch of NGOs to destabilize Ukraine. That's the same reason Haiti remains an impoverished slave State. Its the same reason Palestine is in the same shape. Its the same reason everyone South of our Border is in such a sad state. Israel couldn't do it without our relentless support.

#21 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-25 11:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stupid pink bear thinks it can piss on our leg and tell us it's raining.

#22 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-25 11:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nothing changes the fact that the USA used a bunch of NGOs to destabilize Ukraine.

The USA probably used NGOs to be subversive and try to influence Ukrainians to support its interests, but there's no evidence they intended to destabilize Ukraine and cause a civil war even if they couldn't get their way. You can argue the US has done that in other countries, but that doesn't justify Russia doing it in Ukraine. If you're not willing to call Russia out for what they're doing, you've lost the right to criticize the US for things they've done there or anywhere else.

#23 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-25 11:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Considering how dangerous Putin is would keeping his influence out of the Ukraine be a bad thing?

#24 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-25 11:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

George Oswell it best,

War is Peace

Ignorance is Strength

Freedom is Slavery

Despite all the posturing and fear mongering on both sides, Putin is no more than a tyrant, and a criminal since he was commissioned as an officer in the KGB. All the rest is a manufactured cult of personality.

#25 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-07-26 05:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Gorbachev was a good guy and Reagan was lucky to have him to negotiate with. Most of the WARSAW countries hate the Russians. All the unwritten promises that were made were broken by Clinton, BushII and Obama. Thus US missiles are lined up in Poland against Russia. The Russian people hate Gorbachev now because they have suffered from all the changes and broken promises (mostly the surrender of territory). What we are doing to Russia is no different than Russia putting missiles in Cuba.

Ex-KGB chief is or was an evil scoundrel, but the same could be said of BushI (head of CIA). Both these institutions put the interests of the State and themselves above the rights of individuals domestic or foreign. They have no respect for the Constitution or Bill of Rights and operate outside all laws.

#26 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-26 09:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The Russian people hate Gorbachev now because they have suffered from all the changes and broken promises (mostly the surrender of territory). What we are doing to Russia is no different than Russia putting missiles in Cuba."

Russia proved the necessity of having those missiles placed when they started invading countries like Ukraine and Georgia. I don't disagree with you about Bush 1 being just as evil as Putin though but that is still no excuse to invade other nations. No agreement made between Russia, Great Britain and the U.S. in 1992? should be considered inviolable by Ukrainians who want their nation to move closer to the EU, they have a right as a sovereign nation to decide that for themselves and they have. Russia, with its economy based solely on oil and gas offers them no future and they aren't satisfied with that because they can look at Poland and see economic growth three times larger than their own. Putin's real fear is that Russians too will figure that out.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-26 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bottom line both eastern and western media are propaganda arms of their governments and we the people do not have the information to make an informed opinion on this issue.

If "killing Ukrainians in their attempt to take the eastern portion of the country away and make it part of Russia. The "Separatists" are mostly a bunch of Russian thugs" is really such an issue why are there thousands of selfies floating around with Russian and Separatists troops posing with smiling Ukrainians.

These are not an oppressed people held under the gun by dead eyed soldiers but smiling people posing with soldiers in goofy poses. We only have the parts of the story that it is beneficial for the US and Russian governments to give us.

I don't claim either side is right I claim I won't get into he said she said on an issue where I am only getting highly colored pieces of news. The world is not black and white Putin is not pure evil and Obama is not the messiah vice-versa Obama is not pure evil and Putin is no messiah.

#28 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-07-26 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bottom line both eastern and western media are propaganda arms of their governments and we the people do not have the information to make an informed opinion on this issue.

Agreed completely with the first half of this statement, and only to an extent with the second half. Both the eastern and western powers have done ------ things around the world, and in the case of Ukraine both sides were doing subversion and meddling in that country's internal affairs to influence things in favor of their own interests. Russia took it to a whole different level when they openly invaded and annexed an entire province to "protect their interests". This type of behavior is unacceptable no matter who does it, east or west, and that action alone gives us enough information to make an informed opinion on Russia's intentions toward Ukraine.

#29 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-26 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

This type of behavior is unacceptable no matter who does it, east or west, and that action alone gives us enough information to make an informed opinion on Russia's intentions toward Ukraine.

Unless of course the Crimean's want to be annexed and from what I can tell at least some do. That is where we lack even the information to say that the most obviously wrong thing about the whole mess is wrong.

#30 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-07-26 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Crimeans voted to stay with Ukraine and not join Russia again after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991. We know the recent "referendum" wasn't done in an open and democratic way that might give us accurate information about what a majority of Crimeans actually wanted, but it was pushed through quickly after a sudden military occupation that was done to protect the invading country's interests.

#31 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-26 11:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

I agree the recent referendum is meaningless but so is one from 23 years ago. Times change Crimeans may have loved the idea of getting out from under the Russian thumb 23 years ago when it was new but then realized that being part of Ukraine wasn't much better after 23 years.

We simply do not know. We know there is a significant portion that would be happy to be Russian again but not if it is a real majority.

#32 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-07-26 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

We simply do not know.

Right, we don't know what most Crimeans want, but that's irrelevant to the fact we know Russia annexed part of another country without a process that revealed that information.

Even if a majority of people in a certain region want to be annexed by a different territory, there has to be a due process followed. It never justifies annexation under military force.

#33 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-26 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Even more strange Russia and the rebels have the capability to shoot 70,000 plus feet up in the air and all the chem trail planes are from NATO countries and NOBODY SHOOTS THEM DOWN not in Africa or the Middle East Either seems to me it's one big -------- like ass blasters! It's all a ------- Joke! Israel signed onto the European free trade pact that involves all of the African and Middle Eastern countries you would think a people who suffered from genocide would not have signed a pact that is causing and encouraging genocide! Uk and France Led the charge shame about all the fried frogs huh? Collateral damage goes hand and hand with genocide!

#34 | Posted by Anthrax at 2014-07-26 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Ukraine is about half and half western leaning Ukrainians and Russian leaning Russians. Those differences did not matter until we stuck our noses in their business. The USA incited riots in the Ukraine, where protestors were paid $100/day. Its similar to mess we made in Iraq where Christians, Sunnis and Shias lived side by side until we stuck our noses in their business.

#35 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-26 11:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

You make them (Ukraine) sound like the Uncontacted Tribe, Nutcase. You're also giving Russia a pass for doing the same type of meddling, as well as taking it beyond the next level.

#36 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-26 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Russia proved the necessity of having those missiles placed when they started invading countries like Ukraine and Georgia".

Total nonsense.

Russia repelled a US sanctioned aggression against South Ossetia and subsequent shelling the capital city Tskhinvali by Georgia. Foolish Georgia was quickly stomped by the Russians for this. To claim Russia invaded is a lie. Similarly, Russia is simply reacting to US intervention in the Ukraine. I doubt Europe will go along with US plans to send what would amount to 5000 liquid natural gas boat shipments a year to make up for piped natural gas from Russia.

#37 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-26 11:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

So in other words it's okay for Russia to crack down hardly on secessionists and insurgents without consequence, but its neighbours don't have that right and deserve to be "stomped down" if they try to do the same thing Russia does inside its own borders.

#38 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-07-27 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

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